1. Oops. Gotta show up every game.
2. Poor defense, poor rebounding, poor offensive execution for most of the game.
3. Providence was more aggressive on both ends most of the game. They deserved it.
4. One loss. Gonna have to make it up later. Guess we can discard that 'ranked' talk.
5. Should be easy to coach next week.
Gotta get the next two. Time to take a Scoop break.
Gotta go to LF in those two min spans when he posts strong.
HC was not good on either end today.
We were a bit lucky in coming back to beat Nova. We were a bit unlucky in being unable to come back and win this one. Frankly, if we were going to go 1-1 over those to games I'd rather have the W be against Nova. Disappointing but move on.
6. Rip our rank
7. Solid coaching throughout game by Wojo minus a few parts
8. Should have taken Fischer out when he started to deteriorate, just like wojo did vs Nova.
9. Dumb play call for Reinhardt to get it twice off timeouts. Let defense setup for him.
10. Need less of cheatham when hes playing like that. Nice drive towards the end though.
I don't think this loss had anything to don with the last game. But we really need to win home games to make our NCAA run happen. Sucks.
Outside of Rowsey and sometimes Luke, the offense was way below average today. Didn't like two hero ball attempts on the last two shots--dish to an open guy.
Quote from: TSmith34 on January 28, 2017, 03:19:34 PM
Outside of Rowsey and sometimes Luke, the offense was way below average today. Didn't like two hero ball attempts on the last two shots--dish to an open guy.
Hauser wide open at the corner on the 2nd to last shot =(
Son of a B.
Never really had a good feeling about this one during the game. It's a damn shame we lose all that momentum we had just gained. Now need to find a way to win a road game other than SJU and DePaul.
This wasn't a game we HAD to win, but it's definitely one you want to have. Disappointed.
I disagree, Rocky. PC came in desperate. MU did not have the ball movement/sharing they showed the last two games. Lacked sharpness and cohesion.
KR was well defended and put up a silly, wild shot that luckily was swatted out of bounds with 6 seconds left, so what does WOJO draw up during the time out?
The same thing.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 28, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
Gotta get the next two. Time to take a Scoop break.
These were my thoughts as well.
Ok, one more post. Should have went to Rowsey on the last possession.
Peace until Wednesday.
Wednesday is yuuuuuge.
MU outbounded PU
MU also had more assists
MU had less turnovers
PU bailed MU out on the final score by missing 13 free throws.
They hit the open threes early and MU missed the open threes. Just one of those days, but no ranking this week, that just got flushed. Have to beat a 3-6 BE team on home court.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on January 28, 2017, 03:22:16 PM
KR was well defended and put up a silly, wild shot that luckily was swatted out of bounds with 6 seconds left, so what does WOJO draw up during the time out?
The same thing.
The same thing he drew up against Nova in crunch time.
I hate the last two calls by wojo. Rowsey absolutely earned the right to have the ball in his hands and we went isolation to Reinhardt out of both timeouts, Reinhardt is not an isolation player. Oh well, tough loss, get the next two and everything will be alright.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2017, 03:21:37 PM
I disagree, Rocky. PC came in desperate. MU did not have the ball movement/sharing they showed the last two games. Lacked sharpness and cohesion.
Was that because of the last game? Or because Providence is a very good defensive team and has a lot of tall and long players that can play on the perimeter?
Said it before the game, the team that Providence most resembles is Michigan. Was worried that they would give us trouble on that end of the court.
Quote from: tower912 on January 28, 2017, 03:21:37 PM
I disagree, Rocky. PC came in desperate. MU did not have the ball movement/sharing they showed the last two games. Lacked sharpness and cohesion.
EH, foul trouble and bad shooting in the first half was our problem. Second half everyone played fine - though foul trouble still got in the way with Luke and Wilson.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 28, 2017, 03:26:28 PM
The same thing he drew up against Nova in crunch time.
Which Providence saw and defended for.
I'm not sure who it was (Hauser?), but someone was wide open in the corner in the first KR isolation sequence.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on January 28, 2017, 03:26:41 PM
I hate the last two calls by wojo. Rowsey absolutely earned the right to have the ball in his hands and we went isolation to Reinhardt out of both timeouts, Reinhardt is not an isolation player. Oh well, tough loss, get the next two and everything will be alright.
LOL what? He was an isolation player v. Creighton and Nova. On numerous occasions.
Using shooters to spread the floor and run someone in isolation is good basketball. They did that earlier and got Cheatham the open lay up.
Bummed. Bad 3pt defense came back, and we're in a tough spot now. Might need 4 of the next 5.
On the plus side, Rowsey was great. Wish the size limitations didn't prohibit more him and Howard at the same time
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
Bummed. Bad 3pt defense came back, and we're in a tough spot now. Might need 4 of the next 5.
On the plus side, Rowsey was great. Wish the size limitations didn't prohibit more him and Howard at the same time
Not only bad 3 pt defense but terrible rebounding on the defensive end.
Ya I didn't love the play calls at the end because it was too predictable. Everyone knew where the ball was going.
Quote from: GB Warrior on January 28, 2017, 03:30:50 PM
Bummed. Bad 3pt defense came back, and we're in a tough spot now. Might need 4 of the next 5.
On the plus side, Rowsey was great. Wish the size limitations didn't prohibit more him and Howard at the same time
I don't think we're particularly in a tough spot, but the next two become very big games that we need to win.
Im kinda surprised how chill scoop has been after this loss. Besides sand knit of course.
With 15 seconds, should have run some motion. Harder to do with 6 seconds. And yes, there was an open shooter in the corner. Ah, well. Didn't really deserve to win.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 28, 2017, 03:29:30 PM
LOL what? He was an isolation player v. Creighton and Nova. On numerous occasions.
Using shooters to spread the floor and run someone in isolation is good basketball. They did that earlier and got Cheatham the open lay up.
He's a shooter, very good catch and shoot and off the dribble shooter but I would not ever describe him as an isolation player. Driving to the rim is not his game, it worked against nova when he was scorching hot but by the same measure rowsey should have had the ball in his hands.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 28, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
Im kinda surprised how chill scoop has been after this loss. Besides sand knit of course.
well when the game is well coached and they lost because of missed shots instead of stupid fixable things...
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 28, 2017, 03:31:24 PM
Not only bad 3 pt defense but terrible rebounding on the defensive end.
Not really. Providence only had 7 offensive boards today.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on January 28, 2017, 03:34:36 PM
He's a shooter, very good catch and shoot and off the dribble shooter but I would not ever describe him as an isolation player. Driving to the rim is not his game, it worked against nova when he was scorching hot but by the same measure rowsey should have had the ball in his hands.
It worked against Nova AND Creighton. It most definitely in his game.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 03:35:55 PM
Not really. Providence only had 7 offensive boards today.
I knew I should have looked that up first. Maybe it seemed that way more than it was.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on January 28, 2017, 03:34:36 PM
He's a shooter, very good catch and shoot and off the dribble shooter but I would not ever describe him as an isolation player. Driving to the rim is not his game, it worked against nova when he was scorching hot but by the same measure rowsey should have had the ball in his hands.
I don't think you've been watching closely. Katin has been getting isos all of Big East play and for the most part has made opponents pay for it.
Wojo had his veteran player and best free throw shooter take it to the hole in a game where the refs have been calling it tight. The drive that was blocked could have easily been a foul. Refs didn't call it.
What I didn't like was a calling a timeout with 6 seconds left. With that little time left, I think it benefits the defense more than the offense.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 28, 2017, 03:38:57 PM
I knew I should have looked that up first. Maybe it seemed that way more than it was.
I think it just sticks out because we gave up another one off a missed FT which should never happen, and we had a crucial one in the last 40 seconds.
Pathetic...and so, so predictable.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 03:40:40 PM
I don't think you've been watching closely. Katin has been getting isos all of Big East play and for the most part has made opponents pay for it.
Wojo had his veteran player and best free throw shooter take it to the hole in a game where the refs have been calling it tight. The drive that was blocked could have easily been a foul. Refs didn't call it.
What I didn't like was a calling a timeout with 6 seconds left. With that little time left, I think it benefits the defense more than the offense.
Ya that definitely could have been a foul on the first drive.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on January 28, 2017, 03:17:33 PM
Gotta get the next two. Time to take a Scoop break.
We need as many wins as we can get. SJU is going to be a very though game. We really needed to defend the home court this afternoon. The guys just made it a little harder on themselves.
Well that sucked....
As great as the energy was on Tuesday, the team sleepwalked through this one.
Pitiful game overall.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on January 28, 2017, 03:33:15 PM
Im kinda surprised how chill scoop has been after this loss. Besides sand knit of course.
Because it is what it is...we stink on defense. Tonight couldnt shoot our way out of it against a slightly inferior team. We play some defense and our at our best on O - we can play with anyone...alternative has been true all season.
Anyone else think that layup by Haanif could have been a three-point play? He got knocked down but no call.
Radio interview with Wojo after the game, he said he just wanted a drive to the basket. Didn't really say if he drew it up for KR specifically, but yeah I was disappointed Rowsey didn't at least get his mitts on it once. Gotta go with the hot hand.
That 4 point play was magical. Got the place goin!
Gotta win these next two, let's do it!
We didnt really have any "bad" losses up until now....now we do. I had a feeling the team would not respond well after such success..
Shots just weren't falling for much of the game. I know it'll hurt us defensively, but HC's 22 minutes still might have been too much when we need some offense...especially in end of game situations. I'm not sure the ball was coming out of KR's hands regardless, but another offensive weapon may have opened things things up. I like Howard and Rowsey both in at the end instead.
Four factors calculated:
eFG%:
PC: 59.4%
MU: 51.7%
TO%:
PC: 14.4%
MU: 11.4%
OR%:
PC: 20.0%
MU: 20.6%
FTR:
PC: 52.8%
MU: 39.7%
This is the second game of the season where the team with the worse eFG% ALMOST won the game (vs. HALL was the other) but not quite. eFG% still reigns supreme.
MU was 6% under their season average for eFG%. Fischer and Rowsey's great shooting games couldn't overcome poor shooting from JJJ (42.9%), Katin (36.4%), Hauser (40%) and Duane (0%). Markus was decent with 59.1%.
MU contained Bullock, Diallo, and Holt. But PC had 5 players shoot way above their season average. Cartwright (75%), Lindsey (120%), Jackson (83.3%), Fazekas (91.7%) and White (75%).
Conclusion, poor shooting night for us, great shooting night for them. Some of that is defense, some of it is luck. We played closer to our floor, they played closer to their ceiling. We have a really good chance to beat them in the Dunk in a few weeks.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 04:20:17 PM
Conclusion, poor shooting night for us, great shooting night for them. Some of that is defense, some of it is luck. We played closer to our floor, they played closer to their ceiling. We have a really good chance to beat them in the Dunk in a few weeks.
At what point do we just admit our defense stinks. I am sure someone can do this with KenPom but it seems every team has an unbelievably lucky shooting night against the warriors.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 28, 2017, 04:10:22 PM
We didnt really have any "bad" losses up until now....now we do. I had a feeling the team would not respond well after such success..
PC is not a bad loss. It's not a good loss, but their RPI is in the 50 range.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on January 28, 2017, 04:22:45 PM
At what point do we just admit our defense stinks. I am sure someone can do this with KenPom but it seems every team has an unbelievably lucky shooting night against the warriors.
Our defense does stink but luck does have a lot to do with it. Lindsey went 4-5 from deep tonight. That's hard for players to do in shootaround. At least two of those had a hand in his face. Another was NBA range. That's more luck than bad defense.
KenPom ranks us 272nd in the country for luck. Not sure if that includes today's game or not.
Providence just always had an answer. Felt like we could turn it on at any time, but we just never did. We'd get it back to even or within a point or three, they'd run it back to 8-9. We'd run back, they'd answer. Just needed one more run and couldn't ever quite get it. It's okay, we had the leeway to lose today, but we can't lose many more of these. Makes next week all the more important.
For scheduling purposes, we probably would have been better off had this and DePaul been flipped. Get on the road, get away from the local excitement, easier to focus. I think the team thought they'd just carry momentum, and they couldn't quite do it. Getting away for a week may be best for them.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 04:25:51 PM
Our defense does stink but luck does have a lot to do with it. Lindsey went 4-5 from deep tonight. That's hard for players to do in shootaround. At least two of those had a hand in his face. Another was NBA range. That's more luck than bad defense.
KenPom ranks us 272nd in the country for luck. Not sure if that includes today's game or not.
I guess what I mean is 'luck' is a statistical unexplained driver. When running an algorithm across all of cball it is easy to call it 'luck' - however when 10 teams seem to have their luckiest game against a specific team it starts to sound like an independent variable.
I guess this teams destination was beating #1...so they got that going for them anyway...I'm sure they are proud. Just a fart in the wind. You lose to a horseshit team like that at home, and you don't deserve to dance..period. And yes, PC is a horseshit team, you should NEVER EVER lose a game like that to them at home..really no different than losing to DePaul.
They really looked like they just expected to win. I think they were just hungover...who on this board hasn't had a Marquette hangover???
Quote from: 21rooster on January 28, 2017, 04:10:34 PM
Shots just weren't falling for much of the game. I know it'll hurt us defensively, but HC's 22 minutes still might have been too much when we need some offense...especially in end of game situations. I'm not sure the ball was coming out of KR's hands regardless, but another offensive weapon may have opened things things up. I like Howard and Rowsey both in at the end instead.
HC was off the floor with foul trouble when the offense was at its worst...in the first half.
Quote from: muguru on January 28, 2017, 04:33:35 PM
I guess this teams destination was beating #1...so they got that going for them anyway...I'm sure they are proud. Just a fart in the wind. You lose to a horsecrap team like that at home, and you don't deserve to dance..period. And yes, PC is a horsecrap team, you should NEVER EVER lose a game like that to them at home..really no different than losing to DePaul.
This is the scoop I know and love (loathe)
I say it was the iniforms, Baby Blues!
Some daze you're da hound and some daze you're da hydrant, ai na?
(http://memecrunch.com/meme/3W2RY/oh-no-we-suck-again/image.png)
Providence's best Offensive Efficient game of the conference. As JayBee said pre-game, lose eFG% and you lose this game.
Quote from: muguru on January 28, 2017, 04:33:35 PM
I guess this teams destination was beating #1...so they got that going for them anyway...I'm sure they are proud. Just a fart in the wind. You lose to a horsecrap team like that at home, and you don't deserve to dance..period. And yes, PC is a horsecrap team, you should NEVER EVER lose a game like that to them at home..really no different than losing to DePaul.
Well Providence is ranked over 100 spots higher than Depaul but ok.
2/23/13: Lose 60-56 at a very average Nova...went to Elite 8
12/12/12: Lose 49-47 at UWGB...went to Elite 8
2/4/12: Blown out 76-59 at very average Notre Dame...went to Sweet 16
12/29/11: Blown out 74-57 by very average Vandy team...went to Sweet 16
12/19/11: Lose 67-59 at bad LSU team...went to Sweet 16
3/5/11: Lose 85-72 at very bad Seton hall...went to Sweet 16
2/15/11: Lose 80-68 to bad St. John's team...went to Sweet 16
1/20/10: Lose 51-50 at Depaul...went to NCAA tourney
12/5/09: Lose 77-73 to very average NC State team....went to NCAA tourney
2/6/09: Lose 57-56 at very bad South Florida...went to Round of 32
11/29/08: Blown out by bad Dayton team...went to Round of 32
3/8/08: Blown out at very average Syracuse...went to Round of 32
2/14/07: Lost 72-67 at Depaul....went to NCAA tourney
1/4/07: Blown out 74-59 at very average Providence...went to NCAA tourney
12/2/06: Lost 64-60 to North Dakota State...went to NCAA tourney
2/12/06: Lost 91-84 at Rutgers....went to NCAA tourney
11/30/05: Lost 84-74 at very average Nebraska...went to NCAA tourney
11/19/05: Lost 71-64 to Winthrop....went to NCAA tourney
Literally every year of our NCAA tourney streak we lost at least two games that we should have won except for one (in which we only lost one game we shouldn't have). Did all of those teams not deserve to dance?
10-8 gets us into the tournament. Just have to go 5-4 the rest of the way. A 1 point loss to a probable NIT team doesn't mean we won't get there.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 05:37:59 PM
Well Providence is ranked over 100 spots higher than Depaul but ok.
2/23/13: Lose 60-56 at a very average Nova...went to Elite 8
12/12/12: Lose 49-47 at UWGB...went to Elite 8
2/4/12: Blown out 76-59 at very average Notre Dame...went to Sweet 16
12/29/11: Blown out 74-57 by very average Vandy team...went to Sweet 16
12/19/11: Lose 67-59 at bad LSU team...went to Sweet 16
3/5/11: Lose 85-72 at very bad Seton hall...went to Sweet 16
2/15/11: Lose 80-68 to bad St. John's team...went to Sweet 16
1/20/10: Lose 51-50 at Depaul...went to NCAA tourney
12/5/09: Lose 77-73 to very average NC State team....went to NCAA tourney
2/6/09: Lose 57-56 at very bad South Florida...went to Round of 32
11/29/08: Blown out by bad Dayton team...went to Round of 32
3/8/08: Blown out at very average Syracuse...went to Round of 32
2/14/07: Lost 72-67 at Depaul....went to NCAA tourney
1/4/07: Blown out 74-59 at very average Providence...went to NCAA tourney
12/2/06: Lost 64-60 to North Dakota State...went to NCAA tourney
2/12/06: Lost 91-84 at Rutgers....went to NCAA tourney
11/30/05: Lost 84-74 at very average Nebraska...went to NCAA tourney
11/19/05: Lost 71-64 to Winthrop....went to NCAA tourney
Literally every year of our NCAA tourney streak we lost at least two games that we should have won except for one (in which we only lost one game we shouldn't have). Did all of those teams not deserve to dance?
10-8 gets us into the tournament. Just have to go 5-4 the rest of the way. A 1 point loss to a probable NIT team doesn't mean we won't get there.
The difference being, a majority of those MU teams(at least in my mind) were lock city before the season even started, a bad loss or two wasn't going to hurt them. This team can't afford these types of losses...can't lose to crap teams AT HOME. Sure, going 5-4 may get them in, but with the way this schedule had set up, they had a legit(or at least decent) chance of finishing 2nd..so much for that.
Rowsey had the hot hand against Pitt and got the ball at the end of the game and people wanted to fire Wojo for it. Now the ball goes to the guy who made the winning free throws on a similar play against the number 1 team in the country just 4 days ago and we're complaining the ball went back to him instead of to Rowsey? Figures.
Disappointing game. Have to bring it every night in the BE, no matter who it is against. As teamdee said, "focus on the game not the name on the front of the jersey."
Quote from: muguru on January 28, 2017, 05:51:26 PM
The difference being, a majority of those MU teams(at least in my mind) were lock city before the season even started, a bad loss or two wasn't going to hurt them. This team can't afford these types of losses...can't lose to crap teams AT HOME. Sure, going 5-4 may get them in, but with the way this schedule had set up, they had a legit(or at least decent) chance of finishing 2nd..so much for that.
I mean I'm upset at the loss too. But preseason I picked us to finish 7th in conference....so did the coaches. The fact that we are even in a position to be disappointed by losing our chance at a 2nd place finish is amazing.
If this turns into a streak, then I'll be disappointed. But if our worst loss of the season is home vs. Providence, I'll be a pretty happy camper.
Didn't seem hungry, they did. Kat and Fish need to stop eating at Mortons.
Loved Rowsey's left handed shot put 3 while getting fouled. Highlight of the game for me.
Looking back at the game again, I think the secret to PC's win was Ryan Fazekas. Except when Young is on the floor (13 minutes this game) every Friar in the game can shoot the three. Makes it very hard to use help defense when guys like Bullock and Cartwright are driving or Holt is in the post. You have to pick your poison and choose the least dangerous shooter to leave so you can help.
Wojo picked Fazekas tonight. Kid averages 13 minutes and 3 points a game and shoots 37% from the floor. His defender was the one who would step in to help. Credit Fazekas for stepping up and making Marquette pay by nailing 3 treys and a long 2 point jumper in 20 minutes of action. I think he was the difference maker for the Friars.
this has been one very very crazy week in the world of ncaa hoops-lots of dogs either winning and/or covering. we unfortunately became one of the vicitms of the dog and as 4everW always so astutely pointed out-we were the hydrant today.
FS 1 on southwest had depaul at creighton-probably good thing it wasn't on my flight as i watch/listen on bluetooth and tend to blurt out stuff without realizing. the wife doesn't like that too much as well as everyone else around me :-[ :-[
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 06:07:19 PM
Looking back at the game again, I think the secret to PC's win was Ryan Fazekas. Except when Young is on the floor (13 minutes this game) every Friar in the game can shoot the three. Makes it very hard to use help defense when guys like Bullock and Cartwright are driving or Holt is in the post. You have to pick your poison and choose the least dangerous shooter to leave so you can help.
Wojo picked Fazekas tonight. Kid averages 13 minutes and 3 points a game and shoots 37% from the floor. His defender was the one who would step in to help. Credit Fazekas for stepping up and making Marquette pay by nailing 3 treys and a long 2 point jumper in 20 minutes of action. I think he was the difference maker for the Friars.
Actually in the post game, Wojo was NOT happy about the guys leaving Fazekas..Said that was part of the scouting report..to make him a dribbler rather than a shooter.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 28, 2017, 05:58:00 PM
Rowsey had the hot hand against Pitt and got the ball at the end of the game and people wanted to fire Wojo for it. Now the ball goes to the guy who made the winning free throws on a similar play against the number 1 team in the country just 4 days ago and we're complaining the ball went back to him instead of to Rowsey? Figures.
Disappointing game. Have to bring it every night in the BE, no matter who it is against. As teamdee said, "focus on the game not the name on the front of the jersey."
It's fair criticism wades. That shot against Pitt went in and out. That was also a 3 point game, today was a 1 point game; someone had to take a 3. I don't know why you wouldn't give the ball to rowsey, the kid had an incredible game today. I don't have a problem with giving it to Reinhardt on an isolation play by itself. However, I do have a problem with running the same exact "play" with 6 seconds left after he took a hard fall the play before. I like wojo and think the team is absolutely headed in the right direction but that is not the right call at the end of this game, the ball needed to be in rowsey's hands.
When I heard the whistle on Katin's first drive, I thought he was going to get the foul call. He definitely got bodied. But I don't blame the refs for not calling it.
I have no problem with him taking the next shot, too. Just wish it went in.
muguru, who was on sabbatical after the Nova win, is back after a disappointing loss. What a shock. And he's back to being Mr. Sunshine again. Again, shocking. "Deserve" has nothing to do with anything. As TAMU showed with his list, we have had many, many "killer" losses in past seasons and survived them. It's easy to say now that those earlier teams were destined for the dance. Believe me (as Comrade Twitler would say), at the time it didn't feel like the team that lost to Green Bay was destined for greatness.
I'm not surprised we lost this one - a classic "letdown" scenario. Should that happen? Of course not. But it's sports ... there is no "should." Look around college basketball. I mean, North Carolina, which had been rolling and which Bilas just said was a viable national champ pick, just got KILLED by a Miami team that just a week earlier had gotten killed by a bad Wake Forest team.
We lost this game. It wasn't fun but it wasn't fatal. We will dance. And when our name is called, we will have "deserved" it.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on January 28, 2017, 03:26:41 PM
I hate the last two calls by wojo. Rowsey absolutely earned the right to have the ball in his hands and we went isolation to Reinhardt out of both timeouts, Reinhardt is not an isolation player. Oh well, tough loss, get the next two and everything will be alright.
I agree with you. Rowsey was hot and they kept fouling him.
It sucks to lose at home, obviously. But it sucks even more when you hear the team + coach talk about how beating #1 wasnt enough, how it wasnt enough to beat 2 ranked teams in a week, and then they lose at home?
Quote from: WayOfTheWarrior on January 28, 2017, 04:07:34 PM
Anyone else think that layup by Haanif could have been a three-point play? He got knocked down but no call.
Radio interview with Wojo after the game, he said he just wanted a drive to the basket. Didn't really say if he drew it up for KR specifically, but yeah I was disappointed Rowsey didn't at least get his mitts on it once. Gotta go with the hot hand.
That 4 point play was magical. Got the place goin!
Gotta win these next two, let's do it!
I thought Haanif was fouled.
Disappointed in the last 2 shots. Looked like Hauser was open in the corner when KR drove on the first attempt. TV showed KR looking a little shaken up on the floor after the block. Then, when it had been telegraphed to PC that KR is getting the ball, Wojo goes back to him. Didn't like that at all.
Plus it seemed that all the teams we had leapfrogged won today pushing us back on the bubble.'
Having noted that, this loss isn't bothering me that much. Not sure why.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 28, 2017, 06:55:18 PM
Disappointed in the last 2 shots. Looked like Hauser was open in the corner when KR drove on the first attempt. TV showed KR looking a little shaken up on the floor after the block. Then, when it had been telegraphed to PC that KR is getting the ball, Wojo goes back to him. Didn't like that at all.
Plus it seemed that all the teams we had leapfrogged won today pushing us back on the bubble.'
Having noted that, this loss isn't bothering me that much. Not sure why.
Exactly what I've said. Win the next two and it doesn't matter, we'll be alright.
Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on January 28, 2017, 06:55:18 PM
Disappointed in the last 2 shots. Looked like Hauser was open in the corner when KR drove on the first attempt. TV showed KR looking a little shaken up on the floor after the block. Then, when it had been telegraphed to PC that KR is getting the ball, Wojo goes back to him. Didn't like that at all.
Plus it seemed that all the teams we had leapfrogged won today pushing us back on the bubble.'
Having noted that, this loss isn't bothering me that much. Not sure why.
I'd have to rewatch, but I think the wide open guy in the corner was Cheatham.
As far as disappointment, I think I'm more disappointed that Providence beat us in Milwaukee for the first time. We're still on track for a bid, and for me, that's enough this year. Of course I'd take more, but get the next two and we're still in great shape.
Quote from: muguru on January 28, 2017, 06:18:55 PM
Actually in the post game, Wojo was NOT happy about the guys leaving Fazekas..Said that was part of the scouting report..to make him a dribbler rather than a shooter.
Whoops, well that makes me look silly. I wonder what the plan was then. Trust everyone to stay in front of their man with no help? Or was a different player supposed to come over to help? I think Fazekas would be the right choice. He and Diallo are the worst shooters on the team.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 28, 2017, 07:13:21 PM
I'd have to rewatch, but I think the wide open guy in the corner was Cheatham.
As far as disappointment, I think I'm more disappointed that Providence beat us in Milwaukee for the first time. We're still on track for a bid, and for me, that's enough this year. Of course I'd take more, but get the next two and we're still in great shape.
Still on track for the bid is all that counts. Keeping an eye on the prize.
The team stats for the game are nearly identical. However, PC shot 55% from 3, nearly 20% higher than their average. Ball game.
Is PC better without Kris Dunn?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 28, 2017, 08:06:10 PM
The team stats for the game are nearly identical. However, PC shot 55% from 3, nearly 20% higher than their average. Ball game.
The ridiculous 77.8% they shot in the first half was a killer. Just couldn't quite ever get over that hump.
PC seems a better "team" without Kris Dunn.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on January 28, 2017, 08:11:51 PM
PC seems a better "team" without Kris Dunn.
You mean other than having a worse record, RPI and KenPom ranking?
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 28, 2017, 08:14:35 PM
You mean other than having a worse record, RPI and KenPom ranking?
Well they sure looked better than the stats today.
This conference is a bear. Every possession is a battle. The other team won one more possession. I respect Ed Cooley and Company and they beat us fair and square. We just have to make some adjustments and get them on the road now.
I feel like this was a good loss for the players to learn from. They can learn they can't let up any game no matter who they are playing. The next 3 games are huge for marquette.
@St Johns
@Depaul
Vs Butler
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on January 28, 2017, 09:45:23 PM
I feel like this was a good loss for the players to learn from. They can learn they can't let up any game no matter who they are playing. The next 3 games are huge for marquette.
@St Johns
@Depaul
Vs Butler
The players didn't let up. They just got beat.
Big picture, the Nova win means significantly more than the PC loss.
Win the next two, come into that Butler game at 7-4, and let's have it.
If they win the next three they're in great shape. SJU scares the piss out of me. MU can punish their lack of discipline with their shooting, but containing their drives will be a challenge.
Butler
Creighton
Nova
Providence
Out of that four game stretch almost all expected 1-3 or MAYBE 2-2.
We are still ahead of where most thought we would be.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 28, 2017, 10:38:47 PM
If they win the next three they're in great shape. SJU scares the piss out of me. MU can punish their lack of discipline with their shooting, but containing their drives will be a challenge.
St. John's is a weird Fing team. Schizo as hell. I think they are a good matchup because they play a fast tempo (too fast for their own good sometimes) and they are a very small team now that Sima has transferred. Should be able to abuse them on offense. If we can frustrate them even a little on defense, they will devolve into playground ball.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 11:12:56 PM
St. John's is a weird Fing team. Schizo as hell. I think they are a good matchup because they play a fast tempo (too fast for their own good sometimes) and they are a very small team now that Sima has transferred. Should be able to abuse them on offense. If we can frustrate them even a little on defense, they will devolve into playground ball.
I just have flashbacks to how their press completely screwed with MU last year, and MU has been susceptible to pressure at times this season.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 28, 2017, 11:37:10 PM
I just have flashbacks to how their press completely screwed with MU last year, and MU has been susceptible to pressure at times this season.
Honestly, I think as a whole we've been very effective against the press this season.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 29, 2017, 12:01:18 AM
Honestly, I think as a whole we've been very effective against the press this season.
They've been decent enough avoiding turnovers, but haven't attacked it well. And it slows them down on the offensive end, which isn't great.
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 29, 2017, 12:09:18 AM
They've been decent enough avoiding turnovers, but haven't attacked it well. And it slows them down on the offensive end, which isn't great.
That's the entire point of 99% of the presses we've seen. Teams aren't pressing to get us out of control fast and turn us over. They're pressing us to get us starting our offense with 22 seconds on the shot clock rather than 28. And you can't really attack a press that isn't running at you, but rather keeping everything in front.
Press defense has not been an issue at all for us.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 29, 2017, 12:12:57 AM
That's the entire point of 99% of the presses we've seen. Teams aren't pressing to get us out of control fast and turn us over. They're pressing us to get us starting our offense with 22 seconds on the shot clock rather than 28. And you can't really attack a press that isn't running at you, but rather keeping everything in front.
This part I disagree with. Once they get it over halfcourt, MU has been content to get the ball to the wing out high, and regroup. There's room to attack those driving lanes most of the time, they're just not doing it.
St. John's won't have the discipline to keep everything in front, they'll try to turn MU over. I'll be interested to see how MU handles it.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 11:12:56 PM
St. John's is a weird Fing team. Schizo as hell. I think they are a good matchup because they play a fast tempo (too fast for their own good sometimes) and they are a very small team now that Sima has transferred. Should be able to abuse them on offense. If we can frustrate them even a little on defense, they will devolve into playground ball.
Does MU have a team psychologist? Talking about "schizo" teams, we are in that category. I see an issue with group psychology on our team and it is not a coach problem. We like to think that everything is correctable by the coach, I disagree, there may be a need for an outside expert.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 28, 2017, 11:12:56 PM
St. John's is a weird Fing team. Schizo as hell. I think they are a good matchup because they play a fast tempo (too fast for their own good sometimes) and they are a very small team now that Sima has transferred. Should be able to abuse them on offense. If we can frustrate them even a little on defense, they will devolve into playground ball.
SJ is really not the small, with exception for the two guards, Ponds and Lovett. Owens is 6ft 11, Yawke is 6ft 8, Ahmed, 6ft 7, etc. I believe they lead the country in blocked shots with Owens at #1. They tend to foul a bunch because they are aggressive on defense and employ a full court press. Lets hope Rowsey can break the press and not continue to pick up his dribble before half court.
The two guards are extremely quick (you saw what Cartwright did yesterday) and take over 60% of their shots. These two also like to jack up threes, but can be reckless at times, so have to shut down them down somehow.
Quote from: nyg on January 28, 2017, 03:25:34 PM
MU outbounded PU
MU also had more assists
MU had less turnovers
PU bailed MU out on the final score by missing 13 free throws.
They hit the open threes early and MU missed the open threes. Just one of those days, but no ranking this week, that just got flushed. Have to beat a 3-6 BE team on home court.
No matta.
eFG:% Providence 59.4%; MU 51.7%. #donedeal
Jay Bee--I understand using eFG% as an explanation for a win or loss as you did above.
Can efg% be used as a predication factor? I guess my question is MU is top 10 efg% and PC is north of 100--however it didnt equate to an MU win yesterday. Is the only thing to be said that PC was much more efficient than their season average and we were much less--that is why we lost?
I see top efg% 25 teams such as Loyola Akron, Lehigh, IPFW, Weber st, rice and E Tenn St. and would believe that PC would be favored over each of these teams if they played head to head.
I admit to not completing understanding this, but just wondering how helpful these numbers can be in future games. Thanks.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 29, 2017, 09:04:10 AM
Jay Bee--I understand using eFG% as an explanation for a win or loss as you did above.
Can efg% be used as a predication factor? I guess my question is MU is top 10 efg% and PC is north of 100--however it didnt equate to an MU win yesterday. Is the only thing to be said that PC was much more efficient than their season average and we were much less--that is why we lost?
I see top efg% 25 teams such as Loyola Akron, Lehigh, IPFW, Weber st, rice and E Tenn St. and would believe that PC would be favored over each of these teams if they played head to head.
I admit to not completing understanding this, but just wondering how helpful these numbers can be in future games. Thanks.
Yes... HERE you can find a little more on it (http://latenighthoops.com/marquette-four-factors-win-loss-record/#.WI4HZlMrLIU)
The other key thing to consider when comparing team's eFG%'s is the defensive side of things. Marquette is a poor defensive team. As stated in the linked article:
"eFG% remains supreme. In yesterday's loss, 3-point FG shooting was the difference. Marquette was very good, only slightly down from their season average at 40.0% (10/25 with a 43.1% 3FGA/FGA), but Providence was even better at 55.0% (11/20 with a 37.7% 3FGA/FGA.
2-point shooting was identical for the two teams (15/33 for 45.5%) and the end result was an eFG% advantage to Providence of 59.4% to 51.7%. MU gained some back from turnovers and tiny rebounding edge; Providence got to the line more often and shot sub-60%, but as we know... #FTsNoMatta.
The loss was again on the defense. Providence scored 113.5 ppp, their fourth-best performance of the season and best in 10 conference games."
Providence's offense doesn't get to play Marquette's defense every night, and they certainly don't shoot 55% from 3-point range on 20 attempts every night. 3-point shooting can be extremely volatile and a great equalizer. Yesterday, Providence made shots and had such a large eFG% that we weren't able to overcome it - despite the fact we made more FT's, rebounded slightly better, had an edge in turnovers...
Quote from: nyg on January 29, 2017, 06:49:25 AM
SJ is really not the small, with exception for the two guards, Ponds and Lovett. Owens is 6ft 11, Yawke is 6ft 8, Ahmed, 6ft 7, etc. I believe they lead the country in blocked shots with Owens at #1. They tend to foul a bunch because they are aggressive on defense and employ a full court press. Lets hope Rowsey can break the press and not continue to pick up his dribble before half court.
The two guards are extremely quick (you saw what Cartwright did yesterday) and take over 60% of their shots. These two also like to jack up threes, but can be reckless at times, so have to shut down them down somehow.
SJU's rotation:
1: Marcus LoVett: 6-0
2: Shamorie Ponds: 6-1
3: Malik Ellison: 6-6
4: Bashir Ahemd: 6-7
5: Kassoum Yakewe: 6-7
B1: Federico Mussini: 6-2
B2: Tariq Owens: 6-11
Compared to a team like Providence, that's very short.
Quote from: vogue65 on January 29, 2017, 05:30:04 AM
Does MU have a team psychologist? Talking about "schizo" teams, we are in that category. I see an issue with group psychology on our team and it is not a coach problem. We like to think that everything is correctable by the coach, I disagree, there may be a need for an outside expert.
I mean I understand the frustration, but if you look at the season as whole, we hadn't lost a game we weren't supposed to until yesterday. We hadn't won a game we weren't supposed to until @Creighton and Nova. Until this past week we had been very consistent.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 29, 2017, 09:04:10 AM
Jay Bee--I understand using eFG% as an explanation for a win or loss as you did above.
Can efg% be used as a predication factor? I guess my question is MU is top 10 efg% and PC is north of 100--however it didnt equate to an MU win yesterday. Is the only thing to be said that PC was much more efficient than their season average and we were much less--that is why we lost?
I see top efg% 25 teams such as Loyola Akron, Lehigh, IPFW, Weber st, rice and E Tenn St. and would believe that PC would be favored over each of these teams if they played head to head.
I admit to not completing understanding this, but just wondering how helpful these numbers can be in future games. Thanks.
You also have to look at the eFG% that a team's defense allows.
EDIT: Just read Jay Bee's stuff. He goes a lot more in depth.
Two constants from this game:
1) During the course of a year, a team will win some it should lose and lose some it should win. Yesterday fell into the latter category.
2) Marquette will live and die with shooting percentage. Shoot less than 50 percent, we will lose. Shoot 50 percent to 54 percent and we're going to be break-even Shoot more than 54 percent, there is little that can stop us.
One thing to note was that when Big Fishy was in the game against PC, he looked unstoppable. Keep the Fish out of foul trouble, shoot 55 percent and play a little defense and we could run the table.
And my dog flies!
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 29, 2017, 02:04:13 PM
2) Marquette will live and die with shooting percentage. Shoot less than 50 percent, we will lose. Shoot 50 percent to 54 percent and we're going to be break-even Shoot more than 54 percent, there is little that can stop us.
This is wrong and the entire premise makes no sense. What relevance does FG% have? Two teams shoot 50% in the same game, and they take the same number of shots. If everything else in the game is equal besides types of field goals made, who wins? The team with the most 3's. To ignore that is frankly bizarre.
BTW,
MU has shot less than 50% 11 times this year (which is irrelevant, but since you said if they do they'll lose...) .. they're 4-7 in those games.
When they've shot 50-54%, they're 5-0.
54%+, 5-0.
The thing is.. MU shoots a lot of treys and hasn't had many 'off nights' from deep. It's all about eFG%.. FG% is not a measure you should be using... and your claims are wrong.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 29, 2017, 09:22:21 AMThe loss was again on the defense. Providence scored 113.5 ppp, their fourth-best performance of the season and best in 10 conference games."
They didn't score that much in the entire game, much less on a per possession basis ;)