We owe these guys.
Theo's back for this one. Gonna make a big difference.
Warriors>Red...
Sacar for the back to back SOTG
GO WARRIORS!!!!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?page=chat
Least we won't need for OT with Sh and Prov.
Hopefully more students show up. Looks like there's about 20 in the BC at the moment.
I am at the game. Looking forward to a great game from Greg Elliott.
This is disappointingly empty for such a big game. Bigger crowd at Vermont
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 21, 2018, 07:24:06 PM
This is disappointingly empty for such a big game. Bigger crowd at Vermont
Really surprised at this. On the bright side, maybe this will help next year's ticket prices.
If anything, this will help convince them to make the student section smaller.
That looks like man to man. Inconceivable.
Don't want to get in the running game with these guys
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2018, 07:33:40 PM
That looks like man to man. Inconceivable.
Yes and two fouls already. Don't get it
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2018, 07:33:40 PM
That looks like man to man. Inconceivable.
It's been fine so far *knocks on a bunch of wood*
Quote from: DJO's Jaw on February 21, 2018, 07:31:33 PM
If anything, this will help convince them to make the student section smaller.
I'm seeing a lot of ticket holder seats empty.
Whole place looks disappointingly empty on TV. Team playing some nice D early.
Zone. After the TO. Strategery
Some nice D by Matt, Sacar and Greg.
Dickie..."zone seems to be working". They played zone for one possession
Couple of great passes by Sam, but a couple of bad mistakes too.....
Freshmen stink
When they cleared out for Theo, I believe my exact words were no...no...no...oh, cool!
Quote from: tower912 on February 21, 2018, 07:33:40 PM
That looks like man to man. Inconceivable.
Nah. Not at all. Wojo has a history of the inconceivable.
Nice that he finally moved to zone. Nice not watching a layup line at the basket and seeing St. John's have to launch contested 3s.
Announcers just praised wojo and staff for player/freshmen development.
Just saying
Wait, what? Being competitive with a team this young is a credit to the coaching staff? But.....but.....
Goaltending and not an offensive foul. Great possession for the black & whites
Rowsey didn't want to hear refs crap explanation, so walked away.
Ref threatened wojo about it.
Can any refs here explain?
Hauser and rowsey getting hacked off the ball
With GE at the point, this could be dicey.
I'll give the Elliot pg experience a resounding f. Rowsey has to play the entire game.
Jeez up 11, then Greg with terrible pass, 3
Then Cain with terrible pass, 3.
3 straight, uh, less than great offensive possessions
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 21, 2018, 07:59:03 PM
With GE at the point, this could be dicey.
That lasted a minute.
No question we need an undergrad point guard for next year
Sam needs to take the lead when Rowseys out. Be assertive Sam come on man
Interesting stretch coming up
Not loving the Greg at point experience so far
Quote from: Henry the 6th Kings on February 21, 2018, 08:00:27 PM
No question we need an undergrad point guard for next year
Graduate *
Markus & Greg are NOT PGs.
Elliot has one turnover, 2 assists, a block and a steal. Why the hate?
The freshman are playing like...freshman
Nice pass by GE to "find" Sacar.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 21, 2018, 08:01:39 PM
Graduate *
Both.
Quote from: Norm on February 21, 2018, 08:03:03 PM
Elliot has one turnover, 2 assists, a block and a steal. Why the hate?
Not on him, just that being forced to play point guard with Anim as the second best ball handler on the floor isn't a position you want to put him in. Maybe after a summer of playing with that Dribble-Tron toy they have, but not something to bank on.
Quote from: Norm on February 21, 2018, 08:03:03 PM
Elliot has one turnover, 2 assists, a block and a steal. Why the hate?
If this was directed at me: I love GE's game (and he's only going to get better) but if we have to use him or MH at PG next year that would not be good.
This is with Ahmed on bench with three fouls. Needed to take advantage, but way too many bad pass turnovers.
I don't know why Sam wasn't playing the point with Rowsey out...I trust him more than any of the others on the floor.
Now they need to go after Owens with two get his third
Quote from: muguru on February 21, 2018, 08:10:17 PM
I don't know why Sam wasn't playing the point with Rowsey out...I trust him more than any of the others on the floor.
Hauser doesn't have a strong dribble. He's not reinhardt
people still call Milwaukee "Cream City?"
Elliott needs to slow down with the ball...a bit out of control. This is the best ball movement I've seen from Marquette in a long time. Without Howard in there, the secondary players don't have that deer-in-the-headlights look where they wait for the guards to chuck it.
Where's Frohling? Besides sitting on the bench
So I guess Trimble is going to have a career night, hey? Think we can get a stop on him?
There wasn't any contact at all by Sacar on that last foul.
Trimble? Are you fukin kidding me?!
Did people really expect GE to be a stud PG in his first ever start? Sheesh. I bet these same people expect to find $20 on the ground every day.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on February 21, 2018, 08:13:47 PM
So I guess Trimble is going to have a career night, hey? Think we can get a stop on him?
It's already a career high...Ponds has been quiet, and yet MU only up one..unbelievable.
Jamal.....the kid's good.
Great find AR
Don't understand the freshman hate. Cain, E, Theo, all did very well in my opinion
Good passing. Bad turnovers. Good ball movement. Bad transition D. Good freshmen. Bad freshmen. Decent set D. Bad shot selection.
Weird half.
Length helping our D on ton, whether in the zone or M2M. Would prefer to see all zone, but the length of Cain is a huge difference maker for this team defensively.
Only issue has been transition D - most of which came off a couple of forced shots by Andrew. All in all a pretty decent half.
Love seeing the ball moving and far less hero ball. Hopefully Markus is watching and taking note.
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 21, 2018, 08:12:49 PM
Where's Frohling? Besides sitting on the bench
He is busy making a difference.
Need to run zone more. Rowsey can not try fouls. Plain and simple.
Markus looks like an extra asst coach on the bench tonight. He's talking to teammates and coaches between plays and in timeouts. It's always good to see guys be good teammates even if they're not on the floor.
Is Cain able to post up? He almost always has a shorter defender
Was that a box and 1?
Keep letting them take jump shots. Except Trimble
Was that Steve Novak on that last shot?
Sam HOT
SAM!!
didn't know we had dickie v doing the color for us-cool!
Simpkins is driving me to drink. SACAR!
This zone has been really good
Jamal playing well
Nothing to see here...
Jamal playing well.
I KNEW he would do that as soon as I hit Post
Nice jinx
Freshmen
need to keep the pressure on these guys
Wojo's defensive switches have been on point tonight. Substitutions have been great as well
Morrow didn't look nearly as big as I was picturing as they were going to commercial
While they still make freshman mistakes, all three of our frosh will be solid BEast players. Theo with the left hand to score and then the pass to Hauser for three were great plays.
Maybe there's something to this Howard thing?
Best interior passing of the season by a mile
Not sure I want to stay on Scoop after this game with the inevitable posts about how they are playing without Markus.
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 21, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
Not sure I want to stay on Scoop after this game with the inevitable posts about how they are playing without Markus.
I've already started it. Though I think it's more of not playing them together.
Dickie Simpkins may be the worst.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 21, 2018, 09:06:56 PM
Maybe there's something to this Howard thing?
Yes. The team shares the ball much better and is much better defensively. Best this team has looked all year.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 21, 2018, 09:09:28 PM
Yes. The team shares the ball much better and is much better defensively. Best this team has looked all year.
Too bad we're not playing all zone, eh?
Quote from: GoldenZebra on February 21, 2018, 09:09:05 PM
Dickie Simpkins may be the worst.
Zero question in my book - by far the worst.
thats how you break a press!
Greg Elliot is the man.
GE won't get it but has a case for SOG
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 21, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
Not sure I want to stay on Scoop after this game with the inevitable posts about how they are playing without Markus.
Why? Because there's something to it?
Brew on the Jumbotron!
If Rowsey got hurt and it was Markus playing we might be getting a similar result. That may soften the blow of Rowseys loss next year
Quote from: MUpilot on February 21, 2018, 09:14:34 PM
Why? Because there's something to it?
I just think there is a small sample size. I mean, obviously our team has talented players that can score, that is just being put on display tonight because our main scoring option isnt playing.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on February 21, 2018, 09:15:44 PM
I just think there is a small sample size. I mean, obviously our team has talented players that can score, that is just being put on display tonight because our main scoring option isnt playing.
Yeah, I wasn't referring to scoring at all. Defense is our problem, not scoring. Howard is a liability on the defensive end
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 21, 2018, 09:15:41 PM
If Rowsey got hurt and it was Markus playing we might be getting a similar result. That may soften the blow of Rowseys loss next year
No way, no how.... If MU doesn't get a grad PG we will see...
Quote from: MUEng92 on February 21, 2018, 09:07:09 PM
Not sure I want to stay on Scoop after this game with the inevitable posts about how they are playing without Markus.
I think it more that the team is again playing within itself. Rowsey and Howard got obsessed and drank their own kool aid. This is an example of the former tonight. Also...being taller on the floor on d
Sam was awesome tonight and the freshman really stepped up, good win.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 21, 2018, 09:10:36 PM
Too bad we're not playing all zone, eh?
Well..baby steps with Wojo. He's still clearly learning on the job in Year 4. Thankfully he rolled with the zone for a majority of the game. Clearly he made a major miscalculation thinking the Rowsey Howard lineup was the formula for success.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on February 21, 2018, 09:09:05 PM
Dickie Simpkins may be the worst.
While I dread the call as much as anyone, very on point in the post game interview with Wojo. Quite good. An interesting angle from Dickie.
Quote from: chapman on February 21, 2018, 09:29:27 PM
While I dread the call as much as anyone, very on point in the post game interview with Wojo. Quite good. An interesting angle from Dickie.
What was it?
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 21, 2018, 09:24:16 PM
Well..baby steps with Wojo. He's still clearly learning on the job in Year 4. Thankfully he rolled with the zone for a majority of the game. Clearly he made a major miscalculation thinking the Rowsey Howard lineup was the formula for success.
Yeah, it's a shame he's not as smart as you guys when it comes to basketball strategy.
You know, there is a reason he was sitting on the bench last night and y'all were laying on your couch eating Funyuns. ;)
Quote from: warriorchick on February 22, 2018, 09:54:36 AM
Yeah, it's a shame he's not as smart as you guys when it comes to basketball strategy.
You know, there is a reason he was sitting on the bench last night and y'all were laying on your couch eating Funyuns. ;)
Have no doubt Wojo knows more than any of us about basketball strategy. Yet, also pretty sure there are a number of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo. Many have called for zone. For minimizing the time together of Rowsey/Howard. Wojo refused to do both until forced to due to the Markus injury. It is what it is. I'll leave this here for you from February 7th:
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 07, 2018, 05:13:27 PM
You greatly underestimate Rowsey's value. You absolutely do NOT want to see Markus Howard run the Point.
Over the last 4 games here are Markus's numbers:
137 Minutes Played
88 points
21/44 on 2ptFG
10/32 on 3ptFG
*This is 76 shot attempts over 4 games to generate 88 points.
10 Assists
14 Turnovers
Rowsey:
108 minutes played
42 points
6/16 2ptFG
6/20 3ptFG
12 Assists
7 Turnovers
Markus has gone full on hero ball, and the team has suffered as a result. Rowsey has not been playing well the last 4 games, yet taking him out and watching Markus run PG is NOT the solution. Personally, I feel Markus needs to be sat down and serve as the 6th man for instant offense. Clearly Markus has little interest in passing to his teammates.
Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve. Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not. However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom. Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't. Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision? There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing. Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus. There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part. I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman? Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 22, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve. Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not. However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom. Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't. Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision? There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing. Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus. There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part. I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman? Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.
You make an excellent point. And Markus HAS improved since his Frosh year when essentially every lane penetration resulted in a turnover. He's a smart, hard working kid. No doubt he'll work on his craft.
Quote from: jsglow on February 22, 2018, 10:16:22 AM
You make an excellent point. And Markus HAS improved since his Frosh year when essentially every lane penetration resulted in a turnover. He's a smart, hard working kid. No doubt he'll work on his craft.
Agree with all of this. Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person. However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light." Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.
Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG: You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.
Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
Have no doubt Wojo knows more than any of us about basketball strategy.
Yes, totally. I'm on board.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 10:00:16 AM
Yet, also pretty sure there are a number of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo.
Hoo boy.
"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."
I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
Agree with all of this. Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person. However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light." Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.
Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG: You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.
Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)
While I agree that Markus is a very good player, "a stud at every level" is over the top. His defense clearly is not studly, nor is his ball distribution. Hopefully those areas will continue to improve.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 22, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve. Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not. However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom. Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't. Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision? There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing. Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus. There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part. I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman? Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.
Totally agree. Markus can improve, and hopefully he will. By all accounts, he's a smart, hard-working kid. He certainly is intelligent enough to know that his only road to the NBA is as a PG.
If Markus can become at least as good a distributor as Rowsey has been the past couple of games, it will benefit both him and the 2018-19 Warriors tremendously.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 22, 2018, 12:22:03 PM
While I agree that Markus is a very good player, "a stud at every level" is over the top. His defense clearly is not studly, nor is his ball distribution. Hopefully those areas will continue to improve.
....or his ability to protect the ball at times.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2018, 12:09:25 PM
Yes, totally. I'm on board.
Hoo boy.
"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."
I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.
So in your view head coaches by virtue of their position alone, never make bad coaching decisions? It is beyond the realm of possibility that die hard fans who study the sport closely cannot observe a better way of doing things?
Can you please breakdown our PPP in conference play prior to Creighton game? Very curious what those numbers look like. Also, how did our PPP break down in St. John's game zone/versus man - and how many trips to FT line were result of zone vs man?
You do provide great research here TAMU, thus why I ask you to perform the above. Research expert in chief here.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 12:38:52 PM
So in your view head coaches by virtue of their position alone, never make bad coaching decisions? It is beyond the realm of possibility that die hard fans who study the sport closely cannot observe a better way of doing things?
I didn't say that. If you had said that you thought Wojo had got this one decision wrong or you disagreed with something he did, I wouldn't have said anything. I've disagreed with a lot of individual decisions Wojo has made.
But you said "you see the game better than he does." Maybe I'm misinterpreting but to me that sounds a lot like "I know more than the coach does."
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 12:38:52 PM
Can you please breakdown our PPP in conference play prior to Creighton game? Very curious what those numbers look like. Also, how did our PPP break down in St. John's game zone/versus man - and how many trips to FT line were result of zone vs man?
You do provide great research here TAMU, thus why I ask you to perform the above. Research expert in chief here.
Synergy doesn't have a setting just for conference games so I honestly don't have that data. I can look total season results, individual game results, and postseason results. For individual games, it gives the breakdown of possessions in zones, possessions of man, possessions scored against zone, and possessions scored against man, but not how many points were scored against the zone. If there's a way to get that data, I haven't found a way to manipulate synergy to do that yet.
What I can tell you is what I said this morning, we played 41 possessions of zone and 20 possessions of man. They scored 15 times against the zone (36.7%) and 6 times against the man (30%). This includes when they scored free throws from getting fouled. Given that we played more man in the first half and Saint John's only shot 3 FTs in the first half (compared to 11 in the second), my assumption is that more of the fouls (or at least more of the shooting fouls) came against the zone. Also, St. John's made 7 of their 11 three pointers in the second half so my assumption is that more of those came against the zone. This likely means that the man was significantly better from a ppp standpoint.
However, I will say that the offense seemed to flow better when we played zone on defense. As previously mentioned, we played mostly zone in the second half. We shot and scored much better in the second. It seemed to me that the zone was better at leading to transition offense....but it didn't force more turnovers. SJU had 7 turns in the first half and 5 in the second. We were doing a better job pushing the offense after a missed shot during the second half than the first half. I don't know if that is the result of an adjustment on offense....or if the zone caused SJU to take more jumpers, which leads to long rebounds, which can lead to transition.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2018, 01:01:50 PM
I didn't say that. If you had said that you thought Wojo had got this one decision wrong or you disagreed with something he did, I wouldn't have said anything. I've disagreed with a lot of individual decisions Wojo has made.
But you said "you see the game better than he does." Maybe I'm misinterpreting but to me that sounds a lot like "I know more than the coach does."
Synergy doesn't have a setting just for conference games so I honestly don't have that data. I can look total season results, individual game results, and postseason results. For individual games, it gives the breakdown of possessions in zones, possessions of man, possessions scored against zone, and possessions scored against man, but not how many points were scored against the zone. If there's a way to get that data, I haven't found a way to manipulate synergy to do that yet.
What I can tell you is what I said this morning, we played 41 possessions of zone and 20 possessions of man. They scored 15 times against the zone (36.7%) and 6 times against the man (30%). This includes when they scored free throws from getting fouled. Given that we played more man in the first half and Saint John's only shot 3 FTs in the first half (compared to 11 in the second), my assumption is that more of the fouls (or at least more of the shooting fouls) came against the zone. Also, St. John's made 7 of their 11 three pointers in the second half so my assumption is that more of those came against the zone. This likely means that the man was significantly better from a ppp standpoint.
However, I will say that the offense seemed to flow better when we played zone on defense. As previously mentioned, we played mostly zone in the second half. We shot and scored much better in the second. It seemed to me that the zone was better at leading to transition offense....but it didn't force more turnovers. SJU had 7 turns in the first half and 5 in the second. We were doing a better job pushing the offense after a missed shot during the second half than the first half. I don't know if that is the result of an adjustment on offense....or if the zone caused SJU to take more jumpers, which leads to long rebounds, which can lead to transition.
To clarify, re-read what I posted - I said there are a NUMBER of posters here who see the game better than does Wojo. Not myself. Generally Wojo has really struggled with in-game adjustments. That is the ultimate barometer of seeing the game. "Everybody has a plan until they get hit." Mike Tyson. Wojo's plan/strategy may be fine, but once it fails it historically has seemed like there is little counter-punch ability.
Thanks for the additional info on Synergy. I've never used the tool/had access. If not too much trouble could you go back game by game in conference and share our PPP numbers? Would be really interesting to see.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 22, 2018, 10:29:23 AM
Agree with all of this. Markus is a stud on every level - as a player and a person. However, things got carried away with Wojo saying and giving him the "ultimate green light." Believe this time on the bench will be helpful to Markus's growth as a PG/teammate and seeing he doesn't need to do it all on his own.
Great news is Wojo now has a formula for next year even if we don't land a PG: You can roll with what I expect to be an improved Markus at PG, surround him with length in a zone, find situational rest for Markus - and the team can be stellar next year.
Yes, we will miss Rowsey a lot, but I see no reason why Markus can't step into the role Andrew has RIGHT now (with Markus out), and not perform comparably (after another summer of ball handling work.)
I agree with this. When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America. When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo?? A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies. Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them. While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 22, 2018, 12:09:25 PM
Yes, totally. I'm on board.
Hoo boy.
"Wojo knows more about basketball than any of us.....except for me."
I wasn't sure if our new Floor Slapping friend was Ners or not. Now I am convinced.
Ners gonna Ners.
I mean, can Wojo even dunk?
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 22, 2018, 02:44:09 PM
I agree with this. When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America. When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo?? A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies. Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them. While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players
Please explain Rowseys transition into a solid passing PG then. Henry knew he was gone at the end of the season and did whatever he thought was best for his draft stock. Wojo got AR to adjust his game, and I'm confident that he can do the same with MH. Just because he isn't calling Markus our publicly does not mean that they aren't having conversations about his shots selection. Markus is a smart kid, I expect him to be able to adjust to a more pass focused role next year.
Im quite sure n hope that wojo is addressing Markus deficiencies. However his shot selection and his pkaying time would not suggest that they are an issue.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 22, 2018, 02:55:22 PM
Im quite sure n hope that wojo is addressing Markus deficiencies. However his shot selection and his pkaying time would not suggest that they are an issue.
As Brew pointed out in the STJ thoughts thread, as recently as three games ago, the Freshman were putting up goose eggs in the scoring column. If no one else will shoot, I have no problem with Markus and Rowsey chucking the way they were. Markus launching 5 feet behind the line at 30% is better than 3-5 shoot clock violations per game.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 22, 2018, 02:44:09 PM
I agree with this. When ur coach tells the media he is one of the best players in America. When he says u have the ultimate green light, when he says ur bad shots are better than most guys good shots .... what do u expect from an 18 yo?? A straight up chucker that kills offensive flow.
Other coaches would publicly give him props but also publicly call him out for his deficiencies. Seems like a Henry all over again, that despite Henry chucking 3s at a 27% rate he encouraged him to keep chucking them. While anyone could see his 3 point chucking was hurting the team.
Seems wojo is afraid to be honest with his star players
HS / college - Usually not
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 22, 2018, 03:01:25 PM
As Brew pointed out in the STJ thoughts thread, as recently as three games ago, the Freshman were putting up goose eggs in the scoring column. If no one else will shoot, I have no problem with Markus and Rowsey chucking the way they were. Markus launching 5 feet behind the line at 30% is better than 3-5 shoot clock violations per game.
Hard to shoot when no shots are available due to one player taking 34% of your shots in conference play. Of course Cain, Elliott, Sacar, et al would like to get some shots up, yet, what can you do when you have two guys who are eating nearly 64% of all shots?
Quote from: TSmith34 on February 22, 2018, 02:49:36 PM
Ners gonna Ners.
I mean, can Wojo even dunk?
Don't think so. But, he can definitely get down and slap the floor.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 23, 2018, 08:40:36 AM
Hard to shoot when no shots are available due to one player taking 34% of your shots in conference play. Of course Cain, Elliott, Sacar, et al would like to get some shots up, yet, what can you do when you have two guys who are eating nearly 64% of all shots?
In the loss at St. John's the freshman, (Theo gets a pass, but Greg, Jamal, Harry, and Sacar) shot a combined 3-11. That shows a willingness to shoot, but not to make shots. All of them, other than Harry, have had times when they get hot and put up some points, Sacar vs CU, Jamal had 11 the second time round vs STJ, and Greg had 13 against PC, but if they're not hitting shots, they don't have the confidence to continue to shoot.
Markus only shot slights better vs STJ (6-19) but he also got to the free throw line, and had many of the shot clock three's that no one other than AR is taking. Bottom line, when young players are missing shots, they're not going to keep shooting. Markus may be young, but in terms of experience he only trails AR, and Sam, so I'd rather take my chances of him getting hot, than Jamal or Greg.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 22, 2018, 10:11:23 AM
Its weird how people like to point out the Freshman's improvements, but think that someone, who could very well end up being the all time leading scorer in program history can't improve. Is Markus as good of a true point as Rowsey right now? Absolutely not. However, when Rowsey is playing to distribute, he is by far the best PG we've had since Dom. Everyone expects the Freshman to continue to grow, but think that Markus can't. Last offseason he developed the floater, why do people think that he can't improve his ball handling/vision? There have certainly been times that Rowsey was a bad distributor, and clearly Wojo has gotten him to change his game. He is still a high volume shooter, but he has vastly improved his passing. Why would we believe that Wojo can't get the same out of Markus. There's a lot of talk about the improvements of Sacar, Matt, and Theo, so the ability to develop players is clearly there on Wojos part. I realize that he hasn't shown it a ton yet as a PG, but does anyone really believe that Markus won't improve as an upperclassman? Keep in mind that traditionally the biggest jump for players is from Sophomore to Junior year, or second year in the program to third year, see Sacar this year.
I never said that Markus can't improve, and certainly don't think that. In fact, I fully expect a hard-working kid like Markus to get better every season.
That said, I still see Greg as the more likely point next season for a couple of reasons.
(1) While he has his TO difficulties now, he is playing with an injured thumb on his dominant hand. His PG skills are likely already better than what he has shown, so he may not be as far away as we think.
(2) It was clear coming into this season that we needed a PG. Neither Andrew nor Markus had shown them last season...so if Markus was going to work on his PG skills, he could have focused on that last summer. I have no idea if he did, but the opportunity was already there.
So yes, I expect that Markus
will improve in many ways over the next two seasons...including as a passer and ballhandler. Still, of the two, I see Greg at the 1 and Markus at the 2.
Love Greg Elliott as a prospect, but do not see him as a PG at any point in his career. Greg shows great North/South/straightline speed, but I do not see Greg being laterally quick. Ideal PG's can attack a defense and collapse a defense through both lateral quicks and straightline quicks.
Hard for a guy with Greg's build to be laterally quick. As he gains strength, he will improve in this area. Greg is the perfect wing/slasher, who can be capable to fill in as an emergency type of PG. Don't doubt the thumb is a factor for challenging Greg's ballhandling at present, yet a healed thumb won't affect his lateral quickness.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 23, 2018, 09:09:45 AM
I never said that Markus can't improve, and certainly don't think that. In fact, I fully expect a hard-working kid like Markus to get better every season.
That said, I still see Greg as the more likely point next season for a couple of reasons.
(1) While he has his TO difficulties now, he is playing with an injured thumb on his dominant hand. His PG skills are likely already better than what he has shown, so he may not be as far away as we think.
(2) It was clear coming into this season that we needed a PG. Neither Andrew nor Markus had shown them last season...so if Markus was going to work on his PG skills, he could have focused on that last summer. I have no idea if he did, but the opportunity was already there.
So yes, I expect that Markus will improve in many ways over the next two seasons...including as a passer and ballhandler. Still, of the two, I see Greg at the 1 and Markus at the 2.
I have been high on Greg being the PG of the future for a while now. I think it is a pretty big gamble to assume that you're getting a grad transfer next year and DJ Carton in 2019. Could it happen? yes, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think his height will be able to make up for the fact that he doesn't have the handling skills yet, and yes, we haven't yet seen him run point with two healthy hands. As the roster stands right now, I agree that our best line-up would have Greg at the 1, Markus at the 2, but Markus sliding into the 1 when Jamal, or Sacar (who should be first off the bench) come in.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 23, 2018, 09:19:56 AM
Love Greg Elliott as a prospect, but do not see him as a PG at any point in his career. Greg shows great North/South/straightline speed, but I do not see Greg being laterally quick. Ideal PG's can attack a defense and collapse a defense through both lateral quicks and straightline quicks.
Hard for a guy with Greg's build to be laterally quick. As he gains strength, he will improve in this area. Greg is the perfect wing/slasher, who can be capable to fill in as an emergency type of PG. Don't doubt the thumb is a factor for challenging Greg's ballhandling at present, yet a healed thumb won't affect his lateral quickness.
I'm curious to learn what position that you thought Greg played in high school? I know the level of competition was lower, but with the frontcourt depth we have going forward Greg is only going to get minutes as a guard.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 23, 2018, 09:25:10 AM
I'm curious to learn what position that you thought Greg played in high school? I know the level of competition was lower, but with the frontcourt depth we have going forward Greg is only going to get minutes as a guard.
Greg plays the 2. Simple. Markus at PG next year. Same formula we are currently using with Markus sidelined, except next year you plug Markus into the current Rowsey role.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 23, 2018, 09:28:22 AM
Greg plays the 2. Simple. Markus at PG next year. Same formula we are currently using with Markus sidelined, except next year you plug Markus into the current Rowsey role.
So your plan is to have Markus play 38 mpg with the depth we have. Not happening unless there are multiple transfers out, and no grad transfer.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 23, 2018, 09:30:22 AM
So your plan is to have Markus play 38 mpg with the depth we have. Not happening unless there are multiple transfers out, and no grad transfer.
My plan is that Markus is the primary PG. NOT Greg. Greg can fill a backup role to give Markus a breather for 5-10 minutes a game. BUT, I do not want Greg running PG for 30 minutes a game.
A grad transfer PG would be great, BUT, bring one in and the PT for Greg and Jamal will suffer. Not sure I'd rock that boat as I want to see Greg and Jamal gain a lot more experience next year. We should be really good next year. BUT, the 2019-2020 team could be exceptional with Sam, Markus, Morrow, Sacar as seniors. Greg, Jamal, Theo as HIGHLY EXPERIENCED Juniors.
This is could be a delicate roster management/player personnel issue once again.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 23, 2018, 09:48:58 AM
My plan is that Markus is the primary PG. NOT Greg. Greg can fill a backup role to give Markus a breather for 5-10 minutes a game. BUT, I do not want Greg running PG for 30 minutes a game.
A grad transfer PG would be great, BUT, bring one in and the PT for Greg and Jamal will suffer. Not sure I'd rock that boat as I want to see Greg and Jamal gain a lot more experience next year. We should be really good next year. BUT, the 2019-2020 team could be exceptional with Sam, Markus, Morrow, Sacar as seniors. Greg, Jamal, Theo as HIGHLY EXPERIENCED Juniors.
This is could be a delicate roster management/player personnel issue once again.
I guess we'll just agree to disagree about the PG situation concerning Markus and Greg. Get as grad transfer and it won't matter.
As for the roster, what happens, happens. Wojo will play the best players, and others may not be happy about it and transfer, the younger players may look and see that if they stick around they will be the stars of the show as Seniors. We can't predict the pace of different players development, or how happy they are in a supporting role. We can try, but we can't know for sure.
Quote from: Floorslapper on February 23, 2018, 08:42:21 AM
Don't think so. But, he can definitely get down and slap the floor.
Then it's obvious he'll never know as much about coaching as you. Or frozen yogurt.
Quote from: Its DJOver on February 23, 2018, 09:22:22 AMI have been high on Greg being the PG of the future for a while now. I think it is a pretty big gamble to assume that you're getting a grad transfer next year and DJ Carton in 2019. Could it happen? yes, but I'm not holding my breath.
I think the grad transfer will depend on how much movement there ends up being, but I think we'll be as much a player for those guys as anyone. There are a lot of potential options out there.
As far as 2019, I don't think the staff is holding their breath either, which is why we are also in on Rocket Watts, Tyrese Maxey, Mario McKinney, and other guards. There are a lot of options in that class that we're looking at. I'd love Carton, but they are kicking a lot of tires.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 23, 2018, 10:40:02 AM
I think the grad transfer will depend on how much movement there ends up being, but I think we'll be as much a player for those guys as anyone. There are a lot of potential options out there.
As far as 2019, I don't think the staff is holding their breath either, which is why we are also in on Rocket Watts, Tyrese Maxey, Mario McKinney, and other guards. There are a lot of options in that class that we're looking at. I'd love Carton, but they are kicking a lot of tires.
I admit that you know much more about grad transfers than me, and Wojo has a good track record with them.
As for 2019, Carton is the only realistic target right now that I would feel comfortable giving the keys to day one, which is what would be the case
if Markus and Greg both prove ineffective at PG next year (big "if" IMO). Overall the future of PG situation isn't a huge problem, mostly because I believe that Greg will be able to get the job done, but with all of the other talent we should have in 18-19, and 19-20, and the PG position being the most important in the college game, a good to great PG is the only thing missing from a couple of very good teams in the near future.