MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: Tugg Speedman on March 02, 2017, 12:15:36 PM
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He wants to get paid again next year and he knows the protests made him toxic.
Follow the money and that is your answer.
Colin Kaepernick won't protest during national anthem during 2017 season
12:20 p.m. ET March 2, 2017
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/49ers/2017/03/02/colin-kaepernick-ends-national-anthem-protest-san-francisco/98636316/
Colin Kaepernick's national anthem protest won’t carry over into next season, USA TODAY Sports confirmed Thursday.
Kaepernick, who is expected to opt out of his contract with the San Francisco 49ers, either sat or kneeled while The Star-Spangled Banner was played before Niners games last season, a protest meant to draw attention to racial inequality and police brutality. He will discontinue his public protest in 2017, wherever he plays next season, a person with knowledge of Kaepernick's plans told USA TODAY Sports' Tom Pelissero.
The person requested anonymity because Kaepernick has not yet made his decision public.
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(http://www.patricialadd.com/wp-content/uploads/missionaccomplished-640x360.png)
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It's an intelligent business decision but it is disappointing.
Either you stand for something (so to speak) or you don't.
He had already lost me long ago when he wore those shameful "pig" socks and when he said Twitler and Hill were "equally racist."
Does not appear to be a highly intelligent young man, and now he doesn't even have his principles to fall back on.
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It's an intelligent business decision but it is disappointing.
Either you stand for something (so to speak) or you don't.
He had already lost me long ago when he wore those shameful "pig" socks and when he said Twitler and Hill were "equally racist."
Does not appear to be a highly intelligent young man, and now he doesn't even have his principles to fall back on.
+1
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Eh. It's a business decision no doubt, but he also achieved what he was going for: it got people talking about something many in the country are uncomfortable talking about. Not the best mouth piece for the Biggest Issue in American history and politics, perhaps, but the amount of vitriol levied toward the kid served to illuminate the point that it's indeed the Big Issue.
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I assume this is the formerly Yukon/Heise/whatever his former name was that is now posting every article that pops up on Yahoo to MUScoop?
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I assume this is the formerly Yukon/Heise/whatever his former name was that is now posting every article that pops up on Yahoo to MUScoop?
Hey, each of us have a calling.
Smuggles' ego has been bruised by his horrendous AAPL call, so now he's going for attention wherever he can find it.
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I admired his principles. Now, just another person who sold out.
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I assume this is the formerly Yukon/Heise/whatever his former name was that is now posting every article that pops up on Yahoo to MUScoop?
Didn't even notice that! Sneaky little bugger.
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Krapernick is a certified, boneheaded, idiot who actually thought people gave a chit about his ideas and causes. Thank yo lucky stars, each dey for beein' able to get paid megna sums of dinero for doin' absolutely nothin' that betters dis world or makes a difference beyond watercooler talk, ai na?
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Krapernick is a certified, boneheaded, idiot who actually thought people gave a chit about his ideas and causes. Thank yo lucky stars, each dey for beein' able to get paid megna sums of dinero for doin' absolutely nothin' that betters dis world or makes a difference beyond watercooler talk, ai na?
Yet here you are talking about it 8 months later...ai na
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Hey, each of us have a calling.
Smuggles' ego has been bruised by his horrendous AAPL call, so now he's going for attention wherever he can find it.
Didn't even notice that! Sneaky little bugger.
Just wanted confirmation of it. Started noticing some "new" poster I didn't recognize that was suddenly posting a bunch of random articles, realized I hadn't seen Yukon in a bit, then noticed this "new" poster had 8K posts, and put 2+2+2 together. Clicks must've been going down, time for a name update.
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Yet here you are talking about it 8 months later...ai na
+100
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#1 Rule of Business. Don't piss off your customers.
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Eh. It's a business decision no doubt, but he also achieved what he was going for: it got people talking about something many in the country are uncomfortable talking about. Not the best mouth piece for the Biggest Issue in American history and politics, perhaps, but the amount of vitriol levied toward the kid served to illuminate the point that it's indeed the Big Issue.
Did it really achieve anything though? Did people actually start openly discussing the oppression of minorities? Has he personally done anything to help minorities in this country? Has anything change as a direct result of his protest? Or...
Did people spend significantly more time talking about Colin Kaepernick and his diminished QB skills and his huge contract and his privileged upbringing and how he's a traitor and not that bright, etc?
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Just wanted confirmation of it. Started noticing some "new" poster I didn't recognize that was suddenly posting a bunch of random articles, realized I hadn't seen Yukon in a bit, then noticed this "new" poster had 8K posts, and put 2+2+2 together. Clicks must've been going down, time for a name update.
Its me ... and I will be doing this regularly ... because I can.
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Krapernick is a certified, boneheaded, idiot who actually thought people gave a chit about his ideas and causes. Thank yo lucky stars, each dey for beein' able to get paid megna sums of dinero for doin' absolutely nothin' that betters dis world or makes a difference beyond watercooler talk, ai na?
100% correct. He's not getting paid anymore to play football and trying to make himself attractive ... no one needs this kind of headache for a third string QB.
Restated, the league is going to punish him for these protests, just will not call it that. Chick is correct as to why he is getting punished.
#1 Rule of Business. Don't piss off your customers.
He's unbalanced ... like those that admire him.
I blame the Russians (the wacko left's version of the birthers)
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Did it really achieve anything though? Did people actually start openly discussing the oppression of minorities? Has he personally done anything to help minorities in this country? Has anything change as a direct result of his protest? Or...
Did people spend significantly more time talking about Colin Kaepernick and his diminished QB skills and his huge contract and his privileged upbringing and how he's a traitor and not that bright, etc?
Well, the large number of people who reacted to the protest so acidly (and branded him a "traitor" and attacked his intelligence, like crazy ol' Heisy here ⇈) served as a perfect illustration of why some people in the country might feel disaffected.
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The disaffected turned out to vote in November not the rioters and paid protestors
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Did it really achieve anything though? Did people actually start openly discussing the oppression of minorities? Has he personally done anything to help minorities in this country? Has anything change as a direct result of his protest?
If you cared even the teeny, tinyest little bit, you could google "Kaepernick charity" and the you would know that he donated $1,000,000 to communities in need. His protest of racial inequality of the U.S. is now more than just symbolic, it's backed by his own money. That represents over 15% of his pay for football.
But, of course, you don't care at all.
I wonder how much some of the people on this board contributed to charity last year to try to make the world a better place. Much easier (and cheaper) to bash anyone you disagree with.
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Yet here you are talking about it 8 months later...ai na
Dude, I wouldn't walk across the street to acknowledge his presence, hey?
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If you cared even the teeny, tinyest little bit, you could google "Kaepernick charity" and the you would know that he donated $1,000,000 to communities in need. His protest of racial inequality of the U.S. is now more than just symbolic, it's backed by his own money. That represents over 15% of his pay for football.
But, of course, you don't care at all.
I wonder how much some of the people on this board contributed to charity last year to try to make the world a better place. Much easier (and cheaper) to bash anyone you disagree with.
That's a pretty ignorant and accusatory personal attack, especially considering you don't know me at all or know anything about my personal finances or charitable work. In the spirit of the Lenten season, I'm going to be the bigger man and let it slide though. Best of luck in all your efforts to make the world a better place!
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i stand for the national anthem, respect the flag, respect those who served to give me my freedoms, and i don't write stupid notes on my patients who are cops walk-out statements. i not only do charity work, but i donate as well. AND, with the exception of this board, i don't announce this to everyone in the world. i've helped the less fortunate with out making an arse of myself and i consider myself better than 3rd string.
the "C" man could have quietly gone about doing the same, but his new girlfriend must have had a bet with him or something. if you really loved me.....now he walks around like the dude in the cialis commercials with a chit-eaten grin, but no team to mix it up with-classic
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Looking more and more like Kaepernick has played his last snap in the NFL.
The Seahawks passed on him in favor of a guy that has already been arrested twice this off-season and another who has not played in two years.
Austin Davis signing likely shuts door on Seahawks-Kaepernick deal
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19549748/seattle-seahawks-sign-austin-davis-backup-quarterback
The Seattle Seahawks announced Monday that they have signed quarterback Austin Davis.
Davis will join Trevone Boykin as a backup option behind Russell Wilson. The team waived quarterback Jake Heaps.
Davis and Colin Kaepernick visited with the Seahawks two weeks ago. Coach Pete Carroll praised Kaepernick last week but indicated that the team had no plans to sign him.
Davis, 28, spent time last season with the Denver Broncos. He hasn't played in a game since 2015, when he made two starts for the Cleveland Browns. Davis has thrown 13 touchdown passes and 12 interceptions in 13 career games (10 starts).
Boykin was arrested twice earlier this offseason -- once for misdemeanor charges of marijuana possession and public intoxication and another time for possibly violating his parole because of the incident. He has been practicing with the Seahawks during organized team activities.
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Meh. Kapernick will get picked up sometime in August after rosters are pared down or in September when Brady sprains his ankle.
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Couldn't happen ta a more deservin' ass hole. Karma's a bitch, ai na?
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shoulda learned from the experts, eyyn'er?
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Couldn't happen ta a more deservin' ass hole. Karma's a bitch, ai na?
Just so I have this right, you have held this high of standard for every professional athlete that has drove drunk or high or beat up his significant other
Ain't tryin to break the rules on the board, but the fact he kneeled during a National Anthem is quote more detrimental to his "stock" than if beat up a woman or drove a car wasted is a sad sad statement on our country.
(cue some folks replying with the fact that during one practice Kapernik work socks that had pigs in cops uniforms on them, oh know the horror... But, the dozens of NFL of players who have documented histories of beating women, just guys being dudes getting sacks and touchdowns.)
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Nah man, ya got dis all wrong. I tink they're all trash, knot just Colin. Athletes, actors, etc. should just thank their lucky stars they can make da kinda bread they do in dis country for watt they do and its insignificance to mankind. Ta be totally disrepectful is unacceptible and its pleasin' dat no team needs his distraction so much as to give him a job, hey?
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Nah man, ya got dis all wrong. I tink they're all trash,
Yet this is the only one you have commented on if my recollection is correct.
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I'm not a fan of disrespect. There is a time and place for peaceful protest and in my opinion, this was neither. For the record, I have commented, on several occasions, that those who seemingly have the world by the tail, find it necessary to screw up prosperity.
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I'm not a fan of disrespect. There is a time and place for peaceful protest and in my opinion, this was neither. For the record, I have commented, on several occasions, that those who seemingly have the world by the tail, find it necessary to screw up prosperity.
(http://www.dallassouthnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/TommieSmithAP276.jpg)
Appropriate time and place?
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I just never found his actions during the anthem that disrespectful. I mean, we have had multiple people here on Scoop praising Gary Brell who did pretty much the same thing as Kap when he played for Marquette.
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I just never found his actions during the anthem that disrespectful. I mean, we have had multiple people here on Scoop praising Gary Brell who did pretty much the same thing as Kap when he played for Marquette.
no one picked up gary brell after his stint with MU either, ein'er?
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(http://www.dallassouthnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/TommieSmithAP276.jpg)
Appropriate time and place?
Perfect!
In the moment we shouldn't take the protest as offensive as some see it. With the benefit of time we can look back and see how poignant and relevant it was.
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no one picked up gary brell after his stint with MU either, ein'er?
OK. That was funny.
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My feeling about Kaepernick - and I've never been a fan - is that he took the exact same position that a lot of other athletes have taken, but had the balls to really put himself out there to make a point. And he's paying dearly for it. I don't necessarily agree with some of what he has done or said, but I have great respect for him. It's easy for these guys to spout some platitudes in a presser or interview. It's another thing entirely to put yourself out there like Kaepernick did. I respect his conviction and think it's unfortunate what's happening to him.
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Nah man, ya got dis all wrong. I tink they're all trash, knot just Colin. Athletes, actors, etc. should just thank their lucky stars they can make da kinda bread they do in dis country for watt they do and its insignificance to mankind. Ta be totally disrepectful is unacceptible and its pleasin' dat no team needs his distraction so much as to give him a job, hey?
(http://media.tumblr.com/01c3cfda3ba863e6449162c1b8162270/tumblr_inline_mu7nnhH6Pt1r84y6b.gif)
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I'm not a fan of disrespect. There is a time and place for peaceful protest and in my opinion, this was neither. For the record, I have commented, on several occasions, that those who seemingly have the world by the tail, find it necessary to screw up prosperity.
He didn't disrespect anything. Quite the opposite. By exercising the freedom that the flag symbolizes the person did far more for its importance than fake arbiters who allow the threads of the flag on their pole to remain torn and shredded for weeks on end seeing as they are too cheap to spend $49.99 on their unbridled patriotism.
Also, it's laughable you're smug about other people's prosperity. Not very Christian to covet your neighbor's lot (or lack thereof) in life.
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Couldn't happen ta a more deservin' ass hole. Karma's a bitch, ai na?
I agree with this analysis.
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Perfect!
In the moment we shouldn't take the protest as offensive as some see it. With the benefit of time we can look back and see how poignant and relevant it was.
You are spot on.
The owner of the NY Giants said he wouldn't sign Colin because of the stand that he took. Yet he had no issue whatsoever to handing out a 4 year contract to a serial abuser of women.
Somehow the NFL is on the wrong side again. Over and over and over again, they give contracts to violent criminals and wife beaters. Rapists like Big Ben and Jameis Winston get to make tens of millions of dollars for themselves and owners without consciences.
But take a peaceful stand and give more money to charity than the orange creep who runs the country? Tough luck, buddy..... but the rapists and creeps can still find employment.
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Personally, without ever having met the guy, it seems like there are several reasons to think that Kaepernick is not a good human being. He has been accused of sexual assault before (no idea what the circumstances were), he used a racial slur mid-game, the pig socks thing doesn't bother me that much but it is at very least a non-productive message. IMHO, the flag protest is not one of those reasons. Peaceful protest and the ability to abstain from a political action (like the national anthem) is what our country was founded on.
In conclusion, I'm glad the protest happened. I'm sad that Kaepernick was the face of it.
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Personally, without ever having met the guy, it seems like there are several reasons to think that Kaepernick is not a good human being. He has been accused of sexual assault before (no idea what the circumstances were), he used a racial slur mid-game, the pig socks thing doesn't bother me that much but it is at very least a non-productive message. IMHO, the flag protest is not one of those reasons. Peaceful protest and the ability to abstain from a political action (like the national anthem) is what our country was founded on.
In conclusion, I'm glad the protest happened. I'm sad that Kaepernick was the face of it.
-For some people, no matter who it was, the protest was going to be unacceptable (IMO those folks are wrong, but free country blah blah blah)
-For some people, the protest is offensive but within boundaries
-For some people, they don't want "politics" any where near their sports
-For some people, it was a rallying cry
-For some people, it didn't go far enough
All of the above was going to be true no matter who did it, it was going to be divisive no matter who delivered the message. However, the fact that it was Colin Kaepernick makes all of it that much harder because now there is so much ammunition for everyone to justify their cynical view.
Fair or unfair, these types of things almost always have to come near flawless characters for them to have any actual power to change.
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the price Kaepernick is paying for kneeling will make any others think twice about being that sort of lightning rod
could the NFL teams be colluding to make an example out of him?
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-For some people, no matter who it was, the protest was going to be unacceptable (IMO those folks are wrong, but free country blah blah blah)
-For some people, the protest is offensive but within boundaries
-For some people, they don't want "politics" any where near their sports
-For some people, it was a rallying cry
-For some people, it didn't go far enough
All of the above was going to be true no matter who did it, it was going to be divisive no matter who delivered the message. However, the fact that it was Colin Kaepernick makes all of it that much harder because now there is so much ammunition for everyone to justify their cynical view.
Fair or unfair, these types of things almost always have to come near flawless characters for them to have any actual power to change.
It was more than kneeling, it is also what he said. Attacking cops isn't a thing many people in this country support. Accusing them of murder, not going to win many hearts.
He was also voted most disliked NFL player in the league, so that ties the hands of NFL clubs. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17604958/san-francisco-49ers-qb-colin-kaepernick-most-disliked-player-nfl-according-poll-e-poll-marketing-research?ex_cid=espnfb&sf36614269=1
Who wants to bring that onto a team, especially for a marginal player. What would have been fascinating is if the guy was a stud and made those statements and committed those actions, then what would NFL teams have done?
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It was more than kneeling, it is also what he said. Attacking cops isn't a thing many people in this country support. Accusing them of murder, not going to win many hearts.
He was also voted most disliked NFL player in the league, so that ties the hands of NFL clubs. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17604958/san-francisco-49ers-qb-colin-kaepernick-most-disliked-player-nfl-according-poll-e-poll-marketing-research?ex_cid=espnfb&sf36614269=1
Who wants to bring that onto a team, especially for a marginal player. What would have been fascinating is if the guy was a stud and made those statements and committed those actions, then what would NFL teams have done?
My point was that the kneeling was only a part, and by the end a small one, of the overall Colin push back. Personally, he lost me with the pig socks and when he said he didn't vote in the presidential election.
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the price Kaepernick is paying for kneeling will make any others think twice about being that sort of lightning rod
could the NFL teams be colluding to make an example out of him?
He's not ultimately paying a price for kneeling (it started it), but he's paying a price for being a head case AND a bad quarterback.
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It was more than kneeling, it is also what he said. Attacking cops isn't a thing many people in this country support. Accusing them of murder, not going to win many hearts.
He accused some cops of murder. Which is actually a truthful statement.
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He's not ultimately paying a price for kneeling (it started it), but he's paying a price for being a head case AND a bad quarterback.
No, no and no.
He's not a bad quarterback, especially not relative to some of the actually bad quarterbacks getting contracts.
And he's not a head case, unless you believe that having unpopular political views makes one a head case. (True story, back in Soviet Russia, people with unpopular political views were often declared head cases and institutionalized ... which probably was a better outcome than the Gulag).
Please consider, from Pro Football Talk:
Kaepernick started 11 games for a horrible team in a new offensive system, generating numbers that were far from horrible.
As a passer, Kaepernick completed nearly 60 percent of his passes, averaging 6.8 yards per attempt and throwing 16 touchdown passes against four interceptions. His passer rating was 90.7 — his highest such number since signing his long-term deal after the 2013 season.
As a runner, Kaepernick averaged 42.5 yards per game and 6.8 yards per attempt. Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor, the leading rusher among quarterbacks in 2016, averaged 38.6 yards per game, in 15 starts.
Speaking of Taylor, his numbers for the year were comparable to Kaepernick’s. Completion percentage: 61.7. Average per attempt: 6.9 yards. Passer rating: 89.7. Touchdowns to interceptions: 17 to 6. Average per rush: 6.1 yards.
Taylor emerged from the season with a two-year, $30.5 million contract to remain with the Bills despite an overhaul to the coaching staff.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/25/joe-thomas-asks-the-key-question-on-kaepernick/
Now, do you really believe that a guy who put up those numbers with a horrid supporting cast (top receivers = Jeremy Kerley and Quinton Patton) isn't better than any of Case Keenum, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Blaine Gabbert, TJ Yates, EJ Manuel, Kellen Moore, David Fales, Aaron Murray and Austin Davis ... all of whom were awarded free-agent deals this spring?
"Kaepernik just isn't good enough" is a false narrative people tell themselves because they're uncomfortable admitting that he's being blackballed. The fact Kaepernick isn't with an NFL team right now has nothing to do with his ability to play football.
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He's not ultimately paying a price for kneeling (it started it), but he's paying a price for being a head case AND a bad quarterback.
The NFL is an incredibly pragmatic league. If you can help a team win, they may put up with off-field issues you might bring along. Of course, the better you are, the more off-field issues teams may tolerate. The opposite is also true.
If I'm a GM of a good team, hiring a talented backup QB who hopefully never plays a meaningful snap isn't worth the off-field headache.
If I'm a GM of a team that's terrible and has no QB, hiring a mediocre, replacement level, starting QB isn't worth the off-field headache because the end gain is maybe a win or two more and a worse draft slot + the ESPN sideshow.
It's a coldly calculating league, and if he were Tom Brady-good, then he could be Louis Farrakahn's right-hand-man (or Bill O'Reilly's) in the off season and still have a job. Too bad for Kap... he's not.
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The NFL is an incredibly pragmatic league. If you can help a team win, they may put up with off-field issues you might bring along. Of course, the better you are, the more off-field issues teams may tolerate. The opposite is also true.
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It's a coldly calculating league, and if he were Tom Brady-good, then he could be Louis Farrakahn's right-hand-man (or Bill O'Reilly's) in the off season and still have a job. Too bad for Kap... he's not.
For many years, I've believed this. The way Kaepernick is being treated makes me re-think that position. I don't like the guy and disagree strongly with a lot of what he did and said. But I think it's hard to make a case that he's not getting blackballed.
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No, no and no.
He's not a bad quarterback, especially not relative to some of the actually bad quarterbacks getting contracts.
And he's not a head case, unless you believe that having unpopular political views makes one a head case. (True story, back in Soviet Russia, people with unpopular political views were often declared head cases and institutionalized ... which probably was a better outcome than the Gulag).
Please consider, from Pro Football Talk:
Kaepernick started 11 games for a horrible team in a new offensive system, generating numbers that were far from horrible.
As a passer, Kaepernick completed nearly 60 percent of his passes, averaging 6.8 yards per attempt and throwing 16 touchdown passes against four interceptions. His passer rating was 90.7 — his highest such number since signing his long-term deal after the 2013 season.
As a runner, Kaepernick averaged 42.5 yards per game and 6.8 yards per attempt. Bills quarterback Tyrod Taylor, the leading rusher among quarterbacks in 2016, averaged 38.6 yards per game, in 15 starts.
Speaking of Taylor, his numbers for the year were comparable to Kaepernick’s. Completion percentage: 61.7. Average per attempt: 6.9 yards. Passer rating: 89.7. Touchdowns to interceptions: 17 to 6. Average per rush: 6.1 yards.
Taylor emerged from the season with a two-year, $30.5 million contract to remain with the Bills despite an overhaul to the coaching staff.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/25/joe-thomas-asks-the-key-question-on-kaepernick/
Now, do you really believe that a guy who put up those numbers with a horrid supporting cast (top receivers = Jeremy Kerley and Quinton Patton) isn't better than any of Case Keenum, Mark Sanchez, Geno Smith, Blaine Gabbert, TJ Yates, EJ Manuel, Kellen Moore, David Fales, Aaron Murray and Austin Davis ... all of whom were awarded free-agent deals this spring?
"Kaepernik just isn't good enough" is a false narrative people tell themselves because they're uncomfortable admitting that he's being blackballed. The fact Kaepernick isn't with an NFL team right now has nothing to do with his ability to play football.
This times 1,000.
It's an old fashioned blackballing.
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Amen.
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The NFL is an incredibly pragmatic league. If you can help a team win, they may put up with off-field issues you might bring along. Of course, the better you are, the more off-field issues teams may tolerate. The opposite is also true.
If I'm a GM of a good team, hiring a talented backup QB who hopefully never plays a meaningful snap isn't worth the off-field headache.
If I'm a GM of a team that's terrible and has no QB, hiring a mediocre, replacement level, starting QB isn't worth the off-field headache because the end gain is maybe a win or two more and a worse draft slot + the ESPN sideshow.
It's a coldly calculating league, and if he were Tom Brady-good, then he could be Louis Farrakahn's right-hand-man (or Bill O'Reilly's) in the off season and still have a job. Too bad for Kap... he's not.
Disagree, somewhat
Yes, if Kaepernik were a generational talent like Brady, he'd still have a job in the league. But that's kind of a bad example, since only about 1 percent of the players in the league are generational talents.
Let's deal with the other 99 percent.
NFL general managers and coaches are extreme control freaks for whom there is no worse sin than "being a distraction." We know this.
Case in point: Ray Rice.
Rice isn't out of the league because he punched his wife. Hell, he was a member of the Ravens for seven months after he punched his wife. The team only cut him after the video of him punching his wife went public, and he became a distraction.
Case in point II: Josh Brown.
Eleven months after Josh Brown was arrested for domestic abuse, the Giants signed him to a $4 million extension. Even when he was suspended on the sly for domestic violence, the Giants kept and defended Brown. Only when the extent of his abuse became public did the Giants cut him ... not because he's a bad guy who beats women - he was that when they gave him a $4 million deal - but because he became a distraction.
In both instances, Brown and Rice could have continued to help teams win games. But they're now kryptonite to NFL coaches because signing them would be a distraction.
That +1,000 for Kaepernik. Signing Kaepernik would be perhaps the ultimate distraction, and hence NFL teams won't touch him. And he's a distraction not because he's a criminal or a bad person. He's a distraction for taking a political stance that's unpopular with a large segment of the meathead NFL fan base, i.e. the people who don't understand PFTCommenter is satire.
Anyone who believes Kap couldn't help a team on the field more than Mark Sanchez or Austin Davis needs to leave this discussion and never discuss NFL here again.
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Disagree, somewhat
Yes, if Kaepernik were a generational talent like Brady, he'd still have a job in the league. But that's kind of a bad example, since only about 1 percent of the players in the league are generational talents.
Let's deal with the other 99 percent.
NFL general managers and coaches are extreme control freaks for whom there is no worse sin than "being a distraction." We know this.
Case in point: Ray Rice.
Rice isn't out of the league because he punched his wife. Hell, he was a member of the Ravens for seven months after he punched his wife. The team only cut him after the video of him punching his wife went public, and he became a distraction.
Case in point II: Josh Brown.
Eleven months after Josh Brown was arrested for domestic abuse, the Giants signed him to a $4 million extension. Even when he was suspended on the sly for domestic violence, the Giants kept and defended Brown. Only when the extent of his abuse became public did the Giants cut him ... not because he's a bad guy who beats women, but because he became a distraction.
In both instances, Brown and Rice could have continued to help teams win games. But they're now kryptonite to NFL coaches because signing them would be a distraction.
That +1,000 for Kaepernik. Signing Kaepernik would be perhaps the ultimate distraction, and hence NFL teams won't touch him. And he's a distraction not because he's a criminal or a bad person. He's a distraction for taking a political stance that's unpopular with a large segment of the meathead NFL fan base, i.e. the people who don't understand PFTCommenter is satire.
Anyone who believes Kap couldn't help a team on the field more than Mark Sanchez or Austin Davis needs to leave this discussion and never discuss NFL here again.
OK let me ask this. Heisey carried on about how the kneeling protests were dragging down ratings, and rightfully you and others argued those protests were having little to no impact on ratings. However, the argument is now that he is being blackballed because owners are concerned he'll impact ratings and/or perception of the team that signs him? Or that owners are more scared of a flaky dude who protested a patriotic song than they are players who are committing sexual assault and domestic violence crimes? I don't think these lines of thinking are compatible.
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However, the argument is now that he is being blackballed because owners are concerned he'll impact ratings and/or perception of the team that signs him? Or that owners are more scared of a flaky dude who protested a patriotic song than they are players who are committing sexual assault and domestic violence crimes? I don't think these lines of thinking are compatible.
1. I don't see anyone arguing that owners are concerned he'll impact ratings and/or perception the team (though they may be ... I don't know).
2. Yes, owners are more concerned with a guy who upsets fans because of his political stance than they are with thugs whose crimes aren't well publicized.
Did you read John Mara's comments on Kaepernik?
The same John Mara who gave Josh Brown a $4 million extension after he was arrested for beating his wife.
The same John Mara who kept Michael Boley on the team for two years after he was accused of child abuse (for which he later pleaded guilty).
Doesn't that tell you owners are more scared of a flaky dude who protested a patriotic song than they are players who are committing sexual assault and domestic violence crimes?
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1. I don't see anyone arguing that owners are concerned he'll impact ratings and/or perception the team (though they may be ... I don't know).
2. Yes, owners are more concerned with a guy who upsets fans because of his political stance than they are with thugs whose crimes aren't well publicized.
Did you read John Mara's comments on Kaepernik?
The same John Mara who gave Josh Brown a $4 million extension after he was arrested for beating his wife.
The same John Mara who kept Michael Boley on the team for two years after he was accused of child abuse (for which he later pleaded guilty).
Doesn't that tell you owners are more scared of a flaky dude who protested a patriotic song than they are players who are committing sexual assault and domestic violence crimes?
If the bolded is true, what are the owners concerned with, if not perception and/or ratings? I literally can't comprehend what concerns they would have that aren't ratings related that are significant enough to blackball a player that by your contention would bring more value to the team than players currently on the roster.
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Oh it's a blackballing alright, but it has as much to do with what Kap can do on the field as with what he does off it. Again, if Brady were doing what Kap is, he'd get signed.
I'd argue that to a team playing for a high draft pick/shot at their own Brady, it's not worth the marginal gain of adding a replacement level QB and getting the ESPN sideshow.
Likewise, for virtually every team that has a franchise QB, if that QB goes down, their Superbowl chance is blown regardless of whether the backup is Kap or Sanchez. I'd look at having the league's best back up kind of like having the world's best life insurance policy. If you have to use it, you're screwed anyway, so why bother with the sideshow.
At the end of the day he's being blackballed because of the sideshow, which wouldn't exist save for his political activism, but I'd argue that it's not the activism itself that is why he's not signed.
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If the bolded is true, what are the owners concerned with, if not perception and/or ratings? I literally can't comprehend what concerns they would have that aren't ratings related that are significant enough to blackball a player that by your contention would bring more value to the team than players currently on the roster.
I think you're a) confusing my point and b) conflating perception with ratings.
First, if you look at my post to which you responded, I said nothing about owners. I was talking about coaches and GMs, who are not concerned about ratings. They're concerned about so-called "distractions," of which I'm sure they believe Kaepernik would be one. that's why he's not getting signed. Control freak coaches have an all-abiding fear that factors outside their control might influence their fiefdom, and the additional attention Kaepernik would bring - at least in the short term - would bring factors outside their control.
Second, the perception of an individual team or owner - like, say, Giants fans writing mean letters to John Mara about Kaepernik - is not the same thing as national ratings (which was the topic of last year's debate).
John Mara isn't avoiding Kaepernik because he fears it will keep people from tuning into the Sunday night game between the Packers and Falcons. He fears it would piss off the paying customers at his gate and, perhaps, local sponsors. It's not about national ratings, it's about local revenues. These are not synonymous.
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He accused some cops of murder. Which is actually a truthful statement.
Here's the lesson that needs to be taught and understood. Do not run from the police.
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Here's the lesson that needs to be taught and understood. Do not run from the police.
Not exactly sure what this has to do with my statement...
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Likewise, for virtually every team that has a franchise QB, if that QB goes down, their Superbowl chance is blown regardless of whether the backup is Kap or Sanchez. I'd look at having the league's best back up kind of like having the world's best life insurance policy. If you have to use it, you're screwed anyway, so why bother with the sideshow.
Seven teams have won the Super Bowl with a quarterback who started the year as the backup.
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Exactly everything. When a person runs, he gives the police license and justification to subdue, by whatever means necessary which may include bodily harm or death.
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Exactly everything. When a person runs, he gives the police license and justification to subdue, by whatever means necessary which may include bodily harm or death.
Umm, yeah, that's nowhere close to true.
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Exactly everything. When a person runs, he gives the police license and justification to subdue, by whatever means necessary which may include bodily harm or death.
It is actually scary that you believe this to be true.
But again, cops have murdered people who they weren't chasing too.
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If the bolded is true, what are the owners concerned with, if not perception and/or ratings? I literally can't comprehend what concerns they would have that aren't ratings related that are significant enough to blackball a player that by your contention would bring more value to the team than players currently on the roster.
You've never done something that you knew was wrong when you thought no one would notice?
"Murder is easier for most people to do than perjury. Nobody's watching when you commit a murder"
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It is actually scary that you believe this to be true.
But again, cops have murdered people who they weren't chasing too.
Wow, this isn't that hard. I suppose you believe Fuhrman framed O.J. too, hey?
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Wow, this isn't that hard. I suppose you believe Fuhrman framed O.J. too, hey?
WTF are you talking about? If someone runs for the Police, they don't have the right to use "whatever means necessary," including deadly force, to get them to stop.
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Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.
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I think you're a) confusing my point and b) conflating perception with ratings.
First, if you look at my post to which you responded, I said nothing about owners. I was talking about coaches and GMs, who are not concerned about ratings. They're concerned about so-called "distractions," of which I'm sure they believe Kaepernik would be one. that's why he's not getting signed. Control freak coaches have an all-abiding fear that factors outside their control might influence their fiefdom, and the additional attention Kaepernik would bring - at least in the short term - would bring factors outside their control.
Second, the perception of an individual team or owner - like, say, Giants fans writing mean letters to John Mara about Kaepernik - is not the same thing as national ratings (which was the topic of last year's debate).
John Mara isn't avoiding Kaepernik because he fears it will keep people from tuning into the Sunday night game between the Packers and Falcons. He fears it would piss off the paying customers at his gate and, perhaps, local sponsors. It's not about national ratings, it's about local revenues. These are not synonymous.
I said perceptions and ratings, I'd lump the owners being concerned about local revenue as part of the perception lump but perhaps not, my fault.
The fact that Adam Jones has had a double digit career length is testimony to coaches and GMs putting up with a lot.
Additionally, there were other players that knelt during last season; I don't have a complete list but I'm not aware of any of them being out of a job. Is this perhaps because the protest by Kaepernik in of itself is not the problem but the general clown show he brings with it as compared to the value he brings to a team as a quarterback?
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Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.
Is the Supreme Court part of the liberal media?
Tennessee v. Garner
Court rules police cannot use deadly force against a fleeing suspect unless "the officer has probable cause to believe that the suspect poses a significant threat of death or serious physical injury to the officer or others."
(Emphasis mine).
http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-supreme-court/471/1.html
So, no, police cannot subdue by whatever means necessary a person who runs.
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Probable cause? Kinda a grey area, hey?
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Additionally, there were other players that knelt during last season; I don't have a complete list but I'm not aware of any of them being out of a job. Is this perhaps because the protest by Kaepernik in of itself is not the problem but the general clown show he brings with it as compared to the value he brings to a team as a quarterback?
This makes my point.
How many of those other players can you name (without looking it up)? Unlike Kaepernik, those other players were not front and center in the national debate. So their signings would be unlikely to create much of a stir.
Also, how many of those other players were free agents?
What beyond the protest do you consider the general Kaepernik clown show? His former coaches like Harbaugh and Chip Kelly have nothing but praise for him as a professional and teammate. Some quotes from a recent SI story:
“Every day his car would be the first one in the parking lot,” says Jim Harbaugh, who almost won Super Bowl 47 with Kaepernick in San Francisco before moving on to the University of Michigan. “He’d be studying film and he’d be working out in the morning. I mean, no later than 5:45. He was already in a full lather when I would see him.”
“There was zero distraction,” Kelly says. “He met with the team immediately after [his first protest]. He met with the other team leaders. He explained his position and where he was coming from. And literally, that was it. Colin was focused on football. He was all about the team and trying to help us win.”
Harbaugh says of his time coaching Kaepernick: “It got to the point where nobody could challenge him in a workout. Otherwise, he’d bring them to their knees. Like in running workouts—nobody could hang with him. Nobody was in the kind of shape he was.
“When Colin is with us, he is 100 percent football,” Kelly says. “There’s not, ‘Hey, Coach, I don’t have time for this.’ That was never him. [The protest] never affected how he worked or what our workplace was like. And that’s a credit to Colin.”
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Probable cause? Kinda a grey area, hey?
Not compared to the "when a person runs" justification you brought up earlier.
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Probable cause? Kinda a grey area, hey?
Yeah, as a legal concept it's only been around a few hundred years or so, and there are only about a half dozen Supreme Court decisions detailing its definition.
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He accused some cops of murder. Which is actually a truthful statement.
Yes, it is a truthful claim, but that isn't what he said. While also wearing Pig socks and making other such statements, he wasn't winning many hearts and minds with law enforcement backers in this country. Recall he also mentioned officers are on paid leave. This is normal course of business, same for a teacher or other employee accused of misconduct while they investigate. Showed a lack of misunderstanding on his part in my opinion. He has a right to his opinion, he can even play judge and jury, which he did with his comments. How many officers were declared guilty only to be found in an actual court of law, not guilty?
The NFL or future employers can also decide if he is worth the risk based on his actions on and off the field.
My sense is his heart is in the right place, but his execution was poor.
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My sense is his heart is in the right place, but his execution was poor.
I agree with you 100% on that statement.
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Probable cause? Kinda a grey area, hey?
Yes. But not nearly as grey as you seem to think
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Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.
Educated, intelligent people should not resort to this
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Educated, intelligent people should not resort to this
"Educated" and "intelligent" are the key word here.
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Here's the thing though, even if you don't run, cops can be very trigger/gun happy.
I had had exactly one run it with the cops and it wasn't pleasant. I was working at a summer camp in Wisconsin and during my night out I was walking into town. During the time I was walking, around camp someone who worked there put in a call saying that there was someone walking around the camp ground in the woods. (turns out it was just one of the full time directors walking their job)
Anyways, I'm walking down the road which is essentially a state highway and from behind me I hear "stop, turn around and turn your hands up".
Obviously there's a cop there and I do as I'm told, however at some point during the 15 foot walk between where I was and the cop car, apparently I did something that warranted him to pull out his gun, point it at me and then throw me against the hood of the car to get searched. I literally did nothing but comply with what he said.
He proceeded to take me back to camp and I'm sitting with the program director and this cop while the cop is yelling in my face saying he knows I was the one in the woods running around trying to get me to confess to something I didn't do, just because I "matched the description."
Point being, just because somebody is running that should not warrant "any force necessary" cops are effing scary, I am not an intimidating looking person in the slightest (ask glow or chick) and I had a gun pulled on me by a cop unprovoked. I can understand why some people run, because they fear for their lives.
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Here's the lesson that needs to be taught and understood. Do not run from the police.
Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.
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[...]
Point being, just because somebody is running that should not warrant "any force necessary" cops are effing scary, I am not an intimidating looking person in the slightest (ask glow or chick) and I had a gun pulled on me by a cop unprovoked. I can understand why some people run, because they fear for their lives.
This discussion is going way afield, and definitely skewing into lock-flirting-territory, but Chitown is right. I want nothing more than a lawful society, but I'm healthily skeptical of state powers. The state is cloaked with such an overwhelming power that there is no good interaction with the police as a citizen. Hands up, ask for lawyer, pray silently.
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Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.
Dude, you're the first to bring up race. My original premise is that he meshed up prosperity and I laid into him for doing so as I have done many times before with people such as Tiger, Manziel, Crosby, and Leaf, et al.
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Interesting that you moved off of the freedom of expression being disrespectful and on to some thin blue line omerta bullcrap to justify your benign racism of the football player in question.
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This discussion is going way afield, and definitely skewing into lock-flirting-territory, but Chitown is right. I want nothing more than a lawful society, but I'm healthily skeptical of state powers. The state is cloaked with such an overwhelming power that there is no good interaction with the police as a citizen. Hands up, ask for lawyer, pray silently.
Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.
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Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.
very well stated
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This makes my point.
How many of those other players can you name (without looking it up)? Unlike Kaepernik, those other players were not front and center in the national debate. So their signings would be unlikely to create much of a stir.
Also, how many of those other players were free agents?
What beyond the protest do you consider the general Kaepernik clown show? His former coaches like Harbaugh and Chip Kelly have nothing but praise for him as a professional and teammate. Some quotes from a recent SI story:
“Every day his car would be the first one in the parking lot,” says Jim Harbaugh, who almost won Super Bowl 47 with Kaepernick in San Francisco before moving on to the University of Michigan. “He’d be studying film and he’d be working out in the morning. I mean, no later than 5:45. He was already in a full lather when I would see him.”
“There was zero distraction,” Kelly says. “He met with the team immediately after [his first protest]. He met with the other team leaders. He explained his position and where he was coming from. And literally, that was it. Colin was focused on football. He was all about the team and trying to help us win.”
Harbaugh says of his time coaching Kaepernick: “It got to the point where nobody could challenge him in a workout. Otherwise, he’d bring them to their knees. Like in running workouts—nobody could hang with him. Nobody was in the kind of shape he was.
“When Colin is with us, he is 100 percent football,” Kelly says. “There’s not, ‘Hey, Coach, I don’t have time for this.’ That was never him. [The protest] never affected how he worked or what our workplace was like. And that’s a credit to Colin.”
Marcellus Bennett didn't kneel but raised his fist in protest. He signed with the Packers as a free agent.
As far as kneelers I think one was Marshall from the Broncos, either way it was a starting linebacker. There was a gentlemen from the Dolphins, several Eagles and someone from Kansas City. Not sure other than Marshall I knew who the players were before they knelt either.
Not NFL but Megan Rapinoe knelt as well.
The clown show is all the stuff that happened around the protest, that again I'm going off memory:
- Not voting in a national or local election after being vocal about the direction of the country
-saying Hitler and Trump were no different (after saying he didn't vote because there was no difference in the candidates)
-wearing a Fidel Castro tshirt
- the continuously mentioned pig socks
-i also thought I remembered mixed explanation of why he was kneeling, etc
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
If he's such a great teammate and is better than average why would coaches and GMs not want him? What possible motivation would there be for every team to collude and black ball him?
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Respectfully, there are literally tens of thousands - quite possibly hundreds of thousands - of good interactions with the police every single day. Your ridiculous hyperbole reveals your agenda. And I'm saying this as someone who's been supporting Kaepernick in this thread.
You did notice above that I'm not supporting Kapernick in the slightest? I'm the guy saying "yes he's been blackballed, and yes he ought to be; he's not worth it."
I'm confident you've misread my leanings in almost every way. Despite that, I stand by the fact that unless you absolutely have to, you should never interact with someone with license to deprive you of life and liberty. If you have to do so, you would be wise to so very carefully. The stakes cannot be higher.
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Any y'all out there in law enforcement? I think we need an authoritative voice opinin', rather than a rewind of whatever the liberal media is spittin' out as the gospel.
I am, you're wrong and probable cause would be an observed weapon in hand that is not dropped after commanded to.
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Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...
He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract. The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp. No one wants this headache.
So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down). Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.
This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon. That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.
This made sense to me. Thoughts?
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Yeah, as a legal concept it's only been around a few hundred years or so, and there are only about a half dozen Supreme Court decisions detailing its definition.
Half a dozen seems pretty indicative of a gray area... after all, if it was cut and dry, you'd think they could have stopped after one or two. Three tops. But six?
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Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...
He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract. The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp. No one wants this headache.
So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down). Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.
This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon. That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.
This made sense to me. Thoughts?
Makes perfect sense. As such, sticks out like a sore thumb in this thread.
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Marcellus Bennett didn't kneel but raised his fist in protest. He signed with the Packers as a free agent.
As far as kneelers I think one was Marshall from the Broncos, either way it was a starting linebacker. There was a gentlemen from the Dolphins, several Eagles and someone from Kansas City. Not sure other than Marshall I knew who the players were before they knelt either.
Not NFL but Megan Rapinoe knelt as well.
The clown show is all the stuff that happened around the protest, that again I'm going off memory:
- Not voting in a national or local election after being vocal about the direction of the country
-saying Hitler and Trump were no different (after saying he didn't vote because there was no difference in the candidates)
-wearing a Fidel Castro tshirt
- the continuously mentioned pig socks
-i also thought I remembered mixed explanation of why he was kneeling, etc
I'm sure I'm forgetting something.
If he's such a great teammate and is better than average why would coaches and GMs not want him? What possible motivation would there be for every team to collude and black ball him?
In the Superbar, Eng, you are one of the go-to guys for me (along with a couple of others). You have reasonable and thoughtful takes on most everything.
But here, I don't think you could be any more wrong. This is a classic case of blackballing, plain and simple. Pete Carroll said he wouldn't sign Colin because he was too good and deserved to start in the NFL.
If Pete believes that, and I think he does, then Colin would be exactly the guy that a coach would want to sign. Very few teams have the luxury of having a backup with starter talent. No, I am guessing that an old, white guy - the owner - laid down the law. Blackballed!!
There are approximately 75 QBs in the NFL. Colin is probably in the #20-#30 range among them all. Yet no one even wants to sign him. Blackballed!!
Owners gladly hand out million dollar contracts to rapists, serial abusers of women and plain old fashioned wife and child beaters, yet Colin doesn't even get any nibbles. Blackballed!!
About as classic of a case as you will ever see.
This is as much a societal problem as it is a sports issue. I never cease to be amazed how millions hired a creep who openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, but then use their distorted moral judgement to try to destroy a man who has committed no crime. A man who has given immense amounts of money to charity, a man who has done many good works in his life.
Cub fans had no issue with supporting a wife beater, Steeler fan have no issue supporting a rapist, Cowboy fans had no issue with supporting a violent abuser of women,yet we are so so so morally indignant over what Kaepernik did.
Shame on us.
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no one picked up gary brell after his stint with MU either, ein'er?
I know it was sarcasm but in fairness to Gary he was drafted by the Bucks.
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Talked to a friend involved with the Bears ...
He said that most agree that Kap is not a bad QB, better than many guys currently under contract. The problem is if you sign him now, you invite a media circus and a giant distraction for OTAs and training camp. No one wants this headache.
So Kap should stay ready and look for someone to sign him at the end of training camp or the first few weeks into a season (when QBs start to go down). Then the circus is muted with the actual performance of real games.
This guy also thinks Kap will be signed by a team after their starter goes down and might not be a pure emergency QB but see action relatively soon. That way the talk of Kap and his politics is replaced by his yards and QBR, as it should be.
This made sense to me. Thoughts?
Someone in this thread said several times that the reason teams aren't signing Kap isn't because he's good enough, but because they view his signing as a huge distraction.
Hmmm, I wonder who that exceptionally wise poster was .....
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Half a dozen seems pretty indicative of a gray area... after all, if it was cut and dry, you'd think they could have stopped after one or two. Three tops. But six?
Nope. It's actually quite the opposite. Each new ruling builds upon the prior to further establish clarity of the law.
To put it simply, federal legislation that the Supreme Court has never weighed in on is likely far more ambiguous than one they're ruled on repeatedly.
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Someone in this thread said several times that the reason teams aren't signing Kap isn't because he's good enough, but because they view his signing as a huge distraction.
Hmmm, I wonder who that exceptionally wise poster was .....
This is an admittedly catty response but it's good to see that Heisey's anecdotal "evidence" is relevant when it supports your theory of the crime.
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In the Superbar, Eng, you are one of the go-to guys for me (along with a couple of others). You have reasonable and thoughtful takes on most everything.
But here, I don't think you could be any more wrong. This is a classic case of blackballing, plain and simple. Pete Carroll said he wouldn't sign Colin because he was too good and deserved to start in the NFL.
If Pete believes that, and I think he does, then Colin would be exactly the guy that a coach would want to sign. Very few teams have the luxury of having a backup with starter talent. No, I am guessing that an old, white guy - the owner - laid down the law. Blackballed!!
There are approximately 75 QBs in the NFL. Colin is probably in the #20-#30 range among them all. Yet no one even wants to sign him. Blackballed!!
Owners gladly hand out million dollar contracts to rapists, serial abusers of women and plain old fashioned wife and child beaters, yet Colin doesn't even get any nibbles. Blackballed!!
About as classic of a case as you will ever see.
This is as much a societal problem as it is a sports issue. I never cease to be amazed how millions hired a creep who openly bragged about sexually assaulting women, but then use their distorted moral judgement to try to destroy a man who has committed no crime. A man who has given immense amounts of money to charity, a man who has done many good works in his life.
Cub fans had no issue with supporting a wife beater, Steeler fan have no issue supporting a rapist, Cowboy fans had no issue with supporting a violent abuser of women,yet we are so so so morally indignant over what Kaepernik did.
Shame on us.
Thank you for the compliment, and for the record I'm 100% ready to be wrong.....I'm usually wrong more than I'm not so it's something I've come to terms with ;D
Maybe I'm getting overly semantic, but when we throw around the term black ball, that evokes to me a conspiracy of all GMs and Coaches to keep Kaepernick from playing in the league and that is where I'm not ready to go. I have no doubt (rightly or wrongly) that some, if not all organizations within the NFL have chosen not to sign him to a contract because of the baggage that comes with him at this time. Where I think this talk of black balling goes to far is the idea that the NFL or the teams are collectively and intentionally keep him out of the league. Again, I'm prepared to be wrong but I just don't buy a conspiracy.
And as I've said before, there have been a number of "troublesome" or outspoken players that have remained in the league. Marcellus Bennett is a perfect example, he didn't show up at the White House because of Trump, he joined in the anthem protests and has some "controversial" opinions and yet he is welcomed with open arms into one of the more cautious or conservative organizations in the league.
Lastly, I have no doubt that Kaepernick's outspoken nature has impacted his standing in the league. Where I struggle how much of it is due to the flag protest itself and how much is "other stuff"
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This is an admittedly catty response but it's good to see that Heisey's anecdotal "evidence" is relevant when it supports your theory of the crime.
So if I disagree with Heisey on many things, I must therefore argue that every single thing he says is wrong?
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So if I disagree with Heisey on many things, I must therefore argue that every single thing he says is wrong?
No, you should just be consistent in your standards of what you accept to be true. Multiple times in other disagreements, especially around ratings, Heisey used discussions as evidence for his side of the argument. You rejected them as anecdotal or insufficient (show me polls not stories, etc). In this case however, you are willing to accept the story at face value because it confirms your side of the discussion.
I'm not calling you out for agreeing with Heisey on something, zero issue there. I'm calling you out for changing your "standard of evidence" in this case.
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(http://www.dallassouthnews.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/TommieSmithAP276.jpg)
Appropriate time and place?
Well it did ruin the career of the white guy who came in 2nd.
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No, you should just be consistent in your standards of what you accept to be true. Multiple times in other disagreements, especially around ratings, Heisey used discussions as evidence for his side of the argument. You rejected them as anecdotal or insufficient (show me polls not stories, etc). In this case however, you are willing to accept the story at face value because it confirms your side of the discussion.
I'm not calling you out for agreeing with Heisey on something, zero issue there. I'm calling you out for changing your "standard of evidence" in this case.
I hope you can understand the difference between an anecdote involving a handful of television viewers among millions of them, as opposed to an anecdote involving an NFL team among 32 of them.
That said, I wasn't citing Heisy's anecdote as "evidence," just pointing out that his source had the same outlook as I.
And yes, you are being catty.
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Pete Carrol says he won't sign him because he is too good and should start? And you believe this? The QB is one play away from going down for the season, you sign the best players you can and if he is available, you sign him. Carrol's comments do not pass the smell test at all.
I agree there is blackballing going on, and that happens when one is a marginal player, widely despised by fans for actions and comments. If he was a great player, he would be playing.
If Bill Maher wasn't as productive he would be fired this week. If Charlie Sheen were a more important star, he would be employed still. There have always alway always been different standards and leniency for certain athletes, actors, politicians, celebs in society.
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Pete Carrol says he won't sign him because he is too good and should start? And you believe this? The QB is one play away from going down for the season, you sign the best players you can and if he is available, you sign him. Carrol's comments do not pass the smell test at all.
Except other than the Bears, I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.
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Except I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.
Well, if Kap is indeed holding out for a starter's position and starter's $$$, one could make a solid argument that rather than being blackballed he's misreading his market.
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I know it was sarcasm but in fairness to Gary he was drafted by the Bucks.
3rd round pick #16...someone must have leaked his anti-american stuff and they cut him? or was it the mustard incident? ;D
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Thank you for the compliment, and for the record I'm 100% ready to be wrong.....I'm usually wrong more than I'm not so it's something I've come to terms with ;D
Maybe I'm getting overly semantic, but when we throw around the term black ball, that evokes to me a conspiracy of all GMs and Coaches to keep Kaepernick from playing in the league and that is where I'm not ready to go. I have no doubt (rightly or wrongly) that some, if not all organizations within the NFL have chosen not to sign him to a contract because of the baggage that comes with him at this time. Where I think this talk of black balling goes to far is the idea that the NFL or the teams are collectively and intentionally keep him out of the league. Again, I'm prepared to be wrong but I just don't buy a conspiracy.
And as I've said before, there have been a number of "troublesome" or outspoken players that have remained in the league. Marcellus Bennett is a perfect example, he didn't show up at the White House because of Trump, he joined in the anthem protests and has some "controversial" opinions and yet he is welcomed with open arms into one of the more cautious or conservative organizations in the league.
Lastly, I have no doubt that Kaepernick's outspoken nature has impacted his standing in the league. Where I struggle how much of it is due to the flag protest itself and how much is "other stuff"
I guess maybe we don't disagree all that much and it is more of a matter of semantics. I don't see the blackballing in a "legal" sense or as some type of collusion, but rather just an accepted thing that all are going along with. My rant may have made it seem otherwise.
It's actually more like the Bill Maher bit "I don't know it for a fact.... I just know its true".
http://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/index/2015/10/10/i-just-know-its-true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMu29W4uIxo
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Drew Magary must read scoop - http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410 (http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410)
Here's the bitch about activism - it seeking to normalize a message in the exact community that has already explicitly or implicitly rejected that message. The target of the message is also its opponent. Whether its race-based, anti-war, or any other message, the goal is to normalize and cause gradual acceptance in the face of the knowledge that the target audience will reject it at first blush, often dramatically.
The NFL dynamic is just a smaller sample size of that environment. I don't for a second doubt Mara's claim in that article is true - he probably did get dramatically more pissed off fan mail warning him not to sign Kap than he did about Josh Brown. But that's the damn problem, its not a legitimate reason to not sign Kap. The self-reinforcing feedback loop that's willing to use meaningless words like "distraction" to obfuscate the insanity of viewing Kap's crimes (whatever you determine those to actually be) as somehow worse than Josh Brown's, because - why exactly? Because Johnny in Queens called about it? Because Francesa ran his mouth about it?
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Drew Magary must read scoop - http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410 (http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410)
Here's the bitch about activism - it seeking to normalize a message in the exact community that has already explicitly or implicitly rejected that message. The target of the message is also its opponent. Whether its race-based, anti-war, or any other message, the goal is to normalize and cause gradual acceptance in the face of the knowledge that the target audience will reject it at first blush, often dramatically.
The NFL dynamic is just a smaller sample size of that environment. I don't for a second doubt Mara's claim in that article is true - he probably did get dramatically more pissed off fan mail warning him not to sign Kap than he did about Josh Brown. But that's the damn problem, its not a legitimate reason to not sign Kap. The self-reinforcing feedback loop that's willing to use meaningless words like "distraction" to obfuscate the insanity of viewing Kap's crimes (whatever you determine those to actually be) as somehow worse than Josh Brown's, because - why exactly? Because Johnny in Queens called about it? Because Francesa ran his mouth about it?
Your first paragraph is particularly true, because, after all, the point is to change the minds of those who think differently. If the message is right, enough people will come around. Smoking, civil rights, and gay rights come immediately to mind.
I agree with the second paragraph as well. Fans (except for some of us and we know who we are 8-)) are idiots. They spout off just for the sake of it. Look at every poll when any pro league has been on strike. People are disgusted and say they will no longer support the sport. Then a year or two later, new attendance records are set.
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I don't know if "blackball" is the right term or not.
How I view it is that teams looking for QBs were afraid to sign a guy who would be a lightning rod for criticism. If he were good enough to be a star, a team or two might be willing to endure the backlash, but why endure it for a guy on the bench?
Even though the circumstances are different, there is some commonality with the Tebow situation in that teams didn't want to sign a guy who would always be at the center of media attention and fans demanding, "We want Tebow." If Tebow were good enough to actually play, you take him on; but to have a guy like that on your bench and face the public and/or media pressure to play him, who needed that?
CK is damaged goods because he's deemed too unpatriotic and not quite good enough to make a difference on the field; TT is damaged goods because he's a lethal combination of being a fan favorite but a really bad QB.
On a semi-related note ...
Pete Carroll, who had a reputation of being a straight-shooter once upon a time, has been telling quite a few fibs the last year or two, and this one about CK is a whopper.
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"I don't know if "blackball" is the right term or not."
not sure if "blueballed" is any better though, hey-ouchie-heyn'a?
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Except other than the Bears, I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/05/seahawks-kaepernick-arent-apart-on-money/
According to this, which Kap retweeted, they were in agreement on money. Can't remember who it was but on Lebatard's radio show yesterday they said he's looking for around $3 million.
Something they did bring up though is that Kap could divide the locker room but not in the way you think. With the issues some players (Sherman & Bennett mostly) have with Russell Wilson they may start clamoring for Kap to be starting and cause even more drama.