MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: DienerTime34 on December 13, 2016, 11:29:20 AM

Poll
Question: Would you take Buzz or Crean back?
Option 1: Take Crean votes: 15
Option 2: Take Buzz votes: 32
Option 3: Both votes: 18
Option 4: Neither votes: 46
Title: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: DienerTime34 on December 13, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
If they offered to come back at the end of this year. Or do you think Wojo is on a path to do better than both?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 13, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
Both coaches are proven and bigger names then wojo. I would have to say yes.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: SERocks on December 13, 2016, 11:34:20 AM
Buzz in a heartbeat.  He and the team had personality.  We were different.  I like Wojo and think he is on the right path, eventually, but it is kinda dull and boring.  Doesn't have the quirkiness that seemed to be MUs calling card.  I am sure Wojo is better for the "reputation" and all that, but I like "butcher, baker and candlestick maker" quirkiness from time to time.  :)

Crean, no way.  Seemed slimy, to me anyway.  He certainly is a good coach and is having good  success, and I thank him for elevating our program once again.  But no to Crean.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 13, 2016, 11:34:39 AM
Quote from: DienerTime34 on December 13, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
If they offered to come back at the end of this year. Or do you think Wojo is on a path to do better than both?

The answer is no.

The reaction is this thread is evil and must be destroyed.

Besides, Marquette doesn't recruit basketball players with high enough academic credentials to understand Crean's complex schemes.  Better he coach at Wisconsin.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 13, 2016, 11:35:34 AM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 13, 2016, 11:34:19 AM
Both coaches are proven and bigger names then wojo. I would have to say yes.

Of course you do.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Marqus Howard on December 13, 2016, 11:37:09 AM
No. Wouldn't even consider it.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Eldon on December 13, 2016, 11:41:25 AM
I'd say no, strictly based on non-basketball reasons.

What about O'Neill?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: RJax55 on December 13, 2016, 11:43:13 AM
Crean, yes. Buzz, no.

I say no on Buzz because it became pretty apparent that both parties (Buzz & MU) had very different views on how the program should be run. Yes, things were good early on, but as time passed, those differences came to light. And, not surprisingly, since I really don't think either party truly knew and understood each other when the hire was made. Buzz was here what 9 months before getting the job. Anyway, not to rehash everything, but organizational fit matters.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: mu03eng on December 13, 2016, 11:52:24 AM
I'd say no to both.

Buzz for a lot of reasons, some of which aren't basketball related.

Crean is no because I think we are in better position where we don't really need his skill set. If Wojo can't coach(my only concern with him) Crean is not the answer to that question.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: mu03eng on December 13, 2016, 11:53:40 AM
Quote from: RJax55 on December 13, 2016, 11:43:13 AM
Crean, yes. Buzz, no.

I say no on Buzz because it became pretty apparent that both parties (Buzz & MU) had very different views on how the program should be run. Yes, things were good early on, but as time passed, those differences came to light. And, not surprisingly, since I really don't think either party truly knew and understood each other when the hire was made. Buzz was here what 9 months before getting the job. Anyway, not to rehash everything, but organizational fit matters.

In fairness to Buzz....some of the issue/fault was really on the administration at the time (LW, LP)
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: wadesworld on December 13, 2016, 11:54:58 AM
No.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Loose Cannon on December 13, 2016, 12:01:38 PM


NO
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Benny B on December 13, 2016, 12:04:06 PM
Why not just dig up Al and Rick while you're at it.  And if you think I'm being facetious, I never joke around about audioanimatronics.  Think of it as Country Bear Jamboree without the inbreeding.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: RJax55 on December 13, 2016, 12:04:21 PM
Quote from: mu03eng on December 13, 2016, 11:53:40 AM
In fairness to Buzz....some of the issue/fault was really on the administration at the time (LW, LP)

Absolutely, no doubt. There's much blame to go around why things didn't work and those two (LW, Fr. P) are at the top of the list.

But, at the same time, I don't feel that either MU or Buzz really understood what each other was about. And, no matter the administration, over time, it would have caused issues. I'm not surprised that even when Wild came back, fences weren't able to be mended. That's partly on Buzz and his general paranoid, which I have little doubt will cause him issues in the future.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GGGG on December 13, 2016, 12:30:29 PM
No. 

Going back to the ex is good for nostalgia and a night or two of good times, but it never really works out.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: warriorchick on December 13, 2016, 12:44:44 PM
I'm holding out for Tex Winter.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: brewcity77 on December 13, 2016, 12:50:26 PM
I'd take Crean back. I don't think we should discard Wojo for him because it'd be another rebuild, but if Wojo left, I'd take Crean. I wouldn't want Buzz back. Under any circumstances.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: naginiF on December 13, 2016, 01:00:31 PM
Quote from: DienerTime34 on December 13, 2016, 11:29:20 AM
If they offered to come back at the end of this year. Or do you think Wojo is on a path to do better than both?
Short answer = Never.  There is a reason one or both parties moved on.

But i gotta believe the real reason to start this is that this thread has got to be driving MUFiNY and Chico's crazy and you are either taunting them or baiting them into creating new user names to occupy the down time before conference games begin.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 13, 2016, 01:03:47 PM
Buzz= that crazy and hot ex you had a ton of fun with. Sure she's still hot and it's tempting to go back but you have to remember she was constantly "just talking" with other guys while her instagram seemed like she never took you seriously.

Cream= That ex you thought you could stay with forever and had honestly made you a better person. But then she started dieting and excersizing more and decided she could trade you in for someone better.

I wouldn't go back to either of those exs and thus wouldn't go back to either of those coaches.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: MarquetteDano on December 13, 2016, 01:17:27 PM
No and No.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on December 13, 2016, 01:19:00 PM
We're headed in the right direction.  RTP.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 13, 2016, 01:28:19 PM
I would take two coaches with equivalent resumes, experience, personality, and style provided they could work with our administration. But not Crean or Buzz specifically. Its not a good luck to go back to a coach who left for another job *cough* Depaul *cough*

But I wouldn't fire Wojo and take a new coach. That would set the rebuild back another few years. We are on the right track.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Marcus92 on December 13, 2016, 01:44:54 PM
In Tom Crean's mind, Indiana > Marquette.

In Buzz Williams' mind, Just About Anywhere Else > Marquette.

The question "Would you take Crean or Buzz back?" calls for accepting a concept even more outrageous than time travel. It requires the existence of an alternative reality  — one where Marquette is actually a more desirable head coaching job than Indiana (home to 5 national championships). Or where Buzz Williams puts things like basketball priority and resources first.

I reject the question. You might as well ask "Would you raise Al McGuire from the dead to rejoin Marquette as head coach of the basketball program?"
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: BlindboyPatSmith on December 13, 2016, 01:50:17 PM
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 13, 2016, 01:44:54 PM
In Tom Crean's mind, Indiana > Marquette.

In Buzz Williams' mind, Just About Anywhere Else > Marquette.

The question "Would you take Crean or Buzz back?" calls for accepting a concept even more outrageous than time travel. It requires the existence of an alternative reality  — one where Marquette is actually a more desirable head coaching job than Indiana (home to 5 national championships). Or where Buzz Williams puts things like basketball priority and resources first.

I reject the question. You might as well ask "Would you raise Al McGuire from the dead to rejoin Marquette as head coach of the basketball program?"

Can that be done???  As to the original question....ahhhhh NO !!!
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Badgerhater on December 13, 2016, 01:58:08 PM
How about Coach Tom Williams

--Recruits really good high school players like Wade, Diener, Novak and the Three Amigos while finding diamonds in the rough JUCOs like Jimmy Butler and Jae Crowder.
--Is able to have fun on court and add some swagger, but can smooze millions out of the alumni for important projects.
--Has great hoops and in-game coaching IQ but doesn't drink lots of sweet tea.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: T-Bone on December 13, 2016, 02:11:26 PM
Wainwright!
I think Jerry's great, but don't want him as a HC.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: dgies9156 on December 13, 2016, 02:20:26 PM
No

Life moves on. We can debate the circumstances of their departure all we want.

But once you are gone, you're toast.

Period.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: KampusFoods on December 13, 2016, 03:03:10 PM
Only DePaul takes their old coaches back
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Marcus92 on December 13, 2016, 03:07:26 PM
Quote from: RKMU123 on December 13, 2016, 03:03:10 PM
Only DePaul takes their old coaches back

Well done.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: tower912 on December 13, 2016, 03:45:02 PM
Crean, no.    Buzz, yes. 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: MUBigDance on December 13, 2016, 03:55:06 PM
Putting aside the ridiculous nature of the question...(and Scoop has seen worse).

I am a Buzz fan, I want him to succeed, etc...etc...

But Wojo will be fine!
Recruiting fine, Team ok, etc... etc...
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 13, 2016, 03:55:59 PM
Quote from: Badgerhater on December 13, 2016, 01:58:08 PM
How about Coach Tom Williams

I hope no-one photo-shops a picture of this gentleman.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: avid1010 on December 13, 2016, 03:59:06 PM
i liked buzz.  don't care for crean. 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2016, 03:59:24 PM
You're chittin' me, right? Dey both be dead, ai na?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 13, 2016, 04:14:46 PM
Crean, as he's won a title in both places he's been. Buzz has only won a title at one of the three places he's been.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Newsdreams on December 13, 2016, 05:43:36 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2016, 03:59:24 PM
You're chittin' me, right? Dey both be dead, ai na?
+100%
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 13, 2016, 07:03:06 PM
Steve Cottingham or Larry Williams?  Swipe left or right
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2016, 07:05:20 PM
Any y'all no weather Strong is still tossin' shekels at da program, hey?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: T-Bone on December 13, 2016, 07:11:47 PM
A face combo of the two kind of looks like Jeb!. Behold Buzz Crean.
(http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=52875.0;attach=6606;image)
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: brewcity77 on December 13, 2016, 07:30:21 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2016, 07:05:20 PM
Any y'all no weather Strong is still tossin' shekels at da program, hey?

Seems like the program has Kasten its fortunes in a different direction.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: connie on December 13, 2016, 07:33:23 PM
No (but I did think for a second about the Buzzard)
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 13, 2016, 08:23:38 PM
I really liked buzz and think he is a great coach and instills the toughness needed to win at a high level.

After 4-5 years i really began to develop a distaste for Crean.  His personailty started to make me really dislike him.  I dont think he is anywhere much above average as a coach.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Earl Tatum on December 13, 2016, 09:06:38 PM
Neither---Buzz left the cupboard bare when he left, Tan Tommy will
take Izzo's job when he retires. Both Scum-bags. I wanted one of the
Miller boys (Sean or Archie) before Buzz. We can also thank administration
for this mess. I still like Wojo but we should have had a more experienced
coach. I guess Ben Howland was mentioned.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 13, 2016, 09:12:07 PM
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on December 13, 2016, 08:23:38 PM
I really liked buzz and think he is a great coach and instills the toughness needed to win at a high level.

After 4-5 years i really began to develop a distaste for Crean.  His personailty started to make me really dislike him.  I dont think he is anywhere much above average as a coach.

My exact sentiments.

However, even though I really liked Buzz that ship has sailed. Don't think his return would be the answer for us or him.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: MU82 on December 13, 2016, 10:24:52 PM
Can't take either of them back.

We're no longer the Warriors, so we can't be Indian Givers.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GoldenWarrior11 on December 13, 2016, 11:15:37 PM
I loved both tenures from both coaches.  Both brought wonderful memories and strong success with deep runs in March.  The only place that both coaches belong with Marquette basketball is in its history.  Both coaches need to remain in the past. 

Our program is special and unique in that our program is not built on just one coach.  Al is undoubtedly our most successful coach, but Buzz, Crean, O'Neill, Majerus, Raymonds, et al., all brought Marquette to different levels and helped elevate it in different ways.

I am confident that Wojo, when he moves on (we all know he will not spend his career here), will add to that legacy.  We may not make the tournament this year, but the program is still being rebuilt and is trending upwards.  We have strong kids that will continue to develop and once Wojo has seen his first official class (not counting Cohen's year) get to be seniors, I think we will see a pretty competitive and tournament-worthy team. 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: dgies9156 on December 14, 2016, 12:04:20 AM
Quote from: GoldenWarrior11 on December 13, 2016, 11:15:37 PM
(we all know he will not spend his career here)

We do?

I don't. If he's good and builds a legacy that makes us an elite team, he'll stay. Why would you live in the Raleigh Durham area when you can live in Milwaukee?

Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: 77ncaachamps on December 14, 2016, 02:13:54 AM
BUZZ > CREAN
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Eye on December 14, 2016, 07:47:35 AM
Gotta be honest, I'd try Brent again. No on Crean.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: wildbillsb on December 14, 2016, 08:02:12 AM
Quote from: MU82 on December 13, 2016, 10:24:52 PM
Can't take either of them back.

We're no longer the Warriors, so we can't be Indian Givers.



+100!
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: WarriorFan on December 14, 2016, 08:20:16 AM
I like the fact that MU has a history of quirky / different / unique coaches.  Al and rick were great examples.

Crean was also different but in a greasy slimy check your watch after the handshake sort of way.
Brent was very different but in a "gonna go down in flames Lamar Odom style" sort of way.

Wojo just isn't different enough.

The guy I wouldn't mind coming back if he ever got serious again about coaching is KO.  I thought he really brought some life into the program.  Definitely different.  Apparently a bit of an a$$ but pretty cool every time I met him... and back in the day he could really recruit too.  Good game coach too. 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Loose Cannon on December 14, 2016, 08:21:15 AM
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 14, 2016, 12:04:20 AM
We do?

I don't. If he's good and builds a legacy that makes us an elite team, he'll stay. Why would you live in the Raleigh Durham area when you can live in Milwaukee?

PLUS TAX
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: TallTitan34 on December 14, 2016, 08:37:59 AM
When Buzz left I would have been fine with Crean returning.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Benny B on December 14, 2016, 09:58:04 AM
Quote from: dgies9156 on December 14, 2016, 12:04:20 AM
Why would you live in the Raleigh Durham area when you can live in Milwaukee?

No shiite.  Just ask 82 how horrible it is to live in the Carolinas.  Milwaukee has NC beat everywhere:

Common cold > Zika
Occasional blizzard > Occasional hurricane
Progressive racists > Traditional racists
Brandy > Southern Comfort
Door County > Asheville
Illinois > South Carolina
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: MU82 on December 15, 2016, 11:22:24 PM
Quote from: Benny B on December 14, 2016, 09:58:04 AM
No shiite.  Just ask 82 how horrible it is to live in the Carolinas.  Milwaukee has NC beat everywhere:

Common cold > Zika
Occasional blizzard > Occasional hurricane
Progressive racists > Traditional racists
Brandy > Southern Comfort
Door County > Asheville
Illinois > South Carolina

Leon's Frozen Custard > TCBY franchises.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: forgetful on December 16, 2016, 02:08:10 AM
Quote from: WarriorFan on December 14, 2016, 08:20:16 AM
I like the fact that MU has a history of quirky / different / unique coaches.  Al and rick were great examples.

Crean was also different but in a greasy slimy check your watch after the handshake sort of way.
Brent was very different but in a "gonna go down in flames Lamar Odom style" sort of way.

Wojo just isn't different enough.

The guy I wouldn't mind coming back if he ever got serious again about coaching is KO.  I thought he really brought some life into the program.  Definitely different.  Apparently a bit of an a$$ but pretty cool every time I met him... and back in the day he could really recruit too.  Good game coach too.

I know it is impossible, but I would love to see KO come back as a Wojo assistant to solely focus on defense.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: willie warrior on December 16, 2016, 05:20:32 AM
Crean-maybe
Buzz--only as stable boy to clean up his manure.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Marcus92 on December 16, 2016, 09:25:34 AM
Quote from: forgetful on December 16, 2016, 02:08:10 AMI know it is impossible, but I would love to see KO come back as a Wojo assistant to solely focus on defense.

Impossible or not, it's a fascinating idea. Defense was O'Neill's strong suit — and the team that beat Kentucky to advance to the Sweet 16 might have been the best defensive group he ever coached in his career. They had a great on-ball defender in Tony Miller, strong rebounding and one of the best rim protectors of all time in Jim McIlvane.

O'Neill could probably give Wojo some tips on creative swearing, or how to preserve your voice during the season. They might even get into a fistfight at some point.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: muwarrior69 on December 16, 2016, 09:49:22 AM
Neither, I want Shaka back. Wasn't he our coach for maybe 5 seconds, #donedeal?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: keefe on December 16, 2016, 10:00:33 AM
Quote from: Marcus92 on December 16, 2016, 09:25:34 AM
Impossible or not, it's a fascinating idea. Defense was O'Neill's strong suit — and the team that beat Kentucky to advance to the Sweet 16 might have been the best defensive group he ever coached in his career. They had a great on-ball defender in Tony Miller, strong rebounding and one of the best rim protectors of all time in Jim McIlvane.

O'Neill could probably give Wojo some tips on creative swearing, or how to preserve your voice during the season. They might even get into a fistfight at some point.

KO also craved the fairer sex in ways that put the Capital P in Philanderer. Wojo doesn't seem to have the whole cheating on one's spouse thing down at all.

Marquette seemed to be the landing place for men with purient hungers and salacious appetites. KO and The Deaner were seething with vital hormonal secretions. Where do we get such men?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Goose on December 16, 2016, 10:02:30 AM
Keefe

You are the best!!
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: mikekinsellaMVP on December 16, 2016, 10:14:43 AM
Quote from: keefe on December 16, 2016, 10:00:33 AM
KO also craved the fairer sex in ways that put the Capital P in Philanderer. Wojo doesn't seem to have the whole cheating on one's spouse thing down at all.

Marquette seemed to be the landing place for men with purient hungers and salacious appetites. KO and The Deaner were seething with vital hormonal secretions. Where do we get such men?

I was in denial, but this confirmed it.

The rodents really have surpassed us as a program.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: mayfairskatingrink on December 16, 2016, 05:43:49 PM
Just from a basketball perspective, I would take either one of them over Wojo.

Wojo cannot coach defense.  No reason to believe he's all of a sudden going to be able to get across the X's and O's unless he gets a veteran assistant.

The attitude on campus to the bball program is complete indifference.  Another dead season next year and a change needs to be made.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: muhoops1 on December 16, 2016, 09:19:55 PM
They both left...byeeeeeeee.  This is a very sad poll.  Low self esteem population MU.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Small Orange Soda on December 17, 2016, 02:27:44 AM
I guess it depends on whether one of them is going to get us back to the NCAA tournament.  If Wojo isn't, then sure, I guess?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: NCMUFan on December 17, 2016, 07:14:43 AM
Why not bring Al back?  Somewhere we kept that DNA sample.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dr. Blackheart on December 17, 2016, 08:08:49 AM
A coach's shelf life is limited.  Dikta said once that it is about nine years in the NFL.  I think Crean went one year too long, and Buzz hit that limit early due to his personality.  Both tried to play the scare game to secure further gives.

KO cracked me up as he wanted to come back a couple of times, after bolting here. Don't think that would have played out well.

Wojo is the right fit for this administration internally. Has recruited relatively well.  He is not the public salesman as he is too much the straight shooter.  Does he need to be?  Scholl seems to know how to bring in the money.  He has to prove it on the court and in the practice gym where he is struggling to learn on the job. If he makes the NCAAs this year, he will be golden for a long while.  If he has success and bolts after this up and down rebuild, he will be dead to Scoop.  If he struggles, maybe there is a piano bar that has an opening. 

That nine year horizon may be longer for college hoops with continuity of success.  But it is about right.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: brewcity77 on December 17, 2016, 08:35:13 AM
I think college hoops is different. Because you completely turn over your players every 4-5 years, the message doesn't become as stale. You can look at the mid-major level, guys like Rick Byrd, Greg Kampe, and Bob McKillop, who've been at it almost as long as K and Boeheim. But even at the high-major level, you've got Tom Izzo, Jay Wright, Mike Brey, Lorenzo Romar, Leonard Hamilton, and Scott Drew as examples of the possibility of modern day tenure. Had we landed Iman Shumpert, Crean might still be here.

I know it's not common, but I think it's easier to have longevity in college than in the pros.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: keefe on December 17, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
The opening question in a Tanned Tommy return interview would have to be, "Where's that f#cking check for the soccer team, you a$$hole??"
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2016, 10:35:58 AM
maybe someone has alluded to this, but 1 of the 2 dudes we speak of here is quietly 9-1,  ahem ahem, hmmmm.  includes a 20 point beat down of new mexico and a road win over michigan.  i like wojo, but just sayin.  blacksburg must not be too tough a place to sell, eyn'er hey?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: HoopsterBC on December 18, 2016, 10:53:17 AM
Quote from: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2016, 10:35:58 AM
maybe someone has alluded to this, but 1 of the 2 dudes we speak of here is quietly 9-1,  ahem ahem, hmmmm.  includes a 20 point beat down of new mexico and a road win over michigan.  i like wojo, but just sayin.  blacksburg must not be too tough a place to sell, eyn'er hey?

Beautiful area, not like MU, hard to compare.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2016, 11:06:17 AM
Quote from: HoopsterBC on December 18, 2016, 10:53:17 AM
Beautiful area, not like MU, hard to compare.

absolutely a beautiful region, but one of the "cons" of recruiting to blacksburg was that it's not an easy place to get to like a duke, chapel hill, miami or florida state, not to mention a football heavy school.  now if they were to take a page out of the rick pitino book on recruiting 101... ;D
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 18, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
Just gunna leave this here. Buzz beat Michigan at Michigan this year. Hes 9-1. Marquette got slaughtered by Michigan at a neutral. Both teams did complete rebuilds, maybe its time to stop the rebuild excuse train?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Billy Hoyle on December 18, 2016, 12:03:34 PM
Quote from: keefe on December 17, 2016, 12:55:35 PM
The opening question in a Tanned Tommy return interview would have to be, "Where's that f#cking check for the soccer team, you a$$hole??"

Does your wife yell Crean's name instead of yours during sex? You have issues, dude.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 18, 2016, 12:54:06 PM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 18, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
Just gunna leave this here. Buzz beat Michigan at Michigan this year. Hes 9-1. Marquette got slaughtered by Michigan at a neutral. Both teams did complete rebuilds, maybe its time to stop the rebuild excuse train?

Cool. Buzz is doing very well at VT. Congrats to him. Him turning around VT is the exception not the rule. For every Buzz Williiams at VT I can find you 5 Wojos at MU.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: #UnleashSean on December 18, 2016, 12:57:20 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 18, 2016, 12:54:06 PM
Cool. Buzz is doing very well at VT. Congrats to him. Him turning around VT is the exception not the rule. For every Buzz Williiams at VT I can find you 5 Wojos at MU.

yes? But the question is would we take back Buzz. Not 5 wojos.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 18, 2016, 12:54:06 PM
Cool. Buzz is doing very well at VT. Congrats to him. Him turning around VT is the exception not the rule. For every Buzz Williiams at VT I can find you 5 Wojos at MU.

Not to mention Bert got to keep the kids he wanted from VT's recruiting class and bring the kids he wanted along with him from MU's recruiting class. Bert took over a program where the former coach was no longer employed as a D1 head basketball coach and had been recruiting for himself. Wojo took over a program that the former coach was going elsewhere to coach and Wojo had been recruiting for Coach K.

So Bert damn well better be further along in his rebuild.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Nukem2 on December 18, 2016, 01:04:08 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
Not to mention Bert got to keep the kids he wanted from VT's recruiting class and bring the kids he wanted along with him from MU's recruiting class. Bert took over a program where the former coach was no longer employed as a D1 head basketball coach and had been recruiting for himself. Wojo took over a program that the former coach was going elsewhere to coach and Wojo had been recruiting for Coach K.

So Bert damn well better be further along in his rebuild.
Transfers Zach LeDay and Seth Allen also helped a lot. But, they will be gone next year.  We shall see.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GGGG on December 18, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 18, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
Just gunna leave this here. Buzz beat Michigan at Michigan this year. Hes 9-1. Marquette got slaughtered by Michigan at a neutral. Both teams did complete rebuilds, maybe its time to stop the rebuild excuse train?

Or maybe Buzz is just a better coach.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: jesmu84 on December 18, 2016, 01:44:09 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
Not to mention Bert got to keep the kids he wanted from VT's recruiting class and bring the kids he wanted along with him from MU's recruiting class. Bert took over a program where the former coach was no longer employed as a D1 head basketball coach and had been recruiting for himself. Wojo took over a program that the former coach was going elsewhere to coach and Wojo had been recruiting for Coach K.

So Bert damn well better be further along in his rebuild.

Whoops, in someone's blind Wojo hate, they forgot context and variables.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Golden Avalanche on December 18, 2016, 02:52:07 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 01:01:18 PM
Not to mention Bert got to keep the kids he wanted from VT's recruiting class and bring the kids he wanted along with him from MU's recruiting class. Bert took over a program where the former coach was no longer employed as a D1 head basketball coach and had been recruiting for himself. Wojo took over a program that the former coach was going elsewhere to coach and Wojo had been recruiting for Coach K.

So Bert damn well better be further along in his rebuild.

If we're doing "not to mention" it should be noted that Buzz tampered with two programs to get his two best players. That helps speed up the process.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 18, 2016, 03:44:23 PM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 18, 2016, 11:15:07 AM
Just gunna leave this here. Buzz beat Michigan at Michigan this year. Hes 9-1. Marquette got slaughtered by Michigan at a neutral. Both teams did complete rebuilds, maybe its time to stop the rebuild excuse train?

This
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Lennys Tap on December 18, 2016, 03:44:58 PM
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 18, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
Or maybe Buzz is just a better coach.

And this
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: tower912 on December 18, 2016, 03:52:06 PM
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 18, 2016, 01:16:11 PM
Or maybe Buzz is just a better coach.

He is at the moment.  Wojo can still improve.   Buzz is probably at his peak
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: leever on December 18, 2016, 04:03:31 PM
I don't know if Buzz is the better coach.  I think Buzz is better at cheating, I mean, stretching the rules.  I also think he's at a place that is 100% behind cheating, I mean stretching the rules, as long as you win.  Apparently, Marquette was not that place.  VT is not messing with happy, eh?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2016, 04:24:30 PM
Quote from: leever on December 18, 2016, 04:03:31 PM
I don't know if Buzz is the better coach.  I think Buzz is better at cheating, I mean, stretching the rules.  I also think he's at a place that is 100% behind cheating, I mean stretching the rules, as long as you win.  Apparently, Marquette was not that place.  VT is not messing with happy, eh?

"cheating/stretching the rules"  just wondering what you know that the ncaa doesn't? 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: tower912 on December 18, 2016, 04:25:24 PM
Buzz wasn't a cheater. The actual violations during his 6 years were of the mouse nuts variety.  A t-shirt and a ride to the airport?   Please.     Exploited some loopholes (DJO), handled the Newbill situation and alleged sexual assaults poorly, didn't cheat. 


Unless, of course, you were let in on CBB's super secret other shoe that has yet to drop.   
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: brewcity77 on December 18, 2016, 05:53:59 PM
Quote from: tower912 on December 18, 2016, 04:25:24 PMBuzz wasn't a cheater. The actual violations during his 6 years were of the mouse nuts variety.  A t-shirt and a ride to the airport?   Please.     Exploited some loopholes (DJO), handled the Newbill situation and alleged sexual assaults poorly, didn't cheat.

+1

Buzz had plenty of chances to cheat. He handled some things terribly, had a few minor incidents, but wasn't a guy who was running wild with wanton disregard for the rules.

My favorite instance was when Michigan State fans were livid, attacking Marquette because they heard there was a price tag on Branden Dawsen and Marquette had bought his recruitment. Buzz was the dirtiest guy on the block and everyone was piling on.

Then he committed to MSU and they all shut up about that cheating bit real quick. FWIW, I've heard they were right about the price tag thing all along, but they were wrong about who was paying it.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 05:54:59 PM
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 18, 2016, 05:53:59 PM
+1

Buzz had plenty of chances to cheat. He handled some things terribly, had a few minor incidents, but wasn't a guy who was running wild with wanton disregard for the rules.

My favorite instance was when Michigan State fans were livid, attacking Marquette because they heard there was a price tag on Branden Dawsen and Marquette had bought his recruitment. Buzz was the dirtiest guy on the block and everyone was piling on.

Then he committed to MSU and they all shut up about that cheating bit real quick. FWIW, I've heard they were right about the price tag thing all along, but they were wrong about who was paying it.

He would've if he could've.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: brewcity77 on December 18, 2016, 06:04:54 PM
Quote from: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 05:54:59 PM
He would've if he could've.

I disagree. Buzz might be weird, secretive, and awkward, but I don't think he's a cheater or means to be malicious. He has his own code that he lives by. Maybe not landing certain recruits at Marquette because he couldn't...ahem...invest properly in their future will change his ways of doing things, but looking at his recruiting at Virginia Tech, I don't think that's the case.

Buzz is still going after the same four-star kids he always was. Dude has put plenty of guys in the NBA, has a marquee conference banner to fly, and a pedigree of success. If he had some unlimited budget at Va Tech, he would have landed a McDonald's kid in his first class or two.

I fully understand why people don't like him, and there are aspects of his personality and nature that I don't like (I wouldn't want him back here under any circumstance) but I feel pretty confident he didn't cheat there and doesn't feel a need to cheat there.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: tower912 on December 18, 2016, 06:41:24 PM
If he would have been willing to cheat, he would have paid for Dawson, paid off Mbakwe (per the other board), put up with Tim Maymon, kept Hazel around, continued to pursue Clarke, etc.     Weird, intense, always looking for an advantage, more than willing to exploit his encyclopedic contacts within the JUCO community..... doesn't equal cheating. 
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: keefe on December 18, 2016, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on December 18, 2016, 12:03:34 PM
Does your wife yell Crean's name instead of yours during sex? You have issues, dude.

My wife passed away from cancer you a$$hole. Go f#ck yourself.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: wadesworld on December 18, 2016, 06:45:28 PM
I've heard many things that lead me to believe that if he was allowed to continue down the path he was trying to head at MU he wouldn't have stopped short of anything to help him win.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on December 18, 2016, 07:26:49 PM
Quote from: #UnleashWally on December 18, 2016, 12:57:20 PM
yes? But the question is would we take back Buzz. Not 5 wojos.

But the statement you were making was that we are making excuses for Wojo. Not answering the original question.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 18, 2016, 07:40:22 PM
Quote from: Earl Tatum on December 13, 2016, 09:06:38 PM
Neither---Buzz left the cupboard bare when he left, Tan Tommy will
take Izzo's job when he retires. Both Scum-bags. I wanted one of the
Miller boys (Sean or Archie) before Buzz. We can also thank administration
for this mess. I still like Wojo but we should have had a more experienced
coach. I guess Ben Howland was mentioned.

I think that when Buzz left the idea was to get a coach who'd take control of the program, not run it on autopilot.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 18, 2016, 07:45:49 PM
Quote from: MU82 on December 15, 2016, 11:22:24 PM
Leon's Frozen Custard > TCBY franchises.

But yogurt franchises are what made Ners....  oh, I get your point.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Dawson Rental on December 18, 2016, 07:46:44 PM
Quote from: forgetful on December 16, 2016, 02:08:10 AM
I know it is impossible, but I would love to see KO come back as a Wojo assistant to solely focus on defense.

KO as second fiddle to Wojo   Ha ha ha.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: rocket surgeon on December 18, 2016, 07:52:43 PM
Quote from: keefe on December 18, 2016, 06:44:40 PM
My wife passed away from cancer you a$$hole. Go f#ck yourself.

wow keefer, i didn't know that-so so sorry to hear.  i've been blessed not to have experienced death within my immediate family...yet.  God knows that's going to be a real basterd for me to deal with, but peace be upon you
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 19, 2016, 08:40:11 AM
Quote from: tower912 on December 18, 2016, 04:25:24 PM
Buzz wasn't a cheater. The actual violations during his 6 years were of the mouse nuts variety.  A t-shirt and a ride to the airport?   Please.     Exploited some loopholes (DJO), handled the Newbill situation and alleged sexual assaults poorly, didn't cheat. 


Unless, of course, you were let in on CBB's super secret other shoe that has yet to drop.

What DJO loophole was there?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GGGG on December 19, 2016, 08:48:13 AM
I'm not sure it was a "loophole," but there was an NCAA clearinghouse issue of some sort.  Usually that means the NCAA didn't think one of his classes met the qualifications for the 16 core course requirement.  I think he spent a year at a prep school before going Juco so maybe that was part of the problem?

Anyways, Jae was more of an issue because he had no chance to graduate in two years.  Many two year Jucos have that issue.  (Dwight Buycks I believe has finally done so.)  DJO and JFB both graduated.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Galway Eagle on December 19, 2016, 08:50:32 AM
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 19, 2016, 08:48:13 AM
I'm not sure it was a "loophole," but there was an NCAA clearinghouse issue of some sort.  Usually that means the NCAA didn't think one of his classes met the qualifications for the 16 core course requirement.  I think he spent a year at a prep school before going Juco so maybe that was part of the problem?

Anyways, Jae was more of an issue because he had no chance to graduate in two years.  Many two year Jucos have that issue.  (Dwight Buycks I believe has finally done so.)  DJO and JFB both graduated.

Out of curiousity if Jae had redshirted his first year here would that have still been an issue? could the NCAA close that loophole with a mandatory red shirt?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 19, 2016, 08:55:29 AM
Quote from: Dr. Vinnie Boombatz on December 19, 2016, 08:48:13 AM
Anyways, Jae was more of an issue because he had no chance to graduate in two years.  Many two year Jucos have that issue.  (Dwight Buycks I believe has finally done so.)  DJO and JFB both graduated.

Is this a NCAA rule or a Marquette preference (must have a 'chance' to graduate in the number of years left in eligibility). 

Additionally does anyone know if this applied to grad transfers as well?  Do they also have to be able to complete their grad degree in the one year of basketball eligibility?
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GGGG on December 19, 2016, 08:57:28 AM
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 19, 2016, 08:50:32 AM
Out of curiousity if Jae had redshirted his first year here would that have still been an issue? could the NCAA close that loophole with a mandatory red shirt?


Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on December 19, 2016, 08:55:29 AM
Is this a NCAA rule or a Marquette preference (must have a 'chance' to graduate in the number of years left in eligibility). 



Marquette preference.  It is an issue that is particularly difficult for MU.  As I have been told, many Jucos major in Phy Ed.  Since MU doesn't offer that major, it is difficult to get credits to transfer.  In three years, a player can largely make it up.  In two years it is very hard.
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: GOO on December 19, 2016, 10:57:56 AM
Crean = I've done all I can at MU.  MU is holding me back.  Therefore, I don't want him back.  He saw limits and set limits on himself. Very inconsistent recruiter.

Buzz= Great coach. Again, great coach.   Good recruiter for what he wanted, knew the type of player he wanted.. athletic, work hard, basketball skills secondary concern.   But, a guy that doesn't get that the basketball team is part of a University... not an entity unto itself.  A guy that is a nightmare to work with and keeps everyone dancing and guessing.  Not a fit for MU. Too bad, but just the way it is. Needed a better balance and understanding that the team is part of a University with academic standards.  His last teams with an inability to shoot were the most difficult teams to watch I've seen at MU.  Even during darker times, at least we had some skilled players (e.g. Tony Smith, Trevor Powell, etc).

The current team has height and defensive limitations, but shows us where Wojo gernally wants to go... up tempo, shooters...ball players... skilled.  We'll have a good idea of where this team is at on January 14th after the first 5 or so BE games.   
Title: Re: Would you take Crean or Buzz back?
Post by: tower912 on December 19, 2016, 11:12:11 AM
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on December 19, 2016, 08:40:11 AM
What DJO loophole was there?

He became eligible sooner than the big boys were expecting, but Buzz seemed to know it was coming and swooped in and signed him before anyone else really had a chance.    IIRC.
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