MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 27, 2020, 08:30:08 PM
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1. That Garcia kid can play. Blocked from behind by little guys at the rim, though.
2. Theo sure is fun with two good wrists.
3. Hire Spoonhour to coach defense. Really like their pressure and rotations.
4. Symir dribbles too much.
5. Good game rebounding.
6. Cain with two fouls in the first 3 minutes (a) affected rotations the entire first half and (b) can't happen from a senior.
7. MU's defense through two games has been solid. Big guards are a wonderful thing. It seems they both extended and simplified their rotations. More staying in front of the man.
8. Already with a short bench? Get well soon, Dexter.
9. DJ and Koby both ended up with decent numbers.
10. Lewis had a couple nice plays in the first half. Freshman. Again, going to be fun to watch him grow.
11. 2 easy ones done. Road gets tougher.
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If Theo is truly gonna be a one of our 3 best free throw shooters(I feel good about Koby and Dawson). We will have some scary finishes. I think we went 1/2 basically the entire second half and lots of the first.
Rebounding and D are pretty damn good. Most of the O rebounds they got were on complete bricks that took weird bounces. Cain is a huge difference maker in that department.
Symir can be really good with his passing but I completely agree with your point. In the half court he dribbles way too much at times(mostly in the second half here).
Dawson and Lewis both look like legit players but both as well as almost the entire team gotta get better aroudn the rim going strong. We have a lot of sacar style biffs or blocks do to thinking its gonna be a easy bucket.
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-- JL needs to work on his FT's and he'll be unstoppable
--Sy was trying to do too much at times today. 6 assists though.
-- Great Great to see DJ get some shots to go today. Need him to grow his confidence.
--Theo still a beast.
-- The FS1 Glitches drove me nuts.
-- Tougher opponent, we showed some slop and some very stagnant stretches.
--Agree tower, the D looks improved.
--Like the look of this team, but I suspect we go 1-1 next week. W vs OKSU. L vs Bucky.
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We almost saw this five on the floor together, but I’d like to see Theo, Dawson, McEwen, Lewis, Carton get some four minute runs as a unit.
1000% agree, Symir needs to stop dribbling so much.
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13/41(32%) from 2.
So that definitely gonna need to be better next week.
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Through two games, big guards doing a good job of staying in front of the dribbler. Theo doing his shot blocking thing, but there is enough size to help keep his guy off the boards or contest on the dump off.
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5 guys with 7 or more rebounds.
That is also very pleasant.
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Wojo starting to cut down his rotation. Oso and Perez got garbage time and Elliott had minimal. When Cain had foul issues, McEwen went to the three and Carton and Torrence had the guards. Garcia, Theo and Lewis rotated the other positions. Carton will get significant minutes as the season progresses.
Lewis played probably a half and had 10 points and 8 rebounds. Could have been more but he went 5 for 10 from the line. He looks very poised as a freshman so far.
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Wojo starting to cut down his rotation. Oso and Perez got garbage time and Elliott had minimal. When Cain had foul issues, McEwen went to the three and Carton and Torrence had the guards. Garcia, Theo and Lewis rotated the other positions. Carton will get significant minutes as the season progresses.
Lewis played probably a half and had 10 points and 8 rebounds. Could have been more but he went 5 for 10 from the line. He looks very poised as a freshman so far.
Once we get to the BE, Dawson and Carton will be 30+ minutes guys. Theo should be close to 30. Of course that is assuming no foul trouble. I look for McEwen to be around 25 and after that, it will be according to how well anyone is playing, although I think Lewis will be close to 20 minutes.
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Justin spends (in my opinion) too long in a frozen position before a FT. It's like golf - good things don't happen after a Lot's wife-like preparation. It's probably what he's used to, it will be interesting to see how it develops over his MU career.
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Lewis is my favorite player. Love how he plays all facets of the game.
Dawson is so sweet.
Need DJ...Symir will get us in trouble at the point.
DJ
Koby
Jamal?
Dawson/Theo/Justin.
Why doesn’t Dawson jump the jump ball?
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Once we get to the BE, Dawson and Carton will be 30+ minutes guys. Theo should be close to 30. Of course that is assuming no foul trouble. I look for McEwen to be around 25 and after that, it will be according to how well anyone is playing, although I think Lewis will be close to 20 minutes.
Cain is gonna get a lot of minutes too it appears unless he has crazy TO's.
Guy got in foul trouble in the 1st half. Not sure he even came out in the second half until the end when we subbed.
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6th best defensive game in Wojo Era, statistically.
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Cain is gonna get a lot of minutes too it appears unless he has crazy TO's.
Guy got in foul trouble in the 1st half. Not sure he even came out in the second half until the end when we subbed.
I agree. He will be 4th or 5th in minutes played.
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I agree with the others who say Justin is going to be a very good player.
Also loving the healthy Theo, and Dawson is the real deal.
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DJ with an ok day and still finished with 13-7-4. Can’t wait for him to get going.
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In the first game, my thought was "wow, APB is really bad on offense." In this game, my thought was "wow, we are really good on defense." Very crisp rotations, good help when needed, very rarely did any one lose there man.
Also remind me, isn't the rule that if a player steps out of bounds (without the ball) he isn't allowed to be the first person to touch the ball? If so, the refs missed a very easy call and it led to an EIU three.
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In the first game, my thought was "wow, APB is really bad on offense." In this game, my thought was "wow, we are really good on defense." Very crisp rotations, good help when needed, very rarely did any one lose there man.
Also remind me, isn't the rule that if a player steps out of bounds (without the ball) he isn't allowed to be the first person to touch the ball? If so, the refs missed a very easy call and it led to an EIU three.
Yes thats the rule.
Happened in a different game I was watching today. Might of been SHU vs UL.
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1. That Garcia kid can play. Blocked from behind by little guys at the rim, though.
2. Theo sure is fun with two good wrists.
3. Hire Spoonhour to coach defense. Really like their pressure and rotations.
4. Symir dribbles too much.
5. Good game rebounding.
6. Cain with two fouls in the first 3 minutes (a) affected rotations the entire first half and (b) can't happen from a senior.
7. MU's defense through two games has been solid. Big guards are a wonderful thing. It seems they both extended and simplified their rotations. More staying in front of the man.
8. Already with a short bench? Get well soon, Dexter.
9. DJ and Koby both ended up with decent numbers.
10. Lewis had a couple nice plays in the first half. Freshman. Again, going to be fun to watch him grow.
11. 2 easy ones done. Road gets tougher.
Overall agreement. Theo, Garcia and Lewis are our most formidable front line in some time. Re #6, Cain picked up foul #2 three minutes into the game riding and bumping his man on the dribble 35 feet from the basket. That just can’t happen.
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Yes thats the rule.
Happened in a different game I was watching today. Might of been SHU vs UL.
Think there was one in the Illinois game as well.
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This is Theo’s team and that’s absolutely fantastic. This is a whole new Marquette. I love it.
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In the first game, my thought was "wow, APB is really bad on offense." In this game, my thought was "wow, we are really good on defense." Very crisp rotations, good help when needed, very rarely did any one lose there man.
Also remind me, isn't the rule that if a player steps out of bounds (without the ball) he isn't allowed to be the first person to touch the ball? If so, the refs missed a very easy call and it led to an EIU three.
Pretty sure that’s just football. Basketball if you reestablish yourself inbounds before you touch the ball it’s fine.
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DJ Carton looked great tonight. The kid has elite speed and quickness. Love how he dives after loose balls.
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Pretty sure that’s just football. Basketball if you reestablish yourself inbounds before you touch the ball it’s fine.
This
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All great point. Some very exciting players to watch - freshmen doing pretty well. Dream D, good ball movement. Symir does dribble too much in half court and almost always looks to pass on the perimeter. I think general , we still have issues getting the ball inside consistently.
Carton will be very very good, as well as Garcia (who doesn’t smile much lol) and Lewis - thought at 50% from the ft line, he won’t be in at the end of tight games unless rotated in fir defense.
Overall, I am excited to watch this team play. The whole team is pretty good. Tough road ahead next week. Tough early games to have.
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This
No its not. Like we said above, it happened it other games today.
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No its not. Like we said above, it happened it other games today.
And like I was saying it happened in other games because the rule in basketball is you have to re-establish your position in bounds (two feet inbounds) before you touch the ball. Does not matter if you are the first player to touch the ball
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And like I was saying it happened in other games because the rule in basketball is you have to re-establish your position in bounds (two feet inbounds) before you touch the ball. Does not matter if you are the first player to touch the ball
No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.
He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.
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In the first game, my thought was "wow, APB is really bad on offense." In this game, my thought was "wow, we are really good on defense." Very crisp rotations, good help when needed, very rarely did any one lose there man.
Also remind me, isn't the rule that if a player steps out of bounds (without the ball) he isn't allowed to be the first person to touch the ball? If so, the refs missed a very easy call and it led to an EIU three.
I was very impressed with our defense tonight for all the reasons you state. We rarely gave a good look to a team that just lost by 10 at Madison. Also, totally dominated the boards against a team that outrebounded Madison.
As for the play by Wallace - perfectly legal as long as he re-establishes himself on the court before touching the basketball again. This is one of those calls rec-league refs often miss (unfortunately, I speak from experience from early in my officiating career).
A few other observations:
++ Obviously, our guys will be playing significantly better teams next week, but EIU was not a horrible team.
++ If folks look around at some of the scores today, there were ranked teams losing and lots of good teams barely winning. Virginia lost at home to San Fran. Illinois had to rally to beat Ohio by 2 at home. Syracuse beat Bryant by 1. So I'll take a never-in-doubt, 25-point win over a not-horrible team, thank you!
++ It was nice to see a few shots fall for DJ. He is obviously super-talented, but he hadn't been rewarded with buckets until pretty late in the game. Needs to be a little less loose with the basketball, and I'm sure he will.
++ Both Symir and Koby play too much bouncy-ball. Symir got taken out right after a turnover resulted from his bouncy-balling, and that's good by Wojo.
++ I practically fainted when Theo swished that 3. Like his FTs, really nice form ... but I don't think we want him taking too many of those. Theo has looked totally dominant so far -- our MVP after two games IMHO -- and I look forward to seeing him play healthy against better competition next week.
++ Lewis has game and will only get better and better.
++ Garcia not only would start for every college team, he also would start for every NBA team and be first-team All-NBA. If there were such a thing as All-Universe, he'd be that, too. There. I said it.
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No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.
He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.
That makes no sense at all. The ball was not touched by any player on the court for 3 seconds?
Unless there was a rule change this year, as long as you reestablish yourself with two feet in bounds, you can be the first person to touch the ball. It’s not the same as in football.
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No, this player literally ran out of bounds to avoid contact on the baseline. Came around to the top of the key and got the pass from the guy waiting up there and it was called.
He was legitamately in bound for a good 3 seconds.
Called for what? I will need to watch it because the rule 100% is they just need to re-establish position. If they called it out of bounds then they were dead wrong. Reggie Miller would have had about half his 3’s called off, he literally stepped out of bounds every time he went off those double baseline staggers.
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That makes no sense at all. The ball was not touched by any player on the court for 3 seconds?
Unless there was a rule change this year, as long as you reestablish yourself with two feet in bounds, you can be the first person to touch the ball. It’s not the same as in football.
No it was in another players hands the whole time.
Basically you had the ball. Picked up your dribble. Waited for me to come to you to get the pass. In the process of me making my journey close to you I ran out of bound to avoid the defender and when I came to meet you at the top of the key and accepted the pass they blew the whistle.
Now, unless they made up a rule that the announcers also didn't not complain about, it appears you cannot be the first to touch it in basketball either.
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Called for what? I will need to watch it because the rule 100% is they just need to re-establish position. If they called it out of bounds then they were dead wrong. Reggie Miller would have had about half his 3’s called off, he literally stepped out of bounds every time he went off those double baseline staggers.
Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.
Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.
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++ Garcia not only would start for every college team, he also would start for every NBA team and be first-team All-NBA. If there were such a thing as All-Universe, he'd be that, too. There. I said it.
Now we know you've been hitting some of those wonderful high ABV beers that hit this time of year. Oh wait, that's me projecting. Nevermind.
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Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.
Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.
Alright, going to have to watch it because in the game of basketball it is 100% the rule you just need to re-establish position in bounds before touching the ball. The only exception is if you are the person inbounding the ball then you cannot be the first to touch it.
The only three infractions that I can think of that look like over and back hand signals are the over and back call, carry call, and the person inbounding stepping in bounds before passing the ball. If that was the call they were wrong and the announcers were wrong for suggesting that because that is not a basketball rule
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Ref did the hand signal as if it were "over and back". Did that exact same motion. Then the announcers said it was because he was out of bounds and was next to touch it.
Can't remember the game but since Chitown said he saw it in the Illlinois game it was probably that one, since that was one of the many games I watched today.
Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can’t be the first to touch the ball then you’d never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.
https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw
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Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can’t be the first to touch the ball then you’d never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.
https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw
In that case isn't the first person to touch it the person whose back it hit?
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Either the refs really messed up or the announcers just explained the wrong thing. If you can’t be the first to touch the ball then you’d never be able to throw the ball off the back of a defender as an inbounder and step in and grab the ball, which happens a couple times a year at every level of basketball.
https://youtu.be/naNJ3_PswVw
While, I obviously am just going off what I saw today and am not an expert myself I would explain your example by saying....the other team touched the ball then the in bounder grabbed it.
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In that case isn't the first person to touch it the person whose back it hit?
I’d argue it’s almost impossible to be quick enough to be fully established back in bounds before the ball is off of the defender’s back.
Also, in the situation PG describes, it sounds like the original ball handler would then be the first person to be touching the ball after the guy going to get the ball from him reestablishes himself in bounds.
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I’d argue it’s almost impossible to be quick enough to be fully established back in bounds before the ball is off of the defender’s back.
But again, you don't have to be quick. You're the 2nd person touching the ball. duh. (define "establish").
You're just arguing now. But you may have witnessed a case when the refs got it wrong - that happens. edit - whoops conflating two different arguments. Nevermind. Did I mention good beer?
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I think it was called because he voluntarily ran out when he could have stayed in. Kind of like how it is a penalty when the gunner runs OB untouched in football and then impacts the play.
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Alright, going to have to watch it because in the game of basketball it is 100% the rule you just need to re-establish position in bounds before touching the ball. The only exception is if you are the person inbounding the ball then you cannot be the first to touch it.
I thought the same as you, but maybe the rule changed this year because Hogan’s description is what happened. The player came back in bounds and took several steps before he caught the ball. The announcers said he couldn’t be the 1st to touch it.
Never seen that call before.
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Cain is a special player.
Defensively, it does seem like it doesn't come naturally for him.
However, he is extremely smooth with incredible natural ability.
Not afraid to go get the put backs and defensive rebounds.
One of the teams best rebounders.
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I think it was called because he voluntarily ran out when he could have stayed in. Kind of like how it is a penalty when the gunner runs OB untouched in football and then impacts the play.
^^^This is it right here^^^
Here is the rule quoted directly from the NCAA rulebook:
"Section 3. Player Out of Bounds
Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under his own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation."
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Cain is a special player.
Defensively, it does seem like it doesn't come naturally for him.
However, he is extremely smooth with incredible natural ability.
Not afraid to go get the put backs and defensive rebounds.
One of the teams best rebounders.
I like Cain, and he is very valuable when hitting open 3s and otherwise playing at his best, but I have seen no evidence in 3+ seasons to suggest he is more "special" than several other Marquette players -- most notably Garcia and Carton, but also Theo and quite possibly Lewis.
Jamal has skills that can help (and have helped) our team but also significant weaknesses, especially when he tries to do too much with the ball.
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I have to agree with We R that Dawson should be jumping for the tip.
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I like Cain, and he is very valuable when hitting open 3s and otherwise playing at his best, but I have seen no evidence in 3+ seasons to suggest he is more "special" than several other Marquette players -- most notably Garcia and Carton, but also Theo and quite possibly Lewis.
Jamal has skills that can help (and have helped) our team but also significant weaknesses, especially when he tries to do too much with the ball.
Love how Jamal is attacking offensive glass so far. Can really add value there with his athleticism. He’ll start knocking down his open looks from distance soon too.
He’s a lousy defender still. He couldn’t guard Wallace at all when he was on him in the 2nd half.
Agree with your assessment, we’ll have to take some bad with the good, but I think good play from him may finally outweigh his negative play this season.
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Love how Jamal is attacking offensive glass so far. Can really add value there with his athleticism. He’ll start knocking down his open looks from distance soon too.
He’s a lousy defender still. He couldn’t guard Wallace at all when he was on him in the 2nd half.
Agree with your assessment, we’ll have to take some bad with the good, but I think good play from him may finally outweigh his negative play this season.
I'll take exactly that -- hit open 3s at a 40% clip, make some alley-oop dunks, hit the boards. If he does those things, he can be a big help despite his defensive shortcomings.
He is a good athlete, so he should be a better defender. But I think it might be a case similar to that of Jamil -- despite otherwise outstanding athletic ability, he isn't very good at moving laterally and doesn't have great anticipation, so he has trouble staying in front of guys who probably aren't as athletic.
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I'll take exactly that -- hit open 3s at a 40% clip, make some alley-oop dunks, hit the boards. If he does those things, he can be a big help despite his defensive shortcomings.
He is a good athlete, so he should be a better defender. But I think it might be a case similar to that of Jamil -- despite otherwise outstanding athletic ability, he isn't very good at moving laterally and doesn't have great anticipation, so he has trouble staying in front of guys who probably aren't as athletic.
Nailed it on his primary defensive shortcomings, especially lack of seemingly any lateral quickness.
Certainly can play a major role playing to his strengths. Really hope he puts those together finally on a consistent basis.
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This is Theo’s team and that’s absolutely fantastic. This is a whole new Marquette. I love it.
No fans at the games had plenty of negatives but one positive is getting to hear Theo QB the defense. Not sure if he was that vocal, or that much of a leader, last year but it's cool to get to hear.
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I still cringe every time we have the ball in transition. If the defense has even 1 person back, I never like our odds to score. Been that way every single year of wojo.
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I didn't read through the entire game thread, but has there been any conversation about Dawson's failed attempts to draw a charge? I have seen it several times where he stops and sets up too far in front of the ball-handler and the guy just dribbles around him.
Maybe Jae can come for a visit and show him how it is done.
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I didn't read through the entire game thread, but has there been any conversation about Dawson's failed attempts to draw a charge? I have seen it several times where he stops and sets up too far in front of the ball-handler and the guy just dribbles around him.
Maybe Jae can come for a visit and show him how it is done.
I think it's like the timing of blocking shots. Some players just don't got it.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLxmHZYNd2k
Garcia and Wojo