MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on November 21, 2017, 02:58:34 PM
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I don't know. I hope so. If he is a poor man's Henry and can rebound and play some defense, he will be a huge lift. If he is just a body, then nothing changes. Having a 10th body and another option on offense would have been nice today.
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We need someone who can score in the paint. Can he be a difference maker? Idk. Is providing some interior scoring as a change up to the outside dominance a "difference?" If so, then yes.
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Difference maker might be too much to ask but I think he'll help quite a bit. Gives us more size, more fouls, and hopefully an offensive threat from the 5. If he can score 6-8 per game I think that would be a big help.
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What was his game last year at SMU?
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Difference maker might be too much to ask but I think he'll help quite a bit. Gives us more size, more fouls, and hopefully an offensive threat from the 5. If he can score 6-8 per game I think that would be a big help.
Offense will have to change a tad, Bigs right now just set picks. How is Froling going to get the ball in this offense right now???
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Luke used to. Not that tough.
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Offense will have to change a tad, Bigs right now just set picks. How is Froling going to get the ball in this offense right now???
The bigs set picks now because they can't do much else offensively.
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The bigs set picks now because they can't do much else offensively.
Well the Purdue Center sure destroyed us.
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Any other December additions made a huge difference over the years? Offhand can’t think of any.
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No, hey? ‘til Wojo recruits some low post playas who can score and defend, his ass is gonna always bee handed to ‘im on a platter like it wuz today.
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Offense will have to change a tad, Bigs right now just set picks. How is Froling going to get the ball in this offense right now???
Pick and pop? I've never seen Froling play so all I know about him is what I've read here. I don't know if he has a post-up game but it sounds like he can shoot so that will be up to Wojo to incorporate that skill set into the offense.
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Matt has what, two points in the last two games? Where is Sand Knit when we need him.
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Yes, he will contribute but he will unlikely move this team to another level. Believe we need 9 wins in BE. Not sure how we get there.
That is my concern.
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Matt has what, two points in the last two games? Where is Sand Knit when we need him.
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/e3b615a1ba126799756aeb95143024ee/tenor.gif?itemid=5962842)
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Any other December additions made a huge difference over the years? Offhand can’t think of any.
I think Luke did. Its true that team was destined to be bad but Luke pretty much singled handedly won the Az St game. There are a couple of other games that season we likely lose without him. If Froling makes enough of a difference to change 2 Ls to Ws that would be a big difference in how this season is likely to be viewed.
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No, hey? ‘til Wojo recruits some low post playas who can score and defend, his ass is gonna always bee handed to ‘im on a platter like it wuz today.
Froling, Morrow, Joey, Theo, Ike, and Bailey say hi. I don't know if they will be post players, but they will have the size to defend the post.
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Pick and pop? I've never seen Froling play so all I know about him is what I've read here. I don't know if he has a post-up game but it sounds like he can shoot so that will be up to Wojo to incorporate that skill set into the offense.
So Joey is not a pick and pop guy?
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Joey is a taller version of Sam.
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Froling doesn't need to be a world beater to make a big difference. I'd be very happy with 7-9 ppg and 5+rpg in 23-25 min. A consistent fourth scorer and 5 more fouls at the 4/5 would help a lot.
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Froling doesn't need to be a world beater to make a big difference. I'd be very happy with 7-9 ppg and 5+rpg in 23-25 min. A consistent fourth scorer and 5 more fouls at the 4/5 would help a lot.
What will Bailey bring?
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Joey is a taller version of Sam.
Pretty close. Sam a better shooter, Joey a little more athletic. Joey also needs to get in the weight room to fill out like Sam.
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I think Luke did. Its true that team was destined to be bad but Luke pretty much singled handedly won the Az St game. There are a couple of other games that season we likely lose without him. If Froling makes enough of a difference to change 2 Ls to Ws that would be a big difference in how this season is likely to be viewed.
Anyone who doesn't think Luke made a difference is out of touch. Froling will be a difference maker in that we have a big that should be more competent scoring the ball, someone who can spell Heldt/John or even play alongside them. It always helps to have bigs back.
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What will Bailey bring?
I'm expecting he'll need a year to shake the rust off. Size and skill set similar to the Hausers but not quite as good, which is more of a compliment to Sam and Joey than a knock on Brendan.
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What will Bailey bring?
In high school, he was a very good shooter, wing player. Was Reggie Miller skinny, but has gained 20 lbs of muscle after a 2 year mission. Needs to get to MU as soon
as possible this summer to remember how to play competitive basketball again. Could be the X factor next year, as you could see Anim, and Cain really have not shown
they can shoot the ball yet. He is also tall. Great size for a wing.
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Yes, Froling will be a difference maker. I expect him to challenge Matt and Theo for minutes. The competition will be good for all 3 post players — and help keep them fresh and out of foul trouble. Harry should also give Wojo more flexibility to put the right players on the floor at the right time.
From the scouting reports I've seen, Froling is known as a good rebounder and skilled scorer. And that was before he lost 50 pounds. Of the three, I won't be surprised if Harry scores the most points by season's end. I think Theo will end up being the best overall post defender, rebounder and shot blocker. As the most experienced player, Matt will probably get the most minutes. Who's the best passer/screener? Not sure at this point.
So likely a three-headed monster. I'm okay with that for now. To me, Heldt/John/Froling represents an upgrade in talent from Fischer/Heldt. Not a huge difference on the court right away, but a significantly higher ceiling.
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I don't know. I hope so. If he is a poor man's Henry and can rebound and play some defense, he will be a huge lift. If he is just a body, then nothing changes. Having a 10th body and another option on offense would have been nice today.
Make up your freaking mind! Will it not matter, or will it be nice??
I think it'll be nice. JMHO.
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My heart says difference maker. My head is skeptical.
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My heart says difference maker. My head is skeptical.
I think he will be able to help spread the court offensively. As for defense and rebounding it’s hard to say as his game seems to be below the rim. We shall see.
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Yes, Froling will be a difference maker. I expect him to challenge Matt and Theo for minutes. The competition will be good for all 3 post players — and help keep them fresh and out of foul trouble. Harry should also give Wojo more flexibility to put the right players on the floor at the right time.
From the scouting reports I've seen, Froling is known as a good rebounder and skilled scorer. And that was before he lost 50 pounds. Of the three, I won't be surprised if Harry scores the most points by season's end. I think Theo will end up being the best overall post defender, rebounder and shot blocker. As the most experienced player, Matt will probably get the most minutes. Who's the best passer/screener? Not sure at this point.
So likely a three-headed monster. I'm okay with that for now. To me, Heldt/John/Froling represents an upgrade in talent from Fischer/Heldt. Not a huge difference on the court right away, but a significantly higher ceiling.
I'm not sure if there's a single part of this that I would agree with. For starters, let's not act like not having a clear go-to big guy makes the trio a triple threat of some kind. Theo is as green as it gets and looks lost more often than not. Heldt has shown some instances where he gets it, but he's seriously outmatched in the conference. Froling has improved his body since last year, but he's still a guy that was only putting up 4 points a game at SMU last year. Having depth at the 4/5 is only going to help because our current bigs are foul machines that are more likely to foul out than score 10 points.
I was never the biggest fan of Luke, but this year's lineup is in no way more talented than last year's. It's not even close. The biggest upside to having Froling active will be allowing Sam to get out of the 4 spot and stay out on the wing for more of the game. We don't need to have him playing with his back to the basket any more.
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I'm not sure if there's a single part of this that I would agree with. For starters, let's not act like not having a clear go-to big guy makes the trio a triple threat of some kind. Theo is as green as it gets and looks lost more often than not. Heldt has shown some instances where he gets it, but he's seriously outmatched in the conference. Froling has improved his body since last year, but he's still a guy that was only putting up 4 points a game at SMU last year. Having depth at the 4/5 is only going to help because our current bigs are foul machines that are more likely to foul out than score 10 points.
I was never the biggest fan of Luke, but this year's lineup is in no way more talented than last year's. It's not even close. The biggest upside to having Froling active will be allowing Sam to get out of the 4 spot and stay out on the wing for more of the game. We don't need to have him playing with his back to the basket any more.
Agree fully with your last comment. Sam on the wing will make him shine. Concerning Fish, he was one of our better big men in recent years who was severely hampered by a bad shoulder. The sad part is even an often injured Fish is the best we had. When do we get a Delgado type Big? Apparently we can not attract what we have needed for so many years. Also, how about a true point gurad? We have two outstanding shooting guards but players ...
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Froling will help the interior scoring but not in the way you think. He can shoot from outside and will draw some of the trees away from the rim, clearing out room for the guards to attack
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Maybe the announcers will stop referring to MU as a bunch of little guys for a change
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No, hey? ‘til Wojo recruits some low post playas who can score and defend, his ass is gonna always bee handed to ‘im on a platter like it wuz today.
Do you add anything but your stupid schtick. Jerry the frickin dentist. Is your boy Looney playing yet?
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My heart says difference maker. My head is skeptical.
Same! But at worst, the extra big man will be a welcome piece. At best, he's an improvement over what we currently have, and turns a couple/few 50/50 games into wins.
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No, hey? ‘til Wojo recruits some low post playas who can score and defend, his ass is gonna always bee handed to ‘im on a platter like it wuz today.
Froling gives us 5 more fouls against the good teams but not much else defensively. He will score a lot against the cupcakes . I guess the question is can he score against a good team and we will find that out in conference play.
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Yes, Froling will be a difference maker. I expect him to challenge Matt and Theo for minutes. The competition will be good for all 3 post players — and help keep them fresh and out of foul trouble. Harry should also give Wojo more flexibility to put the right players on the floor at the right time.
If he is not better than Theo after having a year in the system, it spells trouble.
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Ted
What does your bashing 4ever add to this post? The man knows ball at high level and your response is a waste of space. Is 4ever wrong or are you just being an a-hole?
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If he is not better than Theo after having a year in the system, it spells trouble.
Theo is one of those guys that is going to be an absolute monster as an upperclassman. Jalen Reynolds on X a few years ago type.
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Ted
What does your bashing 4ever add to this post? The man knows ball at high level and your response is a waste of space. Is 4ever wrong or are you just being an a-hole?
I'm being an a-hole, but if he knows what he's talking about, I want him saying it in something other than Sheboyganese.
Has he seen Froling to make the judgement? I don't know, I watch as much video of a player to try to make a judgement. Froling is skilled and is fundamentally sound. He was a step slow covering out on the perimeter last year against Michigan's mobil big guys, but he has a skill level that neither Matt Heldt and Theo John have on the offensive end. I want to see him now that he's lost the weight.
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I'm not sure if there's a single part of this that I would agree with. For starters, let's not act like not having a clear go-to big guy makes the trio a triple threat of some kind. Theo is as green as it gets and looks lost more often than not.
Theo is definitely a work in progress. But he's big, athletic and a strong presence inside. Looks quicker to me than Matt and a better rebounder (seems to have a good feel for positioning) and shot blocker. It's clear he doesn't offer much on the offensive end right now. The biggest problem is fouls, which I expect will improve as he learns the scheme and gets more time on the court. We'll have to see.
Heldt has shown some instances where he gets it, but he's seriously outmatched in the conference.
I could be basing too much on his play at the end of last season. But he earned his minutes and helped the team down the stretch to make the tournament. He's never going to be one of best big men in the Big East. But he's shown that he can be a competent one. The question is can he do it consistently. If Theo and Harry do their part, he won't have to carry as much of the load.
Froling has improved his body since last year, but he's still a guy that was only putting up 4 points a game at SMU last year.
True, at this point, Froling is a question mark. But so was Luke before he saw the court with Marquette. Harry was a consensus 4-star recruit (like Luke) and on the radar of pro scouts. SMU was also an NCAA tournament team with a veteran front court (including one forward who's now in the NBA). No big surprise that Harry didn't get much playing time, especially given his poor conditioning. I don't think Wojo and the coaching staff brought him to campus for 4 ppg. Again, we'll see.
Having depth at the 4/5 is only going to help because our current bigs are foul machines that are more likely to foul out than score 10 points.
In 4 games so far, Heldt and John have played a combined 145 minutes (36.3 mpg). Between them, they've put up an average of 8.3 points, 7.8 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 0.8 steals, 1.3 blocks and 8 fouls per game. Clearly, they need to play better against top competition. We'll face teams as good as Purdue and Wichita State in conference play. I think rebounding will be just fine. I don't expect a big improvement in scoring. That's where Harry can help — and with the fouls, as you mentioned.
This front court likely won't match last year's for offensive production. But I do think it's already better on the defensive end (KenPom.com would seem to back this up). I see that as a bigger need for the team. As a young team, they'll have to get better every game along the way.
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Yes he will make a difference.
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Yes, Froling will be a difference maker. I expect him to challenge Matt and Theo for minutes. The competition will be good for all 3 post players — and help keep them fresh and out of foul trouble. Harry should also give Wojo more flexibility to put the right players on the floor at the right time.
From the scouting reports I've seen, Froling is known as a good rebounder and skilled scorer. And that was before he lost 50 pounds. Of the three, I won't be surprised if Harry scores the most points by season's end. I think Theo will end up being the best overall post defender, rebounder and shot blocker. As the most experienced player, Matt will probably get the most minutes. Who's the best passer/screener? Not sure at this point.
So likely a three-headed monster. I'm okay with that for now. To me, Heldt/John/Froling represents an upgrade in talent from Fischer/Heldt. Not a huge difference on the court right away, but a significantly higher ceiling.
If that is true, then we'll be dancing.
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We need a Robert Jackson type who can run the floor. Froling may be a hybrid and that would be GREAT! So far, our biggest weakness is under our own glass. Very few/no 2nd chances. Missed shots almost become turnovers
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I might be in the minority, but I believe he will make a difference. At this point, Matt is not ready to be an everyday contributor against top teams. He has a long to go, IMO and am skeptical if he ever gets to a level of being anything beyond a ten minute a night backup. I have fingers crossed on Froling.
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I'm going to say this once. (since I said it 100 times with Rowsey)
He didn't transfer here to ride the pine. He will be an improvement. He will play big minutes.
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What will Bailey bring?
The Book of Mormon
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Froling will help the interior scoring but not in the way you think. He can shoot from outside and will draw some of the trees away from the rim, clearing out room for the guards to attack
This. He's got a darn good shot. I perceive him as a face up, not back to the basket guy. He played well in the season tix private practice if I'm remembering my history correctly. I don't think he played in the UWM charity event.
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We need a Robert Jackson type who can run the floor. Froling may be a hybrid and that would be GREAT! So far, our biggest weakness is under our own glass. Very few/no 2nd chances. Missed shots almost become turnovers
We had 15 offensive rebounds against VCU.
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We had 15 offensive rebounds against VCU.
+1. Rebounding is sooooo much better than last year. Please don't judge based on PU or WSU. No team will rebound against PU.
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+1. Rebounding is sooooo much better than last year. Please don't judge based on PU or WSU. No team will rebound against PU.
Also worth noting we have played two top 10 teams (I'm convinced Purdue will finish in Top 10 baring injury) out of four of our games and we were largely competitive in those two games. Does Froling make a difference in those games, unsure but he will make a difference generally or he wouldn't be here.
Purdue and WSU are the toughest teams we play outside of Nova(who's probably the best on our schedule) and likely Seton Hall, and we were competitive without Froling....add Froling and as long as he can protect the rim better than Heldt while being competent on PnR we will be better on both ends of the floor. I'm more confident than ever that we finish in the top half of the Big East this season(baring significant injury of course).
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I might be in the minority, but I believe he will make a difference. At this point, Matt is not ready to be an everyday contributor against top teams. He has a long to go, IMO and am skeptical if he ever gets to a level of being anything beyond a ten minute a night backup. I have fingers crossed on Froling.
Put me in that minority too. I'm hoping for Froling to be Henry light. I have no doubts the staff recruited him with that kind of role in mind.
A 20-30 minute, 10/6 type guy that can both take it inside and also step out to hit the occasional three. While I don't expect all Big East, I do think that type of player is exactly what we need to take pressure off the shooters and keep defenses honest inside. If he can play a lick of defense while posing some offensive threat at the 4/5, I think it significantly increases our ceiling.
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Put me in that minority too. I'm hoping for Froling to be Henry light. I have no doubts the staff recruited him with that kind of role in mind.
A 20-30 minute, 10/6 type guy that can both take it inside and also step out to hit the occasional three. While I don't expect all Big East, I do think that type of player is exactly what we need to take pressure off the shooters and keep defenses honest inside. If he can play a lick of defense while posing some offensive threat at the 4/5, I think it significantly increases our ceiling.
I'm with you in your take. From what I've read good midrange & decent 3. What I expect when at the 5 he wont be a back to the basket player I see him near or close to FT line, then teams take their poison don't guard him and he makes easy 2, guard him your 5 will be out of position for penetrations and/ or off rebounds by Sam/Anim/Cheats. I can also see him moving to the 4 giving Sam rest and Theo playing the 5 with Cain or Elliot in. Right now in non cupcake games if either Cain/Elliot on floor Theo is usually out as we would be too inexperienced.
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I'm with you in your take. From what I've read good midrange & decent 3. What I expect when at the 5 he wont be a back to the basket player I see him near or close to FT line, then teams take their poison don't guard him and he makes easy 2, guard him your 5 will be out of position for penetrations and/ or off rebounds by Sam/Anim/Cheats. I can also see him moving to the 4 giving Sam rest and Theo playing the 5 with Cain or Elliot in. Right now in non cupcake games if either Cain/Elliot on floor Theo is usually out as we would be too inexperienced.
Based on the STH scrimmage last month, Harry will be more out wide. But, definitely not a back to the basket guy.
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We had 15 offensive rebounds against VCU.
i was referring mainly to the purdue game-6 offensive boards. seemed like we were 1 and done-A LOT
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+1. Rebounding is sooooo much better than last year. Please don't judge based on PU or WSU. No team will rebound against PU.
just saw your post glow after my response to vander-i can heed your advice-you know i'm rootin' for them
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Froling will absolutely be a difference maker. There's no question. I contend that he'll be the starting C sooner rather than later. Just adds so much more than Matt, especially now that he's lost the weight.
A small ball lineup of Rowsey, Howard, Elliot/Anim, Hauser, Froling could be a nightmare for opposing defenses come BE play. The room that Froling's shooting will create will give all of those guys much easier shots than the circus shots Markus and Rowsey had to hit against WSU. Interested to see his moves down low and what he's developed in the last year. And I'm curious to see a John/Froling 4/5 if we need to match the size of Nova, Seton Hall, etc. But we'll see.
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Frolings Achilles heel is his defense. Was really bad against bad opponents last season. Limited sample size but it is a concern.
I could see a lineup of Markus, Rowdy, Sammy, Harry, and Theo being really fun. Four shooters and Tarzan under the hoop. Harry could guard the five and I think Theo might be quick enough to cover the four
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Frolings Achilles heel is his defense. Was really bad against bad opponents last season. Limited sample size but it is a concern.
I could see a lineup of Markus, Rowdy, Sammy, Harry, and Theo being really fun. Four shooters and Tarzan under the hoop. Harry could guard the five and I think Theo might be quick enough to cover the four
He'll fit right in...we ain't defending anything in the paint so far any way. We need his scoring and five fouls more than his defense.