MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GooooMarquette on March 11, 2018, 05:50:22 PM
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Xavier.
If you look at the team sheets, MU looks as good or better than ASU, Oklahoma and 'Cuse overall. The one thing those teams all have that MU doesn't? One or more really big wins.
Our best: @ Providence (31 RPI)
ASU: neutral vs X (3 RPI), @ Kansas (5 RPI)
Okla: home vs Kansas (5 RPI), @ Wichita State (11 RPI)
Cuse: home vs Clemson (10 RPI)
Given that the home/road distinction doesn't seem to matter as much as we thought, I think the key loss was the home game against X. The DePaul loss sucked...but all three of them have at least one comparable loss.
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Agree. I actually think we can put to bed the fact that the DePaul road loss killed us. It was the fact we didn’t beat top tier teams. We lost 7 games or so to the top 12(?) but lost all of them. One of those wins would have gotten MU in. DePaul road game would have maybe moved us up a bit but not enough.
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This year's team really isn't very good.
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If we win that Depaul game what place do we finish in the BE? If it's 1-6 we are in. Those are just facts.
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Think this is dead on.
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100% right. Everybody complains about the DePaul game, but if we weren't even first four out, adding a win against DePaul, or subtracting a loss however you want to look at it wasn't getting us in. That X game would have made us a lock, even with the DePaul loss.
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If we win that Depaul game what place do we finish in the BE? If it's 1-6 we are in. Those are just facts.
3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
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3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
Untrue if the comitee actually doesn't look at the conference standings. Adding a DePaul win doesn't jump us over 4+ teams, the xavier game would have. X loss hurts more than DePaul loss looking back
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3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
Exactly!!!!! Stop with the BS. That loss cost us big time.
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Untrue if the comitee actually doesn't look at the conference standings. Adding a DePaul win doesn't jump us over 4+ teams, the xavier game would have. X loss hurts more than DePaul loss looking back
Hahaha. Okay.
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3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
What place did USC finish in the pac 12? What place did asu finish in the pac 12? Which team made the tournament?
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Argument could be made for both games. If we win @depaul then we get the 3 seed and a shot at Providence who we can absolutely beat and a legitimate shot to beat another tourney team. Beat X and we've beaten a top team. Both were turning points in the season in retrospect and ones that led us down this path.
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Untrue if the comitee actually doesn't look at the conference standings. Adding a DePaul win doesn't jump us over 4+ teams, the xavier game would have. X loss hurts more than DePaul loss looking back
Actually adding a DePaul win would've put us in a more favorable position in the BE tournament. We would've avoided DePaul in the first round and faced a much stronger opponent on a neutral site.
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Hahaha. Okay.
You think beating DePaul jumps us 4 teams, you must think DePaul is a really good team.
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If u truly think the 3rd place team in the BE gets left out I’m not really sure what to say. Honestly, you really can’t believe that can you? Seriously?
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Actually adding a DePaul win would've put us in a more favorable position in the BE tournament. We would've avoided DePaul in the first round and faced a much stronger opponent on a neutral site.
Conference tourney doesn't really matter unless you win it. X stayed a 1 seed PC only got up to a 10
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What place did USC finish in the pac 12? What place did asu finish in the pac 12? Which team made the tournament?
Completely different conferences, jabroni.
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You think beating DePaul jumps us 4 teams, you must think DePaul is a really good team.
MU's RPI doesn't drop double digits when you beat DePaul.
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I think if we had beaten DeP, and finished 10-8 with the other teams at 10-8 there would have been a little mini-tourney and I believe we were 5-1, so yes, we would have been 3rd and in easily.
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What really cost us was losing 4 BE games in a row and giving ourselves 0 margin for error.
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If u truly think the 3rd place team in the BE gets left out I’m not really sure what to say. Honestly, you really can’t believe that can you? Seriously?
considering that conference standing don't matter and how close the middle of the pack was adding a DePaul win would not have gotten us in. If we were first four out, it'd be a different conversation. Unless DePaul is much better than everyone here give them credit for, beating them doesn't give us that much of a better resume.
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Conference tourney doesn't really matter unless you win it. X stayed a 1 seed PC only got up to a 10
It's still another game or two to add to our resume. I'm not saying it would've made a huge difference though. Beating DePaul at a neutral side didn't do much for us.
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What really cost us was losing 4 BE games in a row and giving ourselves 0 margin for error.
This. PC, and X hurt much more than. Depaul.
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Newsflash: Winning the X game would have put us at 3rd...but MORE IMPORTANTLY would also have given us a marquee win.
For those who think the position in conference was the key:
Cuse finished behind both UL and ND in the ACC. Didn't seem to bother the committee because Cuse had a top-10 win.
ASU finished behind USC, Stanford, Utah, Washington, Oregon and Colorado. That's six teams that got left out. Didn't seem to bother the committee because ASU had two top-10 wins.
The DePaul loss hurt, and maybe we would have gotten in if we had finished 3rd with a DePaul win. But like it or not, the Xavier loss hurt even more because a win would have gotten us into 3rd and given us a marquee win, which was clearly more important to the committee than conference standings.
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You know what loss really hurt? Nova, if only we could have knocked them off...
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3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
It woun't have been because of 3rd place via elaborate 4-way tie breaks that we made it though. USC was #2 in PAC12, made conference championship too, and was left out. Conference finish has nothing to do with it.
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Untrue if the comitee actually doesn't look at the conference standings. Adding a DePaul win doesn't jump us over 4+ teams, the xavier game would have. X loss hurts more than DePaul loss looking back
Let ne say this
I do not think a 10-6 will ever not get into the ncaa. People are right in no key wins but i also think 10-6 ( depaul game) will always get a BE team in
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This game, that game, blah, blah, blah. What cost us was we weren't all that good. Fun to watch, yes - especially when the ball was going in the hoop. But even when we were on fire it took OT to win at crappy Georgetown. A team that leaks as bad as we did on D has zero margin foe error. Hope we go on a long run in the NIT but streaks are hard for teams who only play on one side of the court.
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This game, that game, blah, blah, blah. What cost us was we weren't all that good. Fun to watch, yes - especially when the ball was going in the hoop. But even when we were on fire it took OT to win at crappy Georgetown. A team that leaks as bad as we did on D has zero margin foe error. Hope we go on a long run in the NIT but streaks are hard for teams who only play on one side of the court.
Totally agree
We hit some shots but basically sucked, freshman and sophs show promise but too young. I think all BE teams that got in start at least 3 seniors.
Other problem was Rowsey n Howard scored 20 a game and that looks intriguing until u realize they each gave up 30 with their inability to guard their shadow
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Besides the obvious DePaul loss......
The loss to #12 seed Georgia at home was our worst loss......
That gives that committee a place holder on us vs. a lot of Big conference state schools.....and not in a positive light.....
We deserved what we got because we are 4th Quartile on defense......
Do you honestly know how bad that is?
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Let ne say this
I do not think a 10-6 will ever not get into the ncaa. People are right in no key wins but i also think 10-6 ( depaul game) will always get a BE team in
Damn straight. If we just could have won one more AND lost three less, we'd be in.
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Lenny
Spot on. Not a very good team, but they did provide some entertaining moments. The little guys scored at rate that we never have seen at MU.
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I think it was the Depaul loss myself. To me that sealed the deal. That, and getting crushed in losses against good teams. I dont think I could take another year of being happy we got into the tourney to get crushed in the first round again. I cant count how many texts and messages i recieved that day when Georgia slapped us up.
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The team that will win the NIT is probably the one that plays the best defense
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If we turned any conference loss into a win we make it. It really doesn’t matter who it was because a team that finishes third in the Big East at 10-8 is going to get in.
You are just arguing over what game would have improved our seed the most.
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If we turned any conference loss into a win we make it. It really doesn’t matter who it was because a team that finishes third in the Big East at 10-8 is going to get in.
You are just arguing over what game would have improved our seed the most.
I would tend to agree if the committee had us right on the edge. But all indications are that we weren't even one of the first four out. I'm not so sure a win over DePaul would jump us over teams like ND, St. Mary's, USC and Baylor. Note that three of the four "first four out" teams also had at least one win that was more impressive than our win @ PC (31 RPI). ND beat Wichita State (11 RPI), SMU beat the Zags (22 RPI), and Baylor beat KU (5 RPI). The only of the first four out that doesn't have a better win than our @ PC was USC.
So of the 8 teams right on the edge (last 4 in, first 4 out) 7 out of 8 have a better signature win than MU. Oh, and they all had at least one Q3 loss...some far worse than DePaul.
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Untrue if the comitee actually doesn't look at the conference standings. Adding a DePaul win doesn't jump us over 4+ teams, the xavier game would have. X loss hurts more than DePaul loss looking back
Well, adding a DePaul win doesn't help us all that much, but taking away a DePaul loss does. We'll never know, but I think either the DePaul or the Xavier losses turned around would've gotten us in.
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Well, adding a DePaul win doesn't help us all that much, but taking away a DePaul loss does. We'll never know, but I think either the DePaul or the Xavier losses turned around would've gotten us in.
I think any loss would've put us in. Probably true of anyone on the top two NIT seed lines.
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Considering there were about 4-5 losses that were "the one" that cost us, it likely means that MU simply wasn't a tourney team this year.
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Well, adding a DePaul win doesn't help us all that much, but taking away a DePaul loss does. We'll never know, but I think either the DePaul or the Xavier losses turned around would've gotten us in.
The committee made it pretty clear that having big wins was more important than not having bad losses. That's how ASU got in. Not losing to DePaul would have been about a 10 spot boost in RPI. We weren't even first four out. I don't think a bump of 10 in RPI jumps up over 4+ teams. We'll never know, but my point is that if we could change one L into a W, the DePaul L to W scenario likely still see us on the outside looking in, no matter where we finished in conference standings. Changing the Xavier L to W scenario likely sees us in and avoiding Dayton.
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One mega win probably does it. Either of the home games vs Xavier or Nova which were close.
Our profile would have been very similar to Butler and Creighton.
Otherwise, probably needed two. Providence or Butler, plus Georgia or @DePaul would have given us a profile similar to Seton Hall.
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If we turned any conference loss into a win we make it. It really doesn’t matter who it was because a team that finishes third in the Big East at 10-8 is going to get in.
You are just arguing over what game would have improved our seed the most.
Why did the 2nd place regular season Pac12 team that made the Pac12 championship get left out?
10-8 would have likely gotten us a bid. But 3rd place in conference would have nothing to do with it.
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I am still picturing Bridges pushing Cain out of the way to secure the offensive rebound at the end of the Villanova game. Bridges was built along the lines of Cain as a freshman. Weight room. Cain gets that rebound, Marquette goes down drains a 3......
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3rd.
The third place team in the BE gets in. Anyone who says otherwise in this thread in an idiot.
Realistically, we were 1 win short. I don't think it matters what loss you trade for a win, any one would work. The Depaul one sticks out because it was a game we should win and it was a late and it was a kick in the nuts.
But had we beaten X, Nova, Butler, PC, Georgia...any of them, I think we're in and not in Dayton. Give us the @Depaul W and it may be Dayton, but we would have been in.
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I am still picturing Bridges pushing Cain out of the way to secure the offensive rebound at the end of the Villanova game. Bridges was but along the lines of Cain as a freshman. Weight room. Cain gets that rebound, Marquette goes down drains a 3......
Or the hack on Sacar called... or anyone deciding to hit Sam wide open on the wing down the stretch several times against Xavier....
Bad dreams man.... baaaad dreams
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If Seton Hall would have turned one point losses vs URI & Nova into wins, RPI wizard projects them at 19.
Suddenly Marquette has a little more shine on our resume without doing anything different.