1. Oh, yeah, THAT Joe Chartouny.
2. Oh, yeah, THAT Brendan Bailey
3. Imagine how it would have gone if Markus and Sam had normal nights. Mark(lang)us Sam (Brick) Hauser. At least for tonight.
4. Defense has now looked good in 5.5 games. Very good tonight.
5. Still too many careless turnovers. 'Careless' being the operative word.
6. And BTW, Ed, when you commit a dumb third foul, immediately following it with an even dumber 4th foul is not a good look.
7. MU did what it was supposed to do to a decent cupcake. And they did it without Markus or Sam being at their best. It really could not have gone better from a coaching and team building standpoint.
8. Haters really going to have to work to hate tonight. I have little doubt they will find a way.
9. On to K-state
10. Shame on me. Wojo just said that Markus has the flu and was puking in the locker room at half time.
11. And he says the team has to quit going for home runs and settle for some singles, when it comes to making smart passes.
A quibble on #3 -- Sam had 12 points on 7 shots. I'll take that on an off night.
Very good defensive effort. Nice to see BB and JC settle in and play excellent games. Hopefully M2N gets rid of the bug in time for Saturday.
The biggest thing I would love to see more of is that once a ball gets into the paint kick it back out to open shooters - especially on drives. Case in point in the 1st half tonight, Scar (aka McNeal head down black hole driver) gets to the paint only to force a tough contested layup across his body instead of kicking it to Sam who was wide open in the corner he heading towards for a step in 3pt shot. I think once the team starts getting reversals and kickouts going (both off drives and entry passes) the offense will click.
Need to cut down the turnovers, some of which were really stupid. 19 in total, anything like that against KSU and its a loss.
I thought tonight was the first game that Brendan looked good.
Turnovers are frustrating, but more than that are the wasted possessions where we fail to make that one extra pass. We're good enough where we don't need to be settling.
My only complaint were the TV announcers.
"Theo John, not to be confused with Little John of Robin Hood fame."
and my favorite: "Look at that patience in the lane. You can't teach that." (I mean, you literally *have* to teach that. It's not a inherited trait.)
We won.
We played down to our competition at times.
We were really sloppy at times in the second half, when the game was over.
We need 40 minutes every night. Tonight, we had about 28-32. Better but not where it should be.
Quote from: dgies9156 on November 27, 2018, 09:09:29 PM
We won.
We played down to our competition at times.
We were really sloppy at times in the second half, when the game was over.
We need 40 minutes every night. Tonight, we had about 28-32. Better but not where it should be.
Sloppy when the lineup was all bench players and Joey? That's okay.
Great summary, Tower. I chuckled at reading "Mark(lang)us." You probably won't get many chances to use that one. (And he still shot 36% from beyond the arc.) Chartouny's confidence was good to see. In addition to all the steals, I loved it when he motioned for a screener from the low block, as if he was going to drive -- then pulled up and nailed a three. Killer play.
This was a good, complete game tonight. Defense played well, some of our late bloomers showed promise, and we controlled every aspect of the game. Can't ask for much more against a cupcake. Really happy to see Brendan get a few additions to the highlight reel tonight too. This is a good game for him to build on.
A couple things I think worth noting:
- Even when Markus is sick he's still throwing up 14 3s? That leash isn't long, it's completely gone. If ever there were a game for others to be more involved and Markus to take a backseat, it was tonight. Is he less disciplined this year? Maybe just forcing too much? Possibly just the Rowsey effect?
- When will Jamal get out of the dog house? He had so much promise last year, and he's still one of our best athletes, but he just can't seem to stay on the floor.
When Jamal finally came into the game during the second half, my friend noted how Sam took a moment to give him some advice/encouragement before the inbounds. Hopefully that's a small sign of Sam stepping up as a team leader.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 27, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
This was a good, complete game tonight. Defense played well, some of our late bloomers showed promise, and we controlled every aspect of the game. Can't ask for much more against a cupcake. Really happy to see Brendan get a few additions to the highlight reel tonight too. This is a good game for him to build on.
A couple things I think worth noting:
- Even when Markus is sick he's still throwing up 14 3s? That leash isn't long, it's completely gone. If ever there were a game for others to be more involved and Markus to take a backseat, it was tonight. Is he less disciplined this year? Maybe just forcing too much? Possibly just the Rowsey effect?
- When will Jamal get out of the dog house? He had so much promise last year, and he's still one of our best athletes, but he just can't seem to stay on the floor.
Most of Markus' shots were wide open. He has to shoot them. He still shot 36% from 3. That is an eFG% of 54%.
Jamal wasn't in the doghouse tonight. Bailey was just playing tremendously well.
Loved seeing some of the other guys really step up tonight. Outlook is good.
Play of the game was Cain's block off the glass near the end of the game
Quote from: tower912 on November 27, 2018, 08:51:55 PM
1. Oh, yeah, THAT Joe Chartouny.
2. Oh, yeah, THAT Brendan Bailey
3. Imagine how it would have gone if Markus and Sam had normal nights. Mark(lang)us Sam (Brick) Hauser. At least for tonight.
4. Defense has now looked good in 5.5 games. Very good tonight.
5. Still too many careless turnovers. 'Careless' being the operative word.
6. And BTW, Ed, when you commit a dumb third foul, immediately following it with an even dumber 4th foul is not a good look.
7. MU did what it was supposed to do to a decent cupcake. And they did it without Markus or Sam being at their best. It really could not have gone better from a coaching and team building standpoint.
8. Haters really going to have to work to hate tonight. I have little doubt they will find a way.
9. On to K-state
10. Shame on me. Wojo just said that Markus has the flu and was puking in the locker room at half time.
11. And he says the team has to quit going for home runs and settle for some singles, when it comes to making smart passes.
FIRE WOJO. We had 19 turnovers! Sam didn't have a double double! No player development!
We ate a cupcake just like we should. Great.
Now let's beat K-State and get back to .500 in games that matter.
It was a bit crazy with how many long aggressive passes, even cross court, that they tossed around in this game. Not usually a big fan of that unless it's a wide open pass... but I did think it showed how much more they were looking around for the open man last night. If they could reign it in just a little bit, since I saw numerous passes picked off, I find this a promising development.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 27, 2018, 11:10:31 PM
A couple things I think worth noting:
- Even when Markus is sick he's still throwing up 14 3s? That leash isn't long, it's completely gone. If ever there were a game for others to be more involved and Markus to take a backseat, it was tonight. Is he less disciplined this year? Maybe just forcing too much? Possibly just the Rowsey effect?
Don't focus on the number. Focus on the quality. Very few of them were forced. A couple of his misses were WIDE open. I'll live with that.
Quote from: GoldenEagle323 on November 28, 2018, 12:12:39 AM
Play of the game was Cain's block off the glass near the end of the game
He played real good down the stretch of the game. Hopefully that will keep him going.
Didn't take long to count the 146 students in the Arby's section.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 07:54:52 AM
Don't focus on the number. Focus on the quality. Very few of them were forced. A couple of his misses were WIDE open. I'll live with that.
Chartouny had at least three assists he didn't get because Markus missed wide open jumpers JC set him up for. Joey had another two wide open misses on threes from JC & a runner in the lane that went in and out while Morrow missed a no-footer. As good as JC was last night, it would've been a 35+ point blowout if guys had finished the easy looks he created.
I love JC's old school bounce passing by the way. You just don't see that stuff as much anymore.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 08:17:19 AM
I love JC's old school bounce passing by the way. You just don't see that stuff as much anymore.
That one bounce pass to MH in the corner had a beautiful amount of side sauce on it.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on November 28, 2018, 07:56:06 AM
Didn't take long to count the 146 students in the Arby's section.
The cumulative effect of being an average team for most of the past 6 years seems to have created a certain apathy among the students. Maybe they'll show up for the next two Saturday games.
they showed up pretty well the first 2 games and very well Nov 10 (saturday). Not surprising a cupcake on a tuesday did not yield same results. i would expect the next 2 saturday games to be well attended.
Not bothered by good shooters missing good shots. The TO number was alarming, but MU got whatever they wanted.
That officiating crew of Breeding, Chiazza, and Driscoll was... something. I would have gotten a T if I was Wojo and Breeding yelled at my guys the way he did in the second half. Pathetic official.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 07:54:52 AM
Don't focus on the number. Focus on the quality. Very few of them were forced. A couple of his misses were WIDE open. I'll live with that.
That's fair. The box score did look a lot more unbalanced that I remembered Markus' game being last night. I guess it wasn't. Someone else pointed out how high his efg was, and I think that tells a pretty good story too.
Went to my first game last night and not much change of my opinion on this team. The half court offense needs a ton of work. I only got frustrated once last night, which is an improvement, and that was more at the fans than the team. On one possession , after pissing away 32 seconds, Joe C launches a 28 footer that bounces in, my wife and others are clapping loudly like it was a great possession.
I have my fingers crossed that they can win one or two of the upcoming games and see what happens from there. Have said several times, but Morrow is the key to success, IMO. I know everyone loves John, but Morrow is the best big man on the team. I am hoping he plays like it moving forward.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2018, 08:06:37 AM
Chartouny had at least three assists he didn't get because Markus missed wide open jumpers JC set him up for. Joey had another two wide open misses on threes from JC & a runner in the lane that went in and out while Morrow missed a no-footer. As good as JC was last night, it would've been a 35+ point blowout if guys had finished the easy looks he created.
JC also had 7 steals!
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2018, 09:47:47 AMOn one possession , after pissing away 32 seconds, Joe C launches a 28 footer that bounces in, my wife and others are clapping loudly like it was a great possession.
I cheered that, but more the improbability of it. I was laughing as I clapped. From my angle, looked like it was bouncing well out, then somehow fell back in. I think the fans were more cheering the incredible bounce than the possession on the whole.
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2018, 09:47:47 AM
I have my fingers crossed that they can win one or two of the upcoming games and see what happens from there. Have said several times, but Morrow is the key to success, IMO. I know everyone loves John, but Morrow is the best big man on the team. I am hoping he plays like it moving forward.
Morrow has great flashes at times, but he's still too inconsistent. If Theo can get a little better at knowing when to kick the ball back out and cut down on some bad fouls, he's very capable of being the leading big man. Ed may be ahead of him skillset-wise today, but by the time conference play rolls around, I see Theo getting the lion's share of the minutes.
To me, Ed plays smaller than he is, kind of the opposite of Jae. Ed is this big, imposing guy, but he doesn't play like a bruiser. That could change, and going up against Theo every day in practice could easily lead to Ed becoming more physcial. But for now, his style doesn't seem to match his build. And ultimately, I see that being a key reason why Theo will become our primary big.
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2018, 09:47:47 AM
Went to my first game last night and not much change of my opinion on this team. The half court offense needs a ton of work. I only got frustrated once last night, which is an improvement, and that was more at the fans than the team. On one possession , after pissing away 32 seconds, Joe C launches a 28 footer that bounces in, my wife and others are clapping loudly like it was a great possession.
Thats what fans do. We applaud when a player can redeem a bad possession by making a tough shot. The same phenomenom happens in baseball all the time. My experience is that most so called "web gems", the best defensive plays, usually occur because the fielder was out of position. If the fielder was in the correct position it would have been a routine out instead of requiring a low probabilty play.
It's the same reason I didn't get bent out of shape about the first half of the Presbyterian game. We had good possessions that resulted in open looks, we just couldn't hit the shots. Only a matter of time before the shots started to fall.
Agreed on Theos passing. The ball is stopping with him. Part of that is he isn't dominant enough to demand a double team or help defense. If we can establish him early in games, it may coax the other team to send some help which will free up our shooters
Marquette doesnt deserve an SOTG. The only reason that they won is because Charleston Southern is trash. Marquette players played like crap and honestly Im suprised that Wojo didnt get out-coached. Too bad Marcus didnt tear his ACL but there is still hope for Saturday. Cant wait for us to get pounded up the butt all season long in the post starting with wade then happ and so on
Oh, marquetterk24, I can't quit you.
Quote from: marquetterk24 on November 28, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
Marquette doesnt deserve an SOTG. The only reason that they won is because Charleston Southern is trash. Marquette players played like crap and honestly Im suprised that Wojo didnt get out-coached. Too bad Marcus didnt tear his ACL but there is still hope for Saturday. Cant wait for us to get pounded up the butt all season long in the post starting with wade then happ and so on
Four to five posts to judge?
I'm all for letting obvious trollers troll, and in some ways the new content is refreshing (4 year old re-runs just don't do it anymore), but lets not wish injury on any student athlete. Stick to criticizing the players, coaches, program, stadium, campus, mascot etc. There should be more than enough content to remain entertaining, without being cynical.
I've been reported!
(https://i.imgur.com/uadZVL1.png)
I know plenty about basketball, the apex of which is not to let the paint dry when running the picket fence.
Quote from: marquetterk24 on November 28, 2018, 10:12:47 AM
Marquette doesnt deserve an SOTG. The only reason that they won is because Charleston Southern is trash. Marquette players played like crap and honestly Im suprised that Wojo didnt get out-coached. Too bad Marcus didnt tear his ACL but there is still hope for Saturday. Cant wait for us to get pounded up the butt all season long in the post starting with wade then happ and so on
So you admit Wojo out coached someone...point Wojo
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 28, 2018, 10:20:26 AM
Four to five posts to judge?
Lol, this dude's post history is a work of art ;D
Troll has been banned.
skianth16
I think you are overestimating John's upside, especially on the offensive side of the ball and ability to avoid stupid fouls. Honestly, he is done far better than I expected out of him, but seriously question how much higher ceiling with him.
Quote from: SoCalwarrior on November 28, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
Troll has been banned.
Nooooo! I had reason to believe that was John Dawson's Uncle. He had some serious insight
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2018, 10:04:47 AM
I cheered that, but more the improbability of it. I was laughing as I clapped. From my angle, looked like it was bouncing well out, then somehow fell back in. I think the fans were more cheering the incredible bounce than the possession on the whole.
Yep. I was amazed that the shot went in. It all but defied the laws of physics.
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2018, 09:47:47 AM
Went to my first game last night and not much change of my opinion on this team. The half court offense needs a ton of work. I only got frustrated once last night, which is an improvement, and that was more at the fans than the team. On one possession , after pissing away 32 seconds, Joe C launches a 28 footer that bounces in, my wife and others are clapping loudly like it was a great possession.
I have my fingers crossed that they can win one or two of the upcoming games and see what happens from there. Have said several times, but Morrow is the key to success, IMO. I know everyone loves John, but Morrow is the best big man on the team. I am hoping he plays like it moving forward.
Saturday will give everyone a good barometer of where we are. Very little to take away from cupcake games.
A cupcake game with cupcake results. No surprises which is a good thing.
Good to see JC getting more and more comfortable on the floor. His defensive forte finally came through but more importantly he is taking shots he should take instead of passing them by.
Morrow is getting there. Not as fast as JC but definitely need him to up his game as soon as possible but stop with the dumb fouls.
Sorry to see Cain in the doghouse. Great ability. I hope he sees more playing time and while Bailey had a good game and you can see his raw potential, I prefer to have Cain out there.
79Warrior
Spot on. If I did not have the tickets in my pocket and work a mile from the Fiserv, I would have skipped the cupcake last night. It is impossible to make intelligent analysis, good or bad, in a game like that. I am looking forward to Saturday and hoping more folks show up for the game.
Quote from: SoCalwarrior on November 28, 2018, 10:32:25 AM
Troll has been banned.
(http://media1.tenor.com/images/11baffb759ae7ca9d984153cf53a7768/tenor.gif?itemid=8540510)
Quote from: mufanatic on November 28, 2018, 10:53:04 AM
Sorry to see Cain in the doghouse. Great ability. I hope he sees more playing time and while Bailey had a good game and you can see his raw potential, I prefer to have Cain out there.
So much more competition on the wing now with adding Bailey and Joey and in certain sense Ed, without subtracting anyone, that whoever is playing best is going to get floor time. There is going to be a crunch for time and someone is going to be the odd man out, and I doubt it will be Joey unless he gets in foul trouble.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 28, 2018, 11:36:19 AM
So much more competition on the wing now with adding Bailey and Joey and in certain sense Ed, without subtracting anyone, that whoever is playing best is going to get floor time. There is going to be a crunch for time and someone is going to be the odd man out, and I doubt it will be Joey unless he gets in foul trouble.
Awful take. Need to play the starter 40 min no matter what they do on the court. Don't kill their confidence by pulling them under any circumstance
I don't think we can say Cain is in the doghouse. Wojo is on record as saying that starting spots are used to reward strong practice. Cain wouldn't have gotten those starts if he was in Wojo's doghouse.
There's a lot of depth but no standout players at the wing on this roster. Minutes are going to be earned. Whoever is playing the best of Sacar, Joey, Brendan, and Cain will get minutes. The night it was Joey and Brendan. I bet at other times this season it will be Sacar and Cain.
Also, as Ed gets more acclimated and starts to demand minutes he might play at the 4 which pushes Sam to the 3 which means even more competition for the wings.
Plus, our best lineup seems to feature both Markus and Joe. So when they are out there that means that four players are competing for time at the 3.
Oh and Greg will likely return in the next few weeks...adding another mouth to feed.
It's a great problem to have. The best players will rise to the top.
Quote from: Goose on November 28, 2018, 10:34:36 AM
skianth16
I think you are overestimating John's upside, especially on the offensive side of the ball and ability to avoid stupid fouls. Honestly, he is done far better than I expected out of him, but seriously question how much higher ceiling with him.
I doubt Theo hits his ceiling halfway through his sophomore year. The things that he has issues with are coachable. If he is able to raise his basketball IQ just a little and begin to see the court outside the paint a little better, he's got the potential to be a very solid big. You can't teach toughness, and he's the leader on this team in the regard. That alone is going to continue to earn him minutes, especially in conference play.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 28, 2018, 11:52:20 AM
I don't think we can say Cain is in the doghouse. Wojo is on record as saying that starting spots are used to reward strong practice. Cain wouldn't have gotten those starts if he was in Wojo's doghouse.
There's a lot of depth but no standout players at the wing on this roster. Minutes are going to be earned. Whoever is playing the best of Sacar, Joey, Brendan, and Cain will get minutes. The night it was Joey and Brendan. I bet at other times this season it will be Sacar and Cain.
Also, as Ed gets more acclimated and starts to demand minutes he might play at the 4 which pushes Sam to the 3 which means even more competition for the wings.
Plus, our best lineup seems to feature both Markus and Joe. So when they are out there that means that four players are competing for time at the 3.
Oh and Greg will likely return in the next few weeks...adding another mouth to feed.
It's a great problem to have. The best players will rise to the top.
I think its pretty clear that Wojo has a ton of trust in Joey. Just like Sam, its going to be tough for Wojo to take him out of the game for any extended period of time.
When Joey starts finishing with more authority around the rim - wow he is going to be good. He's just so smooth out there. A little slow footed at times, but I think that will improve.
Joey needs to grab the ball when it touches his hand. A few rebounds he has that just roll away from him (especially in the last moments against Louisville)
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 28, 2018, 12:06:48 PM
I think its pretty clear that Wojo has a ton of trust in Joey. Just like Sam, its going to be tough for Wojo to take him out of the game for any extended period of time.
When Joey starts finishing with more authority around the rim - wow he is going to be good. He's just so smooth out there. A little slow footed at times, but I think that will improve.
This is why I would like to see us generally be more deliberate on offense. I think Chartouny, the Hausers, and even Howard benefit from a slower pace. We have plenty of skill and generally high basketball IQs, but aren't loaded with quickness. A slower offensive pace could allow our attributes to shine.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2018, 11:50:32 AM
Awful take. Need to play the starter 40 min no matter what they do on the court. Don't kill their confidence by pulling them under any circumstance
This is true. A Wisconsin HS basketball player once opined that if just John Dawson got "run" he'd be Magic Johnson. Can't argue with that "fact".
Quote from: fjm on November 28, 2018, 12:09:23 PM
Joey needs to grab the ball when it touches his hand. A few rebounds he has that just roll away from him (especially in the last moments against Louisville)
I agree on this. The one thing I noted last night is that Joey's hands are too soft. He needs to grab the ball and hold onto it like a vise. Too many rebounds slipping through his hands, too many balls taken out of his hands. Hope he works on that and improves this year.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on November 28, 2018, 01:11:40 PM
I agree on this. The one thing I noted last night is that Joey's hands are too soft. He needs to grab the ball and hold onto it like a vise. Too many rebounds slipping through his hands, too many balls taken out of his hands. Hope he works on that and improves this year.
Agreed. When Theo gets a board, it's two hands on the ball and nobody else is getting it. I've noticed Joey losing a rebound in just about every game.
How'd you like in the first half when they cut it to 4-5, wojo's ATO was a post play for Joey and he went to work for the easy 2? Beautiful. To give it to a freshman when we needed a bucket and he gets it done is a thing of beauty.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on November 28, 2018, 01:11:40 PM
I agree on this. The one thing I noted last night is that Joey's hands are too soft. He needs to grab the ball and hold onto it like a vise. Too many rebounds slipping through his hands, too many balls taken out of his hands. Hope he works on that and improves this year.
Hard biceps, soft hands.
Quote from: HammerScreen on November 28, 2018, 01:15:48 PM
Agreed. When Theo gets a board, it's two hands on the ball and nobody else is getting it.
Not really. He's not very strong with the ball either - but better than Joey is at this point.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 01:16:53 PM
Not really. He's not very strong with the ball either - but better than Joey is at this point.
Eh maybe you're right. This team sucks at rebounding
Last night was the first time we saw a combination of bigs in the game, with both Matt and Ed in for a short stretch. I know I'm in the minority, but I think that this can be an effective lineup in the future. The biggest knock on Theo right now is that the ball stops with him, almost exact opposite with Matt. I also think that Ed has held his ground surprisingly well against true centers thus far this year, but if he can play the 4, he should be able to get some match-ups that he can really abuse in the post. It also could allow Sam to spend some time at the 3, where he can also get favorable match-ups. Shouldn't be used all the time, but there are certainly stretches where I think it can be very effective.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on November 28, 2018, 12:06:48 PM
I think its pretty clear that Wojo has a ton of trust in Joey. Just like Sam, its going to be tough for Wojo to take him out of the game for any extended period of time.
When Joey starts finishing with more authority around the rim - wow he is going to be good. He's just so smooth out there. A little slow footed at times, but I think that will improve.
Agreed. I feel pretty strongly that the Howard/Hauser/Hauser trio will become the core everything else revolves around as the season moves on. Everyone else will still be vital, but the bulk of our success/shortfall will come from the 3Hs.
Quote from: HammerScreen on November 28, 2018, 01:21:30 PM
Eh maybe you're right. This team sucks at rebounding
Agree with you there. Everytime we are grabbing a defensive rebound it seemingly looks like we are going to drop it, fumble it, whatever. Maybe I just watch too much NBA.
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 28, 2018, 01:05:16 PM
This is true. A Wisconsin HS basketball player once opined that if just John Dawson got "run" he'd be Magic Johnson. Can't argue with that "fact".
Obsessed much? Please go re-post where I said that. I can't wait for you the self-stated arbiter of what a "fact" is, to support your ridiculous post.
You should really stick to topics you might actually know a little something about - perhaps politics? You are a profound political poster in the Super Bar. As it relates to basketball? You are *literally* the one of the most misguided among the "Scoop Intelligencia."
However, I do admire your continued ability to embrace mediocrity.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 28, 2018, 01:27:50 PM
Obsessed much? Please go re-post where I said that. I can't wait for you the self-stated arbiter of what a "fact" is, to support your ridiculous post.
You should really stick to topics you might actually know a little something about - perhaps politics? You are a profound political poster in the Super Bar. As it relates to basketball? You are *literally* the one of the most misguided among the "Scoop Intelligencia."
However, I do admire your continued ability to embrace mediocrity.
People might take the time to find your specific posts and quote them from the past, but it's really hard to keep track which username it was under with you.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Agree with you there. Everytime we are grabbing a defensive rebound it seemingly looks like we are going to drop it, fumble it, whatever. Maybe I just watch too much NBA.
That's the one place Jamal Cain stands out positively. He does well corralling and securing rebounds.
Quote from: LoudMouth on November 28, 2018, 10:41:05 AM
Nooooo! I had reason to believe that was John Dawson's Uncle. He had some serious insight
Ners has surely already befriended him on facebook so his insights can live on vicariously through Ners
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2018, 03:04:46 PM
That's the one place Jamal Cain stands out positively. He does well corralling and securing rebounds.
Agreed! Not to mention he secures them when the ball is 11 feet off the ground. He gets UP
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 28, 2018, 11:50:32 AM
Awful take. Need to play the starter 40 min no matter what they do on the court. Don't kill their confidence by pulling them under any circumstance
As someone who didn't get to watch the game last night and was enjoying the info shared on this thread, I found this post to be nothing more than an unfunny, unprovoked attack that took away from a good and civil discussion. As Chief Brody said in
Jaws, "That's not funny, that's not funny at all."
It was funny.
I laughed
Quote from: Research Report on November 28, 2018, 06:45:01 PM
As someone who didn't get to watch the game last night and was enjoying the info shared on this thread, I found this post to be nothing more than an unfunny, unprovoked attack that took away from a good and civil discussion. As Chief Brody said in Jaws, "That's not funny, that's not funny at all."
So you got a new handle there MUFINY?
Quote from: TSmith34 on November 28, 2018, 08:56:17 PM
So you got a new handle there MUFINY?
MUFINY is Herman Cain. Pretty sure that's AnotherMU84/Heisenburg/TooManyToList
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 28, 2018, 09:28:24 PM
MUFINY is Herman Cain. Pretty sure that's AnotherMU84/Heisenburg/TooManyToList
Good lord, I'm not Heisenberg. Have you seen me starting a million threads? I'm just a longtime lurker. It was frustrating to see an interesting discussion get derailed by someone trying to bait Ners into yet another Dawson/Deonte argument.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 28, 2018, 01:26:18 PM
Agree with you there. Everytime we are grabbing a defensive rebound it seemingly looks like we are going to drop it, fumble it, whatever. Maybe I just watch too much NBA.
Roster issue. We lack in athleticism/quick twitch athletes. Millisecond too slow, frequently. What's most concerning is that it was evident against Charleston Southern.
Turning the ball over 19 times on your home court against a team with 7 freshman, 5 sophomores, that plays only 1 Junior and is 341st in the country in Experience category is concerning.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 09:30:00 AM
Roster issue. We lack in athleticism/quick twitch athletes. Millisecond too slow, frequently. What's most concerning is that it was evident against Charleston Southern.
Turning the ball over 19 times on your home court against a team with 7 freshman, 5 sophomores, that plays only 1 Junior and is 341st in the country in Experience category is concerning.
True. That's not great.
Not great but I think it's fair to say that some of the turnovers were playing down to their competition. They made a lot of unnecessary home run passes that I don't think they try against legit competition. For example, they had 9 turnovers against Louisville, 2 of which were offensive fouls.
To be clear, not saying that taking care of the ball is not an issue for this team. It clearly is. I just think a few of the turnovers against Charleston Southern were the result of them taking risks they knew they could afford because it was a blowout against a cupcake.
IIRC, Markus had a TO on the 1st possession of each half. I liked Wojo's mention of too many home runs and not enough singles.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on November 29, 2018, 10:04:31 AM
IIRC, Markus had a TO on the 1st possession of each half. I liked Wojo's mention of too many home runs and not enough singles.
This team is at its best in half-court sets when Chartouny is the primary ballhandler. He sees things other guys simply don't. I laughed the other night when he made a beautiful bounce pass to Ed, then as Ed drove he tried whipping just as fancy a pass to the corner and threw it right to the CSU defender while also committing a charge. All I could think was "dude, that's Chartouny's game, not yours."
It surprised me that even in the second half against CSU, there were times Markus was bringing it up with Chartouny playing off the ball. Not sure what to make of that. Regardless, we aren't much of a transition team. Slowing the pace and being more deliberate on both ends is what will give us success.
Charleston Southern is one of the best teams at turning over their opponents in the country.
Quote from: Sultan of South Wayne on November 27, 2018, 09:08:14 PM
My only complaint were the TV announcers.
"Theo John, not to be confused with Little John of Robin Hood fame."
and my favorite: "Look at that patience in the lane. You can't teach that." (I mean, you literally *have* to teach that. It's not a inherited trait.)
Yeah, they were pretty bad. But I did like that one of them mentioned that 'Chartouny should be bringing up the ball; Howard needs to play off the ball'. Best thing they said all night.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 10:52:00 AM
Charleston Southern is one of the best teams at turning over their opponents in the country.
Well, 55th anyways.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 29, 2018, 10:34:15 AM
It surprised me that even in the second half against CSU, there were times Markus was bringing it up with Chartouny playing off the ball. Not sure what to make of that.
I suspect Markus is getting reps handling the ball now to be better prepared for conference play to spell JC, especially considering Greg's injury.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on November 29, 2018, 10:56:57 AM
Well, 55th anyways.
Through 11/27 they were averaging forcing 20.57 turnovers/game, good for 3rd in the NCAA behind FIU and UNO.
They are 24th best in turnover margin (and Presbyterian is 2nd best).
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 10:52:00 AM
Charleston Southern is one of the best teams at turning over their opponents in the country.
I feel better. Thanks.
Or wait they've played:
Columbia International (NON D1)
22 Florida (who committed 8 turnovers against them)
344 South Carolina State
191 Middle Tennessee State (17 turnovers forced)
Trinity Baptist (NON D1)
351 Coppin State
Love how far you are willing to go to grasp at straws to justify our team's "performance."
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
I feel better. Thanks.
Or wait they've played:
Columbia International (NON D1)
22 Florida (who committed 8 turnovers against them)
344 South Carolina State
191 Middle Tennessee State (17 turnovers forced)
Trinity Baptist (NON D1)
351 Coppin State
Love how far you are willing to go to grasp at straws to justify our team's "performance."
So they aren't one of the best teams at turning over their opponents in the country? Got it. Thanks Ners! Glad the Minoqua North coach instilled such a high understanding of the game of basketball in you!
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
I feel better. Thanks.
Or wait they've played:
Columbia International (NON D1)
22 Florida (who committed 8 turnovers against them)
344 South Carolina State
191 Middle Tennessee State (17 turnovers forced)
Trinity Baptist (NON D1)
351 Coppin State
Love how far you are willing to go to grasp at straws to justify our team's "performance."
I don't get it. He went off the stats that are there. What are you basing it off of?
Quote from: fjm on November 29, 2018, 11:30:37 AM
I don't get it. He went off the stats that are there. What are you basing it off of?
When he was asked why he only commented on threads that have to do with the games we just played when it's a game we lost Ners claimed it was because our opponent sucked and there was nothing to conclude about the game because of that (except that Joe can play against mid to low majors and he hopes he proves he can do so against high majors too).
But now he wants to go and conclude that we suck because we had 19 turnovers in the game, despite claiming there was nothing to conclude about the Charleston Southern game.
But then when it's pointed out that Charleston Southern turns their opponents over quite often, he claims that stat doesn't count because their opponents suck.
It's what he does. He zigs and then zags and then zigs and then zags to fit an agenda. And with every turn, I laugh harder and harder.
I was going to ask him if he wanted to put down a month Scoop ban on over/under 18.5 turnovers against KState since he's so concerned about the 19 turnovers we had against a far lesser opponent in Charleston Southern, but we all know how Ners and bans end up, so even if I win there's 0 chance he pays out on that bet. We'd just have another "new" poster on Scoop within a week. I will give Ners credit that, unlike Chicos, at least he won't pretend he isn't Ners. Because to do that he'd have to claim that there's another Marquette fan in this world that has laced up some basketball shoes at some point in his life, which is obviously not possible.
Quote from: Eldon on November 29, 2018, 10:52:33 AM
Yeah, they were pretty bad. But I did like that one of them mentioned that 'Chartouny should be bringing up the ball; Howard needs to play off the ball'. Best thing they said all night.
I think Stephen Howard played for DePaul when Joey was coaching.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 11:26:59 AM
So they aren't one of the best teams at turning over their opponents in the country? Got it. Thanks Ners! Glad the Minoqua North coach instilled such a high understanding of the game of basketball in you!
Do you realize what a pud you come off as with your repeated Minoqua North/Nimrod/Northwoods etc., references? (Which is wrong anyway - my school had 800 student enrollment if you want to get right down to it.)
You strike me as a smart guy, intelligent, and I do think you have a general good sense of basketball (but you lack any degree of an ability to be objective/critical of Wojo) and as a result you come across ignorant here.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Do you realize what a pud you come off as with your repeated Minoqua North/Nimrod/Northwoods etc., references? (Which is wrong anyway - my school had 800 student enrollment if you want to get right down to it.)
You strike me as a smart guy, intelligent, and I do think you have a general good sense of basketball (but you lack any degree of an ability to be objective/critical of Wojo) and as a result you come across ignorant here.
You know many here would say the same about you, minus the word critical?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 11:35:43 AM
When he was asked why he only commented on threads that have to do with the games we just played when it's a game we lost Ners claimed it was because our opponent sucked and there was nothing to conclude about the game because of that (except that Joe can play against mid to low majors and he hopes he proves he can do so against high majors too).
But now he wants to go and conclude that we suck because we had 19 turnovers in the game, despite claiming there was nothing to conclude about the Charleston Southern game.
But then when it's pointed out that Charleston Southern turns their opponents over quite often, he claims that stat doesn't count because their opponents suck.
It's what he does. He zigs and then zags and then zigs and then zags to fit an agenda. And with every turn, I laugh harder and harder.
I was going to ask him if he wanted to put down a month Scoop ban on over/under 18.5 turnovers against KState since he's so concerned about the 19 turnovers we had against a far lesser opponent in Charleston Southern, but we all know how Ners and bans end up, so even if I win there's 0 chance he pays out on that bet. We'd just have another "new" poster on Scoop within a week. I will give Ners credit that, unlike Chicos, at least he won't pretend he isn't Ners. Because to do that he'd have to claim that there's another Marquette fan in this world that has laced up some basketball shoes at some point in his life, which is obviously not possible.
Whooooa. So inception like. I like it. That is true. He won't comment when we win against someone he sees as weaker. But will use their stats or whom they have/haven't played against MU.
I don't get it. Is he an MU fan? Or is he like a serial killer (actually a DePaul fan) where his first kill (first post) was an accident. But then realized he was in too deep (weird defense of half decent players being future all star forwards for the lakers) and enjoyed it and now can't get his way out so he just keeps trying to defend himself.
This should be a Netflix Special.
Quote from: Archies Bat on November 29, 2018, 11:00:17 AM
I suspect Markus is getting reps handling the ball now to be better prepared for conference play to spell JC, especially considering Greg's injury.
They run more pick n roll when Markus brings up the ball. Not so much with JC.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 11:35:43 AM
When he was asked why he only commented on threads that have to do with the games we just played when it's a game we lost Ners claimed it was because our opponent sucked and there was nothing to conclude about the game because of that (except that Joe can play against mid to low majors and he hopes he proves he can do so against high majors too).
But now he wants to go and conclude that we suck because we had 19 turnovers in the game, despite claiming there was nothing to conclude about the Charleston Southern game.
But then when it's pointed out that Charleston Southern turns their opponents over quite often, he claims that stat doesn't count because their opponents suck.
It's what he does. He zigs and then zags and then zigs and then zags to fit an agenda. And with every turn, I laugh harder and harder.
I was going to ask him if he wanted to put down a month Scoop ban on over/under 18.5 turnovers against KState since he's so concerned about the 19 turnovers we had against a far lesser opponent in Charleston Southern, but we all know how Ners and bans end up, so even if I win there's 0 chance he pays out on that bet. We'd just have another "new" poster on Scoop within a week. I will give Ners credit that, unlike Chicos, at least he won't pretend he isn't Ners. Because to do that he'd have to claim that there's another Marquette fan in this world that has laced up some basketball shoes at some point in his life, which is obviously not possible.
Sorry, you spent way too much time on this. The first two or three identities it was amusing until it got tiresome. This incarnation went straight to tiresome.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:25:12 AM
I feel better. Thanks.
Or wait they've played:
Columbia International (NON D1)
22 Florida (who committed 8 turnovers against them)
344 South Carolina State
191 Middle Tennessee State (17 turnovers forced)
Trinity Baptist (NON D1)
351 Coppin State
Love how far you are willing to go to grasp at straws to justify our team's "performance."
And the other 300+ div 1 schools didn't play any cupcakes right?
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on November 29, 2018, 01:15:32 PM
And the other 300+ div 1 schools didn't play any cupcakes right?
If you or others want to place value on Charleston Southern's ability to force turnovers, based on their ranking in D-1, then you probably should throw out their results against NON-D-1 competition.
They forced 34 against powerful Trinity Baptist and 30 against powerful Columbia International.
They forced 8 against Florida, a Top 25 team. Marquette had more turnovers (19) against Charleston Southern than 351st Coppin State (17 turnovers agains CS) and more than 191st Middle Tennessee (17 turnovers against CS)
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Do you realize what a pud you come off as with your repeated Minoqua North/Nimrod/Northwoods etc., references? (Which is wrong anyway - my school had 800 student enrollment if you want to get right down to it.)
You strike me as a smart guy, intelligent, and I do think you have a general good sense of basketball (but you lack any degree of an ability to be objective/critical of Wojo) and as a result you come across ignorant here.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 29, 2018, 11:35:43 AM
When he was asked why he only commented on threads that have to do with the games we just played when it's a game we lost Ners claimed it was because our opponent sucked and there was nothing to conclude about the game because of that (except that Joe can play against mid to low majors and he hopes he proves he can do so against high majors too).
But now he wants to go and conclude that we suck because we had 19 turnovers in the game, despite claiming there was nothing to conclude about the Charleston Southern game.
But then when it's pointed out that Charleston Southern turns their opponents over quite often, he claims that stat doesn't count because their opponents suck.
It's what he does. He zigs and then zags and then zigs and then zags to fit an agenda. And with every turn, I laugh harder and harder.
I was going to ask him if he wanted to put down a month Scoop ban on over/under 18.5 turnovers against KState since he's so concerned about the 19 turnovers we had against a far lesser opponent in Charleston Southern, but we all know how Ners and bans end up, so even if I win there's 0 chance he pays out on that bet. We'd just have another "new" poster on Scoop within a week. I will give Ners credit that, unlike Chicos, at least he won't pretend he isn't Ners. Because to do that he'd have to claim that there's another Marquette fan in this world that has laced up some basketball shoes at some point in his life, which is obviously not possible.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/63107674/just-kiss-already.jpg)
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
If you or others want to place value on Charleston Southern's ability to force turnovers, based on their ranking in D-1, then you probably should throw out their results against NON-D-1 competition.
They forced 34 against powerful Trinity Baptist and 30 against powerful Columbia International.
They forced 8 against Florida, a Top 25 team. Marquette had more turnovers (19) against Charleston Southern than 351st Coppin State (17 turnovers agains CS) and more than 191st Middle Tennessee (17 turnovers against CS)
Oh no!
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 11:46:18 AM
Do you realize what a pud you come off as with your repeated Minoqua North/Nimrod/Northwoods etc., references? (Which is wrong anyway - my school had 800 student enrollment if you want to get right down to it.)
Some facts for those that are curious:
There is no Minoqua North.
Lakeland Union High School (often referred to as Lakeland) is located in Minoqua, WI.
Lakeland HS has an enrollment of 708.
Brian Wardle's wife is from Minoqua.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 29, 2018, 02:05:27 PM
If you or others want to place value on Charleston Southern's ability to force turnovers, based on their ranking in D-1, then you probably should throw out their results against NON-D-1 competition.
They forced 34 against powerful Trinity Baptist and 30 against powerful Columbia International.
They forced 8 against Florida, a Top 25 team. Marquette had more turnovers (19) against Charleston Southern than 351st Coppin State (17 turnovers agains CS) and more than 191st Middle Tennessee (17 turnovers against CS)
So the takeaway here for those willing to be objective is that Charleston Southern's strong suit is defense and forcing turnovers. They've done a good job of it so far this year, but they've played a very weak schedule. I think it's fair to assume their numbers will decline as the quality of opponents they play improves (because it can't get much worse).
It's not surprising that they were able to force a lot of turnovers against us, but we should still expect to take better care of the ball against a lower tier opponent. If CS is averaging 20 forced TOs per game, we should certainly expect Marquette to be below that average, likely well below.
It's fair to say that we should be able to do a better job of taking care of the ball than anyone else on their schedule to date with the exception of Florida. We came out right around their average, which is not the end of the world but does cause some concern knowing that we'll be facing better competition in 3 of our next 5 games.
See how that works?
Quote from: skianth16 on November 29, 2018, 03:13:41 PM
So the takeaway here for those willing to be objective is that Charleston Southern's strong suit is defense and forcing turnovers. They've done a good job of it so far this year, but they've played a very weak schedule. I think it's fair to assume their numbers will decline as the quality of opponents they play improves (because it can't get much worse).
It's not surprising that they were able to force a lot of turnovers against us, but we should still expect to take better care of the ball against a lower tier opponent. If CS is averaging 20 forced TOs per game, we should certainly expect Marquette to be below that average, likely well below.
It's fair to say that we should be able to do a better job of taking care of the ball than anyone else on their schedule to date with the exception of Florida. We came out right around their average, which is not the end of the world but does cause some concern knowing that we'll be facing better competition in 3 of our next 5 games.
See how that works?
Sure...if you didn't say that you take absolutely nothing away from the game in the first place.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 29, 2018, 02:43:09 PM
Some facts for those that are curious:
There is no Minoqua North.
Lakeland Union High School (often referred to as Lakeland) is located in Minoqua, WI.
Lakeland HS has an enrollment of 708.
Brian Wardle's wife is from Minoqua.
*Mino
cqua*
And that's T-bird country, baby.
Was a shame when that railroad trestle on Hwy 51 came down.
Have any of you guys been to Beefarama? To answer first: yes.
By the way, great thread title.
I'm still convinced they aren't running many of their "good" sets against the cupcakes. Could be wrong though...
Quote from: barfolomew on November 29, 2018, 05:20:38 PM
*Minocqua*
And that's T-bird country, baby.
Was a shame when that railroad trestle on Hwy 51 came down.
Sorry for the spelling error. Send Katie Voigt my apologies.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on November 29, 2018, 06:44:28 PM
Sorry for the spelling error. Send Katie Voigt my apologies.
She says no problem. ;)
Nobody spells it correctly. I blame the Min-aqua-bats.