So much for the BS about a WAC WCC team having a virgin's chance in hell at playing for a Natty.
IOW: Who the fook needs the Big East?
No WAC team is playing for a national championship.
Jesuit hoops, come get some.
I would be supportive of a Jesuit pre-season tourney in a neutral location more so than a a west coast team in the Beast.
WCC Team.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 01, 2017, 07:28:38 PM
No WAC team is playing for a national championship.
Imma gonna go ahead and blame autocorrect. Seems like I'm working from the same glossary as 4ever.
Point remains notwithstanding the typo.
Gonzaga to the Big East talk will not stop until either:
1. Gonzaga fades to a normal mid-major
2. Big East implodes
3. Gonzaga joins the Big East
#3 might be the most likely option.
The Big East is tough enough now without Gonzaga.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on April 01, 2017, 07:54:35 PM
The Big East is tough enough now without Gonzaga.
Certainly so, but a league with three perennial national title contenders (Nova, Gonzaga, and Marquette) is a league that people pay attention to. More eyeballs, better recruits, more exposure. Cant hurt!
That said, Gonzaga to the Big East make sense for exactly one sport: basketball. But, if we can make a one-sport arrangement with faraway Denver, why not Gonzaga?
You are talking about no name changes, no resurrection of football, no obsession over former coaches. No scoop. No rocky. No hilltopper. No Ners. No Benny B. No ban hammer.
An implosion in our little basketball world. A Hiroshima of epic proportions. We must discuss in order to exist. We must.
Do Mike Deanes Dark Glasses still see if there is no scoop to see?
Quote from: Benny B on April 01, 2017, 07:46:10 PM
Imma gonna go ahead and blame autocorrect. Seems like I'm working from the same glossary as 4ever.
Point remains notwithstanding the typo.
fukin's gott dem werdz in da dicshunairy, fone compleetin' sentensez, ai na?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2017, 07:47:35 PM
Gonzaga to the Big East talk will not stop until either:
1. Gonzaga fades to a normal mid-major
2. Big East implodes
3. Gonzaga joins the Big East
#3 might be the most likely option.
Once Few moves or or retires, they likely will fade back to just being a good mid major. I'd add them to the BE, but they will immediately become a mid tier BE team.
Quote from: Eldon on April 01, 2017, 08:42:44 PM
fukin's gott dem werdz in da dicshunairy, fone compleetin' sentensez, ai na?
Very Myron Metcalf of you eldon. ;D
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 08:49:21 PM
Once Few moves or or retires, they likely will fade back to just being a good mid major. I'd add them to the BE, but they will immediately become a mid tier BE team.
Depends who the next coach is too.
If you can convince at least a good recruiter to come the name brand will still matter
You all do realize there's more than basketball involved in a conference move. You really think MU is going to send the tennis teams to Spokane, St. John's their baseball team to Spokane or GUntheir soccer team to Georgetown and South Orange every year?
Besides, the WCC is better than the Big East in sports like Volleyball, Baseball and Women's Soccer.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:43:45 PM
You all do realize there's more than basketball involved in a conference move. You really think MU is going to send the tennis teams to Spokane, St. John's their baseball team to Spokane or GUntheir soccer team to Georgetown and South Orange every year?
Besides, the WCC is better than the Big East in sports like Volleyball, Baseball and Women's Soccer.
It's definitely not better in volleyball than the BE is.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:43:45 PM
You all do realize there's more than basketball involved in a conference move. You really think MU is going to send the tennis teams to Spokane, St. John's their baseball team to Spokane or GUntheir soccer team to Georgetown and South Orange every year?
Besides, the WCC is better than the Big East in sports like Volleyball, Baseball and Women's Soccer.
Could theoretically do it for basketball only.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 01, 2017, 09:45:12 PM
It's definitely not better in volleyball than the BE is.
Last year the WCC dropped to 5 in the RPI, the BE was 9th. WCC regularly gets multiple teams into the tourney, led by BYU and USD. It isn't close.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 09:52:10 PM
Could theoretically do it for basketball only.
The NCAA rules don't allow that. Football is the only exception.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:54:39 PM
The NCAA rules don't allow that. Football is the only exception.
Sounds unconstitutional, but nobody has the BB'same to take on the NCAA.
Quote from: vogue65 on April 01, 2017, 09:58:28 PM
Sounds unconstitutional, but nobody has the BB'same to take on the NCAA.
What's "unconstitutional " about it? It's a private voluntary membership organization.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:54:39 PM
The NCAA rules don't allow that. Football is the only exception.
Ehhhh. Don't think that is true. Plenty of other sports have teams that are conference members for certain sports.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 10:01:27 PM
Ehhhh. Don't think that is true. Plenty of other sports have teams that are conference members for certain sports.
That's definitely true. The schools that have single teams in certain conferences (e.g. Denver for lacrosse) are only allowed because their primary conference doesn't have that sport.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:53:46 PM
Last year the WCC dropped to 5 in the RPI, the BE was 9th. WCC regularly gets multiple teams into the tourney, led by BYU and USD. It isn't close.
Kind of like Marquette and Creighton in the BE?
The RPI is even worse in women's volleyball than it is in men's basketball. BYU completely carries the WCC in women's volleyball, maybe even more so than Gonzaga does men's basketball.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 01, 2017, 10:08:51 PM
Kind of like Marquette and Creighton in the BE?
The RPI is even worse in women's volleyball than it is in men's basketball. BYU completely carries the WCC in women's volleyball, maybe even more so than Gonzaga does men's basketball.
Unlike MU and Creighton, BYU and USD are nationally ranked and make deep NCAA runs regularly.
I'm not sure how being 5th (3rd a few years ago) is worse than 9th. Certainly you didn't thskebthe same MU math courses I did if you think that.
Quote from: MUFlutieEffect on April 01, 2017, 10:08:19 PM
That's definitely true. The schools that have single teams in certain conferences (e.g. Denver for lacrosse) are only allowed because their primary conference doesn't have that sport.
Gotcha
Quote from: Benny B on April 01, 2017, 07:24:54 PM
So much for the BS about a WAC WCC team having a virgin's chance in hell at playing for a Natty.
IOW: Who the fook needs the Big East?
More Benny B brilliance, getting a thread about Gonzaga joining the Big East started by asking if "Can we finally end the Gonzaga to Big East talk?"
this makes no sense. Gonzaga's travel bill for all sports would increase dramatically. Same for current BE schools. I'm not sure why we're not trying to poach Wichita St and Dayton. I'd love SLU, but they've been bad for a few years now
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 08:49:21 PM
Once Few moves or or retires, they likely will fade back to just being a good mid major. I'd add them to the BE, but they will immediately become a mid tier BE team.
Just a guess, but I think Few will be at Gonzaga longer than Wojo is at Marquette.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 08:49:21 PM
Once Few moves or or retires, they likely will fade back to just being a good mid major. I'd add them to the BE, but they will immediately become a mid tier BE team.
Pretty silly speculation.
1. Mark Few is 54. He very might coach at Gonzaga for 15-20 more years. He has absolutely no reason to leave voluntarily, and the school has absolutely no reason to want somebody else.
2. Maybe after he leaves, they actually get somebody better. Just as they got somebody better after Dan Fitzgerald left in '97 (Dan Monson) and then after Monson left in '99 (Few).
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 10:37:13 PM
Unlike MU and Creighton, BYU and USD are nationally ranked and make deep NCAA runs regularly.
I'm not sure how being 5th (3rd a few years ago) is worse than 9th. Certainly you didn't thskebthe same MU math courses I did if you think that.
And you obviously didn't "thskebthe" same MU English courses I did.
Once again, the RPI for women's volleyball is even worse than the RPI is for men's basketball. And that's saying something.
USD has made the Sweet Sixteen once in the last decade and has not made it past the Sweet Sixteen at all. Once again maybe we were just taking different English courses at MU, but in my vocabulary that is not "making deep NCAA Tournament runs regularly." Creighton has gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice in the last 2 years, including the Elite Eight last year.
As I said, BYU carries that conference, even more so than Gonzaga carries their men's basketball conference, which once again is saying something.
Not to mention, none of that matters. Basketball is the only sport that brings in money, so if Gonzaga decided it was worth it to join the BE for men's basketball they literally wouldn't even consider how it could hurt the chances of their other sports teams succeeding in terms of NCAA Tournament chances. They wouldn't think for one second about how good or bad women's basketball, soccer (men's or women's), lacrosse, track and field, or volleyball are in the Big East. Basketball is all that would matter, just like even bad football schools like UCONN don't even consider what problems their conference affiliations might have on their outstanding men's basketball program.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 02, 2017, 01:13:31 AM
USD has made the Sweet Sixteen once in the last decade and has not made it past the Sweet Sixteen at all. Once again maybe we were just taking different English courses at MU, but in my vocabulary that is not "making deep NCAA Tournament runs regularly." Creighton has gone to the Sweet Sixteen twice in the last 2 years, including the Elite Eight last year.[/b
This certainly is not true.
Quote from: Aughnanure on April 02, 2017, 08:42:17 AM
This certainly is not true.
They are talking about women's volleyball, where it most certainly is true.
Quote from: Aughnanure on April 02, 2017, 08:42:17 AM
This certainly is not true.
You're like a child who wanders into the middle of a movie
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on April 01, 2017, 09:52:10 PM
Could theoretically do it for basketball only.
Theoretically? I suppose so. But never in the real world.
What do you think Marquette and the rest of the Big East would say if Villanova came to them saying, "Hey, we got a sweetheart deal to play Men's BB in the ACC, but they don't want out other sports. Would you mind if we leave them in the Big East?"
I think I know what they'd say. And I'm pretty sure the WCC would say the same if Gonzaga tried to pull MBB out of the conference and leave the rest behind. Gonzaga's MBB is the single biggest asset in the WCC, and obviously GU's biggest asset. I suspect it would be awfully hard to find a conference home for their other sports if MBB was carved out of the deal.
It isn't even theoretically possible. muguru referenced this article on another board regarding Wichita State.
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/19042825/wichita-state-shockers-eyes-2017-move-american-athletic-conference
"The Shockers would make the move only if their 15 sports were added to the AAC. Under NCAA rules, a non-football playing member has to add all of its sports to the league."
Conference realignment is all about the Benjamins. Right now the Benjamins doesn't work for Gonzaga to the big east. In the future they might. The talk will never die
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 02, 2017, 11:41:34 AM
Conference realignment is all about the Benjamins. Right now the Benjamins doesn't work for Gonzaga to the big east. In the future they might. The talk will never die
The only feasible way to bring Gonzaga on board is for the WCC and Big East to merge and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 01, 2017, 09:43:45 PM
You all do realize there's more than basketball involved in a conference move. You really think MU is going to send the tennis teams to Spokane, St. John's their baseball team to Spokane or GUntheir soccer team to Georgetown and South Orange every year?
Besides, the WCC is better than the Big East in sports like Volleyball, Baseball and Women's Soccer.
So they just add basketball? Like Denver did with LA Crosse.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on April 02, 2017, 12:24:59 PM
So they just add basketball? Like Denver did with LA Crosse.
From four posts above yours.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=54152.msg921425#msg921425
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 02, 2017, 11:51:39 AM
The only feasible way to bring Gonzaga on board is for the WCC and Big East to merge and I don't see that happening anytime soon.
I don't think its quite that drastic. But I agree that Gonzaga won't be joining us anytime soon. Maybe in 7 to 10 years. Not saying it will happen, just its the soonest I think it could.
The reality is, the Big East is the top basketball only conference. Gonzaga is the top basketball only program not in the Big East. Until one of those things is no longer true, the talking heads and fans will speculate on how Gonzaga could join the Big East.
If Denver University had a Gonzaga like program, this would be a no-brainer and likely already done. Unfortunately the extra bit of geographical isolation makes it that much harder.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 03, 2017, 09:57:57 AM
If Denver University had a Gonzaga like program, this would be a no-brainer and likely already done. Unfortunately the extra bit of geographical isolation makes it that much harder.
I've always thought Denver could be a future option for big east expansion. They have the money, the academics, the metro area, and are dominant in every sport but basketball. If they invest heavily in basketball I could see them growing into a viable candidate. Boston University has the same profile. This is way down the road of course.
What if Gonzaga brought BYU with them?
Also, I truly don't understand the travel costs argument from a Big East perspective. That is Gonzaga's problem. If they were interested in joining, why would that be an issue for the rest of the Big East? If that ultimately meant they would say no to invite, that is one thing, but if they are willing, why do we give a rip about their travel costs? Not to mention the fact they would more than make it up with TV revenue.
Until a free teleportation device is invented, the logistics of Gonzaga simply don't work.
Quote from: tower912 on April 03, 2017, 11:25:47 AM
Until a free teleportation device is invented, the logistics of Gonzaga simply don't work.
The high school my wife teaches in has a map hanging up outside the Guidance Office titled
Colleges of the USA. I pointed out where Gonzaga was to my kids over the weekend on the map and I got "that's in the middle nowhere!" reaction.
Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2017, 11:10:08 AM
What if Gonzaga brought BYU with them?
Also, I truly don't understand the travel costs argument from a Big East perspective. That is Gonzaga's problem. If they were interested in joining, why would that be an issue for the rest of the Big East? If that ultimately meant they would say no to invite, that is one thing, but if they are willing, why do we give a rip about their travel costs? Not to mention the fact they would more than make it up with TV revenue.
At that point, if you're adding schools with a football program, you might as well just bring UCONN back. It'd also make more sense geographically.
Quote from: tower912 on April 03, 2017, 11:25:47 AM
Until a free teleportation device is invented, the logistics of Gonzaga simply don't work.
You hit that on the head my man.
Quote from: tower912 on April 03, 2017, 11:25:47 AM
Until a free teleportation device is invented, the logistics of Gonzaga simply don't work.
Cheap flight from MKE to Omaha is currently $310.
Cheap flight from MKE to Spokane for same dates is $360.
Granted there are soft costs in total travel time, and other factors, but if the benefits outweigh the costs, it's not insurmountable. What I have a hard time seeing is where Fox would pony up enough to make it a net benefit.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 03, 2017, 11:53:34 AM
At that point, if you're adding schools with a football program, you might as well just bring UCONN back. It'd also make more sense geographically.
Except UCONN plays football in the same conference that they play basketball in. BYU does not. Apples and oranges.
Quote from: barfolomew on April 03, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
Cheap flight from MKE to Omaha is currently $310.
Cheap flight from MKE to Spokane for same dates is $360.
Granted there are soft costs in total travel time, and other factors, but if the benefits outweigh the costs, it's not insurmountable. What I have a hard time seeing is where Fox would pony up enough to make it a net benefit.
This
Quote from: 4everCrean on April 01, 2017, 11:16:56 PM
More Benny B brilliance, getting a thread about Gonzaga joining the Big East started by asking if "Can we finally end the Gonzaga to Big East talk?"
Sometimes I amaze even myself.
The point I was trying to make is being made by just about everyone in this thread... whether pro or con-Zaga, all y'all are assuming that Gonzaga
wants to join the Big East.
If you asked someone from Gonzaga 45 days ago
why they would want to join the Big East, the #1 answer - by far - would be along the lines of increased competition/improved RPI/better standing/higher tourney seeding/more respect/greater exposure. Sure, Gonzaga is a household name in March, but the general sentiment about them is the NCAA equivalent of Tony Romo... overall, they turn in great performances over the season and are always competitive, but unfortunately, what the general public tends to remember most about them is their lack of success beyond the first weekend.
Look at it this way: you could assemble the greatest rocket scientists in the world, but if you relegate them to an aging municipal airport in eastern Wash, they're never going to reach the stars. On the other hand, think of the Big East as Cape Canaveral... sure, it doesn't quite have the luster today that it did decades ago, but it's still the preeminent spaceport in the US and its resources/infrastructure is capable of setting you on course to anywhere you want to go.
Now... not only have the Zags now appeared in a championship game as a 1-seed, they took UNC to the wire and had a chance to win in regulation on the last possession. I don't see how anyone can deem that a failed post-season or a "fluke" performance. Sure, they need to get over the hump of actually winning a natty eventually, but for the foreseeable future, they will be getting much more of the exposure and respect they have deserved for quite a while now... and rest assured, they're going to use that to build one hell of a launching pad up there in Pac NW.
Whatever the benefits were of joining the Big East, Gonzaga did for themselves this year.
Quote from: Benny B on April 04, 2017, 09:53:05 AM
Now... not only have the Zags now appeared in a championship game as a 1-seed, they took UNC to the wire and had a chance to win in regulation on the last possession. I don't see how anyone can deem that a failed post-season or a "fluke" performance.
One of my co-workers - a UNC fan - said last night's game was proof that Gonzaga was overrated and didn't deserve a one-seed. :o
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 04, 2017, 10:23:52 AM
One of my co-workers - a UNC fan - said last night's game was proof that Gonzaga was overrated and didn't deserve a one-seed. :o
I'm very curious who he thought deserved the one seeds then.
Quote from: barfolomew on April 03, 2017, 12:33:54 PM
Cheap flight from MKE to Omaha is currently $310.
Cheap flight from MKE to Spokane for same dates is $360.
Granted there are soft costs in total travel time, and other factors, but if the benefits outweigh the costs, it's not insurmountable. What I have a hard time seeing is where Fox would pony up enough to make it a net benefit.
But how many flights are available to Spokane? Few direct flights from LAX when I was doing business there. By the way, Nowhere is a destination from western Washington.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 04, 2017, 10:23:52 AM
One of my co-workers - a UNC fan - said last night's game was proof that Gonzaga was overrated and didn't deserve a one-seed. :o
I always get a kick out of the "you know that other team that almost beat us... they really suck" argument.
Quote from: Benny B on April 04, 2017, 11:05:18 AM
I always get a kick out of the "you know that other team that almost beat us... they really suck" argument.
He was funny. Started the conversation talking about how badly UNC played, and specifically referenced the missed FTs. When I mentioned that they were pretty fortunate that Karnowski had a really off night and missed a lot of shots (which I think UNC does deserve
some credit for) he launched into his rant of how overrated Gonzaga is and how they didn't deserve the No. 1. I just laughed and explained that it's pretty hard to argue that a team didn't deserve the No. 1 seed when they make it to the final game and take it down to the wire.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 03, 2017, 10:53:12 AM
I've always thought Denver could be a future option for big east expansion. They have the money, the academics, the metro area, and are dominant in every sport but basketball. If they invest heavily in basketball I could see them growing into a viable candidate. Boston University has the same profile. This is way down the road of course.
Selfishly, I've been hoping for this ever since they got added in Lacrosse. A few years ago, it looked like DU's basketball program was starting to get off the ground for the first time in a long time, but they've fizzled in the Summit League. I'm not quite sure why they've never seemed to make basketball a priority, especially since rejoining D1 20 years ago.
Obviously, they've been a great addition in Lacrosse, and the rest of their sports are decent to great depending on the sport.
As you mention, in terms of institutional fit, I think they'd fit in well, and would bring a big media market in one of the fastest growing cities in the country.
Likely, though, the only way I can see this happening is if there was a major seismic shift in college athletics that meant that the BE needed to drastically expand its footprint. I don't think it makes sense now, but who knows what things look like in 10-20 years. But, they could be a good school to have on the radar (an Lacrosse certainly helps that!); they could actually help be that bridge to a school like Gonzaga, especially if it made sense to have an East/West division set up.
But, this is really just a selfish pipe dream for me to be able to watch MU here in Denver once a year, and not a likely reality (nor an optimal one, unless they really up their bball game).
Quote from: Coleman on April 03, 2017, 11:10:08 AM
What if Gonzaga brought BYU with them?
Also, I truly don't understand the travel costs argument from a Big East perspective. That is Gonzaga's problem. If they were interested in joining, why would that be an issue for the rest of the Big East? If that ultimately meant they would say no to invite, that is one thing, but if they are willing, why do we give a rip about their travel costs? Not to mention the fact they would more than make it up with TV revenue.
To double the travel difficulties?
Quote from: MUMountin on April 04, 2017, 11:41:08 AM
Selfishly, I've been hoping for this ever since they got added in Lacrosse. A few years ago, it looked like DU's basketball program was starting to get off the ground for the first time in a long time, but they've fizzled in the Summit League. I'm not quite sure why they've never seemed to make basketball a priority, especially since rejoining D1 20 years ago.
In 1996 UD hired Joel Maturi who was an assistant AD at Wisconsin as their AD. He wanted to hire UW-Platteville's Bo Ryan but the Chancellor didn't approve. Imagine the what-if there.
Quote from: Benny B on April 04, 2017, 09:53:05 AM
Whatever the benefits were of joining the Big East, Gonzaga did for themselves this year.
Except the most important benefit: $$$$. Is the money ever made sense for both parties, Gonzaga would join the big east. Right now it doesn't for at least one of the parties. Will that change? Who knows?
Quote from: The Lens on April 04, 2017, 12:09:19 PM
In 1996 UD hired Joel Maturi who was an assistant AD at Wisconsin as their AD. He wanted to hire UW-Platteville's Bo Ryan but the Chancellor didn't approve. Imagine the what-if there.
He'da been banging broads while wearing snowshoes?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2017, 07:47:35 PM
Gonzaga to the Big East talk will not stop until either:
1. Gonzaga fades to a normal mid-major
2. Big East implodes
3. Gonzaga joins the Big East
#3 might be the most likely option.
Zags have no interest in logging frequent flyer miles. They are happy where they are. Only folks brining it up are here.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 05, 2017, 12:03:02 AM
Zags have no interest in logging frequent flyer miles. They are happy where they are. Only folks brining it up are here.
Again. Didn't say it was going to happen. Just that the talk will continue until 1 of those three things happens.
The bolded isn't true. It might be true right this second, which should be expected considering Gonzaga has been pretty preoccupied during March. But prior to that, it got brought up on ZagScoop a lot more often than it did here.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 12:47:17 AM
The bolded isn't true. It might be true right this second, which should be expected considering Gonzaga has been pretty preoccupied during March. But prior to that, it got brought up on ZagScoop a lot more often than it did here.
And did it come up in the context of, "Can you believe that some idiots over on MUScoop think that we could move to the Big East?!"
I kid. I kid.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2017, 07:47:35 PM
Gonzaga to the Big East talk will not stop until either:
1. Gonzaga fades to a normal mid-major
2. Big East implodes
3. Gonzaga joins the Big East
#3 might be the most likely option.
There's 0% chance of #3, so does that mean there's a negative probability for 1 and 2?
Quote from: Zephyr820 on April 05, 2017, 01:32:30 PM
There's 0% chance of #3, so does that mean there's a negative probability for 1 and 2?
I can confirm that the two sides have talked before. The number is greater than 0%
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
I can confirm that the two sides have talked before. The number is greater than 0%
keefe mentioned years ago that Gonzaga and the BE had talks when the league first started. He knows that from the side of the Zags.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 01:54:10 PM
I can confirm that the two sides have talked before. The number is greater than 0%
But, the number is still close to zero. In any event, why does Gonzaga want or need the BE at this point. The logistics are crazy, especially when factoring in other sports. Don't think any league is going to take the Zags without basketball.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 05, 2017, 02:09:01 PM
But, the number is still close to zero. In any event, why does Gonzaga want or need the BE at this point. The logistics are crazy, especially when factoring in other sports. Don't think any league is going to take the Zags without basketball.
There are po$$ible rea$on$ in play.
There are leagues that would take Gonzaga without basketball. They aren't good, but Gonzaga would gladly stick their other sports in the WAC or Big West or Big Sky if it mean basketball in the Big East. Unfortunately, that doesn't matter because NCAA rules prohibit basketball only membership in conferences. Only football gets to play that game. Its either all of Gonzaga's sports or none of their sports.
The money doesn't make sense right now. If the money were ever to make sense for both sides in the future, it would happen.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 05, 2017, 02:09:01 PM
But, the number is still close to zero. In any event, why does Gonzaga want or need the BE at this point. The logistics are crazy, especially when factoring in other sports. Don't think any league is going to take the Zags without basketball.
As appealing as a team of that caliber would be, I'm with Nukem here. I just don't see how it's realistic for other sports. The only way I think it might be viable is if another school came along and we went to divisions to limit travel. Even then, for everyone except Creighton, Gonzaga would be the furthest travel on their schedule.
If we could relocate Spokane to one of the Dakotas, I'd be all for it, but for non-revenue sports, that is a huge travel bill.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 05, 2017, 02:09:01 PM
But, the number is still close to zero. In any event, why does Gonzaga want or need the BE at this point. The logistics are crazy, especially when factoring in other sports. Don't think any league is going to take the Zags without basketball.
You are right. Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point. In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.
But coaches retire. Bad hires are made. Programs slip. San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere. Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones. And I am sure it has.
Quote from: The Lens on April 04, 2017, 12:09:19 PM
In 1996 UD hired Joel Maturi who was an assistant AD at Wisconsin as their AD. He wanted to hire UW-Platteville's Bo Ryan but the Chancellor didn't approve. Imagine the what-if there.
Actually Bo turned down the job because of his wanting to vest in the WRS.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on April 05, 2017, 02:56:15 PM
Actually Bo turned down the job because of his wanting to vest in the WRS.
That is a 100% accurate statement. Which is why he took the UWM job. Remember D3 coaches don't make all that much. I would be surprised if he was making $100k at Platteville.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 05, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
You are right. Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point. In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.
But coaches retire. Bad hires are made. Programs slip. San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere. Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones. And I am sure it has.
LMU was a flash in the pan with Gathers and Kimble. Maybe they would have sustained some success but the lawsuits and house cleaning after Hank's tragic death buried their program. USF was a powerhouse s but then shut down their program for a while due to major scandals and probation. There is no comparison there. Gonzaga has 19 years of sustained success, great facilities, a deep and extremely dedicated fan base and financial resources, all things needed to sustain success even after Few leaves, which probably isn't for another 10-15 years.
As for GU to the Big East, again, it will never happen. Providence isn't sending their soccer teams to Spokane annually, Seton Hall isn't sending baseball out there every two years, GU isn't going to send their tennis teams to Georgetown annually. Most flights won't even be direct from Big East schools, increasing the time away from classes which is a huge issue in the NCAA right now in trying to reduce that. And there's that pesky time change issue. GU would be at a competitive disadvantage in every road contest, losing 2-3 hours per trip. Plus, scheduling is screwed up as GU trips would be the only trips for the weekend for the smaller programs, like Volleyball, whereas now there are 2 contests per weekend.
Even in basketball, for those schools that charter and thus can fly direct you're still looking at increased travel time and, with GU most home games starting at 6 or 7 local time would mean an additional day away from campus instead of being able to return home the night after the game....unless you want to do an overnight flight, meaning that you'll lose the next day as a practice day.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 02:16:07 PM
Unfortunately, that doesn't matter because NCAA rules prohibit basketball only membership in conferences. Only football gets to play that game.
Does anybody know why this is a rule? It seems arbitrary. Has anybody ever challenged the NCAA on it or at least proposed otherwise?
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 05, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
You are right. Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point. In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.
But coaches retire. Bad hires are made. Programs slip. San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere. Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones. And I am sure it has.
Agreed. But, the logistics are just crazy for other sports. And, I doubt leagues another poster suggested would entertain taking the Zags non-BB sports.
Quote from: MU82 on April 05, 2017, 03:14:24 PM
Does anybody know why this is a rule? It seems arbitrary. Has anybody ever challenged the NCAA on it or at least proposed otherwise?
I'm sure that could be changed. Anyone know the rationale for that rule other than possible poaching?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 05, 2017, 02:16:07 PM
The money doesn't make sense right now. If the money were ever to make sense for both sides in the future, it would happen.
I think this debate has been pretty much played out, but I do want to reply to this post only to say, "well, no sh*t." And if the money ever makes sense for both New Mexico State and the Big East to team up, it will happen. And Southern Alabama. And Hawaii. You're not really going out on a limb to say, "if the money makes sense for everyone involved, it will happen." The debate, really, is that a lot of people think the money will never make sense for both sides.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on April 05, 2017, 03:20:31 PM
I think this debate has been pretty much played out, but I do want to reply to this post only to say, "well, no sh*t." And if the money ever makes sense for both New Mexico State and the Big East to team up, it will happen. And Southern Alabama. And Hawaii. You're not really going out on a limb to say, "if the money makes sense for everyone involved, it will happen." The debate, really, is that a lot of people think the money will never make sense for both sides.
Of course. My main point is that if geography wasn't a factor, the money would work for both sides and it would happen tomorrow. Some people see the geography and say its "definite no.
Others, including people of power in the Big East and at Gonzaga see it as "no for the moment but let's see if we can find a way to get to yes." There is interest on both sides. They just don't know how to make it work yet.
My impression is that there is less interest on the Big East side than the Gonzaga side at the moment. There will likely be another whirlwind of realignment in the next 6-10 years. Big East is set up as takers at the moment. Its in their interest to wait and see how things are going to play out before rushing into anything.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on April 05, 2017, 02:33:35 PM
You are right. Gonzaga doesn't need the BE at this point. In 1979, Marquette didn't need the BE either.
But coaches retire. Bad hires are made. Programs slip. San Francisco and Loyola Marymount, from that same conference, used to be powerhouses and now they are nowhere. Gonzaga has to weigh its future interests with its immediate ones. And I am sure it has.
Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 05, 2017, 04:42:13 PM
Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.
Like Gonzaga today, we were not a geographical fit back then and we still valued our "independent" status despite the changing landscape of college basketball at the time.
Quote from: 79Warrior on April 05, 2017, 04:42:13 PM
Marquette was never in the discussion in 1979 for the BE. We never inquired and we also were not asked. MU was still basking in the glow of 1977.
I'm not so sure about that. Thought I remembered hearing otherwise, but because of the factors muwarrior69 mentioned it never went anywhere.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 06, 2017, 11:38:35 AM
I'm not so sure about that. Thought I remembered hearing otherwise, but because of the factors muwarrior69 mentioned it never went anywhere.
But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 06, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.
Just saying I recall hearing otherwise, but that it never got much further than that. I don't think Marquette had any interest in joining a conference at that point.
If the Big East continues its current trend, one where we continue to get over half of our conference into the NCAA Tournament consistently, and one where we consistently have a team or two make deep runs into the tournament (Villanova last year, Xavier this year), then the Big East will not need to resort to add teams in order to increase the value and perception of the league. Butler, Creighton and Xavier were home runs for the conference. They have solidified themselves as the backbone of the reorganized conference, and have become consistent threats to make the tournament every year. While they were excellent additions, it does not mean that the conference needs to add more in order to strengthen itself.
In order for the league to take another step, St. Johns and Georgetown need to return to their elite levels, and become staples at the top of the league with Villanova. Marquette can also help with this, and if they can return to the expectations of achieving a deep run in the tournament, watch out.
Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.
Quote from: MUDPT on April 06, 2017, 02:30:38 PM
Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.
that's an amazingly low number if you're talking about each of the 14 teams traveling to Spokane annually.
Quote from: MUDPT on April 06, 2017, 02:30:38 PM
Some one on here figured out the extra travel cost for MU was $35,000, to travel to Spokane over Dayton. That was for all sports combined.
And how about for every single one of Gonzaga's sports teams to travel from Spokane, WA across the country every single week?
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 06, 2017, 01:01:02 PM
But the Big East wasn't founded until 1979, that would have made MU a founding member to an East coast only conference. I suspect Marquette never came up in founding members' discussions.
You are correct. Also, MU was not remotely interested in a conference at that point in time.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 06, 2017, 03:36:39 PM
And how about for every single one of Gonzaga's sports teams to travel from Spokane, WA across the country every single week?
Not every single week. Half their games are at home. Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.
It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 06, 2017, 04:36:12 PM
Not every single week. Half their games are at home. Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.
It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.
Whatever the $$ might be, the time zone stuff is still a huge issue.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 06, 2017, 04:36:12 PM
Not every single week. Half their games are at home. Non- conference and postseason games also don't count.
It's still a hefty sum of money. But not more than the money boosr they would get from the big easts television contract.
Right, and you play 2 games/week on average in BE play, at least for basketball and I would assume other sports that are head to head competition are probably similar. So, on average, you're playing 1 game/week on the road throughout the conference season.
Quote from: wadesworld on April 06, 2017, 05:42:28 PM
Right, and you play 2 games/week on average in BE play, at least for basketball and I would assume other sports that are head to head competition are probably similar. So, on average, you're playing 1 game/week on the road throughout the conference season.
They aren't. Basketball plays more often then most other sports. It is also only the conference season that's affected. The main point is the money gained from the TV contract would still be greater by a significant margin.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 06, 2017, 04:42:51 PM
Whatever the $$ might be, the time zone stuff is still a huge issue.
Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 06, 2017, 06:27:35 PM
Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.
Sure, but I'm talking about the kids and the staff and school and whatever. A 3 hour swing over and over is no fun.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on April 06, 2017, 06:27:35 PM
Why? A 6 or even a 7 pm start in Spokane would be 9 or 10 ET.
Some of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.
Gonzaga is perfectly situated in the WCC. They are in a conference of religious oriented schools with a double round robin schedule. The WCC has enough good teams to be able to draw multiple NCAA bids. St. Mary's and BYU are programs that can make it to the tournament.
Gonzaga schedules tough teams in the non conference. As long as they keep doing that they will be fine. It appears as if the rest of the conference is moving in that scheduling direction. WCC needs to encourage the weaker teams to improve or figure out the economics of doing lots of road buy games with good teams to help rpi .
The Big East is very solid the way it is and still has a lot of upside potential organically. A resurgence at Georgetown and St Johns will be of enormous value to all. DePaul has a long way to go, but at least they have something to build around with the new arena.
Quote from: warriorchick on April 06, 2017, 06:33:08 PM
Some of us have to get up and go to work in the morning.
.....but it is Gonzaga.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 06, 2017, 11:38:35 AM
I'm not so sure about that. Thought I remembered hearing otherwise, but because of the factors muwarrior69 mentioned it never went anywhere.
Not for the original Big East. Holy Cross was and they turned it down. MU was in the discussion when the Big East went through their first expansion as the basketball schools wanted another of their own to offset Miami joining as a football school. MU membership was defeated by one vote, rumored (but not confirmed) to be St. John's.
Maybe the hyperloop (not the Hoopaloop) will speed up travel to Spokane.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on April 06, 2017, 07:48:06 PM
Maybe the hyperloop (not the Hoopaloop) will speed up travel to Spokane.
The Hyperhoopaloop.
Hoopaloop knows Elan Musk, you know. They were in a box at the Masters today. Tony Romo was there too.