philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
I'm curious, why didn't you post this after our win at Wisconsin where they had won 38 straight games. ::)
first off, there hasn't been many final four discussions this year.
secondly, i think Crean proved he is more than one and done in the tournament. Was someone else coaching the Final Four team in 2003?
I agree that tougher pre-conference games or road games would help. How is it that every weekend there are a handful of games that are great matchups. It seems like Gonzaga, Tennessee, Memphis, Mich. State, Kansas, etc. are always playing top tier competition. Not all teams do, I understand, but how about a couple more. I like playing Duke, UW, and OK State. That is a good start.
Also, I have read that Huggins knows Crean and MU so well, so the loss is understandable. Crean knows just as much. No?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
Just curious--are you predicting that Providence will finish ahead of Georgetown in the standings?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 06, 2008, 07:42:48 PM
I'm curious, why didn't you post this after our win at Wisconsin where they had won 38 straight games. ::)
I think the Wisconsin game kinda proves the point about the schedule. We didn't play them after 6 straight 40 point wins and we had a finer edge then. I thought we were awful against Savannah State and we still won by 40. Those games do more harm than good. I know they're a necessary evil, so I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm sure our players get a better run in practice than against the likes of Savannah State and IPFW.
*** I know they're a necessary evil, so I'm not sure what the answer is, but I'm sure our players get a better run in practice than against the likes of Savannah State and IPFW.
You can't have it both ways on this. If playing cupcakes affects how you play against better teams, there is no way in hell we beat UConn in 2006 after beating up on the likes of San Francisco (185 RPI) Oakland (285) Delaware State (123) and Lewis (D2).
Somehow, that year we were perfectly prepared to take on and blow out the #2 team in the land.
Plus, you're overlooking the fact that we had Providence in between--the same Providence team that played DePaul to a 5 point game, and almost tied it with 9 seconds to go.
I don't know about the cupcakes were as big of a deal as the fact that this was a road game. If this is at home the outcome is probably different. I wouldn't have objected to playing another road game earlier, because as hard as it is to play in Madison, it has a different effect being an in-state rivalry game, and we played it in our backyard, so the team slept in their own beds the night before.
Here we go again. More MU schedule nonsense.
Take away the top say, 5-10 traditional programs in the country, MU plays just as tough a non-conference schedule as anyone. And, in case people forget, men's hoops is the athletic department's bread and butter. They can't afford going on the road for a number of games when they rely on the revenue they can get from a home game vs. Savannah State and the like.
Everyone wants more tougher games. But if they did schedule two more tougher games and they lost them continuously, people would be bitching even more. At least we have Wisconsin every year and usually one premier pre-season tournament that gets us national exposure. That's really all you ask for this day and age unfortunately.
I can certainly appreciate the need for home games. However, having two home & home agreements where we play one other high profile game away from the BC every year would mean the loss of only one home game.
I don't think it is fair to blame the loss on not playing a road game, but I certainly think that it wouldn't hurt.
Not 38.
Let's get our facts straight.
Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on January 06, 2008, 07:45:20 PM
I agree that tougher pre-conference games or road games would help. How is it that every weekend there are a handful of games that are great matchups. It seems like Gonzaga, Tennessee, Memphis, Mich. State, Kansas, etc. are always playing top tier competition. Not all teams do, I understand, but how about a couple more. I like playing Duke, UW, and OK State. That is a good start.
Also, I have read that Huggins knows Crean and MU so well, so the loss is understandable. Crean knows just as much. No?
Everyone talks about Memphis and Gonzaga's schedule... well if you want, we can have these tough non-conference matchups.. and then play 16 games against mediocre teams in conference... do we really want to go back to Conf USA in order to have one or two big matchups in November/December... or do you want to be in the Big East and have the tough matchups in February/March?
We need to have four home and home schedules with quality teams, which would result in two non-conference road games. This could result in more TV money and more ticket sales for an opponent that would excite the fans such as Arizona did a few years ago. Besides that MU could raise the ticket prices to offset the loss. 11 non-conference home games at $30 a ticket is $330. 10 non-conference home games at $33 a ticket is $330, which equates in no lossed revenue. It will take a few more teams like Syracuse being left out the tournament, because of weak non-conference schedules before coaches wake up about this. I believe the Big East is only going to end up with 5 bids and in the long run this will be a good thing. However, the first thing we will hear is that the 18 game conference schedule is to blame.
Quote from: MU Avenue on January 06, 2008, 10:18:12 PM
Not 38.
Let's get our facts straight.
Sorry, I fat fingered it....if I recall it was the LONGEST STREAK IN THE COUNTRY, yet by some miracle we won despite not playing more games on the road. ::)
Quote from: bilsu on January 06, 2008, 10:25:17 PM
We need to have four home and home schedules with quality teams, which would result in two non-conference road games. This could result in more TV money and more ticket sales for an opponent that would excite the fans such as Arizona did a few years ago. Besides that MU could raise the ticket prices to offset the loss. 11 non-conference home games at $30 a ticket is $330. 10 non-conference home games at $33 a ticket is $330, which equates in no lossed revenue. It will take a few more teams like Syracuse being left out the tournament, because of weak non-conference schedules before coaches wake up about this. I believe the Big East is only going to end up with 5 bids and in the long run this will be a good thing. However, the first thing we will hear is that the 18 game conference schedule is to blame.
Can we get this bet going...the on about 5 bids...please...I'm begging for the $$$ ;)
There is NO WAY this league is going to only get 5 bids...NO WAY
Marquette
Uconn
Notre Dame
Villanova
Georgetown
Pittsburgh
West Virginia
They are all going to the tournament. Syracuse and/or Louisville will likely go as well.
This athletic department spent $22 million dollars last year on athletics. We've gone through this time and time again, it ain't happening for many reasons and those are tied to finances and going to the NCAA Tournament.
Syracuse's problem last year is who they lost to, not their schedule....their RPI wasn't very good, they lost to too many teams they shouldn't have and that killed them.
Quote from: bilsu on January 06, 2008, 10:25:17 PM
It will take a few more teams like Syracuse being left out the tournament, because of weak non-conference schedules before coaches wake up about this. I believe the Big East is only going to end up with 5 bids and in the long run this will be a good thing. However, the first thing we will hear is that the 18 game conference schedule is to blame.
A good thing? You WANT the Big East to break up so that we can join an A-10 like conference?
You are misplacing the blame here. The blame will lie with the teams who DID create tough schedules but then didn't win.
In case you missed it, Syracuse played several of those tough mid majors last year--they were left out of the NCAA tournament because they LOST those games! Syracuse lost to Wichita State, Drexel and Oklahoma State.
And instead of learning their lesson, they did it again THIS year, losing to URI, UMass and Ohio State.
DePaul is a textbook example of how one team can screw the league. With a 4-7 non-conference record, they have already played their way out of the NCAA tournament. Second, by beating teams like Villanova and Providence, they can only prove that those teams aren't deserving of an NCAA bid either. Finally, every team in the league is going to get the "benefit" of the 4-7 non-conference record that DePaul brings to the table.
There was an article a couple months ago about the relationship between OOC SOS and post season success. It was on ESPN.com or SI.com, I forget where, and I just spent about 30 minutes trying to find the darn thing but couldn't track it down. But I remember the facts proved to be counterintuitive, in that final four teams historically have weaker OOC schedules. Tough early season schedules don't translate to success in March, and possibly hurt. Bubble teams (like Syracuse last year) might be another story, but the evidence for final four teams in this arena was solid: Cupcakes are good for you.
I'd say there's a better chance the Big East gets 8 bids rather than just five. I'd say Syracuse, Pitt, nova, MU, Gtown, UConn, WV, ND are all in if they draw the bracket tonight, and Prov and UL could certainly do enough to get there in the next two months.
We need a tough road game involving a large travel distance late in December prior to the BE season. Road games are tough----travel fatique plus unfamiliar daily routine/schedule puts the visitor at a distinct disadvantage (everything else being equal)!
Yeah, that trip to Hawaii is like crossing the street.
You people are funny. No doubt road games present a different test, but many of you act as if losing at WVU is unheard of. Guess what...everyone loses at WVU. Playing some non-conference raod game is not going to change that. Good teams win at home. I can only assume those of you saying this is somehow the result of the schedule were expecting MU to go 18-0 in the BE.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
Gross overreaction after a road loss but you got your desired attention.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
This is a fresh topic and profound insight, especially coming off of a road conference loss.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 07, 2008, 10:57:35 AM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
This is a fresh topic and profound insight, especially coming off of a road conference loss.
Perfect use of the sarcasm font. Well played.
Like spiral, I'd vote for a different convention. Teal makes me want to click as if it's a link :'(
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 07, 2008, 02:38:46 PM
Like spiral, I'd vote for a different convention. Teal makes me want to click as if it's a link :'(
hahah... I know, I know. I guess I just laugh because I do the same thing (clicky clicky) and then I realize the sarcasm.
I guess I think it's funnier if people try to click and then realize what I was really getting at.
Either way, my statement stands that a comment like this rings EXTREMELY hollow coming off a road loss. I don't post how great the schedule is when MU gets a road win, so why do people post how bad it is coming off of a road loss.
The team and players aren't perfect... weather they played an easy or tough non-conf. schedule... MU will lose more games this year (I'm projecting 4 more times in conf. play).
Navin Johnson----you present an apples to oranges comparison-----Hawaii was in November and the BE season begins in January-----furthermore the teams we played except for cupcake Charminade were not home teams (neutal floor).
Need to schedule a TOUGH road game in late December in front of a hostile crowd at a long distance from Milwaukee. We lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win
been enough convo about that so I just started up this thread in the suggestions board: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=5414.0
Until we all agree on something, please please please no more teal colored text. *beg*
Quote from: Murffieus on January 07, 2008, 02:53:57 PM
Navin Johnson----you present an apples to oranges comparison-----Hawaii was in November and the BE season begins in January-----furthermore the teams we played except for cupcake Charminade were not home teams (neutal floor).
Need to schedule a TOUGH road game in late December in front of a hostile crowd at a long distance from Milwaukee. We lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win
But Murff you are the same person that always complains about a late season swoon.....wouldn't a December tough road game only further fatigue us once we go into conference play?
Also this is BS.....the only players that have never played in front of Big East road crowd is Christopherson and he played in the last minute of garbage time. These players have played and won at Pitt, at Louisville, and at UConn in the last two years.....how much difference would a game in December really make? In fact the majority of the players played at WVU the last time we got spanked there.
Lastly, look at all the major school's schedule......there are very very few that schedule tough games, let alone tough road games within 3 weeks of the start of conference play.
Actually, a cupcake schedule like ours would be understandable if we were inexperienced and needed some confidence builders. The fact that we do have experience...as mu03eng explains...makes this year's schedule all the more inexcusable.
Of course, Chicos has already used the athletic budget as an excuse. That's right out of the talking points since we know that they're practically lighting cigars with $20 bills at The Al.
So if we rattle off 4 or 5 straight wins starting with Seton Hall do we
a) Still gripe about the schedule not preparing us or
b) Give props to the schedule for preparing some of our younger guys with actual playing experience
The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday. We are not an elite team like NC. We will have some stinkers. We will win some big ones.
Quote from: mufanatic on January 07, 2008, 04:09:33 PM
The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.
I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 07, 2008, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: mufanatic on January 07, 2008, 04:09:33 PM
The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.
I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!
LOL. PRN, at least you can agree with the topic at hand.
Murff, you can't get more hostile than Madison, and we won there. I'm sorry the Celtics were booked for late December.
Once again, it's time to insert a little fact.
Here is the sum total of road games played by Big East teams between 12/15 and 12/31 this year:
12/19: USF @ Wake Forest
12/19: West Virginia @ Radford
12/22: Georgetown @ Memphis
12/22: West Virginia @ Canisius
12/23: Cincy @ NC State
12/28: UConn @ Central Florida
12/29: DePaul @ Detroit
12/29: Pitt @ Dayton
Source: MU Media Guide, composite Big East Schedule pp 97-99
There were several additional neutral court games at events including the San Juan shootout, Rainbow Classic, Wooden Invitational, etc, but I've excluded those because, as Murff says, those are apples versus oranges.
You make it sound like everyone but MU plays tough road games. Take out the DePaul, UConn and WVU wins, at teams that don't fit the description of "TOUGH" and we find that just four big east teams--Pitt, Georgetown Cincy and USF--played tough road games in late December. Let's look at how they did in their first road games:
USF lost at Syracuse, despite playing at Wake Forest two weeks prior.
Georgetown won at Rutgers, but can you seriously credit it to playing at Memphis?
Cincy won at UL, lost at St. Johns --
Pitt lost at Villanova--that game at Dayton didn't help them win.
That sure doesn't make the case that a tough road game helps you win.
Quote from: Murffieus on January 07, 2008, 02:53:57 PMWe lose too many away first time conference away games that we should win
Really? We should have won that game? Sorry but winning at West Virginia is not easy. Vegas didn't think we should have won...we were underdogs. Yes, we have a great team (STILL...even with a loss...imagine that, a great team having a bad day...unheard of, right?) and have a CHANCE to beat any opponent at any venue, but I don't think it's very fair to say we SHOULD have won that game yesterday. We played poorly and lost to a good team.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 07, 2008, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: mufanatic on January 07, 2008, 04:09:33 PM
The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.
I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!
Speaking of punishing loyalty are you going to the late start-time game tomorrow night?
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on January 07, 2008, 05:56:04 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 07, 2008, 04:12:29 PM
Quote from: mufanatic on January 07, 2008, 04:09:33 PM
The schedule we have played had nothing to do with our poor performance yesterday.
I agree. But the schedule blows and punishes season ticket holders for their loyalty!
Speaking of punishing loyalty are you going to the late start-time game tomorrow night?
no doubt Crean scheduled these 8 pm games
just to piss off PRN.
Actually prn, iused the schedule and ncaa tourney excuse (which leads to money).
We have a great formula that is proven, a formula used by almost all the top schools that results ib post season bids and money to fund the department.
We can't be like ohio state (I'm here in vegas wathcing the game)....$105MM budget so we'll have to go with what we know works and has treated mu well for decades.
This isn't hard
Quote from: Coobeys Oil Depot on January 07, 2008, 09:32:31 AM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 06, 2008, 07:40:26 PM
philosophy. I know all about the need for buy games. But, there are just way too many pansies on the schedule. A glorified home "practice" game will never get a team tough enough to compete on the road in a rough conference like the BE. As good as Memphis appears right now, I don't think their schedule will help in any way in March.And, since the Warriors lack talent in key areas and have now been exposed, can we stop the Final Four discussions at least until Crean proves he is more than one and done in the Tournament.
Gross overreaction after a road loss but you got your desired attention.
I have to agree. I think "attention" is why 4everwarriors post. Can you imagine how sad that is? A grown adult gets pleasure by anonymously posting comments solely designed to irritate people on an internet board. Wow.
i echo the 'understanding the need for cupcake games', but how about this strength of non conference schedule....
Villanova, @ Notre Dame, Wisconsin, @ Dayton, & Wake Forest
yep, those were the top non-conference games from the 2002-2003 season for our Marquette Golden Eagles.
it just proves having a strong non-conference schedule can work (even at MU with mbb being the revenue sport) and it does do some good for a team later in the season.
Quote from: muPARTY on January 08, 2008, 11:25:22 AM
i echo the 'understanding the need for cupcake games', but how about this strength of non conference schedule....
Villanova, @ Notre Dame, Wisconsin, @ Dayton, & Wake Forest
yep, those were the top non-conference games from the 2002-2003 season for our Marquette Golden Eagles.
it just proves having a strong non-conference schedule can work (even at MU with mbb being the revenue sport) and it does do some good for a team later in the season.
Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina. We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 07, 2008, 07:57:51 PM
Actually prn, iused the schedule and ncaa tourney excuse (which leads to money).
We have a great formula that is proven, a formula used by almost all the top schools that results ib post season bids and money to fund the department.
We can't be like ohio state (I'm here in vegas wathcing the game)....$105MM budget so we'll have to go with what we know works and has treated mu well for decades.
This isn't hard
Chicos -- How can you say that when we're spending $41K for a breathing chamber and bringing in assistants (probably two of them) who make at least $200K per year? This is not to mention wasteful spending like renting a limousine to take Crean to visit recruits in the middle of the night?
I understand we have budget issues, but it seems to me that a) we're not as poor as we claim; b) there isn't nearly enough oversight in the athletic department as there should be and c)we're using these cupcake games not as part of some magic formula, but to line the athletic department coffers for more wasteful spending!
When you were at MU, was the program spending like they are now? I highly doubt it. My point is...why don't we try spending a little less on crap and, instead, give the fans a decent non-conference home game once every other year (and a road one on alternate years).
Quote from: mu03eng on January 08, 2008, 11:31:47 AM
Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina. We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore
first of all, USF we do play and barely beat them last yr on a last sec shot.
UAB beat us that yr in the Conference Tournament, they also went on to win the C-USA reg season title in 04-05 (we didn't)
the Big East has it's cupcakes at the bottom, plus C-USA was strong for a couple years there toward the end (final 3 seasons) with i believe 6 teams going to the dance in 05 (MU not being one). hell 5 of them are Big East teams now.
i'm not trying to be a dick here, i was just pointing out that MU has had a very good balance of cupcakes and top-tier teams scheduled in the non-conference and it occurred in a season that turned out to be pretty good.
It's like clockwork. No matter the Marquette message board, there's always a thread on scheduling.
It's about time for a nickname debate thread I believe. :D
Don't click this Spiral and Rocky!
Maybe we could have a board for never ending topics and all the nickname/scheduling threads could be viewed there!
I think the schedule needs to be tougher just to increase the entertainment value of the season - I feel like I'm going to get ripped for that - but aside from the Wisconsin game, what was the point of December? It was just a whole lot of nothing, but waiting for the conference season to begin. Couldn't we have added a decent name to the schedule just to generate some interest. What's the point of beating Savannah State?
And I do think the cupcake schedule affected our performance against WV. I realize that WV was ranked and is a good team, but a team we should definitely beat. In watching the game, it seemed to me that MU thought it could turn it on when we wanted to - we didn't play with the same type of urgency that was required against a team like WV. The turn-it-on mindset occurs when a team gets full of itself as MU might have done after feasting on so many cupcakes and then beating Providence so easily. Playing a more legitimate opponent in December may have kept MU honest on Saturday.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on January 08, 2008, 11:54:45 AM
but aside from the Wisconsin game, what was the point of December?
The point is primarily money. Not sure why people don't understand that, or have such a problem with it. I'd prefer to see Savanah St, and IPFW replaced with UCLA, and Memphis as much as the next guy, but I also don't live in fantasy land. If I want good lower level seats for the Big East games, I have no choice but to buy a full season, and pay for all of those games. I don't necessarily like it, but I understand it and I do it. Every team college and pro does this in some respect. Whether it is buy games, seat licenses, you name it. MU is charging what the market will bear. Giving up that extra game or two to schedule a home and home or two would be nice from a good will perspective, but would be very expensive.
Quote from: muPARTY on January 08, 2008, 11:51:45 AM
Quote from: mu03eng on January 08, 2008, 11:31:47 AM
Yeah but remember that we also schedule those games when we were in C-USA playing the likes of UAB and USF and East Carolina. We don't play nearly that easy of a conference schedule anymore
first of all, USF we do play and barely beat them last yr on a last sec shot.
UAB beat us that yr in the Conference Tournament, they also went on to win the C-USA reg season title in 04-05 (we didn't)
the Big East has it's cupcakes at the bottom, plus C-USA was strong for a couple years there toward the end (final 3 seasons) with i believe 6 teams going to the dance in 05 (MU not being one). hell 5 of them are Big East teams now.
i'm not trying to be a dick here, i was just pointing out that MU has had a very good balance of cupcakes and top-tier teams scheduled in the non-conference and it occurred in a season that turned out to be pretty good.
Party, I see your point, but what I was poorly trying to say is the aggregate schedule is at a minimum the quality as in 2003 and I would argue better this year. The conference schedule is much better this year, but the non-conference is lesser this year compared to 2003. So I'm arguing that the conference schedule improvement was better than the non-conference degradation.
The current admin likes the setup...sexy pre season tourney where hype & press is available, Bucky and a ton of filler that helps get you to the once important 20 win plateau.
We will always be successful in the sexy preseason events b/c we prepare harder than everyone and as long as Bucky is good, it makes us look good.
The University has yet to say no to Tom Crean, money is not the issue (see Chamber, Hyperbaric). The issue is, it's working, so why fix it. We've gotten to the Dance, we're getting tickets sold. I don't like it but that's the way it is now.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on January 08, 2008, 11:54:45 AM
And I do think the cupcake schedule affected our performance against WV. I realize that WV was ranked and is a good team, but a team we should definitely beat. In watching the game, it seemed to me that MU thought it could turn it on when we wanted to - we didn't play with the same type of urgency that was required against a team like WV. The turn-it-on mindset occurs when a team gets full of itself as MU might have done after feasting on so many cupcakes and then beating Providence so easily. Playing a more legitimate opponent in December may have kept MU honest on Saturday.
Can you please explain how we managed to beat UConn in 2006? Based on your assessment, after feasting on the cupcakes I don't see how it was possible to play with the intensity required to smoke the Huskies like we did.
In fact, can you please explain how we managed to beat Providence! Unless you're going to argue that PC is essentially no better than Savannah State, your same prinicple should apply to that game as well--feasting on cupcakes should have provided no preparation whatsoever to play a quality team like Providence--even in their injury weakened state.
Frankly, I think the problem against WVU this year (and Cincy in 2006) is NOT that we beat cupcakes handily, but that we won our first CONFERENCE game so handily!
To accept your viewpoint, one must to believe that our players completely ignored that we blew out Providence and UConn!
Plus you have to think our players are absolute
idiots to suggest that they equate Savannah State and West Virginia.
Wouldn't anyone with half a brain instantly understand that Providence is MUCH CLOSER to the talent level of West Virginia than Savannah State is?
But you're seriously suggesting here that our players saw Providence as no different than a cupcake--and in fact think more of their ability based on their play against the cupcakes rather than their play against Providence.
Let's be real: the reason why our players thought they could turn it on when they wanted against West Virginia is NOT because they beat cupcakes, but because the beat PROVIDENCE so handily! Period.
And then, lest they had any self doubt that the win over Providence wasn't just against an weak team due to injuries, our players saw DePaul and Providence play a close game--PC missed a game-tying 3 with under 10 seconds to go.
Same thing in 2006. UConn comes in ranked #2 in the country, and we beat them and made it look easy.
Do you really feel that when our guys stepped on the court against Cincy that they were thinking back about Lewis? Complete BS! They were thinking about UConn--you and I both know that.
So when our guys stepped on the court against West Virginia, do you REALLY believe that they were NOT thinking about PROVIDENCE, and instead thinking about Savannah State and Coppin State?
SJS/84----every team is different on how they handle road games----UCONN was a HOME game. We have struggled early on on the road over the years------IMO need a quality road game just before the BE season starts!
Quote from: Murffieus on January 08, 2008, 01:06:07 PM
SJS/84----every team is different on how they handle road games----UCONN was a HOME game. We have struggled early on on the road over the years------IMO need a quality road game just before the BE season starts!
Murff I will ask you again, are you saying that our players have forgotten at least one year of tough road game conference games experience as well as the road Madison game at the beginning of Madison??? Are you actually saying if we played a tough road game on December 22nd instead of December 8th we would have won at WVU???
Plus what does that do to us from a late season swoon you always complain about??
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 11:44:50 AM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 07, 2008, 07:57:51 PM
Actually prn, iused the schedule and ncaa tourney excuse (which leads to money).
We have a great formula that is proven, a formula used by almost all the top schools that results ib post season bids and money to fund the department.
We can't be like ohio state (I'm here in vegas wathcing the game)....$105MM budget so we'll have to go with what we know works and has treated mu well for decades.
This isn't hard
Chicos -- How can you say that when we're spending $41K for a breathing chamber and bringing in assistants (probably two of them) who make at least $200K per year? This is not to mention wasteful spending like renting a limousine to take Crean to visit recruits in the middle of the night?
I understand we have budget issues, but it seems to me that a) we're not as poor as we claim; b) there isn't nearly enough oversight in the athletic department as there should be and c)we're using these cupcake games not as part of some magic formula, but to line the athletic department coffers for more wasteful spending!
When you were at MU, was the program spending like they are now? I highly doubt it. My point is...why don't we try spending a little less on crap and, instead, give the fans a decent non-conference home game once every other year (and a road one on alternate years).
For the sake of argument, I'll say I agree with you that MU is wasteful in it's spending and that's why they have to schedule so many "buy games".
The flip side of the argument is that YOU THE CONSUMER keep buying the product, so why are you complaining? MU is a private institution. They can schedule and/or charge whatever they like. If you don't like it, don't buy tickets.
I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
It's like buying a Corvette and then complaining about how it isn't good in the snow. Corvettes have never been good in the snow, so why do you expect it to change?
84,
My premise is that the cupcakes coupled with the easy win over Providence led this team to think they could turn it on when they wanted to. It made them believe that they were better than they were and they were humbled by the loss to WV. Had they played one road game in December against a quality opponent, perhaps they realized sooner how much it takes to win on the road against a quality opponent. Perhaps it affects their mental approach as they face WVU and if it does, it saves us from losing a BE game.
I don't think playing #2 UCONN at home is a good comparison to this game. MU is always ready to play a highly-ranked opponent either at home or away. My problem with the loss on Saturday is that I think MU is a better team than WV but we lost b/c we didn't give a full 40 minutes because we became overconfident after feasting on cupcakes and then blowing Providence out.
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
Maybe it was just too cold for them.
A ha!! Another personal attack by SJS! I love it!
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
A ha!! Another personal attack by SJS! I love it!
So you're not going to the game tonight.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
Wow...that's taking a reach. One guy at SI said it was a bad non-conference schedule, but the magazine did not do some kind of rating nor did that guy say it was the WORST of any ranked team, only that of a handful of teams he talked about he decided to comment.
The fact that he wouldn't say Washington State's isn't the worst is proof enough....their OOC schedule is in the 280's.
Quote from: AlumKCof93 on January 08, 2008, 02:06:51 PM
84,
My premise is that the cupcakes coupled with the easy win over Providence led this team to think they could turn it on when they wanted to.
And my premise is that Providence alone caused that effect.
Providence was a preseason pick to finish in the top 8 and make the NCAA, WVU was picked 10th. So the experts all told us that Providence was better than WVU. So if you beat Providence by 29, a player might get the impression that they can even ease up against West Virginia and still win by 10.
Pretending that Providence didn't mean a whole lot more than beating the cupcakes requires one to suspend all common sense.
***Had they played one road game in December against a quality opponent, perhaps they realized sooner how much it takes to win on the road against a quality opponent.
And of course, our players have such limited mental capacity that the completely forgot that they played Wisconsin on December 8th! And they forgot how tough that game was. I'm sure they thought it was a walk in the park.
*** I don't think playing #2 UCONN at home is a good comparison to this game. MU is always ready to play a highly-ranked opponent either at home or away.
Now you say that playing cupcakes has no influence!
Plus, you miss 2/3 of the comparison--I wasn't comparing UConn to WVU. I was comparing a six game sequence in 2006 to a similar six games in 2008
Here's the heart of the comparison:
2006: Play 4 cupcakes, easily beat UConn, lose the next game to Cincy.
2008: Play 4 cupcakes, easily beat Providence, lose the next game to WVU
My argument is that UConn and Providence provided nearly all the influence on our players for the following game.
**** My problem with the loss on Saturday is that I think MU is a better team than WV but we lost b/c we didn't give a full 40 minutes because we became overconfident after feasting on cupcakes and then blowing Providence out.
I love how you continue to treat Providence just another cupcake. They were considered a solid NCAA team before the MU game. Our board was filled with concern about how tough they were inside. They have a first-team all-conference player in McDermott. They were picked to finish ahead of WVU in the standings.
And yet, you continue to imply that our players are seemingly unable to understand the difference between Providence and a cupcake.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 04:36:40 PM
A ha!! Another personal attack by SJS! I love it!
I'm merely pointing out that some people find it hard to get to the games when it's cold out.
Wouldn't you agree?
Here are some of the current out of conference ratings for teams ranked (out of conference schedules only)
Georgetown 241
Marquette 182
Washington State 285
UCLA 146
Indiana 229
Texas A&M 144
Duke 113
Miami 260
Mississippi 187
Stanford 232
Sure there are some teams ranked in the top 50 Schedule strength just as there are plenty around us or much much worse.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
This is my point, if you feel you are getting screwed, don't buy the tickets. Nothing personal.
Honest. It. Is. That. Simple.
If enough consumers stop buying tickets, MU will be forced to make changes to the schedule to attract consumers.
It's simple economics.
I don't think bitching on this message board is going to make MU change.
Money talks and BS walks.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
Couple things .. first, your 65% full estimate is way off. I go to nearly every cupcake game, and keep close watch on the attendance. 4-5 yearss ago, I'd agree with you. But the past 3 seasons, something is different. The lower bowl is 80-90% full, easy. Now, a crapload of those people aren't the actual buyers of the seats, as they're given away like water, lots of non-fans and children. But the games far far FAR more attended than they used to be.
.. Also .. I gotta say, the $42,000 spent on an oxygen chamber doesn't bother me in the least. Jesus, the Al Center cost $31m. Should we not have built that because it cost too much? The chamber is a piece of equipment that'll last a decade for a top 25 team (and women's team, and soccer team, etc). $42k is close to what it'd cost for one extra secretary in the building for one year. It's a pittance. Spread over 10+ years? No brainer, if it gives your guys 5% more endurance. That's like one victory. I'd pay $5k/year for +1 game. We all would.
As for the $200k assistants .. first, I believe you're grabbing those figures out of the sky, as they've never been published. But I'd say one guy at 200k, one at 100k, and the rest are probably making $50k. So maybe we're $100k thick on assistants. I'll pay that if they're quality and they stick around.
Bottom line .. we should remain a top 25 team for years to come. Not so much Crean, but the entire University has decided not to cheap out on basketball nor any of their sports. And I buy that argument. First class recruiting and training gets you in the same room with 4 and 5 star guys, a place we haven't been in decades.
That all being said, I think the revenue streams for MU trend upward. BE money, NCAA money, ESPN money, all are going up. Not to mention attendance and the willingness of STHs to improve their seats by donations. -- SO. I'd say the pressure (and funds) to get a H&H with a quality team is also going up. And we were closer this year than ever, as the reports said, we were in talks with 3 decent teams, all who unfortunately needed us at their home court first.
Of course, I do strongly desire at least one more quality team on our OOC schedule. Last year's OOC slate may have been the worst. This year, it was a couple pegs better.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 08, 2008, 06:29:19 PM
That all being said, I think the revenue streams for MU trend upward. BE money, NCAA money, ESPN money, all are going up. Not to mention attendance and the willingness of STHs to improve their seats by donations. -- SO. I'd say the pressure (and funds) to get a H&H with a quality team is also going up. And we were closer this year than ever, as the reports said, we were in talks with 3 decent teams, all who unfortunately needed us at their home court first.
Of course, I do strongly desire at least one more quality team on our OOC schedule. Last year's OOC slate may have been the worst. This year, it was a couple pegs better.
I think the only reason we're hearing about these "near" misses is to placate the consumers. I do not believe any serious efforts were made. Isn't it strange that for the 1st time ever Coach Crean talked about something that normally he regarded as national security?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 08, 2008, 05:43:25 PM
Here are some of the current out of conference ratings for teams ranked (out of conference schedules only)
Georgetown 241
Marquette 182
Washington State 285
UCLA 146
Indiana 229
Texas A&M 144
Duke 113
Miami 260
Mississippi 187
Stanford 232
Sure there are some teams ranked in the top 50 Schedule strength just as there are plenty around us or much much worse.
Aren't we talking about the games Marquette schedules in Milwaukee?
Quote from: HarveysWallbangers on January 08, 2008, 07:48:00 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 08, 2008, 05:43:25 PM
Here are some of the current out of conference ratings for teams ranked (out of conference schedules only)
Georgetown 241
Marquette 182
Washington State 285
UCLA 146
Indiana 229
Texas A&M 144
Duke 113
Miami 260
Mississippi 187
Stanford 232
Sure there are some teams ranked in the top 50 Schedule strength just as there are plenty around us or much much worse.
Aren't we talking about the games Marquette schedules in Milwaukee?
Yup, but you pretty much aren't going to have an SOS in the 200's unless you're scheduling the same kind of teams those other schools are.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
I thought Crean drove a Lexus.
the way the team is playing tonight, had we scheduled a tougher OOC schedule we might be looking at an NIT bid.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 08, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
I thought Crean drove a Lexus.
I don't get it. "I thought Crean drove a Lexus." ?????? Honestly, is that the best you have? You already got the attention you wanted by making the first post. You are in your 50's and you get off on irratating people on a messsage board?
Quote from: ernie on January 08, 2008, 10:47:44 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 08, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
I thought Crean drove a Lexus.
I don't get it. "I thought Crean drove a Lexus." ?????? Honestly, is that the best you have? You already got the attention you wanted by making the first post. You are in your 50's and you get off on irratating people on a messsage board?
Come on now...you didn't get a laugh out of that?
Quote from: ernie on January 08, 2008, 10:47:44 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 08, 2008, 08:36:05 PM
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on January 08, 2008, 02:17:32 PM
Quote from: 2002mualum on January 08, 2008, 01:35:20 PM
[I can't say I blame you for not liking the weak non-conf. schedule (it's not as entertaining)... but I can blame you for continuing to buy tickets to something you seem to dislike so much.
There is nothing I enjoy more than going to Marquette games...the pathetic non-conference home schedule, judged by at least one national publication as the worst of any ranked team, is reason to not attend.
Anybody who has attended one of these buy games can attest the Bradley Center is a morgue and the lower bowl is generally about 65 percent full (despite the announced attendance).
I may be alone in my stated opinions on this board, but the fans dressed as empty seats seem to agree with me.
I repeat...I do not believe our schedule is to blame for our loss to West Virginia. We simply got outplayed in a tough venue. My point is that the non-conference HOME schedule this year is a complete screw job.
Incidentally, I would never buy a Corvette. Those kind of cars are for guys who take karate lessons, wear jewelry and have fake tans.
I thought Crean drove a Lexus.
I don't get it. "I thought Crean drove a Lexus." ?????? Honestly, is that the best you have? You already got the attention you wanted by making the first post. You are in your 50's and you get off on irratating people on a messsage board?
he actually drives an Escalade...white one
No.
1. I don't get the "joke".
2. It seems clear his intent is to annoy as opposed to inform / discus.
3. Is anything he posts compelling / insightful / thoughtful OR is it meant just to irritate?
If the moderators are serious about their mission statement thy would take action.
Quote from: ernie on January 08, 2008, 10:56:27 PM
If the moderators are serious about their mission statement thy would take action.
Agreed.. and so I will.. Ernie - chill out.. it was a joke. You're the one making it out to be anything beyond that really. Don't make me start deleting your posts. :P
Mission statement? We have a mission statement? I'm thinking our mission statement centers around having discussions people read. This one, for example, has been read 1145 times. That's a hell of a lot.
Debate the guy. Tell him you your reasons for thinking he's an idiot. Don't go crying for censorship when you think someone has committed the sin of irritation.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on January 08, 2008, 11:08:18 PM
Mission statement? We have a mission statement?
oh great.. the secret is out.. now we gotta go make up some stupid mission statement.. thanks a lot topper.. :D