Watch the replay of the last play. Watch the referee at the bottom of the screen, and listen for a whistle after Sam grabs the rebound. He calls a foul (you can hear a whistle and see his arm go up), and he starts running into the middle of the court. When the horn sounds he whistles like 4 times, tries to put his hands up to tell people "Hold up!" as he notices the fans are storming the court, and then must've just said, "Well, too late now!"
Awesome.
PS There was definitely no foul, unless every single time a defender's hand touches a player's uniform it's a foul.
Omg didn't even realize this! This makes it that much sweeter
I saw that as well and said to my wife, hang on, hang on! The ref called a foul! Then with all the students storming the court there was no way they'd get them off the court and do anything.
And I agree, there definitely was no foul so I'm not sure what he was signaling anyway.
I didn't see it being on the other side of the arena...can you tell if the intent was to call it on us or nova? I know you observed no foul but was the body language of the ref one way or the other?
Quote from: MUBigDance on January 26, 2017, 08:32:18 PM
I didn't see it being on the other side of the arena...can you tell if the intent was to call it on us or nova? I know you observed no foul but was the body language of the ref one way or the other?
Nova to put us to the line to "ice" it
Quote from: wadesworld on January 26, 2017, 07:56:49 PM
PS There was definitely no foul, unless every single time a defender's hand touches a player's uniform it's a foul.
I was wondering if the foul was actually on the player who attempted the tip in, for over the back...but I don't know if the timing of the whistle supports that.
Either way, I think we need to strategically storm the court anytime we are ahead in a close game with < 30 seconds left. We could even do it at the DePaul game next week if necessary.
Wojo was trying to wave everyone off the court as he knew a foul had been called as well.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 26, 2017, 09:19:05 PM
Wojo was trying to wave everyone off the court as he knew a foul had been called as well.
Disagree. I think he was waving everyone away from him and the Nova players/coaches so he could have a clear lane to walk and shake their hans
Quote from: swoopem on January 26, 2017, 09:22:35 PM
Disagree. I think he was waving everyone away from him and the Nova players/coaches so he could have a clear lane to walk and shake their hans
Yup, in the presser he said it happened to them at Duke, so he just wanted to make sure the players and coaches were safe.
I'm saying this on the video I recorded. He 100% called it. Went to the scorers table for a bit before giving up.
Better replay it. Sam to the line for two shots with a second left. Those of us who weren't there can make the trip up to get our own court storming in. ;D
Based on a different post saying the clock was tied to an official's whistle in the last minute, does that mean he didn't blow his whistle to make a call since the clock ran out? Or did I misinterpret?
Had a pretty full discussion of this in a previous thread: http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=53257.msg892685#msg892685
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/joewiesner1/Capture_zps09ka7qsa.jpg)
When Sam came down with the rebound, there was time left, probably two seconds. Despite the frenzy, I had enough time to think "hey, they're not fouling. Why not foul him? And what's the velocity of an unladen swallow?"
I would imagine the ref thought the same thing. His hand goes up at 0.9 seconds, probably in reaction to Darryl Reynolds putting his hand on Sam's hip...which wasn't a foul at all, but I'm sure he had the anticipatory whistle ready to go. Not that anybody in the building would have heard it.
This Zapruder-like analysis was a good excuse to re-watch the final minute four or five times.
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 26, 2017, 10:29:22 PM
Based on a different post saying the clock was tied to an official's whistle in the last minute, does that mean he didn't blow his whistle to make a call since the clock ran out? Or did I misinterpret?
The system may have malfunctioned, which may have also had something to do with Brunson's fake grab 10 seconds prior.
Nova had no time outs left......
Make or miss the first.....
Definitely miss the second......Game over ......
Soon as that ball hits the rim......Clock on......Game over.....
1 second to rebound and throw the ball 90 feet.....Good luck.....
Quote from: chapman on January 26, 2017, 09:37:10 PM
Better replay it. Sam to the line for two shots with a second left. Those of us who weren't there can make the trip up to get our own court storming in. ;D
Except that when they stormed the court, if the game wasn't over we'd be assessed a technical foul, meaning if Sam doesn't hit at least one and Nova hits both we could be tied with 1 second left and Nova with the ball.
Ref probably thought that he didn't want to get into that nightmare scenario, especially since they had already screwed up the end of game clock and gifted Nova a time out they didn't have.
BTW I know you were joking :)
The ref definitely called the foul, and there was about .4 secs left on the clock. I remember looking up at the clock thinking that this was going to be a problem when the students started rushing, but then when i looked up again the clock said ZERO. The timekeeper must've set it after he saw the rush, or possibly one of the refs just told him to end it (as Hauser would've been shooting 2 on the other end anyway).
He did. And then he looked at all of the other variables, including several hundred people now stampeding the floor, and said "ah, f-it. Nice win."
Quote from: tower912 on January 27, 2017, 08:07:18 AM
He did. And then he looked at all of the other variables, including several hundred people now stampeding the floor, and said "ah, f-it. Nice win."
And to add to this, Jay Wright didn't say a peep. I'm guessing he thought there was no need for controversy. Another BEast team probably dances and a special moment for thousands is preserved.
Class act. We're lucky to have him representing the conference.
Quote from: Oldgym on January 26, 2017, 11:13:25 PM
(http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee245/joewiesner1/Capture_zps09ka7qsa.jpg)
When Sam came down with the rebound, there was time left, probably two seconds. Despite the frenzy, I had enough time to think "hey, they're not fouling. Why not foul him? And what's the velocity of an unladen swallow?"
I would imagine the ref thought the same thing. His hand goes up at 0.9 seconds, probably in reaction to Darryl Reynolds putting his hand on Sam's hip...which wasn't a foul at all, but I'm sure he had the anticipatory whistle ready to go. Not that anybody in the building would have heard it.
This Zapruder-like analysis was a good excuse to re-watch the final minute four or five times.
The whistle was more than "anticipatory." A whistle was blown somewhere.
Quote from: jsglow on January 27, 2017, 08:18:28 AM
And to add to this, Jay Wright didn't say a peep. I'm guessing he thought there was no need for controversy. Another BEast team probably dances and a special moment for thousands is preserved.
Class act. We're lucky to have him representing the conference.
In a couple of years, when MU is one of the top ranked teams in the country, and we lose a conference road game under similar circumstances, I hope our fanbase can react with as much class as Wright, keeping in mind that the win means more to the underdog's chances than a loss harms our own. Unless they collapse, Nova is still a 1 seed. This loss means nothing to their overall season. Not like Creighton's losses without Watson.
Posted on one of the other thread discussing this...
The official raised his hand and blew the whistle trying to get a jump on things, assuming that Nova would foul. The Nova defender got close to Hauser but never actually tried to foul him. If the player had made an obvious attempt to foul, they would have called it. The crew didn't let the call go because of the students. They did so because they recognized that Nova was conceding.
Addition: The refs cleared the court in the Oregon-UCLA game earlier this season to put less than a second back on the clock. Officials are not going to be swayed by students rushing the court. They still have a job to do and are graded accordingly.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 27, 2017, 08:31:43 AM
Posted on one of the other thread discussing this...
The official raised his hand and blew the whistle trying to get a jump on things, assuming that Nova would foul. The Nova defender got close to Hauser but never actually tried to foul him. If the player had made an obvious attempt to foul, they would have called it. The crew didn't let the call go because of the students. They did so because they recognized that Nova was conceding.
Addition: The refs cleared the court in the Oregon-UCLA game earlier this season to put less than a second back on the clock. Officials are not going to be swayed by students rushing the court. They still have a job to do and are graded accordingly.
I agree with this. I don't think there was any foul to call. May have been viewed as an inadvertent whistle.
Was the home team T'd up in that instance?
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 27, 2017, 08:58:43 AM
I agree with this. I don't think there was any foul to call. May have been viewed as an inadvertent whistle.
Was the home team T'd up in that instance?
I watched that game. And I don't think they assessed a technical because the refs had to go to the monitor to see how much time to put back on the clock. "Conveniently", that review took long enough for the PA guy to get everyone to clear the court before fans were obstructing play.
By the rules, they probably could (should?) have assessed a technical because fans can't enter the court at any time during the game. Then again, if the clock reads zero, the game is over, so the fans were in the right until the clock was changed to add time back :)
Quote from: cheebs09 on January 27, 2017, 08:58:43 AM
I don't think there was any foul to call. May have been viewed as an inadvertent whistle.
Exactly right.
Like this foul?
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/824849203578839040 (https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/824849203578839040)
Has flopping been up down or the same this year, seems like it was really bad in the recent past and was getting worse.
With MU's great guards, I'm sure it is something that is addressed, both on MU's side and when a team scouts us.
Agree foul was phantom, and may have been deemed to be after the horn anyway.
One other thing I wondered about as I rewatched those last couple minutes last night.
During the clock snafu "timeout", they showed the camera on Jay Wright in the huddle as they were drawing up their last play. Jay looked toward Brunson and said "... and if we score," something. At first it looked like he said "foul", but that wouldn't make sense. Anyone better at reading lips than I?
Quote from: warriorstrack on January 27, 2017, 10:31:54 AM
Like this foul?
https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/824849203578839040 (https://twitter.com/RobDauster/status/824849203578839040)
Has flopping been up down or the same this year, seems like it was really bad in the recent past and was getting worse.
With MU's great guards, I'm sure it is something that is addressed, both on MU's side and when a team scouts us.
I sincerely hope the NCAA starts calling technicals for flopping soon. Otherwise, this is going to get out of hand really quick.
Quote from: Benny B on January 27, 2017, 10:47:54 AM
I sincerely hope the NCAA starts calling technicals for flopping soon. Otherwise, this is going to get out of hand really quick.
Word. I will be pissed if NCAA hoops starts looking like this:
(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1277496422531i1sy.gif)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01753/celtic_1753442a.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c6fa849330fef7e83b1ddfb152baf605/tumblr_mqeamaLzbE1qe53ejo1_400.gif)
Quote from: warriorchick on January 27, 2017, 12:45:52 PM
Word. I will be pissed if NCAA hoops starts looking like this:
(http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/1277496422531i1sy.gif)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01753/celtic_1753442a.gif)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/c6fa849330fef7e83b1ddfb152baf605/tumblr_mqeamaLzbE1qe53ejo1_400.gif)
I love soccer. But those are embarrassing.
https://www.google.com/amp/thebiglead.com/2017/02/05/video-st-bonaventure-lost-because-fans-stormed-the-court-too-early/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon
I'm so glad this didn't happen to us
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/thebiglead.com/2017/02/05/video-st-bonaventure-lost-because-fans-stormed-the-court-too-early/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon
I'm so glad this didn't happen to us
Agreed. But the situation was somewhat different in at least three regards. First, it's an AUTOMATIC clock stoppage after a made basket in the final minute. No way the game way over when the ball went through the net. Second, the Bonnie bench lost self control and rushed the court when there was clearly still time on the clock. Third, the students followed their lead and quickly regaining control proved impossible. The refs had absolutely zero alternative but to assess the technical.
In our case, the clock was properly rolling and an official 50 feet away had the discretion to make a decision to swallow his whistle. Moreover, the clock continued to roll to 0:00 long before any students got near the court. I'd argue that's more like the situation yesterday when Katin went all Harlem Globetrotters in the final couple of seconds once DePaul had conceded. You simply don't blow the whistle and call traveling or double dribble essentially ruining the endgame when guys are heading to the handshake line.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/thebiglead.com/2017/02/05/video-st-bonaventure-lost-because-fans-stormed-the-court-too-early/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon
I'm so glad this didn't happen to us
Who court rushes because they beat VCU?
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 06, 2017, 02:09:52 AM
Who court rushes because they beat VCU?
Sounds like certain #donedeal declarers a few years back.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 05, 2017, 10:28:47 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/thebiglead.com/2017/02/05/video-st-bonaventure-lost-because-fans-stormed-the-court-too-early/amp/?client=ms-android-verizon
I'm so glad this didn't happen to us
The T was likely more because the bench players ran out on the court. If it was just the fans, it would have been interesting to see how it was handled. Regardless, any team whose students rush the court after beating unranked VCU deserves to get T'd up.
Quote from: #UnleashRowsey on February 06, 2017, 02:09:52 AM
Who court rushes because they beat VCU?
Why do coaches and Players get "T's"
This is a great example of how camera angles and editing can be deceiving.
Look at this fan video from another angle:
https://www.youtube.com/e/2jQ0hq2GdcA
Watch the sequence:
A) While the front and the baseline officials were waving the Bonnie's back to the bench, someone - who appears to be an usher or security - actually picked up the ball and was walking towards the TV table from the baseline waving people back. One of the VCU players realized there was time left and had to go over and rip the ball away from him, then backtracked to inbound the ball and then VCU got off a desperation heave.
B) All of the Bonnie's players/coaches who made their way onto the court had retreated by the time the ball was inbounded, with exception to the Bonnie's coach who didn't quite get off the court on time.
C) You can see the baseline official raise his hand and go to his belt (i.e. start the clock) on the inbound. The clock starts and expires (and buzzer sounded).
D) That's when court rush begins.
Therefore....
1) The fans were certainly not at fault for storming the court. They were completely in the right because the clock had expired and buzzer sounded before the storming began. Any reasonable person would have thought the game was over.
2) You can't even put the blame on the Bonnie's who left the bench for the court storming. There was enough of a gap between the time they retreated to allow the inbounds play and the time the students made their way onto the court to say it wasn't causal.
3) If the T was going to be assessed for the Bonnie's players/coaches on the court with 0.4, the baseline official should have stopped the game right there (i.e. never started the clock), but instead, it was clear by the officials hand motions that they were going to overlook that and allow the game to continue without calling a T on the bench.
So the students did nothing wrong. But in the commotion, the VCU inbounder channeled his inner-Aaron Rodgers and inbounded the ball before the coach got to the sideline. This got the official to start the clock. While basketball is not as strict with the rules regarding coaches on the field of play, the coach still being on the floor (coupled with the ensuing chaos) pretty much forced the officials to call the T after going to the monitor.
In short: if either (i) VCU waited another second to inbound (after the coach got off the court completely) or (ii) the students had not stormed the court, the Bonnie's likely get the W right there. So while neither (i) or (ii) would have, individually, caused a T, the combination of the two did.
From ESPN.com:
According to a clarification released by the conference Sunday, there were several violations that warranted an administrative technical foul.
"The administrative technical foul was assessed for multiple reasons," the conference said "The most significant was an individual taking the game ball from the inbounding baseline [assuming time had expired] and walking down the sideline, causing the VCU player to look for the ball, and chase the individual to secure the ball for inbound. Simultaneously, one of the game officials collided with a fan on the court, prior to the inbound toss. It was after these violations that the clock expired, and the students and fans stormed the court with :00 on the clock."