1. Time to change the scouting report on Jermaine Samuels. Kid had a night.
2. Theo, Ed..... you are only beasts when you are on the floor. Touched on it in the Theo thread, have mentioned it many times. Right now, IMO, Theo is block happy and it is falling for pump fakes, getting out of position for rebounds. But I also firmly believe that he will get better.
3. Markus can shoot a little bit. But Nova had a really good scouting report and did a great job of stepping in and taking charges. Great way to take a scorer out of the game. Can't argue with any of the calls. But it did look a little like a Wisconsin game with all of the flopping.
4. Careless turnovers. Again. Offensive rebounds surrendered. Again.
5. I really wish that Greg was available. Hasn't hurt a ton this year. IMO, it did tonight.
6. Gus with the multiple Steve Novak references.
7. Marquette is a tough minded, fearless team. Tough minded. Fearless.
8. And so is Villanova.
9. Senior night. Defending national champs. Crowd roaring. Unexpected contributor for the defending national champs. Poor defensive rebounding at crunch time. Couldn't hit the big shot. Missed FT's at crunch time. Oops. Hat tipped.
10. Now bounce back and don't let this become a streak.
We beat ourselves
Pissed that game away giving up 800 offensive rebounds. Unacceptable.
Well fought game against a hungry opponent at the toughest place to play in the conference. Win would have been great, but I don't think anyone is freaking out.
1 point in final 6 min.
Yikes
Rebounds were the difference. Outcome was what most expected. We battled. On to the next one
I'm sorry, no hat tip for a guy who scored six points in his last three games combined.
He won't show up for the rest of the season. Absolutely pathetic that Samuels went off like that, ugly ass shot that should never go in.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:17:11 PM
Rebounds were the difference. Outcome was what most expected. We battled. On to the next one
[/quote
I'd say turnovers played a role as well
18 turnovers
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 27, 2019, 10:17:37 PM
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:17:11 PM
Rebounds were the difference. Outcome was what most expected. We battled. On to the next one
[/quote
I'd say turnovers played a role as well
TOs early. Rebounds late.
1st half issue was turnovers and fumbled rebounds, 2nd half we couldn't buy a rebound to save our lives. Disappointing result, frustrating that Samuels had a career night against us
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:17:11 PM
Rebounds were the difference. Outcome was what most expected. We battled. On to the next one
Rebounds and turnovers. Fought hard but couldn't execute down the stretch.
Gotta bounce back for Sunday. Still have control of our BE destiny.
12-1 finish for Nova.
Off boards, tip outs.
Btw that travel call against Sacar was inexcusable and was a huge sequence
I'd just focus on the TOs if I were Wojo. I'm not worried about the rebounds. I don't think the refs lost us the game, but the lack of predictability as to what was a foul and what wasn't made it impossible for our bigs to have any rhythm or feel tonight. Nothing outside the elbows was a foul, but anything around the paint or by a big got called. Real inconsistent night and I think that played a role in the rebounding stupidity. We're a good rebounding team.
Jobbed by the refs on Howard's charges. Totally changed the course of the game. Nevertheless, we had a chance to win it and didn't capitalize. Good game to learn from; Nova was hungrier tonight. If you told me we'd keep Paschall and Booth in check and make someone else beat us, I'd have taken it.
PS did Quinerly even see the floor tonight?
Is MuGuru ok? ;D
I do think .. MU wins that game 7 of 10 times. The unforced turnovers were just a killer. And the unbelievable amount of offensive rebounds that Nova got .. sure, some were effort, plenty were just great bounces to them.
That time VU got 4 ORBs and finished it getting a foul and two FTs. Wow.
The new plan for attacking Marquette's defense is to give the ball to whoever Joey is guarding.
We see this sloppy play way too much and are fortunate we are in a mountain west type of conference. We have not played any of the elite teams in a long time this season. Its not the look of a team ready to make a run
That was such a winnable game. Gave it away with turnovers and offensive rebounds. 1 point in final 6 min? Is that true? Terrible.
That was an absolute sh*t sammich of a game from the team and somehow they managed to keep it close. It bodes well for the team, but damn it is frustrating.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on February 27, 2019, 10:19:00 PM
Rebounds and turnovers. Fought hard but couldn't execute down the stretch.
Gotta bounce back for Sunday. Still have control of our BE destiny.
This, if you would of told any of us that we were in control of our BE destiny with 3 to play I think we all would have taken that at the start of the season.
IMO this would have been our best win of the season - we didn't get it, but did anyone pencil this in as a W at the start of the season?
All 3 remaining are winnable. We can back from 12 down and 10 down in this game. It was a momentum killer when Markus picked up his 4th, but the other guys stepped up and kept us right there. This is a good team.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2019, 10:21:39 PM
The new plan for attacking Marquette's defense is to give the ball to whoever Joey is guarding.
Yeah you ain't kidding there. He really is a weak link defensively.
we need more hauser at end of games. howard is great but not the same guy in clutch situations. both st johns and tonight he was chucking at end of games. bad turnovers and poor shooting by him. would rather set something up for hauser. if we are going to chuck shots, I want to see sam doing that
eFG% no matta.
Out shot them 57% to 42%.
I don't think you change that scouting report on samuels. Role player went off. Reminds me of Sacar last year. He's like jay cutler.
He can win a game but I wouldn't change my game plan at the expense of someone else going off. Let's see him do it again....
Quote from: forgetful on February 27, 2019, 10:22:49 PM
eFG% no matta.
Out shot them 57% to 42%.
Not when you turn the ball over every other possession.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:20:11 PM
Btw that travel call against Sacar was inexcusable and was a huge sequence
You fall down while in possession of the ball it is a travel. We got the same call right back a couple minutes later to give us another possession down 63-60. I would say the biggest calls were the charges against Howard, 3 could have gone either way and they got the first two.
We just turned the ball over again...
But seriously. That's a game we shoulda won.
But we had multiple rebounds where we just let it roll out of bounds.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2019, 10:21:39 PM
The new plan for attacking Marquette's defense is to give the ball to whoever Joey is guarding.
Yes. Joey gave Samuels his career night.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2019, 10:20:40 PM
I do think .. MU wins that game 7 of 10 times. The unforced turnovers were just a killer. And the unbelievable amount of offensive rebounds that Nova got .. sure, some were effort, plenty were just great bounces to them.
That time VU got 4 ORBs and finished it getting a foul and two FTs. Wow.
They really are an ugly shooting team. Even most of Samuels' threes were lazers that probably were never more than 3 inches above the rim. Ends up with lots of long rebounds out - the luck of the draw
Disagree on 1, don't believe Samuels can reproduce a night like that again, not with that flat rocket of a shot. A number of Nova offensive rebounds were because his misses, even his FTs, flew out so far.
Poor on the turnovers, poor on the defensive glass, too many fouls, and were still in a position to win if we didn't go ice cold the last 4 minutes.
BTW I thought Chartouney played a very solid game tonight.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 27, 2019, 10:24:10 PM
You fall down while in possession of the ball it is a travel. We got the same call right back a couple minutes later to give us another possession down 63-60. I would say the biggest calls were the charges against Howard, 3 could have gone either way and they got the first two.
IF you possess the ball which he did not. He gave it up as he was going down hence the terrible call. Paschal's was completely different
You win some you should lose
You lose some you should win.
Tonight was the latter category. We killed ourselves with insufficient defensive rebounding and too many turnovers.
Villanova is a great team and you have to be near perfect to beat them.
Well, Saturday is coming.
MU with 37 rebounds, Nova with 34. Its just the loose ball offensive ones killed them. MU 8, Nova 15. Like death.
MU scored one point in last five minutes, with a five point lead.
Not going to beat a quality team with 18 turnovers and opponent has 7.
Theo on floor, team dangerous.
Sacar with two points and Sam only took 9 shots. Agree with Rafferty, he should have shot more.
Shout out to Sam, he held Paschal to 4 points, but other guy had career NBA type game. Probably never happen again.
Thought a key was start to game when Nova missed first seven shots, yet MU had a massive 4 to 2 lead. Three turnovers in that time was a killer. Could have been like a 10 to 2 start and who knows how it would have ended.
this is the difference between a short run and long run in the tournament. The team did not look mentally prepared for the game tonight. Very sloppy with the ball and not boxing out on the defensive end. In addition, we have Markus Theo that committed stupid fouls.
Every game from here on out will be played with this intensity. We here wojo say it every night - "Value every possession."
Tonight we beat ourselves.
This loss doesn't really bother me. It sucked, but it doesn't make me doubt this team any more or less than I did three hours ago. What of our known weaknesses came back to bite us here vs what was just disappointing or a fluke? The only thing that sticks out to me is the lack of true ballhandlers played a big role in not being able to get into the offense for the first ten minutes of the game. We were swimming upstream all game after that.
Quote from: fjm on February 27, 2019, 10:24:11 PM
We just turned the ball over again...
But seriously. That's a game we shoulda won.
But we had multiple rebounds where we just let it roll out of bounds.
It's a game we win at home. And we did. But a Jay Wright team at the PAV is going to win that close game 8 times out of ten.
That's why home court matters so much in CBB, which is also one of the things that makes CBB great.
Quote from: warriors141 on February 27, 2019, 10:22:25 PM
we need more hauser at end of games. howard is great but not the same guy in clutch situations. both st johns and tonight he was chucking at end of games. bad turnovers and poor shooting by him. would rather set something up for hauser. if we are going to chuck shots, I want to see sam doing that
This is the result of not having a true point guard, so when Markus takes it up at the end he's looking to shoot, not pass and keep the ball moving on offense.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on February 27, 2019, 10:21:43 PM
We see this sloppy play way too much and are fortunate we are in a mountain west type of conference. We have not played any of the elite teams in a long time this season. Its not the look of a team ready to make a run
+1
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on February 27, 2019, 10:20:38 PM
Jobbed by the refs on Howard's charges. Totally changed the course of the game. Nevertheless, we had a chance to win it and didn't capitalize. Good game to learn from; Nova was hungrier tonight. If you told me we'd keep Paschall and Booth in check and make someone else beat us, I'd have taken it.
PS did Quinerly even see the floor tonight?
They were charges and I am glad it occurred now instead of in an NCAA tournament game. Howard will adjust, so that should not be a problem in the future. I still remember Dean the Dream getting called for 3 offensive fouls in NCAA tournament. The only game in his career that he fouled out and it ended our undefeated season. Lesson learned now in the long run may be a positive thing for this team. Also, MU played well with Markus on the bench. They fell apart when he came back in.
Quote from: tower912 on February 27, 2019, 10:14:56 PM
1. Time to change the scouting report on Jermaine Samuels. Kid had a night.
2. Theo, Ed..... you are only beasts when you are on the floor. Touched on it in the Theo thread, have mentioned it many times. Right now, IMO, Theo is block happy and it is falling for pump fakes, getting out of position for rebounds. But I also firmly believe that he will get better.
3. Markus can shoot a little bit. But Nova had a really good scouting report and did a great job of stepping in and taking charges. Great way to take a scorer out of the game. Can't argue with any of the calls. But it did look a little like a Wisconsin game with all of the flopping.
4. Careless turnovers. Again. Offensive rebounds surrendered. Again.
5. I really wish that Greg was available. Hasn't hurt a ton this year. IMO, it did tonight.
6. Gus with the multiple Steve Novak references.
7. Marquette is a tough minded, fearless team. Tough minded. Fearless.
8. And so is Villanova.
9. Senior night. Defending national champs. Crowd roaring. Unexpected contributor for the defending national champs. Poor defensive rebounding at crunch time. Couldn't hit the big shot. Missed FT's at crunch time. Oops. Hat tipped.
10. Now bounce back and don't let this become a streak.
#3. Can definitely argue with 4th foul on Howard. Cremo moved a ton after Howard was already in the air. That call changed the face of the game.
Quote from: dgies9156 on February 27, 2019, 10:25:33 PM
You win some you should lose
You lose some you should win.
Tonight was the latter category. We killed ourselves with insufficient defensive rebounding and too many turnovers.
Villanova is a great team and you have to be near perfect to beat them.
Well, Saturday is coming.
The TOs were ugly, but most were a result of some really good Nova D - denials, jumping passing lanes, tight coverage. Nova is not some 200 RPI cupcake, this is the defending national champ, with some veteran players and a HOF coach, playing at home in a game they really needed to win. They were amped up and played well - and forced us into most of those TOs. Yes, we'll need to win that caliber game to get past the S16 in the tournament - but I'd rather lose it here than there. Hopefully we learn some things and can get the W when it really matters.
Key turning point was when Howard came back, and offense no longer went through the Hausers. In fact, the ball rarely left Howard's hands. The team needs to continue to pass the ball at the end of the game, even when Howard is in the game.
They'll be fine.
Quote from: tower912 on February 27, 2019, 10:14:56 PM
1. Time to change the scouting report on Jermaine Samuels. Kid had a night.
2. Theo, Ed..... you are only beasts when you are on the floor. Touched on it in the Theo thread, have mentioned it many times. Right now, IMO, Theo is block happy and it is falling for pump fakes, getting out of position for rebounds. But I also firmly believe that he will get better.
3. Markus can shoot a little bit. But Nova had a really good scouting report and did a great job of stepping in and taking charges. Great way to take a scorer out of the game. Can't argue with any of the calls. But it did look a little like a Wisconsin game with all of the flopping.
4. Careless turnovers. Again. Offensive rebounds surrendered. Again.
5. I really wish that Greg was available. Hasn't hurt a ton this year. IMO, it did tonight.
6. Gus with the multiple Steve Novak references.
7. Marquette is a tough minded, fearless team. Tough minded. Fearless.
8. And so is Villanova.
9. Senior night. Defending national champs. Crowd roaring. Unexpected contributor for the defending national champs. Poor defensive rebounding at crunch time. Couldn't hit the big shot. Missed FT's at crunch time. Oops. Hat tipped.
10. Now bounce back and don't let this become a streak.
Every one of theos fouls tonight was stupid, not only stupid but immediately after he checked back in
Quote from: 21rooster on February 27, 2019, 10:31:55 PM
Key turning point was when Howard came back, and offense no longer went through the Hausers. In fact, the ball rarely left Howard's hands. The team needs to continue to pass the ball at the end of the game, even when Howard is in the game.
They'll be fine.
I think Wojo sat Howard way too long. He's a G. He can play with 4 just fine.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2019, 10:30:53 PM
They were charges and I am glad it occurred now instead of in an NCAA tournament game. Howard will adjust, so that should not be a problem in the future. I still remember Dean the Dream getting called for 3 offensive fouls in NCAA tournament. The only game in his career that he fouled out and it ended our undefeated season. Lesson learned now in the long run may be a positive thing for this team. Also, MU played well with Markus on the bench. They fell apart when he came back in.
Two of the three the defender slid in after Markus had left his feet.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 27, 2019, 10:34:11 PM
Two of the three the defender slid in after Markus had left his feet.
And one the ball was out of his hands and the shot should've counted
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:35:11 PM
And one the ball was out of his hands and the shot should've counted
Agreed. It was out before contact was made.
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2019, 10:30:53 PM
They were charges and I am glad it occurred now instead of in an NCAA tournament game. Howard will adjust, so that should not be a problem in the future. I still remember Dean the Dream getting called for 3 offensive fouls in NCAA tournament. The only game in his career that he fouled out and it ended our undefeated season. Lesson learned now in the long run may be a positive thing for this team. Also, MU played well with Markus on the bench. They fell apart when he came back in.
Did you actually see Howard's fourth. Cremo's set; Howard jumps; Cremo shuffles three feet to his left; Howard called for the charge.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on February 27, 2019, 10:34:11 PM
Two of the three the defender slid in after Markus had left his feet.
That's what I thought, but it was so close they're going to call that a charge a lot. In Milwaukee there's a good chance a couple those go our way instead.
We shot it well. They shot poorly. Game was ours for the taking, should have won it handily. Couldn't keep them off of the offensive glass, 18 TOs to their 7. Curtains.
Markus' third and fourth fouls were blocks as the defender slid in after he had left the ground. One shot went in. That's 5 points we didn't get not to mention Markus sitting out with under 10 minutes.
Quote from: 21rooster on February 27, 2019, 10:31:55 PM
Key turning point was when Howard came back, and offense no longer went through the Hausers. In fact, the ball rarely left Howard's hands. The team needs to continue to pass the ball at the end of the game, even when Howard is in the game.
They'll be fine.
Agree we seemed to lose all offensive momentum and Howard's wrist was clearly altering his shot. He miss his last 4 and that FT?
I think what's so annoying about the loss tonight is this is the exact type of play that gets you bounced early in the tourney. Dumb fouls, dumb turnovers.
Quote from: warriors141 on February 27, 2019, 10:22:25 PM
we need more hauser at end of games. howard is great but not the same guy in clutch situations. both st johns and tonight he was chucking at end of games. bad turnovers and poor shooting by him. would rather set something up for hauser. if we are going to chuck shots, I want to see sam doing that
I was saying the exact same thing tonight. Markus is special. He's a great talent, and we haven't had many player like him at MU, ever. But he's not himself at the end of games for some reason. He played a big role in keeping us in the game in the second half, but I'm always worried when he has the ball at the end of the game.
Sam, on the other hand, always keeps his composure no matter the situation. I would much rather see him getting the looks at the end of close games.
Just saw stat line and noticed Markus had 7 turnovers. Didn't realize he had that many.
Booth goes 3 for 18, but 10 for 10 from line and scored like 7 of Nova's last two points.
Quote from: nyg on February 27, 2019, 10:39:02 PM
Booth goes 3 for 18, but 10 for 10 from line and scored like 7 of Nova's last two points.
Impressive!
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:17:11 PM
Rebounds were the difference. Outcome was what most expected. We battled. On to the next one
18 turnovers with 7 from Marcus. Think he needs some work on that before going pro. Ball handling and turnovers need greater attention. Shooting and effort are his strengths.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2019, 10:38:54 PM
I was saying the exact same thing tonight. Markus is special. He's a great talent, and we haven't had many player like him at MU, ever. But he's not himself at the end of games for some reason. He played a big role in keeping us in the game in the second half, but I'm always worried when he has the ball at the end of the game.
Sam, on the other hand, always keeps his composure no matter the situation. I would much rather see him getting the looks at the end of close games.
Sam had a wide open look at the end and missed it. Would have tied the game I believe.
It must be comforting coaching a game with the officials in your pocket. The men in stripes did not want to ruin Senior Day.
Markus crap the bed at the end, but allowing a defender to slide under you while in the air is a disadvantage.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:33:43 PM
I think Wojo sat Howard way too long. He's a G. He can play with 4 just fine.
I think it was fine to sit him. The defense was better, and the team held the lead. The problem is that Howard wasn't looking for the open man when he came back in. All of the good ball movement ended at that point.
I'd also like to borrow Fran McCaffrey for that travel call on Sacar! Woof!
Quote from: TFlegend on February 27, 2019, 10:38:28 PM
I think what's so annoying about the loss tonight is this is the exact type of play that gets you bounced early in the tourney. Dumb fouls, dumb turnovers.
Like I said, the mistakes we made tonight are the difference between a good team and a great team.
Quote from: Class71 on February 27, 2019, 10:40:19 PM
18 turnovers with 7 from Marcus. Think he needs some work on that before going pro. Ball handling and turnovers need greater attention. Shooting and effort are his strengths.
To be fair, three of those were his charges, all three of which could have gone the other way.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 27, 2019, 10:33:43 PM
I think Wojo sat Howard way too long. He's a G. He can play with 4 just fine.
On the contrary. With Howard out, MU outscored VU 7-4. When Howard came back in with 3 minutes to go .. MU scores 1 more point.
I mean, not that I'd sit Markus but .. the outcome could have been different -- and certainly no worse than 1 point .. had Markus been done for the night.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2019, 10:43:04 PM
To be fair, three of those were his charges, all three of which could have gone the other way.
Should have gone the other way
Quote from: bilsu on February 27, 2019, 10:30:53 PM
They were charges and I am glad it occurred now instead of in an NCAA tournament game. Howard will adjust, so that should not be a problem in the future. I still remember Dean the Dream getting called for 3 offensive fouls in NCAA tournament. The only game in his career that he fouled out and it ended our undefeated season. Lesson learned now in the long run may be a positive thing for this team. Also, MU played well with Markus on the bench. They fell apart when he came back in.
This is the most frustrating part. Sam was a different player tonight when Markus sat. Sam was the leader on offense, taking shots, keeping the offense moving. But when Markus came back in, Sam went back to a secondary role, and we relied too much on Markus.
With Sam having a tough defensive assignment tonight, I understand why he may may have been less of a focus on offense. But when he's hitting open looks, we may want to tweak the gameplan. We're versatile enough on offense that we can rely on multiple guys to score points. The team needs to be confident in that and not default to letting Markus take every shot late in close games.
Weird statline. We killed them on eFG%, not even close. Turnovers, offensive boards, and a little home cooking by the refs let them overcome the big eFG% deficit. The fouls, eh it's going to happen. The offensive boards, I really think a lot of that was a product of Nova clanking so many threes off the front of the rim. The ball was flying off the rim right back to the offense. Only a few times where I felt like we were outworked for a rebound. The turnovers, that's what really killed us tonight. Some just brutal passes to nowhere.
I have faith that we will get that cleaned up. Thinking we win out the regular season and win the BE outright.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on February 27, 2019, 10:21:43 PM
We see this sloppy play way too much and are fortunate we are in a mountain west type of conference. We have not played any of the elite teams in a long time this season. Its not the look of a team ready to make a run
Huh? You can't be serious.
Quote from: muhoops1 on February 27, 2019, 10:47:00 PM
Should have gone the other way
Personally, I thought the first one was an obvious block, the second was a charge, and the third was close but I thought it was block.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on February 27, 2019, 10:46:19 PM
On the contrary. With Howard out, MU outscored VU 7-4. When Howard came back in with 3 minutes to go .. MU scores 1 more point.
I mean, not that I'd sit Markus but .. the outcome could have been different -- and certainly no worse than 1 point .. had Markus been done for the night.
When Markus returned, he lost that airball to the roof and then Gillespie knowing he had four fouls, just drove around him and scored an uncontested layup. Markus wasn't within three feet of him. That one hurt.
1) Too many turnovers
2) Too many Nova offensive rebounds
And despite that...
If the refs don't call two blatant BS blocks the wrong way, Markus goes to the line for 4 FTs (aka 4 points) and plays the final 8 minutes, not coming in at the end when he's been cooling his heels (and heater) for 5 minutes. Those two botched block calls swung the Big East title. Should be over.
Turnovers + steals differential tonight was 22-8. End of story.
If we cannot take care of the ball (value every possession) we are not going far.
Was actually stunned to see that (statistically) we won the rebounding. How many did we have in our hands and fumble?
Need to win out in BE.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 27, 2019, 10:49:16 PM
Personally, I thought the first one was an obvious block, the second was a charge, and the third was close but I thought it was block.
Agree. Twice guys slid under him while he was in the air. At least give him the bucket on the last one. The officials fell victim to the sentiment of Senior night
Quote from: 21rooster on February 27, 2019, 10:40:49 PM
I think it was fine to sit him. The defense was better, and the team held the lead. The problem is that Howard wasn't looking for the open man when he came back in. All of the good ball movement ended at that point.
Team was actually down when Markus went out - and 'Nova had the ball. When he re-entered we were up and had the ball. He made a bad pass to Joey for what was nearly a TO (great effort by Joey to get the ball back), then he went up for a shot and lost the ball. Pretty much downhill from there.
Quote from: IL Warrior on February 27, 2019, 10:49:05 PM
Huh? You can't be serious.
This year it pretty much is. Nevada and a bunch of meh? Its a super down year as a whole. And we are lucky it is that way
As much as I hated to see Markus get dinged for all the charges, the last 2 were kinda iffy, and he had a few similar situations break his way in the first half. There was some movement from defenders on at least 2 of the 3 called, but isn't the rule more about defensive position rather than being set?
And then there's the question of the offensive player's control to consider too. Markus does seem to jump in the air without any clear plan at times, and I don't know that tonight was a clear exception. I haven't seen replays, but I think he drove with his head down right at the defender on at least 1 of the calls tonight. That could play a role in the call too. Kind of like the inverse of the exaggerated head jerk he does when draws contact outside the 3 point line on offense.
I'm still annoyed he got called for 3 charges, but I don't think the calls were as egregious as others here.
Quote from: Mike Deane's Seat Belt on February 27, 2019, 10:56:47 PM
This year it pretty much is. Nevada and a bunch of meh? Its a super down year as a whole. And we are lucky it is that way
I know it's been a down year for the Big East, but come on. Only 5 of 11 MWC teams are above .500 on the year. San Jose State is 4-23 and Wyoming is 6-22. DePaul is the worst team in the Big East by KenPom at 122. That's better than 8/11 teams in the Mountain West.
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on February 27, 2019, 10:35:58 PM
Did you actually see Howard's fourth. Cremo's set; Howard jumps; Cremo shuffles three feet to his left; Howard called for the charge.
Agree on this one. definitely a block on Cremo. The other two were charges (IMO) but on one of them he released the ball before contact so the basket should have counted. Also thought Markus charged on the late block call on which Markus hurt his wrist.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 27, 2019, 11:07:52 PM
Agree on this one. definitely a block on Cremo. The other two were charges (IMO) but on one of them he released the ball before contact so the basket should have counted. Also thought Markus charged on the late block call on which Markus hurt his wrist.
The first and third were blocks. Second definitely a charge, and agreed on the late one where he hurt his wrist. But on that first one, the defender hadn't even slowed his motion yet when Markus was in the air.
Quote from: IrwinFletcher on February 27, 2019, 10:40:24 PM
Sam had a wide open look at the end and missed it. Would have tied the game I believe.
Yep, that was huge. Down 60-63 at the time. Wide open.
Quote from: IL Warrior on February 27, 2019, 10:49:05 PM
Huh? You can't be serious.
He's been a troll since he joined. Wouldn't worry about it
Quote from: Ellenson Guerrero on February 27, 2019, 10:20:38 PM
Jobbed by the refs on Howard's charges.
They were all legitimate.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 27, 2019, 11:10:52 PM
The first and third were blocks. Second definitely a charge, and agreed on the late one where he hurt his wrist. But on that first one, the defender hadn't even slowed his motion yet when Markus was in the air.
Maybe I'm remembering the first one incorrectly.
Just felt like a lot of the things that have been bouncing for us didn't bounce our way tonight—rebounds, loose balls, foul calls, and some jump shots that we've usually made. To have all those things happen and still have a chance to win in the last minute is no big deal, and maybe a good opportunity to reset the team.
Just hope that (1) Markus's hand/wrist is ok and (2) they don't get caught in a slide.
Quote from: Jockey on February 27, 2019, 11:25:25 PM
They were all legitimate.
There was only one I thought was bad. But on another one Markus made the shot well before the charge and it should have counted.
Sacar's travel was an awful call since he didn't have possession. Booth just shoved Anim to the ground with a chicken wing too.
But whatever. Even with the refs we couled have won the game. It's been a great season. We'll bounce back.
Quote from: tower912 on February 27, 2019, 10:14:56 PM4. Careless turnovers.
This should be #1 on the list. Marquette outshot Nova from 2-point range and beyond the arc. But we gave up 18 turnovers to just 7 for the Wildcats. Get back 5 or 6 of those possessions and MU most likely wins the game.
Literally gave this one away.
The point about offensive rebounding is well-taken. And too many ill-advised fouls, which limited Theo and Markus. All the same, we're still in the driver's seat for the conference championship. Get back to work, take care of our remaining business and bring home a Big East title.
Well, I enjoyed the season while it lasted.
Does anyone have a paper bag I can borrow?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/4bc57c8feab3030f3b7bb2b70ccf2c97/tenor.gif)
So our luck ran out last night. Wonder what our luck rating is on Monday.
I will not (and did not) lose too much sleep about losing to the defending national champs at home on Senior Night. We still control our own destiny and can even lose a game and still be Co-champs.
You know who should be losing sleep over that game? Nova.
They got a top ten win at home but looked terrible in doing so. Their senior leader went 3-18 from the floor, their 3-pt percentage was 28% (for a team that gets half of their points from 3), and they only shot 35% from the floor. They killed it on offensive rebound but only because their shots missed so badly and got lucky that we made a ton of unforced TOs. Plus maybe a little home cooking from the refs.
I'm not confident going into MSG or the NCAAs if I'm Nova, even after that win.
Quote from: Marcus92 on February 28, 2019, 12:11:06 AM
This should be #1 on the list. Marquette outshot Nova from 2-point range and beyond the arc. But we gave up 18 turnovers to just 7 for the Wildcats. Get back 5 or 6 of those possessions and MU most likely wins the game.
Literally gave this one away.
The point about offensive rebounding is well-taken. And too many ill-advised fouls, which limited Theo and Markus. All the same, we're still in the driver's seat for the conference championship. Get back to work, take care of our remaining business and bring home a Big East title.
This is number 1-11. That being 11 extra possessions for Nova nets you a L at their 1.05 PPP.
And when you have 11 extra possessions you get a lot more chances to get rebounds on misses, especially when you shoot just 34% like Nova did (and MU's 5s are in foul trouble from the get go).
From the first play when Gillespie tried the flop on Nova to the end, Nova targeted Markus. Kinda chippy and the refs allowed it. Not a fan.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 28, 2019, 06:20:48 AM
This is number 1-11. That being 11 extra possessions for Nova nets you a L at their 1.05 PPP.
And when you have 11 extra possessions you get a lot more chances to get rebounds on misses, especially when you shoot just 34% like Nova did (and MU's 5s are in foul trouble from the get go).
From the first play when Gillespie tried the flop on Nova to the end, Nova targeted Markus. Kinda chippy and the refs allowed it. Not a fan.
"Kinda"? Holy hell the hand checks and bumping with the body.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 28, 2019, 06:23:50 AM
"Kinda"? Holy hell the hand checks and bumping with the body.
You expect it in the BE--especially with Markus--but the game was not called evenly in the 2nd half. Nova doesn't get that treatment in the NCAA. They were definitely coached up. I thought the play where Markus hurt his wrist was borderline F1.
That said...the team adjusted...the difference was the turns. This is a couple of games now in a row of carelessness.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 27, 2019, 11:26:27 PM
Maybe I'm remembering the first one incorrectly.
The first one was borderline. College refs are going to screw that call up all the time. Saying it cost MU the game when they had the lead late in the second half is an exaggeration.
And I think the idea of not putting Markus back in is Monday Morning QBing at its finest. MU went up by five, but then Booth hit that long 3 just after Rafftery said that Nova was stagnant - huge play. Then MU had a bad possession where JC had to throw up a brick cause the shot clock was running out. On Nova's next possession, MU ended up getting the ball back on a tie up, but only after two offensive rebounds by Nova. After that tie-up, Markus came back.
Momentum had already started to swing. Every single coach in the country is going to put his potential All-American player back in the game at that point. Yeah he didn't perform well, but I would MUCH rather roll the dice with Markus there. He's the man.
A lot of misinformation in this thread on how charges work. Markus had 3 clear charges in the game. 1 was a block that was called a charge, but he also had a charge that was called a block so that evened out.
The narrative should really be about markus' ball control. 7 turnovers is a big part in that loss.
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2019, 10:47:20 PM
This is the most frustrating part. Sam was a different player tonight when Markus sat. Sam was the leader on offense, taking shots, keeping the offense moving. But when Markus came back in, Sam went back to a secondary role, and we relied too much on Markus.
With Sam having a tough defensive assignment tonight, I understand why he may may have been less of a focus on offense. But when he's hitting open looks, we may want to tweak the gameplan. We're versatile enough on offense that we can rely on multiple guys to score points. The team needs to be confident in that and not default to letting Markus take every shot late in close games.
Without Howard, this is a top 25 team in my opinion. We have a lot of very good players.
When Howard came off the bench he immediately made a terrible pass and then launched some ill advised shots. For whatever reason, you're right, at the end of games I'd rather have the ball in somebody else's hands.
I thought the bench played great last night
Quote from: MUMountin on February 27, 2019, 11:29:24 PM
Just felt like a lot of the things that have been bouncing for us didn't bounce our way tonight—rebounds, loose balls, foul calls, and some jump shots that we've usually made.
Yup, like the ball that got knocked loose when Booth(?) ran into Theo and the top on the lane and the ball rolled between Sam's legs and right to Samuel.
My point earlier about Wojo sitting Markus too long is not about how the team played while he sat. Markus was starting to do very Markus things before that 4th foul and it really felt like he was going to take over and carry us to a W. Unfortunately he sat so long that when he came back he'd completely lost his rhythm. It's a tough spot for Wojo when MH picks up his 4th but I don't think he needed to wait for the under 4 to get him back in
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 28, 2019, 08:12:09 AM
Without Howard, this is a top 25 team in my opinion. We have a lot of very good players.
When Howard came off the bench he immediately made a terrible pass and then launched some ill advised shots. For whatever reason, you're right, at the end of games I'd rather have the ball in somebody else's hands.
I thought the bench played great last night
No way. Markus was about to lay the hammer down, he was in a total zone until he had to sit. Came back in cold and wasn't in the same rhythm. Sh*t happens, but he was about to close that game out if not for foul trouble.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 28, 2019, 08:52:22 AM
My point earlier about Wojo sitting Markus too long is not about how the team played while he sat. Markus was starting to do very Markus things before that 4th foul and it really felt like he was going to take over and carry us to a W. Unfortunately he sat so long that when he came back he'd completely lost his rhythm. It's a tough spot for Wojo when MH picks up his 4th but I don't think he needed to wait for the under 4 to get him back in
I said this exact thing in the game chat. I said you role with him and if he picks up his 5th foul that so be it. At that point he wasn't going to be driving down the middle of the lane anyways he was going to be shooting 3's. I never understood that argument of keeping him out till the under 4 time out. It's possible we could have built a lead more than 5 with him in and if he fouled out then we would have had enough to sustain the lead.
This team is FAR from a top 25 team without howard, you really have to be kidding if you think we would be ranked without markus. We would have 7 losses or more like the rest of the big east for sure. Probably not even a tourney team without him.
Quote from: tower912 on February 27, 2019, 10:14:56 PM
1. Time to change the scouting report on Jermaine Samuels. Kid had a night.
2. Theo, Ed..... you are only beasts when you are on the floor. Touched on it in the Theo thread, have mentioned it many times. Right now, IMO, Theo is block happy and it is falling for pump fakes, getting out of position for rebounds. But I also firmly believe that he will get better.
3. Markus can shoot a little bit. But Nova had a really good scouting report and did a great job of stepping in and taking charges. Great way to take a scorer out of the game. Can't argue with any of the calls. But it did look a little like a Wisconsin game with all of the flopping.
4. Careless turnovers. Again. Offensive rebounds surrendered. Again.
5. I really wish that Greg was available. Hasn't hurt a ton this year. IMO, it did tonight.
6. Gus with the multiple Steve Novak references.
7. Marquette is a tough minded, fearless team. Tough minded. Fearless.
8. And so is Villanova.
9. Senior night. Defending national champs. Crowd roaring. Unexpected contributor for the defending national champs. Poor defensive rebounding at crunch time. Couldn't hit the big shot. Missed FT's at crunch time. Oops. Hat tipped.
10. Now bounce back and don't let this become a streak.
On point summary as always Tower.
1. Jean Felix redux?
Quote from: skianth16 on February 27, 2019, 10:47:20 PM
This is the most frustrating part. Sam was a different player tonight when Markus sat. Sam was the leader on offense, taking shots, keeping the offense moving. But when Markus came back in, Sam went back to a secondary role, and we relied too much on Markus.
With Sam having a tough defensive assignment tonight, I understand why he may may have been less of a focus on offense. But when he's hitting open looks, we may want to tweak the gameplan. We're versatile enough on offense that we can rely on multiple guys to score points. The team needs to be confident in that and not default to letting Markus take every shot late in close games.
Agree, however, Is it Wojo's game plan to have Marcus take control or is it Sam deferring to Marcus at the end of the game? Both are great players. Marcus has the shots and the moves. Sam has better team play and judgement and it shows at the end of games.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on February 28, 2019, 09:14:25 AM
No way. Markus was about to lay the hammer down, he was in a total zone until he had to sit. Came back in cold and wasn't in the same rhythm. Sh*t happens, but he was about to close that game out if not for foul trouble.
This is true. But...unfortunately the zone that Markus was in included running full speed into crowded lanes in addition to the great shooting. Theo takes a lot of heat on this board for doing things that he should know are going to be called. We can debate whether the calls against Markus were good or bad (I think it was a mix), but he needs to be aware of how they are calling the game and conform to that. They weren't letting him get away with the contact, so he should have avoided it. As someone else said, he's lucky he didn't get called for a fifth on the play when he was injured.
Quote from: Class71 on February 28, 2019, 10:06:22 AM
Agree, however, Is it Wojo's game plan to have Marcus take control or is it Sam deferring to Marcus at the end of the game? Both are great players. Marcus has the shots and the moves. Sam has better team play and judgement and it shows at the end of games.
Not sure what Sam deferring to Markus even means. Markus always has the ball. How can Sam defer when the decision is Markus'? I like when Sam backs his guy down, we never seem to do that at the end.
Not complaining mind you, because Markus is really good. Its just that Sam has the ball in his hands a lot more when Markus is not in the game and thus can choose to defer.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 28, 2019, 08:52:22 AM
My point earlier about Wojo sitting Markus too long is not about how the team played while he sat. Markus was starting to do very Markus things before that 4th foul and it really felt like he was going to take over and carry us to a W. Unfortunately he sat so long that when he came back he'd completely lost his rhythm. It's a tough spot for Wojo when MH picks up his 4th but I don't think he needed to wait for the under 4 to get him back in
I suspect they probably planned to bring him back sooner, but the guys out there were more than holding their own.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 28, 2019, 08:52:22 AM
My point earlier about Wojo sitting Markus too long is not about how the team played while he sat. Markus was starting to do very Markus things before that 4th foul and it really felt like he was going to take over and carry us to a W. Unfortunately he sat so long that when he came back he'd completely lost his rhythm. It's a tough spot for Wojo when MH picks up his 4th but I don't think he needed to wait for the under 4 to get him back in
This is my thought, exactly. But I think there is something else to consider with the reffing. Allowing players to slide over when the opponent with the ball has left his feet is a dangerous practice - someone is going to get hurt. The first charge called was the one where Markus had already made the shot when he made contact with the player that was set. If that had appropriately been called a block and an and-1, I don't think Nova would've tried it again. Since they got the charge, they continued to try it and on #4, Markus hurt his wrist. It absolutely should not have been allowed.
However, I agree with those of you that say Nova had a mandate to win tonight, and everybody in the arena knew that except MU. Only 6 Nova fouls in the second half? Seriously??