MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NYWarrior on April 03, 2019, 03:15:55 PM
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off to Penn State, it would seem
https://twitter.com/BlakeDuDonis/status/1113526513666854912
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Bad, bad look for MU. Jeez.
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Unfortunately, the Big East is very much a mid-major conference in the women's game.
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Agreed. Wow, you make a great hire with a young alum from the program and can't keep her?? Yikes. Things that make you go, hmmmmm?
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Given what she built up and the athletes she is losing, this is gettin' out while the gettin's good.
Seems like a sound career move on her part, and I wish her well.
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damn but Rjax I think puts it best there's only one consistently top program in the BE till Kieger got us there and thats Depaul. Likely will run the conference now for quite some time
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Agreed. Wow, you make a great hire with a young alum from the program and can't keep her?? Yikes. Things that make you go, hmmmmm?
Not really. The program is bound to take a step back in the next couple of years with the seniors who are leaving. The fact that someone is an alum is nice, but in the end many young coaches with aspirations to coach at the highest levels are going to make the same choice.
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Scott Merritt .. next MUWBB coach!
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Skeete or Merritt, your table is ready. I would go with Vernette.
This will be Scholl's first head coach hire in any sport as AD, I believe.
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Unfortunately, the Big East is very much a mid-major conference in the women's game.
I also look at the lack of fan support at MU - the attendance this year was very disappointing.
I could care less if the next coach has any prior ties to Marquette - I just want a good coach.
As others have said, this is a good time for Kieger to move on if she was going to. I’m sad to see her go but wish her the best in the future.
Now to see what happens with their 8 frosh especially local highly rated recruit Shemera Williams. When Kieger first got here, all 4 of Mitchell’s incoming recruits stayed but then 3 of the 4 left after their frosh year.
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Scott Merritt .. next MUWBB coach!
This post reminds me that Kieger was the only female coach in the Big East thie last couple seasons.
Former Marquette assistant Jennie Baranczyk has done a great job at Drake and I’d love for them to consider her. But she’s coaching in her hometown now and May have no interest in leaving Drake.
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Bring on Thad Matta! (sorry, wrong thread).
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I also look at the lack of fan support at MU - the attendance this year was very disappointing.
I could care less if the next coach has any prior ties to Marquette - I just want a good coach.
As others have said, this is a good time for Kieger to move on if she was going to. I’m sad to see her go but wish her the best in the future.
That certainly could have played a part. But, I think the conference issue is the big problem. It is so difficult for MU or DePaul to get a top 4 tourney seed (even with a gaudy conference record).
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What a gut punch. Thought for sure Kieger was a lifer here, especially given her alumna status.
This should be pinned for everyone shouting for Warde to be next men's basketball coach. When bigger schools offer bigger paychecks, coaches inevitably follow the money.
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I also look at the lack of fan support at MU - the attendance this year was very disappointing.
I could care less if the next coach has any prior ties to Marquette - I just want a good coach.
As others have said, this is a good time for Kieger to move on if she was going to. I’m sad to see her go but wish her the best in the future.
Now to see what happens with their 8 frosh especially local highly rated recruit Shemera Williams. When Kieger first got here, all 4 of Mitchell’s incoming recruits stayed but then 3 of the 4 left after their frosh year.
My guess is she's getting a BIG raise. Probably to mid six-figures.
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What a gut punch. Thought for sure Kieger was a lifer here, especially given her alumna status.
This should be pinned for everyone shouting for Warde to be next men's basketball coach. When bigger schools offer bigger paychecks, coaches inevitably follow the money.
It's about PSU being a better job, not a bigger school.
Kieger is 35 & has a high ceiling as a coach. Go make it happen, coach!
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You've all raised very good points. Tough to begrudge her under the circumstances. Best of luck to her.
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My guess is she's getting a BIG raise. Probably to mid six-figures.
Terri was getting over $500k
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If true, it would imply that she felt she reached her ceiling here. I wonder if things would’ve been different if we had made a deep run. Might that have led her (and the and MU administration) to believe we could take a step to the next level?
In any event, I will wish her the best if the rumor is true.
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That would be unfortunate. It was unusual to have such unbalanced recruiting classes. But as others have mentioned there is a big drop off after Marquette and DePaul in the Big East.
Kieger would be replacing Coquese Washington, a former ND player, ND Law grad and long time assistant (on national title team) that made the NCAA’s 4 times in 12 seasons, including a couple of sweet 16’s but just one winning season in the last 5.
Prior to that, Rene Portland was there 27 years. She made 8 sweet 16’s, 2 elite 8’s and a Final Four. She resigned because of her long time policy anti-gay/lesbian disciminatory policies. For many years prior to that people looked the other way.
Penn St. has some extremely successful women’s sports programs with recent national titles in womens soccer and womens volleyball. Lots of opportunity to build something big there.
Doug Bruno the highly respected DePaul women’s coach has made 4 sweet 16’s in 33 seasons building DePaul into a very respectable program. He’s been recruiting more in the Stl area lately, and throughout the Midwest.
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Good luck to her. Penn State has a real nice campus and a viral fanbase that follows all sports.
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That would be unfortunate. It was unusual to have such unbalanced recruiting classes. But as others have mentioned there is a big drop off after Marquette and DePaul in the Big East.
I was concerned about having 8 players in the 19-20 class just as she had 8 players in the senior class originally. But I think the class will probably go down a bit now :(.
I can't begrudge her at all for leaving though - the Big 10 is a much better conference for Women's Basketball than the Big East. I wish her well but am worrying a lot about who they will get to replace her and the incoming recruits and possible transfers.
Marquette has nice things to say as Kieger leaves:
https://gomarquette.com/news/2019/4/3/womens-basketball-carolyn-kieger-departing-marquette-for-penn-state.aspx?path=wbball
Penn State announcement:
https://gopsusports.com/news/2019/4/3/kieger-named-penn-state-womens-basketball-head-coach.aspx
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This post reminds me that Kieger was the only female coach in the Big East thie last couple seasons.
Former Marquette assistant Jennie Baranczyk has done a great job at Drake and I’d love for them to consider her. But she’s coaching in her hometown now and May have no interest in leaving Drake.
Arbys
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HiroSHEma
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#WojoToMUWBB
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She’s no Buzz.
Been announced for a couple hours and still hasn’t updated her social media graphics.
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I mean...and I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone that follows the MU women's program a lot closer than I do...but, isn't it fair to ask, that given the last two teams she had were probably the best teams in MU's program history(correct me if I'm wrong), and with an incredibly talented and experienced teams like she had these last two years shouldn't she have made at least one Sweet 16?? I know she built the program up tremendously from where it was, and she deserves a lot of credit for that... a lot. But, if they couldn't get to at least one Sweet 16 the last two years with all that talent and experience, when will they ever?? I guess what I'm asking is..weren't her tournament results relatively disappointing considering how talented they were the last two years??
I know they lost Davenport this year and that hurt, and I know McCray was unable to play and had she been able to they may have been Final Four good, but even without those two, weren't they good enough to make at least one Sweet 16 the last couple of years??
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That was the team goal. It's harder in the women's game if you are not a top 16 seed as your 2nd round game will be a true road game.
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I mean...and I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone that follows the MU women's program a lot closer than I do...but, isn't it fair to ask, that given the last two teams she had were probably the best teams in MU's program history(correct me if I'm wrong), and with an incredibly talented and experienced teams like she had these last two years shouldn't she have made at least one Sweet 16?? I know she built the program up tremendously from where it was, and she deserves a lot of credit for that... a lot. But, if they couldn't get to at least one Sweet 16 the last two years with all that talent and experience, when will they ever?? I guess what I'm asking is..weren't her tournament results relatively disappointing considering how talented they were the last two years??
I know they lost Davenport this year and that hurt, and I know McCray was unable to play and had she been able to they may have been Final Four good, but even without those two, weren't they good enough to make at least one Sweet 16 the last couple of years??
You really have to crap on everything, don't you?
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56410992_10156885443906047_2012103731914473472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=82867ecbffb6c83bfd1b58663fed1b14&oe=5D040D1E)
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Marquette's top recruit Shemera Williams announced tonight she's reopening her recruitment - Marquette is still technically in the mix but not sure what the chances are she'll still come to MU:
https://twitter.com/_Swilliams10/status/1113633748082483201
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You really have to crap on everything, don't you?
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56410992_10156885443906047_2012103731914473472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=82867ecbffb6c83bfd1b58663fed1b14&oe=5D040D1E)
I'm asking an honest question that I truly don't know the answer to. I don't follow the women's team more than casually at best. I apologize that you took offense to it..that was not my intent, at all.
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I mean...and I don't mean to be disrespectful to anyone that follows the MU women's program a lot closer than I do...but, isn't it fair to ask, that given the last two teams she had were probably the best teams in MU's program history(correct me if I'm wrong), and with an incredibly talented and experienced teams like she had these last two years shouldn't she have made at least one Sweet 16?? I know she built the program up tremendously from where it was, and she deserves a lot of credit for that... a lot. But, if they couldn't get to at least one Sweet 16 the last two years with all that talent and experience, when will they ever?? I guess what I'm asking is..weren't her tournament results relatively disappointing considering how talented they were the last two years??
I know they lost Davenport this year and that hurt, and I know McCray was unable to play and had she been able to they may have been Final Four good, but even without those two, weren't they good enough to make at least one Sweet 16 the last couple of years??
It is absolute shocker that this is your POV
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We rip Buzz for leaving the cupboard bare when he left but Kieger is leaving the program with 8 recruits for next season that now may or may not come.
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You really have to crap on everything, don't you?
(https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56410992_10156885443906047_2012103731914473472_n.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=82867ecbffb6c83bfd1b58663fed1b14&oe=5D040D1E)
Usually I would be against congratulating and thanking a departing coach, but the dynamics of women’s college hoops allows it. Penn State is a next-level opportunity when it comes to women’s basketball. Not sure that playing field will ever be level.
A friend’s daughter recently starred for Grant HS here in suburban Illinois, so I attended many games. The talent gap from the top teams to the next lower level is a giant chasm. That recruiting pool feeds the NCAA talent disparity. The financial need to create true tournament home teams doesn’t help break the oligarchy. It’s getting better than it was. Pat Summit, Muff McGraw, and Geno Aurriema are all decent coaches, but they were/are playing with a stacked deck. Aurriema is a class A prick as well, and I heard stories about him long before he dissed the Catholic 7.
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She got good coin to make the move. Happy for her.
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You really have to crap on everything, don't you?
We all know how close you were with Coach Peters . How many games did you attend to cheer her on?
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Usually I would be against congratulating and thanking a departing coach, but the dynamics of women’s college hoops allows it. Penn State is a next-level opportunity when it comes to women’s basketball. Not sure that playing field will ever be level.
A friend’s daughter recently starred for Grant HS here in suburban Illinois, so I attended many games. The talent gap from the top teams to the next lower level is a giant chasm. That recruiting pool feeds the NCAA talent disparity. The financial need to create true tournament home teams doesn’t help break the oligarchy. It’s getting better than it was. Pat Summit, Muff McGraw, and Geno Aurriema are all decent coaches, but they were/are playing with a stacked deck. Aurriema is a class A prick as well, and I heard stories about him long before he dissed the Catholic 7.
What did he say about the C7?
Edit: nevermind I found it.
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We all know how close you were with Coach Peters . How many games did you attend to cheer her on?
It must be killing you that it's the last time you will be able to use that joke.
At least my gaffe was an honest mistake, unlike, you know, plagiarism...
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We rip Buzz for leaving the cupboard bare when he left but Kieger is leaving the program with 8 recruits for next season that now may or may not come.
Buzz took the men's program for everything he could get, including money and power. He bailed for a lesser program as soon as it stopped working for him, and on his way out he tried to take everything he could with him (recruits, intel on prospects, etc.)
Coach Kieger, on the other hand, elevated the women's program to a new level with little, if any, personal fanfare. Her achievements were noticed by a program that is at an even higher level, and they offered her a job that is indisputably a step up. Good for her. I wish her the best.
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We rip Buzz for leaving the cupboard bare when he left but Kieger is leaving the program with 8 recruits for next season that now may or may not come.
Isn't this more on Mitchell? She was the one who initially unbalanced the classes.
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Marquette's top recruit Shemera Williams announced tonight she's reopening her recruitment - Marquette is still technically in the mix but not sure what the chances are she'll still come to MU:
https://twitter.com/_Swilliams10/status/1113633748082483201
She's probably waiting to see who the new coach is. However, she goes to HS like four blocks from MU's campus. I gotta imagine MU is still VERY MUCH in the mix.
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It must be killing you that it's the last time you will be able to use that joke.
At least my gaffe was an honest mistake, unlike, you know, plagiarism...
Macho snowflake ain't gonna own up to that one
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Isn't this more on Mitchell? She was the one who initially unbalanced the classes.
Between Coach Mitchell, her leaving, decommitts and transfers all added up to the TOTAL drastic class unbalance.... ?-(
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It must be killing you that it's the last time you will be able to use that joke.
At least my gaffe was an honest mistake, unlike, you know, plagiarism...
No, your "gaffe" was because you are socially inept.
By the way, how many patents do you have?
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Keefe, how does the second paragraph relate to the first one?
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Keefe, how does the second paragraph relate to the first one?
Spoken like someone with zero patents
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Keefe, how does the second paragraph relate to the first one?
Ma Kettle made two statements.
The second is her reference to the stupid claim of plagiarism made by St Norbert's Jon.
The essence of innovation is creativity and its validation is a patent granted by the USPTO. Not only did one of our patents get identified as having "significant environmental benefit" and was therefore selected for accelerated review but we were invited to meet Pres Obama in recognition of the ingenuity we demonstrated.
We are currently deploying several of our technologies in partnership with GE.
Plagiarists tend not to develop compelling, sophisticated technologies that make a real difference in the world. But asking a relatively dull bean counter to understand how game-changing technology is developed is like asking Wojo to win a first round game in the Dance.
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So if someone has a patent, they are exempt from plagiarism? That doesn't make sense to me.
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Kieger’s interview in Marquette Wire sounded like Buzz Williams 5 years ago. Said she wanted to be where football is at, a chance to win national titles.
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Ma Kettle made two statements.
The second is her reference to the stupid claim of plagiarism made by St Norbert's Jon.
The essence of innovation is creativity and its validation is a patent granted by the USPTO. Not only did one of our patents get identified as having "significant environmental benefit" and was therefore selected for accelerated review but we were invited to meet Pres Obama in recognition of the ingenuity we demonstrated.
We are currently deploying several of our technologies in partnership with GE.
Plagiarists tend not to develop compelling, sophisticated technologies that make a real difference in the world. But asking a relatively dull bean counter to understand how game-changing technology is developed is like asking Wojo to win a first round game in the Dance.
I write and prosecute patents for a living, and this may be the oddest take on the patent process that I've seen. I have no clue about the plagiarism backstory, but I promise you that there are plenty of plagiarists developing (and patenting) sophisticated technologies. In fact, because there's $$ involved, it's often pretty prevalent. Not saying that's true at all in your case, just pointing out that it's a weird hill to stand on.
Back on point, congrats to Coach Kieger. PSU is a good women's program, and the Big Ten is certainly a step up in the women's game.
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No, your "gaffe" was because you are socially inept.
That's the funniest thing I've seen online today, especially coming from you. And that includes a post of a Marquette Parent asking who she should contact about the lack of bacon at the Commons omelet station this morning.
Social skills include avoiding behavior that identifies oneself as an a$$hole and a misogynist. The good ones are able to be a little less obvious about it.
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Too bad Coach Kieger didn't have enough confidence in her ability to recruit a championship program at good old MU. She was certainly on the right track. Guess there is no such thing as loyalty anymore, it is just follow the cash. Penn State has certainly not been a powerhouse in women's basketball, i would have loved to see her bring our program to prominence. Certainly enjoyed watching her coach.
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Too bad Coach Kieger didn't have enough confidence in her ability to recruit a championship program at good old MU. She was certainly on the right track. Guess there is no such thing as loyalty anymore, it is just follow the cash. Penn State has certainly not been a powerhouse in women's basketball, i would have loved to see her bring our program to prominence. Certainly enjoyed watching her coach.
Are you suggesting that she owes MU more loyalty because she is an alum?
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And that includes a post of a Marquette Parent asking who she should contact about the lack of bacon at the Commons omelet station this morning.
I feel like this is important enough to go straight to Lovell.
Also, the Kieger interview was a little offputting. A little surprising coming from someone who played at MU. Although I’m sure she realized that people would be having a hard time figuring out why she’s leaving her alma mater where she had success.
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I feel like this is important enough to go straight to Lovell.
If my kid was stupid enough to complain about this to me, they would have gotten a smack upside the head and the comment, "you have an effing OMELET STATION in your dorm cafeteria and you are bitching? You should have seen the gruel we were forced to eat!"
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If my kid was stupid enough to complain about this to me, they would have gotten a smack upside the head and the comment, "you have an effing OMELET STATION in your dorm cafeteria and you are bitching? You should have seen the gruel we were forced to eat!"
I ate ham and cheese omelets every morning in Mashuda. That was our only meat option and I never thought to complain.
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Penn State has certainly not been a powerhouse in women's basketball, i would have loved to see her bring our program to prominence.
Lady Lions became just the twelfth program in NCAA Division I history to reach 850 wins. Penn State has won 8 regular season Big Ten titles and the first 2 Big Ten tournament titles in 1995 and 1996. 25 NCAA Touraments and one Final Four.
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I ate ham and cheese omelets every morning in Mashuda. That was our only meat option and I never thought to complain.
Once in awhile there would be a tray of pre-made American cheese omelets, but that's about as good as it got.
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Between Coach Mitchell, her leaving, decommitts and transfers all added up to the TOTAL drastic class unbalance.... ?-(
There were only transfers that I know of when Mitchell left - 3 of the 4 recruits in her last class transferred after their freshmen year and then Kieger brought in 8 players in her first class which is now 6 as seniors. But the 8 recruits this coming year was on Kieger for being unbalanced in my opinion. She didn't recruit a lot of depth behind the current seniors but it might have been difficult to do so with not much playing time available I realize. But now there is likely not to be a class of 8 this fall anyway...
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She's probably waiting to see who the new coach is. However, she goes to HS like four blocks from MU's campus. I gotta imagine MU is still VERY MUCH in the mix.
But how much of a chance does MU have at this point - it will be awhile before they have a new coach in place and in the meantime she's talking to a lot of other schools.
And I have to wonder what other recruits have made or will make a similar decision - not all of them are going to announce this on twitter.
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Crash
I agree with chick on this one, that really is the funniest thing I read online today.
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I was at MU in the early 70’s.
Omelets? We were lucky to have powdered eggs.....
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I was at MU in the early 70’s.
Omelets? We were lucky to have powdered eggs.....
Yep, the kids today are spoiled and soft: Made to order omelets, brick pizza oven, BBQ smoker.. No wonder they expect their parents to demand answers when the ketchup dispenser is empty (another classic post).
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If I understand things right you can't officially reopen your recruitment, until you're officially released from your LOI..As far as I remember most school's whether men's or women's, will typically not give you a release until you have at least met with the new Coach..sounds reasonable..why was Scholl so quick to give Shemera one without her even meeting with Scholl at minimum?
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So Penn State's major success was 24 years ago. I admit I don't follow women's basketball as closely as men's, but I never heard them mentioned in the same breath as Tennessee, Stanford,Connecticut and Notre Dame. And yes Fluffy, I see nothing wrong with having loyalty to your Alma mater and the school that gave you your first major opportunity to coach !!
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why was Scholl so quick to give Shemera one without her even meeting with Scholl at minimum?
I think that's the new normal because ultimately you're going to release the kid if they want to be released. I think it's a show of good faith rather than strong arming the recruit. From a strategic perspective, the hope would be that the show of good faith encourages them to consider your program seriously going forward rather than just giving a courtesy meeting to get the release they want.
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So Penn State's major success was 24 years ago. I admit I don't follow women's basketball as closely as men's, but I never heard them mentioned in the same breath as Tennessee, Stanford,Connecticut and Notre Dame. And yes Fluffy, I see nothing wrong with having loyalty to your Alma mater and the school that gave you your first major opportunity to coach !!
So she should be bound to work there for the rest of her career.
In no other profession does that make sense.
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So Penn State's major success was 24 years ago. I admit I don't follow women's basketball as closely as men's, but I never heard them mentioned in the same breath as Tennessee, Stanford,Connecticut and Notre Dame.
Penn State was really good 20 years ago. The program has dropped. Hence, the coaching hire.
NCAA Tournament Final Four
2000
NCAA Tournament Elite Eight
1983, 1994, 2000, 2004
NCAA Tournament Sweet Sixteen
1982, 1983, 1985, 1986, 1992, 1994, 1996, 2000, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2012, 2014
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If I understand things right you can't officially reopen your recruitment, until you're officially released from your LOI..As far as I remember most school's whether men's or women's, will typically not give you a release until you have at least met with the new Coach..sounds reasonable..why was Scholl so quick to give Shemera one without her even meeting with Scholl at minimum?
before social media sure, but now all a kid needs to do is complain online and the school is backed into a corner.
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By the way, how many patents do you have?
I have 12, one for each inch.
I am the most believable poster on Scoop, thusly.
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before social media sure, but now all a kid needs to do is complain online and the school is backed into a corner.
Or just ask for more ketchup or bacon.
Wait, wrong topic inside this topic.
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So Penn State's major success was 24 years ago. I admit I don't follow women's basketball as closely as men's, but I never heard them mentioned in the same breath as Tennessee, Stanford,Connecticut and Notre Dame. And yes Fluffy, I see nothing wrong with having loyalty to your Alma mater and the school that gave you your first major opportunity to coach !!
They were pretty good for a number of years when Rene Portland coached there and there was a bit of controversy with her. Coquese Washington had success at first when she arrived but had fallen off quite a bit the last few years.
Penn State brings back some memories as I went to a Marquette NCAA Tourney game there in 1995 - Penn State was a pretty big power back then as I recall and yes I realize that was awhile ago :).
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before social media sure, but now all a kid needs to do is complain online and the school is backed into a corner.
This - I think Marquette would have gotten toasted on twitter if it came out that they wouldn't release her from her LOI right away.
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Penn State brings back some memories as I went to a Marquette NCAA Tourney game there in 1995 - Penn State was a pretty big power back then as I recall and yes I realize that was awhile ago :).
I believe it was ODU, Kansas State, Penn State and UConn at the MECCA.
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I believe it was ODU, Kansas State, Penn State and UConn at the MECCA.
Yeah - that was the Kelly Mazzante era at Penn State then - she was quite the scorer.
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Thanks for the insight on Penn State’s past success,I obviously was not aware. I do wish her well, just sorry to see her leave.
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The last Penn State coach was getting $700k per year. No way, Marquette should match that.
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In light of Muffett McGraws comments today, i really hope that the Marquette is committed to hiring another woman to replace Kieger.
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In light of Muffett McGraws comments today, i really hope that the Marquette is committed to hiring another woman to replace Kieger.
Bullcrap move by Krieger in my opinion. Fin nut up and build the program, discuss and be flexible with ur income, ur in the top 5% of all americans in earnings. Give it more than 5 years. Do u think Pat Summit, geno or muffett were making the biggest salaries in the game in year 5? Or they built a brand? Built a name? And to do it at your alma mater? What a legend and legacy that could have been built. The job was only gonna get better and the goodwill and influence she would have continued to build at MU would have only benfitted her. Personally i think its a short sighted BS move. In my opinion not even close to worth a couple hundred thousand a year and i say that with the belief that she could have made it all on the back end at MU and been a almost lifetime contract. Versus now stepping into the life of potentially a vagabond coaching career always 2-3 seasons away from being fired.
I almost guarantee the kevin oneills, lon krugers, etc. or even a tom crean at this point look back and say boy the taking up roots in a comminity and being there for there career is worth all they made in extra cash compared to moving around once or twice a decade and being merely an afterthought by different fanbases and the profession.
Jmho and maybe the way im wired. Ive had two jobs and moved twice, have also had income increase or decrease by 6 figures in a year on a number of ovcassions
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If my kid was stupid enough to complain about this to me, they would have gotten a smack upside the head and the comment, "you have an effing OMELET STATION in your dorm cafeteria and you are bitching? You should have seen the gruel we were forced to eat!"
You are a woman of true enlightenment. Must be that Nashville education!
I try to forget that gruel we had. My kids think it came with the 10 mile uphill walk in -30 weather that we endured going to class.
In Nashville! 😰
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You are a woman of true enlightenment. Must be that Nashville education!
I try to forget that gruel we had. My kids think it came with the 10 mile uphill walk in -30 weather that we endured going to class.
In Nashville! 😰
I do remember the time the cafeteria lady laughed at me because I thought the white lumpy stuff on the steam table was grits; it was Cream of Wheat.
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In light of Muffett McGraws comments today, i really hope that the Marquette is committed to hiring another woman to replace Kieger.
I was curious if her comments were unlawful...better said if she followed through with them would they be. Notre Dame is an equal opportunity employer and those comments, as well intentioned as they are, did not fit that scope.
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Bullcrap move by Krieger in my opinion. Fin nut up and build the program, discuss and be flexible with ur income, ur in the top 5% of all americans in earnings. Give it more than 5 years. Do u think Pat Summit, geno or muffett were making the biggest salaries in the game in year 5? Or they built a brand? Built a name? And to do it at your alma mater? What a legend and legacy that could have been built. The job was only gonna get better and the goodwill and influence she would have continued to build at MU would have only benfitted her. Personally i think its a short sighted BS move. In my opinion not even close to worth a couple hundred thousand a year and i say that with the belief that she could have made it all on the back end at MU and been a almost lifetime contract. Versus now stepping into the life of potentially a vagabond coaching career always 2-3 seasons away from being fired.
I almost guarantee the kevin oneills, lon krugers, etc. or even a tom crean at this point look back and say boy the taking up roots in a comminity and being there for there career is worth all they made in extra cash compared to moving around once or twice a decade and being merely an afterthought by different fanbases and the profession.
Jmho and maybe the way im wired. Ive had two jobs and moved twice, have also had income increase or decrease by 6 figures in a year on a number of ovcassions
I like this post a great deal, maybe because I'm wired kind of the same way. With that said this discussion is a bit of semantics until we know the delta between her Marquette deal and her Penn State deal.
I haven't seen the PSU number but if a) it's much, much better than what MU offered -- including with favorable contract terms, earnout/buyout, broader investment in the program... and b) if MU took her for granted in any way because she was an alum.... you can kind of see both PSU's recruiting process and why Kieger took the deal.
Here's the other thing - if she fails and unless we stumble upon the next Pat Summitt, she's probably always welcome back here when the job opens up again.
So huge short term upside and long term downside protection... yeah, I get it.
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Yeah, If someone offers to double my salary, I don't give a crap if I'm an alum. I think most people would do the same.
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I was hopeful that she would stay. My thought was when Wojo left, Marquette could break new ground for a D-1 Catholic School and hire her to coach the men's team.
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Yeah, If someone offers to double my salary, I don't give a crap if I'm an alum. I think most people would do the same.
I am asking because I do not know the answer. Do we have a rough idea what she was making at Marquette? What Penn St. offered? And what Marquette offered to keep her?
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I am asking because I do not know the answer. Do we have a rough idea what she was making at Marquette? What Penn St. offered? And what Marquette offered to keep her?
Penn State last coach was getting $700k per year.
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Penn State last coach was getting $700k per year.
And what was she making at Marquette and what did Marquette offer her to stay?
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And what was she making at Marquette and what did Marquette offer her to stay?
I don't know. Many would guess she was around $350k at Marquette.
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I don't know. Many would guess she was around $350k at Marquette.
Her salary was under $320K. Check out page 50 of Marquette's 990. They are required to list the top 5 highest-paid employees who aren't officers or "key employees". She's not on the list, but someone making $320K is.
https://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/FY17Form990PUBLIC.pdf
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Her salary was under $320K. Check out page 50 of Marquette's 990. They are required to list the top 5 highest-paid employees who aren't officers or "key employees". She's not on the list, but someone making $320K is.
https://www.marquette.edu/financeoffice/documents/FY17Form990PUBLIC.pdf
Thank you. I am just curious about it. Doug Bruno for example makes north of $500k but he has also been there 33 years. That would put him in the middle of the Big Ten salaries. I know Auriema is north of $2million and McGraw is mid to upper $1million.
Obviously womens hoops at Marquette is non revenue without a lot of support. Washington was one of the highest paid Big Ten coaches despite poor results. Curious if Kieger would start in the bottom tier of $300k or middle $500k or upper handful of upper six figures.
I understand the situation completely. But I suppose I am not all that thrilled to see so much happy happy joy joy about it. Would hope Marquette at least tried to be competitive a little bit to keep her.
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Think about it.
You have built a strong professional reputation.
Someone offers you very good working conditions, double your current salary and really strong opportunity.
What would you do?
I really like Coach. She’s personable, successful and built a great team. I’m sorry to see her go, but thank her for what she did and hope she is very successful at Penn State.
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Think about it.
You have built a strong professional reputation.
Someone offers you very good working conditions, double your current salary and really strong opportunity.
What would you do?
I really like Coach. She’s personable, successful and built a great team. I’m sorry to see her go, but thank her for what she did and hope she is very successful at Penn State.
Well that is why I asked. Just because the previous coach there was making $700k doesn’t mean that is what they offered Kieger. Also I was interested in the raise amount Marquette offered to stay.
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Part of my post was based on the two posts that said mitchell was at $500k n psu coach at $700k
thats not worth the change. Continue ur success and keep posting top 15 teams n ur at 700 before long at ur alma mater imho. Too each their own.
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Her success already dictated a competitive raise. She was going to be the Buzz Williams of the women’s team but better because she is an alum. If Marquette did not offer a similar or better salary as Penn State they are short sighted and missed a huge opportunity to build a very successful women’s program for the next 20 years. They have essentially relegated the program to a second, if not third tier program. MU will regret this I’m the future. Continued success would have brought a fan base that would have eventually started selling out the AL with bigger games at Fiserv. What a shame.
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Her success already dictated a competitive raise. She was going to be the Buzz Williams of the women’s team but better because she is an alum. If Marquette did not offer a similar or better salary as Penn State they are short sighted and missed a huge opportunity to build a very successful women’s program for the next 20 years. They have essentially relegated the program to a second, if not third tier program. MU will regret this I’m the future. Continued success would have brought a fan base that would have eventually started selling out the AL with bigger games at Fiserv. What a shame.
The team was top 15 most of this year and the attendance was not there at the AL.
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Her success already dictated a competitive raise. She was going to be the Buzz Williams of the women’s team but better because she is an alum. If Marquette did not offer a similar or better salary as Penn State they are short sighted and missed a huge opportunity to build a very successful women’s program for the next 20 years. They have essentially relegated the program to a second, if not third tier program. MU will regret this I’m the future. Continued success would have brought a fan base that would have eventually started selling out the AL with bigger games at Fiserv. What a shame.
Yeah, a few weeks ago I was watching the men play on four different networks at the same time. The women had one game on espn3 followed by a "wraparound." The team was great all year and barely drew a crowd at the Al. No way they cover the light bill much less the rent at Fiserv. Sorry, but they just don't draw.
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Takes time to build a following. ND was the the same pre McGraw and in her early years. You need to win consistently to get a fan base to come out. Watched several games on TV because I live in Indiana for the first time this year with my daughter. She was interested because they were good. They finish last place every year from now on shed rather watch the men. A shame. Not thinking long term or big time.
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If this is a truck stop city, sure maybe the MU Women get big crowds.
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End of the day this is about huge television money which comes from TV. The SEC, Big Ten and soon ACC with their television network, have loads of cash. They are starting to spend it on Olympic sports as well as Women's hoops. MU should not be paying $700K for a women's basketball coach. The pie is only so big, one sport drives the show for MU....simple as that. If a wealthy donor wants to foot the bill, then hell yes. But with department resources, it cannot happen. That sounds rough, sounds terrible and mean, but those are the economics at MU.
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End of the day this is about huge television money which comes from TV. The SEC, Big Ten and soon ACC with their television network, have loads of cash. They are starting to spend it on Olympic sports as well as Women's hoops. MU should not be paying $700K for a women's basketball coach. The pie is only so big, one sport drives the show for MU....simple as that. If a wealthy donor wants to foot the bill, then hell yes. But with department resources, it cannot happen. That sounds rough, sounds terrible and mean, but those are the economics at MU.
Yep, such is life.
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In the end, I understand the economics of the situation but she was almost too good to be true. I hope they at least gave her a counter offer. Just a shame because she could have built another MU athletic program that alums could be proud of watching.
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Bullcrap move by Krieger in my opinion. Fin nut up and build the program, discuss and be flexible with ur income, ur in the top 5% of all americans in earnings. Give it more than 5 years. Do u think Pat Summit, geno or muffett were making the biggest salaries in the game in year 5? Or they built a brand? Built a name? And to do it at your alma mater? What a legend and legacy that could have been built. The job was only gonna get better and the goodwill and influence she would have continued to build at MU would have only benfitted her. Personally i think its a short sighted BS move. In my opinion not even close to worth a couple hundred thousand a year and i say that with the belief that she could have made it all on the back end at MU and been a almost lifetime contract. Versus now stepping into the life of potentially a vagabond coaching career always 2-3 seasons away from being fired.
I almost guarantee the kevin oneills, lon krugers, etc. or even a tom crean at this point look back and say boy the taking up roots in a comminity and being there for there career is worth all they made in extra cash compared to moving around once or twice a decade and being merely an afterthought by different fanbases and the profession.
Jmho and maybe the way im wired. Ive had two jobs and moved twice, have also had income increase or decrease by 6 figures in a year on a number of ovcassions
I disagree - there is a huge discrepancy between the quality of the Big Ten and Big East in Women's Basketball (the BE only had 2 teams even make the NCAA Tournament this year). And you really have to be UCONN or in a P5 conference to get far in the Women's NCAA Tournament these days. I am not thrilled she left because I fear it's kind of screwed the program for quite awhile but I really can't blame her for taking the Penn State job. It's a much better opportunity for her in my opinion.
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Her success already dictated a competitive raise. She was going to be the Buzz Williams of the women’s team but better because she is an alum. If Marquette did not offer a similar or better salary as Penn State they are short sighted and missed a huge opportunity to build a very successful women’s program for the next 20 years. They have essentially relegated the program to a second, if not third tier program. MU will regret this I’m the future. Continued success would have brought a fan base that would have eventually started selling out the AL with bigger games at Fiserv. What a shame.
They couldn't even average 2,000 fans a game this season. If the success the 18-19 team had along with all the media attention they got for both MU teams being ranked didn't draw fans in, I don't think it's ever going to happen. And they had two local stars too. The only way they're playing in the Fiserv Forum again any time soon is if a car lands on the court and I sure hope that doesn't happen again :).
They haven't even had that many sellouts since they've been playing in the Al (began in Jan 2004). I think a UCONN game in 2007 was their first sellout mainly due to UCONN fans. Now they tend to mark the scream games hosting students at sell outs and they sold out the Notre Dame game this year. But the ND sellout was due to ND fans - not due to MU fans. And I can't remember the last non-scream game that was a sellout before the ND game.
I was worried they weren't even going to sell out the Al had they been able to host NCAA Tourney games. But that didn't end up mattering since they slipped to a 5 seed.
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Agreed on current state of the program and current attendance or lack there of. Unfortunately we’ll never find out what consistently winning over a long period of time will do for attendance because we have all predetermined that it is a no go. MU will not make the commitment.
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Agreed on current state of the program and current attendance or lack there of. Unfortunately we’ll never find out what consistently winning over a long period of time will do for attendance because we have all predetermined that it is a no go. MU will not make the commitment.
They had pretty good teams for 3 years and there was really no bump in attendance - I'm doubting it would have gotten much better over more time.
The other thing is it's not as if they were going to be a top 10 team again next season had Kieger stayed. She was facing a rebuild of sorts at Marquette also and I was expecting a season kind of like the freshmen year of the current senior class at Marquette - they were just under .500 that year and didn't qualify for post-season play. And then it remained to be seen if the 8 recruits she'd signed would have the kind of success the current senior class did.
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I applaud the enthusiasm of some of you in regards to the women's bball program.
I want to be excited about Coach Duffy, but I find it hard right now. When an alumni treats the program as a 2nd rate stepping stone program it is hard to see it any other way.
I get why she left, I am just still incrediably disappointed by it.
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I applaud the enthusiasm of some of you in regards to the women's bball program.
I want to be excited about Coach Duffy, but I find it hard right now. When an alumni treats the program as a 2nd rate stepping stone program it is hard to see it any other way.
I get why she left, I am just still incrediably disappointed by it.
Frankly, in Women's basketball, Marquette IS a second-rate stepping stone program. We have, what, like 6 NCAA appearances ever? And one WNIT championship? While the Big East is not a step down in mens, it is definitely a step down in the women's game.
As much as Terri Mitchell wore out her welcome by being mediocre for so long, she was an excellent representative of the University and loyal for nearly 20 years. Kieger, despite being an alum, was really just a flash in the pan for us. Sadly, expecting more than what Mitchell did other than a few "special" seasons is probably unreasonable as things stand right now.
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In Kieger’s first year, MUWBB averaged 1185 a game. This season it was 1884 per game, a 59% increase. In 2018 (most recent), the NCAA average was 1622, Big East was 1190, Miami OH was 626, Miami FL (where Kieger came from) was 1136, and PSU (where Kieger went) was 3118.
Kieger took MU a long way, but there is a lot to build yet to get to even top tier. MU is about a 115 index over national average on attendance. Football $ matters.
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In Kieger’s first year, MUWBB averaged 1185 a game. This season it was 1884 per game, a 59% increase. In 2018 (most recent), the NCAA average was 1622, Big East was 1190, Miami OH was 626, Miami FL (where Kieger came from) was 1136, and PSU (where Kieger went) was 3118.
Kieger took MU a long way, but there is a lot to build yet to get to even top tier. MU is about a 115 index over national average on attendance. Football $ matters.
These numbers paint a great picture - PSU, in a down year, had nearly 1500 more fans per game. And their coach also made at least twice as much ours. Coach Kieger is moving to a better conference (for women's bball), with much better fan support, for more money. She's making the right call for her career, no doubt. MU was never going to pay her $700k/year, and that's ok.
I also have no doubt that if Coach Duffy sees similar success, she'll move on to greener pastures, as well.
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I disagree - there is a huge discrepancy between the quality of the Big Ten and Big East in Women's Basketball (the BE only had 2 teams even make the NCAA Tournament this year). And you really have to be UCONN or in a P5 conference to get far in the Women's NCAA Tournament these days. I am not thrilled she left because I fear it's kind of screwed the program for quite awhile but I really can't blame her for taking the Penn State job. It's a much better opportunity for her in my opinion.
What were uconn or la tech or tennessee or ..... before their head coachs took over n built the brand? What has la tech or tennessee ir etc done since? U can build it ir kinda chase it? PSU aint one of them anyway. Dumb shortterm move. The money n everything else was there is she just dug in. Imo fook Krieger, welcome Duffy i hope she learned a thing or two from her old coach about program building, she looks to be an upgrade.
Coach Krieger welcome to the Tom Crean career path... f u
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What were uconn or la tech or tennessee or ..... before their head coachs took over n built the brand? What has la tech or tennessee ir etc done since? U can build it ir kinda chase it? PSU aint one of them anyway. Dumb shortterm move. The money n everything else was there is she just dug in. Imo fook Krieger, welcome Duffy i hope she learned a thing or two from her old coach about program building, she looks to be an upgrade.
Coach Krieger welcome to the Tom Crean career path... f u
I don't know what kind of work you do, but it's too bad Marquette didn't try to hire you because apparently they could've gotten you at a substantial discount due to your loyalty!
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What were uconn or la tech or tennessee or ..... before their head coachs took over n built the brand? What has la tech or tennessee ir etc done since? U can build it ir kinda chase it? PSU aint one of them anyway. Dumb shortterm move. The money n everything else was there is she just dug in. Imo fook Krieger, welcome Duffy i hope she learned a thing or two from her old coach about program building, she looks to be an upgrade.
Coach Krieger welcome to the Tom Crean career path... f u
I think you're irrationally angry about this.
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I don't know what kind of work you do, but it's too bad Marquette didn't try to hire you because apparently they could've gotten you at a substantial discount due to your loyalty!
Yep means something to me, as ive said before the money is there. If u wanna chase instant gratification for something less meaningful then have at it. Also going to a program that has significantly underperformed MU of late. So its not like it coulnt be done. Davenport n mccoy dont go down n ur looking at a top 5 team n very possible final 4. So its only for the money. Chasing it is a fools folly.
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I think you're irrationally angry about this.
Not angry in the slightest just calling out stupidity where i see it. Also at this stage in my life/career i think my take is extremely rational. I pefer to build rather than chase. As a business owner who started with nothing but a s#it ton of debt, i guess its just my perspective.
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Looks like we are announcing Megan Duffy (Miami of Ohio) to replace Kieger today. Supposed to be good, but loves ND and would ultimately go there I’m sure. What I heard anyway.
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Personally I'd want to stay at the school I went to and build up the program, but that's just me.
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Personally I'd want to stay at the school I went to and build up the program, but that's just me.
Even if it cost you several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?
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Even if it cost you several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?
I gave up upwards of $700k in income over the short term to leave and start my own business. I had business revenue of under $50k in my first year. So in my case ... yes
Wasnt making a 3 year decision
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Even if it cost you several hundreds of thousands of dollars a year?
The last job change I made was a slight reduction of salary for more enjoyment, granted that difference in salary is nowhere near this one.
I don't know what the actual numbers are but if I had to choose between 500K at Marquette and 700K elsewhere, I don't believe that wouldn't a large enough difference for me to leave.
Don't get me wrong, I get why she did it, but I wouldn't have made that move myself.
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I gave up upwards of $700k in income over the short term to leave and start my own business. I had business revenue of under $50k in my first year. So in my case ... yes
Wasnt making a 3 year decision
This will be relevant when Carolyn Kieger decides to start her own business.
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Yep means something to me, as ive said before the money is there. If u wanna chase instant gratification for something less meaningful then have at it. Also going to a program that has significantly underperformed MU of late. So its not like it coulnt be done. Davenport n mccoy dont go down n ur looking at a top 5 team n very possible final 4. So its only for the money. Chasing it is a fools folly.
How many women's basketball games did you attend last year? How much did you donate to the Blue and Gold fund specifically earmarked for women's basketball?
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How many women's basketball games did you attend last year? How much did you donate to the Blue and Gold fund specifically earmarked for women's basketball?
Wtf does that have to do with anything?
And the answer is no where near 0 and 0
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This will be relevant when Carolyn Kieger decides to start her own business.
Very narrow minded response. In fact, your wrong, its about a path, tall titan and i would have taken a different route as im sure would have others, some agree with the other route. Thats fine too, just not my cup of tea.
Good to see ur as obtuse as ever tho.
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Looks like we are announcing Megan Duffy (Miami of Ohio) to replace Kieger today. Supposed to be good, but loves ND and would ultimately go there I’m sure. What I heard anyway.
She’d have to get in line to go to ND. Carol Owens was named WBCA National Assistant coach of the year this year. Niele Ivey was the first ever recipient of the award in 2016. Both are long time assistants. There are also other successful past assistants, McGuff at Ohio St. etc...so i wouldn’t be too concerned about Duffy leaving for ND any time soon. Ivey would likely be first choice when McGraw retires. She is a big reason for the past 12 years of greater success there than in the past. She also won a national title as a player there, just before Duffy arrived there as a player.
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Wtf does that have to do with anything?
And the answer is no where near 0 and 0
It has to do with everything. I cannot stand people who don't support a program, but take every opportunity to crap on it and second-guess other people's choices regarding that program.
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I gave up upwards of $700k in income over the short term to leave and start my own business. I had business revenue of under $50k in my first year. So in my case ... yes
Wasnt making a 3 year decision
Respectfully, I believe your situation was very different. You traded in income for the opportunity to pursue something bigger that you had control over. You believed in yourself that you could make something bigger. And I sincerely congratulate you for that.
But she didn't have that option. Either way, she was going to be working for someone else who would decide how much to pay her. No matter how much she believed she could accomplish, if she didn't believe that her employer (Marquette) would ever pay her what PSU offered -- or even close -- then it's understandable that she would leave.
Leaving a high salary to start your own business is very, very different than deciding between two employers. If Employer No. 2 is going to pay you double what Employer No. 1 will pay you, it seems like a pretty simple decision to me. You left for a huge up-side, which apparently worked really well for you. You wouldn't have done it if you didn't believe in that upside. I suspect that Kieger just didn't believe that Marquette was offering the upside. I wish her the best at PSU.
And, welcome to Coach Duffy.
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It has to do with everything. I cannot stand people who don't support a program, but take every opportunity to crap on it and second-guess other people's choices regarding that program.
You know nothing, but pontificate away.
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Respectfully, I believe your situation was very different. You traded in income for the opportunity to pursue something bigger that you had control over. You believed in yourself that you could make something bigger. And I sincerely congratulate you for that.
But she didn't have that option. Either way, she was going to be working for someone else who would decide how much to pay her. No matter how much she believed she could accomplish, if she didn't believe that her employer (Marquette) would ever pay her what PSU offered -- or even close -- then it's understandable that she would leave.
Leaving a high salary to start your own business is very, very different than deciding between two employers. If Employer No. 2 is going to pay you double what Employer No. 1 will pay you, it seems like a pretty simple decision to me. You left for a huge up-side, which apparently worked really well for you. You wouldn't have done it if you didn't believe in that upside. I suspect that Kieger just didn't believe that Marquette was offering the upside. I wish her the best at PSU.
And, welcome to Coach Duffy.
I dont disagree with that one iota. And we were not flys on the wall so dont know particulars. What i do know tho is mu was coming off the two best seasons ever and had summitt and geno done the same thing things may have turned out differently. I guess we will never know. If she were not an alum it prolly is a different story. We shall see, just personally have never been a grass is greener kinda person, would rather nurture the grass i already have.
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In fact, your wrong, its about a path, tall titan and i would have taken a different route as im sure would have others, some agree with the other route. Thats fine too, just not my cup of tea.
"That's fine too?"
Dumb shortterm move. The money n everything else was there is she just dug in. Imo fook Krieger, welcome Duffy i hope she learned a thing or two from her old coach about program building, she looks to be an upgrade.
Coach Krieger welcome to the Tom Crean career path... f u
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