In isolation, last night wasn't a terrible loss. We hung with a solid team, had road refs, and some uncharacteristically cold shooting.
In many ways its hard to put this loss on Wojo. And yet, this was a "marginal case" game that is some emblematic of his tenure. Cronin makes some slight D adjustments, shuts DJ down, Wojo has a half-strength counter "play downhill" and when that doesn't work reverts to his 1000 yard stare. As Brew or Rocky put it in another thread- he left a few bullets in the gun.
I'm not saying we *should* have won this game, but we *could* have won this game, and didn't. And that happens 1 or 2 times more.a year under Wojo than the games we *should* have lost, but didn't.
The net result is a marginal game or two, every year, that *could* have been wins with some slightly better coaching/execution. Usually against a similarly situated high major or conference foe. Add 1 or 2 of those wins to the record every year and Wojos tenure looks remarkably different in terms on NCAA appearances and seeds or conference standings.
Add those wins and Wojos overall grade goes from "C+" to "B" (or C to B- or wherever your grade scale starts)
But the point is he hasn't won those games. Even if there are idiosyncratic reasons why he's lost any given game, he systematically is net "-1 or -2" in toss-up games each season. And there is.no evidence that's going to.change.
I know there's nothing that is going to be done about that any time soon but this level.of mediocrity is just so damn frustrating.
There's nothing here I can disagree with. There's always a couple where we can look back and say "that cost us a couple seed lines" or "that's why we went to the NIT" and all you can do is shrug.
If the shooting doesn't go cold, if Campbell doesn't smother DJ down the stretch, if the refs are a little more generous, lots of what ifs. This feels emblematic of Wojo. Good enough to compete, not good enough to get the job done, not bad enough to fire.
I still don't get why Lewis didn't go back out. I realize the refs were giving him a short leash, but he still had 7 points & 4 boards (3 offensive) in the 12 minutes he did play. If he could play 3-4 possessions, it might've turned the tide.
Good recruiter, runs a clean program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's just not gonna happen.
Decent guy, good recruiter, avoids controversy in the program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's not gonna happen.
We're like Stealer's Wheel - stuck in the middle.
How many years in a row can turnovers be such an issue, you would think the staff would start with making ball security a main bullet point!
I wish Wojo would ask DJ to stop dribbling the ball off of his own feet. Maybe we should practice dribbling along with free throws.
Agree, we are the bucks of the 2000's fighting for that 8 seed, knowing there's no chance at greatness, if not one thing it's another. The optimist in me sees some potential for this year still, the super optimist sees that there's no one on the roster who's in Givony's top 100 NBA prospects and sees next year as a top 20 team with the underclassman back. The pessimist just sees average guard play and young talented bigs, but still young. Next year you lose 3 starters and need to find high level production from the 2 wing spots, so another long road.
I like a more defensive identity that have this year, but you shouldn't be in year 7 as a coach without an identity.
It's okay though. I understand why they haven't done anything with Wojo and probably won't again this year. It sucks a bit, but they beat Wisconsin.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 12, 2020, 07:02:15 AM
Good recruiter, runs a clean program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's just not gonna happen.
Decent guy, good recruiter, avoids controversy in the program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's not gonna happen.
We're like Stealer's Wheel - stuck in the middle.
Yup and many on this board are very comfortable with complacent mediocrity
Quote from: MattyWarrior on December 12, 2020, 10:12:07 AM
How many years in a row can turnovers be such an issue, you would think the staff would start with making ball security a main bullet point!
Like popping balloons in practice every time there is a turnover. He claims to address/focus on it and yet it has plagued his squads most years of his tenure. I'm not a Woj fan but I've resigned myself to the fact he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 12, 2020, 11:58:13 AM
Like popping balloons in practice every time there is a turnover.
Did Dominic James get hired as an assistant, hey?
We beat Wisconsin, a game we "could have" won and did.
I was expecting a loss against UCLA. No harm done in my book. 18 TOs will not give many chances for a W.
So what do you "expect" Monday?
A beat down.
Wins against SHU and either X (or whoever the replacement game is) or Nova. Close loss in one of those three games.
Non-competitive loss vs. Creighton. I think we could compete if we slowed it down significantly. I don't think we will do that.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 11:50:54 AM
Yup and many on this board are very comfortable with complacent mediocrity
This is so tired. We all want to win.
Quote from: muhoops1 on December 12, 2020, 11:58:13 AM
Like popping balloons in practice every time there is a turnover. He claims to address/focus on it and yet it has plagued his squads most years of his tenure. I'm not a Woj fan but I've resigned myself to the fact he ain't going anywhere anytime soon.
This is interesting. I am not a high level basketball coach. How does Wojo focus on it or address it? I think this might be the key to getting over the proverbial hump.
In soccer we focus on possession and not losing it (like a b-ball turnover). We focus on the basics (tens of thousands of touches, specific touches, specific moves, specific challenges, with purpose), then implement them in training, then in games, then in off time. We give them tools, put them in difficult positions, allow them to make mistakes, and learn several quick solutions for any given challenge. We promote risk taking, we applaud it even if there is a loss of possession, we correct it, we hold them accountable. This has proven to build confidence which leads to better possession.
I know basketball is different, but I wonder if our guys are playing scared or tentative because of Wojo's "style" whatever that may be. All our players are very good basketball players, some are even excellent. All very good basketball players, all are very good dribblers and passers. So, is it that they are in challenging positions and haven't been given the three options to quickly consider to get out? Is it because they fear making a mistake? Is it that there is no accountability? Is it so much of a me me me game now that players really don't know how to play as a team?
I get it, these are high level athletes and we pay our coach a lot of money. They should all just be better. But, that doesn't mean they still shouldn't continue to work on the basics, game challenges and solutions, and development. They are not at their peak talent at 18. I'm sure they do, but I see so many times where a challenge is presented and the solution isn't a good one.
I'll just hop off the soap box and go back to youth sports now.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 11:50:54 AM
Yup and many on this board are very comfortable with complacent mediocrity
I am not comfortable with what you claim is mediocrity. However, I do realize that in a normal year it is very difficult to win the first true road game. I also realize that every team that misses all of it three point shots in the second half is going to lose to a good team.
I like that Wojo has shifted his emphasis to defense. Defense has been the downfall of Wojo's past teams and he seems to realize this needs to change. Turnovers are frustrating and it is hard to say whether shutting down for two weeks have had some effect on this. I would say the shorten non-conference season has. Normally, we would of played another 4 or more bunny games to get the team ready for the Big East. Of course this applies to all teams, but it effects each team differently. We have only two returning starters, so it is a bigger problem for us than it is for UCLA that has five returning starters.
I love the recruiting and the way he runs the program with integrity and has a team that represents the school well. He clearly needs an assistant to help with the in game adjustments necessary to win close games. I think many big time coaches (ie Lou Carnesecca and probably Al McGuire) had help from their assistants with the intricacies of the game
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 11:50:54 AM
Yup and many on this board are very comfortable with complacent mediocrity
What does this even mean? Please tell us the correct level of outrage because it's hard to have to keep guessing.
Quote from: RushmoreAcademy on December 12, 2020, 02:32:06 PM
What does this even mean? Please tell us the correct level of outrage because it's hard to have to keep guessing.
7 years of mediocrity should be enough to stir your outrage. If not then you are in the complacency club.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
7 years of mediocrity should be enough to stir your outrage. If not then you are in the complacency club.
I wrote a letter
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
7 years of mediocrity should be enough to stir your outrage. If not then you are in the complacency club.
And what have you done willie?
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 03:23:20 PM
7 years of mediocrity should be enough to stir your outrage. If not then you are in the complacency club.
Why are we talking about DePaul?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 12, 2020, 07:02:15 AM
Good recruiter, runs a clean program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's just not gonna happen. Spot on
Decent guy, good recruiter, avoids controversy in the program.
In-game tactitian? Looks like it's not gonna happen.
We're like Stealer's Wheel - stuck in the middle.
Quote from: MU24 on December 12, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
We beat Wisconsin, a game we "could have" won and did.
I was expecting a loss against UCLA. No harm done in my book. 18 TOs will not give many chances for a W.
...but 18 turnovers is bogus! Rinse, repeat
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 12, 2020, 03:41:08 PM
And what have you done willie?
Easy answer: Watched 7 years of Wojo mediocrity. How about you, Fluffy Blue Monstrosity?
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 06:04:47 PM
Easy answer: Watched 7 years of Wojo mediocrity. How about you, Fluffy Blue Monstrosity?
In other words you've done nothing. Why are you so complacent?
I read all of willie's posts in James Cagney's voice. "I knew you was a lousy slurper, Sultan."
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on December 12, 2020, 06:22:51 PM
In other words you've done nothing. Why are you so complacent?
Mazo's burgers
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 06:04:47 PM
Easy answer: Watched 7 years of Wojo mediocrity. How about you, Fluffy Blue Monstrosity?
Sad
Quote from: patso on December 12, 2020, 02:00:45 PM
I love the recruiting and the way he runs the program with integrity and has a team that represents the school well. He clearly needs an assistant to help with the in game adjustments necessary to win close games. I think many big time coaches (ie Lou Carnesecca and probably Al McGuire) had help from their assistants with the intricacies of the game
Hank Raymond's was the day-in day-out guy. AL was showtime!
Quote from: Marq3332 on December 12, 2020, 08:32:50 PM
Hank Raymond's was the day-in day-out guy. AL was showtime!
Yeah but "Hanks" don't often exist in today's game. They are usually getting head coaching jobs of their own.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 12, 2020, 06:04:47 PM
Easy answer: Watched 7 years of Wojo mediocrity. How about you, Fluffy Blue Monstrosity?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on December 12, 2020, 03:37:00 PM
I wrote a letter
No one asked, but when they called for my annual scholarship donation I declined and stated I would continue to decline until we stop embracing mediocrity on the basketball court.
Quote from: MU24 on December 12, 2020, 12:37:40 PM
We beat Wisconsin, a game we "could have" won and did.
I was expecting a loss against UCLA. No harm done in my book. 18 TOs will not give many chances for a W.
Right, but this is the point. We easily *could* have come out of OSU/UW/UCLA 2-1 - and that would have been a "B" or "B+" (if one of the 2 is UW). 3-0 is an "A". 1-2 with the one win being UW is a C+.
This is the thing with Wojo - he's just on the slightly worse side of being a solid coach ("B"). He's not terrible, but which the exception of November 24th, 2018 to February 23rd, 2019 he's never been better than expected.
I thought we were going to lose all three. I would of loved to have gone 2-1 or 3-0, but the actual results exceeded my expectations. I would love to have a team that I could expect to win all three, but we do not.
I do not see us being better than .500 in Big East. To be better than .500 you have to win more road games than the games you lose at home, which I find hard to see actually happening. I predict 7-3 and 3-7 for 10-10.
Quote from: Newsdreams on December 12, 2020, 06:51:04 PM
Mazo's burgers
Review:
Reviewed March 4, 2020
TERRIBLE SERVICE/ BAD ATTITUDE BY OWNERS
They burned my burger and refused to remake it. The service sucks only a really bad line cook can't cook a burger
Date of visit: March 2020
Quote from: TSmith34 on December 13, 2020, 01:06:11 PM
Review:
Reviewed March 4, 2020
TERRIBLE SERVICE/ BAD ATTITUDE BY OWNERS
They burned my burger and refused to remake it. The service sucks only a really bad line cook can't cook a burger
Date of visit: March 2020
They give you a lot of food and it is all freshly made and delicious Maybe you went there on a bad day.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 12, 2020, 06:31:48 PM
I read all of willie's posts in James Cagney's voice. "I knew you was a lousy slurper, Sultan."
and now I do too. I thank you today, in a month from now I'm sure I'll be cursing your very existence.
Quote from: naginiF on December 13, 2020, 04:46:52 PM
and now I do too. I thank you today, in a month from now I'm sure I'll be cursing your very existence.
Yeah, as a film fan, I can't help but cast the MUScoop Movie.
Albert Brooks as MU82
Carl Weathers (circa Arrested Development) as Herman/Trump
Gary Busey as Earl Tatum
George C Scott as Keefe
Robert Forster as 4everwarriors
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 13, 2020, 05:51:51 PM
Yeah, as a film fan, I can't help but cast the MUScoop Movie.
Albert Brooks as MU82
Carl Weathers (circa Arrested Development) as Herman/Trump
Gary Busey as Earl Tatum
George C Scott as Keefe
Robert Forster as 4everwarriors
I think you're spot on with the first 3.....maybe shockingly so and I'll give you George C for Keefe though I thought his career mimicked Brando more, started like Street Car and ended like Apacolypse Now.
4ever is so much Jim Varney, really no other choice.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 13, 2020, 05:51:51 PM
Yeah, as a film fan, I can't help but cast the MUScoop Movie.
Albert Brooks as MU82
Carl Weathers (circa Arrested Development) as Herman/Trump
Gary Busey as Earl Tatum
George C Scott as Keefe
Robert Forster as 4everwarriors
I'll take it!
From Broadcast News to Drive to Mother, etc ... Albert Brooks brings it. It takes a strong actor to be able to bring out both the drama and hilarity that is me. He is a great writer and director, too. But mostly, he's a mensch!
Quote from: Trump Loves The Big East on December 13, 2020, 02:54:26 PM
They give you a lot of food and it is all freshly made and delicious Maybe you went there on a bad day.
So you're Willie
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 13, 2020, 05:51:51 PM
Yeah, as a film fan, I can't help but cast the MUScoop Movie.
Albert Brooks as MU82
Carl Weathers (circa Arrested Development) as Herman/Trump
Gary Busey as Earl Tatum
George C Scott as Keefe
Robert Forster as 4everwarriors
Tom Hanks as Tower
Johnny Depp as BLM
Jennifer Aniston as Chick
Didn't age well
Any thread comparing me to Tom Hanks is ab-so-frickin-lutely brilliant. Nothin but love for ya, Lenny
Rickles as 4evr.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2020, 08:55:11 PM
Tom Hanks as Tower
Johnny Depp as BLM
Jennifer Aniston as Chick
As long as I get Randy Quaid, I'm in.
A weird Steve Wojciechowski mention this morning on WFAN's Boomer & Gio morning show (in NYC).
Someone called in to ask if they knew who Steve Wojciechowski was and that he resembled Boomer Esiason and could be his look alike. They spent a minute looking for an image online and then heavily disagreed (which he doesn't) and that was the end of it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 14, 2020, 08:55:11 PM
Tom Hanks as Tower
Johnny Depp as BLM
Jennifer Aniston as Chick
Works for me!
I have had multiple people, over the course of 20+ years, say I look like Tim Robbins.
Neither my wife nor I see it though.