Amazing stat on Izzo. This would be assuming a player stayed all 4 years.
Of his 24 recruiting classes, 23 have gone to a Final Four.
That's amazing. How about drawing up back to back huge baskets out of timeouts. Hell of a coach.
after Izzo had been a grad assistant at Michigan State, Jud Heathcote didn't have a full-time assistant job to offer him.
Izzo takes a job in Tulsa. Within a couple months, Mike Deane leaves the MSU staff for the Siena job.
Izzo returned to East Lansing. Certainly seems to have worked out for both him and the University.
Juniors and Seniors beat Freshman. It's that simple.
It's true for both Auburn and MSU.
Quote from: WarriorFan on March 31, 2019, 10:39:53 PM
Juniors and Seniors beat Freshman. It's that simple.
It's true for both Auburn and MSU.
A research report on Michigan State that supports your point
https://www.si.com/college-basketball/2019/03/31/michigan-state-duke-final-four-cassius-winston-tom-izzo
MSU with Izzo is a great place play basketball...plus you can freely assault women. That's a winning combination.
Guess the posters who so desperately wanted me gowne are stuck with me.
Sad.
Quote from: WarriorFan on March 31, 2019, 10:39:53 PM
Juniors and Seniors beat Freshman. It's that simple.
It's true for both Auburn and MSU.
Shooting beats not shooting. It's that simple.
Quote from: MUDish on March 31, 2019, 06:23:33 PM
Amazing stat on Izzo. This would be assuming a player stayed all 4 years.
Of his 24 recruiting classes, 23 have gone to a Final Four.
Crapshoot
Quote from: wadesworld on March 31, 2019, 11:53:06 PM
Guess the posters who so desperately wanted me gowne are stuck with me.
Sad.
Shooting beats not shooting. It's that simple.
More points beats less points, it's that simple
Quote from: WhiteTrash on March 31, 2019, 11:50:47 PM
MSU with Izzo is a great place play basketball...plus you can freely assault women. That's a winning combination.
Izzo is a garbage human being and his program is garbage
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 01, 2019, 06:49:52 AM
Izzo is a garbage human being and his program is garbage
Oh, so you are on a first name basis with Izzo and have lots of first hand experience with him to claim that he is a garbage human being?
Quote from: Norm on April 01, 2019, 07:23:58 AM
Oh, so you are on a first name basis with Izzo and have lots of first hand experience with him to claim that he is a garbage human being?
If he were on a first name basis with him, wouldn't he have called him "Tom"?
Quote from: Norm on April 01, 2019, 07:23:58 AM
Oh, so you are on a first name basis with Izzo and have lots of first hand experience with him to claim that he is a garbage human being?
I have no time for coaches who bury their heads in the sand and proclaim ignorance about all the things that happen in their program that are negative.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on April 01, 2019, 07:40:51 AM
I have no time for coaches who bury their heads in the sand and proclaim ignorance about all the things that happen in their program that are negative.
Yep. People in high places have ways of making sure they get info without leaving a clear paper trail. Plausible deniability....
This probably won't help Izzo's legacy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/sports/michigan-state-rape.html?register=email&auth=register-email
By Marc Tracy
April 10, 2019
Robin and David Kowalski barely recognized their daughter Bailey when she was visiting home in White Lake, Mich., in the spring of 2015.
Their perennially positive daughter, who was about to finish her freshman year at Michigan State, was sullen. She had suddenly decided to abandon her long-held dream of being a sports journalist, and she refused to tell her mother, in whom she typically confided everything, why.
It was not until October, after months of erratic behavior, that Ms. Kowalski told her parents that she had been raped by three Michigan State basketball players that April. The incident left her depressed and considering harming herself. She dropped out of college for a while and received counseling. She gave up sports journalism for good.
Last year, Ms. Kowalski, 22, who is speaking publicly about her case for the first time, sued Michigan State in federal court for violating her rights under Title IX, the federal law mandating gender equity in higher education, as a Jane Doe. The lawsuit asserts that Michigan State mishandles sexual misconduct complaints against athletes. One woman said two football players raped her in 2009, but she was not advised of her Title IX rights, the lawsuit said, and another woman said three basketball players raped her in 2010, after which the accusations were not reported outside the athletic department.
A Michigan State motion to dismiss the case is pending. A university spokeswoman, Emily Guerrant, declined to comment on the case while the litigation is ongoing but said Michigan State "is dedicated to making sure every student receives fair treatment and support when they need it."
Ms. Kowalski has decided to come forward, hoping she can persuade other victims, at Michigan State or elsewhere, to tell their stories.
According to Ms. Kowalski, when a university counselor learned that the men who she said assailed her were members of the basketball team — a storied and treasured program that has played in 10 Final Fours, including this year's — the counselor discouraged her from reporting it, the lawsuit said.
"If you pursue this, you are going to be swimming with some really big fish," a staff member told Ms. Kowalski, the lawsuit said.
Ms. Kowalski plans to hold a news conference in East Lansing on Thursday, the fourth anniversary of the incident. A month later, she will graduate from Michigan State.
"I don't want any other girl who has gone through this or who God forbid may have to go through something like this to feel for one second that they should be too afraid to come out and do something," Ms. Kowalski said in a phone interview last week.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 11, 2019, 11:49:57 AM
This probably won't help Izzo's legacy.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/10/sports/michigan-state-rape.html?register=email&auth=register-email
By Marc Tracy
April 10, 2019
Robin and David Kowalski barely recognized their daughter Bailey when she was visiting home in White Lake, Mich., in the spring of 2015.
Their perennially positive daughter, who was about to finish her freshman year at Michigan State, was sullen. She had suddenly decided to abandon her long-held dream of being a sports journalist, and she refused to tell her mother, in whom she typically confided everything, why.
It was not until October, after months of erratic behavior, that Ms. Kowalski told her parents that she had been raped by three Michigan State basketball players that April. The incident left her depressed and considering harming herself. She dropped out of college for a while and received counseling. She gave up sports journalism for good.
Last year, Ms. Kowalski, 22, who is speaking publicly about her case for the first time, sued Michigan State in federal court for violating her rights under Title IX, the federal law mandating gender equity in higher education, as a Jane Doe. The lawsuit asserts that Michigan State mishandles sexual misconduct complaints against athletes. One woman said two football players raped her in 2009, but she was not advised of her Title IX rights, the lawsuit said, and another woman said three basketball players raped her in 2010, after which the accusations were not reported outside the athletic department.
A Michigan State motion to dismiss the case is pending. A university spokeswoman, Emily Guerrant, declined to comment on the case while the litigation is ongoing but said Michigan State "is dedicated to making sure every student receives fair treatment and support when they need it."
Ms. Kowalski has decided to come forward, hoping she can persuade other victims, at Michigan State or elsewhere, to tell their stories.
According to Ms. Kowalski, when a university counselor learned that the men who she said assailed her were members of the basketball team — a storied and treasured program that has played in 10 Final Fours, including this year's — the counselor discouraged her from reporting it, the lawsuit said.
"If you pursue this, you are going to be swimming with some really big fish," a staff member told Ms. Kowalski, the lawsuit said.
Ms. Kowalski plans to hold a news conference in East Lansing on Thursday, the fourth anniversary of the incident. A month later, she will graduate from Michigan State.
"I don't want any other girl who has gone through this or who God forbid may have to go through something like this to feel for one second that they should be too afraid to come out and do something," Ms. Kowalski said in a phone interview last week.
we cant throw stones in glass houses
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
we cant throw stones in glass houses
You mixed up the saying, but Marquette fans can be critical of how other schools are handling sexual assault as long as they hold their own school to similar scrutiny.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
we cant throw stones in glass houses
tamueagle's problem now.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2019, 12:10:09 PM
You mixed up the saying, but Marquette fans can be critical of how other schools are handling sexual assault as long as they hold their own school to similar scrutiny.
Depends on the poster. some here say Buzz isn't liable at all (so then why can we point at Izzo?) some here don't even believe it actually happened.
Isn't the saying "don't throw stones in glass houses"?
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
we cant throw stones in glass houses
We aren't all in glass houses re: Buzz's handling of that situation.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:15:48 PM
Depends on the poster. some here say Buzz isn't liable at all (so then why can we point at Izzo?) some here don't even believe it actually happened.
Isn't the saying "don't throw stones in glass houses"?
People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 11, 2019, 12:21:52 PM
People who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw stones.
Oh damn thanks for that
Quote from: Pakuni on April 11, 2019, 12:19:06 PM
We aren't all in glass houses re: Buzz's handling of that situation.
Agree just wanted to put that out there before a bunch of Izzo haters who love Buzz commented.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
we cant throw stones in glass houses
We don't have a glass house. We cleaned up our program.
Quote from: SERocks on April 11, 2019, 12:58:36 PM
We don't have a glass house. We cleaned up our program.
Windex?
Quote from: SERocks on April 11, 2019, 12:58:36 PM
We don't have a glass house. We cleaned up our program.
think mu would have acted differently than msu if buzz had the winning history that izzo has?
Quote from: SERocks on April 11, 2019, 12:58:36 PM
We don't have a glass house. We cleaned up our program.
We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.
I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.
I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.
Fair to say that no one can say with 100% certainty that any university is without faults but you do realize the massive extent of unethical and criminal behavior at MSU? My god they just paid out 1/2 billion dollars to some victims and there have been 35 sexual violence and related misconduct complaints filed against MSU athletes since fall 2012. And, I'd bet anything that the action of the brave woman who came forward to day will result in even more complaints (as it did in the Nassar situation). MSU doesn't encourage its athletes to rape women but it sure as hell is guilty of cover up and bullying female victims and that is equally as evil and illegal.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 12:05:59 PM
we cant throw stones in glass houses
What are the other options. Silence is consent?
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
We don't believe we do. That doesn't make it so. I get the impression we have a clean program, but the reason things like this come out months & years after the fact is because people cover it up.
I want to believe the best about MU, but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.
Yes, but when the people doing the cover-upping skip town due to mounting internal pressure that the MO won't be tolerated anymore...that's a lot more than the glass-enclosed ivory tower §€!#@$$e$ in East Lansing did. Their guy with two Z's in his name was worshiped...our guy with two Z's was worried....with good reason.
If the tables were turned and our administration let the inmates run the asylum, I would be even more disgusted. IZZO is a hell of a basketball coach. He is a scumbag of a person.
I'm not endorsing anything at MSU. Just pointing out that this stuff was going on 5, 10, 15 years ago and no one was any the wiser. Easy to be critical when the spotlight shines into the dirty closet, but I'm not going to automatically assume our own closet is pristine. Down that road lies hypocrisy.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on April 11, 2019, 06:16:23 PM
What are the other options. Silence is consent?
Im fine with critisizing MSU and Izzo but a lot of people dont with MU and Buzz just wanted to point that out
Quote from: Galway Eagle on April 11, 2019, 07:17:49 PM
Im fine with critisizing MSU and Izzo but a lot of people dont with MU and Buzz just wanted to point that out
You're right, and as Brew mentioned if we don't shine into Our closets for dirt we might/are on the road to hypocrisy and I agree.
But do we fold our tent, and not look for a solution. This stuffs been happening for a long time. Maybe its time the stone throwing begins and all the house that are affected are maybe cleaned up if that's what it takes.
As to the hypocrisy tag, in my life I had a few of those moments, (Pleading Not Guilty to a traffic violating when I indeed was Guilty)
I didn't go to Penn State but I always hoped if I had any facts about the Penn State sandal I would be strong enough to say something, and endure the backlash of jeopardizing wins, hardware banners etc from the fan base.
Maybe its the victim's ages and the ongoing length of time which ignites someone to act while considering the consequences.
Maybe it simply comes down to which side of the scale weighs more the Violations, Crimes, Victims versus the schools Reputation, Programs accomplishments and wins and hardware awarded.
Where's Dr. Phil when I need him.
I think colleges should rethink the whole first two weeks of freshman year. Basically, have the kids in classroom and seminars all day and night every day of the week. Then have some kind of academic accountability for being in these classes. Kind of like a training camp. Then immediately go into regular sessions. Life would suck at first, but it would probably eliminate a lot of the problems that freshman face.
Quote from: Herman Cain on April 11, 2019, 09:28:05 PM
I think colleges should rethink the whole first two weeks of freshman year. Basically, have the kids in classroom and seminars all day and night every day of the week. Then have some kind of academic accountability for being in these classes. Kind of like a training camp. Then immediately go into regular sessions. Life would suck at first, but it would probably eliminate a lot of the problems that freshman face.
This is the kinda chit that gets you to be Chair of the Fed, 9-9-9. 8-)
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2019, 06:35:10 PM
I'm not endorsing anything at MSU. Just pointing out that this stuff was going on 5, 10, 15 years ago and no one was any the wiser. Easy to be critical when the spotlight shines into the dirty closet, but I'm not going to automatically assume our own closet is pristine. Down that road lies hypocrisy.
+1
While Buzz and the team took the hit in the public, the real issue with Marquette was the basketball situation was treated like 100 others that were handled the same way under the university's policies (which where not in compliance with Title IX). MSU chose to ignore their policies and Title IX.
While Buzz and the team deserved the hit, so did Johnny from Mequon. MU's policy was taken right out of priest abuse playbook, however.
(https://imgc.artprintimages.com/img/print/i-know-he-cheated-on-me-because-of-his-childhood-abuse-but-i-shot-him-be-new-yorker-cartoon_u-l-pgsomi0.jpg?h=550&w=550)
Glass Houses....
Quote from: MU86NC on April 11, 2019, 10:58:58 PM
Glass Houses....
swimming in deceit
and nary a drop to drink
oh the irony
(https://www.newyorker.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/160314_a19772-1000.jpg)
Quote from: Cheeks on April 12, 2019, 08:32:41 AM
It was a new cleaner called " BuzzBeGone "
I don't get this at all. I think in the past you have said 'Buzz left on his own', etc etc. Maybe some have alluded to the fact he was encouraged to look elsewhere.
If all of the horrible things are Buzz's fault--all on Buzz. Why are more people not completely disgusted by the fact the administration let him stay and didnt fire him?
That's the glass house I have a either have a problem with or a problem reconciling the narrative...
IMO these are institutional problems--and the more we vilify just the figurehead of an issue the longer the real problems go unfixed.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 12, 2019, 08:40:29 AM
I don't get this at all. I think in the past you have said 'Buzz left on his own', etc etc. Maybe some have alluded to the fact he was encouraged to look elsewhere.
If all of the horrible things are Buzz's fault--all on Buzz. Why are more people not completely disgusted by the fact the administration let him stay and didnt fire him?
That's the glass house I have a either have a problem with or a problem reconciling the narrative...
IMO these are institutional problems--and the more we vilify just the figurehead of an issue the longer the real problems go unfixed.
They fired the athletic director, who was the former legal counsel, under whose watch let the Title IX procedures out of date. They laid the blame at his feet, which very well may have been fair. What Buzz did was wrong no doubt, but it very well may not have been how he was trained. That's the problem.
One thing that really should be completely ignored is the "messed with his happy" narrative. Marquette's job isn't simply to make Buzz happy.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 12, 2019, 08:49:47 AM
They fired the athletic director, who was the former legal counsel, under whose watch let the Title IX procedures out of date. They laid the blame at his feet, which very well may have been fair. What Buzz did was wrong no doubt, but it very well may not have been how he was trained. That's the problem.
One thing that really should be completely ignored is the "messed with his happy" narrative. Marquette's job isn't simply to make Buzz happy.
They definitely did odd things to restrict him (frosh living in dorms, changing academic stds, etc)
That has the appearance of an odd passive aggressive approach...they blamed him but didn't because he was winning. They had odd tactical responses to broad institutional issues. Now I don't doubt MUs go-forward intentions, but this isnt a new problem and it came out on the precipice of a much broader change in the environment.
MSU seems much bigger but same root cause. Institutional disregard for crime when it creates either liability or threatens an income stream.
I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify. So far hasn't been true.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 12, 2019, 09:03:12 AM
I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify. So far hasn't been true.
What broader institutional issues are you talking about? Does MU still have issues with Title IX? Or are you talking about MSU?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on April 12, 2019, 09:20:09 AM
What broader institutional issues are you talking about? Does MU still have issues with Title IX? Or are you talking about MSU?
They certainly did...and again I don't doubt their go-forward intentions and corrections.
The broader issue I am referring to is that these types of problems keep coming up...MSU is just the latest example.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on April 12, 2019, 09:03:12 AM
They definitely did odd things to restrict him (frosh living in dorms, changing academic stds, etc)
That has the appearance of an odd passive aggressive approach...they blamed him but didn't because he was winning. They had odd tactical responses to broad institutional issues. Now I don't doubt MUs go-forward intentions, but this isnt a new problem and it came out on the precipice of a much broader change in the environment.
MSU seems much bigger but same root cause. Institutional disregard for crime when it creates either liability or threatens an income stream.
I wish these problems could be solved by firing cottingham or buzz or some other one person we can vilify. So far hasn't been true.
Have you met the rest of the world? Just look at how easily white collar crime is passed over.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 11, 2019, 03:39:10 PM
... but it's only fair to recognize that the opposite is also a possibility.
If this is true, fire Wojo and bring back Buzz. We are not winning enough on the court to be putting up with other nonsense off the court.