The single season points record for Marquette. Rowsey is at 687 while Howard is at 673. Do you feel it will be broken this year? Also what is the best scoring combo in MU history? These two? Or McNeal/Matthews senior year? Who from the McGuire era?
Rowsey will break it. Howard probably needs two more games.
Quote from: lawdog77 on March 19, 2018, 09:14:43 AM
Also what is the best scoring combo in MU history? These two? Or McNeal/Matthews senior year?
Wade/Diener?
Single Season Points
1. 710 Dwyane Wade 2002‐03
2. 693 Jerel McNeal 2008‐09
3. 689 Tony Smith 1989‐90
4. 687 Andrew Rowsey 2017-18
5. 673 Markus Howard 2017-18
6. 664 George Thompson 1967‐68
7. 640 Wesley Matthews 2008‐09
8. 628 Butch Lee 1976‐77
9. 623 Darius Johnson‐Odom 2011‐12
10. 616 Lazar Hayward 2009‐10
10. 616 Dean Meminger 1970‐71
11. 614 Jae Crowder 2011‐12
Three Pointers Made
1. 121 Steve Novak 2005‐06
2. 119 Andrew Rowsey 2017-18
3. 109 Markus Howard 2017-18
4. 92 Sam Hauser 2017-18
5. 90 Travis Diener 2003‐04
6. 89 Steve Novak 2004‐05
6. 89 Steve Novak 2003‐04
7. 86 Jerel McNeal 2008‐09
8. 83 Matt Carlino 2014‐15
9. 82 Markus Howard 2016‐17
10. 77 Darius Johnson‐Odom 2011‐12
11. 75 Robb Logterman 1993‐94
12. 73 Darius Johnson‐Odom 2009‐10
12. 73 Anthony Pieper 1994‐95
Sam has 92 makes this year as well.
Quote from: MUfan12 on March 19, 2018, 01:02:39 PM
Sam has 92 makes this year as well.
Good catch. I updated the list.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 19, 2018, 12:48:42 PM
Wade/Diener?
Meh. Diener didn't really score a ton of points until after Wade left. 03-04, and 04-05 were his biggest years points wise. He averaged 7.9 as a freshman and 11.8 as a sophomore.
What about this...MH needs 690 next year to tie GT's 3 year all-time scoring record. What a great potential accomplishment.
GT - 523 | 664 | 586 = 1773
MH - 410 | 673 (+ remaining) - 1773 = 690
Quote from: Coleman on March 19, 2018, 01:18:05 PM
Meh. Diener didn't really score a ton of points until after Wade left. 04-05 was his biggest year points wise.
You're right. Looked up the 2002-03 stats. Wade and Jackson actually put up 1,219 points, but even they are still 114 short of Wes and Jerel's 1,333 points.
So yeah, Rowsey and Howard are statistically the best scoring duo in Marquette history. 1,360 points and counting. You could probably make arguments for the guys before the three point line since that's where 684 of Rowsey and Howard's points came from.
I think Tony Smith (23.8) and Trevor Powell (16.7) in 1990 are the only MU teammates to combine for an average of 40+ a game.
Rowsey and Howard are at an even 40.0 this season.
Great scoring records unfortunately their inability to keep the other team from scoring resulted in an NIT appearance
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 19, 2018, 02:01:47 PM
Great scoring records unfortunately their inability to keep the other team from scoring resulted in an NIT appearance
(http://media.giphy.com/media/11fpbdcbnBd5tu/source.gif)
710 Ashbury, Nod to Jer
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 19, 2018, 02:01:47 PM
Great scoring records unfortunately their inability to keep the other team from scoring resulted in an NIT appearance
Not their fault. The defensive scheme chosen for this team was the wrong one from the outset. I feel it raises a red flag about the coaching job that was done this year, when the highest scoring duo in the illustrious history of our basketball program, missed the NCAA.
And, this doesn't even take into consideration that Sam Hauser turned in one of the top 3 Value Add seasons this century, after D-Wade and Rowsey. Yep. Rowsey and Sam's Value Add were better than any of Jae, Jimmy, Wes, Jerel, Travis, DJO, Lazar.
To the positive, Wojo recruited all of Sam, Markus, and Rowsey - landed the talent - but seemingly failed to deliver on the results that such elite performance should have led to. (Maybe 1 NCAA tourney win?)
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
I feel it raises a red flag about the coaching job that was done this year, when the highest scoring duo in the illustrious history of our basketball program, missed the NCAA.
Well, if
oldwarrior81 is right, perhaps you should bring that up with Kevin O'Neill. But we all know he couldn't coach defense.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 19, 2018, 02:44:25 PM
Well, if oldwarrior81 is right, perhaps you should bring that up with Kevin O'Neill. But we all know he couldn't coach defense.
Was there a 3rd gun (of Hauser's quality) on the team's with Tony Smith and Trevor Powell? Was that K.O.'s very first year as a head coach? As I'm sure you are aware, we are still being given the Wojo is a young coach, in his first head coaching job, rationale, now 4-years into his leadership to justify performance. Pretty sure K.O. had us in NCAA in Year 4 as well?
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 02:57:44 PM
Was there a 3rd gun (of Hauser's quality) on the team's with Tony Smith and Trevor Powell? Was that K.O.'s very first year as a head coach? As I'm sure you are aware, we are still being given the Wojo is a young coach, in his first head coaching job, rationale, now 4-years into his leadership to justify performance. Pretty sure K.O. had us in NCAA in Year 4 as well?
My post wasn't a defense of Wojo, so no need to get your hackles up. I was merely pointing out that having a great scoring combo isn't necessarily a ticket to the NCAAs.
1990 team also had Tyrone Baldwin at 12.4 and Mark Anglavar at 8.9.
About the same number of points as Hauser and Anim as 3rd and 4th scorers.
Ironically that 1990 squad lost to Penn State in the NIT.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on March 19, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
1990 team also had Tyrone Baldwin at 12.4 and Mark Anglavar at 8.9.
About the same number of points as Hauser and Anim as 3rd and 4th scorers.
Ironically that 1990 squad lost to Penn State in the NIT.
Went 15-14 including 9-5 in an inferior conference that sent two teams to the NCAA tournament, one of which (Dayton) may not have gotten in without winning the conference tournament.
Quote from: #bansultan on March 19, 2018, 04:17:13 PM
Went 15-14 including 9-5 in an inferior conference that sent two teams to the NCAA tournament, one of which (Dayton) may not have gotten in without winning the conference tournament.
But at least we were the Warriors back then!
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on March 19, 2018, 01:56:47 PM
I think Tony Smith (23.8) and Trevor Powell (16.7) in 1990 are the only MU teammates to combine for an average of 40+ a game.
Rowsey and Howard are at an even 40.0 this season.
Chones and Meminger were at 39+ for a slow down offense.
Quote from: oldwarrior81 on March 19, 2018, 03:59:53 PM
Ironically that 1990 squad lost to Penn State in the NIT.
I would go with more "Ominously" than "Ironically" but I'm a pessimist by nature.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 19, 2018, 02:01:47 PM
Great scoring records unfortunately their inability to keep the other team from scoring resulted in an NIT appearance
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
Not their fault. The defensive scheme chosen for this team was the wrong one from the outset. I feel it raises a red flag about the coaching job that was done this year, when the highest scoring duo in the illustrious history of our basketball program, missed the NCAA.
And, this doesn't even take into consideration that Sam Hauser turned in one of the top 3 Value Add seasons this century, after D-Wade and Rowsey. Yep. Rowsey and Sam's Value Add were better than any of Jae, Jimmy, Wes, Jerel, Travis, DJO, Lazar.
To the positive, Wojo recruited all of Sam, Markus, and Rowsey - landed the talent - but seemingly failed to deliver on the results that such elite performance should have led to. (Maybe 1 NCAA tourney win?)
So here we have another perfectly good thread about a pretty cool accomplishment being sullied by Know It All 1 and Know It All 2.
Two guys who love presenting their opinions as facts. Two guys who seem to revel in being negative and in making personal attacks.
Quote from: MU82 on March 19, 2018, 05:47:07 PM
So here we have another perfectly good thread about a pretty cool accomplishment being sullied by Know It All 1 and Know It All 2.
Two guys who love presenting their opinions as facts. Two guys who seem to revel in being negative and in making personal attacks.
Where was the personal attack 82? What did I post above that wasn't factual? Your juvenile need to try to defend Wojo at every turn is just silly. Wojo's a grown man, being paid millions. He's fair game for being critiqued. It goes with the profession.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 05:56:40 PM
What did I post above that wasn't factual?
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 02:28:19 PM
Not their fault. The defensive scheme chosen for this team was the wrong one from the outset.
That second one is called an opinion
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 19, 2018, 06:28:37 PM
That second one is called an opinion
True. Yet if you believe finishing 175 on defense, and worse than any high major team, proved to the the right defensive approach AND when across the board in conference play the opposition is almost exclusively bigger, stronger, faster, and you want to match up M2M - was the right choice? Have at that logic and opinion.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 06:32:15 PM
True. Yet if you believe finishing 175 on defense, and worse than any high major team, proved to the the right defensive approach AND when across the board in conference play the opposition is almost exclusively bigger, stronger, faster, and you want to match up M2M - was the right choice? Have at that logic and opinion.
I have given my opinion on the matter repeatedly. I was just pointing out that you tried to pass off your opinion as fact again.
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 19, 2018, 12:54:21 PM
Single Season Points
1. 710 Dwyane Wade 2002‐03
2. 693 Jerel McNeal 2008‐09
3. 689 Tony Smith 1989‐90
4. 687 Andrew Rowsey 2017-18
5. 673 Markus Howard 2017-18
6. 664 George Thompson 1967‐68
7. 640 Wesley Matthews 2008‐09
8. 628 Butch Lee 1976‐77
9. 623 Darius Johnson‐Odom 2011‐12
10. 616 Lazar Hayward 2009‐10
10. 616 Dean Meminger 1970‐71
11. 614 Jae Crowder 2011‐12
Apple's and oranges. No three point shots for George T. And Dean M. Adjust for that and it paints a different picture.
Quote from: Class71 on March 19, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Apple's and oranges. No three point shots for George T. And Dean M. Adjust for that and it paints a different picture.
Obviously, but that's true for McNeal as well. True of a lot of other stats as well. Rule change and stats adjust/suffer. Just what it is. How many asterisks can there be?
Quote from: Class71 on March 19, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Apple's and oranges. No three point shots for George T. And Dean M. Adjust for that and it paints a different picture.
Fully agree.
Quote from: Class71 on March 19, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Apple's and oranges. No three point shots for George T. And Dean M. Adjust for that and it paints a different picture.
Points is points.
Quote from: Class71 on March 19, 2018, 07:35:34 PM
Apple's and oranges. No three point shots for George T. And Dean M. Adjust for that and it paints a different picture.
From Sports Reference, here's the field goals made per game and field goal percentage for the seasons in question:
Thompson: 8.7 (49.7%)
Meminger: 7.4 (50.8%)
Howard: 7.0 (46.6%)
Rowsey: 5.9 (41.7%)
So Markus is holding his own with two all-time greats. Made all the more impressive that he's
deliberately taking over half his shots from at least 21 feet out.
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 19, 2018, 05:56:40 PM
Where was the personal attack 82? What did I post above that wasn't factual? Your juvenile need to try to defend Wojo at every turn is just silly. Wojo's a grown man, being paid millions. He's fair game for being critiqued. It goes with the profession.
You had a personal attack on Wojo. In a different thread, you called everybody who didn't agree with you "numbskulls." In another, you said it was "absurd" to have an opinion different than yours.
And in just about every comment,you present an opinion as "fact."
But maybe I shouldn't be so hard on you. You simply happen to think your opinion is so much better than everybody else's that you've brainwashed yourself into thinking they're facts.
<<Your juvenile need to try to defend Wojo at every turn is just silly. Wojo's a grown man, being paid millions. He's fair game for being critiqued. It goes with the profession.>>I could look up recent threads and point out many instances in which I criticized Wojo - including after our loss to DePaul and after he acted like a jerk at a press conference - but I don't need to constantly prove myself to a mope like you.
I fully agree that coaches can be - and should be critiqued. Hell, I did it for a living!
But you have a juvenile need to rip Wojo even in threads that have nothing to do with him - like this one. There were 14 comments before yours, and not a single one mentioned coaching. Only one - from Sand Knit; who else? - even alluded to it. But you couldn't help yourself. As usual, you gave in to your pathological need to be the smartest guy in the room. My long history as an observer of the human condition has taught me that such guys usually are far from that.
Ners, I actually feel sorry for you that you constantly need to try to show a bunch of anonymous interwebs dudes and dudettes that you're smarter than the rest of us. It must be exhausting.
Quote from: mikekinsellaMVP on March 19, 2018, 08:37:07 PM
From Sports Reference, here's the field goals made per game and field goal percentage for the seasons in question:
Thompson: 8.7 (49.7%)
Meminger: 7.4 (50.8%)
Howard: 7.0 (46.6%)
Rowsey: 5.9 (41.7%)
So Markus is holding his own with two all-time greats. Made all the more impressive that he's deliberately taking over half his shots from at least 21 feet out.
Agree these statistics reflect a more accurate picture of offensive skill. It also elimintes the differences due to the number of games played in a year. From three distance both Howard and Rowsey shoot better than Dean who was a great slasher, ball handler, play maker and defender but did not have a great outside shot. Give it to George at the end of tight games was a common chant for obvious reasons. He took over and won many games from the outside but more often driving through trees with "brute force" with a very strong handle won more games. Andrew and Marcus are great three point shooters. No one should ever diminish that accomplishment.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2018, 12:10:51 AM
You had a personal attack on Wojo. In a different thread, you called everybody who didn't agree with you "numbskulls." In another, you said it was "absurd" to have an opinion different than yours.
And in just about every comment,you present an opinion as "fact."
But maybe I shouldn't be so hard on you. You simply happen to think your opinion is so much better than everybody else's that you've brainwashed yourself into thinking they're facts.
<<Your juvenile need to try to defend Wojo at every turn is just silly. Wojo's a grown man, being paid millions. He's fair game for being critiqued. It goes with the profession.>>
I could look up recent threads and point out many instances in which I criticized Wojo - including after our loss to DePaul and after he acted like a jerk at a press conference - but I don't need to constantly prove myself to a mope like you.
I fully agree that coaches can be - and should be critiqued. Hell, I did it for a living!
But you have a juvenile need to rip Wojo even in threads that have nothing to do with him - like this one. There were 14 comments before yours, and not a single one mentioned coaching. Only one - from Sand Knit; who else? - even alluded to it. But you couldn't help yourself. As usual, you gave in to your pathological need to be the smartest guy in the room. My long history as an observer of the human condition has taught me that such guys usually are far from that.
Ners, I actually feel sorry for you that you constantly need to try to show a bunch of anonymous interwebs dudes and dudettes that you're smarter than the rest of us. It must be exhausting.
Mike, why engage? It's Ners.
Quote from: MU82 on March 20, 2018, 12:10:51 AM
You had a personal attack on Wojo. In a different thread, you called everybody who didn't agree with you "numbskulls." In another, you said it was "absurd" to have an opinion different than yours.
And in just about every comment,you present an opinion as "fact."
But maybe I shouldn't be so hard on you. You simply happen to think your opinion is so much better than everybody else's that you've brainwashed yourself into thinking they're facts.
<<Your juvenile need to try to defend Wojo at every turn is just silly. Wojo's a grown man, being paid millions. He's fair game for being critiqued. It goes with the profession.>>
I could look up recent threads and point out many instances in which I criticized Wojo - including after our loss to DePaul and after he acted like a jerk at a press conference - but I don't need to constantly prove myself to a mope like you.
I fully agree that coaches can be - and should be critiqued. Hell, I did it for a living!
But you have a juvenile need to rip Wojo even in threads that have nothing to do with him - like this one. There were 14 comments before yours, and not a single one mentioned coaching. Only one - from Sand Knit; who else? - even alluded to it. But you couldn't help yourself. As usual, you gave in to your pathological need to be the smartest guy in the room. My long history as an observer of the human condition has taught me that such guys usually are far from that.
Ners, I actually feel sorry for you that you constantly need to try to show a bunch of anonymous interwebs dudes and dudettes that you're smarter than the rest of us. It must be exhausting.
So, we had a thread started here by a someone here saying: "I can't wait till Rowsey is gone." Other's chimed in their approval in that thread. Some. Not all. Seems pretty numbskull to me that our leading SOTG would be so awful to some here that they can't wait till Rowsey is gone. But yes, that is an opinion - not the definition of "fact," in your book.
It is a relevant FACT, that we are witnessing the highest scoring duo in MU's illustrious program history in Markus and Andrew, and we missed the NCAA. Wonder why?
It is a fact that Sam and Rowsey turned in the best value add seasons this century, trailing only D-Wade...and we missed the NCAA. What do we ascribe this to?
You take great offense to Wojo being "personally attacked," as the adult being paid millions. How about thread's like the one attacking Andrew. Hell, I NEVER started a thread stating: I can't wait till Derrick Wilson is gone. Now, when people made absurd statements as to Derrick being good/effective and as being better than Junior Cadougan? Yea. I disagreed. Vehemently. But, for every post I made critical of Derrick, there was someone (usually the same 5-7 posters) posting to the contrary. In retrospect I feel badly having argued "against" Derrick...as he was the kid. Rarely in my posting history will you ever find me being critical of our players. But Wojo? Yea. He's totally on limits.
Sorry, I take offense to dumb opinions at times. Such as yours stating Kevin O'Neill and Wojo walked into essentially the same task at hand upon arriving at MU.
As for your armchair psychology "as an observer of the human condition," congratulations on self-bestowing yourself as the resident expert. Once again, your opinion, is wrong.
The title of this thread is "710." It refers to MU's all-time record for the most points scored in a season. Nothing more, nothing less.
The number of games played isn't really relevant, since players and teams appear in different numbers of games. Other stats such as "field goals per game" or "field goal percentage" are just that: other stats. This stat is simply an absolute measure for scoring. It's not meant to be, nor should it be, the end-all, be-all indicator of where you stand in the pantheon of Marquette greats.
It's just a record. One among many. And one that's okay to celebrate without qualifiers.
Photo I took of record setting point:
https://twitter.com/talltitan34/status/976285193760747520?s=21
Quote from: TallTitan34 on March 20, 2018, 08:25:56 PM
Photo I took of record setting point:
https://twitter.com/talltitan34/status/976267947768532992?s=21
Fitting that it came on a free throw from "The Thing"
Quote from: Floorslapper on March 20, 2018, 08:46:02 AM
So, we had a thread started here by a someone here saying: "I can't wait till Rowsey is gone." Other's chimed in their approval in that thread. Some. Not all. Seems pretty numbskull to me that our leading SOTG would be so awful to some here that they can't wait till Rowsey is gone. But yes, that is an opinion - not the definition of "fact," in your book.
It is a relevant FACT, that we are witnessing the highest scoring duo in MU's illustrious program history in Markus and Andrew, and we missed the NCAA. Wonder why?
It is a fact that Sam and Rowsey turned in the best value add seasons this century, trailing only D-Wade...and we missed the NCAA. What do we ascribe this to?
You take great offense to Wojo being "personally attacked," as the adult being paid millions. How about thread's like the one attacking Andrew. Hell, I NEVER started a thread stating: I can't wait till Derrick Wilson is gone. Now, when people made absurd statements as to Derrick being good/effective and as being better than Junior Cadougan? Yea. I disagreed. Vehemently. But, for every post I made critical of Derrick, there was someone (usually the same 5-7 posters) posting to the contrary. In retrospect I feel badly having argued "against" Derrick...as he was the kid. Rarely in my posting history will you ever find me being critical of our players. But Wojo? Yea. He's totally on limits.
Sorry, I take offense to dumb opinions at times. Such as yours stating Kevin O'Neill and Wojo walked into essentially the same task at hand upon arriving at MU.
As for your armchair psychology "as an observer of the human condition," congratulations on self-bestowing yourself as the resident expert. Once again, your opinion, is wrong.
chili's right. You ain't worth it. Later.
Tall Titan, where do you get such great stats?
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on March 20, 2018, 09:04:43 PM
Tall Titan, where do you get such great stats?
I just had a general admission ticket and stood along the rail behind the students section.
I got lucky though. A friend's coworker got tickets and couldn't use them.