No shows outpacing us in attendance by 3:1. I'd post a picture but it's a bit embarrassing.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on December 19, 2016, 06:04:48 PM
No shows outpacing us in attendance by 3:1. I'd post a picture but it's a bit embarrassing.
Look at the calendar and look at the opponent. Its like this every year.
School is out, it's the holidays, weather is crappy, and we have a joke opponent. Glow and I are here, but I can't blame anyone for blowing this one off.
Looks like a Georgetown game at da Verizon, hey>
It's so empty in here the wifi actually works.
might as well bump the thread that explains this every year....
The Gruber Law tee shirt toss became the Gruber Law tee shirt handout.
The parking lots were still going for $25 :-[
What percent of those in attendance are scoopers?
Warrior chick
+1
Made me laugh on a cold night!!!
I thought this was about the warriors tonight
Quote from: Goose on December 19, 2016, 07:44:26 PM
Warrior chick
+1
Made me laugh on a cold night!!!
I stole that joke from glow.
I'm a no-show tonight. The 6 pm tips are tough to get to when the wife doesn't get home until after 5. Add in the weather and the opponent, and just wasn't feeling it.
i was in my uncles box/suite, the west bend theater boxes, #15. there were some people who never left their tables. just sat around talking like they were at the dinner table with a b-ball game going on right outside. i suppose they could see it on the tv's, but...food was pretty good. deserts got me heading for the elliptical first thing in the morning.
we were 26 point favs. saw wojo pop a couple of blood vessels and rightly so. man did fish miss a number of 1-2 footers. playing down to the competition i hope.
I couldn't leave work in Brookfield until around 5:30. With the roads still slick — I passed two accidents on the way — the afternoon traffic was crawling. It took me almost an hour to cover the 13 miles to the Bradley Center. I listened to the first 10 minutes of the game on the radio. At that point, decided to keep going and watch the rest at home.
I took the one year old solo to the game....not sure anyone else gets to make excuses for not attending ;D
Quote from: mu03eng on December 19, 2016, 10:18:17 PM
I took the one year old solo to the game....not sure anyone else gets to make excuses for not attending ;D
If you are going to play cupcakes all the time, play one at the Al then. Crowd was ridiculous, no students, no enthusiasm. on TV at 6, cold out, might be more fun
even at the Panther Stadium. Wednesday will be just as bad. This time of year there is alot going on, not sure why not bring in at least a mid-major, in the Top 100.
Al least for Wednesday.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on December 19, 2016, 11:27:58 PM
If you are going to play cupcakes all the time, play one at the Al then. Crowd was ridiculous, no students, no enthusiasm. on TV at 6, cold out, might be more fun
even at the Panther Stadium. Wednesday will be just as bad. This time of year there is alot going on, not sure why not bring in at least a mid-major, in the Top 100.
Al least for Wednesday.
Because even with a big name opponent attendance would still be weak. Better to have crappy teams in front of crappy crowds instead of a good team in front of a crappy crowd.
Most of our students aren't local. The dorms closed last Wednesday I believe. Students don't have any place to stay this week. No matter what you do, there will be no students at games during winter break. And with no students, there is no energy.
I'm a fan of getting into one of those holiday tournaments during this week. If the crowd is going to suck, play a neutral site game.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 20, 2016, 12:41:35 AM
Because even with a big name opponent attendance would still be weak. Better to have crappy teams in front of crappy crowds instead of a good team in front of a crappy crowd.
Most of our students aren't local. The dorms closed last Wednesday I believe. Students don't have any place to stay this week. No matter what you do, there will be no students at games during winter break. And with no students, there is no energy.
I'm a fan of getting into one of those holiday tournaments during this week. If the crowd is going to suck, play a neutral site game.
Closed Saturday at noon but your point still stands.
Quote from: mu03eng on December 19, 2016, 10:18:17 PM
I took the one year old solo to the game....not sure anyone else gets to make excuses for not attending ;D
So you are one of those guys who wants props for taking care of your own child.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 19, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
i was in my uncles box/suite, the west bend theater boxes, #15. there were some people who never left their tables. just sat around talking like they were at the dinner table with a b-ball game going on right outside. i suppose they could see it on the tv's, but...food was pretty good. deserts got me heading for the elliptical first thing in the morning.
we were 26 point favs. saw wojo pop a couple of blood vessels and rightly so. man did fish miss a number of 1-2 footers. playing down to the competition i hope.
Your uncle has a box and you were in it, hey?
Quote from: warriorchick on December 20, 2016, 08:05:30 AM
So you are one of those guys who wants props for taking care of your own child.
(https://cdn.meme.am/instances/500x/59854341.jpg)
It was definitely a small crowd and at tip off it was really bad. However,about half way through the first half it filled in quite a bit. Early game, crappy opponent, cold as you know what.
Stop complaining about the crowd and focus the attention on the inability of the team to play a good second half.
We need to schedule some good non conference teams next season at home to get attendance up and have maybe a good win
Quote from: TheGym on December 20, 2016, 08:56:36 AM
It was definitely a small crowd and at tip off it was really bad. However,about half way through the first half it filled in quite a bit. Early game, crappy opponent, cold as you know what.
Stop complaining about the crowd and focus the attention on the inability of the team to play a good second half.
Because Scoop can impact team performance more than crowd attendance???
Quote from: GoldenEagles32 on December 20, 2016, 09:06:58 AM
We need to schedule some good non conference teams next season at home to get attendance up and have maybe a good win
Eh, in the grand scheme of things attendance for the season will be top 25 and the marginal cost of improving quality opponents vs the increase in walk-up/single games is not positive.
Remember, season ticket holders already paid for these games, so them showing up or not doesn't matter from a financial standpoint, only an "environment" standpoint. Improving buy games is only for improving perception and a tiny increase in walk-ups.
For me, buy games, especially this time of year should only be determined based on two factors: ability to provide a decent "practice" opponent for the team and at a minimum not hurt the RPI overall(hopefully improve it).
Quote from: mu03eng on December 20, 2016, 09:15:35 AM
Because Scoop can impact team performance more than crowd attendance???
Can't impact either one, but one is important, the other is a byproduct of the first.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 19, 2016, 09:39:26 PM
i was in my uncles box/suite, the west bend theater boxes, #15. there were some people who never left their tables. just sat around talking like they were at the dinner table with a b-ball game going on right outside. i suppose they could see it on the tv's, but...food was pretty good. deserts got me heading for the elliptical first thing in the morning.
we were 26 point favs. saw wojo pop a couple of blood vessels and rightly so. man did fish miss a number of 1-2 footers. playing down to the competition i hope.
Well he sure doesn't play up to the competition...
Quote from: mu03eng on December 20, 2016, 09:21:03 AM
Eh, in the grand scheme of things attendance for the season will be top 25 and the marginal cost of improving quality opponents vs the increase in walk-up/single games is not positive.
Remember, season ticket holders already paid for these games, so them showing up or not doesn't matter from a financial standpoint, only an "environment" standpoint. Improving buy games is only for improving perception and a tiny increase in walk-ups.
For me, buy games, especially this time of year should only be determined based on two factors: ability to provide a decent "practice" opponent for the team and at a minimum not hurt the RPI overall(hopefully improve it).
I agree with all of this, but I think you are underestimating the importance of the "environment" standpoint.
I decided to come to MU after attending a home basketball game my junior year of high school (Final Four year in 2002-2003). I never even took a formal visit to campus. After that game I knew where I wanted to go. Granted, it was a home win over UW, the only other school I was considering (I got accepted to both). So maybe that's not a fair comparison.
I hate to say this, but if the MU game I had attended was St. Francis in 2016, I'd probably have been a Badger. I wanted to go to a school that was crazy about, and good at, basketball. I don't know if I would have made the same decision if I was currently a high school junior.
Quote from: Coleman on December 20, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
I agree with all of this, but I think you are underestimating the importance of the "environment" standpoint.
I decided to come to MU after attending a home basketball game my junior year of high school (Final Four year in 2002-2003). I never even took a formal visit to campus. After that game I knew where I wanted to go. Granted, it was a home win over UW, the only other school I was considering (I got accepted to both). So maybe that's not a fair comparison.
I hate to say this, but if the MU game I had attended was St. Francis in 2016, I'd probably have been a Badger. I wanted to go to a school that was crazy about, and good at, basketball. I don't know if I would have made the same decision if I was currently a high school junior.
I don't disagree with this...but I don't think many perspective students go to a cupcake for their first mu game.
Quote from: Coleman on December 20, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
I wanted to go to a school that was crazy about, and good at, basketball.
Yep. That's why I said "no" to all of the Ivies.
Quote from: Coleman on December 20, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
I agree with all of this, but I think you are underestimating the importance of the "environment" standpoint.
I decided to come to MU after attending a home basketball game my junior year of high school (Final Four year in 2002-2003). I never even took a formal visit to campus. After that game I knew where I wanted to go. Granted, it was a home win over UW, the only other school I was considering (I got accepted to both). So maybe that's not a fair comparison.
I hate to say this, but if the MU game I had attended was St. Francis in 2016, I'd probably have been a Badger. I wanted to go to a school that was crazy about, and good at, basketball. I don't know if I would have made the same decision if I was currently a high school junior.
I don't know if they still do it but back when my kids were matriculating MU had 'accepted students' day. It was always against a big name opponent and there was always a give-away. I've personally escorted my share of candidates into the Courtside Club for the full treatment. I believe my daughter got a GTown game and my son got ND.
Quote from: jsglow on December 20, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
I don't know if they still do it but back when my kids were matriculating MU had 'accepted students' day. It was always against a big name opponent and there was always a give-away. I've personally escorted my share of candidates into the Courtside Club for the full treatment. I believe my daughter got a GTown game and my son got ND.
They certainly did up to my 4th year.
I remember mine was vs Cuse, we lost in OT but I still have the free hat I got! (Also believe that's the highest attended game in MU history)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 20, 2016, 12:41:35 AM
Because even with a big name opponent attendance would still be weak. Better to have crappy teams in front of crappy crowds instead of a good team in front of a crappy crowd.
Most of our students aren't local. The dorms closed last Wednesday I believe. Students don't have any place to stay this week. No matter what you do, there will be no students at games during winter break. And with no students, there is no energy.
I'm a fan of getting into one of those holiday tournaments during this week. If the crowd is going to suck, play a neutral site game.
Hmm...back in my day a third of the students were from the Milwaukee area and another third were from Illinois and greater Wisconsin. It was always a good rule to date a towny...always had a car to get around. Most of the students that lived on campus lived far away, my room mate was from California and I was from New Jersey. We had only two Wisconsin residents on our floor at Schroeder my Frosh year. Curious to know how many commuter students currently go to MU?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 20, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
Hmm...back in my day a third of the students were from the Milwaukee area and another third were from Illinois and greater Wisconsin. It was always a good rule to date a towny...always had a car to get around. Most of the students that lived on campus lived far away, my room mate was from California and I was from New Jersey. We had only two Wisconsin residents on our floor at Schroeder my Frosh year. Curious to know how many commuter students currently go to MU?
It is under 10%.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on December 20, 2016, 02:30:29 PM
Hmm...back in my day a third of the students were from the Milwaukee area and another third were from Illinois and greater Wisconsin. It was always a good rule to date a towny...always had a car to get around. Most of the students that lived on campus lived far away, my room mate was from California and I was from New Jersey. We had only two Wisconsin residents on our floor at Schroeder my Frosh year. Curious to know how many commuter students currently go to MU?
That was a long long time ago
Quote from: Coleman on December 20, 2016, 01:43:07 PM
I agree with all of this, but I think you are underestimating the importance of the "environment" standpoint.
I decided to come to MU after attending a home basketball game my junior year of high school (Final Four year in 2002-2003). I never even took a formal visit to campus. After that game I knew where I wanted to go. Granted, it was a home win over UW, the only other school I was considering (I got accepted to both). So maybe that's not a fair comparison.
I hate to say this, but if the MU game I had attended was St. Francis in 2016, I'd probably have been a Badger. I wanted to go to a school that was crazy about, and good at, basketball. I don't know if I would have made the same decision if I was currently a high school junior.
I chose MU to get a good Jesuit education and become more independent as my folks would be about a thousand mile away. Sometimes the life of an only child can be a bit overbearing and it was good to spread my wings; not that I and my folks did not get a long, we did. Basketball played no role in my decision. In fact I had no interest in the game until I came to MU.
Quote from: warriorchick on December 20, 2016, 02:31:38 PM
It is under 10%.
I believe the cost of tuition and books were way more reasonable when I attended. Still can't believe my 9 semesters at MU (double major in Chemistry/Biology) was under 12K.
Quote from: jsglow on December 20, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
I don't know if they still do it but back when my kids were matriculating MU had 'accepted students' day. It was always against a big name opponent and there was always a give-away. I've personally escorted my share of candidates into the Courtside Club for the full treatment. I believe my daughter got a GTown game and my son got ND.
Nitpicking here but my Freshman year we had Notre Dame away. I remember it because I was at U of I that weekend and remember watching the game in one of the dorms there and we got absolutely smoked.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 20, 2016, 08:07:04 AM
Your uncle has a box and you were in it, hey?
i should have seen this one coming...wait, i shoulda anticipated this occurring. reminds me of the one where the teacher is afraid to call on "dirty ernie", 'ey?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 20, 2016, 02:54:01 PM
Nitpicking here but my Freshman year we had Notre Dame away. I remember it because I was at U of I that weekend and remember watching the game in one of the dorms there and we got absolutely smoked.
Do I have it flipped skywalker? Wait, aren't you '15? My kids are '14/'16.
Quote from: jsglow on December 20, 2016, 04:38:53 PM
Do I have it flipped skywalker? Wait, aren't you '15? My kids are '14/'16.
Yea, I was '15, so my Freshman year would have been Glow Jr's senior year, when he got accepted, no?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 20, 2016, 02:13:37 PM
I don't disagree with this...but I don't think many perspective students go to a cupcake for their first mu game.
Right, but that wasn't the entirety of my point. The point is the game environment matters. Strength of opponent and strength of our team play a big part of that. Both have gone down considerably since our original Big East days. Game attendance, which is also a factor in environment, and largely a product of the first two factors, has also come down.
These things matter to prospective students. At least they did to me. I am an alum and will cheer for MU and hate Bucky until the day I die but if my allegiance had not already been cast I do not know if I would have picked the same way in 2016.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 20, 2016, 04:47:05 PM
Yea, I was '15, so my Freshman year would have been Glow Jr's senior year, when he got accepted, no?
Yep.
Quote from: Coleman on December 20, 2016, 04:54:45 PM
Right, but that wasn't the entirety of my point. The point is the game environment matters. Strength of opponent and strength of our team play a big part of that. Both have gone down considerably since our original Big East days. Game attendance, which is also a factor in environment, and largely a product of the first two factors, has also come down.
These things matter to prospective students. At least they did to me. I am an alum and will cheer for MU and hate Bucky until the day I die but if my allegiance had not already been cast I do not know if I would have picked the same way in 2016.
I'd guess that we'll have more games against top 10 teams this year than we did in any season in the old BE (limited to regular season). Probably not top 25 though.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 20, 2016, 06:17:16 PM
I'd guess that we'll have more games against top 10 teams this year than we did in any season in the old BE (limited to regular season). Probably not top 25 though.
Maybe, but I doubt it. Right now there are 2 top 10 teams (#1 and #9) in the Big East. I only looked at 1 year, but in 2010-11 the Big East had 4 teams in the top 8 when the conference season started.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2016, 11:04:27 PM
Maybe, but I doubt it. Right now there are 2 top 10 teams (#1 and #9) in the Big East. I only looked at 1 year, but in 2010-11 the Big East had 4 teams in the top 8 when the conference season started.
Don't challenge wadesworld. Aren't you aware that he is the smartest man on this board?
Quote from: jsglow on December 20, 2016, 02:22:10 PM
I don't know if they still do it but back when my kids were matriculating MU had 'accepted students' day. It was always against a big name opponent and there was always a give-away. I've personally escorted my share of candidates into the Courtside Club for the full treatment. I believe my daughter got a GTown game and my son got ND.
come on man, this game was priceless from the standpoint that you got(and kept, i hope) your ticket from this game-it had a picture of a player who is not even on our team-sandy.
when sandy makes it big at say madison or duke, and then the "big show", that ticket is going to be gold baby!
Quote from: jonny09 on December 21, 2016, 12:20:21 AM
Don't challenge wadesworld. Aren't you aware that he is the smartest man on this board?
Your words. I appreciate that.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2016, 11:04:27 PM
Maybe, but I doubt it. Right now there are 2 top 10 teams (#1 and #9) in the Big East. I only looked at 1 year, but in 2010-11 the Big East had 4 teams in the top 8 when the conference season started.
We play each team twice in this version of the Big East, and Xavier and Butler will also have chances to jump into the top 10 throughout the conference season.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 20, 2016, 11:04:27 PM
Maybe, but I doubt it. Right now there are 2 top 10 teams (#1 and #9) in the Big East. I only looked at 1 year, but in 2010-11 the Big East had 4 teams in the top 8 when the conference season started.
In 2005-2006 we played 3 games against top 10 teams, 2 in 2006-2007, 0 in 2007-2008, 3 in 2008-2009, 5 in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, 3 in 2011-2012, and 1 in 2012-2013.
We played 6 last year. And all those numbers included non conference as well, and all 6 of our top 10 games last year were conference opponents. My guess is we play 5 games against top 10 teams this year.
Quote from: jonny09 on December 21, 2016, 12:20:21 AM
Don't challenge wadesworld. Aren't you aware that he is the smartest man on this board?
...so...oops?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 21, 2016, 08:02:41 AM
In 2005-2006 we played 3 top 10 teams, 2 in 2006-2007, 0 in 2007-2008, 3 in 2008-2009, 5 in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, 3 in 2011-2012, and 1 in 2012-2013.
We played 6 last year. And all those numbers included non conference as well, and all 6 of our top 10 opponents last year were conference opponents...
...so...oops?
And yet our strength of schedule was still complete $hit
Quote from: wadesworld on December 21, 2016, 08:02:41 AM
In 2005-2006 we played 3 games against top 10 teams, 2 in 2006-2007, 0 in 2007-2008, 3 in 2008-2009, 5 in 2009-2010 and 2010-2011, 3 in 2011-2012, and 1 in 2012-2013.
We played 6 last year. And all those numbers included non conference as well, and all 6 of our top 10 games last year were conference opponents. My guess is we play 5 games against top 10 teams this year.
...so...oops?
1.Last year is irrelevant, since you didn't even mention it in your post.
2,You originally stated: "I'd guess we'll play MORE games against top 10 opponents than we did in ANY season in the old Big East
3.I looked at one year (2010-11) and replied "Maybe, but I doubt it".
4.Your research (good or bad, I don't know) says we played 5 top 10 opponents that year.
5.Your opinion is that we'll play 5 top 10 opponents this year.
6.Five is not MORE than five.
7. Your original opinion (which I doubted) is now also doubted by you.
8.Oops.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 21, 2016, 09:02:34 AM
1.Last year is irrelevant, since you didn't even mention it in your post.
2,You originally stated: "I'd guess we'll play MORE games against top 10 opponents than we did in ANY season in the old Big East
3.I looked at one year (2010-11) and replied "Maybe, but I doubt it".
4.Your research (good or bad, I don't know) says we played 5 top 10 opponents that year.
5.Your opinion is that we'll play 5 top 10 opponents this year.
6.Five is not MORE than five.
7. Your original opinion (which I doubted) is now also doubted by you.
8.Oops.
I don't know how many we'll play. But there are currently 2 teams in the top 10 in the BE and we are guaranteed 2 games against them. Plus there are 2 other teams that I think could jump into the top 10 at some point, so we could also play them at times they're ranked in the top 10. Doubt is implied when you say, "I'd guess." Never said, "I guarantee." I said, "I'd guess." So yup, there was doubt implied there. Sorry that it took you a second post on the subject to realize it. Once again we come upon reading comprehension issues with you.
I was responding to the idea that attendance has gone down in part because the strength of our opponents has gone down since the new BE was developed (AKA we no longer get any big name opponents or marquee matchups...my position is that any time you're playing a top 10 team it's a marquee, big name matchup), which means that last year is very relevant, since last year was new BE as opposed to old BE. Oops?
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
Even the day of the week where UConn is 5-5 and Creighton is no 9 in the country?
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
Unfortunately that is absolutely true. While Creighton and Butler are solid opponents, they do not have the cachet of the two you mentioned. This is the best MU could have hoped for and we need to just accept that it is what it is. I do miss playing the teams you mentioned along with Cincy, Ville and WVU. Colorful teams with colorful coaches and there always was a buzz in the Bradley Center when they came into town.
Bag, how many NCAA banners are hanging in Omaha?
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
The BE was actually more watered down in the old version, with not only St. John's and DePaul dragging the league down, but also with South Florida, Providence (who was bad then), Seton Hall (who was bad then), and Rutgers all bringing the overall quality of the conference down. That was at least 6 games that you
should win every year, guaranteed, and depending on who your mirror opponents were it was probably more than that. Now we get 4 games we
should win without an issue.
The top might be
a little worse, but when you have teams the caliber of this year's Nova, Creighton, Xavier, and Butler each year (the teams may not always be the same teams that are up, but there are always solid teams) it certainly is a tough conference.
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 21, 2016, 10:33:33 AM
Unfortunately that is absolutely true. While Creighton and Butler are solid opponents, they do not have the cachet of the two you mentioned. This is the best MU could have hoped for and we need to just accept that it is what it is. I do miss playing the teams you mentioned along with Cincy, Ville and WVU. Colorful teams with colorful coaches and there always was a buzz in the Bradley Center when they came into town.
Bag, how many NCAA banners are hanging in Omaha?
NCAA tournament or NCAA tournament championship? Point is you might miss them, but really you miss having Jim Calhoun on that sideline, sooner or later you would be ragging on UConn like they're Depaul and last time I checked nobody says anything fond about Depaul. Remember a couple years ago when Nova hit rock bottom? Like nobody showed up for that game and it'd be the same against UConn this year.
But hey if you want to spend you life saying "I wish things were like this still" when they can't ever go back and everybody knew they were going to fall apart anyways then go right ahead.
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
Well goose, those days are gone and are never coming back. Consider this: MU could easily be in the A-10 if things hadn't broken the right way a decade ago.
The whining about the NBE is really getting old. It's not as though we had some long standing tradition within the conference anyway - we had UConn and Syracuse as conference members for *eight* seasons. Yep that's it. Eight.
Just over a decade ago we were playing conference games against the likes of East Carolina, Southern Miss and Charlotte.
We are in so much better shape now it's not even funny. People should appreciate it. There is a reason the C7 broke off when they did.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 21, 2016, 10:46:37 AM
The whining about the NBE is really getting old. It's not as though we had some long standing tradition within the conference anyway - we had UConn and Syracuse as conference members for *eight* seasons. Yep that's it. Eight.
Just over a decade ago we were playing conference games against the likes of East Carolina, Southern Miss and Charlotte.
We are in so much better shape now it's not even funny. People should appreciate it. There is a reason the C7 broke off when they did.
Plus a million. It's simply an excuse for folks. Seriously Sultan, you need to come down for some games. You might even get a chance to play with #noredforowen.
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
For now. There was a time where City College of New York was a more exciting game than Syracuse. Times change. We have no option to play UConn and Syracuse every year so let's hope Creighton and Butler continue to do well and change the national perceptive on them.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 21, 2016, 10:46:37 AM
The whining about the NBE is really getting old. It's not as though we had some long standing tradition within the conference anyway - we had UConn and Syracuse as conference members for *eight* seasons. Yep that's it. Eight.
Just over a decade ago we were playing conference games against the likes of East Carolina, Southern Miss and Charlotte.
We are in so much better shape now it's not even funny. People should appreciate it. There is a reason the C7 broke off when they did.
Not sure if this is directed at my posts or not, but I definitely wasn't whining. I honestly don't care who we play as long as the atmosphere is good (full house and rowdy crowd), we are performing well, and an important team on the national stage.
None of that has happened in recent memory. Changing SOS and conference membership is certainly part of the reason.
Are we better off now than we were in CUSA? Of course. Was the current conference the best possible outcome? Of course. Has the excitement, competition, competitiveness, and prestige of MU basketball taken a hit over the past 4 years? There can be no doubt. To deny it is to deny reality. You can tell me not to lament this reality, but you certainly can't deny it.
All of yall need to stop living in the past. Its not the opponents that are the issue, its the fact were not winning.
You make it seem like the current Big East is a bad conference, when in reality we sent 60% of the conference to the NCAA tourney last year, and can very easily do the same again this year.
Hell, if football didnt exist, I bet you a team like Kentucky would kill to be in the Big East versus the SEC. The biggest reason I was pissed off with Bazz when he left was because of the backhanded comments on the Big East.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on December 21, 2016, 11:06:43 AM
All of yall need to stop living in the past. Its not the opponents that are the issue, its the fact were not winning.
I actually agree with you 100% on the primary cause. Our team's recent futility is certainly largest factor.
But you draw bigger crowds when you are not winning against UCONN, Louisville, and Syracuse than you do when you are not winning against Butler, Creighton and Xavier...even if all three of those teams are currently ranked.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 11:02:36 AM
Not sure if this is directed at my posts or not, but I definitely wasn't whining. I honestly don't care who we play as long as the atmosphere is good (full house and rowdy crowd), we are performing well, and an important team on the national stage.
None of that has happened in recent memory. Changing schedule is certainly part of that reason.
Are we better off now than we were in CUSA? Of course. Was the current conference the best possible outcome? Of course. Has the excitement, competition, competitiveness, and prestige of MU basketball taken a hit over the past 4 years? There can be no doubt. To deny it is to deny reality. You can tell me not to lament this reality, but you certainly can't deny it.
It's because of the lack of tournament success. That's it. When we were winning in CUSA, people showed up to East Carolina. If we were still in the OBE and losing, people wouldn't show up for Rutgers and we'd be bitching about it.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 21, 2016, 10:42:27 AM
NCAA tournament or NCAA tournament championship? Point is you might miss them, but really you miss having Jim Calhoun on that sideline, sooner or later you would be ragging on UConn like they're Depaul and last time I checked nobody says anything fond about Depaul. Remember a couple years ago when Nova hit rock bottom? Like nobody showed up for that game and it'd be the same against UConn this year.
But hey if you want to spend you life saying "I wish things were like this still" when they can't ever go back and everybody knew they were going to fall apart anyways then go right ahead.
Interesting. I guess MU fans never bring up 1977 or Al McGuire. You are right, one can never go back. In case you are wondering, it's called tradition. They have it and so do we.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 21, 2016, 09:21:08 AM
I don't know how many we'll play. But there are currently 2 teams in the top 10 in the BE and we are guaranteed 2 games against them. Plus there are 2 other teams that I think could jump into the top 10 at some point, so we could also play them at times they're ranked in the top 10. Doubt is implied when you say, "I'd guess." Never said, "I guarantee." I said, "I'd guess." So yup, there was doubt implied there. Sorry that it took you a second post on the subject to realize it. Once again we come upon reading comprehension issues with you.
I was responding to the idea that attendance has gone down in part because the strength of our opponents has gone down since the new BE was developed (AKA we no longer get any big name opponents or marquee matchups...my position is that any time you're playing a top 10 team it's a marquee, big name matchup), which means that last year is very relevant, since last year was new BE as opposed to old BE. Oops?
First you "guessed" we'd play MORE top 10 teams
Then you "guessed" we'd play the same amount of top 10 teams.
My reading comprehension suggests that those two "guesses" are different.
My opinion is that they are both likely incorrect.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 21, 2016, 11:30:21 AM
First you "guessed" we'd play MORE top 10 teams
Then you "guessed" we'd play the same amount of top 10 teams.
My reading comprehension suggests that those two "guesses" are different.
My opinion is that they are both likely incorrect.
I guessed we'd play more without knowing the exact number of top 10 teams we played each year in the old BE. That's why it was a guess, hence why I said, "I'd...(you *guessed* it!)
guess," and not, "I know for certain..." I "guess" (note: don't know for certain, but *guessing,* though all signs point to it being true) you don't know what a *guess* is. It's when there is some *uncertainty.*
Reading comprehension really does help.
After looking at the actual *unquestionable facts* (see: no longer guessing) it turned out we actually played
more games against top 10 teams last year in the new BE than we ever had in the old version. That is a *fact* and not a *guess.* No uncertainty there.
Can I spell out anything else for you Mr. Lenny?
Can both of you put each other on ignore and be done with the bickering?
Quote from: 79Warrior on December 21, 2016, 11:20:18 AM
Interesting. I guess MU fans never bring up 1977 or Al McGuire. You are right, one can never go back. In case you are wondering, it's called tradition. They have it and so do we.
Is that "They" referring to UConn or Depaul or Creighton? I'm going to assume it refers to UConn...
And Depaul and Creighton don't? We have loads of tradition, you are right, and yet we've sucked and I'd gaurantee we aren't exactly packing in other teams' stadiums. In fact if you want to get a slap in the face go over to HolylandofHoops and get a sense of the opinion of Marquette now. My point was that if a team with tradition is winning it's great to see them sure but UConn isn't winning and it isn't looking good for the future so why are we wasting time wishing we still played them?
Quote from: wadesworld on December 21, 2016, 12:03:28 PM
I guessed we'd play more without knowing the exact number of top 10 teams we played each year in the old BE. That's why it was a guess. I "guess" (note: don't know for certain, but *guessing,* though all signs point to it being true) you don't know what a *guess* is. It's when there is some *uncertainty.*
Reading comprehension really does help.
I know what a guess is. My guess is that your totally and admittedly uniformed first guess which you subsequently backpedaled from AND your new guess that you switched to once you informed yourself a little on the subject will both be wrong guesses.
Your broken record silliness about reading comprehension is as ridiculous as it's redundant. You are not confounding me or anyone else. Your points are never complex but often demonstrably false. Defending untrue facts or bad logic by claiming to be misunderstood just digs the hole deeper.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 21, 2016, 12:27:49 PM
I know what a guess is. My guess is that your totally and admittedly uniformed first guess which you subsequently backpedaled from AND your new guess that you switched to once you informed yourself a little on the subject will both be wrong guesses.
Your broken record silliness about reading comprehension is as ridiculous as it's redundant. You are not confounding me or anyone else. Your points are never complex but often demonstrably false. Defending untrue facts or bad logic by claiming to be misunderstood just digs the hole deeper.
That's what a guess is pal, so you obviously do
not know what a guess is. If you had all of the facts there would be no reason to guess. You would know, factually. Here, the following link may help:
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/guess?s=t
1. to arrive at or commit oneself to an opinion about (something) without having sufficient evidence to support the opinion fully
So yes, my guess was prior to "informing myself." My stating that I was guessing should've told you this a long, long time ago because the very definition of a guess is exactly that.
And you actually got something right. My points aren't complex at all. I agree 100%. The fact that you make it so difficult says everything you need to know. You're the only Scooper who struggles with it. Ever wonder why?
I know you two are talking about AP rankings at the time of the game but it got me thinking so I did some research on Kenpom. This is based off year end rankings and the last two columns are how many
HOME games we played against top 10 and top 25 teams each season. Obviously the 2017 numbers are projections at this point.
Year | Conf | Rank | Rating | Top 10 | Top 25 |
2002 | CUSA | 7 | 8.12 | 1 | 1 |
2003 | CUSA | 7 | 7.65 | 1 | 3 |
2004 | CUSA | 8 | 7.02 | 0 | 2 |
2005 | CUSA | 9 | 6.94 | 1 | 3 |
2006 | BE | 1 | 13.94 | 1 | 3 |
2007 | BE | 5 | 13.55 | 1 | 4 |
2008 | BE | 4 | 13.21 | 2 | 4 |
2009 | BE | 2 | 15.25 | 1 | 4 |
2010 | BE | 3 | 15.01 | 0 | 2 |
2011 | BE | 2 | 16.44 | 2 | 6 |
2012 | BE | 3 | 12.72 | 0 | 3 |
2013 | BE | 2 | 13.77 | 1 | 4 |
2014 | BE | 5 | 12.24 | 0 | 3 |
2015 | BE | 2 | 14.23 | 2 | 5 |
2016 | BE | 3 | 13.92 | 1 | 3 |
2017 | BE | 3 | 14.75 | 2 | 5 |
2010 was quite the anomaly because we only played the top teams in the Big East (Syracuse, West Virginia) on the road that year. The conference had an amazing three year run culminating with 2011 and it really struggled the first year after realignment (2014) but overall we're pretty lucky to still be in such a great conference. I know some of the schools that left have bigger fan bases so it added to the excitement of those home games but in terms of the quality of the teams coming to Milwaukee, we're doing pretty well.
Quote from: Goose on December 21, 2016, 10:22:33 AM
The BE is watered down and nowhere near the excitement level with new BE. I'll take playing UConn and Syracuse over Creighton and Butler any day of the week.
Conference has the National Champions and four teams currently considered amongst the 15 best in the country.
As I wrote a month ago about all the teeth gnashing around the MU program, the flames are fanned by those who will die soon and feel they are entitled to the program on their own terms rather then the terms of reality.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on December 21, 2016, 12:13:31 PM
Can both of you put each other on ignore and be done with the bickering?
+ infinity
Quote from: CornMeehl on December 21, 2016, 01:02:19 PM
I know you two are talking about AP rankings at the time of the game but it got me thinking so I did some research on Kenpom. This is based off year end rankings and the last two columns are how many HOME games we played against top 10 and top 25 teams each season. Obviously the 2017 numbers are projections at this point.
Year | Conf | Rank | Rating | Top 10 | Top 25 |
2002 | CUSA | 7 | 8.12 | 1 | 1 |
2003 | CUSA | 7 | 7.65 | 1 | 3 |
2004 | CUSA | 8 | 7.02 | 0 | 2 |
2005 | CUSA | 9 | 6.94 | 1 | 3 |
2006 | BE | 1 | 13.94 | 1 | 3 |
2007 | BE | 5 | 13.55 | 1 | 4 |
2008 | BE | 4 | 13.21 | 2 | 4 |
2009 | BE | 2 | 15.25 | 1 | 4 |
2010 | BE | 3 | 15.01 | 0 | 2 |
2011 | BE | 2 | 16.44 | 2 | 6 |
2012 | BE | 3 | 12.72 | 0 | 3 |
2013 | BE | 2 | 13.77 | 1 | 4 |
2014 | BE | 5 | 12.24 | 0 | 3 |
2015 | BE | 2 | 14.23 | 2 | 5 |
2016 | BE | 3 | 13.92 | 1 | 3 |
2017 | BE | 3 | 14.75 | 2 | 5 |
2010 was quite the anomaly because we only played the top teams in the Big East (Syracuse, West Virginia) on the road that year. The conference had an amazing three year run culminating with 2011 and it really struggled the first year after realignment (2014) but overall we're pretty lucky to still be in such a great conference. I know some of the schools that left have bigger fan bases so it added to the excitement of those home games but in terms of the quality of the teams coming to Milwaukee, we're doing pretty well.
Great research. Thanks for providing this.
The current Big East is just fine. And the bottom half of the BE is much stronger than it was in its former alignment.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on December 21, 2016, 01:23:03 PM
Conference has the National Champions and four teams currently considered amongst the 15 best in the country.
As I wrote a month ago about all the teeth gnashing around the MU program, the flames are fanned by those who will die soon and feel they are entitled to the program on their own terms rather then the terms of reality.
You are absolutely correct though i don't think you should make it a generational thing. There are just as many late Crean era and Buzz era entitled Scoopers as there are Al era - unless, that is, you are marking them for early demises.
Quote from: naginiF on December 21, 2016, 02:00:03 PM
You are absolutely correct though i don't think you should make it a generational thing. There are just as many late Crean era and Buzz era entitled Scoopers as there are Al era - unless, that is, you are marking them for early demises.
Count me as one of the people spoiled by Crean-Buzz era successes.
I have never expected Al McGuire levels of success. But Crean and Buzz both established a baseline of making the NCAA tournament on a consistent basis, and having a deep postseason run every few years. More years than not, MU was a ranked team. It is disappointing that we couldn't maintain it. I am still holding out hope for Wojo, but to say it has not been a disappointment thus far would be a lie.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 02:22:58 PM
I have never expected Al McGuire levels of success. But Crean and Buzz both established a baseline of making the NCAA tournament on a consistent basis, and having a deep run once or twice a decade. It is disappointing that we couldn't maintain it. I am still holding out hope for Wojo, but to say it has not been a disappointment thus far would be a lie.
Agree, if that's not the baseline for program expectations, then what is?
Quote from: RJax55 on December 21, 2016, 02:26:04 PM
Agree, if that's not the baseline for program expectations, then what is?
Well of course those should be the baseline. I guess people just disagree how far away we were from achieving those expectations when Wojo took over.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 21, 2016, 02:27:26 PM
Well of course those should be the baseline. I guess people just disagree how far away we were from achieving those expectations when Wojo took over.
I just really wonder what people thought Buzz would've done with the roster he left. No power in the 'verse was turning that 2015 bunch into a tourney squad.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 21, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
I just really wonder what people thought Buzz would've done with the roster he left. No power in the 'verse was turning that 2015 bunch into a tourney squad.
Well for starters, JJJ and Teve would have been gowne had Buzz stayed. Burton probably still leaves but that's a guess. I think Dawson probably still leaves too. Mayo is for sure still gone. Noskowiak would have still been a non-starter. You do have Shayok, Hill, Cohen, and Pierce in the fold. So the lineup would have probably looked like:
PG: Derrick Wilson
SG: Duane Wilson, Ahmed Hill
SF: Marial Shayok, Sandy Cohen
PF: Juan Anderson
C: Luke Fischer, Satchel Pierce
That lineup isn't doing jack. Impossible to know what grad transfers he might have nabbed if any. Too many variables to project beyond that first season.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 21, 2016, 03:03:17 PM
I just really wonder what people thought Buzz would've done with the roster he left. No power in the 'verse was turning that 2015 bunch into a tourney squad.
You're right, but he would have rebuilt faster than this. We would have been a tournament team again by 2016-2017. Look at where Virginia Tech is now.
If Wojo can rally this team and make the tournament, I'll be happy. But if Buzz's VT team makes it before we do, that is super depressing.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 03:34:22 PM
You're right, but he would have rebuilt faster than this. We would have been back in the tourney by 2016. Look at where Virginia Tech is now.
Really? Highly doubt that, he was no longer able to use the quick fixes he's able to at VT and on top of that the amount of transfers he always caused would've left him scrambling even more
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 21, 2016, 03:37:13 PM
Really? Highly doubt that, he was no longer able to use the quick fixes he's able to at VT and on top of that the amount of transfers he always caused would've left him scrambling even more
Buzz has always been all about quick fixes and transfers. He built most of MU's success on it. You can hate his tactics, but they translated into successful basketball teams. It seemed like a scramble but we always did well.
2014-2015 would have been a down year no matter the coach, but we would have bounced back very quickly under Buzz.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 03:34:22 PM
You're right, but he would have rebuilt faster than this. We would have been a tournament team again by 2016-2017. Look at where Virginia Tech is now.
If Wojo can rally this team and make the tournament, I'll be happy. But if Buzz's VT team makes it before we do, that is super depressing.
Why? He's a better coach. He left on his own. Marquette didn't fire him.
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 21, 2016, 03:39:03 PM
Why? He's a better coach. He left on his own. Marquette didn't fire him.
MU didn't fire him but it is disingenuous to say he left on his own. We all know there were plenty of politics and power struggles between Buzz and the administration, starting at the very top with Pilarz.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 03:38:31 PM
Buzz has always been all about quick fixes and transfers. He built most of MU's success on it. You can hate his tactics, but they translated into successful basketball teams. It seemed like a scramble but we always did well.
2014-2015 would have been a down year no matter the coach, but we would have bounced back very quickly under Buzz.
Except loads of players he would've been trying to get would not be allowed in anymore so his get good quick schemes wouldn't be remotely as effective. Also I don't hate Buzz or his tactics, I'm apathetic towards him/them. I hate Calipari's tactics and he's pretty much the only one.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 21, 2016, 03:46:04 PM
Except loads of players he would've been trying to get would not be allowed in anymore so his get good quick schemes wouldn't be remotely as effective. Also I don't hate Buzz or his tactics, I'm apathetic towards him/them. I hate Calipari's tactics and he's pretty much the only one.
Ya gotta add Scott Drew to that short list!
(totally agree on everything else - how we get basketball success speaks much more to the institutions appeal to students than a rowdy crowd during Holiday break)
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 03:41:52 PM
MU didn't fire him but it is disingenuous to say he left on his own. We all know there were plenty of politics and power struggles between Buzz and the administration, starting at the very top with Pilarz.
It takes two to tango. Yes there power struggles. Definite fault on the administration's side. Also fault on Buzz' side. The changes the administration wanted weren't necessarily the best but they weren't unreasonable either. A good employee makes his thoughts known and then accepts the decision of the boss.
Quote from: Coleman on December 21, 2016, 03:34:22 PM
You're right, but he would have rebuilt faster than this. We would have been a tournament team again by 2016-2017. Look at where Virginia Tech is now.
Impossible to know. But I won't argue with anyone claiming that Buzz is a better coach right now.
i thought buzz had a little more humility than what he showed-at least he talked the talk