Fischer is one of the softest centers I have ever seen. No toughness or emotion. Always disappears in Big East play. If he's going to offer zero on the offensive end, we might as well play Heldt. At least he shows some emotion out there.
Johnson is incredibly athletic yet one of the least intelligent MU players in recent memory. Maybe THE least intelligent. It's time for both to move on. We will be better off when they do.
Worst senior leadership I have ever seen.
No offense but that's a worthless, ignorant post.
None taken but what's ignorant about it?
Nothing their mothers would want to hear but truly spot on and nothing ignorant about it.
Fischer n johnson could start for us and depaul n no other BE teams.
They are really bad.
I don't think Fish's problem is lack of effort. He is what he is and what he is is just not aggressive. He has also had some physical problems and is likely not as strong as your typical BE center.
Jajuan is also what he is. He's going to be in my top tier of MU disappointments not because he didn't stay four years and have a decent, middling career, but because he just didn't develop even after losing the ugly shot.
Yep. Plenty of bitching by some on this board that we suck because of of the lonesome cowboys leftovers. Even though 6 of the 8 guys playing now are wojo's guys who are part of the ass kicking we took. And the Cowboys leftovers are two of our leading scorers.
Face it, Wojo can recruit, but his in game coaching is less than buzz or Crean
What has become more and more obvious is that when new BEAST was formed, there was plenty of concern about Butler and Creighton coming in because they were mid majors. Those mid majors are doing a hell of a lot better than our powerhouse that has more resources and budget than those two.
Hopefully the Duke flash can improve the program, but we are already in year 3 and the light is about the same. Oh well, we can all wish for hope and change that Al 2 will be walking through the door some day.
Fisher had a terrible game on offense and defense. JJ was outplayed for most of the game. The big question that continually comes up is why our players don"t improve like the rodents do. Our players look good the first year and look awful in their final year. Are our coaches too busy recruiting instead of coaching and teaching? Case in point, Villanova's coach was busy teaching throughout the game. Our coach blurts out three word phrases.
Well, this thread is a Doody.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 08, 2017, 08:15:09 AM
Fisher had a terrible game on offense and defense. JJ was outplayed for most of the game. The big question that continually comes up is why our players don"t improve like the rodents do. Our players look good the first year and look awful in their final year.
Absolutely false.
JJJ's stats.
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jajuan-johnson-2.html
Luke's stats
http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/luke-fischer-1.html
Both have gotten better across the board since they have come to Marquette. What changes is your expectations of their performance.
Some real idiocy here. Did Luke have a bad game last night, and struggle against Seton Hall? Yes. Did JJJ have a terrible game against Seton Hall, and struggle with fouls last night? Yes. It happens.
Yet to suggest this team is better off without these two is IGNORANT.
Who cares if JJJ and Fischer have the best +/- on the team? Who cares if they have the top two PER ratings? Who cares if they are highest on team in Value Add? We would have been SO much better if Heldt, or hell, Sandy Cohen or Duane were playing in their place, right? Ridiculous. While we are playing the blame game, what about Cheatham? All of 13 points on 3 of 19 shooting while playing more minutes than any player - 97 minutes over 3 games Big East games.
We saw the impact of JJJ being off the floor in the first half with foul trouble - we are a sieve defensively with JJJ out of the game. JJJ's D-Rating is Number 1 on the team and it isn't even close. Problem for some of the ignorants around here: They can only evaluate on ball defense as how impactful a defender is - on occasion freelance, passing-lane playing, defenders will get beat off the dribble. JJJ is NUMBER 8 in all of college basketball in Steal Percentage - that is elite.
Was a rough game last night - Nova shot the lights out, Nova got a ton of touch fouls called in their favor, and they are the Number 1 team in the country coming off a loss. Perfect storm hit MU last night. Let's hope Wojo can keep the kids spirits lifted and not discouraged after the heart break in Seton Hall and last night's blowout. This team can still do good things.
One other thing.
One of the reasons UW players improve is because they have a system and players know their role. There is a consistency about their program and the types of players they recruit. I am confident that Wojo would have never looked at JJJ out of high school. Luke? Probably because he is local (like Heldt) but I think he wants more mobility.
You don't need to look any further than Jay Wright to see how a coach needs this time to build a team. Running Wojo out now would just cause more chaos and set the clock back further. You want what Villanova has? Then be patient.
Really the worst senior leadership? Juan and Derrick say hello. Not to mention I recal a team with a 7th year senior, two 5th year seniors and regular senior not even making the NIT a few years back.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 08, 2017, 09:23:04 AM
One other thing.
One of the reasons UW players improve is because they have a system and players know their role. There is a consistency about their program and the types of players they recruit. I am confident that Wojo would have never looked at JJJ out of high school. Luke? Probably because he is local (like Heldt) but I think he wants more mobility.
You don't need to look any further than Jay Wright to see how a coach needs this time to build a team. Running Wojo out now would just cause more chaos and set the clock back further. You want what Villanova has? Then be patient.
Really?
Being patient will bring you a number one ranking and a national championship?
So if MU remains unable to play defense the rest of this year and next, just be patient?
I'm not saying Wojo should be fired, but it's time to look seriously at whether the guy can actually coach. Not just recruit, but good old X's and O's teaching, in-game adjustments, etc.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on January 08, 2017, 09:55:58 AM
Really the worst senior leadership? Juan and Derrick say hello. Not to mention I recal a team with a 7th year senior, two 5th year seniors and regular senior not even making the NIT a few years back.
Are you not aware that it is blasphemy to call into question the merits of the "senior leadership" of Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson, by the resident "experts" here?
"Senior Leadership" is the Meme of Meme's around here.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on January 08, 2017, 10:02:42 AM
Really?
Being patient will bring you a number one ranking and a national championship?
So if MU remains unable to play defense the rest of this year and next, just be patient?
I'm not saying Wojo should be fired, but it's time to look seriously at whether the guy can actually coach. Not just recruit, but good old X's and O's teaching, in-game adjustments, etc.
I never said it would bring you a championship, but it will bring you a stable program in the long-run.
And he can coach. He's better than he was in previous years, but not at the level we want him to be yet.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on January 08, 2017, 10:02:42 AM
Really?
Being patient will bring you a number one ranking and a national championship?
So if MU remains unable to play defense the rest of this year and next, just be patient?
I'm not saying Wojo should be fired, but it's time to look seriously at whether the guy can actually coach. Not just recruit, but good old X's and O's teaching, in-game adjustments, etc.
Yes. Really. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament. It took him 15 years to win a national championship. He's now in his 16th year. Building a dynasty, building a program like Villanova's takes time. I'm sick and tired of all the pathetic bitching on here. This fanbase is a bunch of entitled babies that thinks becoming a perennial top-10 team happens overnight. There is only one team in the top-10 with a coach that has less than 7 years of experience at his current job, and that's fourth-year coach Steve Alford, who is also in his 22nd year as a Division I coach with 9 previous NCAA appearances.
Quote from: mayfairskatingrink on January 08, 2017, 10:02:42 AM
Really?
Being patient will bring you a number one ranking and a national championship?
So if MU remains unable to play defense the rest of this year and next, just be patient?
I'm not saying Wojo should be fired, but it's time to look seriously at whether the guy can actually coach. Not just recruit, but good old X's and O's teaching, in-game adjustments, etc.
I am not sure coaching is the real issue here. Watching the game yesterday, Nova just has better players. They are Top 5 for a reason. We are overmatched against them. Right now MU has two two solid starters, Howard and Hauser. We have little if any inside game. Luke needs to do better than 4 points being the biggest guy on the floor. I do not think anyone expected HC to regress as much as he has. DW is hurt, Carter left. Reinhardt is the only guy coming off the bench who seems to be able to get it going. Rowsey can light up once in a while, but he was defended very well last night and struggled. Nova is just a bad matchup for us. I do think we can rebound this week against SH and get back to .500 in BE play. Two very winnable home games this week that MU needs to get.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 10:21:39 AM
Yes. Really. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament. It took him 15 years to win a national championship. He's now in his 16th year. Building a dynasty, building a program like Villanova's takes time. I'm sick and tired of all the pathetic bitching on here. This fanbase is a bunch of entitled babies that thinks becoming a perennial top-10 team happens overnight. There is only one team in the top-10 with a coach that has less than 7 years of experience at his current job, and that's fourth-year coach Steve Alford, who is also in his 22nd year as a Division I coach with 9 previous NCAA appearances.
How dare you bring up Alford? All the experts here know the guy is a loser and jerk. However, the guy is absolutely a good coach that can produce results. He knows basketball.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 08, 2017, 10:32:04 AM
How dare you bring up Alford? All the experts here know the guy is a loser and jerk. However, the guy is absolutely a good coach that can produce results. He knows basketball.
He may be a decent coach but he's a terrible human being. I will take a million Creans and Buzzes before I take one Alford.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 08, 2017, 10:32:04 AM
How dare you bring up Alford? All the experts here know the guy is a loser and jerk. However, the guy is absolutely a good coach that can produce results. He knows basketball.
I've never been a fan of his, but he's done well there with that brand. They're playing an attractive style of ball, recruiting well, and look to be headed back to the upper echelon if they keep it up. Considering how many people (myself included) were ready to write them off as the next fallen dynasty like Indiana when they fell off under Howland, he's been a revelation.
Quote from: Nostradamus on January 08, 2017, 10:08:22 AM
Are you not aware that it is blasphemy to call into question the merits of the "senior leadership" of Derrick Wilson and Juan Anderson, by the resident "experts" here?
"Senior Leadership" is the Meme of Meme's around here.
Ners?
Odd to see people who insist that Wojo inherited a dumpster fire now defending the players that consisted of said dumpster fire.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 10:21:39 AM
Yes. Really. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament. It took him 15 years to win a national championship. He's now in his 16th year. Building a dynasty, building a program like Villanova's takes time. I'm sick and tired of all the pathetic bitching on here. This fanbase is a bunch of entitled babies that thinks becoming a perennial top-10 team happens overnight. There is only one team in the top-10 with a coach that has less than 7 years of experience at his current job, and that's fourth-year coach Steve Alford, who is also in his 22nd year as a Division I coach with 9 previous NCAA appearances.
If we are going to give a guy that much time we should probably have hired someone who will stay for 15 years. I'm all for letting a guy grow if he is willing to be an MU guy for 16 years.
If wojo makes this a perennial even top 25 team what are the chances he stays and we don't have to start it all over again?
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 08, 2017, 01:24:34 PM
If we are going to give a guy that much time we should probably have hired someone who will stay for 15 years. I'm all for letting a guy grow if he is willing to be an MU guy for 16 years.
If wojo makes this a perennial even top 25 team what are the chances he stays and we don't have to start it all over again?
I think Wojo will be here awhile under those circumstances. But even if he isn't, you hope someone from his staff would be ready to assume the top job at that point. That's what has helped programs like Butler and Xavier.
Woj's had 3 years and we still have a roster with little depth. Is it too much to expect?
I will miss them both and appreciate them staying and finishing their careers at MU. Both have skills, but also limitations. Neither is suited to being 'the man.' It is their misfortune to play on teams that need them to be better than they are. If Luke was playing with Henry a second year and was able to be the paint defender and garbage man around the hoop with the occasional post move thrown in, he would be appreciated. If JjJ was playing on a team where he consistently received the 3rd pass in rotation, able to make a move against a recovering defender, versus catching the ball with the defender squared, we would appreciate his opportunistic attacks to the basket. Alas....
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 08, 2017, 01:27:55 PM
Woj's had 3 years and we still have a roster with little depth. Is it too much to expect?
Little depth? We have a roster where there's only one player that couldn't go for 20pts on any given night. Jay write even mentioned our offensive depth as his concern going into the game
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 08, 2017, 01:27:55 PM
Woj's had 3 years and we still have a roster with little depth. Is it too much to expect?
Would MU have depth if a couple players had not decided that with the talent on hand they would not get enough playing time? In other words, darn those talented players in front of me. I'm leaving. Do you want players who are content to sit the bench? Duane's injury is a problem. Personally, I lean toward Sacar taking off the redshirt. I realize that mine is a minority opinion, but is it helping his game more to sit, or would it have helped his development more to get 10 minutes of run yesterday?
Without seeing each player's transcript, it is very difficult to know if it is, indeed, time to graduate.
Luke and Jujuan would need the required 120 credits, with at least 60 of them being obtained at Marquette, including the last 30, (although I know exceptions are made for study abroad programs).
Either way, I wish the best of these young men luck, and hope they feel proud of their accomplishments when it is truly the right time for them to graduate.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 12:05:17 PM
Wouldn't that be Nerstradamus?
(https://media.giphy.com/media/bBwpG1FN6c41i/giphy.gif)
Brew, you have far and away the two best posts of the last 24 hours.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 10:21:39 AM
Yes. Really. It took Jay Wright 4 years to get to the tournament. It took him 15 years to win a national championship. He's now in his 16th year. Building a dynasty, building a program like Villanova's takes time. I'm sick and tired of all the pathetic bitching on here. This fanbase is a bunch of entitled babies that thinks becoming a perennial top-10 team happens overnight. There is only one team in the top-10 with a coach that has less than 7 years of experience at his current job, and that's fourth-year coach Steve Alford, who is also in his 22nd year as a Division I coach with 9 previous NCAA appearances.
Damn it, brew. Stop with all the reason and logic and facts.
We need to tar and feather a few guys around these parts. Wojo, Luke and JJJ apparently are the tarrees and featherees.
And if you don't stop with all the facts, you're next!
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 08, 2017, 01:24:34 PM
If we are going to give a guy that much time we should probably have hired someone who will stay for 15 years. I'm all for letting a guy grow if he is willing to be an MU guy for 16 years.
If wojo makes this a perennial even top 25 team what are the chances he stays and we don't have to start it all over again?
You never know how long a guy will stay. But the question is if you want to build a program that can compete for National Championships or a program that can compete for Sweet 16s. In order to have the former, you need continuity. Look at any of the Champs of this century. It took guys like Donovan, K, Wright, and Calhoun a long time to build their programs into title winners. Guys like Ollie, Self, and Calipari may have won sooner, but one did it with the old coach's players and the other two do it with elite level recruiting that we simply cannot hope to match, certainly not in a 3 year window.
We can't base what we do on whether the guy will leave. Maybe Wojo will be our next Al McGuire. Maybe he will get us to a Final Four in 2019 and bolt for Duke. I don't know. But I do know that if we hire band-aid, quick-fix coaches, they might make us more competitive in the short term, but will likely do so with players that won't meet the expectations administration has of our program and with a roster that won't survive the long-term.
Maybe I have more patience because I'm a Cubs fan, but from the moment they hired Theo, you could see the straight line of progress. I see that here right now as well. I see players like Cheatham and Heldt that are smart players that do the right thing and don't get down too easily. I see players like Howard and Hauser that have star potential. And I see recruiting decisions that fill in the gaps on our roster (size when we need size, shooting when we need shooting, transfers that provide depth at our weakest spots).
We live in a please-me-now society, but that mentality and mindset doesn't get you to the apex in this sport. Getting to the top requires patience, dedication, and a clear plan. I think it's pretty evident we have the makings of that. Hopefully Wojo sticks around long enough to see it out, and if not, hopefully someone like Johnson or even Diener can step in and finish the job. As Sultan mentioned, that's how programs like Xavier and Butler have sustained success.
JJJ didn't bother me last night. I think the refs called some ticky tack fouls on him and that limited his ability. Still managed to put up some decent numbers.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 08, 2017, 03:19:51 PM
You never know how long a guy will stay. But the question is if you want to build a program that can compete for National Championships or a program that can compete for Sweet 16s. In order to have the former, you need continuity. Look at any of the Champs of this century. It took guys like Donovan, K, Wright, and Calhoun a long time to build their programs into title winners. Guys like Ollie, Self, and Calipari may have won sooner, but one did it with the old coach's players and the other two do it with elite level recruiting that we simply cannot hope to match, certainly not in a 3 year window.
We can't base what we do on whether the guy will leave. Maybe Wojo will be our next Al McGuire. Maybe he will get us to a Final Four in 2019 and bolt for Duke. I don't know. But I do know that if we hire band-aid, quick-fix coaches, they might make us more competitive in the short term, but will likely do so with players that won't meet the expectations administration has of our program and with a roster that won't survive the long-term.
Maybe I have more patience because I'm a Cubs fan, but from the moment they hired Theo, you could see the straight line of progress. I see that here right now as well. I see players like Cheatham and Heldt that are smart players that do the right thing and don't get down too easily. I see players like Howard and Hauser that have star potential. And I see recruiting decisions that fill in the gaps on our roster (size when we need size, shooting when we need shooting, transfers that provide depth at our weakest spots).
We live in a please-me-now society, but that mentality and mindset doesn't get you to the apex in this sport. Getting to the top requires patience, dedication, and a clear plan. I think it's pretty evident we have the makings of that. Hopefully Wojo sticks around long enough to see it out, and if not, hopefully someone like Johnson or even Diener can step in and finish the job. As Sultan mentioned, that's how programs like Xavier and Butler have sustained success.
Nah. Let's change coaches every season or 2 (or maybe mid-season) until we win a national championship. Start calling us Swansea while we're at it.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 08, 2017, 03:35:15 PM
Nah. Let's change coaches every season or 2 (or maybe mid-season) until we win a national championship. Start calling us Swansea while we're at it.
8-) 8-) 8-) Winner
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on January 08, 2017, 10:35:19 AM
He may be a decent coach but he's a terrible human being. I will take a million Creans and Buzzes before I take one Alford.
And you know he is terrible human being...how?
Quote from: willie warrior on January 08, 2017, 07:10:41 PM
And you know he is terrible human being...how?
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2013/03/31/bernstein-ucla-hired-a-scumbag/#.UViRQ9zW1h0.twitter
Quote from: Let's Go Warriors on January 08, 2017, 01:24:34 PM
If we are going to give a guy that much time we should probably have hired someone who will stay for 15 years. I'm all for letting a guy grow if he is willing to be an MU guy for 16 years.
If wojo makes this a perennial even top 25 team what are the chances he stays and we don't have to start it all over again?
Don't forget the context. Marquette had just had Shaka for a millisecond, and then lost him. To then end up with a coach that several other schools had persued and couldn't get an interview with was kinda impressive.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 08, 2017, 01:27:55 PM
Woj's had 3 years and we still have a roster with little depth. Is it too much to expect?
Interesting, given that Jay Wright's comments about Marquette pregame mentioned depth as a strength for Marquette.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 08, 2017, 03:20:23 PM
JJJ didn't bother me last night. I think the refs called some ticky tack fouls on him and that limited his ability. Still managed to put up some decent numbers.
I agree with this analysis.
I think JJJ is more of a leader than Fish
Luke Fischer is clearly in the early stages of "mailing it in" and not giving a rat's A$$.....
Time for a little "therapy" riding the pines and not starting.....
Maybe a little attitude adjustment will make him care.....
Because right now.....He is going thru the motions.....
Quote from: burger on January 09, 2017, 07:28:29 AM
Luke Fischer is clearly in the early stages of "mailing it in" and not giving a rat's A$$.....
Time for a little "therapy" riding the pines and not starting.....
Maybe a little attitude adjustment will make him care.....
Because right now.....He is going thru the motions.....
Wojo needs to give him a wake up call
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on January 09, 2017, 08:42:48 AM
Wojo needs to give him a wake up call
Let's see if he starts Wednesday, it seem to work last time.