MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Floorslapper on November 17, 2018, 02:05:54 PM
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
Imagine what our top 10 offense in the country the last couple years could’ve done if our coach didn’t go all knee jerk substitution on these kids and let them actually get in a flow. ::)
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Same complaint you had about Buzz. If it was one of the guys you liked. And I distinctly remember you complaining about the lack of subbing if you wanted somebody back in the game.
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Same complaint you had about Buzz. If it was one of the guys you liked.
Yep. There were times I didn't like Buzz's manic subbing - notably his last season at MU.
Imagine what our top 10 offense in the country the last couple years could’ve done if our coach didn’t go all knee jerk substitution on these kids and let them actually get in a flow. ::)
It was an area I felt Wojo improved in and have said as much, yet he once again defaulted to his primary M.O. thus far this year = "Mistake" = Bench.
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!
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I'll acknowledge you may be right if you can acknowledge that the reason he "let them play" was because the guys on the court played well, therefore he left them in.
Chicken and egg
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
Do you concede it may also be a possibility that these guys were playing well and playing the way wojo wanted them to play thus he saw no need for a sub?
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Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!
It's been an ongoing problem for him since he arrived...except last year when it was a no-brainer.
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Unfortunately hes too stupid to realize this should be our starting n base lineup!!!
I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously. That's an argument a 4 year old makes.
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I'll acknowledge you may be right if you can acknowledge that the reason he "let them play" was because the guys on the court played well, therefore he left them in.
Chicken and egg
Do you concede it may also be a possibility that these guys were playing well and playing the way wojo wanted them to play thus he saw no need for a sub?
You cannot let how a group opens a game/starts, dictate what you do.
You define your best lineup, how the pieces best fit together, and if it starts slow/struggles - you are convicted enough in your conviction to play it out and expect a PROGRESSION to the mean.
Consistency matters. It is incredibly hard to be efficient and effective in the game of basketball when playing in the traditional sense of being on a team, with a coach, who dictates playing time and never knowing how short the leash is going to be, and that there is zero consistency to your role.
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
This is the lineup that needs to be on the floor the most.
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This is the lineup that needs to be on the floor the most.
Hopefully Wojo takes the obvious that was laid out in front of him and consistently goes with this lineup going forward. Now, considering after our great win at Creighton when he was forced to go with just Andrew (after Markus got hurt), and went to a zone, and we overcame a 15 point deficit and won on the road - he reverted back to the two small and M2M lineup - who knows?
Markus at PG is an experiment we've seen enough of. He's not effective at all, and much better off the ball. No idea how/why Wojo struggles with this..just as he did playing Cheatham at PG.
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I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously. That's an argument a 4 year old makes.
The description of him seems appropriate. Maybe 6 year old in a stretch.
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Hopefully Wojo takes the obvious that was laid out in front of him and consistently goes with this lineup going forward. Now, considering after our great win at Creighton when he was forced to go with just Andrew (after Markus got hurt), and went to a zone, and we overcame a 15 point deficit and won on the road - he reverted back to the two small and M2M lineup - who knows?
Markus at PG is an experiment we've seen enough of. He's not effective at all, and much better off the ball. No idea how/why Wojo struggles with this..just as he did playing Cheatham at PG.
We also beat Creighton with our 2 small lineup the other time we played them, so...
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Anyone realize that Wojo finally let guys get in a flow, and not be yanked in and out of a game?
NO SUBS from 12:40 mark on when we trailed 43-37. Put Chartouney in for Anim at that moment.
Joe
Markus
Joey
Sam
Theo
When Wojo lets players get in the flow of the game good things have historically resulted. Part of building a players confidence is showing confidence in them . The yanking of guys like Cain who do not force bad shots etc is not helpful. Creates unnecessary tension.
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You cannot let how a group opens a game/starts, dictate what you do.
You define your best lineup, how the pieces best fit together, and if it starts slow/struggles - you are convicted enough in your conviction to play it out and expect a PROGRESSION to the mean. thanks
Consistency matters. It is incredibly hard to be efficient and effective in the game of basketball when playing in the traditional sense of being on a team, with a coach, who dictates playing time and never knowing how short the leash is going to be, and that there is zero consistency to your role.
So you refuse to concede another viewpoint is a possibility. Got it.
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I can at least understand the arguments in this thread.
I am pulling my hair out every time you mention "pulling" Cain. It was his first start. Maybe he planned on getting JC in for him early regardless. Maybe Cain knew this.
Also just realized we have two JCs
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The first 30 games pretty much everyone not named Sam Hauser played tense.
I'm glad he finally let Chartouny have some extended run - this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread - you can't see what a guy can do if you only leave him in for 4 minute spurts.
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The first 30 games pretty much everyone not named Sam Hauser played tense.
I'm glad he finally let Chartouny have some extended run - this is exactly what I was talking about in the other thread - you can't see what a guy can do if you only leave him in for 4 minute spurts.
Well if guys can't get a flow going in a 4 minute spurt then they never are going to get a flow going. There's a TV timeout literally every 4 minutes. So I guess Wojo is doing it right then.
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So you refuse to concede another viewpoint is a possibility. Got it.
I can concede this: If one of your subs off the bench comes in the game for a starter and has a hot hand and is playing well - you ride him longer than usual/extend starters rest.
But. On the balance. Starters roles and substitutions should be consistent unless dictated by foul trouble.
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So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?
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So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?
Right. And match ups count. Sometimes one line up isn’t going to work as well as another and it takes time to figure it out.
The idea that some needs to play more than four minutes to get “flow” isn’t necessarily accurate.
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So how long do you have to play a player who is having an off night until it's safe to bring in a sub?
Duh, as long as Ners thinks is correct, but not a second longer...because he dunked once in the rec center.
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Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.
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I hope you understand, if your theory is that Wojo is "stupid," that no one is really going to take you seriously. That's an argument a 4 year old makes.
A 4 year old can see that should be our starting lineup. A 4 year says “Daddy number 0 sucks at PG”
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I'd much prefer a coach who's flexible with his lineups and willing to adjust playing time based upon matchups, who's performing well over a given stretch, etc.
I think we can debate how well Wojo does that, but to insist that he should stick with a set lineup and minute allocation just because seems pretty dumb. One of the advantages of recruiting depth is the flexibility it provides, as well as the ability to ride a hot hand. To not take advantage of that would be bad coaching.
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This all seems familiar, somehow...… Kneejerk reactions to substituting (Ners forte)
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
Congrats on your All Northwoods Conference selection 30 years ago bud. We are not worthy. You are the only poster who’s ever seen a basketball court.
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
Just a fyi, no sport has more defined roles than volleyball. So if anything, you’re the one who doesn’t understand what a defined role is.
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
What a hilariously pathetic comment. Or pathetically hilarous. Classic Ners.
Outstanding.
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Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.
First two, i agree. He was one our better players against IU n kept getting yanked.
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Or maybe coincidentally......
Markus was not playing point guard during that time either.....
His passing and decision-making the last two games has been incredibly bad.....(aka while attempting to play point)
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Just a fyi, no sport has more defined roles than volleyball. So if anything, you’re the one who doesn’t understand what a defined role is.
Thanks for making my point: You won't find me on a volleyball message board making idiotic points thinking I know much about the game of volleyball because I played it in P.E., and intramurals.
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Furman tied with Nova with under 10 minutes to go. It’s clear Jay Wright hasn’t played enough basketball in his life to know you need to let your starters go at least 40 minutes before you sub. Let them get a flow!
(I love Ners’s argument. Those who don’t agree that our coach has it all wrong just haven’t played enough basketball so they don’t understand. Our coach was only a McDonald’s AA and played at Duke. But that pales in comparison to Ners’s Wausau career and babysitting kids at Buzz’s summer camps.)
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What a hilariously pathetic comment. Or pathetically hilarous. Classic Ners.
Outstanding.
The irony. Your hot takes here are hilariously basketball ignorant and pathetic. Classic Blue Man Group.
Looking a hell of a lot more likely that I was 100% right in identifying that Wojo didn't have "it" just 8 games into his career at MU.
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Thanks for making my point: You won't find me on a volleyball message board making idiotic points thinking I know much about the game of volleyball because I played it in P.E., and intramurals.
Yeah you’ll just sit here claiming anyone who doesn’t agree with you Just was a band boy and doesn’t understand the game. Because you’ve played way more basketball at a much higher level than Wojo. Got it bud.
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Furman tied with Nova with under 10 minutes to go. It’s clear Jay Wright hasn’t played enough basketball in his life to know you need to let your starters go at least 40 minutes before you sub. Let them get a flow!
(I love Ners’s argument. Those who don’t agree that our coach has it all wrong just haven’t played enough basketball so they don’t understand. Our coach was only a McDonald’s AA and played at Duke. But that pales in comparison to Ners’s Wausau career and babysitting kids at Buzz’s summer camps.)
Our coach's results speak for themselves, despite his playing at Duke and sitting next to Coach K. I get that you are all in on Wojo and been President of the Wojo Fanboy club - but it's certainly not looking good for you bud.
And for the love of God, would you and the other Wojo fanboys please stop using silly analogies to Jay Wright and Villanova. Jay is 8-1 against Wojo and has won 2 National Titles, made 3 Final Fours, and made the NCAA 13 out of the last 14 years.
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
This the end to any intelligent discussion.
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Chartouny was great tonight, but the idea that he should've been playing 25-30 minutes the first three games is ludicrous. I'm as big a fan of his game as anyone, but he had bad stretches and deservingly came off. Tonight he played well, under control, and wasn't overextending like we saw earlier. It looked like he learned from his past stints on the bench.
The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him. He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard. And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too. We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.
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I can at least understand the arguments in this thread.
I am pulling my hair out every time you mention "pulling" Cain. It was his first start. Maybe he planned on getting JC in for him early regardless. Maybe Cain knew this.
Also just realized we have two JCs
......and two MHs
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Watch a Bucks game and watch how Bud coaches. There’s a reason the Bucks are WAY better this year and it’s not because they acquired Brooke Lopez and Ersan.
It’s scheme. Defined roles. Consistent starting lineup. Consistent rotation.
All you guys who played in the band, volleyball, or sat in the stands while watching your high school basketball team play - probably an exercise in futility for you guys to comprehend.
Actually the Bucks are doing more to match up and go with the hot hand in their late game substitutions then I recall them doing under Kidd.
At the beginning of the game, sure. They have a relatively set rotation just like any NBA team does. But that's because NBA games are mostly about jockeying for the second half than anything. But at the end of the game? He doesn't have a set rotation - and I've seen about eight or so of their games this year.
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The irony. Your hot takes here are hilariously basketball ignorant and pathetic. Classic Blue Man Group.
Looking a hell of a lot more likely that I was 100% right in identifying that Wojo didn't have "it" just 8 games into his career at MU.
Would love some examples of these "hot takes". I guess telling people not to freak out because of getting destroyed at IU is over the top.
You literally believing you know basketball better than others because you played in high school is just so sad. You're a joke and you don't even realize it. How many different screen names have you had to sign up for on this board?
That's not a hot take - it's reality.
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Our coach's results speak for themselves, despite his playing at Duke and sitting next to Coach K. I get that you are all in on Wojo and been President of the Wojo Fanboy club - but it's certainly not looking good for you bud.
And for the love of God, would you and the other Wojo fanboys please stop using silly analogies to Jay Wright and Villanova. Jay is 8-1 against Wojo and has won 2 National Titles, made 3 Final Fours, and made the NCAA 13 out of the last 14 years.
So your argument holds true...except when it doesn't fit your narrative. I gotcha. Nobody here can possibly know more about basketball than you because you beat the Watersmeet Nimrods in hoops 30 years ago! But Wojo doesn't know more than you despite playing at Duke and professionally overseas. The logic doesn't add up big guy, even with you dunking at the Rec Center 25 years ago!
Thank God you are finally seeing the ridiculousness of your position. Just takes talking about Jay Wright and Villinova to get you there.
By the way, high school tryouts should be this week I would think. We should have 45 kids (freshman, JV, varsity) at every single high school in American that know more about basketball than Buzz Williams (never played high school basketball, can't possibly know more about basketball than anyone who did!).
#nerslogic
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The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him. He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard. And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too. We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.
I agree. I think the whole team was trying too hard for the first 30 minutes of the game. They all knew they really laid an egg at IU and were over compensating today. Let's hope they can compose themselves for Kansas and compete.
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I agree. I think the whole team was trying too hard for the first 30 minutes of the game. They all knew they really laid an egg at IU and were over compensating today. Let's hope they can compose themselves for Kansas and compete.
This ^ & I think they started out playing afraid to make a mistake...playing stiff. There couldn’t have been a better opponent for us following our embarrassment at IU. Going forward, depending on how the rest of the season goes, we may look back on these last 2 games as either the spark/wake up call we needed or just another rocket just being rocket.
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Would love some examples of these "hot takes". I guess telling people not to freak out because of getting destroyed at IU is over the top.
You literally believing you know basketball better than others because you played in high school is just so sad. You're a joke and you don't even realize it. How many different screen names have you had to sign up for on this board?
That's not a hot take - it's reality.
I take it back. What happened to you Blue Man? Seems like you used to get it? How bout this Hot Take? I didn't bother to dive deeper than your first page upon joining.
Enjoyed listening to Juan's postgame, especially the answer to the question on leadership. I'll be rooting for him this year as it sounds like he's persevered through some tough times.
I also found his comments on JJJ interesting in terms of how not knowing if you are going to get consistent minutes can have a huge impact on your performance (obviously) as well as Wojo encouraging the team to shoot the ball when open without having to worry about coming out of the game. I don't want this to devolve into a conversation about Buzz but it's hard not to see the connection.
Overall I was satisfied with how the team looked. As most have mentioned, there will be some rough patches this year, especially with our lack of size until Luke is eligible. All I want to see is continued progress of the guys that can be huge factors over the next couple of years (JJJ, Burton, Duane, Cohen, STJ, Luke). I don't expect a tourney appearance but if we can improve enough throughout the season to at least be a threat to win the conference tourney in March that would qualify as a successful season, IMO.
So - A consistent role, not getting yanked for missing a shot, investing into JJJ, Burton, Duane, Luke, Steve Taylor - looked like good ideas to you for Wojo Year 1?
I totally agreed. Unfortunately, Wojo did none of the above, and ultimately still struggles with defining a consistent role, and yanking guys out of the game for missing a couple of good shot attemtps - as we saw with Cain today 2:30 into the game.
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So your argument holds true...except when it doesn't fit your narrative. I gotcha. Nobody here can possibly know more about basketball than you because you beat the Watersmeet Nimrods in hoops 30 years ago! But Wojo doesn't know more than you despite playing at Duke and professionally overseas. The logic doesn't add up big guy, even with you dunking at the Rec Center 25 years ago!
Thank God you are finally seeing the ridiculousness of your position. Just takes talking about Jay Wright and Villinova to get you there.
By the way, high school tryouts should be this week I would think. We should have 45 kids (freshman, JV, varsity) at every single high school in American that know more about basketball than Buzz Williams (never played high school basketball, can't possibly know more about basketball than anyone who did!).
#nerslogic
#wadesunhinged. What does this post even mean? Buzz played in High School. Jay Wright played in college. Both guys are much better coaches than Wojo.
I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not, but when those of you who did not act as if your takes are the Gospel (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary), it is ludicrous.
I read your posts popping off about Mike McCarthy - you certainly seem to think you know more about the game of football than McCarthy. Sadly, McCarthy and Wojo are about the equivalent: mediocre at best.
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I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not,
Then why do you keep bringing it up???
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#wadesunhinged. What does this post even mean? Buzz played in High School. Jay Wright played in college. Both guys are much better coaches than Wojo.
I could really give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not, but when those of you who did not act as if your takes are the Gospel (despite mountains of evidence to the contrary), it is ludicrous.
I read your posts popping off about Mike McCarthy - you certainly seem to think you know more about the game of football than McCarthy. Sadly, McCarthy and Wojo are about the equivalent: mediocre at best.
Big Mac knows a million times more about football than I do.
I have never once referenced my athletic accomplishments as reasons that my opinions on a sport are more valid than anyone else’s. That’s your thing bud. Now go win another dunk contest!
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Then why do you keep bringing it up???
I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue.
When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play. (I lived that life was a junior in HS. We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)
So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.
Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..
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So it does sound like you actually do "give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not."
(Hint: It really doesn't matter if you played HS basketball or not. It gives you too many biases considering the HS game is very much different than the college game.)
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I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue.
When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play. (I lived that life was a junior in HS. We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)
So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.
Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..
One who slaps floors,
Instead of slapping the floor, please slap that good looking fellow in the mirror.
Perhaps the violent trauma to his visage will awaken him enough to realize that people can understand flow and consistency without having played at your (incredibly high) high school level.
Thanks
Moomoo
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So it does sound like you actually do "give a sh$t if posters here played basketball or not."
(Hint: It really doesn't matter if you played HS basketball or not.)
No. Just the handful of PROLIFIC posters here who act as if Wojo is above reproach. The rich irony of course, is that they are using Wojo's playing days at Duke as justification for him knowing what he is doing.
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One who slaps floors,
Instead of slapping the floor, please slap that good looking fellow in the mirror.
Perhaps the violent trauma to his visage will awaken him enough to realize that people can understand flow and consistency without having played at your (incredibly high) high school level.
Thanks
Moomoo
Totally agree. Most reasonable and logical people would understand this. Sadly we have a handful of posters here who really struggle with the concept.
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No. Just the handful of PROLIFIC posters here who act as if Wojo is above reproach. The rich irony of course, is that they are using Wojo's playing days at Duke as justification for him knowing what he is doing.
Nobody believes that Wojo is above reproach.
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In before the lock, and Ners getting another timeout.
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Wojo isn't above reproach.
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The key to Joseph today was that he relaxed and let the game come to him. He was awful his first couple outings because he was clearly trying too hard. And when Markus slid to the #2 he relaxed too. We're so much better when those guys are in their natural positions and letting it flow.
Plus Tax.
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In before the lock, and Ners getting another timeout.
Pretty sure I've not broken any Scoop rules here dude. Sorry you take offense to my posts, and me being a critic of Wojo.
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I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue.
When you haven't actually played basketball at just the high school level, it is impossible to understand what it is like as a player to get yanked in and out of a game, yanked for mistake, not having a consistent role, not knowing from one game to the next how much/little you'll play. (I lived that life was a junior in HS. We got a new coach my senior year, and it was night and day difference...and yes..All Conference - albeit at a Division 2 school that lost to eventual State Champion in Sectional Semi-Final)
So, when guys like Wade want to belittle the point of getting into a flow, they don't speak from experience.
Hell, I just grabbed the post for Blue Man group that quoted Juan Anderson as saying as much..
You do realize you can play more than one sport in high school right?
Also, you realize that at a minimum there will be a stoppage every 4 minutes in college basketball, right? So crying that a player can't get into the flow of a game when he's being yanked every 4 minutes is hilarious, because whether he's getting yanked every 4 minutes or he's going to the bench for a 2 minute TV timeout every 4 minutes, his "flow" is being "ruined" every 4 minutes. So according to your logic, it's impossible for any college basketball player to ever get into a flow.
I'm not using Wojo's experience to say he's above reproach. I'm using your exact logic for claiming that you are above reproach to show that if you are above reproach, then Wojo is above being above reproach. It's hilarious that you realize how ridiculous these claims are...because that's what it's meant to be! Ridiculous! You can see they're ridiculous claims...yet you fail to realize they're the exact claims you're making about yourself lol.
Crying about Wojo not knowing how to ride the hot hand is hysterical. He's just had one of the best offenses in the country the last 2 years. With 0 surefire pros, no less.
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Nobody believes that Wojo is above reproach.
Wojo isn't above reproach.
You two have improved your objectivity over the past year. Yet there definitely are many cases where threads such as the "What If" thread get created and some try to associate Wojo with Jay Wright. Wades still struggles.
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You two have improved your objectivity over the past year. Yet there definitely are many cases where threads such as the "What If" thread get created and some try to associate Wojo with Jay Wright. Wades still struggles.
Or Wades is just pointing to the ridiculousness of the argument, which you continue to struggle to realize. Glad you realize it is a ridiculous argument, though. Next step is to realize the ridiculous arguments are the exact ones you are making. Maybe the next time you get banned and returned with a new nickname you'll catch on. I'm not holding my breath though.
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Yes/no, the offense has been among the best the last few years?
Yes/no, MU has held three cupcakes to worse than 32% shooting and an average of 55 puts a game?
Yep, Rowsey was important to the offense. He also was a primary factor in the abysmal defense.
A coach gets criticized for anything that doesn't work. Rotations are like bullpens. One batter or minute to long, criticism. Pull them too soon and it doesn't work, meltdown. Let somebody play though two early fouls and they pick up their third, Hiroshima. Leave them on the bench until the second half and the other team builds a lead, Nagasaki.
The team had no flow for 28 minutes. A group finally found their groove and Wojo rode them. Something to be celebrated. He kept shuffling players in and out when there wasn't a flow. THAT IS WHAT A COACH IS SUPPOSED TO DO. If the team isn't playing well, keep shuffling until a line up clicks.
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You do realize you can play more than one sport in high school right?
Also, you realize that at a minimum there will be a stoppage every 4 minutes in college basketball, right? So crying that a player can't get into the flow of a game when he's being yanked every 4 minutes is hilarious, because whether he's getting yanked every 4 minutes or he's going to the bench for a 2 minute TV timeout every 4 minutes, his "flow" is being "ruined" every 4 minutes. So according to your logic, it's impossible for any college basketball player to ever get into a flow.
I'm not using Wojo's experience to say he's above reproach. I'm using your exact logic for claiming that you are above reproach to show that if you are above reproach, then Wojo is above being above reproach. It's hilarious that you realize how ridiculous these claims are...because that's what it's meant to be! Ridiculous! You can see they're ridiculous claims...yet you fail to realize they're the exact claims you're making about yourself lol.
Crying about Wojo not knowing how to ride the hot hand is hysterical. He's just had one of the best offenses in the country the last 2 years. With 0 surefire pros, no less.
What high school's basketball team were you on Wades?
Your 4-minute time TV timeout argument is just silly. You don't lose your flow when you've been playing 4-6 minutes (depending on when dead ball occurs after 4) consistently, sit down for a 2 minute timeout, and go back into the game lathered up and loose for another 4-6 minutes. That aside, Wojo's hook is much quicker than 4 minutes. 2 minutes can be standard fare.
I don't cry about "Wojo riding the hot hand." I "cry" about him yanking guys in and out of the lineup, and players rarely getting a consistent role.
As for all of the "reproach" stuff, we can leave it as is:
You think Wojo is a good coach/has the goods. I don't.
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Yes/no, the offense has been among the best the last few years?
Yes/no, MU has held three cupcakes to worse than 32% shooting and an average of 55 puts a game?
Yep, Rowsey was important to the offense. He also was a primary factor in the abysmal defense.
A coach gets criticized for anything that doesn't work. Rotations are like bullpens. One batter or minute to long, criticism. Pull them too soon and it doesn't work, meltdown. Let somebody play though two early fouls and they pick up their third, Hiroshima. Leave them on the bench until the second half and the other team builds a lead, Nagasaki.
The team had no flow for 28 minutes. A group finally found their groove and Wojo rode them. Something to be celebrated. He kept shuffling players in and out when there wasn't a flow. THAT IS WHAT A COACH IS SUPPOSED TO DO. If the team isn't playing well, keep shuffling until a line up clicks.
Yes - Prolific offensively in 2017 and 2018 (yet tragically only NIT worthy)
Yes - We've been prolific defensively this year against the one Division III team we played and the two Sub 300 cupcakes.
Yes, Rowsey was a poor defender. It didn't help choosing to play Markus and Andrew together. As we saw against IU, we are still a sieve defensively against high major athletic talent. Andrew wasn't the exclusive problem.
You saw it going into the IU game - our athleticism is a concern. Why in Year 5 of the regime, are all of us expecting to get shellacked on a neutral floor to Kansas?
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What high school's basketball team were you on Wades?
Your 4-minute time TV timeout argument is just silly. You don't lose your flow when you've been playing 4-6 minutes (depending on when dead ball occurs after 4) consistently, sit down for a 2 minute timeout, and go back into the game lathered up and loose for another 4-6 minutes. That aside, Wojo's hook is much quicker than 4 minutes. 2 minutes can be standard fare.
I don't cry about "Wojo riding the hot hand." I "cry" about him yanking guys in and out of the lineup, and players rarely getting a consistent role.
As for all of the "reproach" stuff, we can leave it as is:
You think Wojo is a good coach/has the goods. I don't.
You asked me this with one of your old screen names from before one of your numerous bannings, and I believe you PM'd me about it. You can go back and find my answer...wait, nevermind, you were banned and that username is no longer with us. RIP.
The answer remains the same, I'm secure enough with myself to not need to recite my athletic accomplishments to a bunch of people I don't know on a Marquette basketball forum, people who don't, and shouldn't, care. You aren't, which is cool too. You think what you did on a high school basketball court 20+ years ago against schools with 200 total kids at the school still means something. I don't. To each their own.
I could be someone who's never shot a basketball in his life and it doesn't make my opinion any less relevant on MUScoop than it makes yours.
But go win another dunk contest brother, someone so athletically superior to me shouldn't be wasting his time with a peon like me!
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Many teams get beat up by really good teams. Kentucky lost by how much to Duke? How big was MSU down to Kansas before a late run that made the game seem closer than it was? My expectation for Kansas game is based more on how good I think Kansas is versus anything 'wrong' with Marquette.
Watching games that don't involve MU, I find myself noticing that for many highly regarded coaches and teams, after the first few minutes, there is a substitution at nearly every dead ball play stoppage. *Unless it is one of those games where there is no flow to excessive play stoppages.*
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By the way, Jamal didn't leave the court from 2:45 left in the first half through 13:38 left in the second half. What are we even crying about here? Asking as a guy with no experience in getting "lathered up" on a basketball court, how long does it take to get "lathered up," Mr. Ners, if Jamal is being unfairly subbed out by Wojo?
We had 3 guys play 35+ minutes and we're crying about Wojo not giving kids enough consecutive minutes to get "lathered up and loose."
Sheesh.
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You asked me this with one of your old screen names from before one of your numerous bannings, and I believe you PM'd me about it. You can go back and find my answer...wait, nevermind, you were banned and that username is no longer with us. RIP.
The answer remains the same, I'm secure enough with myself to not need to recite my athletic accomplishments to a bunch of people I don't know on a Marquette basketball forum, people who don't, and shouldn't, care. You aren't, which is cool too. You think what you did on a high school basketball court 20+ years ago against schools with 200 total kids at the school still means something. I don't. To each their own.
I could be someone who's never shot a basketball in his life and it doesn't make my opinion any less relevant on MUScoop than it makes yours.
But go win another dunk contest brother, someone so athletically superior to me shouldn't be wasting his time with a peon like me!
To set the record straight:
1) That's odd. I never got an answer or PM from you. You wouldn't lie about something so silly, would you?
2) Regarding my "accomplishments." A few years back posters asked what they were. I responded. You (and some others) chose to belittle them. That's your prerogative. As for reciting my "accomplishments," here? I don't. You bring them up (albeit it inaccurately - my school had 750.) We played SPASH annually - nobody quite as good as the Hauser's there back in the 90s - but I get your rationale for the diss. (Teams from upstate could never be any good, right?)
P.S. - The guy who says he's secure enough with himself? He rarely is.
PSS - If I end up being "wrong' about Wojo, I'll admit it, and you and the other members of the dwindling Wojo Fanboy Club will have the last laugh.
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To set the record straight:
1) That's odd. I never got an answer or PM from you. You wouldn't lie about something so silly, would you?
2) Regarding my "accomplishments." A few years back posters asked what they were. I responded. You (and some others) chose to belittle them. That's your prerogative. As for reciting my "accomplishments," here? I don't. You bring them up (albeit it inaccurately - my school had 750.) We played SPASH annually - nobody quite as good as the Hauser's there back in the 90s - but I get your rationale for the diss. (Teams from upstate could never be any good, right?)
P.S. - The guy who says he's secure enough with himself? He rarely is.
PSS - If I end up being "wrong' about Wojo, I'll admit it, and you and the other members of the dwindling Wojo Fanboy Club will have the last laugh.
I definitely sent you one and you definitely responded. But fair enough. We’ll go with you being the only poster ever to have played basketball and the rest of us being unqualified to comment here.
Go Nimrods!
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I explained that in the post you quoted. (Because when volleyball players like Wade act as if their takes are 100% Gospel and spot on), there is a slight credibility issue.
Let me see if I have this straight. You have a keen insight because you played high school ball? Didn't Wojo play high school ball? And college ball? And pro ball overseas? And coach college and our international teams? Doesn't he see our guys play every single day? Would he not have more insight, than say you would despite playing high school ball?
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I definitely sent you one and you definitely responded. But fair enough. We’ll go with you being the only poster ever to have played basketball and the rest of us being unqualified to comment here.
Go Nimrods!
Yea. Just logged back into the Ners Account. No PM from you on stating where you played high school basketball. (Comes as no shock because I know its total B.S.) You sent me one voicing your disdain for Todd Mayo. Want me to copy and paste the content of that one here, just to back up what I'm saying?
And to clarify, there are plenty of non-basketball playing posters here that have good insight and good takes on matters. But, generally you haven't been one of them, since you went all in on Wojo and #trusttheprocess.
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Let me see if I have this straight. You have a keen insight because you played high school ball? Didn't Wojo play high school ball? And college ball? And pro ball overseas? And coach college and our international teams? Doesn't he see our guys play every single day? Would he not have more insight, than say you would despite playing high school ball?
He sure as hell should, yes! But this is the coach that:
Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.
Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.
Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT
Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.
We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.
And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?
**Think the key word you use is "insight." Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc. BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.
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He sure as hell should, yes! But this is the coach that:
Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.
Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.
Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT
Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.
We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.
And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?
**Think the key word you use is "insight." Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc. BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.
I don't get the reference that Duane was a solid PG option. He was as prone to chucking bad shots as Markus
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In before the lock, and Ners getting another timeout.
This. There's lots of good stuff to discuss. Somehow we can't do it as a group.
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He sure as hell should, yes! But this is the coach that:
Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.
Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.
Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT
Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.
We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.
And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?
**Think the key word you use is "insight." Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc. BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.
It had all been going so well. Ah well. Ners gonna Ners.
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There are ebbs and flows to every basketball game, every basketball season. Watch enough non-Marquette basketball, and you start to recognize patterns, game styles, sense when the momentum is about to change, see teams grow and evolve and learn. What always frustrates me is that so many think that the ebbs, flows, momentum, rhythms that happen elsewhere can't or don't or shouldn't happen at Marquette. Watch how other coaches substitute. Watch how other teams defend the pick and roll. Watch weakside defensive rotations. Watch off the ball screening and motion. Yes, some teams have Zion Williamson. Or Bol Bol. Watch how their minutes are managed and how their coaches set it up to get them the ball in their preferred places.
Under Buzz, the alpha was always the guy who would get the ball at the top of the key with 7-8 on the shot clock. The ball would move, the players would move, but if a shot was not found in the first 20 seconds, the ball would find the alpha (Blue, Butler, Crowder, Lazar, Jerel, Wes, DJ) at the top of the key with 7-8 seconds to go and they would make a play.
Last year, Theo was having his break out game. He had played extremely well for about 12 consecutive minutes and Wojo took him out and the MU cognoscenti lost their minds about it. Ignoring the fact that Theo had not played that many consecutive minutes all year and came out because he was gassed freshman big. And yet, if you watched other freshman bigs, you saw that they never played too many consecutive minutes on other teams. Coaches manage minutes.
Which brings us back to the original argument. There was a new starting line up yesterday. Cain started for the first time in his college career, a reward, perhaps for the energy he had brought off the bench and the desire for a fast start. It clearly didn't work. The team started flat and Cain missed two 3 pt shots early. Wojo started subbing looking for a better combination and was criticized for it because the team played poorly. My question is this. If Wojo HADN'T subbed, had left the same out of sync line up in for the first 6-7 minutes, would the same people be complaining the opposite point? Floorslapper acknowledges he doesn't think Wojo is a good coach. Fine. But IMO, that means that whatever strategy Wojo employs, FSNers is going to criticize it.
I think Wojo is a 'paint-by-numbers' coach and not an alchemist or magician. He continues to recruit gifted shooters who aren't quick enough on the defensive end, leaving his teams unbalanced. And no one who breaks down a defense, gets into the paint and creates openings for the gifted shooters. I haven't given up hope that he can get better, and I refuse to tear him down for making the exact same moves many, many successful coaches make.
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Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.
Stop this. Traci played all 24 mpg at the point. He was the starting point. Duane was the backup. Cheatham was the 3rd PG and by the end of the season wasn't playing there at all. You keep repeating this lie. Stop.
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There are ebbs and flows to every basketball game, every basketball season. Watch enough non-Marquette basketball, and you start to recognize patterns, game styles, sense when the momentum is about to change, see teams grow and evolve and learn. What always frustrates me is that so many think that the ebbs, flows, momentum, rhythms that happen elsewhere can't or don't or shouldn't happen at Marquette. Watch how other coaches substitute. Watch how other teams defend the pick and roll. Watch weakside defensive rotations. Watch off the ball screening and motion. Yes, some teams have Zion Williamson. Or Bol Bol. Watch how their minutes are managed and how their coaches set it up to get them the ball in their preferred places.
Under Buzz, the alpha was always the guy who would get the ball at the top of the key with 7-8 on the shot clock. The ball would move, the players would move, but if a shot was not found in the first 20 seconds, the ball would find the alpha (Blue, Butler, Crowder, Lazar, Jerel, Wes, DJ) at the top of the key with 7-8 seconds to go and they would make a play.
Last year, Theo was having his break out game. He had played extremely well for about 12 consecutive minutes and Wojo took him out and the MU cognoscenti lost their minds about it. Ignoring the fact that Theo had not played that many consecutive minutes all year and came out because he was gassed freshman big. And yet, if you watched other freshman bigs, you saw that they never played too many consecutive minutes on other teams. Coaches manage minutes.
Which brings us back to the original argument. There was a new starting line up yesterday. Cain started for the first time in his college career, a reward, perhaps for the energy he had brought off the bench and the desire for a fast start. It clearly didn't work. The team started flat and Cain missed two 3 pt shots early. Wojo started subbing looking for a better combination and was criticized for it because the team played poorly. My question is this. If Wojo HADN'T subbed, had left the same out of sync line up in for the first 6-7 minutes, would the same people be complaining the opposite point? Floorslapper acknowledges he doesn't think Wojo is a good coach. Fine. But IMO, that means that whatever strategy Wojo employs, FSNers is going to criticize it.
I think Wojo is a 'paint-by-numbers' coach and not an alchemist or magician. He continues to recruit gifted shooters who aren't quick enough on the defensive end, leaving his teams unbalanced. And no one who breaks down a defense, gets into the paint and creates openings for the gifted shooters. I haven't given up hope that he can get better, and I refuse to tear him down for making the exact same moves many, many successful coaches make.
We need more pogo stick types.
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Stop this. Traci played all 24 mpg at the point. He was the starting point. Duane was the backup. Cheatham was the 3rd PG and by the end of the season wasn't playing there at all. You keep repeating this lie. Stop.
No sh$t Traci played all his minutes as a Point Guard. He wasn't the starter at the season onset. His role (is he a starter or coming off the bench) and minutes were all over the place. Lots of volatility in his minutes. He played 58% of available minutes. Cheatham played 72.7% - which was more than junior JJJ at 56% (yet another idiotic underutilization.)
A fine example was Game 3 of that season against Iowa. Cheatham with 7 turnovers while playing 24 minutes. Traci played 13.
Traci played 14, 14, and 13 in the first 3 games of that season - then miraculously when placed into a major role at Preseason NIT (the next 3 games), team accomplished its best performance of that season - he played 32, 42 and 37 in those three games.
You guys act as if Wojo has been bulletproof on his playing time allocations, rotations, and decision-making. It really makes you look silly
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It had all been going so well. Ah well. Ners gonna Ners.
There's actually a better board for you guys - you know the echo chamber Dodds runs - where only blue and gold kool aid is allowed. His board really is in much better alignment with your point of view along with TAMU, Wades, Tower and Brew.(whereby the approximate approval rating of Wojo based on posting history is 90+%).
You do realize this most recent offering of yours makes your signature quite ironic. Talk about being a snowflake?
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No sh$t Traci played all his minutes as a Point Guard. He wasn't the starter at the season onset. His role (is he a starter or coming off the bench) and minutes were all over the place. Lots of volatility in his minutes. He played 58% of available minutes. Cheatham played 72.7% - which was more than junior JJJ at 56% (yet another idiotic underutilization.)
A fine example was Game 3 of that season against Iowa. Cheatham with 7 turnovers while playing 24 minutes. Traci played 13.
Traci played 14, 14, and 13 in the first 3 games of that season - then miraculously when placed into a major role at Preseason NIT (the next 3 games), team accomplished its best performance of that season - he played 32, 42 and 37 in those three games.
You guys act as if Wojo has been bulletproof on his playing time allocations, rotations, and decision-making. It really makes you look silly
So you're trying to use the first three games of the season as your barometer for how Wojo coached the entire season? Do you realize how "silly" that makes you look?
No one is saying Wojo is bulletproof, but pushing this constant narrative that Cheatham was the starting point guard that season when he spent the vast majority of his time at the 2 and 3 on the wing is just ridiculous and false. Stop lying.
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No sh$t Traci played all his minutes as a Point Guard. He wasn't the starter at the season onset. His role (is he a starter or coming off the bench) and minutes were all over the place. Lots of volatility in his minutes. He played 58% of available minutes. Cheatham played 72.7% - which was more than junior JJJ at 56% (yet another idiotic underutilization.)
A fine example was Game 3 of that season against Iowa. Cheatham with 7 turnovers while playing 24 minutes. Traci played 13.
Traci played 14, 14, and 13 in the first 3 games of that season - then miraculously when placed into a major role at Preseason NIT (the next 3 games), team accomplished its best performance of that season - he played 32, 42 and 37 in those three games.
You guys act as if Wojo has been bulletproof on his playing time allocations, rotations, and decision-making. It really makes you look silly
So your claim is that the minutes a player gets in game 1 of the season need to be the minutes a player gets every game of the season or there are some serious mindgames going on and no player could ever perform well if a coach ever adjusts his lineups during the course of a season?
El oh freaking el.
Talk about looking silly!
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There's actually a better board for you guys - you know the echo chamber Dodds runs - where only blue and gold kool aid is allowed. His board really is in much better alignment with your point of view along with TAMU, Wades, Tower and Brew.(whereby the approximate approval rating of Wojo based on posting history is 90+%).
You do realize this most recent offering of yours makes your signature quite ironic. Talk about being a snowflake?
That’s the board that you got banned from after you were banned from here, right?
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That’s the board that you got banned from after you were banned from here, right?
He was banned multiple times.
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That’s the board that you got banned from after you were banned from here, right?
Mr. Dodds runs a Pravda style operation with no opposing views allowed.
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There are ebbs and flows to every basketball game, every basketball season. Watch enough non-Marquette basketball, and you start to recognize patterns, game styles, sense when the momentum is about to change, see teams grow and evolve and learn. What always frustrates me is that so many think that the ebbs, flows, momentum, rhythms that happen elsewhere can't or don't or shouldn't happen at Marquette. Watch how other coaches substitute. Watch how other teams defend the pick and roll. Watch weakside defensive rotations. Watch off the ball screening and motion. Yes, some teams have Zion Williamson. Or Bol Bol. Watch how their minutes are managed and how their coaches set it up to get them the ball in their preferred places.
Under Buzz, the alpha was always the guy who would get the ball at the top of the key with 7-8 on the shot clock. The ball would move, the players would move, but if a shot was not found in the first 20 seconds, the ball would find the alpha (Blue, Butler, Crowder, Lazar, Jerel, Wes, DJ) at the top of the key with 7-8 seconds to go and they would make a play.
Last year, Theo was having his break out game. He had played extremely well for about 12 consecutive minutes and Wojo took him out and the MU cognoscenti lost their minds about it. Ignoring the fact that Theo had not played that many consecutive minutes all year and came out because he was gassed freshman big. And yet, if you watched other freshman bigs, you saw that they never played too many consecutive minutes on other teams. Coaches manage minutes.
Which brings us back to the original argument. There was a new starting line up yesterday. Cain started for the first time in his college career, a reward, perhaps for the energy he had brought off the bench and the desire for a fast start. It clearly didn't work. The team started flat and Cain missed two 3 pt shots early. Wojo started subbing looking for a better combination and was criticized for it because the team played poorly. My question is this. If Wojo HADN'T subbed, had left the same out of sync line up in for the first 6-7 minutes, would the same people be complaining the opposite point? Floorslapper acknowledges he doesn't think Wojo is a good coach. Fine. But IMO, that means that whatever strategy Wojo employs, FSNers is going to criticize it.
I think Wojo is a 'paint-by-numbers' coach and not an alchemist or magician. He continues to recruit gifted shooters who aren't quick enough on the defensive end, leaving his teams unbalanced. And no one who breaks down a defense, gets into the paint and creates openings for the gifted shooters. I haven't given up hope that he can get better, and I refuse to tear him down for making the exact same moves many, many successful coaches make.
We don't have anyone on the team with the fully integrated complete set of skills as the guys you mentioned above. Great example of your analogy was the game Vanders Junior year versus The Johnnies. I went to that game and every single person in the building knew Vander was going to get the ball and drive it to the hole for the winner. Yet he was still able to make the shot .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QygEB3AYu2g
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So you're trying to use the first three games of the season as your barometer for how Wojo coached the entire season? Do you realize how "silly" that makes you look?
No one is saying Wojo is bulletproof, but pushing this constant narrative that Cheatham was the starting point guard that season when he spent the vast majority ~ 50% of his time at the 2 and 3 on the wing is just ridiculous and false. Stop lying.
Fixed. Traci's minutes were all over the place all season long.
So your claim is that the minutes a player gets in game 1 of the season need to be the minutes a player gets every game of the season or there are some serious mindgames going on and no player could ever perform well if a coach ever adjusts his lineups during the course of a season?
El oh freaking el.
Talk about looking silly!
We missed the NIT. Results speak for themselves. With a one and done on the roster. Finished 97th in the country in Ken Pom.
That’s the board that you got banned from after you were banned from here, right?
Yes. It's an honor, actually.
The inability of some of you to have the emotional fortitude to tolerate a different opinion than your own is really quite "snowflake."
But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
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He sure as hell should, yes! But this is the coach that:
Maxed Derrick Wilson's playing time, while having Matt Carlino, Duane Wilson, and John Dawson as potential options to play guard positions.
Started Sandy Cohen ahead of Burton to start the 2015 season, and played the most talented guy on that roster, and returning All Big East Freshman, an average of 16 minutes per game.
Both of which led us to a 4-14 Big East campaign and missed NIT
Started Haanif Cheatham at PG frequently while Traci Carter was on the roster, and Traci played only 58% of available minutes.
We also missed the NIT that year, with a One and Done talent.
And now this year, after bringing in a grad transfer that is the caretaker/distributor type of PG, we see Markus Howard operating at PG, when nearly everyone could see from the last two seasons, and again early out the gate this year, Markus is without question best off the ball?
**Think the key word you use is "insight." Wojo knows more than any of us regarding X's and O's of basketball by the sheer volume of his time in the game, around the game, as a player as an assistant, etc. BUT, that is not translating as to having shown good judgement or good insight into how to manage his roster/personnel.
And thus, what this comes down to is you disagree with his insights and think yours are better. OK. that's fine. But let's not pretend a man that has been involved in basketball at some of the highest levels doesn't also have an opinion on basketball, supported by data, supported by his experience is doing things basketball related for years.
What ultimately comes down to in sports are hypotheticals. If only he had put in this pitcher, or pinch hit that guy, or yanked him, started him, all done in a vacuum of impossibility of outcome. No one, absolutely no one knows if any of the favored moves done by Joe Blow behind the keyboard or on the couch would have worked out better.
NO ONE.
So you go with people you believe will deliver results. Sometimes they don't succeed to the levels you want, that doesn't mean your way is the right way, either.
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The inability of some of you to have the emotional fortitude to tolerate a different opinion than your own is really quite "snowflake."
We can tolerate a difference in opinion just fine, and we do. We just think your stance is moronic, and embarrassing.
Also, your total lack of situational awareness (not realizing that many on here have more significant and higher level basketball experience than you), is frankly a bit concerning.
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Fixed. Traci's minutes were all over the place all season long.
We missed the NIT. Results speak for themselves. With a one and done on the roster. Finished 97th in the country in Ken Pom.
Yes. It's an honor, actually.
The inability of some of you to have the emotional fortitude to tolerate a different opinion than your own is really quite "snowflake."
But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
I'm all for different opinions, when there is some logic to the different opinions and we don't have to go back to 5 years ago to find examples for our reasoning.
The main point here is that if I was in my mid-40s and was banned from two different Marquette basketball forums I'd probably look myself in the mirror and ask what the hell I was doing, and probably avoid continuing to create new accounts where I've already been banned more than once.
To each their own.
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But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
No, clearly you don't.
I think TAMU has been accurate in saying that thus far, Wojo has been a C-level coach. He's met expectations. Hasn't exceeded them, hasn't underachieved. I don't see anyone suggesting he's the next great coach, the consensus from those of us who have been patient is that there are reasons to be encouraged (the offense, recruiting) and reasons to be discouraged (the defense, overall results) and that this year is rubber meets the road time.
I've been patient because there have been enough reasons for optimism to allow Wojo to prove if he can get the expected results out of a favored team. If he doesn't deliver this year, you'll see that patience run out. If this season continues to look like this past Wednesday, people will jump ship. That's been the case for the past 5 years, but you don't get that because you wrote him off the second he dared to play Derrick Wilson ahead of John Dawson.
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(http://media.giphy.com/media/gxqSoR09Lf1le/giphy.gif)
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There's actually a better board for you guys - you know the echo chamber Dodds runs - where only blue and gold kool aid is allowed. His board really is in much better alignment with your point of view along with TAMU, Wades, Tower and Brew.(whereby the approximate approval rating of Wojo based on posting history is 90+%).
You do realize this most recent offering of yours makes your signature quite ironic. Talk about being a snowflake?
Uh no. You are the one who continues to use the same old arguments. I mean, I don't really care. But again, self-awareness is still one of your problems.
And no, I am not wearing blue and gold goggles. Wojo has hardly been stellar as a coach. But many of your arguments about him are ridiculous. They've always been.
Have a good day.
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I take it back. What happened to you Blue Man? Seems like you used to get it? How bout this Hot Take? I didn't bother to dive deeper than your first page upon joining.
So - A consistent role, not getting yanked for missing a shot, investing into JJJ, Burton, Duane, Luke, Steve Taylor - looked like good ideas to you for Wojo Year 1?
I totally agreed. Unfortunately, Wojo did none of the above, and ultimately still struggles with defining a consistent role, and yanking guys out of the game for missing a couple of good shot attemtps - as we saw with Cain today 2:30 into the game.
My posts in this thread are not because I believe Wojo is above reproach or even about his substitution patterns. My comments from year 1 of Wojo are not relevant either to this conversation as the circumstances for that team and this team are completely different.
I played in high school and as a senior coached a park district team of freshman - juniors. I don't think that has any bearing on how much I know or understand about the game as compared to someone that didn't play. In fact I'm sure there are some on this board that didn't play that are absolutely more knowledgeable than me.
I just think it's absurd that you talk down to people and assume you know more because you played in high school. It's silly.
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We can tolerate a difference in opinion just fine, and we do. We just think your stance is moronic, and embarrassing.
Also, your total lack of situational awareness (not realizing that many on here have more significant and higher level basketball experience than you), is frankly a bit concerning.
#FakeNews. The same handful of you Wojo fanboys get so bent/twisted. Let's here your non-moronic "stance." You think Wojo is a good coach? Please - go ahead and lay out your case. And P.S., your "we" number is diminishing by each season, and each game. Your "we" is expecting us to get "shellacked" in Year 5 of the regime because we play the Number 1 team on a neutral floor.
Uh no. You are the one who continues to use the same old arguments. I mean, I don't really care. But again, self-awareness is still one of your problems.
And no, I am not wearing blue and gold goggles. Wojo has hardly been stellar as a coach. But many of your arguments about him are ridiculous. They've always been.
Have a good day.
Same old arguments because we get the same old results and same old bizarre player personnel/rotation decisions.
I'm all for different opinions, when there is some logic to the different opinions and we don't have to go back to 5 years ago to find examples for our reasoning.
The main point here is that if I was in my mid-40s and was banned from two different Marquette basketball forums I'd probably look myself in the mirror and ask what the hell I was doing, and probably avoid continuing to create new accounts where I've already been banned more than once.
To each their own.
Considering it is the result of the same handful of grown men having to use a "report to moderator" feature because they simply can't "win" their arguments? I'm not too concerned. Furthermore, coming from a guy like you who lies about his experience and PM's he sends, it's even less of a concern.
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No one reports you because they don't "win." They report you because of how you utilize the forum. This is exactly what I mean by lack of self-awareness. TSmith34 stated it best:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56103.msg1011332#msg1011332
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#FakeNews. The same handful of you Wojo fanboys get so bent/twisted. Let's here your non-moronic "stance." You think Wojo is a good coach? Please - go ahead and lay out your case. And P.S., your "we" number is diminishing by each season, and each game. Your "we" is expecting us to get "shellacked" in Year 5 of the regime because we play the Number 1 team on a neutral floor.
Same old arguments because we get the same old results and same old bizarre player personnel/rotation decisions.
Considering it is the result of the same handful of grown men having to use a "report to moderator" feature because they simply can't "win" their arguments? I'm not too concerned. Furthermore, coming from a guy like you who lies about his experience and PM's he sends, it's even less of a concern.
I've never once reported a single poster or post to a moderator lol. But keep telling yourself you're so important that everyone here has a vendetta against you.
I absolutely PM'd you at your request after you asked the exact same question. Maybe it was over on Dodd's board after you had been banned at Scoop, and before you had been banned there (lol). Try checking that accounts PMs. I can't remember which username I sent it to on which board, it's hard to keep track of all your usernames because you get banned every few months, sorry.
My credentials don't need to be given to a bunch of people that don't care because you think you're some all knowing basketball knowledge because you dunked at a rec center and you were an All North Woods Conference performer your senior year 25 years ago. But congrats to you, a great honor that you clearly are still very proud of. As I've stated many a time, I don't know how such a decorated athlete like you would ever waste your time with someone who's never touched a basketball in his life like me. Crazy, and I'm honored that you take the time to respond. A true WIAA great, discussing sports with me. What an honor.
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No one reports you because they don't "win." They report you because of how you utilize the forum. This is exactly what I mean by lack of self-awareness. TSmith34 stated it best:
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=56103.msg1011332#msg1011332
Gotcha "how you utilize the forum." That's rich. You don't seem to be able to comprehend or process that it takes two sides to have a debate and a "forum." You and the same handful of posters go into your childish herd mentality and try to shout me down. Talk about a bunch of puds.
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I've never once reported a single poster or post to a moderator lol. But keep telling yourself you're so important that everyone here has a vendetta against you.
I absolutely PM'd you at your request after you asked the exact same question. Maybe it was over on Dodd's board after you had been banned at Scoop, and before you had been banned there (lol). Try checking that accounts PMs. I can't remember which username I sent it to on which board, it's hard to keep track of all your usernames because you get banned every few months, sorry.
My credentials don't need to be given to a bunch of people that don't care because you think you're some all knowing basketball knowledge because you dunked at a rec center and you were an All North Woods Conference performer your senior year 25 years ago. But congrats to you, a great honor that you clearly are still very proud of. As I've stated many a time, I don't know how such a decorated athlete like you would ever waste your time with someone who's never touched a basketball in his life like me. Crazy, and I'm honored that you take the time to respond. A true WIAA great, discussing sports with me. What an honor.
#Wadesunhinged.
You should try to get some new material. You are welcome to continue with your silly diatribe about my background/credentials, but we both know the truth: You never PM'd me jack on the topic because you don't have ANY credentials as it relates to basketball. So despite how minor mine are, yours are even more ridiculous.
Yet, here you are, year after year, posting professing to #trusttheprocess and tell us just how great things are going to be under Wojo - while taking offense to those who don't think the guy has "it." So far bud - It looks a hell of a lot more likely that your mancrush on Wojo was ill-advised (if you care about MU winning at a level on par with Crean and Buzz.)
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Gotcha "how you utilize the forum." That's rich. You don't seem to be able to comprehend or process that it takes two sides to have a debate and a "forum." You and the same handful of posters go into your childish herd mentality and try to shout me down. Talk about a bunch of puds.
OK. Have a nice evening.
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#Wadesunhinged.
You should try to get some new material. You are welcome to continue with your silly diatribe about my background/credentials, but we both know the truth: You never PM'd me jack on the topic because you don't have ANY credentials as it relates to basketball. So despite how minor mine are, yours are even more ridiculous.
Yet, here you are, year after year, posting professing to #trusttheprocess and tell us just how great things are going to be under Wojo - while taking offense to those who don't think the guy has "it." So far bud - It looks a hell of a lot more likely that your mancrush on Wojo was ill-advised (if you care about MU winning at a level on par with Crean and Buzz.)
Lol. Okay. I guess I made it up then. Your word against mine. The guy who's been banned from multiple forums multiple times and claims that he was some superstar and still talks about it on said forums 20+ years later. You can pretend I didn't send you one. That's fine. Again, I'm comfortable enough with myself that I don't need to tell everyone on an anonymous basketball forum that I once dunked a basketball at the MU Rec Center. That's your thing pal. And again, congrats, that's super cool.
The irony of you telling someone else to find new material...sheesh! Lol.
I've never once in my life said trust the process. Try again.
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Just read this thread.
I laughed, I cried. I wasted every second. Amazing.
I didn’t gain any insight this whole thread. Good times.
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Getting back to the topic of the thread. I have been incredibly impressed by how Patrick Ewing works with his young players. Akinjo and McClung both have a lot of talent, but are going through various growing issues. Akinjo playing out of control at times and McClung is 1-17 from 3. Ewing is demanding and periodically sits them, but then shows confidence in these young players and brings them back into the game and both have played solid roles in their victories as a result .
I have noticed the same thing with Ed Cooley. He is super tough on his kids but he never projects a lack of confidence in them.
A lot of management is how you communicate the message.
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Getting back to the topic of the thread. I have been incredibly impressed by how Patrick Ewing works with his young players. Akinjo and McClung both have a lot of talent, but are going through various growing issues. Akinjo playing out of control at times and McClung is 1-17 from 3. Ewing is demanding and periodically sits them, but then shows confidence in these young players and brings them back into the game and both have played solid roles in their victories as a result .
I have noticed the same thing with Ed Cooley. He is super tough on his kids but he never projects a lack of confidence in them.
A lot of management is how you communicate the message.
Did you see how Wojo pulled Chartouny aside and calmed him down, clearly indicating confidence in him and helping settle his nerves before he came back in and changed the pace of the game.
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Did you see how Wojo pulled Chartouny aside and calmed him down, clearly indicating confidence in him and helping settle his nerves before he came back in and changed the pace of the game.
Yes. It was very encouraging.
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Lol. Okay. I guess I made it up then. Your word against mine. The guy who's been banned from multiple forums multiple times and claims that he was some superstar and still talks about it on said forums 20+ years later. You can pretend I didn't send you one. That's fine. Again, I'm comfortable enough with myself that I don't need to tell everyone on an anonymous basketball forum that I once dunked a basketball at the MU Rec Center. That's your thing pal. And again, congrats, that's super cool.
The irony of you telling someone else to find new material...sheesh! Lol.
I've never once in my life said trust the process. Try again.
My bad. Even worse/cheesier - your continued moniker of: Respect the process. A quick use of the Search feature shows we have "respect the process" showing up in 15 pages of threads on MU Scoop - thanks to you coining that statement as it relates to Wojo.
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My bad. Even worse/cheesier - your continued moniker of: Respect the process. A quick use of the Search feature shows we have "respect the process" showing up in 15 pages of threads on MU Scoop - thanks to you coining that statement as it relates to Wojo.
So you were wrong? Got it. That’s what I said.
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Fixed. Traci's minutes were all over the place all season long.
We missed the NIT. Results speak for themselves. With a one and done on the roster. Finished 97th in the country in Ken Pom.
Yes. It's an honor, actually.
The inability of some of you to have the emotional fortitude to tolerate a different opinion than your own is really quite "snowflake."
But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
In what world is 4 games into a possible 40 game season equal to half of the season?
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In what world is 4 games in equal to half of the season?
An 8 game middle school season.
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An 8 game middle school season.
touche'
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In what world is 4 games in equal to half of the season?
Right. Of the 30 games MU played after the 3 games Ners references to start the season, Traci played 21 or more minutes in 23 of them. Of the 7 that he did not, he finished with 4 or 5 fouls in 4 of them. The narrative doesn't fit the agenda, but that's never stopped Ners from crying, so why start now?
An 8 game middle school season.
And wouldn't you know it, Ners put up 50 burgers in half of his team's games in middle school.
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Does he have any 6th grade eligibility left? I might be able to use him, if he plays defense, passes the ball, and can handle my egalitarian substitution patterns.
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Did you see how Wojo pulled Chartouny aside and calmed him down, clearly indicating confidence in him and helping settle his nerves before he came back in and changed the pace of the game.
Another thing I saw that seemed to help Joe get more comfortable was Sam encouraging him on the floor after an assist. I think it was later in the second half, and Chartouny was driving then passed back to Sam who laid it in (I think for an and-one). After the made basket Sam was fired up and chest bumped Chartouny, and if I can read lips at all, he said something like "that's the way we f***ing play!"
I'm sure there were a number of moments that helped Joe on Saturday, but he seemed to get a little attitude, a little swagger after Sam's chest bump. It was almost like you could see the team gelling there. And hopefully that continues to happen more and more and can translate into some better offensive rhythm.
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I'm sure there were a number of moments that helped Joe on Saturday, but he seemed to get a little attitude, a little swagger after Sam's chest bump. It was almost like you could see the team gelling there. And hopefully that continues to happen more and more and can translate into some better offensive rhythm.
Yep, seemed like a little more glue was being spread around the team.
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Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.
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Yep, seemed like a little more glue was being spread around the team.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/db8b340a060cb58b9f3eb99f5d019cd7/tenor.gif?itemid=4921295)
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Yeah... Coach woulda put me in fourth quarter, we would've been state champions. No doubt. No doubt in my mind.
How much you wanna bet I could throw a football over them mountains?
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In what world is 4 games into a possible 40 game season equal to half of the season?
Guess the topic won't die. What does a "possible" 40 game season have to do with the concrete 33 game season that year? Your point doesn't change the fact Wojo started that season thinking Cheatham was the answer at PG, just as he has this year with Howard at PG.
Furthermore, Traci didn't hit 30 minutes of playing time in the first 15 Big East games that season. Most starters play 30 minutes on a consistent basis in college hoop.
Right. Of the 30 games MU played after the 3 games Ners references to start the season, Traci played 21 or more minutes in 23 of them. Of the 7 that he did not, he finished with 4 or 5 fouls in 4 of them. The narrative doesn't fit the agenda, but that's never stopped Ners from crying, so why start now?
And wouldn't you know it, Ners put up 50 burgers in half of his team's games in middle school.
Great point. Traci played about 55% of available minutes. Someone else was running the point the other 45% of the time.
BTW - Is 50 burger your new #respecttheprocess?
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Guess the topic won't die. What does a "possible" 40 game season have to do with the concrete 33 game season that year? Your point doesn't change the fact Wojo started that season thinking Cheatham was the answer at PG, just as he has this year with Howard at PG.
Furthermore, Traci didn't hit 30 minutes of playing time in the first 15 Big East games that season. Most starters play 30 minutes on a consistent basis in college hoop.
With trepidation I wade into this $hitshow. You said 4.5 seasons of the Wojo era, and as we are 4 games into the 5th season, it would appear that 4.5 is a very poor representation of where we are.
Further, you seem to be down on the Howard as PG era, and while I have my concerns, what exactly do you have issue with regarding Howard as PG?
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Guess the topic won't die. What does a "possible" 40 game season have to do with the concrete 33 game season that year? Your point doesn't change the fact Wojo started that season thinking Cheatham was the answer at PG, just as he has this year with Howard at PG.
Furthermore, Traci didn't hit 30 minutes of playing time in the first 15 Big East games that season. Most starters play 30 minutes on a consistent basis in college hoop.
Great point. Traci played about 55% of available minutes. Someone else was running the point the other 45% of the time.
Or simply early in the season Traci/JC were not ready/performing well and needed a little time to work into the role, to not overwhelm them early and hurt their development. And the plan the entire time was to transition them to primary roles as the early season progressed.
You know, just like every major respected coach does, and how numerous hall of fame coaches do.
Nah, that couldn't be, because you played high-school ball and know better than anyone.
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Guess the topic won't die. What does a "possible" 40 game season have to do with the concrete 33 game season that year? Your point doesn't change the fact Wojo started that season thinking Cheatham was the answer at PG, just as he has this year with Howard at PG.
Furthermore, Traci didn't hit 30 minutes of playing time in the first 15 Big East games that season. Most starters play 30 minutes on a consistent basis in college hoop.
WTH are you talking about in your response? You said
But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
It is not 4.5 seasons into Wojo's tenure unless you're expecting there to be 8 games this year. Nowhere did I mention Traci or anything else
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With trepidation I wade into this $hitshow. You said 4.5 seasons of the Wojo era, and as we are 4 games into the 5th season, it would appear that 4.5 is a very poor representation of where we are.
Further, you seem to be down on the Howard as PG era, and while I have my concerns, what exactly do you have issue with regarding Howard as PG?
Thank you for helping me explain that. Seems like it made sense to everybody but him.
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Thank you for helping me explain that. Seems like it made sense to everybody but him.
Evergreen statement about Ners
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30 mpg is not some magical barrier for starters in the college game. last year Sacar averaged under 30, 16-17 everyone averaged under 30, 15-16 the only one who hit 30 per was Hank.
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30 mpg is not some magical barrier for starters in the college game. last year Sacar averaged under 30, 16-17 everyone averaged under 30, 15-16 the only one who hit 30 per was Hank.
Yeah. Very few starters in the country average 30 MPG. I'd venture to guess, on average, maybe 2 players per team average 30 MPG in the NCAA.
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Buzz rarely had starters go more than 30. (But one of them was Derrick Wilson in 13-14.)
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The 30 min mark was eclipsed (on average) by 23 BE players last year, 19 in 2017, 17 in 2016.....31 ACC players in 2018, 30 in 2017, and 33 in 2016. Just some examples
So I think it's safe to say that typically 2 players per team get 30 minutes or more a season. Those also tend to be the very best players so I'm not sure how it's relevant to TC, but whatevs these are the facts we have.
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WTH are you talking about in your response? You said
It is not 4.5 seasons into Wojo's tenure unless you're expecting there to be 8 games this year. Nowhere did I mention Traci or anything else
Try to follow along - the post of mine you quoted - the topic was Traci - and him not starting the first 3 games of that season/and not getting major minutes.
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Try to follow along - the post of mine you quoted - the topic was Traci - and him not starting the first 3 games of that season/and not getting major minutes.
I am trying to follow along so please break down what the 4 and half year timeline is too me because I'm apparently too thick to understand and the others that agreed with what I said can't follow either.
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The 30 min mark was eclipsed (on average) by 23 BE players last year, 19 in 2017, 17 in 2016.....31 ACC players in 2018, 30 in 2017, and 33 in 2016. Just some examples
So I think it's safe to say that typically 2 players per team get 30 minutes or more a season. Those also tend to be the very best players so I'm not sure how it's relevant to TC, but whatevs these are the facts we have.
Thanks for the research. PG is the most important position on the floor. Good things happened for that team in the games Traci played 30+. Went 7-1 with the one loss to Number 1 Villanova. Felt it was a no-brainer that year that Traci was far and away the clear cut, best pure PG on the roster and should have been maximized - not played 59% of the minutes for the season. Would have played him 70-75% of minutes.
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I am trying to follow along so please break down what the 4 and half year timeline is too me because I'm apparently too thick to understand and the others that agreed with what I said can't follow either.
The topic was Traci not starting the first 3 games of the season. As for the 4.5 year comment, that is calendar year time Wojo's been on the job.
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Re: Losing Formula: Kneejerk Substituting (Wojo's forte)
« Reply #109 on: Today at 07:52:04 AM »
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Quote from: Floorslapper on November 18, 2018, 11:16:51 AM
Fixed. Traci's minutes were all over the place all season long.
We missed the NIT. Results speak for themselves. With a one and done on the roster. Finished 97th in the country in Ken Pom.
Yes. It's an honor, actually.
The inability of some of you to have the emotional fortitude to tolerate a different opinion than your own is really quite "snowflake."
But then again, I get it - it probably is frustrating to have put all your chips on Wojo and now 4.5 years in without an NCAA tourney win, 2 missed NIT's and one NIT Quarterfinal - to have to try to pretzel logic yourself into a position of suggesting he's a good coach.
In what world is 4 games into a possible 40 game season equal to half of the season?
« Last Edit: Today at 08:27:56 AM by Galway Eagle »
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Traci isn't even getting 30 minutes a game at 0-4 LaSalle....with two extra years of development. Still early so that could change.
Try to follow along - the post of mine you quoted - the topic was Traci - and him not starting the first 3 games of that season/and not getting major minutes.
The 4.5 years thing is an excellent example. Ners, often no one has issue with your main premise. You think Traci should have played more minutes. Not everyone will agree but that is a more than reasonable opinion. But then you say things like "we're 4.5 years into Wojo's tenure" when we're only 4 games into season 5. That's what people are usually questioning.
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The topic was Traci not starting the first 3 games of the season. As for the 4.5 year comment, that is calendar year time Wojo's been on the job.
Who goes by that for a timeline? That's like me faulting Wojo for no wins from April to October his first year.
Again I wasn't commenting on anything to do with traci, I was merely curious why you chose four and a half years
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Who goes by that for a timeline? That's like me faulting Wojo for no wins from April to October his first year.
Again I wasn't commenting on anything to do with traci, I was merely curious why you chose four and a half years
That's fine. The post you quoted, the "lead" was regarding Traci. The point in the last paragraph about 4.5 years of Wojo's tenure was simply a statement of fact as to how long he's been on the job and the results thus far.
Traci isn't even getting 30 minutes a game at 0-4 LaSalle....with two extra years of development. Still early so that could change.
The 4.5 years thing is an excellent example. Ners, often no one has issue with your main premise. You think Traci should have played more minutes. Not everyone will agree but that is a more than reasonable opinion. But then you say things like "we're 4.5 years into Wojo's tenure" when we're only 4 games into season 5. That's what people are usually questioning.
Yea, Traci is averaging 27.25 minutes thus far at La Salle under their first-time head coach. He's been a little slower out of the gate than I would have thought, but considering he's not played in a real college game for 1.5 years, perhaps partially to explain.
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I'd like to unsubscribe to the Traci should have played more narrative. It's just mental masturbation at this point regardless of your viewpoint.
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Further, you seem to be down on the Howard as PG era, and while I have my concerns, what exactly do you have issue with regarding Howard as PG?
His turnovers can be inexplicably bad. Last year, we saw him struggle to break even modest press pressure. The ball doesn't flow as well when he runs point. He doesn't score as well when he runs point. We see more hero ball when he brings the ball up. Simply put, he becomes a worse basketball player when he's out of his natural position.
Markus is a very talented player, so I'm sure he could figure it out in time. But he's so good at the 2, why would you want to pull him away from that spot? His basketball IQ seems to change when he runs the point too. His decision-making just isn't as good, and he doesn't seem to be comfortable distributing the ball.
Just my two cents from the last 1.5 seasons ;)
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I'd like to unsubscribe to the Traci should have played more narrative. It's just mental masturbation at this point regardless of your viewpoint.
The relevant context was: Will Wojo once again stubbornly try to square peg the round hole and play Markus at PG this season while limiting Chartouney - as he did many times with Cheatham over Carter?
Let's hope Joe's in the starting lineup from here moving forward and that Wojo lock in on a solid and consistent starting 5, with guys having a consistent role.
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The relevant context was: Will Wojo once again stubbornly try to square peg the round hole and play Markus at PG this season while limiting Chartouney - as he did many times with Cheatham over Carter?
Let's hope Joe's in the starting lineup from here moving forward and that Wojo lock in on a solid and consistent starting 5, with guys having a consistent role.
Cheatham played very, very little point guard.
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Let's not act as if Traci was some all star at point guard. He turned the ball over A TON. Haanif wasn't great at point either no doubt, but its not as though he had Tiny Archibald waiting on the bench.
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The relevant context was: Will Wojo once again stubbornly try to square peg the round hole and play Markus at PG this season while limiting Chartouney - as he did many times with Cheatham over Carter?
Let's hope Joe's in the starting lineup from here moving forward and that Wojo lock in on a solid and consistent starting 5, with guys having a consistent role.
Context: It's in Markus' best long term interests to play PG at MU. Chartouney is new to the team and isn't going to go max minutes at the PG position 4 games into a season.
Further context: Haanif played very little PG over TC in 2016....in fact, Haanif doesn't even show up as a PG in Kenpom and TC averaged 24 min at PG as a freshman. In 2017 TC was replaced by Rowsey and Markus at the point(not Haanif), certainly arguably to be better talent at the position than TC given how TC has done at LaSalle.
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Context: It's in Markus' best long term interests to play PG at MU. Chartouney is new to the team and isn't going to go max minutes at the PG position 4 games into a season.
Further context: Haanif played very little PG over TC in 2016....in fact, Haanif doesn't even show up as a PG in Kenpom and TC averaged 24 min at PG as a freshman. In 2017 TC was replaced by Rowsey and Markus at the point(not Haanif), certainly arguably to be better talent at the position than TC given how TC has done at LaSalle.
Not to mention Traci sited the talent at point guard in his reason as to why he was transferring.
Then again, Ners likes to say that when Burton sited his mother's passing as a reason he was transferring from Marquette he really meant Wojo was playing mind games with him and he wasn't getting the playing time he should've been seeing, so...
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Since sample size is apparently irrelevant here, Traci is averaging 6 points and 3.8 assists per game in 27 minutes per game at LaSalle. He is shooting 38%.
1 of his 4 games has been against a high major team.
I liked Traci, but he didn't have a path to playing time here as an upperclassman. He's just not good enough.
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Cheatham played very, very little point guard.
Don't let facts get in the way of a Ners narrative.
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Cheatham played very, very little point guard.
Don't let facts get in the way of a Ners narrative.
You two might want to take a closer look into the data. Here's Traci's season:
Games 1-3: Not a starter
Games 4 - 18: Starter
Games 19 - 29: Not a starter
Games 30-33: Starter
So, Traci started 18 games, didn't 15 games. Duane Wilson RARELY was running PG that season. Cheatham played PG most of the time Traci didn't play.
The last 5 games of the season Eng referenced, as Pomeroy's charts show, of course Traci was in the most common lineups - because he started 4 of last 5 games and played 30+ in three of those 5 games.
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Guess the topic won't die.
he said, without a trace of irony or self-awareness.
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Since sample size is apparently irrelevant here, Traci is averaging 6 points and 3.8 assists per game in 27 minutes per game at LaSalle. He is shooting 38%.
1 of his 4 games has been against a high major team.
I liked Traci, but he didn't have a path to playing time here as an upperclassman. He's just not good enough.
It is worth noting that Traci is also averaging 3 steals and 3 rebounds a game with a solid Assist to turnover ratio.
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You two might want to take a closer look into the data. Here's Traci's season:
Games 1-3: Not a starter
Games 4 - 18: Starter
Games 19 - 29: Not a starter
Games 30-33: Starter
So, Traci started 18 games, didn't 15 games. Duane Wilson RARELY was running PG that season. Cheatham played PG most of the time Traci didn't play.
The last 5 games of the season Eng referenced, as Pomeroy's charts show, of course Traci was in the most common lineups - because he started 4 of last 5 games and played 30+ in three of those 5 games.
I'm on my phone so can't post all the numbers but this is factually inaccurate. Even when TC didn't "start" there wasn't an appreciable difference in his minutes played and HC played no PG until sophomore year
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It is worth noting that Traci is also averaging 3 steals and 3 rebounds a game with a solid Assist to turnover ratio.
Well $hit, we had a 10 to 1 kill ratio on the ground in Vietnam....bet we won that war
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I'm on my phone so can't post all the numbers but this is factually inaccurate. Even when TC didn't "start" there wasn't an appreciable difference in his minutes played and HC played no PG until sophomore year
Dude stop it. That doesn't fit the Ners agenda.
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Traci was okay, but he had a low ceiling and was never going to be anything more than a role player at the high major level. Better than Derrick, but on a good team, he’d be similar to what Derrick was in 2012-13. I’m sure Wojo would’ve been happy to have him around this year and last, but TC obviously wanted to be more than a junkyard dog type of guy. I don’t blame him for transferring and never thought his leaving was a huge loss.
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Traci was okay, but he had a low ceiling and was never going to be anything more than a role player at the high major level. Better than Derrick, but on a good team, he’d be similar to what Derrick was in 2012-13. I’m sure Wojo would’ve been happy to have him around this year and last, but TC obviously wanted to be more than a junkyard dog type of guy. I don’t blame him for transferring and never thought his leaving was a huge loss.
He would have been a contributor as he was one of the few guys we had that was actually quick. We needed a junkyard dog. I liked the kid and hope he does well at LaSalle.
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Traci was okay, but he had a low ceiling and was never going to be anything more than a role player at the high major level. Better than Derrick, but on a good team, he’d be similar to what Derrick was in 2012-13. I’m sure Wojo would’ve been happy to have him around this year and last, but TC obviously wanted to be more than a junkyard dog type of guy. I don’t blame him for transferring and never thought his leaving was a huge loss.
I expected him to do a lot more at a mid-major, though. Of course, he is only 4 games in as well and may need time to settle in like all our recent transfers have.
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I expected him to do a lot more at a mid-major, though. Of course, he is only 4 games in as well and may need time to settle in like all our recent transfers have.
In Ners time, Traci has scored 27 points in his 1 year and 11 months at LaSalle.
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I expected him to do a lot more at a mid-major, though. Of course, he is only 4 games in as well and may need time to settle in like all our recent transfers have.
He’s doing about what I expected. I liked him, but never thought he had high major talent. To me, he was a Mike Deane level player. Even if he’d been on the team last year, I still think Wojo would’ve played Rowsey and Markus together more often than not. TC thought that, too, and that’s why he’s not here anymore. Heck, if it wasn’t for Scoop, I’d have mostly forgotten about him and Haani.
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He would have been a contributor as he was one of the few guys we had that was actually quick. We needed a junkyard dog. I liked the kid and hope he does well at LaSalle.
Traci wasn’t quick.
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He’s doing about what I expected. I liked him, but never thought he had high major talent. To me, he was a Mike Deane level player. Even if he’d been on the team last year, I still think Wojo would’ve played Rowsey and Markus together more often than not. TC thought that, too, and that’s why he’s not here anymore. Heck, if it wasn’t for Scoop, I’d have mostly forgotten about him and Haani.
I think your correct about Markus and Andrew getting the lions share of the guard minutes and Traci understanding that. I believe Traci brought something to the table that none of the other players had so we did lose a skill set that would have come in handy from time to time.
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I think Greg is pretty similar to Traci. Traci a bit stronger, Greg a bit better shooter.
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I think Greg is pretty similar to Traci. Traci a bit stronger, Greg a bit better shooter.
Greg is also a pogo stick.
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I'm on my phone so can't post all the numbers but this is factually inaccurate. Even when TC didn't "start" there wasn't an appreciable difference in his minutes played and HC played no PG until sophomore year
#FakeNews. Cheatham played PG quite a bit as a freshman...and started in that role Game 1 of his career at MU. Duane was tried at PG for about 3 games as I recall when Traci was put on the bench games 19-29. As that post reflected, Traci's role was all over and it speaks to my overarching frustration with Wojo: He is all over the place with lineups and roles.
I think Greg is pretty similar to Traci. Traci a bit stronger, Greg a bit better shooter.
Greg has some of that leader/dog quality in him that Traci had. Greg is bouncier, taller, longer - but Traci quicker, with a better ability to breakdown a defense/defender off the dribble/force help.
Traci was going to be odd man out the year he transferred out as Rowsey/Howard better, but Traci brought the D and attitude to the team than neither Andrew/Markus could. He could have been used that season in PG role, an tag team Rowsey/Markus at the 2, and roll Rowsey to PG when Traci needed a breather for 8-10 minutes per game.
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Any thoughts on this topic?
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I predict that next rant will be about the treatment of Cain. A really bad turnover to start the second half and he was never heard from again.
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I predict that next rant will be about the treatment of Cain. A really bad turnover to start the second half and he was never heard from again.
Two terrible plays really
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I predict that next rant will be about the treatment of Cain. A really bad turnover to start the second half and he was never heard from again.
I realize I am in the minority but I have not understood all the gushing about Cain's supposed improvements this year. I haven't seen it. He's looked at best the same as last year but with poorer shooting.
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Cain still looks like he is thinking to much. Seems to being playing scared not wanting to screw up. Causing him to pick up his dribble in bad situations. He’s got the athleticism and has some skill, but mentally I don’t think he’s got it yet. Once his confidence and basketball IQ improves I believe he could be special.
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Cain has been pretty bad. Solid defender because of his length but struggles to move laterally. Offers nothing on offense currently if he is unable to knock down an open jumper.
Still young and can improve, but he needs to learn to dribble and pass capably.
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Cain's defense is much better this season, that's why he's starting. His rebounding has improved as well. He's bringing nothing on the offensive end at the moment. Not his fault this game. Louisville's entire strategy was to give no breathing room on the three point line and he simply isn't quick enough to do anything besides catch and shoot.