1) Tower is better at this than me.
2) I was wrong. This was a trap.
3) Koby looks much better in this off the ball role than he did on the ball.
4) Carton needs to be more consistent. We see flashes, but he looks scared to shoot it sometimes. I'd rather see him go 1-8 from 3 if defenses are going under screens than 0-2 while passing up open shots all game.
5) Theo and Dawson are just too slow making their move to shoot the ball. Lewis takes his time making the move, but once he decides he's shoring the ball he goes up quickly and keeps the ball high. The other two are slow and drop the ball down low and get stripped/blocked all the time.
6) Looked a step slower tonight.
7) Lewis is still a freshman.
8) First road test up next.
The only thing I was really annoyed by tonight was the defensive rebounding. Gave up way too many second chance points.
Other than that, just a mediocre mid-major with nothing to lose with a senior who went off.
has symir regressed
Symir is a disaster.
I want Koby off the ball. But not really sure what we do when DJ sits.
But it's getting so bad I almost would rather see Cain dribble around at PG
Quote from: Johnny B on December 08, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
has symir regressed
Not really. He didn't show me anything last year either.
Carton is gonna have to pile up some minutes this season if Marquette will continue to not have a viable backup PG
Koby is what we expected last year.
Dawson needs to get stronger, or play more perimeter
We will depend on a lot of people this year
DJ needs to take the shot.
No buy game will ever be as bad as when we lost to North Dakota State after beating Duke. Assuming we get all our conference games in (which is a big "if") I'm not going to miss the six cupcake games this year. Always such a slog.
Quote from: BLM on December 08, 2020, 09:51:18 PM
Not really. He didn't show me anything last year either.
Yep. Just playing more minutes this year.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on December 08, 2020, 09:50:28 PM
Symir is a disaster.
I want Koby off the ball. But not really sure what we do when DJ sits.
Greg?
Quote from: Silent Verbal on December 08, 2020, 09:54:08 PM
No buy game will ever be as bad as when we lost to North Dakota State after beating Duke. Assuming we get all our conference games in (which is a big "if") I'm not going to miss the six cupcake games this year. Always such a slog.
Totally agree. The shortened schedule has actually been kind of refreshing.
Not the consensus here but I was never worried. Koby showed that he'll be a legit contributor. Different Sotg every game is a good thing IMO. Think we'll see good things from Dex eventually, hes got the body for a Beast contributor.
Quote from: BLM on December 08, 2020, 09:51:18 PM
Not really. He didn't show me anything last year either.
Considering this is a free year, I'll be a little surprised if Symir finishes his career at Marquette.
My daughter (who watches every game with me) said it seems like Symir should play for Green Bay. I had no response.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 08, 2020, 09:57:56 PM
Totally agree. The shortened schedule has actually been kind of refreshing.
Adding UCONN got rid of two cupcakes anyway.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 08, 2020, 09:58:25 PM
Not the consensus here but I was never worried. Koby showed that he'll be a legit contributor. Different Sotg every game is a good thing IMO. Think we'll see good things from Dex eventually, hes got the body for a Beast contributor.
I think we see Dexter take a leap next year. Even though he only missed 2 games, he missed almost the entire preseason of practices. Once the rotation is kind of figured out, it's tough to break into that as someone who has never played a game in the program.
This team has to get more comfortable playing fast, or learn how to actually control the tempo.
1 & 2: strongly agree.
8. Great big step, would not be surprised to see them stumble. Lots of new things for a lot of these kids - long flight, hotels, etc. Not optimistic, but hopeful.
* DJ an incredibly important off season pickup. There was a reason he was ranked in the 30's out of high school. Still feels like he is only playing at 70% of potential but it is night and day when he is in there
* Off the ball Koby so much better than PG Koby
* Team is just better (and more enjoyable to watch) when one guy isn't taking 50% of the shots when he is on the court
* Other than his dribbling escapades, good Jamal tonight
* Tip of the hat to UWGB, they played with heart
Since we beat UW, the UCLA game is kind of house money. Losing both of those and the OKST game would've been no bueno, but I think we're in a good spot now.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on December 08, 2020, 09:57:10 PM
Greg?
Not sure Greg can really be much of a primary ball handler when on the court. But he definitely should see more minutes compared to Symir right now. May mean Koby has to be on the ball a bit but right now its a bullet we need to bite.
Slow on D all night. DJ, Lewis, Cain, Sy, Greg all got beaten off the dribble. Guys were slow to rotate to shooters, too. They hit 2-3 tough 3's but most were in-rhythm 3s. No bueno.
These games happen. I'd rather them happen in a double-digit win.
Wojo was amped up during that one time-out. He was livid about the lack of defensive intensity, and he should have been. That was no "cuddle."
Nice to see Koby step up, and do it mostly in the flow of the offense.
Last week, Garcia returned to earth. Tonight, Lewis did. Freshmen!
I think we'll learn a lot about our team Friday. Hope I can figure out how to watch it!
I felt that Garcia scored more tonight, but remained out of sorts. Got stripped a couple of times, and had his shot blocked. Tried to force things (wanting to keep up with Lewis' game against the Badgers?), and just didn't look reliable.
I still love his potential and the player he will likely become.
Greg cant dribble and falls over every time the wind blows. Would rather see 10 minutes of Sy as long
as he just looks to distribute and not shoot 3s
Quote from: Johnny B on December 08, 2020, 09:50:23 PM
has symir regressed
It feels like it. The turnovers were there last year, but so was the confidence and the vision to the point where you could see him preparing to make a pass before he even received the ball. He had a look of a future savvy guy. This year, it's just turnovers without any confidence.
Quote from: mhendrick on December 08, 2020, 10:24:59 PM
Greg cant dribble and falls over every time the wind blows. Would rather see 10 minutes of Sy as long
as he just looks to distribute and not shoot 3s
Greg was a +10 tonight. Glue guy
Quote from: mhendrick on December 08, 2020, 10:24:59 PM
Greg cant dribble and falls over every time the wind blows. Would rather see 10 minutes of Sy as long
as he just looks to distribute and not shoot 3s
Right now that distribution is going to the other team.
He botched a 1 foot handoff to Cain tonight....
How many time this year has 6'11 Garcia been blocked/stripped on a shot?
Has got to change if he's going to be an inside/outside threat.
Otherwise a win is a win.
Never met anyone who's a big fan of bossa nova before, And he mentioned it twice.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 08, 2020, 10:33:25 PM
It feels like it. The turnovers were there last year, but so was the confidence and the vision to the point where you could see him preparing to make a pass before he even received the ball. He had a look of a future savvy guy. This year, it's just turnovers without any confidence.
How awful was that last Marquette offensive set. Symir loses the ball....runs and grabs it and takes a shot only to be blocked causing a layup the other way. That was ugly.
Quote from: TVDirector on December 08, 2020, 10:38:04 PM
How many time this year has 6'11 Garcia been blocked/stripped on a shot?
Has got to change if he's going to be an inside/outside threat.
Otherwise a win is a win.
Theo too. The coaches need to fix whatever is going on there.
Quote from: Autoengineer on December 08, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
How awful was that last Marquette offensive set. Symir loses the ball....runs and grabs it and takes a shot only to be blocked causing a layup the other way. That was ugly.
Would love to see a list of players who have forgone their senior year of high school to play college ball. Worked pretty well for Markus but Sy doesn't look like he will be effective at this level from what I've seen. However, he should really just be a freshman in his 5th college game. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the point guards who are very limited offensively but I am sure they fit in some systems.
Quote from: Autoengineer on December 08, 2020, 10:39:34 PM
How awful was that last Marquette offensive set. Symir loses the ball....runs and grabs it and takes a shot only to be blocked causing a layup the other way. That was ugly.
The one where Jefferson ran up from behind and picked his pocket was bad too. It was so easy, just no court awareness.
Quote from: Autoengineer on December 08, 2020, 10:41:41 PM
Theo too. The coaches need to fix whatever is going on there.
When bigs dribble too much other than to gain body/space advantage, they lose their advantage and become bad guards. The Dancing Bear was excellent at this s. Theo has improved but that is the majority of his turnovers this year versus moving screens. Garcia will learn as he has been scouted.
It would have been nice for this game to showcase a offense that resembled anything, but its a work in progress. The team is trending up. Gonna be some rough ones here and there but a W is a W.
Quote from: CountryRoads on December 08, 2020, 10:48:45 PM
Would love to see a list of players who have forgone their senior year of high school to play college ball. Worked pretty well for Markus but Sy doesn't look like he will be effective at this level from what I've seen. However, he should really just be a freshman in his 5th college game. Personally, I'm not a huge fan of the point guards who are very limited offensively but I am sure they fit in some systems.
IIRC, Torrence skipped his prep year rather than his senior year of HS.
Torrence has had a rough start to the season. I agree with what others have said about his confidence. I think he will ultimately develop into a nice PG. It was limited attempts but he did shoot 37% from distance last season. If that shot starts to fall it will open some other options up for him.
I almost said this after the Badger game, but didn't because of his game winning play, but Justin Lewis needs lot of work on defense. He's a good help defender but on his own man he is too often flatfooted and I've seen multiple posts work around him with ease. He's got the tools and will get there, just needs the experience.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 08, 2020, 10:04:34 PM
This team has to get more comfortable playing fast, or learn how to actually control the tempo.
Didn't they do that with Bucky on Friday?
Why can't the answer be this was a trap game they slogged through as they think about going to LA tomorrow?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 08, 2020, 11:58:03 PM
Torrence has had a rough start to the season. I agree with what others have said about his confidence. I think he will ultimately develop into a nice PG. It was limited attempts but he did shoot 37% from distance last season. If that shot starts to fall it will open some other options up for him.
I almost said this after the Badger game, but didn't because of his game winning play, but Justin Lewis needs lot of work on defense. He's a good help defender but on his own man he is too often flatfooted and I've seen multiple posts work around him with ease. He's got the tools and will get there, just needs the experience.
I agree with this. I am not ready to sail his ship. In some ways he reminds me of Junior Cadougan - at least a young version of Junior. I am not sure how they line up statistically, but he has a similar game in my mind.
If those three's start falling, things will change a bit.
Quote from: MU82 on December 08, 2020, 10:18:11 PM
Wojo was amped up during that one time-out. He was livid about the lack of defensive intensity, and he should have been. That was no "cuddle.
I bet he was saying something more pointed than "Play harder."
About what I expected. Coming off an emotional win with a trip to LA in the offing, figured this would be one of those games.
Needed to pump the brakes on Justin and tonight showed they'll be some lows with the highs and that's to be expected. He's not a compete player yet. Same holds true with Dawson but getting them these minutes bodes well for the future.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 09, 2020, 02:27:28 AM
Didn't they do that with Bucky on Friday?
For the first time in many seasons, their tempo actually helped us.
MU seems far more comfortable with a slower pace so far. And I'm fine with that, there's lots of ways to win.
Quote from: Heisenberg v2.0 on December 09, 2020, 02:27:28 AM
Didn't they do that with Bucky on Friday?
Why can't the answer be this was a trap game they slogged through as they think about going to LA tomorrow?
Our opponent was a mid major D1 Program. These no fan settings, give the underdog a little bit of a boost. So taking that into consideration, the fact they kept it close but we pulled away at the end is not surprising.
The kids on our team all played hard, which is all that can be asked. Some kids played well and some didn't. Next game, our entire team will have to play hard and play well to win.
Quote from: MUfan12 on December 09, 2020, 07:34:45 AM
For the first time in many seasons, their tempo actually helped us.
MU seems far more comfortable with a slower pace so far. And I'm fine with that, there's lots of ways to win.
MU's fastest tempo game was OSU. UCLA plays slower so that's a matchup plus (342th fastest team).
Quote from: Autoengineer on December 08, 2020, 10:41:41 PM
Theo too. The coaches need to fix whatever is going on there.
It is simple.
Theo is best when he turns and shoots the ball. When he puts the ball on the floor, bad things happen.
Playing Center 101 teaches
CENTERS DO NOT DRIBBLE!!!! They shoot, pass and play defense.
Theo is big and strong. His strength is grabbing the ball and jamming the ball and everything touching it past the rim and down the net. Every now and then, he's able to do his best Markus Howard shooting imitation.
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 09, 2020, 09:13:30 AM
It is simple.
Theo is best when he turns and shoots the ball. When he puts the ball on the floor, bad things happen.
Playing Center 101 teaches CENTERS DO NOT DRIBBLE!!!! They shoot, pass and play defense.
Theo is big and strong. His strength is grabbing the ball and jamming the ball and everything touching it past the rim and down the net. Every now and then, he's able to do his best Markus Howard shooting imitation.
Markus Jackson would like a word with you. #pointcenter
Quote from: MUCam on December 09, 2020, 07:06:22 AM
I agree with this. I am not ready to sail his ship. In some ways he reminds me of Junior Cadougan - at least a young version of Junior. I am not sure how they line up statistically, but he has a similar game in my mind.
If those three's start falling, things will change a bit.
For a PG he doesn't have a great handle. He seems worried to even dribble a lot with his left hand. His shot mechanics are also quite poor. Nice to see him drive and score an and-1 last night.
So far he has not played too well. Last night he casually brought the ball up and had no clue the Phoenix player was right behind and he stole it. Wondering if Stevie Mitchell has what it takes to beat him out next year. Frankly, I hope so. But I also hope Sy proves me wrong.
The season is young. Symir showed flashes of being a solid point guard last year, and I expect/hope that he is will be a solid contributor this year. Koby is best off the ball and DJ needs a back-up.
Sy will be fine.
https://painttouches.com/2019/12/09/symir-torrence-sets-the-table-for-whats-to-come/
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 12, 2019, 09:01:28 AM
1.) Freshman comes in with little to no expectations.
2.) Freshman shows flashes in limited minutes while not even appearing on oppositions scouting report.
3.) Board falls in love with Freshman. (We are here)
4.) Expectations get raised for the now/soon-to-be Sophomore
5.) Player doesn't develop at the pace that many want, partially because of raised expectations, partially because of appearance on scouting report.
6.) Board falls out of love with player.
7/1.) New Freshman comes in with little to no expectation.
Don't get me wrong, I like what I've seen out of Sy, but this is the place where people wanted Derrick over Junior. Then wanted Duane over Derrick. Slightly overshadowed by Henry, but Haani had a very solid Freshman campaign, when expectations were raised/scouting report that he could only go left, well...
Flashes are great, but Sy has still only played 63 minutes of college basketball. Let's either temper expectation and be pleasantly surprised, or not dismiss him if he can't immediately live up to the upcoming raised expectations.
You may now resume your praising of Sy and begin your ripping of me.
Sy is currently on step 5, it seems like Stevie is getting an early start on step 1.
Also, small sample size, but his TO% has dropped from last year to this year while his assist% has stayed consistent.
Sy will be fine. He's rushing his shot a little and not letting the game come to him. The team is struggling with identity a bit, but the identity may just be "anyone will step up at any given time."
That said, nice to see strong leadership last night from Kobe. I realized I haven't actually heard him talk much before, but in the postgame interview he came off as a great kid that wants to win here.
I did not have a great time watching that game. It was far too close to comfort, UW-GB really brought an energy that we did not last night. They were all-in on D and their O didn't look too bad against our newly minted defense.
I hope that Garcia starts keeping the ball higher. He shouldn't be getting blocked against UW-GB, but he has a tendency to shoot without leaving the ground in the post. Just freshman things, I think that he has some bad habits that he picked up playing against smaller competition pre-college.
Yeah not trying to pile on, but Garcia just keeps getting blocked.
1. Lewis and Garcia are freshmen. They need to get stronger with the ball. There will be good games and bad games. Patience.
2. Symir needs to make a 3. Saw lots of complaints about him, but who is playing well enough to take minutes from him?
3. Cain dribbling. Arrrvggghh.
4. Would have liked to see 3 guards with Cain at the 4 against a small team with your freshman forwards struggling.
5. Defense was a half step slow.
6. Admiral Akbar..."It's a trap."
7. Saw the double screen with Koby turning the corner play finally. It was what got him going.
8. Green Bay hit some prayers. Oops.
9. Avoided an ugly loss. Bring on the Bruins.
10. Avoid COVID.
It seems I'm in the minority here, at least based on this thread, but there literally was not one minute of last night's game during which I was close to concerned about the outcome. My only concern was whether they covered, and I didn't think they would given the classic letdown+lookahead nature of the game.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 09, 2020, 01:58:19 PM
It seems I'm in the minority here, at least based on this thread, but there literally was not one minute of last night's game during which I was close to concerned about the outcome. My only concern was whether they covered, and I didn't think they would given the classic letdown+lookahead nature of the game.
Agree completely, and I think Dawson had a pretty solid game (I'll take 18 points on 7/13 shooting 7 rebounds and only 1 TO), and Lewis made some good passes for his assists.
Quote from: Pakuni on December 09, 2020, 01:58:19 PM
It seems I'm in the minority here, at least based on this thread, but there literally was not one minute of last night's game during which I was close to concerned about the outcome. My only concern was whether they covered, and I didn't think they would given the classic letdown+lookahead nature of the game.
I agree. Never felt it was in doubt, but I didn't think they played particularly well on either end. Really, it was just that Koby had the answer any times the Phoenix looked like they were thinking about rising.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 09, 2020, 02:27:55 PM
I agree. Never felt it was in doubt, but I didn't think they played particularly well on either end. Really, it was just that Koby had the answer any times the Phoenix looked like they were thinking about rising.
Yeah, definitely not their best effort. But also not surprising, given it came days after a big rivalry win and days before a road trip to LA to play a ranked opponent. In a perfect world, teams are at their best regardless of the circumstances, but that's rarely the case.
I'm content with an easy, double-digit win under the circumstances.
Quote from: Its DJOver on December 09, 2020, 09:55:55 AM
Sy will be fine.
https://painttouches.com/2019/12/09/symir-torrence-sets-the-table-for-whats-to-come/
Sy is currently on step 5, it seems like Stevie is getting an early start on step 1.
Also, small sample size, but his TO% has dropped from last year to this year while his assist% has stayed consistent.
I'm with you, he will be solid as the season rolls on.