https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/blue-ribbon-college-basketball-yearbook-releases-preseason-top-25 (https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/blue-ribbon-college-basketball-yearbook-releases-preseason-top-25)
Another Top 25, another single Big East team in it and in this case, Nova pretty low at #21. Anyone concerned the Big East losing some cachet? I suppose if it was a top 35 list, MU, Prov and maybe Butler would be there.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 07:22:06 PM
Anyone concerned the Big East losing some cachet?
(https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/blue-ribbon-college-basketball-yearbook-releases-preseason-top-25)
Not here—preseason polls don't seem like something to be concerned about.
Who cares about preseason polls or rankings?
You play the season and see what happens.
Big East had tons of turnover ........not surprising that some magazines don't think the conference will be as strong.
My guess is Pomeroy will have us in the 20-30 range to start but if they don't no big deal.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 07:22:06 PM
https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/blue-ribbon-college-basketball-yearbook-releases-preseason-top-25 (https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/blue-ribbon-college-basketball-yearbook-releases-preseason-top-25)
Another Top 25, another single Big East team in it and in this case, Nova pretty low at #21. Anyone concerned the Big East losing some cachet?
This will be a down year for the Big East. Every conference has them. Unless a trend develops I'm not too worried. But a tad concerned? Yes.
The stars are aligning perfectly for this MU team. Talented and experienced team, in the weakest version of the Big East since we've joined.
Quote from: MuMark on September 20, 2018, 07:38:15 PM
Who cares about preseason polls or rankings?
You play the season and see what happens.
Big East had tons of turnover ........not surprising that some magazines don't think the conference will be as strong.
My guess is Pomeroy will have us in the 20-30 range to start but if they don't no big deal.
Prob 32
IMO if you are a 'power' league you should have at least 3 teams ranked at all times with one in the top 10. I am worried this is looking a little A-10ish.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 07:53:40 PM
IMO if you are a 'power' league you should have at least 3 teams ranked at all times with one in the top 10. I am worried this is looking a little A-10ish.
Random criteria - bizarre
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 20, 2018, 07:55:30 PM
Random criteria - bizarre
Not random at all-'power' conferences typically have at least 3+ teams ranked all season long. The Big East has the same number of ranked teams now as the Mountain West-not good. Haven't checked but when's the last time the Big East had zero teams in the top 25? I'm just saying I don't like how this appears to be headed.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Not random at all-'power' conferences typically have at least 3+ teams ranked all season long. The Big East has the same number of ranked teams now as the Mountain West-not good. Haven't checked but when's the last time the Big East had zero teams in the top 25? I'm just saying I don't like how this appears to be headed.
Random. Show your analysis or kindly shhhh...
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 08:07:40 PM
Not random at all-'power' conferences typically have at least 3+ teams ranked all season long. The Big East has the same number of ranked teams now as the Mountain West-not good. Haven't checked but when's the last time the Big East had zero teams in the top 25? I'm just saying I don't like how this appears to be headed.
It's September...
Two national championships in 3 years. Two number one seeds last season. If you are truly concerned because one preseason poll didn't have enough Big East teams, you have a pretty good life.
This should make you feel better.......at least until the games start
2 in top 25. 6 in top 51. All 10 in top 100
http://www.barttorvik.com/
http://www.barttorvik.com/conf.php?conf=BE&year=2019
I think we'll have that 3 by the end of the year, which is more important than the start of the year.
Quote from: MuMark on September 20, 2018, 08:20:37 PM
This should make you feel better.......at least until the games start
2 in top 25. 6 in top 51. All 10 in top 100
http://www.barttorvik.com/
http://www.barttorvik.com/conf.php?conf=BE&year=2019
Seton Hall & Xavier ahead of us is truly mind blowing to me, so is St. John's at #8 that's way too low. Leads me to question the site's entire methodology
Quote from: Jay Bee on September 20, 2018, 08:08:43 PM
Random. Show your analysis or kindly shhhh...
OK
Some Research
Final Coaches Polls
Top 25 From Each Conference
2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019(Blue Ribbon)SEC 3 2 2 3 4 6
ACC 5 7 6 5 5 7
BIG10 3 2 6 3 4 3
PAC10 3 3 3 3 0 2
BIG12 3 5 5 4 4 4
BE 2 3 2 3 2 1
AAC 2 2 3
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 20, 2018, 09:14:21 PM
Seton Hall & Xavier ahead of us is truly mind blowing to me, so is St. John's at #8 that's way too low. Leads me to question the site's entire methodology
All preseason rankings are flawed......including coaches polls and media polls. Which is why nobody should concern themselves with them
T-Rank is probably the 2nd best computer site after Pomeroy and in most cases their numbers are very similar(especially at the top)when the season is complete.
T-Rank had us 12 spots higher then Pomeroy at seasons end last year. Fwiw
Here is Blue Ribbons preseason Top 25 from last season
https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/arizona-tops-blue-ribbons-37th-annual-preseason-rankings
I count 6 non tournament teams that they thought were going to be really good before the season.
Ps Nova was 12......Xavier not in top 20.
Somehow they managed to be 1 seeds anyway.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 09:34:47 PM
OK
Some Research
Final Coaches Polls
Top 25 From Each Conference
2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019(Blue Ribbon)
SEC 3 2 2 3 4 6
ACC 5 7 6 5 5 7
BIG10 3 2 6 3 4 3
PAC10 3 3 3 3 0 2
BIG12 3 5 5 4 4 4
BE 2 3 2 3 2 1
AAC 2 2 3
Why are you using the final Coaches' poll of the season and comparing to Blue Ribbon Yearbook's preseason rankings?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 20, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
Why are you using the final Coaches' poll of the season and comparing to Blue Ribbon Yearbook's preseason rankings?
My reaction precisely. Silliness.
Quote from: MuMark on September 20, 2018, 09:55:03 PM
Here is Blue Ribbons preseason Top 25 from last season
https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/arizona-tops-blue-ribbons-37th-annual-preseason-rankings
I count 6 non tournament teams that they thought were going to be really good before the season.
Ps Nova was 12......Xavier not in top 20.
Somehow they managed to be 1 seeds anyway.
This.
Also the Big East has 10 teams. ACC with 16, B1G and SEC with 14 so you're not even comparing apples to apples.
Nm
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 09:34:47 PM
OK
Some Research
Final Coaches Polls
Top 25 From Each Conference
2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019(Blue Ribbon)
SEC 3 2 2 3 4 6
ACC 5 7 6 5 5 7
BIG10 3 2 6 3 4 3
PAC10 3 3 3 3 0 2
BIG12 3 5 5 4 4 4
BE 2 3 2 3 2 1
AAC 2 2 3
Why is a conference with 10 teams held to the same criteria as those with 16
Quote from: #UnleashTravis on September 21, 2018, 06:12:40 AM
Why is a conference with 10 teams held to the same criteria as those with 16
I agree with that but the Big 12 still strong.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 20, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
Why are you using the final Coaches' poll of the season and comparing to Blue Ribbon Yearbook's preseason rankings?
Well the coaches poll not out yet. If you recall the thread started with the Blue Ribbon Yearbook's top 25 so used that.
Quote from: MuMark on September 20, 2018, 09:55:03 PM
Here is Blue Ribbons preseason Top 25 from last season
https://blueribbonyearbook.com/blogs/news/arizona-tops-blue-ribbons-37th-annual-preseason-rankings
I count 6 non tournament teams that they thought were going to be really good before the season.
Ps Nova was 12......Xavier not in top 20.
Somehow they managed to be 1 seeds anyway.
Like those results. Blue Ribbon biased against Big East perhaps?
Quote from: geps on September 21, 2018, 06:45:12 AM
Well the coaches poll not out yet. If you recall the thread started with the Blue Ribbon Yearbook's top 25 so used that.
Funny thing is you refute your own logic.
You say a power conference should have at least 3 teams in the top 25, yet in all the years you post the Big East only had 3 on two occasions. Despite this pundits, commentators, computer rankings, etc over the last number of years have had the BE near or as the strongest conference. Hmm
Quote from: geps on September 21, 2018, 06:45:12 AM
Well the coaches poll not out yet. If you recall the thread started with the Blue Ribbon Yearbook's top 25 so used that.
My question is why wouldn't you compare it to previous Blue Ribbon preseason top 25s? Blue Ribbon measures what it believes to be the top 25 basketball teams before a season starts. End of season coaches' polls are based on how the season actually played out. Meaning that if 8 of the best teams that season were in the ACC, likely only 4 of them are going to be in the top 25 because they beat up on each other. It's an apples to avocados comparison. Also, the AP poll is generally considered more accurate than the coaches poll.
Cmon. Are we still so insecure about the Big East? It is by every meaningful metric, one of the top six leagues in the country.
Quote from: MuMark on September 20, 2018, 09:44:49 PM
All preseason rankings are flawed......including coaches polls and media polls. Which is why nobody should concern themselves with them
T-Rank is probably the 2nd best computer site after Pomeroy and in most cases their numbers are very similar(especially at the top)when the season is complete.
T-Rank had us 12 spots higher then Pomeroy at seasons end last year. Fwiw
Didn't mean to disparage the site as a whole, I like it for what it is. I meant the pre-season prediction methodology is called into question with results like that.
Also LSU at #70 while Georgia's at #61? Bizarre.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on September 21, 2018, 12:06:28 AMAlso the Big East has 10 teams. ACC with 16, B1G and SEC with 14 so you're not even comparing apples to apples.
Ding ding ding!!! I pay more attention to conference strength ratings than the number of teams in the Top 25. KenPom.com has ranked the Big East among the top 5 college basketball conferences every year since the realignment:
2013-14
5th2014-15
2nd2015-16
3rd2016-17
3rd2017-18
3rdThis might be somewhat of a down year. But I expect we'll still be solidly in the top 4 or 5. That's a far cry from the Atlantic 10 -- which was ranked 8th, 7th, 8th, 8th and 10th during the same 5-year period.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 21, 2018, 11:12:03 AM
Didn't mean to disparage the site as a whole, I like it for what it is. I meant the pre-season prediction methodology is called into question with results like that.
Also LSU at #70 while Georgia's at #61? Bizarre.
Bart Torvik does a good job overall but like many other systems, it's metrics can spit out some very random isolated results some times. It's kind of like BPI saying Marquette is #4 or Wisconsin always finishing higher than expected in KenPom. Bart Torvik also often has accuracy issues with players. For example, on the LSU projection you mentioned, they are missing Top 100 freshman Darius Days and top 20 JUCO Dayna Kingsby. Now that's not enough to justify having them at #70 but explains part of it.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 21, 2018, 11:46:26 AM
Bart Torvik does a good job overall but like many other systems, it's metrics can spit out some very random isolated results some times. It's kind of like BPI saying Marquette is #4 or Wisconsin always finishing higher than expected in KenPom. Bart Torvik also often has accuracy issues with players. For example, on the LSU projection you mentioned, they are missing Top 100 freshman Darius Days and top 20 JUCO Dayna Kingsby. Now that's not enough to justify having them at #70 but explains part of it.
Worth tweeting those misses at Bart. He's responsive and generally gets them fixed pretty quick.
Quote from: Marcus92 on September 21, 2018, 11:30:46 AM
Ding ding ding!!! I pay more attention to conference strength ratings than the number of teams in the Top 25. KenPom.com has ranked the Big East among the top 5 college basketball conferences every year since the realignment:
2013-14 5th
2014-15 2nd
2015-16 3rd
2016-17 3rd
2017-18 3rd
This might be somewhat of a down year. But I expect we'll still be solidly in the top 4 or 5. That's a far cry from the Atlantic 10 -- which was ranked 8th, 7th, 8th, 8th and 10th during the same 5-year period.
Agreed, here's how I'd rank them pre-season this year
1: SEC
2 (tie): ACC/B12
4: B10
(modest drop)
5: BE
(bigger drop)
6: P12
(much bigger drop)
7: MWC (only because of Nevada & San Diego St.)
8: American
9: WCC (only because of Gonzaga)
Vaguely 10-14: A10/MVC/MAC/Ivy/CUSA
So: in a down year, the Big East is likely to finish #5 with a wide gap between it and another power conference, a gaping chasm between it and any mid-major, and the grand canyon between it and the A10.
Put another way, the A10's best team (Dayton?), would be bottom half in this year's BEast, and their 2nd best team (SLU? VCU?) would be fighting DePaul to stay out of the basement.
We are nowhere near the A10. Kvetching over.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 21, 2018, 11:46:26 AM
Bart Torvik does a good job overall but like many other systems, it's metrics can spit out some very random isolated results some times. It's kind of like BPI saying Marquette is #4 or Wisconsin always finishing higher than expected in KenPom. Bart Torvik also often has accuracy issues with players. For example, on the LSU projection you mentioned, they are missing Top 100 freshman Darius Days and top 20 JUCO Dayna Kingsby. Now that's not enough to justify having them at #70 but explains part of it.
Good point, didn't think about likely personnel misses this early
Quote from: #bansultan on September 21, 2018, 09:30:01 AM
Cmon. Are we still so insecure about the Big East? It is by every meaningful metric, one of the top six leagues in the country.
Given that I had never even heard of the Blue Ribbon Yearbook until I opened this thread, I certainly am not worried about what they think.
Otherwise, agree totally. Our conference earns its respect on the court year after year. And Marquette will be at the top of it this season, my friend!
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on September 21, 2018, 12:47:03 PM
Good point, didn't think about likely personnel misses this early
Torvik missed the starting PG for Presbyterian, which is part of why I'm bullish on them. He also missed a few for Bethune Cookman, which TAMU caught.
Quote from: geps on September 20, 2018, 09:34:47 PM
OK
Some Research
Final Coaches Polls
Top 25 From Each Conference
2014 2015 2016 2017 2018 2019(Blue Ribbon)
SEC 3 2 2 3 4 6
ACC 5 7 6 5 5 7
BIG10 3 2 6 3 4 3
PAC10 3 3 3 3 0 2
BIG12 3 5 5 4 4 4
BE 2 3 2 3 2 1
AAC 2 2 3
Are you really suggesting the Big East wasn't one of the top 3 conferences in at least 2 of the last 3 years when every ranking system to man kind said it was?
Quote from: MU82 on September 21, 2018, 01:24:41 PM
Given that I had never even heard of the Blue Ribbon Yearbook until I opened this thread, I certainly am not worried about what they think.
Otherwise, agree totally. Our conference earns its respect on the court year after year. And Marquette will be at the top of it this season, my friend!
...and when the team can prove to me they can play defense I will agree with this assessment.
Quote from: WarriorDad on September 21, 2018, 09:27:30 PM
Are you really suggesting the Big East wasn't one of the top 3 conferences in at least 2 of the last 3 years when every ranking system to man kind said it was?
No I am not, I am worried about trajectory. Hopefully the worry is unfounded but also not sure the BE getting the recruits it was getting even three years ago. When only 1 team is ranked in the preseason I think recruits take notice. Believe me I am not a BE hater, just worrier.
Quote from: geps on September 22, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
No I am not, I am worried about trajectory. Hopefully the worry is unfounded but also not sure the BE getting the recruits it was getting even three years ago. When only 1 team is ranked in the preseason I think recruits take notice. Believe me I am not a BE hater, just worrier.
I don't think they pay much attention to pre-season rankings.
Quote from: geps on September 22, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
No I am not, I am worried about trajectory. Hopefully the worry is unfounded but also not sure the BE getting the recruits it was getting even three years ago. When only 1 team is ranked in the preseason I think recruits take notice. Believe me I am not a BE hater, just worrier.
If you are worried about trajectory, you don't have to be. While many teams took a step back this season because of abnormally high graduations, most of the Big East is taking a step forward next season because of abnormally low graduations.
Quote from: geps on September 22, 2018, 08:07:03 AM
No I am not, I am worried about trajectory. Hopefully the worry is unfounded but also not sure the BE getting the recruits it was getting even three years ago. When only 1 team is ranked in the preseason I think recruits take notice. Believe me I am not a BE hater, just worrier.
:o
First Recruiting trends have stayed level:
Via 247 composite (keep in mind this list does not include grad and traditional transfers of which the conference has been cleaning up in)
2019: (in progress)
1 five stars
9 four stars
2018:
1 five star
12 four stars
2017:
0 five stars
12 four stars
2016:
1 five star
13 four stars
2015:
2 five stars
11 four stars
2014:
1 five star
19 four stars
2013:
0 five star
11 four stars
Second Conference rating via Real Time RPI:
2017-18
1 Big 12
2 Big East
3 Atlantic Coast
4 Southeastern
5 Pacific-12
6 Big Ten
2016-17
1 ACC
2 B12
3 BE
4 B10
5 SEC
6 P12
2015-16
1 B12
2 P12
3 ACC
4 BE
5 B10
6 SEC
2014-15
1 B12
2 BE
3 ACC
4 B10
5 P12
6 SEC
2013-14
1 B12
2 B10
3 P12
4 BE
5 ACC
6 A10
Third point is less of a comparison but general observation. As a conference we're coming off of a year where we had two no1 seeds and one of those won the championship so there's little to no reason for panic there.
I guess my point is if these were reports from a business what would inspire lack of confidence moving forward that you wouldn't invest? It seems to me like you're panicking based on a surface observation of what was lost through a very narrow lense and not focusing on what's been brought in. This is one Top 25 that others seem to have pointed out does not respect the BE often so deep breaths, look at the mainstream reports and stop comparing preseason reports to final polls from other companies as anybody in data analytics would tell you that's illogical for the point you were trying to prove
Marquette ranked 25 per NBC
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/09/24/2018-2019-college-basketball-preseason-top-25/
Quote from: milwaukee ex-pat on September 24, 2018, 09:26:13 AM
Marquette ranked 25 per NBC
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/09/24/2018-2019-college-basketball-preseason-top-25/
Wow, that must mean 8 Big East teams in the top-25. ;D
Quote from: milwaukee ex-pat on September 24, 2018, 09:26:13 AM
Marquette ranked 25 per NBC
https://collegebasketball.nbcsports.com/2018/09/24/2018-2019-college-basketball-preseason-top-25/
Seems fine, like all the others. Conversation pieces, nothing more. Nice to be in the conversation!
My favorite line appeared in the Duke preview:
There's a non-zero chance that Barrett, Williamson and Reddish could end up going 1-2-3 in the 2019 NBA Draft.I think he's saying they could be the top 3 NBA draft picks next season. There's a non-zero chance that he wasn't unsharp enough to not not say that.
Quote from: brewcity77 on September 24, 2018, 09:39:31 AM
Wow, that must mean 8 Big East teams in the top-25. ;D
Amazing what happens when you don't have a Vadger grad write the article
Quote from: MU82 on September 21, 2018, 01:24:41 PM
... Our conference earns its respect on the court year after year. ...
This is the key thought. Our conferences non-conference schedule needs to be significant. We need to schedule teams in the other top conferences and beat them. And not the pansies (like the MAC football teams seem to always schedule the three weakest BIG teams every year).
I think the BE will show up every time and have a decent record...the worst thing we could do is avoid the better teams from the better conferences.
I really like that we play some significant teams this year....I know we have the sub-300 weaklings but our better games are the real deal. MU can make a statement for the BE.