USA Today wrote a lot of words about Buzz and his contract. We wrote a lot more words about USA Today and Buzz and his contract.
https://painttouches.com/2017/03/29/why-buzz-williams-left-marquette-2017-edition/ (https://painttouches.com/2017/03/29/why-buzz-williams-left-marquette-2017-edition/)
I am a HUGE Buzz fan but that was work well done. Bravo.
QuoteIn Williams' office, a dry erase board lists items remaining on his so-called "bucket list," which include running a marathon, attending a Kentucky Derby and a U.S. Open tennis tournament and building a relationship with former Dallas Cowboys coach Jimmy Johnson.
Addressing these items in order: (1) OK, good for you; (2) and (3) buy a ticket, maybe? and (4) this is disturbingly specific and might be cited as the grounds for a restraining order in the future.
I LOL'd
Well done, gents.
But I'm over it. Wojo is our guy now, and he's now got us own guys. The future is bright.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on March 29, 2017, 04:38:10 PM
Well done, gents.
But I'm over it. Wojo is our guy now, and he's now got us own guys. The future is bright.
Agree. But still, I'm a huge fan of solid writing and research. This is worth the read for that alone.
Quote from: Oldgym on March 29, 2017, 04:56:22 PM
Agree. But still, I'm a huge fan of solid writing and research. This is worth the read for that alone.
Totally agreed.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3ornjHL4fLS94x39Wo/giphy.gif)
That was pretty awesome. Well done PT.
Quote from: pux90mex on March 29, 2017, 03:47:25 PM
USA Today wrote a lot of words about Buzz and his contract. We wrote a lot more words about USA Today and Buzz and his contract.
https://painttouches.com/2017/03/29/why-buzz-williams-left-marquette-2017-edition/ (https://painttouches.com/2017/03/29/why-buzz-williams-left-marquette-2017-edition/)
Excellent compilation . Should be cited on Buzz Wikipedia page.
Can you imagine if Al had the resources Buzz and Wojo have at MU?
Nah, Al didn't have da neck Bumstead's got, hey?
Fantastic journalism, PT. Very well done. Buzz has that school by the nuts...
Nicely done.
One of the big rules in sports:
The second a coach/athlete/GM/school or team president/etc says "It's not about the money," it's a guarantee that it is all about the money.
Out.standing.
No panic room mention, ai-na?
Why am I not as impressed with this long winded rant? Furthermore, what's the point? Is this a new genre, sports muckraking?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 30, 2017, 12:22:48 AM
No panic room mention, ai-na?
Brent is writing down every comment in this thread. And VPI is paying him to do it (since it's probably in his contract).
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 05:54:19 AM
Why am I not as impressed with the long winded rant? Furthermore, what's the point? Is this a new genre, sports muckraking?
Rant? It's dissembling a national writer and his Buzz driven narrative that paints Marquette in a bad light.
Quite frankly, I'm tried of all the national guys that take a pumping from a coach and run these features without any secondary research or look at the numbers.
#characterrevealed
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 05:54:19 AM
Why am I not as impressed with the long winded rant?
I have no idea.
Recall on the other board that DB+2 was offered the finest wine, women and song after doing an excellent job trolling that school 78 miles to the west. I believe the same is in order here.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 05:54:19 AM
Why am I not as impressed with this long winded rant? Furthermore, what's the point? Is this a new genre, sports muckraking?
I actually agree with Vogue for once. There is more sour grapes than investigative journalism in the PT response.
DB+2 had karma come around and gnaw on his buttocks.
Gang, move on.
I hope the Hillbilly rots in moonshine hell. But he is not of concern to me now.
Coach Wojo has begun to turn the corner. We made the tournament. Our class coming in addresses core weaknesses on our team -- weaknesses that have been apparent since Chris Otule and Davante Gardner were graduated. We have a point guard, which we really haven't had since Junior Cadougan was graduated several years ago.
Last night, we celebrated the 40th Anniversary of the greatest win in Marquette history. It was a moment to reflect on Butch, Bo, Ulice, Bill, Jim and Jerome. Those of us who remember that day long for the moment when we're again in the college elite. The Hillbilly got us close and I'm confident after retrenching Coach Wojo will get us over the top.
Let's face it, the Hillbilly jilted us because he had to accept that he was part of the university, not the university part of him.
If I'm a Va Tech fan, this article makes me nervous. If we see another op-ed on Buzz's Bunch, he's gone.
Quote from: Badgerhater on March 30, 2017, 09:41:37 AM
I actually agree with Vogue for once. There is more sour grapes than investigative journalism in the PT response.
Thanks, and BTW my grandparents could not read or write, my parents never graduated from high school, why the elite snob flavor to the Buzz hate? Wojo has nothing, nothing to do with Buzz and the path of his life. I root for both to be successful, I still can't get myself to root for Duke.
What is the motivation behind the story? Can't Marquette, Milwaukee, and Wisconsin get over their inferiority complex?
Quote from: Oldgym on March 29, 2017, 04:56:22 PM
Agree. But still, I'm a huge fan of solid writing and research. This is worth the read for that alone.
Totally agree!
Buzz brags a lot about how he's built that VPI program from essentially nothing. I would argue that what Wojo has done at Marquette since taking over is more impressive, given what Buzz left us with.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 12:06:53 PM
Thanks, and BTW my grandparents could not read or write, my parents never graduated from high school, why the elite snob flavor to the Buzz hate? Wojo has nothing, nothing to do with Buzz and the path of his life. I root for both to be successful, I still can't get myself to root for Duke.
What is the motivation behind the story? Can't Marquette, Milwaukee, and Wisconsin get over their inferiority complex?
Wow, you think the hate for Buzz is related to snobbery? I'd love to hear your argument for that.
The hate for Buzz and his schtick is because it is a schtick. I'm sure Buzz has core beliefs, but what he says and what he actually does/acts is different. And his continued PR campaign against MU(maybe not directly but certainly indirectly) shows a lack of class and self-reflection. Lastly, I don't expect anyone to be humble in this profession, but to cloak yourself in the image of humility and be anything but is a level of hypocrisy I just can't stand.
How many schools did Buzz talk to while here at Marquette? I can only think of SMU and Illinois for some reason. Weren't OK State and TCU two others? Oklahoma? Auburn? Anyone have a list?
By comparison, how many schools did Crean talk to?
Quote from: mu03eng on March 30, 2017, 12:34:58 PM
Wow, you think the hate for Buzz is related to snobbery? I'd love to hear your argument for that.
The hate for Buzz and his schtick is because it is a schtick. I'm sure Buzz has core beliefs, but what he says and what he actually does/acts is different. And his continued PR campaign against MU(maybe not directly but certainly indirectly) shows a lack of class and self-reflection. Lastly, I don't expect anyone to be humble in this profession, but to cloak yourself in the image of humility and be anything but is a level of hypocrisy I just can't stand.
I'll never forget when he showed up on TV, like the day after he left Marquette, wearing a Vtech pin on his shirt.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 30, 2017, 12:34:58 PMThe hate for Buzz and his schtick is because it is a schtick.
For me, it's about what happened after he left. If you want to run out as soon as the door cracks open, whatever. I'm not even bothered so much by the "as long as they'll have me" quote because my guess is by the time Buzz left, Marquette wasn't really standing in his way at all.
But once he was gone, he took shots at the Big East. He complained about the league, the television contract, the exposure, as though only the ACC and ESPN could drive success. All the while, stealing recruits that he brought to Marquette on our dime. I'd be fine if they went elsewhere, but that's essentially stealing from your former employer.
Buzz went out of his way to denigrate our league and then stole from the school that put a paycheck in his pocket for 7 years. That's classless.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 30, 2017, 10:52:38 AM
If I'm a Va Tech fan, this article makes me nervous. If we see another op-ed on Buzz's Bunch, he's gone.
Buzz will be at Va Tech for quite a while. He likes to build things. First he took the VPI program from dumpster fire status to tournament level. He still has to sustain the tournament level status and then he has a long hill to climb to be in top 25 status and then from their to top 15 status. ACC is the right conference platform for him at this juncture of his career. Once he does everything he needs to do at VPI he can get one last big money hit out of a desperate fallen blue blood.
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 30, 2017, 01:52:01 PM
For me, it's about what happened after he left. If you want to run out as soon as the door cracks open, whatever. I'm not even bothered so much by the "as long as they'll have me" quote because my guess is by the time Buzz left, Marquette wasn't really standing in his way at all.
But once he was gone, he took shots at the Big East. He complained about the league, the television contract, the exposure, as though only the ACC and ESPN could drive success. All the while, stealing recruits that he brought to Marquette on our dime. I'd be fine if they went elsewhere, but that's essentially stealing from your former employer.
Buzz went out of his way to denigrate our league and then stole from the school that put a paycheck in his
pocket for 7 years. That's classless.
I agree with the taking shots at the Big East. That was in bad taste and totally unnecessary.
Taking Hill and Pierce when Wojo didn't even try to keep them doesn't bother me......don't think it would have mattered anyway.....Nieither had ties to the state....and weren't coming here after Buzz left....once they get released from the NLI they can go anywhere....school can't restrict ....at least that is my understanding.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2017, 01:59:56 PMBuzz will be at Va Tech for quite a while. He likes to build things.
Likes to destroy things too, based on the state he left our program in. If I were a betting man, I'd say Buzz will be at Va Tech for 1-3 years. If he gets a Sweet 16, watch out for that Buzz's Bunch redux or a similar puff piece.
He'll have built Marquette into a sustaining power and taken Va Tech from zero to something, which is more than anyone else has done in 50+ years. It'll be interesting to see where he heads next, but I certainly don't think Blacksburg is a long-term stop for him.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 30, 2017, 12:34:58 PM
Wow, you think the hate for Buzz is related to snobbery? I'd love to hear your argument for that.
The hate for Buzz and his schtick is because it is a schtick. I'm sure Buzz has core beliefs, but what he says and what he actually does/acts is different. And his continued PR campaign against MU(maybe not directly but certainly indirectly) shows a lack of class and self-reflection. Lastly, I don't expect anyone to be humble in this profession, but to cloak yourself in the image of humility and be anything but is a level of hypocrisy I just can't stand.
Unfortunately, yes I do. The constant referral to him as a hillbilly is condescending, insulting, elitist, and to use your term snobbish.
The fact that he can negotiate his contracts without lawyers or agents is great, more power to him. It takes humility to leave the lawyers out of the negotiations. Lawyers are highly overrated in contract formation or administration.
His take on using percentages and ambiguities versus dollars shows a rather sophisticated understanding of contracting, negotiations and business. He is what he is and where he is from is where he is from, we don't need to name call.
I suggest the recent book Hillbilly Elegy for further understanding hillbillies and snobery.
I don't see the indirect slurring of MU. He said he would stay as long as MU wanted him, MU hired a high priced lawyer to get rid of Buzz, now Buzz is the bad guy, that's how I see it.
PT could do an expose on the BOT or on Mr. Williams the super lawyer from ND, and then we might see the rest of the picture. Looks to me that the sports lawyer lost the battle and the war.
Interesting that my takeaway from the storty was positive of Buzz. Some see the story as a deserved hit job, but I see Buzz as a hero, amazing, same story, same facts, different conclusion.
He is neither a hero or a villain... ....he is a coach who made a business decision.
He should have left without taking shots at the Big East.........but his time here was done and both sides were ready to move on.
It's about time for fans to do the same.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
Interesting that my takeaway from the storty was positive of Buzz. Some see the story as a deserved hit job, but I see Buzz as a hero, amazing, same story, same facts, different conclusion.
It is interesting. That's why I think Andrei wrote the article. There is so much misinformation, misleading language, and alternative facts that it makes Buzz out to be a selfless hero.... When really he's a very intelligent man who understands contracts very well and is as greedy as the rest of us. He has the Hokies by the nuts... Which bully for him... But it's dishonest at best to sell his contract as proof of him being done sort of hero.
Now I don't have the same level of beef with buzz as others do. I would like to see him succeed after MU. I don't really care if buzz arranges a bunch of puff pieces about himself. He's someone elses problem now.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 30, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
It is interesting. That's why I think Andrei wrote the article. There is so much misinformation, misleading language, and alternative facts that it makes Buzz out to be a selfless hero.... When really he's a very intelligent man who understands contracts very well and is as greedy as the rest of us. He has the Hokies by the nuts... Which bully for him... But it's dishonest at best to sell his contract as proof of him being done sort of hero.
Now I don't have the same level of beef with buzz as others do. I would like to see him succeed after MU. I don't really care if buzz arranges a bunch of puff pieces about himself. He's someone elses problem now.
I have zero issues with his behavior around contracts or looking out for himself or even finding a better pasture in VPI than he had at Marquette that he had at the end. What I have issue with is doing all that, then using the media to pretend you aren't AND repeatedly defaming the school/conference that gave you the chance with half truths and inaccuracies.
As I said on the podcast, I think it's fun to pick on Crean and I hated the way he left the program, I have no animosity towards him and wish him well. Buzz on the other hand, I have a lot of animosity towards, not because he left or the manner in which he left, but because he continues to make trouble.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on March 30, 2017, 12:58:35 PM
I'll never forget when he showed up on TV, like the day after he left Marquette, wearing a Vtech pin on his shirt.
His Twitter page was changed to VT colors before it was publicly announced that he was taking the VT job.
The guy is a media whore, plain and simple. He didn't care about MU and the alumni. I was at Circles event where he wouldn't talk to any of us there before hand, did his little "aw shucks" shtick and then ran out before the end of the event. Never mind 400 people were there just to meet him. Glad he's gone and every remnant of his time here is now gone too.
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on March 30, 2017, 12:58:25 PM
How many schools did Buzz talk to while here at Marquette? I can only think of SMU and Illinois for some reason. Weren't OK State and TCU two others? Oklahoma? Auburn? Anyone have a list?
Arkansas and Oregon are two others. He'd have people post on message boards that he was a candidate to use it to get more money from MU.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 30, 2017, 02:55:44 PM
I have zero issues with his behavior around contracts or looking out for himself or even finding a better pasture in VPI than he had at Marquette that he had at the end. What I have issue with is doing all that, then using the media to pretend you aren't AND repeatedly defaming the school/conference that gave you the chance with half truths and inaccuracies.
As I said on the podcast, I think it's fun to pick on Crean and I hated the way he left the program, I have no animosity towards him and wish him well. Buzz on the other hand, I have a lot of animosity towards, not because he left or the manner in which he left, but because he continues to make trouble.
Yes, it's time to bury the hatchet. Could be that old Buzz reads some of the vitriol spewed on MUScoop and is just pushing back a little.
On the subject of the long term strategic staying power of the Big East and Fox Sports, I have my concerns. In the mean time we can have fun.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 02:21:47 PM
Unfortunately, yes I do. The constant referral to him as a hillbilly is condescending, insulting, elitist, and to use your term snobbish.
I probably started the Hillbilly monicker on this board. And I Make no apology for it. I grew up in arguably the Bubba or Hillbilly capital of the world and the only one on this board who probably knows Hillbillies as well as I do is Chick.
Buzz has good qualities. I don't doubt it. And there are some fine hillbillies too. But my experience with hill people is they are myopic and outright fearful of culture and ideas not their own. Sounds to me like why Buzz left.
That said, I despise Buzz because of the way he went out. It was a divorce and in a divorce case, a classy litigant does not call his ex-wife a f**king whore on the way out the door. I know the Good book tells me I should the turn the other cheek, but here, when you mess with my Warriors, God will understand, I hope!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 30, 2017, 02:39:20 PM
It is interesting. That's why I think Andrei wrote the article. There is so much misinformation, misleading language, and alternative facts that it makes Buzz out to be a selfless hero.... When really he's a very intelligent man who understands contracts very well and is as greedy as the rest of us. He has the Hokies by the nuts... Which bully for him... But it's dishonest at best to sell his contract as proof of him being done sort of hero.
Now I don't have the same level of beef with buzz as others do. I would like to see him succeed after MU. I don't really care if buzz arranges a bunch of puff pieces about himself. He's someone elses problem now.
His contract acumen goes against a characterization that he is a hillbilly. He is a very high energy character, over the top, outside of the box, unique, whatever, very unlike most of us. That does not make him a bad person. He marches to a different drummer, so be it.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2017, 01:59:56 PM
Buzz will be at Va Tech for quite a while. He likes to build things. First he took the VPI program from dumpster fire status to tournament level. He still has to sustain the tournament level status and then he has a long hill to climb to be in top 25 status and then from their to top 15 status. ACC is the right conference platform for him at this juncture of his career. Once he does everything he needs to do at VPI he can get one last big money hit out of a desperate fallen blue blood.
Not to mention that he likes to take underprivileged kids and act as a father figure for them. He likes high risk challenges, my hats off to him. O.K., he has his faults, in sum, he is more of a man than I.
So, maybe he never flushed because he grew up without running water?
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 30, 2017, 03:20:36 PM
I probably started the Hillbilly monicker on this board. And I Make no apology for it. I grew up in arguably the Bubba or Hillbilly capital of the world and the only one on this board who probably knows Hillbillies as well as I do is Chick.
Buzz has good qualities. I don't doubt it. And there are some fine hillbillies too. But my experience with hill people is they are myopic and outright fearful of culture and ideas not their own. Sounds to me like why Buzz left.
That said, I despise Buzz because of the way he went out. It was a divorce and in a divorce case, a classy litigant does not call his ex-wife a f**king whore on the way out the door. I know the Good book tells me I should the turn the other cheek, but here, when you mess with my Warriors, God will understand, I hope!
I thought I knew the hillbilly culture, that is until I read Hillbilly Elegy. Hay, maybe she is a whore.
Seriously, without the rest of the story, BOT, Williams, the university president, the unproven allegations, I side with Buzz.
Why not take a shot at a gang of thugs who just fired you? I suppose I lack "class".
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 30, 2017, 03:30:33 PM
So, maybe he never flushed because he grew up without running water?
Was that a joke? Yes, some people still grow up without running water, even in cities like Mikwaukee.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:20:58 PM
His contract acumen goes against a characterization that he is a hillbilly. He is a very high energy character, over the top, outside of the box, unique, whatever, very unlike most of us. That does not make him a bad person. He marches to a different drummer, so be it.
At what point did I or the PT article refer to Buzz as a Hillbilly? If you are going to get angry and defensive about random fans on the internet being bitter that their coach left, you might not want to internet.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
I thought I knew the hillbilly culture, that is until I read Hillbilly Elegy. Hay, maybe she is a whore.
Seriously, without the rest of the story, BOT, Williams, the university president, the unproven allegations, I side with Buzz.
Why not take a shot at a gang of thugs who just fired you? I suppose I lack "class".
You've been given the rest of the story. You just choose not to believe it. The university is not a bunch of thugs. I don't know what unproven allegations you are referring to. Buzz was not fired. He was welcome to return for another year. He choose not to. The university did not stop him. Ultimately, best for both parties.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:20:58 PM
His contract acumen goes against a characterization that he is a hillbilly. He is a very high energy character, over the top, outside of the box, unique, whatever, very unlike most of us. That does not make him a bad person. He marches to a different drummer, so be it.
The PT article was less a criticism of Buzz and more a criticism of how the media portrays him.
Here we go again, that is why I have had you on ignore for a very long time. I suggest you reread your serenity prayer and try and discern it's inner meaning.
I'll go even further, I love Buzz, if you prefer I call the former university administration a circus of clowns to a gang of thugs, fine. With that I'll cut you off, again, and say good night from Italy, buono sera.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 30, 2017, 03:49:52 PM
The PT article was less a criticism of Buzz and more a criticism of how the media portrays him.
Good point, rather nuanced, it did however open the flood gates of Buzz hate, again.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
I thought I knew the hillbilly culture, that is until I read Hillbilly Elegy. Hay, maybe she is a whore.
Seriously, without the rest of the story, BOT, Williams, the university president, the unproven allegations, I side with Buzz.
Why not take a shot at a gang of thugs who just fired you? I suppose I lack "class".
"Don't call people hillbillies, that's classless and offensive!"
"The administration is a bunch of thugs!"
Classic.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
Good point, rather nuanced, it did however open the flood gates of Buzz hate, again.
It is OK for people not to like him. There are a number of legitimate reasons why people don't.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:33:08 PM
I thought I knew the hillbilly culture, that is until I read Hillbilly Elegy. Hay, maybe she is a whore.
Seriously, without the rest of the story, BOT, Williams, the university president, the unproven allegations, I side with Buzz.
Why not take a shot at a gang of thugs who just fired you? I suppose I lack "class".
what unproven allegations? Because if you're referring to the assault cases then you have your head in the sand.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:25:51 PM
Not to mention that he likes to take underprivileged kids and act as a father figure for them. He likes high risk challenges, my hats off to him. O.K., he has his faults, in sum, he is more of a man than I.
only when cameras are around and he can make sure his buddy Dodd reports on it. Nothing he does is genuine and not for his own advancement.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:56:01 PM
Good point, rather nuanced, it did however open the flood gates of Buzz hate, again.
You pick the strangest things in this forum to get your knickers in a twist. The angst is almost.......intentional.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:54:04 PM
Here we go again, that is why I have had you on ignore for a very long time. I suggest you reread your serenity prayer and try and discern it's inner meaning.
I'll go even further, I love Buzz, if you prefer I call the former university administration a circus of clowns to a gang of thugs, fine. With that I'll cut you off, again, and say good night from Italy, buono sera.
Someone had me on ignore? I'm honored!
Buzz's wife scours it he interwebs daily to find stuff written about him.......
But Buzzcut and run is a very humble grasshopper, don't you know?
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:54:04 PM
Here we go again, that is why I have had you on ignore for a very long time. I suggest you reread your serenity prayer and try and discern it's inner meaning.
I'll go even further, I love Buzz, if you prefer I call the former university administration a circus of clowns to a gang of thugs, fine. With that I'll cut you off, again, and say good night from Italy, buono sera.
Here's how i take the whole "Hillbilly" moniker:
In my 20's i worked for a lawn and garden equipment manufacturer and had to address the national sales directors. the midwest director was a gent named Purd who loved to talk about how he got his name because his grandpa offered $40 to keep the family name going, played up the 'country bumpkin' image, and proclaimed during my presentation that "i thought my poop smelled like apple butter" - I had never heard of apple butter BUT during the break i asked him if he wanted me to bring up his East Coast boarding school or Princeton education to the group. He was very supportive of the next part of the presentation.
Buzz plays the hillbilly/bumpkin because he's smart and it works - he's exactly Purd without the Princeton education
I don't mean this in the wrong way, but most people are gullible idiots. To take advantage of that... bad or smart & reasonable? Dunno.
Buzz would throw out numbers, and people would say he was a savant, but early on he said the early signing period was 7 days instead of 8... I understood things a lot better from there on out.
He likes and appreciates numbers. He's not a great numbers guy.
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 30, 2017, 03:20:36 PM
I probably started the Hillbilly monicker on this board. And I Make no apology for it. I grew up in arguably the Bubba or Hillbilly capital of the world and the only one on this board who probably knows Hillbillies as well as I do is Chick.
Buzz has good qualities. I don't doubt it. And there are some fine hillbillies too. But my experience with hill people is they are myopic and outright fearful of culture and ideas not their own. Sounds to me like why Buzz left.
That said, I despise Buzz because of the way he went out. It was a divorce and in a divorce case, a classy litigant does not call his ex-wife a f**king whore on the way out the door. I know the Good book tells me I should the turn the other cheek, but here, when you mess with my Warriors, God will understand, I hope!
I have a lot of experience in hillbilly culture have done business in it for years. Buzz is not a Hillbilly ,He is a classic East Texas snake oil salesman , a much different breed.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 30, 2017, 02:58:54 PM
His Twitter page was changed to VT colors before it was publicly announced that he was taking the VT job.
The guy is a media whore, plain and simple. He didn't care about MU and the alumni. I was at Circles event where he wouldn't talk to any of us there before hand, did his little "aw shucks" shtick and then ran out before the end of the event. Never mind 400 people were there just to meet him. Glad he's gone and every remnant of his time here is now gone too.
I've never gotten the criticism of the pin. If we hired Shaka and he was on CBS the next day, we'd all love the pin. He was their coach at that point he should rep them.
I enjoyed the article. He's really been full of it when he's been talking about taking the job. Buzz did great things here, but it's easy now to wonder how long he'd be able to sustain it. We all worried about him retiring young. I think now I'm seeing he has a tough time when he's not the underdog and it will be interesting to see if he can have sustained success at VT. Honestly, he's already stayed here longer than I expected.
I'm glad we have Wojo. Less drama and fits in very well with the university and administration. We just need him to keep progressing as a coach and I think we will be in fine shape.
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on March 30, 2017, 01:59:56 PM
Buzz will be at Va Tech for quite a while. He likes to build things. First he took the VPI program from dumpster fire status to tournament level. He still has to sustain the tournament level status and then he has a long hill to climb to be in top 25 status and then from their to top 15 status. ACC is the right conference platform for him at this juncture of his career. Once he does everything he needs to do at VPI he can get one last big money hit out of a desperate fallen blue blood.
Except for UNO
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
Some people measure where people's lives are at in dollars. Others don't. To each their own.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
I'd assume most of us sleep better at night knowing we didn't aid in a sexual assault cover up.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 30, 2017, 10:51:38 PM
I'd assume most of us sleep better at night knowing we didn't aid in a sexual assault cover up.
Preach.
Awh shucks, I used to wear my one suit I owned, and went to the NCAA tournament with 1 penny left in my pocket, and hand out resumes until I got hired...
Wanna know what love is? Ask those boys in that locker room. A lot of them never have been loved.
F*** Buzz. Guys a snake, and I'm thrilled he's gone.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 30, 2017, 03:11:02 PM
Yes, it's time to bury the hatchet. Could be that old Buzz reads some of the vitriol spewed on MUScoop and is just pushing back a little.
I'm hoping this is a joke because if you.think it's legitimate to repeatedly mislead in national media because of something you read on an internet message board posted by a bunch of fools.....that would be just sad
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
That's...uh...odd.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on March 30, 2017, 10:51:38 PM
I'd assume most of us sleep better at night knowing we didn't aid in a sexual assault cover up.
If Buzz did now what he did then, in a post-PSU, post-Baylor world, he would be lucky to have his career.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
Lenny is to Buzz as Chicos is to Crean. Pretty funny actually
Quote from: swoopem on March 31, 2017, 07:32:50 AM
Lenny is to Buzz as Chicos is to Crean. Pretty funny actually
I'm going to start getting crazy girlfriend all over Wojo when Elliot commits.
Quote from: cheese ball chaser on March 30, 2017, 12:58:35 PM
I'll never forget when he showed up on TV, like the day after he left Marquette, wearing a Vtech pin on his shirt.
Yep, that was twisting the knife IMO.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 07:29:08 AM
If Buzz did now what he did then, in a post-PSU, post-Baylor world, he would be lucky to have his career.
This is correct, though to be fair it feels like Baylor's kind of getting away with it so maybe we're wrong. Either for the guy that preaches about revealing character, he doesn't particularly like when his is revealed
Quote from: brewcity77 on March 30, 2017, 01:52:01 PM
Buzz went out of his way to denigrate our league and then stole from the school that put a paycheck in his pocket for 7 years. That's classless.
And he tried to steal even more, but he got caught. If you recall, MU caught his assistants trying to walk out of The Al with all of the recruiting binders, which were clearly Marquette property.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 31, 2017, 08:11:45 AM
This is correct, though to be fair it feels like Baylor's kind of getting away with it so maybe we're wrong. Either for the guy that preaches about revealing character, he doesn't particularly like when his is revealed
Well they did fire the football coach. But comparing the situation at Baylor to the one at marquette is like comparing a napping house cat to a rabid puma.
Quote from: PTM on March 31, 2017, 08:08:31 AM
I'm going to start getting crazy girlfriend all over Wojo when Elliot commits.
as long as you are in the upper right quadrant of the scale
(https://media.giphy.com/media/Y4rZAyCiJLXLq/giphy.gif)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 31, 2017, 08:18:12 AM
Well they did fire the football coach. But comparing the situation at Baylor to the one at marquette is like comparing a napping house cat to a rabid puma.
Not comparing it in orders of magnitude, but quite frankly there is an argument to be made that Buzz should have been fired if we are looking at this ethically and/or morally. Yes Baylor is much worse in terms of scope and impacted humans, but the core "violation" is no different than at MU. Buzz gets to skate because he's a PR machine and MUAD had terrible reporting policies for crimes of that nature (both internally and to the police).
I'll never forget the Paint Touches article that mentioned how Bazz would send 30 handwritten notes every month to random people that he's met in his life.
I coupled that fact with the DJ Newbill story and thought to myself: "this lettterwriting isn't altruism, it's strategy. Marketing. He's not Father Naus, he's Father Networking."
But then there were stories that he would show up at a Special Olympics event and ask the local media not to report that he was there. Stories like that made me think "well, maybe Bazz does have a soft spot."
Now, given full hindsight, I strongly believe that he went undercover to those events because he knew that it would eventually be reported. He probably knew that it would even be reported that he asked not to have it revealed that he was there. And even if his appearance at Special Olympics events never gets reported, he looks like a saint to journalists.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 31, 2017, 08:11:45 AM
This is correct, though to be fair it feels like Baylor's kind of getting away with it so maybe we're wrong. Either for the guy that preaches about revealing character, he doesn't particularly like when his is revealed
Art Briles was fired though as was their President.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 08:31:53 AM
Art Briles was fired though as was their President.
Eventually, yes. Given the size of the problem, feels like skating to me....plus there was zero impact that I recall from the NCAA on the Baylor program.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 30, 2017, 08:38:47 PM
Lots of butt hurt, cynicism and even outright hate by people on this board who started their lives miles ahead of Buzz and are now are far, far behind. If "the hillbilly" gave you guys a moment's thought he'd have a good laugh. He doesn't.
Lenny, your comment says it all. I never saw the anger coming from envy and jealousy, it usually comes from fear. Thank you for bringing closure for me on this subject. Simply outstanding insight, all the rationalizations and evidence notwithstanding, the underlieing driver is envy and jealously.
Quote from: vogue65 on March 31, 2017, 08:49:13 AM
Lenny, your comment says it all. I never saw the anger coming from envy and jealousy, it usually comes from fear. Thank you for bringing closure for me on this subject. Simply outstanding insight, all the rationalizations and evidence notwithstanding, the underlieing driver is envy and jealously.
For a guy who tries to sound educated, you certainly go a long way to prevent yourself from learning things.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 08:59:35 AM
For a guy who tries to sound educated, you certainly go a long way to prevent yourself from learning things.
A live look into Vogue's Italian bunker:
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1297473/not-listening-dumb-and-dumber-o.gif)
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 08:59:35 AM
For a guy who tries to sound educated, you certainly go a long way to prevent yourself from learning things.
+1
Reminds me of Crean's incoherent statement to MU fans. "Beat Pittsburgh"
Quote from: mu03eng on March 31, 2017, 09:07:53 AM
A live look into Vogue's Italian bunker:
(http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1297473/not-listening-dumb-and-dumber-o.gif)
+1,000
Buzz loves money. Coming from where he did, he found a vehicle to get paid. His creation story that we all heard and know by heart is true, but also provides an underlying truth. He is ruthlessly determined to get ahead. He led the life of a coaching nomad for a lot of years before becoming the head coach at Marquette. Doubtlessly, this reinforced the notion to get paid while you can, that no job is forever, and that you are always looking for the next job. He recruited the same way at MU. Relentlessly. Plan A fell through, plan B fell into place, frequently one that no one saw coming from the JUCO ranks. But always looking for the next thing, because the one you are currently counting on isn't permanent.
As soon as he felt threatened, he left. And he really didn't care how he left, because he already had the next thing lined up with protections and guarantees in place. And lower expectations. I think he will eventually leave VTech. At some point, he is going to have enough success and money that he will be unable to resist grabbing for the golden ring again. But he won't be content for a while.
I suspect Buzz already has his list of openings that he would take next, it's just a matter of waiting.
Quote from: tower912 on March 31, 2017, 10:02:48 AM
Buzz loves money. Coming from where he did, he found a vehicle to get paid. His creation story that we all heard and know by heart is true, but also provides an underlying truth. He is ruthlessly determined to get ahead. He led the life of a coaching nomad for a lot of years before becoming the head coach at Marquette. Doubtlessly, this reinforced the notion to get paid while you can, that no job is forever, and that you are always looking for the next job. He recruited the same way at MU. Relentlessly. Plan A fell through, plan B fell into place, frequently one that no one saw coming from the JUCO ranks. But always looking for the next thing, because the one you are currently counting on isn't permanent.
As soon as he felt threatened, he left. And he really didn't care how he left, because he already had the next thing lined up with protections and guarantees in place. And lower expectations. I think he will eventually leave VTech. At some point, he is going to have enough success and money that he will be unable to resist grabbing for the golden ring again. But he won't be content for a while.
And thus his downside in that for all the good he accomplished, that blinded ambition didn't allow him to be able to deal with adversity and fit when ithey became present as issues. Those humble beginnings were forgotten and it became Buzz versus everybody. It is his motivation and his downfall. Bipolar Buzz.
It isn't how you enter a room that you will be remembered by. It is how you leave it. Buzz entered it by sweeping the four corners of the gym as a manager, and left it by leaving a clogger for a student manager to flush. He is all these things, as he left us with a lot of great memories to go with a shyte show. Both are his legacies.
Don't forget how weird of a dude Bazz was. I mean, remember his recruiting pitch to Shabazz Muhammad?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42921.msg592462#msg592462
What a weirdo.
Quote from: tower912 on March 31, 2017, 10:02:48 AM
Buzz loves money. Coming from where he did, he found a vehicle to get paid. His creation story that we all heard and know by heart is true, but also provides an underlying truth. He is ruthlessly determined to get ahead. He led the life of a coaching nomad for a lot of years before becoming the head coach at Marquette. Doubtlessly, this reinforced the notion to get paid while you can, that no job is forever, and that you are always looking for the next job. He recruited the same way at MU. Relentlessly. Plan A fell through, plan B fell into place, frequently one that no one saw coming from the JUCO ranks. But always looking for the next thing, because the one you are currently counting on isn't permanent.
As soon as he felt threatened, he left. And he really didn't care how he left, because he already had the next thing lined up with protections and guarantees in place. And lower expectations. I think he will eventually leave VTech. At some point, he is going to have enough success and money that he will be unable to resist grabbing for the golden ring again. But he won't be content for a while.
Boiled down: Everyone look out for themselves and let the devil take the hindmost
I have zero issue with that personal philosophy, as long as you aren't cloaking yourself in an image of the ultimate altruistic person while actually practicing that philosophy.
Quote from: swoopem on March 31, 2017, 07:32:50 AM
Lenny is to Buzz as Chicos is to Crean. Pretty funny actually
i'm not going to go crazy diligent here, but chicos was selectively critical of tc where appropriate. he wasn't always warm and fuzzy toward him. ya see, that's the thing about chicos-he could be critical of those he was close to when applicable. he could take the blinders off when he had to. if anyone is up to it, check out some of his stuff on sidewalks. you'll see he wasn't always shakin the tc pompon
oh yeah-love, boo-boo ;)
Quote from: mu03eng on March 31, 2017, 08:24:49 AM
Not comparing it in orders of magnitude, but quite frankly there is an argument to be made that Buzz should have been fired if we are looking at this ethically and/or morally. Yes Baylor is much worse in terms of scope and impacted humans, but the core "violation" is no different than at MU. Buzz gets to skate because he's a PR machine and MUAD had terrible reporting policies for crimes of that nature (both internally and to the police).
There is a definite argument that buzz could have been fired. Cottingham was. But Baylor was more of a systematic cover up. Marquette was more out of ignorance.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 31, 2017, 08:45:20 AM
Eventually, yes. Given the size of the problem, feels like skating to me....plus there was zero impact that I recall from the NCAA on the Baylor program.
NCAA is claiming they don't have jurisdiction. I think they could, but don't want to. The only way to keep Baylor from happening again is if the athletic program is significantly sanctioned in some way. They don't want to do that because it punishes students that weren't involved....and money...and the NCAA it's made up of member schools that don't want to make enemies in case their ass it's over over the fire.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on March 31, 2017, 12:01:29 PM
i'm not going to go crazy diligent here, but chicos was selectively critical of tc where appropriate. he wasn't always warm and fuzzy toward him. ya see, that's the thing about chicos-he could be critical of those he was close to when applicable. he could take the blinders off when he had to. if anyone is up to it, check out some of his stuff on sidewalks. you'll see he wasn't always shakin the tc pompon
oh yeah-love, boo-boo ;)
Do you cuddle with Chicos when it gets too much for him to bear?
Quote from: Eldon on March 31, 2017, 10:25:37 AM
Don't forget how weird of a dude Bazz was. I mean, remember his recruiting pitch to Shabazz Muhammad?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42921.msg592462#msg592462
What a weirdo.
Humblebrag. I forgot completely about this. Similar to Benny B and MyRON, though, your mind may not be a safe place.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 31, 2017, 12:22:17 PM
There is a definite argument that buzz could have been fired. Cottingham was. But Baylor was more of a systematic cover up. Marquette was more out of ignorance.
I agree with this. Although it still was a violation.
Look the BOT had a right, and even a duty, to be concerned. However they hired the wrong people to act on those concerns. When they eventually got it right with Wild and Cords, it didn't mean that duty went away.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 31, 2017, 12:22:17 PM
NCAA is claiming they don't have jurisdiction. I think they could, but don't want to. The only way to keep Baylor from happening again is if the athletic program is significantly sanctioned in some way. They don't want to do that because it punishes students that weren't involved....and money...and the NCAA it's made up of member schools that don't want to make enemies in case their ass it's over over the fire.
Pardon my french but bull$hit (not you, the NCAA). If they had standing at Penn State they had FAR more standing at Baylor. Additionally, the sanctions at PSU also directly impacted students never involved so if that's the bar.....
I understand the reality is that they vastly overplayed their hand with PSU (yes horrific events but shouldn't have been an NCAA thing) and so now can't act with Baylor. However, I'd rather than be wrong twice trying to be moral/upstanding than having them slink away
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
I agree with this. Although it still was a violation.
Look the BOT had a right, and even a duty, to be concerned. However they hired the wrong people to act on those concerns. When they eventually got it right with Wild and Cords, it didn't mean that duty went away.
Pilarz was already hired when the story broke.
The problem was he didn't have the skills to deal with it. Also, the timing was terrible, as the Chicago Tribune story hit right before he took over. I think that in part led to the over-correction that occurred.
Quote from: RJax55 on March 31, 2017, 12:45:21 PM
Pilarz was already hired when the story broke.
The problem was he didn't have the skills to deal with it. Also, the timing was terrible, as the Chicago Tribune story hit right before he took over. I think that in part led to the over-correction that occurred.
Makes sense. Thanks.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 12:30:22 PM
I agree with this. Although it still was a violation.
Look the BOT had a right, and even a duty, to be concerned. However they hired the wrong people to act on those concerns. When they eventually got it right with Wild and Cords, it didn't mean that duty went away.
This is where I think MU has blood on its hands. You want to fire Buzz when it was fire reported...fine, I'm good with that.
Let Buzz walk after 9-9 and no NCAA...can't justify that as changing culture. To me that's just you can hold your nose during the Elite 8 but not when we're sitting at home in March. IMO, MU got out of the Buzz Business when he stopped winning.
Quote from: The Lens on March 31, 2017, 12:51:25 PM
This is where I think MU has blood on its hands. You want to fire Buzz when it was fire reported...fine, I'm good with that.
Let Buzz walk after 9-9 and no NCAA...can't justify that as changing culture. To me that's just you can hold your nose during the Elite 8 but not when we're sitting at home in March. IMO, MU got out of the Buzz Business when he stopped winning.
They placed restrictions on how he was operating long before he left. Firing him would have been an over reaction.
Quote from: Sultan of Slap O' Fivin' on March 31, 2017, 12:24:01 PM
Do you cuddle with Chicos when it gets too much for him to bear?
just bear hugs.
Buzz was always able to have it both ways. He was a good ole country bumpkin, but also a Rain Man-like numbers savant. He just wanted to make his players better husbands and fathers, but oversaw a group that had many off-the-court issues. He ran Buzz's Bunch, but also built a basketball court in his house, created a logo for himself, and then had that logo engraved on the court.
Quote from: Eldon on March 31, 2017, 10:25:37 AM
Don't forget how weird of a dude Bazz was. I mean, remember his recruiting pitch to Shabazz Muhammad?
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=42921.msg592462#msg592462
What a weirdo.
WTF?! I count at least 5 posts in there from 4everwarriors in plain English.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on March 31, 2017, 01:13:08 PM
WTF?! I count at least 5 posts in there from 4everwarriors in plain English.
Yeah, he adopted that shtick later on. He wasn't always a incoherent mess, he deliberately chose that.
Because it's funny or something? ?-(
Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 31, 2017, 12:58:49 PM
Buzz was always able to have it both ways. He was a good ole country bumpkin, but also a Rain Man-like numbers savant. He just wanted to make his players better husbands and fathers, but oversaw a group that had many off-the-court issues. He ran Buzz's Bunch, but also built a basketball court in his house, created a logo for himself, and then had that logo engraved on the court.
What is wrong with building a basketball court in your house? Especially in Milwaukee, where the Bucks provide at least 10 potential buyers. I know someone that did that and I used to play hoop there once a week. It's a pretty cool setup and many here if they had that kind of cash would do it too.
Did your friend name the court after themself and then go around in public talking about how selfless they are all the time?
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on March 31, 2017, 01:13:08 PM
WTF?! I count at least 5 posts in there from 4everwarriors in plain English.
He was on the grain back then...
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 31, 2017, 05:15:46 PM
He was on the grain back then...
Wait, I remember that. Back when I was just lurking not posting. 4ever was making a big deal about going gluten free. Dear god, is that what going gluten free does to you?
I suppose its better than the alternative:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbMq7Pme5pk
Quote from: DienerTime34 on March 31, 2017, 02:29:43 PM
Did your friend name the court after themself and then go around in public talking about how selfless they are all the time?
I don't think he went around advertising how big his house was, nor that he had a basketball court in his old mequon home. I'm sure if people saw it on the net or if they asked, he would say, well f**k yeah come on over and let's play a game of horse and I'll have the old lady whoop us up some good ole roadkill
Seeing that we are being faithful to history and opposed to rumors and revisionist slants, my recollection is that the house came with the court. It was built by/for a Milwaukee Bucks player.
Buzz just customized it for his needs, hay, if you have it why not flaunt it?
Quote from: vogue65 on April 01, 2017, 12:11:25 PM
Seeing that we are being faithful to history and opposed to rumors and revisionist slants, my recollection is that the house came with the court. It was built by/for a Milwaukee Bucks player.
Buzz just customized it for his needs, hay, if you have it why not flaunt it?
Nope, was built custom for him.
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 01, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
Nope, was built custom for him.
Is there a fact checker in the house?
Quote from: Nukem2 on April 01, 2017, 12:21:52 PM
Nope, was built custom for him.
Quote from: vogue65 on April 01, 2017, 01:31:57 PM
Is there a fact checker in the house?
Not sure. But the house was built in 2010. Not sure how long Buzz lived in Mequon.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
Not sure. But the house was built in 2010. Not sure how long Buzz lived in Mequon.
You can see previous owners on most real estate sites like zillow or trulia
Can't fact check on the court, but I can fact check on his budget for recruiting, what plane he chartered, and what he ate on the plane.
Does that help?
Guy loved candy bars.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on April 01, 2017, 03:11:28 PM
Not sure. But the house was built in 2010. Not sure how long Buzz lived in Mequon.
Buzz built the house and gym.
Facts. Real estate taxes as source.