MU #3 behind Georgetown and Villanova.
3. Marquette (59) – No one in the league has more resources, and just about every coach has had success – although different levels. Al McGuire led Marquette to its lone national championship way back in 1977, Kevin O'Neill took the program to the Sweet 16 in 1994, Tom Crean went to the Final Four in 2003, Buzz Williams went to an Elite Eight and a pair of Sweet 16's in his final three seasons. The only real downside is its recruiting base.
Where they win: "Resources, game facilities, support from the administration and fan base. This is a much better job than people realize. Marquette has everything." – Big East administrator
The knock: "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette. Other than that, it's one of the more underrated jobs in the league ... and maybe in the entire country." – Big East assistant
https://watchstadium.com/news/big-east-basketball-coaches-rank-the-best-jobs-in-the-conference-11-02-2018/
Ummm - we've been getting our share of Wisconsin kids lately.
Not sure about the knock. Both teams have 3 scholarship kids from the state and in the coming years, I'd be honestly curious how many other states have as many top-10 kids as Wisconsin does.
Yeah, the BEast assistant is an idiot. We've gotten pretty much every important kid in Wisconsin of those that want to stay in state for several years.
No Brevin Pritzl doesn't count.
Nice find. Liked their methodology. Liked that it was also a survey, where the answers were provided by the in-league coaches.
Let's hope Wojo joins the long list of coaches with success at MU. No doubt Wojo walked into Marquette in a prime position, and without question the easiest task at hand as compared to O'Neill, Deane, Crean, Buzz.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 02, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
Nice find. Liked their methodology. Liked that it was also a survey, where the answers were provided by the in-league coaches.
Let's hope Wojo joins the long list of coaches with success at MU. No doubt Wojo walked into Marquette in a prime position, and without question the easiest task at hand as compared to O'Neill, Deane, Crean, Buzz.
Buzz had a loaded roster and left Wojo with crumbs.
Quote from: jsglow on November 02, 2018, 04:12:23 PM
Yeah, the BEast assistant is an idiot. We've gotten pretty much every important kid in Wisconsin of those that want to stay in state for several years.
No Brevin Pritzl doesn't count.
Might be a little harsh to say about someone who does this for a living. He probably just assumed that because of UW's recent successes or from some personal experience.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 02, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
Nice find. Liked their methodology. Liked that it was also a survey, where the answers were provided by the in-league coaches.
Let's hope Wojo joins the long list of coaches with success at MU. No doubt Wojo walked into Marquette in a prime position, and without question the easiest task at hand as compared to O'Neill, Deane, Crean, Buzz.
Please, Buzz has a wayyyy easier time with the Amigos and Zar.
It's not even remotely close.
Guys, don't let Ners suck you down that wormhole again.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 02, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
Might be a little harsh to say about someone who does this for a living. He probably just assumed that because of UW's recent successes or from some personal experience.
Fair enough. But he's very wrong.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 02, 2018, 05:13:56 PM
Please, Buzz has a wayyyy easier time with the Amigos and Zar.
It's not even remotely close.
+1000. Classic Ners.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 02, 2018, 04:46:52 PM
Nice find. Liked their methodology. Liked that it was also a survey, where the answers were provided by the in-league coaches.
Let's hope Wojo joins the long list of coaches with success at MU. No doubt Wojo walked into Marquette in a prime position, and without question the easiest task at hand as compared to O'Neill, Deane, Crean, Buzz.
Buzz comes into prime BE with Lazar and the 3 Amigos as upper classmen. Buzz runs from the new BE because he can't be competitive in a crap league, according to him, and leaves three meh freshmen, Juan Anderson, and Derrick Wilson for the new coach.
Yeah, way easier!
For someone who pretends to be smarter than everyone else...yikes!
Quote from: jsglow on November 02, 2018, 05:28:56 PM
Fair enough. But he's very wrong.
Yep. I could see someone expressing that opinion a few years back, but in the Wojo era, we have done just fine with in-state recruits.
I think the poll is well done overall . The comments were picked out by the author to make the article interesting but are not completely accurate for many teams.
Quote from: skianth16 on November 02, 2018, 05:09:55 PM
Might be a little harsh to say about someone who does this for a living. He probably just assumed that because of UW's recent successes or from some personal experience.
Nah. It's warranted. That's a claim that is easily factually refuted.
I don't really understand the "Buy Game" category -- somewhere Marquette ranks really well. Does anyone in the conference really get bought out of games? How does Villanova rank last in that category?
Quote from: wadesworld on November 02, 2018, 05:50:43 PM
Buzz comes into prime The REAL BE with Lazar and the 3 Amigos as upper classmen. Buzz runs from the new BE because he can't be competitive in a crap league, according to him, and leaves three meh freshmen, Juan Anderson, and Derrick Wilson for the new coach.
Yeah, way easier!
For someone who pretends to be smarter than everyone else...yikes!
Buzz had a great roster his first year, to compete in the toughest league in the country, without question. Thereafter? What was left in that cupboard from Crean? Believe we made the NCAA in Year 2 of Buzz regime as well. Has new Big East ever rated as the toughest league since Wojo arrived?
You and the other handful of Wojo worshippers are more than welcome to continue to think he walked into a crap situation. He made it a crap situation with his decision-making. 4 Years later and we still await our first NCAA tourney victory. Year 5 appears to be the charm. It's been a long time coming.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 02, 2018, 05:50:43 PM
Buzz comes into prime BE with Lazar and the 3 Amigos as upper classmen. Buzz runs from the new BE because he can't be competitive in a crap league, according to him, and leaves three meh freshmen, Juan Anderson, and Derrick Wilson for the new coach.
Yeah, way easier!
For someone who pretends to be smarter than everyone else...yikes!
Absolutely correct, Wojo situation was much more difficult. Despite what Buzz says, his leaving was not entirely his own decision.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 02, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Buzz had a great roster his first year, to compete in the toughest league in the country, without question. Thereafter? What was left in that cupboard from Crean? Believe we made the NCAA in Year 2 of Buzz regime as well. Has new Big East ever rated as the toughest league since Wojo arrived?
You and the other handful of Wojo worshippers are more than welcome to continue to think he walked into a crap situation. He made it a crap situation with his decision-making. 4 Years later and we still await our first NCAA tourney victory. Year 5 appears to be the charm. It's been a long time coming.
3 all time great seniors in Matthews, McNeal, and James. An all time great junior in Hayward. 2 really solid guards in Acker and Cubillan. Compare that to being left with underclassmen Duane Wilson, JaJuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Sandy Cohen, John Dawson, and Luke Fischer and upper classmen Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson. Hysterical to look at that difference.
Buzz was already recruiting for the program that he took over, which to any person with an iota of rational thought is a huge, huge difference from someone who was an assistant at a different program that was recruiting entirely different players than the program that the coach then took over. Buzz was already building relationships/recruiting Fulce and Butler to Marquette and was able to bring them along. Wojo was obviously not going to be bringing Jhalil Okafor along with him to Marquette.
Buzz had 4 NBA players on his team first 2 teams, all upper classmen, 2 of them very, very good NBA players. Wojo inherited/brought from Duke 1 NBA player who will see almost no time in the actual NBA and who transferred out after his mother passed away. Otherwise none of the players Wojo was handed to him will even come close to sniffing the NBA. It's absolutely hysterical that you think you can compare the two and reasonably think what Wojo inherited was even remotely close to what Buzz inherited. It'd be like saying someone born with no limbs was born with an equal chance of playing in the NBA as LeBron James's kids had when they were first born.
Buzz himself claimed he couldn't recruit to the new Big East. So Buzz himself admits that his situation when he was taking over was much easier to recruit to. Both had the Al. Both had the BC. Buzz didn't believe he could recruit to the situation Wojo was walking into in the same way he could recruit when he got the job. Don't let me tell you. Buzz told you himself.
In year 6 Buzz was missing all postseason play because of his own decisions. I'll put money on Wojo not missing all postseason play come year 6 at MU.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 02, 2018, 07:57:02 PM
Buzz had a great roster his first year, to compete in the toughest league in the country, without question. Thereafter? What was left in that cupboard from Crean? Believe we made the NCAA in Year 2 of Buzz regime as well. Has new Big East ever rated as the toughest league since Wojo arrived?
You and the other handful of Wojo worshippers are more than welcome to continue to think he walked into a crap situation. He made it a crap situation with his decision-making. 4 Years later and we still await our first NCAA tourney victory. Year 5 appears to be the charm. It's been a long time coming.
What decisions are you referring to?
Oh.
My.
Lord.
Why do you guys feed into
Ner's delusional 4th grader mindset?
Quote from: Nukem2 on November 02, 2018, 04:58:25 PM
Buzz had a loaded roster and left Wojo with crumbs.
Buzz was also supposed to lead that team a N as appearance. He did. The next year he also did, and the year after, and again... Etc.
Say what you want about Wojo's bare cupboard, but buzz performed highly.
Historically Wisconsin has been a waste land for talent. Many years with no top 100 kids. Talent has gotten much better, and along With it UWs fortunes. while most Wisconsin kids are inclined to go to the state school Marquette has done pretty well , especially lately.
Well this thread went predictably.
Thought we'd spend more time talking about the Wisconsin comment, which - to JBs point - is just stupid. UW has gotten the better Wisc recruit 2 or 3 times in the past decade (By my count, only sure ones are Dekker and King. The one that can be debated is Duane v Koenig. Though we got Fischer a year later too)
I'm happy with where were rated in that list. About how I'd rank the top 3 programs as well.
Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU. And especially MU over UW.
Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.
That coach is not wrong.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 07:15:47 AM
Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU. And especially MU over UW.
Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.
That coach is not wrong.
Then why don't they actually go there? It's a dumb statement and he's flat out lazily wrong in his assessment. GB Warrior has it about right.
The first part of his statement is pretty accurate. The second half should have said leave the state vs going to WI. So yes he is wrong about the Badger part.
Interesting that the top 3 overall are also the top three in budget and in pros.
Money talks, nobody walks.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 07:15:47 AMThat coach is not wrong.
Go read Sam Newberry's article on Anonymous Eagle. That coach is wrong. Incredibly wrong. Like impressive that he can be so thoroughly wrong. It would be very, very difficult for him to be more wrong if his intent was to make a statement that was explicitly, provably, evidentially unsupported wrong.
He is wrong. It's not even debatable.
Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW. That's the point. They're the default school. They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us.
If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 08:46:44 AM
Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW. That's the point. They're the default school. They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us.
If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.
Then from the time the kid forms in the womb as a 'UW lean' to the time he actually signs his LOI Bucky must be really crap at recruiting. Because if they want him or not, even if he's a freakin' legacy like Wes Matthews, the empirical evidence demonstrates that they almost NEVER get their man. Like NEVER with the exception of Dekker.
It's time once again for the greatest of all time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FH2XWiaosZs
I'm curious if this rule about it not mattering where you want to go to college when you are actually selecting your school applies to non athletes too. I will have to tell my daughter to not worry about her choice in the next few months because it only matters where she wanted to go when she was in 6th grade.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 08:46:44 AM
Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW. That's the point. They're the default school. They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us.
If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.
Appreciate the objectivity. Found it kind of sad that some of our fans got so twisted/offended on the comment by the Big East Assistant coach. Then again, there are some very easily triggered among us.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 08:46:44 AM
Sam Hauser WANTED to go to UW. He didn't bc they didn't recruit him hard enough but he started out wanting to go to UW. That's the point. They're the default school. They may not get every kid or even half the kid but they start out favorable on the kid's radar, that's an advantage over us.
If you don't think UW is the default school in this state, I don't know what to tell you.
Look at the quote again. "
Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette." If all these kids wanted to go to Wisconsin, the majority of them would. In the past 11 years, UW-Madison has landed the top recruit in the state exactly once, and that was because Buzz didn't recruit Sam Dekker.
Do a ton of kids come out of Wisconsin? Maybe so, maybe not. I haven't broken down the numbers based on the number of top-100 recruits compared to state populations. But the kids that do come out of Wisconsin generally choose to either go to Marquette or go out of state. The kids that do grow up dreaming of going to Wisconsin are the ones that walk on. And yes, there are plenty of those kids, but by and large, the "ton of kids in Wisconsin" the quoted individual is referring to are the high-major kids, and those high-major kids by and large are obviously not wanting to go to Wisconsin, or they would be.
When you are talking about elite recruits, I think most of them are actually dreaming of going to neither Wisconsin nor Marquette. They are dreaming of going to Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina, or Kansas. If those options aren't there, they are dreaming of going somewhere that will showcase them for the NBA. That's why a kid like Korie Lucious went to a perennial power in Michigan State over staying in state. That's why Jamil Wilson and Jeronne Maymon committed to higher tempo offensive teams. Matt Thomas, Kevon Looney, Diamond Stone, Terrence Lewis, all opted to go out of state to schools that would showcase them with a faster tempo.
It's entirely possible Hauser could've went to UW-Madison. Same goes for Ellenson. But ultimately, Bo's system and Gard's continuation has impacted their ability to draw in top recruits. They still land quality players and have done a great job developing them, but the vast majority of kids with NBA aspirations (which is probably just about anyone in the top-150) are looking in other directions first.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 02, 2018, 10:38:00 PM
What decisions are you referring to?
Pretty simple:
Awful roster management and decision-making upon taking the job. The results speak for themselves. 4-14 Big East Year 1. Missed NIT Year 2. NCAA tourney 1st round exit Year 3 (with 2 of Buzz's guys playing prominent roles). Year 4. Missed NCAA.
When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores, and have the all-time worst PG at MU as a senior - you don't max his minutes, and bring in a grad transfer. You max the F out of your talented sophomores, and invest into the future of your program.
You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?
Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.
It was almost as bad in Year 2, trying to play Haanif Cheatham at PG, when you had a pure PG on the roster in Traci Carter.
Thankfully Wojo seems to have made some progress in his player personnel management and in-game coaching. His yoga practice seems to be helping him manage his manic, knee-jerk coaching decisions that plagued his first couple of years.
Quote from: jsglow on November 03, 2018, 09:04:59 AM
Then from the time the kid forms in the womb as a 'UW lean' to the time he actually signs his LOI Bucky must be really crap at recruiting. Because if they want him or not, even if he's a freakin' legacy like Wes Matthews, the empirical evidence demonstrates that they almost NEVER get their man. Like NEVER with the exception of Dekker.
To be fair, they get their fair share. For a long time we were recruiting different styles of player and didn't overlap as much. Koenig vs Duane for instance seemed like each coach got the guy they wanted.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 03, 2018, 10:01:54 AM
Look at the quote again. "Not a ton of kids in Wisconsin, and the ones that do come out of there want to go to Wisconsin and not Marquette." If all these kids wanted to go to Wisconsin, the majority of them would. In the past 11 years, UW-Madison has landed the top recruit in the state exactly once, and that was because Buzz didn't recruit Sam Dekker.
Do a ton of kids come out of Wisconsin? Maybe so, maybe not. I haven't broken down the numbers based on the number of top-100 recruits compared to state populations. But the kids that do come out of Wisconsin generally choose to either go to Marquette or go out of state. The kids that do grow up dreaming of going to Wisconsin are the ones that walk on. And yes, there are plenty of those kids, but by and large, the "ton of kids in Wisconsin" the quoted individual is referring to are the high-major kids, and those high-major kids by and large are obviously not wanting to go to Wisconsin, or they would be.
To be fair the ones that leave the state usually have UW 'on the list' in addition to the out of state choices.
It really doesn't seem to be a comment that is that offensive.
I agree completely with Lens. Like it or not, most WI kids grow wanting to play for the Badgers. MU has day be an outstanding job of recruiting against UW over the years.
Quote from: The Lens on November 03, 2018, 07:15:47 AM
Since Barry Alvarez took over and reinvigorated Bucky, very few kids grow up in this state wanting to play for MU. And especially MU over UW.
Sure they can be swayed but that's the first hurdle. We are not many Wisconsin HS kids default team.
That coach is not wrong.
City of Milwaukee kids have zero desire to play for UW. We aren't super high on their lists either, most would dream of playing for duke or Kentucky. Now kids in the middle of nowhere in this state, that's a different story.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
Pretty simple:
Awful roster management and decision-making upon taking the job. The results speak for themselves. 4-14 Big East Year 1. Missed NIT Year 2. NCAA tourney 1st round exit Year 3 (with 2 of Buzz's guys playing prominent roles). Year 4. Missed NCAA.
When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores, and have the all-time worst PG at MU as a senior - you don't max his minutes, and bring in a grad transfer. You max the F out of your talented sophomores, and invest into the future of your program.
You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?
Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.
It was almost as bad in Year 2, trying to play Haanif Cheatham at PG, when you had a pure PG on the roster in Traci Carter.
Thankfully Wojo seems to have made some progress in his player personnel management and in-game coaching. His yoga practice seems to be helping him manage his manic, knee-jerk coaching decisions that plagued his first couple of years.
John Dawson averaged 8.5 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers as a 5th year senior in the Big South Conference. I don't think Wojo should've been playing him 4 years prior to that as a freshman in the BE, no.
Deonte Burton's mother passed away and he transferred to get out of Milwaukee 8 games into his time under Wojo. Wojo never had an opportunity to invest in Deonte's future.
Luke Fischer averaged 30 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?
Duane Wilson averaged 28 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?
JaJuan Johnson averaged 22 MPG and was far superior to senior Juan Anderson. Wojo invested plenty in him.
I do not think starting 5 freshman/sophomores and playing them 40 MPG would've been a good idea for a first year coach. Talk about a way to kill your kids' confidence. Going 0-16 in conference is one nice way to do that.
Traci Carter averaged 24 MPG as a freshman point guard. Wojo was plenty fair in his minutes.
Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to basketball knowledge, you also completely ignore the reality of what actually happened.
Your boy Buzz had all those same players that Wojo had that Wojo "mind effed" with by not playing them...and played the same players that Wojo did. Weird.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 03, 2018, 11:12:56 AM
To be fair the ones that leave the state usually have UW 'on the list' in addition to the out of state choices.
It really doesn't seem to be a comment that is that offensive.
They have them "on the list", but that doesn't mean they have any real interest in going to UW-Madison. Gotta keep up appearances.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 03, 2018, 12:03:45 PM
They have them "on the list", but that doesn't mean they have any real interest in going to UW-Madison. Gotta keep up appearances.
I agree - but that is also my point. If the top recruits do this it feeds the perception....
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on November 03, 2018, 12:18:48 PM
I agree - but that is also my point. If the top recruits do this it feeds the perception....
That's fair, but it only reinforces that these kids don't have a desire to go there, especially when you compare the actual results as the AE article did.
The idea that kids want to go to UW only reinforces that it's a state school and the first team they'll be introduced to.
Impossible to prove that kids want to go there during their recruiting years (you gonna guess what's in a kids head?), because we sure don't see it from the results once they're educated
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?
Yes
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores....Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.
This is the best part right here. Uses the fact that players were top 100 recruits as the only proof that they were great players.....and then complains about two top 100 recruits getting playing time
Quote from: brewnewsman on November 02, 2018, 03:50:24 PM
MU #3 behind Georgetown and Villanova.
3. Marquette (59) – No one in the league has more resources, and just about every coach has had success – although different levels. Al McGuire led Marquette to its lone national championship way back in 1977, Kevin O'Neill took the program to the Sweet 16 in 1994, Tom Crean went to the Final Four in 2003, Buzz Williams went to an Elite Eight and a pair of Sweet 16's in his final three seasons. The only real downside is its recruiting base.
Coach Williams did not go to a tournament in his final season, so that comment is wrong, too.
Quote from: wadesworld on November 03, 2018, 11:42:34 AM
John Dawson averaged 8.5 points, 4 rebounds, 3 assists, and 3 turnovers as a 5th year senior in the Big South Conference. I don't think Wojo should've been playing him 4 years prior to that as a freshman in the BE, no.
Deonte Burton's mother passed away and he transferred to get out of Milwaukee 8 games into his time under Wojo. Wojo never had an opportunity to invest in Deonte's future.
Luke Fischer averaged 30 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?
Duane Wilson averaged 28 MPG. Maybe Wojo should've gassed him for 40?
JaJuan Johnson averaged 22 MPG and was far superior to senior Juan Anderson. Wojo invested plenty in him.
I do not think starting 5 freshman/sophomores and playing them 40 MPG would've been a good idea for a first year coach. Talk about a way to kill your kids' confidence. Going 0-16 in conference is one nice way to do that.
Traci Carter averaged 24 MPG as a freshman point guard. Wojo was plenty fair in his minutes.
Not only are you completely clueless when it comes to basketball knowledge, you also completely ignore the reality of what actually happened.
Your boy Buzz had all those same players that Wojo had that Wojo "mind effed" with by not playing them...and played the same players that Wojo did. Weird.
Buzz's track record speaks for itself. One year while at MU was not like the other - and there's a reason for that: He wanted out...was checked out. He f'in pulled Deonte Burton against Xavier in Big East tourney when Deonte was tearing up Xavier for the last 6 minutes of the game, only to re-insert him with 30 seconds left.
If you want to hold up Buzz's last year of coaching at MU as proof positive that Wojo made a sound decision in Year 1 on the job, feel free. Sadly, Buzz has already gotten a moribound VaTech program to 2 NCAA tourneys AND a higher preseason ranking than us this year.
Wojo's track record thus far speaks for itself. Mediocre at best. I can appreciate you being a fanboy of Wojo's, just as I was one for Buzz. Nothing wrong with being loyal to your team/coach. You fell hard for Wojo and went all in - perhaps it gets rewarded this year. To act as if the guy hasn't made any mistakes as head coach at MU thus far though, however, is silly.
Where's the Scooper with that dead horse pdf when we need it?
Ners, as one who loved Buzz (as a coach) and now really thinks highly of Wojo, I've just got two words for you:
Seek help.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 03, 2018, 12:52:15 PM
Yes
This is the best part right here. Uses the fact that players were top 100 recruits as the only proof that they were great players.....and then complains about two top 100 recruits getting playing time
Ugh.
Not again. Playing Top 100 FRESHMAN, Cohen (or Top 100 Senior Juan Anderson) in front of/more minutes than Top 50 Sophomore Burton was idiotic.
Nobody with a shred of objectivity would say that Sandy Cohen or Juan Anderson belonged on the court ahead of Deonte Burton. Period. End of story.
Enough of this off-season BS. The 2018-19 season starts in three days. This season. The one where we have higher expectations and more talent than any other in the Wojo era, and people are still arguing about coaching decisions made 4 years ago. Enough already. Everybody drop it, because I've seen this pissing contest enough times to know that nobody is going to win it. Instead of talking about who should or should not have played and how much the did in a past season, discuss the upcoming one.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
Pretty simple:
Awful roster management and decision-making upon taking the job. The results speak for themselves. 4-14 Big East Year 1. Missed NIT Year 2. NCAA tourney 1st round exit Year 3 (with 2 of Buzz's guys playing prominent roles). Year 4. Missed NCAA.
When you inherit 4, Top 100 sophomores, and have the all-time worst PG at MU as a senior - you don't max his minutes, and bring in a grad transfer. You max the F out of your talented sophomores, and invest into the future of your program.
You really think if you played Duane at the 1, Dawson at the 2, JJJ at the 3, Deonte at the 4 and Luke Fischer at the 5, all as sophomores, that team wouldn't have grown to be an NCAA caliber team in Year 2 of the regime with a few new recruits added as back ups?
Instead most of those guys got sit behind guys like Derrick Wilson, Juan Anderson, and Sandy F'in Cohen.
It was almost as bad in Year 2, trying to play Haanif Cheatham at PG, when you had a pure PG on the roster in Traci Carter.
Thankfully Wojo seems to have made some progress in his player personnel management and in-game coaching. His yoga practice seems to be helping him manage his manic, knee-jerk coaching decisions that plagued his first couple of years.
This will be copy pasted by NERS rinse and repeat. Can't wait 'till Tuesday. Does Dawson have any eligibility left??? Dawson > JC !!!
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 02:29:59 PM
Ugh.
Not again. Playing Top 100 FRESHMAN, Cohen (or Top 100 Senior Juan Anderson) in front of/more minutes than Top 50 Sophomore Burton was idiotic.
Nobody with a shred of objectivity would say that Sandy Cohen or Juan Anderson belonged on the court ahead of Deonte Burton. Period. End of story.
Your boy Buzz Williams did. Period. End of story.
You talk like it's a select group of 5 people that think Wojo did anything but criminally miscoach his teams. The reality is that not one but two coaches made the exact same personnel decisions. People paid literally millions of dollars to make those decisions. I'm beyond shocked you can't find a coaching job. I mean, Buzz himself saw your incredible basketball mind when he allowed you to hold campers' hands walking from the Al to the Rec Center at some summer camps! How can he miss that?!
You're literally the only single person in the world who thinks Wojo was left with a better situation than what Buzz walked into. It's absolutely hysterical and it's why people can cry about not responding to you but this is waaaay too entertaining. The fact that anyone can even claim that is absolutely awesome. And then play it off like only "Wojo homers" can think differently...yikes!
Back on topic. These lists always seem to be the same thing. 'Nova and Georgetown at the top, then whoever the hot teams are next in line. Marquette and St. John's are the trendy picks? Put them in the top-5. Xavier just got a 1-seed? Them too.
Also, the idea that Xavier is 7th in recruiting base is ridiculous. While they do have tough competition from Ohio State and Cincy for in-state recruits, Ohio is a talent hotbed, while border states like Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are all great places to go get talent. And Butler is 9th in recruiting base? Again, tough competition with IU, Purdue, and Notre Dame, but Indiana probably has one of the best pools of talent both in terms of producing top players and producing deep classes in the country, while their state is also bordered by Kentucky, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois.
And what does "buy games" refer to? When is the last time any Big East team was a buy game for another opponent? I mean...great for us to be #1 in the category, but is this to mean that Villanova is somehow the Grambling of high-major hoops?
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 02:29:59 PM
Ugh.
Not again. Playing Top 100 FRESHMAN, Cohen (or Top 100 Senior Juan Anderson) in front of/more minutes than Top 50 Sophomore Burton was idiotic.
Nobody with a shred of objectivity would say that Sandy Cohen or Juan Anderson belonged on the court ahead of Deonte Burton. Period. End of story.
If you want to compare actual talent, fine. But don't use "top 100 recruit in high school" as evidence of how good a player is when we have actual on the court evidence. Because by that reasoning, you would have wanted Cohen and Anderson (and Teve) out there too!
Once again (in case you missed the last few posts explaining this) Sandy Cohen got more minutes than Deonte in all of two games....one of which Deonte racked up 4 fouls in 12 minutes so Wojo had no choice but to play Sandy more minutes. So really in one game Sandy got 3 more minutes than Deonte. Otherwise Deonte destroyed him in minutes played. Was it that three minutes that convinced you that Wojo was a bad coach?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 03, 2018, 03:16:15 PM
Back on topic. These lists always seem to be the same thing. 'Nova and Georgetown at the top, then whoever the hot teams are next in line. Marquette and St. John's are the trendy picks? Put them in the top-5. Xavier just got a 1-seed? Them too.
Also, the idea that Xavier is 7th in recruiting base is ridiculous. While they do have tough competition from Ohio State and Cincy for in-state recruits, Ohio is a talent hotbed, while border states like Indiana, Kentucky, Pennsylvania, and Michigan are all great places to go get talent. And Butler is 9th in recruiting base? Again, tough competition with IU, Purdue, and Notre Dame, but Indiana probably has one of the best pools of talent both in terms of producing top players and producing deep classes in the country, while their state is also bordered by Kentucky, Ohio, Michigan, and Illinois.
And what does "buy games" refer to? When is the last time any Big East team was a buy game for another opponent? I mean...great for us to be #1 in the category, but is this to mean that Villanova is somehow the Grambling of high-major hoops?
This was a very esoteric Poll which purports to rank the attractiveness of head coaching jobs in the Big East from the perspective of a head coach. I think some of the categories such as buy games are confusing. For example, it may be attractive from a coach perspective to have a lot of ability to control your own destiny with buy games and have the money to do so. So this poll rates Villanova last because of their preexisting Big 5 commitments. However, from the standpoint of a fan those Big 5 games are very attractive. Also how they determine the recruiting base rankings are interesting. Your points on the recruiting base are accurate as well , both Butler and Xavier are in the center of a number of very attractive recruiting markets and over time they have both proven that is an asset. I guess from the coach perspective they have to work harder because the schools are not the number one choice in their markets. But that is pretty much the case for almost all the schools in America that are not blue bloods or near blue bloods.
Quote from: Floorslapper on November 03, 2018, 02:29:59 PM
Ugh.
Not again. Playing Top 100 FRESHMAN, Cohen (or Top 100 Senior Juan Anderson) in front of/more minutes than Top 50 Sophomore Burton was idiotic.
Nobody with a shred of objectivity would say that Sandy Cohen or Juan Anderson belonged on the court ahead of Deonte Burton. Period. End of story.
Ugh. Just drop it. TAMU has owned your a$$ multiple times with this sh*t, yet you keep coming back to be owned again.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on November 03, 2018, 05:24:13 PM
If you want to compare actual talent, fine. But don't use "top 100 recruit in high school" as evidence of how good a player is when we have actual on the court evidence. Because by that reasoning, you would have wanted Cohen and Anderson (and Teve) out there too!
Once again (in case you missed the last few posts explaining this) Sandy Cohen got more minutes than Deonte in all of two games....one of which Deonte racked up 4 fouls in 12 minutes so Wojo had no choice but to play Sandy more minutes. So really in one game Sandy got 3 more minutes than Deonte. Otherwise Deonte destroyed him in minutes played. Was it that three minutes that convinced you that Wojo was a bad coach?
The fact the floormat brings up Dawson is hilarious. Solid D-2 Player.
Did I miss Buzz coming back to the BE and ranking the conference jobs? So why the heck are we talking about him!!??!!
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/541/000/6ed.gif)
Kudos to Herman for getting it back on track.
Irrelevant detours aside, what's most interesting to me is getting some insight from coaches on what sets a program apart.
One key takeaway is the emphasis on tradition. Georgetown took the top spot in this poll largely based on what it accomplished 30 years ago. One comment ("Villanova just has a culture now, but so much of it has been based on Jay Wright") seems to downplay Rollie Massimino's 1985 national title. Couldn't you also say that so much of what Georgetown has done was based on John Thompson? But the difference between Georgetown and Villanova at 1 and 2 is splitting hairs.
Given that, Marquette being ranked higher than all the other Big East programs is quite the compliment. We know DePaul just doesn't care. But if I were the AD at Butler, Seton Hall or St. John's, I'd be concerned about the perception those schools are near the bottom of the league in budget/resources (coaches' salaries, recruiting budget, travel budget) and facilities (arena, practice facilities). Factors such as history and geographical recruiting base are out of an AD's control. But if you're not investing in the program, your job's going to be a lot harder.
After recruiting base, MU's worst rating is for game atmosphere (5th after Creighton, Xavier, Butler and Villanova). Hopefully the new arena and a winning team can move us up at least a couple spots.
One more thought on geographical recruiting base. Beyond Wisconsin, Wojo and his staff have focused on the wider Midwest: Sacar and Theo from Minneapolis; Ed Morrow originally from Chicago; Greg, Ike and Jamal from Detroit. If that trend continues -- and if MU can tap into the rich basketball talent of Indiana and Ohio to the southeast -- it could turn a negative into a positive.
Quote from: Marcus92 on November 05, 2018, 10:27:28 AM
Irrelevant detours aside, what's most interesting to me is getting some insight from coaches on what sets a program apart.
One key takeaway is the emphasis on tradition. Georgetown took the top spot in this poll largely based on what it accomplished 30 years ago. One comment ("Villanova just has a culture now, but so much of it has been based on Jay Wright") seems to downplay Rollie Massimino's 1985 national title. Couldn't you also say that so much of what Georgetown has done was based on John Thompson? But the difference between Georgetown and Villanova at 1 and 2 is splitting hairs.
Given that, Marquette being ranked higher than all the other Big East programs is quite the compliment. We know DePaul just doesn't care. But if I were the AD at Butler, Seton Hall or St. John's, I'd be concerned about the perception those schools are near the bottom of the league in budget/resources (coaches' salaries, recruiting budget, travel budget) and facilities (arena, practice facilities). Factors such as history and geographical recruiting base are out of an AD's control. But if you're not investing in the program, your job's going to be a lot harder.
After recruiting base, MU's worst rating is for game atmosphere (5th after Creighton, Xavier, Butler and Villanova). Hopefully the new arena and a winning team can move us up at least a couple spots.
I think some of this coach opinion is a function of relative stature for recruiting. Even though Georgetown has been down, the Georgetown name still carries weight with those that influence the recruiting process. Also on the whole the Thompson family has been a plus. The university had the sense to see the wheels were coming off the wagon with JTIII and moved quickly to protect the franchise.
I think the Coaches are not yet seeing the permanent fruits of Jay Wrights efforts yet and still attribute much of the recent success to his individual excellence. However, Villanova has significantly increased endowment and is making big investments across the board. As the administration begins to understand the linkage between elite basketball performance and endowment this should enable the school to put more resources behind the program and allow it to build off the recent achievements in a sustainable way.
I would make the case that MU has done a very good job of building off of the legacy of Al. Moreover , the approach was consistently applied over a long period of time. MU is a very attractive job with all the resources necessary to compete. To Wojo's credit, he has done a very good job of embracing the MU history and that effort continues to perpetuate the franchise value.