I expected 2-2 at this point, an OT loss by one point is the difference. Need to make one up somewhere.
WhoaJoe
Nice thread.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 11, 2020, 05:31:39 PM
I expected 2-2 at this point, an OT loss by one point is the difference. Need to make one up somewhere.
crapshoot?
Quote from: Cheeks on January 11, 2020, 05:31:39 PM
I expected 2-2 at this point, an OT loss by one point is the difference. Need to make one up somewhere.
An inexcusable one point loss AT HOME
Buzz & the midgets started off 1-4 in conf.
This is the 10 year anniversary of that and we're led by another midget.
Let's do this.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 11, 2020, 05:31:39 PM
I expected 2-2 at this point, an OT loss by one point is the difference. Need to make one up somewhere.
Your boy wojo blowjo....id rather have ctc at this point...at least his teams played with some grit.
Year 6 is tooo early to judge...🙄
I love the the "well I did not expect them to win at Creighton or Seton Hall"
Mediocrity expectations shining through....
Here's a hint - the top Big East teams do win league road games...
Quote from: Cheeks on January 11, 2020, 05:31:39 PM
I expected 2-2 at this point, an OT loss by one point is the difference. Need to make one up somewhere.
Quote from: The Lens on January 11, 2020, 05:54:45 PM
Buzz & the midgets started off 1-4 in conf.
This is the 10 year anniversary of that and we're led by another midget.
Let's do this.
"There was also a lot of other stuff going on that year."
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 11, 2020, 06:02:22 PM
"There was also a lot of other stuff going on that year."
Yep. Buzz's year 2, zero issues, should have been national coach of the year and already Chico was in full hate mode. "Choking dogs pee down their legs!"
1 - 3?
1 - 3?
Except for an unexpected good game vs. Nova we'd be 0 - 4!
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 11, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
I love the the "well I did not expect them to win at Creighton or Seton Hall"
Mediocrity expectations shining through....
Here's a hint - the top Big East teams do win league road games...
Thank you, thank you thank you! I have ALWAYS hated when people say "I wasn't expecting them to win that game anyway". That is the definition to me of accepting mediocrity. These same people dismiss a home loss to a very mediocre Providence team as "it happens, it was a 1 point loss in ot". First of all, you shouldn't even be in a situation where playing PC at home, results in putting yourself in a position where the game is close enough to even go to OT. That's the first problem. The 2nd problem is..you lost that game...if you can't beat PC at home, then who can you beat?? Georgetown with 7 players?? Maybe. SJU?? Not sure.
Quote from: muguru on January 11, 2020, 09:59:58 PM
Thank you, thank you thank you! I have ALWAYS hated when people say "I wasn't expecting them to win that game anyway". That is the definition to me of accepting mediocrity. These same people dismiss a home loss to a very mediocre Providence team as "it happens, it was a 1 point loss in ot". First of all, you shouldn't even be in a situation where playing PC at home, results in putting yourself in a position where the game is close enough to even go to OT. That's the first problem. The 2nd problem is..you lost that game...if you can't beat PC at home, then who can you beat?? Georgetown with 7 players?? Maybe. SJU?? Not sure.
Villanova
1-3 isn't the end of the world. But the bigger concern right now is how rarely we've played well in conference play. If you break it down by half, I'd say we've played 2 good halves of basketball and 3 really bad halves so far. My assessment would be:
- Good: H1 vs. Nova, H1 @ SHU
- OK/Not bad: H1 and H2 vs. Providence
- Not very good: H1 @ Creighton
- Bad: H2 @ Creighton, H2 vs. Nova, H2 @ SHU
This isn't based on specific metrics, just my own take on how the team has played. We have definitely seen some really good things, but we've seen a lot more bad than I expected.
Quote from: PointWarrior on January 11, 2020, 06:00:38 PM
I love the the "well I did not expect them to win at Creighton or Seton Hall"
Mediocrity expectations shining through....
Here's a hint - the top Big East teams do win league road games...
Villanova a top Big East team...they lost at MU....coach of the decade last I checked.
Sorry, but in this league I didn't expect to win more than 2 of the first 4. Neither did the computers.
PointWarrior
Happy New Year!
Cheeks is the king of mediocrity in regards to MU ball. To him, mediocrity allows for reasons to post and argue. Mediocrity is good business for Chico on Scoop.
Skianth
Spot on. Plus you add in horrible half against Purdue, two horrible against UW, another two against Maryland and we have guys on here tracking our seeding. Do they watch games or just read computer rankings? This team has stunk up most of this season.
Quote from: muguru on January 11, 2020, 05:45:30 PM
An inexcusable one point loss AT HOME
exactly correct. I fear we are a cluster
The rest of you can piss the trousers if you wish, lots of golf left. Next game is a big one for sure.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 11, 2020, 09:57:32 PM
1 - 3?
1 - 3?
Except for an unexpected good game vs. Nova we'd be 0 - 4!
What does that even mean? I could say except for the unexpected loss at home against Providence we would be 2-2. Our record is 1-3. We did beat Nova.
I am disappointed we lost. I do think if we lose at home against this week Xavier the team will struggle to get to .500.
Thread started about us being 1-3. People express displeasure about us being 1-3. Why is this remarkable?
Quote from: skianth16 on January 11, 2020, 10:17:01 PM
- Good: H1 vs. Nova, H1 @ SHU
- OK/Not bad: H1 and H2 vs. Providence
- Not very good: H1 @ Creighton
- Bad: H2 @ Creighton, H2 vs. Nova, H2 @ SHU
I definitely wouldn't put H2 vs Nova in the bad category. Our offense was very quiet for much of that half, but I think the defense was really impressive. If you go 10 minutes scoring less than 10 points, you're likely to blow a big lead. We didnt, because the defense was excellent too.
To a lesser degree the same could be said of H2 vs Seton Hall. Ok defense, bad offense. The wheels just came off after the Koby missed dunk and missed FTs.
When have we been "bad"? The whole Creighton game and the last 10 minutes of Seton Hall.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 11, 2020, 09:17:22 PM
Yep. Buzz's year 2, zero issues, should have been national coach of the year and already Chico was in full hate mode. "Choking dogs pee down their legs!"
Yup, I used Buzz's own words to describe what we did.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 11, 2020, 09:57:32 PM
1 - 3?
1 - 3?
Except for an unexpected good game vs. Nova we'd be 0 - 4!
Or, except for letting a guy hit a tough 3 we would be 2-2. Outlook on life is different depending on what is in your soul. I prefer to be an optimist and not a trouser pisser.
Quote from: Goose on January 12, 2020, 06:06:35 AM
PointWarrior
Happy New Year!
Cheeks is the king of mediocrity in regards to MU ball. To him, mediocrity allows for reasons to post and argue. Mediocrity is good business for Chico on Scoop.
Skianth
Spot on. Plus you add in horrible half against Purdue, two horrible against UW, another two against Maryland and we have guys on here tracking our seeding. Do they watch games or just read computer rankings? This team has stunk up most of this season.
Lol. Goose, I love you man but you are full of shat here. I think you don't know what mediocrity is and a lot of you would have fired some of the best coaches in history because your patience is so lacking.
And as I told you, on my father's grave, my daughter's health, etc...I'm not this new WhoaJoe character...and the mods can prove it. All a ruse, sorry you and others buy into it.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 09:14:23 AM
The rest of you can piss the trousers if you wish, lots of golf left. Next game is a big one for sure.
I guess the doubters are coming from Wojo's seven games under .500 lifetime Big East record, with just two seasons over (one barely). And, the one great season saw two of its three best players leave.
Wojo had an early start to this season to mold this team into something that was greater than the sum of its parts. He is a systems coach, and really doesn't deviate from that to change things up within a season. The problem is: He has been scouted. So, we are left with, can he coach up the players within his system for the rest of this season?
Most of us are hopeful, but many are also doubtful at this point. We see a stubborn coach who won't change his system to fit his talent. We see overuse of his star affecting cohesion. And then in the BE, other than the first half versus Nova, we don't see talent stepping up into open voids the Hausers left.
These next three games are all winnable. Let's see if he can earn his raise. I don't like golf.
Cheeks
All good, just nice another poster with similar thoughts and time on his hands. I got your PM and believe you.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 12, 2020, 09:54:28 AM
I guess the doubters are coming from Wojo's seven games under .500 lifetime Big East record, with just two seasons over (one barely). And, the one great season saw two of its three best players leave.
Wojo had an early start to this season to mold this team into something that was greater than the sum of its parts. He is a systems coach, and really doesn't deviate from that to change things up within a season. The problem is: He has been scouted. So, we are left with, can he coach up the players within his system for the rest of this season?
Most of us are hopeful, but many are also doubtful at this point. We see a stubborn coach who won't change his system to fit his talent. We see overuse of his star affecting cohesion. And then n the BE, other than the first half versus Nova, we don't see talent stepping up into open voids the Hausers left.
These next three games are all winnable. Let's see if he can earn his raise. I don't like golf.
The 7 games under .500 is bullshat. The first year is what that entire record is about in a rebuild. Those are just games played by people with an agenda...the first year with mostly another coaches's pieces.
I'm really stunned people are bitching about us losing at Seton Hall...I mean, really? They were picked to win the conference for a reason,..they are good. It was on the road. I don't care if the Hausers were here or not, that is a game we are likely going to lose. It's a game most teams in this league are going to lose in that building.
Heading to the airport so my son can return to frigid Milwaukee. On to the next game...Xavier is a huge game....no doubt. Lose that one, and I get nervous.
Cheeks, if you think the issue is simply that they lost to Seton Hall, you really don't know what you are talking about.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 09:54:12 AM
Lol. Goose, I love you man but you are full of shat here. I think you don't know what mediocrity is and a lot of you would have fired some of the best coaches in history because your patience is so lacking.
And as I told you, on my father's grave, my daughter's health, etc...I'm not this new WhoaJoe character...and the mods can prove it. All a ruse, sorry you and others buy into it.
It would be easier to believe you if you hadn't pulled the same thing before.
I'm just curious. At what point do you give up on the wojo era, what would it take? For me I see a guy who is in over his head. Maybe he turns it around, I would love to be wrong. Middle of the big east and missing ncaa or losing first round are not good enough for me.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
The 7 games under .500 is bullshat. The first year is what that entire record is about in a rebuild. Those are just games played by people with an agenda...the first year with mostly another coaches's pieces.
I'm really stunned people are bitching about us losing at Seton Hall...I mean, really? They were picked to win the conference for a reason,..they are good. It was on the road. I don't care if the Hausers were here or not, that is a game we are likely going to lose. It's a game most teams in this league are going to lose in that building.
Heading to the airport so my son can return to frigid Milwaukee. On to the next game...Xavier is a huge game....no doubt. Lose that one, and I get nervous.
Pot, meet kettle.
It's been mentioned, but the frustration isn't as much with the loss as it is with the way we lost. Scoring 18 points in the second half, shooting 33% from the field, 7 points from the bench, 21 points from starters not named Markus. These are all things worth being frustrated over.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 12, 2020, 10:08:17 AM
Pot, meet kettle.
It's been mentioned, but the frustration isn't as much with the loss as it is with the way we lost. Scoring 18 points in the second half, shooting 33% from the field, 7 points from the bench, 21 points from starters not named Markus. These are all things worth being frustrated over.
Turnovers. Blown away at the beginning of the second half. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
The 7 games under .500 is bullshat. The first year is what that entire record is about in a rebuild. Those are just games played by people with an agenda...the first year with mostly another coaches's pieces.
I'm really stunned people are bitching about us losing at Seton Hall...I mean, really? They were picked to win the conference for a reason,..they are good. It was on the road. I don't care if the Hausers were here or not, that is a game we are likely going to lose. It's a game most teams in this league are going to lose in that building.
Heading to the airport so my son can return to frigid Milwaukee. On to the next game...Xavier is a huge game....no doubt. Lose that one, and I get nervous.
I am not going to rehash again my thoughts about the delay on the rebuild, other to say that it should have started from Day 1 with a Polewhacking of the roster and recruits who inevitably left anyway so he could get his talent in here sooner.
As for the Seton Hall game, if it wasn't the worst offensively efficient game since that first season on top of a very bad BE season start, then yeah, it's easy to dismiss. It's time to quit talking though, and start showing. Xavier is a huge game.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 12, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
I am not going to rehash again my thoughts about the delay on the rebuild, other to say that it should have started from Day 1 with a Polewhacking of the roster and recruits who inevitably left anyway so he could get his talent in here sooner.
As for the Seton Hall game, if it wasn't the worst offensively efficient game since that first season on top of a very bad BE season start, then yeah, it's easy to dismiss. It's time to quit talking though, and start showing. Xavier is a huge game.
Cheeks knows his stuff. He's been in the sports industry for a long time. He likes JJ.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 12, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
I am not going to rehash again my thoughts about the delay on the rebuild, other to say that it should have started from Day 1 with a Polewhacking of the roster and recruits who inevitably left anyway so he could get his talent in here sooner.
As for the Seton Hall game, if it wasn't the worst offensively efficient game since that first season on top of a very bad BE season start, then yeah, it's easy to dismiss. It's time to quit talking though, and start showing. Xavier is a huge game.
Feels like we need to go 3-0 over this upcoming stretch or tourney prospects become grim. I'd like to see some focused dominance in the 2 home games (comfortable 6-8 point Ws at minimum) and I don't care how we win in D.C.
Anything less and I don't see a realistic path to the NCAAs, as sad as that sounds. Would have been too many blown opportunities already.
Big turning point upcoming for the regime. I hope the team is prepared and plays as such. When backs are against the wall, character becomes revealed.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 12, 2020, 10:10:32 AM
I am not going to rehash again my thoughts about the delay on the rebuild, other to say that it should have started from Day 1 with a Polewhacking of the roster and recruits who inevitably left anyway so he could get his talent in here sooner.
As for the Seton Hall game, if it wasn't the worst offensively efficient game since that first season on top of a very bad BE season start, then yeah, it's easy to dismiss. It's time to quit talking though, and start showing. Xavier is a huge game.
I wonder if cheeks son thinks it's creepy that his old ass dad posts so much on an MU board. Arguing with kids his sons age. Dude needs another hobby. Definition of creepy dad.
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 12, 2020, 10:06:00 AM
It would be easier to believe you if you hadn't pulled the same thing before.
I'm just curious. At what point do you give up on the wojo era, what would it take? For me I see a guy who is in over his head. Maybe he turns it around, I would love to be wrong. Middle of the big east and missing ncaa or losing first round are not good enough for me.
I don't really give a damn....you guys said I was Billy, you were wrong. You said I was Warrior dad, you were wrong. You say I am WhaoJoe, you are wrong. You said same thing about probably 10 other people. It mostly makes me laugh, but when the smart ones fall for it I just feel sad and trying to warn you the trap you are falling into....but whatever.
I'll give up on the Wojo era when I don't see progress and instead see REGRESSION and REGRESSION for a period of time. I don't know why this is hard. I really don't.
We have improved nearly every year he has been here...wins, recruiting, conference finish, etc. This year is far far far from over. Great class coming in next year. I find it mindboggling that people actually thought we were going to win yesterday's game nor will most teams at Seton Hall. They are a top 15 team for a reason and it was at their place....YET...we have some people who were cool last weekend and suddenly walking over a cliff this weekend.
Take the emotion out of it....take the 1970's out of it.
Secondly, this absolute bullshat from some people here keep pining how we are this great program, fully committed and a great coach is just waiting to come in. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. It hasn't happened in decades here an isn't starting when Wojo leaves. WHICH MEANS...it's another assistant, another roll of the dice, another "let's hope it works". That's why. Until I see regression (meaning that recruiting is hurt, our ratings plummet which is tied to wins and losses) then I'm all in....because the dreamy alternative unicorn that people pretend exists waiting in the wings...doesn't....at least not one they can slam dunk says will be better....which means 5 more years....and guess what, if that guy does well....he leaves. We aren't that kind of program to draw that unicorn and haven't been in half a century. THAT'S WHY!
Some of you want to rinse, repeat the same thing over and over again. Ironic as hell...Kevin Willard....read the comments on this board about Kevin Willard by the geniuses here at Scoop from a couple of years ago. Guess what, Seton Hall stuck with him.
This is not a complicated analysis. MU has simply not played to its talent in conference play. There's a lot of b-ball to play and I hope that changes. But anyone who purports that it will change is relying on hope, not on results.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
I don't really give a damn....you guys said I was Billy, you were wrong. You said I was Warrior dad, you were wrong. You say I am WhaoJoe, you are wrong. You said same thing about probably 10 other people. It mostly makes me laugh, but when the smart ones fall for it I just feel sad and trying to warn you the trap you are falling into....but whatever.
This reminds me of one of the better, more underrated internet videos of all time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yurU4YieBq4
Can you do a video to prove the haters wrong Chicos?
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
I don't really give a damn....you guys said I was Billy, you were wrong. You said I was Warrior dad, you were wrong. You say I am WhaoJoe, you are wrong. You said same thing about probably 10 other people. It mostly makes me laugh, but when the smart ones fall for it I just feel sad and trying to warn you the trap you are falling into....but whatever.
I'll give up on the Wojo era when I don't see progress and instead see REGRESSION and REGRESSION for a period of time. I don't know why this is hard. I really don't.
We have improved nearly every year he has been here...wins, recruiting, conference finish, etc. This year is far far far from over. Great class coming in next year. I find it mindboggling that people actually thought we were going to win yesterday's game nor will most teams at Seton Hall. They are a top 15 team for a reason and it was at their place....YET...we have some people who were cool last weekend and suddenly walking over a cliff this weekend.
Take the emotion out of it....take the 1970's out of it. Secondly, this absolute bullshat from some people here how we are this great program, fully committed and a great coach is just waiting to come in. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. It hasn't happened in decades here an isn't starting when Wojo leaves. WHICH MEANS...it's another assistant, another roll of the dice, another let's hope it works. That's why. Until I see regression (meaning that recruiting is hurt, our ratings plummet which is tie to wins and losses) then I'm all in....because the dreamy alternative unicorn that people pretend exists...doesn't....at least not one they can slam dunk says will be better. We aren't that kind of program to draw that unicorn.
Fair enough. I disagree with you on the type of program MU is and should be. You are settling and selling it short. I saw regression at the end of last year and this year including the Hauser fiasco. Like it or not that's on wojo. I have not seen much progression for my liking after 5 years.
Quote from: Babybluejeans on January 12, 2020, 11:37:26 AM
This is not a complicated analysis. MU has simply not played to its talent in conference play. There's a lot of b-ball to play and I hope that changes. But anyone who purports that it will change is relying on hope, not on results.
But but but but some posters here say we have no talent and have only 1 high major player. So which is it? Whom to believe....you say we have higher talent level. Other posters say we have low talent level. So confusing.
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2020, 11:47:49 AM
This reminds me of one of the better, more underrated internet videos of all time.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yurU4YieBq4
Can you do a video to prove the haters wrong Chicos?
Thank you for this. Never have seen this. Epic. Chicos...please do one of these!
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 10:00:01 AM
The 7 games under .500 is bullshat. The first year is what that entire record is about in a rebuild.
Ok, so being 3 over .500 after starting 4-14 is good enough?
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
I don't really give a damn....you guys said I was Billy, you were wrong. You said I was Warrior dad, you were wrong. You say I am WhaoJoe, you are wrong. You said same thing about probably 10 other people. It mostly makes me laugh, but when the smart ones fall for it I just feel sad and trying to warn you the trap you are falling into....but whatever.
You gotta admit you bring a lot of this on yourself too. Between the hoopaloop thing and multiple account names people will wonder. I figured those other guys were their own selves but who knows if they are iterations of other banned posters too. Besides, you spend perhaps a slightly unhealthy amount of time arguing on a MUBB message board, seemingly far more time than one can spend actually watching MUBB.
QuoteI'll give up on the Wojo era when I don't see progress and instead see REGRESSION and REGRESSION for a period of time. I don't know why this is hard. I really don't.
Your take on this is as subjective as everyone else's. You could look at bartorvik team history and say we peaked in 2017, you could say we regressed this year to last, you could say we regressed the last 10 conference games. I dont care what your criteria are, just saying it is subjective for you too.
QuoteI find it mindboggling that people actually thought we were going to win yesterday's game nor will most teams at Seton Hall.
This is one of those short term expectations and long term expectations things. I definitely didnt expect a win yesterday. But 4 years ago had you asked if in year 6 we should win a tough road game to keep ourselves in the conference title hunt I would say absolutely.
QuoteTake the emotion out of it....take the 1970's out of it. Secondly, this absolute bullshat from some people here how we are this great program, fully committed and a great coach is just waiting to come in
This is where you lose not only the extreme fans but the average fans. I wasn't alive in the 70s, but at almost every point in my life we have been better than where we are today. No it's not the 70s, but 2003, 2008, 2013 all seem so far away.
Quote from: jonny09 on January 12, 2020, 10:41:51 AM
I wonder if cheeks son thinks it's creepy that his old ass dad posts so much on an MU board. Arguing with kids his sons age. Dude needs another hobby. Definition of creepy dad.
I thought it was kind of creepy that someone would go into yesterday's Chat as faux Cheeks.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-11/17/19/enhanced/webdr10/anigif_enhanced-553-1416271278-2.gif)
Quote from: SaveOD238 on January 12, 2020, 09:33:02 AM
I definitely wouldn't put H2 vs Nova in the bad category. Our offense was very quiet for much of that half, but I think the defense was really impressive. If you go 10 minutes scoring less than 10 points, you're likely to blow a big lead. We didnt, because the defense was excellent too.
To a lesser degree the same could be said of H2 vs Seton Hall. Ok defense, bad offense. The wheels just came off after the Koby missed dunk and missed FTs.
When have we been "bad"? The whole Creighton game and the last 10 minutes of Seton Hall.
What was the scoring drought in the second half against Nova? Didn't we only score 5 points in the first 12 minutes? And I think a 7-8 minute stretch with no points score? That's bad basketball to me. Plus, while I do think our defense was pretty good, I also think we got a little lucky and Nova missed some shots they would normally make. I want to say they shot 10% or something like that from 3 in the second half. Some of that is defense, but some of that has to just be luck on our part.
Quote from: skianth16 on January 12, 2020, 02:14:29 PM
What was the scoring drought in the second half against Nova? Didn't we only score 5 points in the first 12 minutes? And I think a 7-8 minute stretch with no points score? That's bad basketball to me. Plus, while I do think our defense was pretty good, I also think we got a little lucky and Nova missed some shots they would normally make. I want to say they shot 10% or something like that from 3 in the second half. Some of that is defense, but some of that has to just be luck on our part.
We missed a lot of shots we normally make in that half. And in the 2nd half yesterday. Were we just unlucky?
Quote from: BM1090 on January 12, 2020, 02:21:30 PM
We missed a lot of shots we normally make in that half. And in the 2nd half yesterday. Were we just unlucky?
A little bit. But we still finished both of those games a couple made shots off of our season averages for shooting. We weren't as far off our averages as Nova was.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 11:36:29 AM
I don't really give a damn....you guys said I was Billy, you were wrong. You said I was Warrior dad, you were wrong. You say I am WhaoJoe, you are wrong. You said same thing about probably 10 other people. It mostly makes me laugh, but when the smart ones fall for it I just feel sad and trying to warn you the trap you are falling into....but whatever.
I'll give up on the Wojo era when I don't see progress and instead see REGRESSION and REGRESSION for a period of time. I don't know why this is hard. I really don't.
We have improved nearly every year he has been here...wins, recruiting, conference finish, etc. This year is far far far from over. Great class coming in next year. I find it mindboggling that people actually thought we were going to win yesterday's game nor will most teams at Seton Hall. They are a top 15 team for a reason and it was at their place....YET...we have some people who were cool last weekend and suddenly walking over a cliff this weekend.
Take the emotion out of it....take the 1970's out of it.
Secondly, this absolute bullshat from some people here keep pining how we are this great program, fully committed and a great coach is just waiting to come in. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. BULLSHAT. It hasn't happened in decades here an isn't starting when Wojo leaves. WHICH MEANS...it's another assistant, another roll of the dice, another "let's hope it works". That's why. Until I see regression (meaning that recruiting is hurt, our ratings plummet which is tied to wins and losses) then I'm all in....because the dreamy alternative unicorn that people pretend exists waiting in the wings...doesn't....at least not one they can slam dunk says will be better....which means 5 more years....and guess what, if that guy does well....he leaves. We aren't that kind of program to draw that unicorn and haven't been in half a century. THAT'S WHY!
Some of you want to rinse, repeat the same thing over and over again. Ironic as hell...Kevin Willard....read the comments on this board about Kevin Willard by the geniuses here at Scoop from a couple of years ago. Guess what, Seton Hall stuck with him.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/c5dd72c7443a2d62ceb22c4e4c672f4c/tenor.gif?itemid=9536199)
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 12, 2020, 11:49:01 AM
Fair enough. I disagree with you on the type of program MU is and should be. You are settling and selling it short. I saw regression at the end of last year and this year including the Hauser fiasco. Like it or not that's on wojo. I have not seen much progression for my liking after 5 years.
Year one rebuild 13-19. 9th in Big East
Year two 20-13. Improvement. 7th in Big East
Year three NCAA. 3rd in Big East. Lost to Final Four participant South Carolina
Year four NIT with two wins, lost to NIT champ.
Year five NCAA and finished second in Big East.
I'd say that is progression under almost any definition out there.
Year 6...in progress. Landed best recruiting class in years
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 12, 2020, 01:01:26 PM
I thought it was kind of creepy that someone would go into yesterday's Chat as faux Cheeks.
(https://img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2014-11/17/19/enhanced/webdr10/anigif_enhanced-553-1416271278-2.gif)
They did? LOL. Not surprising. Occupying the space between the ears of a lot of peeps here.
:-[
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:03:58 PM
Year one rebuild 13-19. 9th in Big East
Year two 20-13. Improvement. 7th in Big East
Year three NCAA. 3rd in Big East. Lost to Final Four participant South Carolina
Year four NIT with two wins, lost to NIT champ.
Year five NCAA and finished second in Big East.
I'd say that is progression under almost any definition out there.
Year 6...in progress. Landed best recruiting class in years
I said for my liking but whatever. Up and down mediocre results at best. The end of last year is a down for me
Quote from: hairy worthen on January 12, 2020, 04:12:59 PM
:-[I said for my liking but whatever. Up and down mediocre results at best. The end of last year is a down for me
You don't understand the definition of mediocre then...in my opinion. Mediocre is not even making the NIt, like we did Buzz's last year. That's mediocre.
As for my expectation, I have big expectations....higher than most here....because I want to win and graduate players and do it with high ethics. Some just want to win, ethics be damned.
You asked what it would take for me to not be on board, I think I showed the progress made and that's what I am talking about. We start going the other way for a period of time, then that's a different story.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:03:58 PM
Year one rebuild 13-19. 9th in Big East
Year two 20-13. Improvement. 7th in Big East
Year three NCAA. 3rd in Big East. Lost to Final Four participant South Carolina
Year four NIT with two wins, lost to NIT champ.
Year five NCAA and finished second in Big East.
I'd say that is progression under almost any definition out there.
Year 6...in progress. Landed best recruiting class in years
Wojo's banners...
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
You don't understand the definition of mediocre then...in my opinion. Mediocre is not even making the NIt, like we did Buzz's last year. That's mediocre.
Depends on the program. For a school like Marquette, being relegated to the NIT is a failure. With our budget and resources, it's tournament or bust every single year. Mid and low major schools who play in one bid leagues can satisfy themselves with NIT appearances. MU doesn't charter flights to games and play in an NBA arena and pay its coach $2 million per year in the hopes of making the NIT.
If the current admin believes the NIT is adequate, they should hire Brian Wardle, build a 10,000 seat arena on campus, and get rid of that private jet. Until they do, the NCAAT is and always will be the standard.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
You don't understand the definition of mediocre then...in my opinion. Mediocre is not even making the NIt, like we did Buzz's last year. That's mediocre.
As for my expectation, I have big expectations....higher than most here....because I want to win and graduate players and do it with high ethics. Some just want to win, ethics be damned.
You asked what it would take for me to not be on board, I think I showed the progress made and that's what I am talking about. We start going the other way for a period of time, then that's a different story.
Trying to defend Wojo by referencing ANYTHING Buzz did is really stupid. Just some friendly advice.
Quote from: NickelDimer on January 12, 2020, 04:36:03 PM
Trying to defend Wojo by referencing ANYTHING Buzz did is really stupid. Just some friendly advice.
Why....he coached in this same Big East version that Wojo has....how did he do?
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
As for my expectation, I have big expectations....higher than most here....because I want to win and graduate players and do it with high ethics. Some just want to win, ethics be damned.
There's something very trumpy about this
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
Why....he coached in this same Big East version that Wojo has....how did he do?
This is dumb. 5/6 buzz years he out performed all of Wojo's 5 years. He had one bad year (made nit, declined BTW) and all you can do is talk about year 6.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 12, 2020, 04:31:34 PM
Depends on the program. For a school like Marquette, being relegated to the NIT is a failure. With our budget and resources, it's tournament or bust every single year. Mid and low major schools who play in one bid leagues can satisfy themselves with NIT appearances. MU doesn't charter flights to games and play in an NBA arena and pay its coach $2 million per year in the hopes of making the NIT.
If the current admin believes the NIT is adequate, they should hire Brian Wardle, build a 10,000 seat arena on campus, and get rid of that private jet. Until they do, the NCAAT is and always will be the standard.
Find a new team to cheer for. I showed all of you the other day how few teams have made the tournament every year just for 10 years...what was it...7 teams. And NONE of them are in MU's sphere. So if that is the expectation, you guys will be perpetually miserable.
I don't think anyone is advocating for the NIT...that's Mike Deaneesque. That said, we won't make the NCAAs every year nor is that realistic by any stretch of the imagination. An NIT once every 4 or 5 years is going to be the likely norm.
But here's the thing....it doesn't matter with some of the people here. We make a NCAA and lose...."it's how we lost or how much we lost by"....which is a load of crap. If we lost by 7, they would still bitch. Same fans when we steamroll #1 Kentucky to go to the Final Four still bitching about the fact we got blown out in the Final Four. Just how some people are.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:16:04 PM
As for my expectation, I have big expectations....higher than most here....because I want to win and graduate players and do it with high ethics. Some just want to win, ethics be damned
We are not worthy. LOL.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:37:44 PM
Why....he coached in this same Big East version that Wojo has....how did he do?
There's really no comparison. Buzz is a far, far superior coach and had far, far superior results to back it up. But I know that you know that. Take or leave my advice. It was given genuinely though.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
Find a new team to cheer for. I showed all of you the other day how few teams have made the tournament every year just for 10 years...what was it...7 teams. And NONE of them are in MU's sphere. So if that is the expectation, you guys will be perpetually miserable.
I don't think anyone is advocating for the NIT...that's Mike Deaneesque. That said, we won't make the NCAAs every year nor is that realistic by any stretch of the imagination. An NIT once every 4 or 5 years is going to be the likely norm.
But here's the thing....it doesn't matter with some of the people here. We make a NCAA and lose...."it's how we lost or how much we lost by"....which is a load of crap. If we lost by 7, they would still bitch. Same fans when we steamroll #1 Kentucky to go to the Final Four still bitching about the fact we got blown out in the Final Four. Just how some people are.
Another argument you get stuck on. No one is saying they have to make it year after year for 20 straight years. They are saying the expectation is to make it every year and compete. Ie make it year 1 2 and 3. Bad year 4 oh well. Crap happens. But if you miss it 1,2,3,5,7. We have issues.
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 12, 2020, 04:41:26 PM
This is dumb. 5/6 buzz years he out performed all of Wojo's 5 years. He had one bad year (made nit, declined BTW) and all you can do is talk about year 6.
He did not decline it...stop lying about that. We never got a bid.
I'm comparing apples to apples. Look, Buzz is a very good coach, he also got us some great press we never wanted, his last year was a mess and he left that team to a rookie coach.
Those are all facts. What is also a fact is the one year Buzz coached in THIS Big East he did not do well, especially picked to win the Big East.
Now, we have a different coach, has made progress over the five years, this year a long way to go and best recruits in a long time coming in....but some of you love to be miserable and think a unicorn is arriving. Ahh, the unicorn.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:52:31 PM
He did not decline it...stop lying about that. We never got a bid.
I'm comparing apples to apples. Look, Buzz is a very good coach, he also got us some great press we never wanted, his last year was a mess and he left that team to a rookie coach.
Those are all facts. What is also a fact is the one year Buzz coached in THIS Big East he did not do well, especially picked to win the Big East.
Now, we have a different coach, has made progress over the five years, this year a long way to go and best recruits in a long time coming in....but some of you love to be miserable and think a unicorn is arriving. Ahh, the unicorn.
OK guy.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:52:31 PM
He did not decline it...stop lying about that. We never got a bid.
I'm comparing apples to apples. Look, Buzz is a very good coach, he also got us some great press we never wanted, his last year was a mess and he left that team to a rookie coach.
Those are all facts. What is also a fact is the one year Buzz coached in THIS Big East he did not do well, especially picked to win the Big East.
Now, we have a different coach, has made progress over the five years, this year a long way to go and best recruits in a long time coming in....but some of you love to be miserable and think a unicorn is arriving. Ahh, the unicorn.
The problem is the metrics you are using to compare the two coaches aren't actually relevant to true success.
So of course you're right. According to you and your own definition of positive growth.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:07:24 PM
They did? LOL. Not surprising. Occupying the space between the ears of a lot of peeps here.
Don't flatter yourself. You are a laughingstock.
Quote from: lawdog77 on January 12, 2020, 05:00:59 PM
Don't flatter yourself. You are a laughingstock.
No doubt by some, but not with others. Fine by me. Your nonsense about the Zeller situation was funny...surprisingly brought up by a former poster that had law in his name who hasn't posted in a long time.....hmm.
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 12, 2020, 04:48:55 PM
Another argument you get stuck on. No one is saying they have to make it year after year for 20 straight years. They are saying the expectation is to make it every year and compete. Ie make it year 1 2 and 3. Bad year 4 oh well. Crap happens. But if you miss it 1,2,3,5,7. We have issues.
No one....in just the last 15 minutes someone said NCAA OR BUST. So yes, in fact "no one" is false.
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2020, 04:57:31 PM
The problem is the metrics you are using to compare the two coaches aren't actually relevant to true success.
So of course you're right. According to you and your own definition of positive growth.
I'm happy to simply compare Wojo only...he has made progress in various ways each year...as already shown.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/10lnWvL6Q04pWM/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f2992c428b2116c2dffc58536bdce92338d49e901b0&rid=giphy.gif)
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:06:38 PM
I'm happy to simply compare Wojo only...he has made progress in various ways each year...as already shown.
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/10lnWvL6Q04pWM/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f2992c428b2116c2dffc58536bdce92338d49e901b0&rid=giphy.gif)
Except for winning at the end of the season....
He's been mediocre. One bad season his first year and a solid season last year, albeit absolutely choking away a BE regular season title and watching his team crumble down the stretch.
Other than that, 8-10, 10-8 and 9-9. Zero NCAA tournament wins. In what world is that progress?
Quote from: panda on January 12, 2020, 05:14:35 PM
Except for winning at the end of the season....
He's been mediocre. One bad season his first year and a solid season last year, albeit absolutely choking away a BE regular season title and watching his team crumble down the stretch.
Other than that, 8-10, 10-8 and 9-9. Zero NCAA tournament wins. In what world is that progress?
In what world are you ignoring what he started with and got better every single year sans one? More wins, higher ratings, better conference finishes, better recruiting classes, etc, etc....how is that not progressing?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/wBK3L87SIe7aE/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29df467559063a30e8917fe8332946fdb7309dcd45&rid=giphy.gif)
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:05:31 PM
No one....in just the last 15 minutes someone said NCAA OR BUST. So yes, in fact "no one" is false.
You're being purposely obtuse. I'm talking about where the program was under Crean and Buzz. 8 straight NCAATs, FF in 2003, 3 straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13, consistently ranked in the top 25. They proved that type of standard was achievable at Marquette.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
In what world are you ignoring what he started with and got better every single year sans one? More wins, higher ratings, better conference finishes, better recruiting classes, etc, etc....how is that not progressing?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/wBK3L87SIe7aE/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29df467559063a30e8917fe8332946fdb7309dcd45&rid=giphy.gif)
He went from 8-10 to 10-8 to 9-9 to 12-6. This seems consistently average to me. Improvement from 9-9 to 12-6 but you cannot ignore how his team finished this season, followed by two key players transferring out of the program. Raging success.
As someone who is familiar with celebrating mediocrity, this is totally on brand for you.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
In what world are you ignoring what he started with and got better every single year sans one? More wins, higher ratings, better conference finishes, better recruiting classes, etc, etc....how is that not progressing?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/wBK3L87SIe7aE/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29df467559063a30e8917fe8332946fdb7309dcd45&rid=giphy.gif)
Dude, you destroy virtually every thread. Go spend time with your family.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 12, 2020, 05:27:13 PM
You're being purposely obtuse. I'm talking about where the program was under Crean and Buzz. 8 straight NCAATs, FF in 2003, 3 straight Sweet 16s from 2011-13, consistently ranked in the top 25. They proved that type of standard was achievable at Marquette.
Yup, 8 straight NCAAs....8 out of 10....or the same as 4 out of 5 which I have ALSO said is doable and achievable.
We are currently 2 out of 3. If we make it this year, that would mean 3 out of 4. Hmmm.
Yes, 3 straight Sweet @6's including a miracle gift (glad we were gifted it)...but that's part of the crapshoot that is the NCAAs. Anything can happen...we had situations where we advanced, situations where we gagged against Washington after a huge lead, situations where we over performed and some we underperformed.
I'm going to keep cheering for this team in the hope we get another shot at it. Others, well they hope we lose so they can chase a unicorn. Have at it.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:03:13 PM
No doubt by some, but not with others. Fine by me. Your nonsense about the Zeller situation was funny...surprisingly brought up by a former poster that had law in his name who hasn't posted in a long time.....hmm.
Now you are going to start claiming people are who they are not...good for you. You still have not convinced me on the Zeller/Crean situation, but I said I was done.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 04:43:06 PM
I showed all of you the other day how few teams have made the tournament every year just for 10 years...what was it...7 teams. And NONE of them are in MU's sphere.
They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic...
(https://www.broadstreetreview.com/images/uploads/posts/_framed/D1EddEaw-768-515.jpg)
Quote from: lawdog77 on January 12, 2020, 05:40:02 PM
Now you are going to start claiming people are who they are not...good for you. You still have not convinced me on the Zeller/Crean situation, but I said I was done.
Then be done
Quote from: Mutaman on January 12, 2020, 05:49:55 PM
They laughed at me and made jokes but I proved beyond the shadow of a doubt and with... geometric logic...
(https://www.broadstreetreview.com/images/uploads/posts/_framed/D1EddEaw-768-515.jpg)
Hey it's the Badger liar caught on multiple Badger boards after denying being a Badger fan...and doing what he does there, here....calling people racists, etc. Exposed.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:39:18 PM
I'm going to keep cheering for this team in the hope we get another shot at it. Others, well they hope we lose so they can chase a unicorn. Have at it.
Umm, ok. You're a weird dude. "Unicorn"?
Most MU fans are not happy with Wojo. That's it in a nutshell. He's not as good as previous coaches. Most everyone thinks MU spends enough money on the program to expect more than what Wojo has delivered.
You, MU fan or not, are very happy with Wojo. Good for you. Sorry MU fans don't agree with you. If you don't like MU fans and their view of Wojo, sorry. Go find another team.
Quote from: WhiteTrash on January 12, 2020, 06:37:49 PM
Umm, ok. You're a weird dude. "Unicorn"?
Most MU fans are not happy with Wojo. That's it in a nutshell. He's not as good as previous coaches. Most everyone thinks MU spends enough money on the program to expect more than what Wojo has delivered.
You, MU fan or not, are very happy with Wojo. Good for you. Sorry MU fans don't agree with you. If you don't like MU fans and their view of Wojo, sorry. Go find another team.
Most MU fans are unhappy...speaking for you and your circle of friends. That's odd...that's sort of like my conservative friends weren't happy with the previous POTUS...confirmation bias.
Do you have a poll or something that proves your point? Nope. Just your opinion like I have my own opinion.
Just wait until he goes away and we land that unicorn you think we deserve...and when we don't...well you can show them how smart you were.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:39:18 PM
Yup, 8 straight NCAAs....8 out of 10....or the same as 4 out of 5 which I have ALSO said is doable and achievable.
We are currently 2 out of 3. If we make it this year, that would mean 3 out of 4. Hmmm.
Yes, 3 straight Sweet @6's including a miracle gift (glad we were gifted it)...but that's part of the crapshoot that is the NCAAs. Anything can happen...we had situations where we advanced, situations where we gagged against Washington after a huge lead, situations where we over performed and some we underperformed.
I'm going to keep cheering for this team in the hope we get another shot at it. Others, well they hope we lose so they can chase a unicorn. Have at it.
What's with this "unicorn" business all of a sudden? Okay, Al was a unicorn, I'll give you that. But Marquette fans aren't expecting another Al to walk through that door. Crean and Buzz weren't unicorns. They were just guys who delivered results quickly in a results-based business at a job where expectations are high. A coach doesn't need to be a "unicorn" to have success at Marquette.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on January 12, 2020, 07:06:19 PM
What's with this "unicorn" business all of a sudden? Okay, Al was a unicorn, I'll give you that. But Marquette fans aren't expecting another Al to walk through that door. Crean and Buzz weren't unicorns. They were just guys who delivered results quickly in a results-based business at a job where expectations are high. A coach doesn't need to be a "unicorn" to have success at Marquette.
Lol. Have you seen some of the names thrown around here? Delusional.
By the way, some of our other hires
Mike Deane
Tom Crean half this board wanted out
Kevin O'Neill would have been run out of here
Bob Dukiet
Hank Raymond
These are our hires....that's my point. You have a guy that has gone 2 of the last 3 years to the NCAA ...has a solid chance of making it this year...great class coming in, and you guys cannot wait to roll the dice again and if the new guy does well he leaves anyway or if he doesn't do quite as well our fans will push him away anyway.
Quote from: Cheeks on January 12, 2020, 05:23:34 PM
In what world are you ignoring what he started with and got better every single year sans one? More wins, higher ratings, better conference finishes, better recruiting classes, etc, etc....how is that not progressing?
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/wBK3L87SIe7aE/giphy.gif?cid=4d1e4f29df467559063a30e8917fe8332946fdb7309dcd45&rid=giphy.gif)
Home movies on an MU message board? The end is indeed near.
Bedder dan watchin' dawgs doin' panda style, aina?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 12, 2020, 07:44:40 PM
Bedder dan watchin' dawgs doin' panda style, aina?
Once in a blue moon you're pretty funny lmao
Quote from: #UnleashHoward40shots on January 12, 2020, 04:41:26 PM
This is dumb. 5/6 buzz years he out performed all of Wojo's 5 years. He had one bad year (made nit, declined BTW) and all you can do is talk about year 6.
I agree it's stupid to compare the two, but 2010 wasn't better than last year. 6 seed and first round exit < 5 seed and first round exit.
4/6. 3/6 if it wasn't for the 2011 S16 run but those 2 wins can't be taken away so 4/6 it is.
Quote from: BM1090 on January 13, 2020, 12:06:59 AM
I agree it's stupid to compare the two, but 2010 wasn't better than last year. 6 seed and first round exit < 5 seed and first round exit.
4/6. 3/6 if it wasn't for the 2011 S16 run but those 2 wins can't be taken away so 4/6 it is.
2010 was an unexpected thrill ride with players playing drastically out of position gutting out wins all year with a last second buzzer beater loss to a major conference team in the tourney.
Last year was a dumpster fire ending with blown opportunity after blown opportunity capped off by an embarrassing whimper of a defeat to a mid-major.
The two are not the same, and one was clearly superior.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 12, 2020, 09:23:04 PM
Once in a blue moon you're pretty funny lmao
Agreed. This had me rollin. Great work doc
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 13, 2020, 08:31:03 AM
2010 was an unexpected thrill ride with players playing drastically out of position gutting out wins all year with a last second buzzer beater loss to a major conference team in the tourney.
Last year was a dumpster fire ending with blown opportunity after blown opportunity capped off by an embarrassing whimper of a defeat to a mid-major.
The two are not the same, and one was clearly superior.
If you analyze the results and not the journey, last year was superior.