I have been watching Marquette Basketball for decades and defense was always a key component of their best moments. This year however, we have an extraordinary group of marksmen. With at least 4 shooters pumping up high percentage 3's, our odds of nailing a 3 every time down the court is nearly as high most team's odds of hitting a 2. That is a game changer. Add to that, that last night marked the first time I saw this team move to the next level and effectively drive the basket and finish when challenged behind the 3 point line. That means we now might be multidimensional in our offense making us extremely difficult to defend and could further enhance our scoring efficiency. This is really fun to watch and I think WOJO is just now really figuring out what he has. A cold shooting night could ruin this fun at any point but when we are on, we can be nearly unstoppable. Play adequate defense, minimize turnovers and make sure we always get a good look at the basket seems to be a winning formula. It is great watching these Eagles Fly.
I wouldn't say it's wojo just now figuring it out - its that rather than go with lineups he thinks may be more effective defensively he scrapped that and said I'm putting the fighters out there and maximizing my offense - they're gonna go only as far as the offense but it's our only chance - no point hamstringing it with what cleary will not be great defense
Quote from: CAGASS24 on March 02, 2017, 10:03:44 AM
I wouldn't say it's wojo just now figuring it out - its that rather than go with lineups he thinks may be more effective defensively he scrapped that and said I'm putting the fighters out there and maximizing my offense - they're gonna go only as far as the offense but it's our only chance - no point hamstringing it with what cleary will not be great defense
Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether. Maybe certain positions. Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke. He is in there for his defense.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 02, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether. Maybe certain positions. Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke. He is in there for his defense.
Defense sure, but he is also not a priority taking possessions on offense like having Fisher in would, so more shots for the other guys when Heldt is in which helps.
Quote from: LAMUfan on March 02, 2017, 10:15:00 AM
Defense sure, but he is also not a priority taking possessions on offense like having Fisher in would, so more shots for the other guys when Heldt is in which helps.
Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 02, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether. Maybe certain positions. Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke. He is in there for his defense.
Not completely sure about heldt being less talented. Mu goes to him more often yes. Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold. Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish. Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks. Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
Not completely sure about heldt being less talented. Mu goes to him more often yes. Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold. Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish. Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks. Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead
You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?" Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage. Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago. It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot. You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 02, 2017, 10:17:29 AM
Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer
Defensive rebounder. Luke is a better offensive rebounder.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 02, 2017, 10:17:29 AM
Also a better screener and rebounder than Fischer
Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 10:19:54 AM
Not completely sure about heldt being less talented. Mu goes to him more often yes. Yet he misses a ton of bunnies and cannot catch. Add in the misses and the fumbles and the fact that it stops our perimeter game n i think Wojo has realized, what i have been saying, is that fisher is fools gold. Shoot threes n drive n play heldt if its there dish to heldt he can catch and finish. Dont stop ur ball movement to feed fisher who will, post 15 feet from basket and drop the ball, travel or use his one move hes developed in 4 years n shoot a line drive hook shot short, or if he gets fouled shoot two bricks. Poor return. Luke hesitates n then travels on the reverse Heldt had last night Chuck a three in stead
#alternativefacts
Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2017, 10:35:04 AM
You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?" Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage. Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago. It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot. You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.
Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time. And we are looking at far less that 65%. Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best.
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt. Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng. Heldt scores within the offense. The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular.
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets? Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+. This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%. Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that. A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better. Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part. He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 10:58:21 AM
Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.
Screener no
Rebounder yes
Quote from: DarkWarrior on March 02, 2017, 09:41:07 AM
I have been watching Marquette Basketball for decades and defense was always a key component of their best moments. This year however, we have an extraordinary group of marksmen. With at least 4 shooters pumping up high percentage 3's, our odds of nailing a 3 every time down the court is nearly as high most team's odds of hitting a 2. That is a game changer. Add to that, that last night marked the first time I saw this team move to the next level and effectively drive the basket and finish when challenged behind the 3 point line. That means we now might be multidimensional in our offense making us extremely difficult to defend and could further enhance our scoring efficiency. This is really fun to watch and I think WOJO is just now really figuring out what he has. A cold shooting night could ruin this fun at any point but when we are on, we can be nearly unstoppable. Play adequate defense, minimize turnovers and make sure we always get a good look at the basket seems to be a winning formula. It is great watching these Eagles Fly.
A tall order for this team. We still gave up 84 points our last game.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 11:28:00 AM
Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time. And we are looking at far less that 65%. Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best.
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt. Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng. Heldt scores within the offense. The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular.
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets? Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+. This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%. Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that. A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better. Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part. He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game
How many times can you say add in the fumbles and travels in one post?
Quote from: MarquetteDano on March 02, 2017, 10:12:17 AM
Not sure I agree that Wojo is playing more to offense altogether. Maybe certain positions. Heldt is getting more run and he is clearly less talented offensively than Luke. He is in there for his defense.
Heldt is playing because he understands basketball is a contact sport.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 10:58:21 AM
Neither of these things are true. But I'm starting to buy that he is the better defender.
In screening, I include the "box outs" Heldt provides on drives before the shot goes up...highly underrated.
And Heldt gets his hands on the ball, he gets it....not to sound like Sand-knit but how many rebounds does Luke fumble away?
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 11:28:00 AM
Add in the fumbled passes, he had two last night that were layups if he can catch, the travels, and the fouls where he bricks free throws, n even worse in crunch time. And we are looking at far less that 65%. Not to mention the ball movement stops n we go away from what we do best.
Secondly, id like a stats guy to see what luke is shooting the last 10 games versus Heldt. Add in the horrible rebounding by Luke, the worst ball screen defense in D1, the fumbles ( he dropped two rebounds yesterday that hit him flat in the hands), the travels and the ft shootng. Heldt scores within the offense. The offense stops for us to feed luke, who is sooo soft he has to post up 15 feet away then we watch the train wreck that is his post move, i stress the singular.
Finally he may be 65%, however what percent of those are put backs and dumpoffs which is all heldt gets? Take away the put backs n dumpoffs which he is prolly converting at 80+. This prolly takes his clear out post ups with the drag driible n jump hook brlow 50%. Add in the travels, fouls n fumbles n brick fts n it is far below that. A hero ball no pass 3 with our ither players is, while not a good option, still better. Might be hard to hear n u may feel i have a grudge but its purely objective on my part. He is a bad option n if it were not for fouls i would play heldt 40 a game
What is objective is that Luke has the second highest eFG% in the Big East conference in the past 10 years. And with the insane amount of travels n fumbled passes n such, Luke somehow, miraculously, still averages the 3rd fewest turnovers per game compared to the other starting BE centers, all of 0.1 turnovers per game more than the guy with 2nd fewest turnovers per game.
"If you take away this n that n this then his shooting % isn't this n is this!" Hey, thanks! Guess what, he does get "this n that n this" and his shooting percentage is 65%. That is unthinkably good. "Hey guys, did you know that if you take away Howard's made FTs n his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers, he'd be averaging 0 ppg! God, I wish Wojo could just recruit some better kids so we don't have to play terrible players like Howard who would be scoring 0 ppg if you took away his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers n his made free throws!"
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 11:28:55 AM
Screener no
Rebounder yes
His TR% is significantly better than Heldts and last I checked was top 10 in the Big East.
You are seeing wrong
Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney! I can't wait.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on March 02, 2017, 03:21:06 PM
Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney! I can't wait.
Dangerous to my heart health!
They are so up and down. We're either going to have a weekend to be remembered or we'll get pasted and deflated....that's just MU this year. I'll live wither way and look forward to next year after its all done.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2017, 10:35:04 AM
You're complaining about the guy who shoots 65% from the field "miss[ing] a ton of bunnies?" Second in the entire conference in shooting percentage. Second highest eFG% in the Big East since Roy Hibbert 10 years ago. It'd be like complaining that Markus Howard can't shoot. You must be better at math than me or something, because that just doesn't add up.
It's odd to see Fischer miss so many two footers and yet the statistics say he is a good shooter. It just seems that we are a better team with Heldt on the court.
Quote from: wadesworld on March 02, 2017, 12:58:01 PM
What is objective is that Luke has the second highest eFG% in the Big East conference in the past 10 years. And with the insane amount of travels n fumbled passes n such, Luke somehow, miraculously, still averages the 3rd fewest turnovers per game compared to the other starting BE centers, all of 0.1 turnovers per game more than the guy with 2nd fewest turnovers per game.
"If you take away this n that n this then his shooting % isn't this n is this!" Hey, thanks! Guess what, he does get "this n that n this" and his shooting percentage is 65%. That is unthinkably good. "Hey guys, did you know that if you take away Howard's made FTs n his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers, he'd be averaging 0 ppg! God, I wish Wojo could just recruit some better kids so we don't have to play terrible players like Howard who would be scoring 0 ppg if you took away his made 3 pointers n his made 2 pointers n his made free throws!"
Wades u can twist it how ever u want but ur not being rational if u do.
To say we should stop our ball movement n clear out a side for luke to post n then feed him the ball from the wing because his fg is 65% is a total fallacy.
This is guessing but i bet im pretty close to being right.... So if half of his shots are putbacks or dribble drive dishes and hes lets say shooting 80% on those. And those are half his fgs attempts, then by math at 65% total fg he is shooting 50 %on post ups. That is of shots he takes. As we know he fumbles passes, charges, travels or gets fouled many times which dont get included as shots taken. The gets fouled is akin to a turnover. Therefore the teams effectivity of calling his number on a post up is quite a bit below 50%, and given the ither options , ie a 3 from our big 4 or a drive from others i personally feel we should rarely call the clear out wing post feed play. It is bad percentage for us. You can spout 65% all u want its apples to oranges
Whats heldts efg over the last 10 games, i gurantee its higher than lukes, and i would be saying the same thing if we were runiing clear out post ups for heldt. Neither one are very good at it. Fisher should be a garbage man, dumps n putbacks.
Quote from: jutaw22mu on March 02, 2017, 03:21:06 PM
Not only are we dancing, but we are going to be dangerous in the tourney! I can't wait.
I hope you are right, but since we lack the athleticism to play good defense we will be lucky to win one game.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 04:12:09 PM
Wades u can twist it how ever u want but ur not being rational if u do.
To say we should stop our ball movement n clear out a side for luke to post n then feed him the ball from the wing because his fg is 65% is a total fallacy.
This is guessing but i bet im pretty close to being right.... So if half of his shots are putbacks or dribble drive dishes and hes lets say shooting 80% on those. And those are half his fgs attempts, then by math at 65% total fg he is shooting 50 %on post ups. That is of shots he takes. As we know he fumbles passes, charges, travels or gets fouled many times which dont get included as shots taken. The gets fouled is akin to a turnover. Therefore the teams effectivity of calling his number on a post up is quite a bit below 50%, and given the ither options , ie a 3 from our big 4 or a drive from others i personally feel we should rarely call the clear out wing post feed play. It is bad percentage for us. You can spout 65% all u want its apples to oranges
Whats heldts efg over the last 10 games, i gurantee its higher than lukes, and i would be saying the same thing if we were runiing clear out post ups for heldt. Neither one are very good at it. Fisher should be a garbage man, dumps n putbacks.
.
You are the one doing the twisting, dude. The good thing about math is that it's a consistent truth. 65℅ FG percentage is just that. Most centers, including Heldt get most of their scoring on close range shots of whatever nature, especially the ones of some degree of limited ability (both our 5's). No one said we should "stop our ball movement" just to get the ball to Fischer.
BTW, why don't you just change your screen name to "The Agenda"? It fits your narrative perfectly.
I'm going to defend Sand-Knit here. I think he is 100% right. I think Heldt is better option right now for what this team wants to do on offense. The ball moves better, he is a better defender, and his rebounding isn't really that far off. And yes, we do get into situations where the offense bogs down to feed Fischer the ball. And that is OK if he has a mis-match and/or is hitting his shots. But only as a change up. That should no longer be the focal point of the offense.
And you think Fischer's 65% is good? Heldt is 73% this year including 12/14 since he began starting. My guess is that he isn't qualifying for the BE leaderboard due to only having 37 attempts on the year.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on March 02, 2017, 05:50:02 PM
I'm going to defend Sand-Knit here. I think he is 100% right. I think Heldt is better option right now for what this team wants to do on offense. The ball moves better, he is a better defender, and his rebounding isn't really that far off. And yes, we do get into situations where the offense bogs down to feed Fischer the ball. And that is OK if he has a mis-match and/or is hitting his shots. But only as a change up. That should no longer be the focal point of the offense.
And you think Fischer's 65% is good? Heldt is 73% this year including 12/14 since he began starting. My guess is that he isn't qualifying for the BE leaderboard due to only having 37 attempts on the year.
Looks like im not the only genius on the board, welcome!
Bottom line is alot of people think feeding luke in the post is a good idea because he shoots 65% , relative to our other options its near or at the bottom. Only time im ok with it is in a switch situation with a guard on him
I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 08:06:43 PM
I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.
And that is true, but I am not sure why it matters.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on March 02, 2017, 08:13:43 PM
And that is true, but I am not sure why it matters.
Because there is a difference between advocating for one player for sake of the team and tearing down another player when its not justified
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 08:06:43 PM
I could hear an argument about how Heldt works better for this team. There could be something there. But in terms of actual talent of the two at this moment, Luke eats Heldt's lunch.
Offensive skill i would agree. Defensively completely disagree. Toughness completely disagree.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 08:37:39 PM
Offensive skill i would agree. Defensively completely disagree. Toughness completely disagree.
Well some how despite his lack of toughness and defense, he still puts up significantly better numbers in every major category!
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 09:46:06 PM
Well some how despite his lack of toughness and defense, he still puts up significantly better numbers in every major category!
Would you agree with Wojo Starting Heldt in these last games?
Quote from: Loose Cannon on March 02, 2017, 10:24:33 PM
Would you agree with Wojo Starting Heldt in these last games?
Like I said earlier, I could buy an argument that Heldt's skill set is better for this team than Luke's. That doesn't make Heldt better or Luke worse. I also think Luke has been victimized by the refs the last few games. Guy sneezes and they call a foul
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 02, 2017, 07:25:39 PM
Looks like im not the only genius on the board, welcome!
Bottom line is alot of people think feeding luke in the post is a good idea because he shoots 65% , relative to our other options its near or at the bottom. Only time im ok with it is in a switch situation with a guard on him
Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!
Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.
Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?
Quote from: RJax55 on March 02, 2017, 11:20:17 PM
Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!
Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.
Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?
Luke is the past, Matt is the future. Looking for long term success; not just winning for the short term. Let's face it. Even if we get into the tournament this team is not built to make a deep run. Perhaps in a year or two. Having said that nothing would please me more if I had to eat my words.
Quote from: RJax55 on March 02, 2017, 11:20:17 PM
Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!
Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.
Right. Because feeding the post is crappy basketball offense. I posted this when he said it in December....
http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12
Quote from: RJax55 on March 02, 2017, 11:20:17 PM
Bingo. You know who else agrees with this, the one guy who's opinion matters. Wojo!
Just compare our offense to the start of the season. The force-feeding the post is completely gone. And, it is hardly a coincidence that the less we feature the post, the better our offense performs.
Look, Luke brings effort and seems like a solid guy. I appreciate his contributions he has made during his career. But a number of posters seem hell-bent on defending him, no matter what. The truth is that Wojo has benched him and elevated Heldt into a feature role. If Luke is so much better than Heldt, why did he do this?
Ur right , what funny is the stats guys that continue to defend him still start thrreads of should luke still start. I like the fact that luke rarely plays anymore, it has turned our season around. What i dont like is we still go to him. Yes the coaches have realized its fools gold. However even in the Xavier game we for ce fed him a couple times. Once the pass hit him sqaure in the hands n he dropped it the other he shot a line drive brick at rim. Dont feed the post.
There is a lot of stat picking in this thread. If Heldt was using the same % of possessions at Luke, I don't think he would be nearly as "efficient" as he is now. Luke is a better offensive player, using way more possessions.
The only argument that could be made is that the team should be using Luke less as other guys are more efficient. Still defensively, Luke has better block %, steal %, defensive rebounding % and fouls less per 40 minutes.
The people that cling to stats are blunded by the real game. Plz post the fumbled rebound n pass stats. Plz post the dunks given up off of ball screen defense stat. Stats have their place but unfortunately they are blinding some of what is starkly obvious. As another poster has said , the coaches have figured it out, and as i stated after the first Xavier game, thank goodness!! I just wish they had done it sooner. Nice kid, free schooling, get a degree n recruit someone who is good at basketball.
Being one of the best 3 point shooting teams in the country, and being one of the best free throw shooting teams in the country is a nice treat for Marquette fans.
What Marquette needs more moving forward with recruiting, is lateral quickness. They need more players with not only more athleticism, but more lateral quickness to defend better and stay in front of their man. This will also help with rebounding in and out of area.
Until then, take advantage of the 3 point shooting, make the extra passes, and get more easy baskets when teams overplay outside. Defend and rebound as a group.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 03, 2017, 07:09:29 AM
The people that cling to stats are blunded by the real game. Plz post the fumbled rebound n pass stats. Plz post the dunks given up off of ball screen defense stat. Stats have their place but unfortunately they are blinding some of what is starkly obvious. As another poster has said , the coaches have figured it out, and as i stated after the first Xavier game, thank goodness!! I just wish they had done it sooner. Nice kid, free schooling, get a degree n recruit someone who is good at basketball.
You are the only one who is blind. Luke fumbles one rebound and that turns into 4 of them. Luke gives up zero dunks off ball screen defense but because you think it's bad defense anytime Luke leaves the post it turns into dozens of dunks. Meanwhile, you ignore any mistake Matt makes.
After the first X game you told everyone that Heldt was a lockdown defender and Luke was a sieve. I showed you that Heldt allowed 67% fg shooting in the post while Luke gave up less then 50%.
What you fail to grasp with the stats that if Luke is truly fumbling so many rebounds and dropping passes in the post, that would show up in the stats. You just focus so much on individual mistakes these you don't see everything else going on.
All that being said, I think you are onto something with the style. Our offense does seem to flow better when we don't feed the post as often. I didn't think so at first but I think you are right on that one. Saying we should feature Luke less is one thing but don't tear down a kid and say he's garbage. Especially when it's not justified.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2017, 08:00:29 AM
You are the only one who is blind. Luke fumbles one rebound and that turns into 4 of them. Luke gives up zero dunks off ball screen defense but because you think it's bad defense anytime Luke leaves the post it turns into dozens of dunks. Meanwhile, you ignore any mistake Matt makes.
After the first X game you told everyone that Heldt was a lockdown defender and Luke was a sieve. I showed you that Heldt allowed 67% fg shooting in the post while Luke gave up less then 50%.
What you fail to grasp with the stats that if Luke is truly fumbling so many rebounds and dropping passes in the post, that would show up in the stats. You just focus so much on individual mistakes these you don't see everything else going on.
All that being said, I think you are onto something with the style. Our offense does seem to flow better when we don't feed the post as often. I didn't think so at first but I think you are right on that one. Saying we should feature Luke less is one thing but don't tear down a kid and say he's garbage. Especially when it's not justified.
Garbage has never been used. Three times in second half wednesday rebounds came off the rim hit luke squearely in both hands and he dropped them. What stat would that show up in?
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on March 03, 2017, 08:20:43 AM
Garbage has never been used. Three times in second half wednesday rebounds came off the rim hit luke squearely in both hands and he dropped them. What stat would that show up in?
TR%. Please tell me when these occured. I have watched the Xavier game twice now and don't remember three rebounds hitting Luke squarely in both hands and him dropping them.
And while I don't feel like going back through your posts, garbage and worse than garbage has been used in your three month campaign against Luke.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on March 03, 2017, 06:55:03 AM
Right. Because feeding the post is crappy basketball offense. I posted this when he said it in December....
http://www.businessinsider.com/dan-dantoni-why-3-pointers-are-best-shots-in-basketball-2016-12
Almost every game the color analysis (doesn't really matter who) will state that MU really needs to establish Luke in the post. Never fails.
During conference play, we are finally running our offense similar to the way Duke was doing it at the end of Wojo's tenure. Coach K changed his offense after his Olympic experience, emphasizing shooting and floor spacing.
The way Duke used the Plumlee brothers is how I foresee our 5 position in the future. Screeners, offensive rebounders, guy who work the alley waiting for drop-offs. Either that or a 5 that is a shooter with range. Perhaps a guy like Harry Froling.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 02, 2017, 11:03:30 PM
Like I said earlier, I could buy an argument that Heldt's skill set is better for this team than Luke's. That doesn't make Heldt better or Luke worse. I also think Luke has been victimized by the refs the last few games. Guy sneezes and they call a foul
Would that be a YES? After the argument is completed.
This team is where basketball is headed in the next few years - heavy emphasis on the 3 pointer with big men who can rebound, defend the paint and set screens. Luke and Matt both play that role pretty well, although they need to do a better job of staying out of foul trouble. Unfortunately in today's game that often means just not contesting once a guy has position.
Quote from: Loose Cannon on March 03, 2017, 09:26:31 AM
Would that be a YES? After the argument is completed.
Yes, it is a yes. Wojo has clearly pushed a button and it is working. I wouldn't mess with it at this point. Though he might start the seniors on senior day.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 03, 2017, 10:16:44 AM
Yes, it is a yes. Wojo has clearly pushed a button and it is working. I wouldn't mess with it at this point. Though he might start the seniors on senior day.
I would agree. Thanks