Will the NCAA games at the BC preclude MU from hosting a NIT game? We should get a decent seed, so it would be unfortunate to not host.
Al McGuire Center
Any nit game will be at the AL. We couldn't get enough attendance to justify the bc.
Who gives a sh*t about the NIT?? I suppose those Wojo "slurpers" would point to it as progress..."see, this team made it to the postseason". Please. It's Mike Deane all over again "Marquette should be happy going to the NIT".
You sure we're going to the NIT? 1 - 4 since the Nova win. If this continues we done after the BET
If they do receive an NIT bid, they should reject it. No one wants to see this team play any longer than it absolutely has to.
Quote from: ecompt on February 11, 2017, 12:47:50 PM
If they do receive an NIT bid, they should reject it. No one wants to see this team play any longer than it absolutely has to.
That's crap. You guys are acting like worse losers than the team.
Quote from: ecompt on February 11, 2017, 12:47:50 PM
If they do receive an NIT bid, they should reject it. No one wants to see this team play any longer than it absolutely has to.
I would go. And I know you would watch it.
No way in hell would I watch it.
The NIT would be progress. I said as much before the season and stand by it.
That said, it would also be incredibly disappointing given where we were on January 24.
It's possible to be both progress and disappointing at the same time.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:14:35 PM
The NIT would be progress. I said as much before the season and stand by it.
That said, it would also be incredibly disappointing given where we were on January 24.
It's possible to be both progress and disappointing at the same time.
This is where I'm at
This program is one big shart right now.
I remember the genius posters who thought it was mu and not the coach (buzz) that was causing our success. U have to be really special to come to that conclusion.
Also the arrogant sarcasistic posters about slu. Guess who we have been for the past half decade?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:14:35 PM
The NIT would be progress. I said as much before the season and stand by it.
That said, it would also be incredibly disappointing given where we were on January 24.
It's possible to be both progress and disappointing at the same time.
It's a joke that 4 years ago we were in the elite 8, coming off our third straight sweet 16, and 8th straight NCAA appearance now the NIT is Progress. Sad. Time for a change.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 11, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
That's crap. You guys are acting like worse losers than the team.
You're right. "Be patient, Wojo will get it done." OK, then.
Quote from: marquette09 on February 11, 2017, 01:23:49 PM
It's a joke that 4 years ago we were in the elite 8, coming off our third straight sweet 16, and 8th straight NCAA appearance now the NIT is Progress. Sad. Time for a change.
You think a change would make this better? That's funny. Make a change and it will get a LOT worse before it gets an iota better.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
You think a change would make this better? That's funny. Make a change and it will get a LOT worse before it gets an iota better.
Do you think this team will be any better next year with this staff? I don't think so. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any improvement coming.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:32:29 PM
You think a change would make this better? That's funny. Make a change and it will get a LOT worse before it gets an iota better.
I'm willing to bite that bullet to correct the mistake made in hiring Wojo.
Quote from: marquette09 on February 11, 2017, 01:38:39 PM
Do you think this team will be any better next year with this staff? I don't think so. I honestly hope I'm wrong, but I don't see any improvement coming.
If you change the staff, Howard and the entire recruiting class is gone. So too is any hope at Joey Hauser. Can't see Rowsey or Duane, both grad transfer eligible, sticking. Maybe one, not both. Three seniors leave.
If we cut ties with Wojo now, next year's roster would make 2015 look like the 1992 Dream Team.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:41:57 PM
If you change the staff, Howard and the entire recruiting class is gone. So too is any hope at Joey Hauser. Can't see Rowsey or Duane, both grad transfer eligible, sticking. Maybe one, not both. Three seniors leave.
If we cut ties with Wojo now, next year's roster would make 2015 look like the 1992 Dream Team.
Yes every single player on the roster leaves and we have 12 walk ons the next 4 years and get 0 wins and become worse than DePaul.
At some point in time you have to look at what you have and decide if we are going in the right direction. Even with numerous 20 win seasons they felt Deane was not the answer and made a change. Bravo to them as it worked out.
A good coach can turn a program around quickly.
You can't make decisions based on who is going to stick around next year. Is the program heading in the right direction? You say yes. I say no. I don't want to be wrong but I haven't seen any improvement out of Wojo the coach. I would seriously look at other coaching options and if I feel confident in getting who I wanted, I would make the change at the end of this basketball season. At the end of year 3 in a rebuild, this team looks completely lost.
This is year 3 from Ground Zero. Buzz was on his way out midway through his last season. The NIT is progress when seen big picture. The older players on this team are UWM material (Wilson, Johnson, Rienhardt). Give the younger players another week of practice and a few more games. If tickets are $5 with free parking, I'd consider going.
Quote from: mufanatic on February 11, 2017, 01:52:48 PMA good coach can turn a program around quickly.
You can't make decisions based on who is going to stick around next year. Is the program heading in the right direction? You say yes. I say no. I don't want to be wrong but I haven't seen any improvement out of Wojo the coach. I would seriously look at other coaching options and if I feel confident in getting who I wanted, I would make the change at the end of this basketball season. At the end of year 3 in a rebuild, this team looks completely lost.
I'm going to stand by Chicos' five year policy. Scoop would've fired K or Jay Wright after 2-3 years. I'm not saying Wojo will ever reach those heights, but we won't know if we sack him now.
And all I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. There's no guarantee a new coach would turn it around any faster and there's a very real chance it would look more like Dukiet than McGuire next year if Wojo was sent packing.
Today was demoralizing. It's the most pessimistic I've felt in a long time. But I always try to keep the perspectives that the bad in retrospect usually isn't as bad as it feels in the moment, just like the good isn't an indicator that it's all seashells and balloons
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 02:56:33 PM
I'm going to stand by Chicos' five year policy. Scoop would've fired K or Jay Wright after 2-3 years. I'm not saying Wojo will ever reach those heights, but we won't know if we sack him now.
And all I'm saying is be careful what you wish for. There's no guarantee a new coach would turn it around any faster and there's a very real chance it would look more like Dukiet than McGuire next year if Wojo was sent packing.
Today was demoralizing. It's the most pessimistic I've felt in a long time. But I always try to keep the perspectives that the bad in retrospect usually isn't as bad as it feels in the moment, just like the good isn't an indicator that it's all seashells and balloons
I understand the 5 year policy and that a change doesn't mean success but I don't see the growth out of Wojo that I expect to see. I saw it in Crean and I saw it in Buzz. I don't see the adjustments out of Wojo. In game adjustments or otherwise. I don't see it in the current roster. I don't see it happening next year either. For all the bashing that Fisher gets, we are going to miss him dearly next year. Its on Wojo for failing to put Fisher in the best position to succeed.
I definitely don't see any of the freshmen bigs making any impact next year. I don't know enough about Frohling but he is mid-season.
When looking at the MU coaches over the last 20 plus years, the only coach i would say that Wojo is better than is Dukiet and that is a bit scary for me.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:14:35 PM
The NIT would be progress. I said as much before the season and stand by it.
That said, it would also be incredibly disappointing given where we were on January 24.
It's possible to be both progress and disappointing at the same time.
Would it be progress? I mean the expectations for this team were greater than the last two years, so it wouldn't be anything more than staying on par with what we've seen?
Quote from: ecompt on February 11, 2017, 01:30:44 PM
You're right. "Be patient, Wojo will get it done." OK, then.
Wojo needs to develop a new power point.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 01:41:57 PM
If you change the staff, Howard and the entire recruiting class is gone. So too is any hope at Joey Hauser. Can't see Rowsey or Duane, both grad transfer eligible, sticking. Maybe one, not both. Three seniors leave.
If we cut ties with Wojo now, next year's roster would make 2015 look like the 1992 Dream Team.
So Wojo departing would leave the cupboard bare? Hope he doesn't take the Duke job.
Chico's five year plan held a lot more water years ago. One or two players can make a big time difference in today's game. I bought into a five year window a decade ago but no longer. My biggest issue is that really is not measurable improvement.
Folks can blame Buzz all they want but he had been gone for long time in today's sports world.
Glad more people are starting to see it...Wojo just isn't the answer. I was skeptical at the time that after the Shaka snub, that MU just "settled" after that. It was like they decided they just wanted to get it done quickly. I thought Wojo could recruit, but always questioned whether he could truly coach. I think we are seeing the answer. I know after 14 years, I am 90% going to not renew my season tickets next year..it's sad because it's truly a passion for me, but it's just so hard to watch Mike Deane level basketball again. After 7-8 years being in the tourney, 3 sweet 16's and an elite 8..never in my life did I think i would see MU fall to this level again. A year or two sure but this is at the point now where you seriously have to wonder if MU will ever get back to that level again, at least under Wojo. I'm not seeing it. And next year isn't going to be any better.
Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.
This board is so mercurial. When it's good, we see it all coming together. When it's bad, it's all coming apart.
We hear that Wojo doesn't make adjustments, yet we've seen increased implementation of the 1-3-1 and today even the 2-3. We question his ability out of timeouts, yet pux shared an article this week showing decisively that Wojo is a better ATO offensive coach than Buzz ever was. We say there's no improvement when our offense has gone from allergic to scoring 2 years ago to truly elite this year.
No, it's not all pretty, but there are plenty of good signs to go along with the bad. For all the critics espousing the quick turnaround, I'll ask what I always ask. Who are these other great hires that would have us back on top in a year or two? And pardon me for laughing if Howland or Smart are mentioned
I'm not saying he's the answer, or that he's our Jay Wright, but if you haven't seen progress amidst the setbacks, you are being willfully blind. If you don't see the reconstruction of the roster and the elevation of talent, you aren't paying attention.
It's not easy, and today was infuriating to say the least, but there is still a visible plan in place.I'm willing to let it play out a bit longer. If we haven't turned the corner by 2019, then it's time to turn the page.
I am not sure if Wojo is a better basketball mind than Buzz or not. I was a Buzz guy not never felt he was a great ball mind. He brought in players with a chip on their shoulders and they played with an attitude.
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 11, 2017, 04:54:05 PM
Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.
Honestly, the new arena was why i even renewed this year, plus i also had hopes that maybe this team would sneak into the NCAAs this year. Thought i was going to be right after the Nova game, but what I have seen since, is completely disheartening, frustrating, and really gives me no hope that even by the time this program enters the new arena that they will be much better. Sure seeing the new arena would be nice, but it will mean nothing to me if MU is crap and can't win there. With an hour(ish) drive one way, every game being on TV now, fighting for parking, the cold, and most of all the product on the floor not being where I feel it should be..I just don't know if season tickets are worth it anymore, new arena or not. I'm about spent emotionally with this program..and that was even going thru the Deane days etc.
Didn't Mike Deane get a team or two to the NCAA tourney?
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 11, 2017, 12:49:02 PM
That's crap. You guys are acting like worse losers than the team.
False. You can't handle the truth. No ground to stand on.
Quote from: ecompt on February 11, 2017, 12:47:50 PM
If they do receive an NIT bid, they should reject it. No one wants to see this team play any longer than it absolutely has to.
If that is the case, why even go to Big East tournament?
Brew
I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 05:42:46 PM
Brew
I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.
Thank you Goose, you said it exactly how I feel/think. I too have a problem with the blindly optimistic ones as well. Personally, I think they know there are MAJOR issues with this program and it's direction right now, but won't admit that on these boards because "someone has to be objective". I would just like to see people call a spade a spade. That's all I'm asking. brew is an optimistic dude, hats off to him, he has a lot more patience than I do. He says progress has been made, and others have said it to, and though that may be the case, what is so hard to swallow is how close this program was to breaking into "elite" level under Buzz, just 5 years ago...so to go from THAT to what we currently have now, is a meteoric fall, and quite frankly I wonder if it can be said very often in CBB history that a program has fallen so far so fast. I know Buzz left the cupboard bare, but honestly, great Coaches have fixed programs quicker than this, it's not unprecedented at all.
If MU misses the dance again this year, that will leave only MU and DePaul that haven't made the dance in the first four years of the "new" BE, is that really something to be proud of, and the company MU wants to be keeping as a program??
Quote from: bilsu on February 11, 2017, 05:41:45 PM
If that is the case, why even go to Big East tournament?
They have to go there. The league will not allow them to not show up for that first-round game.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 05:00:58 PM
This board is so mercurial. When it's good, we see it all coming together. When it's bad, it's all coming apart.
We hear that Wojo doesn't make adjustments, yet we've seen increased implementation of the 1-3-1 and today even the 2-3. We question his ability out of timeouts, yet pux shared an article this week showing decisively that Wojo is a better ATO offensive coach than Buzz ever was. We say there's no improvement when our offense has gone from allergic to scoring 2 years ago to truly elite this year.
No, it's not all pretty, but there are plenty of good signs to go along with the bad. For all the critics espousing the quick turnaround, I'll ask what I always ask. Who are these other great hires that would have us back on top in a year or two? And pardon me for laughing if Howland or Smart are mentioned
I'm not saying he's the answer, or that he's our Jay Wright, but if you haven't seen progress amidst the setbacks, you are being willfully blind. If you don't see the reconstruction of the roster and the elevation of talent, you aren't paying attention.
It's not easy, and today was infuriating to say the least, but there is still a visible plan in place.I'm willing to let it play out a bit longer. If we haven't turned the corner by 2019, then it's time to turn the page.
I am sorry, I don't see the elevation of talent. Haanif has regressed and the freshmen have hit a wall. Froling and next year's three freshmen better be absolute studs playing 35 minutes a night or we'll be bottom feeder next season.
Quote from: muguru on February 11, 2017, 05:31:30 PM
Honestly, the new arena was why i even renewed this year, plus i also had hopes that maybe this team would sneak into the NCAAs this year. Thought i was going to be right after the Nova game, but what I have seen since, is completely disheartening, frustrating, and really gives me no hope that even by the time this program enters the new arena that they will be much better. Sure seeing the new arena would be nice, but it will mean nothing to me if MU is crap and can't win there. With an hour(ish) drive one way, every game being on TV now, fighting for parking, the cold, and most of all the product on the floor not being where I feel it should be..I just don't know if season tickets are worth it anymore, new arena or not. I'm about spent emotionally with this program..and that was even going thru the Deane days etc.
The only thing that differs for me from what you wrote is that I did not think they would make the NCAA's this year and I thought I was going to be wrong after the Villanova win.
I think Wojo, and the team, would benefit from having an ex-head coach on the bench, especially one who knows defense. Buzz had his guy from Colorado, them Wainwright. I think it would help.
Daniel
Agreed or recruit better players. 95% comes down to talent and we are lacking that to compete at high level on any kind of consistent manner.
Quote from: ecompt on February 11, 2017, 05:57:06 PM
I am sorry, I don't see the elevation of talent. Haanif has regressed and the freshmen have hit a wall. Froling and next year's three freshmen better be absolute studs playing 35 minutes a night or we'll be bottom feeder next season.
Do you not remember 2015? Was having Derrick and Juan as starters that long ago?
Brew
To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 06:19:33 PM
Brew
To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.
I supported Derrick. I think he got the short stick here, but anyone that can't see the talent disparity between him and Markus is out of their mind.
Quote from: bradley center bat on February 11, 2017, 04:54:05 PM
Let's not get emotional here. After 14 years you are not going to renew, going into the new arena in 2018.
Seems like a mistake. We'll renew next year. But we're headed back to an inexpensive ticket plan that facilitates our 'coming up when we feel like it'. It's how we began around 10 years ago. I can still remember convincing chick that the very modest investment ($99pp then) was worth it. Coming every game when both our kids were in school AND the team was outstanding was worth it. And little did I know that she would become MU's biggest female superfan. But even she's had enough. We've turned off the TV early both games this week. Better things to do and not worth getting depressed over.
We absolutely always enjoy mingling with our friends. But an empty building for a 8p start on a Tuesday when we do zero socializing is only worth it if we get to watch great basketball. Being there for Nova this year was beyond special. But anything approaching those special moments are way too infrequent these days. Candidly, I had wanted to make the change this year but was out voted. But even chick begrudgingly knows it's the right decision going forward.
Wojo, just win and we'll be back in our high roller seats. And I suspect we speak for hundreds if not thousands. Burden is on you coach. We'll be paying attention.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 06:09:40 PM
Daniel
Agreed or recruit better players. 95% comes down to talent and we are lacking that to compete at high level on any kind of consistent manner.
We have shooting talent. It is my opinion that shooters are good, because that is what they concentrate on developing. A team full of shooters is not going to be good rebounding or defensive team. Bringing in a different coach to coach them is not going to change their DNA. You need to get away from recruiting only shooters.
Quote from: muguru on February 11, 2017, 05:52:51 PM
Thank you Goose, you said it exactly how I feel/think. I too have a problem with the blindly optimistic ones as well. Personally, I think they know there are MAJOR issues with this program and it's direction right now, but won't admit that on these boards because "someone has to be objective". I would just like to see people call a spade a spade. That's all I'm asking. brew is an optimistic dude, hats off to him, he has a lot more patience than I do. He says progress has been made, and others have said it to, and though that may be the case, what is so hard to swallow is how close this program was to breaking into "elite" level under Buzz, just 5 years ago...so to go from THAT to what we currently have now, is a meteoric fall, and quite frankly I wonder if it can be said very often in CBB history that a program has fallen so far so fast. I know Buzz left the cupboard bare, but honestly, great Coaches have fixed programs quicker than this, it's not unprecedented at all.
If MU misses the dance again this year, that will leave only MU and DePaul that haven't made the dance in the first four years of the "new" BE, is that really something to be proud of, and the company MU wants to be keeping as a program??
I agree with a great deal of what you say here and yes your last fact is quite jarring.
And I don't think I was blindly optimistic, but I was optimistic because progress had been made. Slow progress but progress. Gotta admit though, I am concerned. And I'm not concerned about lack of adjustments on this team because I think there is only so much any coach can do. I am more concerned that I don't know if Wojo knows how to fit the pieces together. And that is ultimately on him.
Brew
+1 on Howard. Problem is still too many holes to fill in. As much as I wanted a better PG to Derrick I never blamed him. The guy that recruited and played him pissed me off. I respect your optimism and love of MU, but do you in your heart think we have major improvement over the last two years?
Wojo's first year was tough and thank God Matt came here. It is funny but Matt's first 8 weeks here all anyone did was bash him. That said, are we much better off than two years ago?
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 06:28:14 PM
Brew
+1 on Howard. Problem is still too many holes to fill in. As much as I wanted a better PG to Derrick I never blamed him. The guy that recruited and played him pissed me off. I respect your optimism and love of MU, but do you in your heart think we have major improvement over the last two years?
Wojo's first year was tough and thank God Matt came here. It is funny but Matt's first 8 weeks here all anyone did was bash him. That said, are we much better off than two years ago?
Two years ago we don't stand a chance against a Villanova. This team is without a doubt better, and I believe better than last year as well. I do feel Howard, Hauser, and Cheatham can still be very good for us and feel Wojo has an eye for talent.
That said, the past five games have been trying. Providence, oh well a letdown. St John's, ugh. That one irritated me because I just don't believe they are very good. Butler, well it was a close game against a good team. Today, another ugh. Isolated, or 3-2 in this stretch, not a big deal. Losing 4/5 with one win over DePaul, it's definitely disheartening and could be fatal to our season.
Come April, while a NIT berth would be a successful season (I felt that way about any postseason this year) it definitely wasn't what I was hoping for. No postseason at all...that will have me severely concerned.
Ultimately, winning is on the coach. Last year, the schedule was always going to hamstring us, but this year to truly show progress, we have to at least make the NIT. I'd support another year regardless, just to see if the addition of bigs helps the defense, but I do feel this year directly impacts the importance of the next. I'm patient, but even I have my limits.
Brew
Great reply and cannot debate any of it. I really am hoping Wojo gets the job done over the long haul.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 06:15:48 PM
Do you not remember 2015? Was having Derrick and Juan as starters that long ago?
Absolutely, and both were light years better on defense than anyone on this year's team. While player for player the team is marginally better, at the same time the league has gotten much better. I honestly don't know if Wojo can bring in the type of players you need to win in this conference. I believe his job hinges on next year's freshmen and Harry each playing 30 effective minutes a night.
Quote from: muguru on February 11, 2017, 04:50:59 PM
Glad more people are starting to see it...Wojo just isn't the answer. I was skeptical at the time that after the Shaka snub, that MU just "settled" after that. It was like they decided they just wanted to get it done quickly. I thought Wojo could recruit, but always questioned whether he could truly coach. I think we are seeing the answer. I know after 14 years, I am 90% going to not renew my season tickets next year..it's sad because it's truly a passion for me, but it's just so hard to watch Mike Deane level basketball again. After 7-8 years being in the tourney, 3 sweet 16's and an elite 8..never in my life did I think i would see MU fall to this level again. A year or two sure but this is at the point now where you seriously have to wonder if MU will ever get back to that level again, at least under Wojo. I'm not seeing it. And next year isn't going to be any better.
I also was against the Wojo hire. With Howland out there I thought it was ridiculous. I think Wojo's recruiting has been decent, i thought his coaching up until the last 10 games was awful. The last 10 he has been decent.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 06:19:33 PM
Brew
To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.
My first account got a permanent ban because I was adamantly against Derrick and one day I missed a game and asked for an update, that game Derrick got benched and someone went off in the chat (it was chicos) and I got banned by Rocky for it. Lol.
Ben Howland? Eh...no thanks.
I was more about Cuanzo.
I wanted a tested and proven coach. Something that would give the program prestige. Are last 3 hires have all been unknowns. 2 of them turned out to be hits. The last one the jury is still out.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 11, 2017, 09:10:39 PM
I wanted a tested and proven coach. Something that would give the program prestige. Are last 3 hires have all been unknowns. 2 of them turned out to be hits. The last one the jury is still out.
I just think after MU had Shaka, and then didn't, they just kind of "punted" and took Wojo. It was almost as if they were resigned to the fact that they couldn't be "big time" and they hired Wojo. I wasn't that big on Cuonzo or Howland either, but I just think they should have taken more time and made sure that someone wasnt going to enter the race late.
Doesn't Shaka's tenure at Texas thus far show that this is an inexact science at best?
Who would have been a better realistic option that year? Especially considering there was no interest in Howland and Martin botched the interview?
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 05:42:46 PM
Brew
I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.
There's a difference between blind optimism and focusing on how we can get better. I think I'm one of the "blind optimists" you are referring too. I'm well aware of the warts this team has. I think more than most. Preseason I picked us to finish 7th in conference and fighting for an NIT bid. Hardly an optimistic prediction. I'll admit I got a little drunk after the Nova game but for the most part I have kept that prediction in the back of my head. Every time we have hit a speed bump I have been angry and frustrated. I know everything could fall apart and we could be banished to the Dukiet years again. But I also know that we could get back on the right track and win our way into the tournament.
Fans come in different varieties. As annoyed as I get with some types of fans, the type of fan they are doesn't make them better or worse fans. Just different. All fans get frustrated when we lose. Some focus on the loss. I prefer to talk about the loss and how the team can get better. In the end, what we do as fans doesn't make a lick of difference. Just different coping mechanisms.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 06:19:33 PM
Brew
To be fair, many on here supported Derrick. That is my problem is blindly supporting. No college kid should be bashed on here but program or coach are open to criticism IMO. I remember watching the pro Derrick posts and being shocked.
I was pro-Derrick in the sense that he was the best of a lot of bad options. But my god he was a terrible option. I don't think any of the other "pro-Derrick" people would disagree.
Never take the eyes off the prize.
It should ALWAYS be the NCAAs.
But a long NIT run will benefit this club.
Allows JJJ, Fischer, and Katin to have the longest last year of bkb
and the Fr and So to get tournament minutes in.
...of course, barring injuries that could be sustained...
NIT games were fun when I was at MU (90s).
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 10:34:53 PM
Doesn't Shaka's tenure at Texas thus far show that this is an inexact science at best?
Who would have been a better realistic option that year? Especially considering there was no interest in Howland and Martin botched the interview?
Money can make even the most unrealistic options perhaps realistic. I think if MU were to say.. make said head coach the highest paid in college basketball, you don't think some coaches that may not have listened before, all of a sudden their ears might perk up a bit??
Quote from: muguru on February 11, 2017, 10:46:15 PM
Money can make even the most unrealistic options perhaps realistic. I think if MU were to say.. make said head coach the highest paid in college basketball, you don't think some coaches that may not have listened before, all of a sudden their ears might perk up a bit??
You don't get the chance to make someone the highest paid until they show interest. And what would we do, put out a $10M bounty on a new coach? That's what it would take to outspend Duke and Kentucky. That's also roughly 80% of the basketball budget on one guy. Unless you're suggesting they hire you and I as assistants...
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 10:54:23 PM
You don't get the chance to make someone the highest paid until they show interest. And what would we do, put out a $10M bounty on a new coach? That's what it would take to outspend Duke and Kentucky. That's also roughly 80% of the basketball budget on one guy. Unless you're suggesting they hire you and I as assistants...
Do you know anything about coaching defense?? Because admittedly, in HS I was an offensive guy myself. :) I'm in for being an assistant if you are. Could it be any worse than what we have seen lately??
I'm a firm believer it could always be worse. And me running the defense...yeah, that'd be much worse ;D
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 11, 2017, 10:54:23 PM
You don't get the chance to make someone the highest paid until they show interest. And what would we do, put out a $10M bounty on a new coach? That's what it would take to outspend Duke and Kentucky. That's also roughly 80% of the basketball budget on one guy. Unless you're suggesting they hire you and I as assistants...
Isn't marquette close to the top on spending of basketball? It's not like we have other programs that eat athletic costs.
Stop talking about how wojo isn't the answer. The season isn't over we can turn this around
Quote from: muguru on February 11, 2017, 04:50:59 PM
Glad more people are starting to see it...Wojo just isn't the answer. I was skeptical at the time that after the Shaka snub, that MU just "settled" after that. It was like they decided they just wanted to get it done quickly. I thought Wojo could recruit, but always questioned whether he could truly coach. I think we are seeing the answer. I know after 14 years, I am 90% going to not renew my season tickets next year..it's sad because it's truly a passion for me, but it's just so hard to watch Mike Deane level basketball again. After 7-8 years being in the tourney, 3 sweet 16's and an elite 8..never in my life did I think i would see MU fall to this level again. A year or two sure but this is at the point now where you seriously have to wonder if MU will ever get back to that level again, at least under Wojo. I'm not seeing it. And next year isn't going to be any better.
Yeah, it would really suck to be watching a team that busted their balls every night, beat teams they should never had come close to beating (Cincy, Louisville, etc.), go to 2 NCAAs, 2 NITs in 5 year span, and have 4 winning conference records out of 5. At this point I'd take Mike Deane coaching this bunch of guys, yes.
Quote from: jsglow on February 11, 2017, 06:23:55 PM
Seems like a mistake. We'll renew next year. But we're headed back to an inexpensive ticket plan that facilitates our 'coming up when we feel like it'. It's how we began around 10 years ago. I can still remember convincing chick that the very modest investment ($99pp then) was worth it. Coming every game when both our kids were in school AND the team was outstanding was worth it. And little did I know that she would become MU's biggest female superfan. But even she's had enough. We've turned off the TV early both games this week. Better things to do and not worth getting depressed over.
We absolutely always enjoy mingling with our friends. But an empty building for a 8p start on a Tuesday when we do zero socializing is only worth it if we get to watch great basketball. Being there for Nova this year was beyond special. But anything approaching those special moments are way too infrequent these days. Candidly, I had wanted to make the change this year but was out voted. But even chick begrudgingly knows it's the right decision going forward.
Wojo, just win and we'll be back in our high roller seats. And I suspect we speak for hundreds if not thousands. Burden is on you coach. We'll be paying attention.
There's a lot of talk about trolls and such, but fans should look at the post above and understand this is the outlook of most MU fans these days. Brew can attempt to justify coach's defense, 82 can cite Coach K, but they're anomalies. Even the diehards are receding, and this program can't survive without them, especially if idiots demand they respect the failing process. Wojo will survive this season. If he doesn't make the tournament next year, he should be handed his walking papers.
Quote from: Goose on February 11, 2017, 05:42:46 PM
Brew
I agree with you some extent but not completely. Obviously there are over reactions on both sides of the discussion. My problem is that many are blindly optimistic all the time. I want this program to succeed and succeed at a very high level but not going to follow the herd that is everything is always rosy.
IMO, the program is nowhere near I think it should be. I'm in the minority but getting HE has been Wojo's biggest win, aside from Nova game. Considering the team did nothing last year and HE is gone it really is a symbolic win in my mind.
I can 100% say I have no idea what the answer is to make things better. Can also add with a lot of confidence that something needs to be fixed.
Goose
From the cheap seats:
It would seem that the program is mired in mediocrity.
Right now there is considerable disappointment if not down right disgust with the direction of the program.
Everything points to another failed season.
Would a coaching change help?
Or should we give the boy wonder another year?
Jury is still out for some.
Only time will tell.
The real question is...how do the major donors feel?? They will ultimately be the one's to make the decision in a lot of ways.
Keefe
I hope you get a chance to read JS online today. The 100 years of basketball history is quite amazing and being able to live the glory years up close was a gift. That said, the need to make MU ball big time should be very high on everyone's priority list.
MU is known more for basketball than anything else and it should be embraced. Like any business you need to highlight your strengths and shore up your weakness. At this point the ball program is not close to being a strength.
Hope all is well out your way. I am working on closing an account out your way and will let you know in advance if I get out your way.
Quote from: muguru on February 12, 2017, 07:57:26 AM
The real question is...how do the major donors feel?? They will ultimately be the one's to make the decision in a lot of ways.
I hope Marquette isn't that short sighted.
But given that we brought in record level donations earlier this year, I think we're doing fine on that front
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 12, 2017, 10:12:06 AM
I hope Marquette isn't that short sighted.
But given that we brought in record level donations earlier this year, I think we're doing fine on that front
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For the school or the BB program?? I care only about the BB program.
I'm telling y'all. Barring a bottom two finish in the Big East next year, Wojo is here a minimum of two more seasons.
Quote from: muguru on February 12, 2017, 10:13:32 AM
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For the school or the BB program?? I care only about the BB program.
My understanding is both