MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Windyplayer on November 15, 2016, 10:20:09 AM
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Vandy in action against Belmont tonight after the throttling. Looks like Belmont's first game (#103 per KenPom).
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True cupcakes are 4-10
Good non-con teams are 8-2 (including both Pitt and SMU until we figure that out)
Through this morning.
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True cupcakes are 4-10
Good non-con teams are 8-2 (including both Pitt and SMU until we figure that out)
Through this morning.
So the implication there is that even our good non-con opponents will be like cupcakes to us.
(http://www.awaken.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/r-HOW-TO-BE-OPTIMISTIC-large570.gif)
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Fresno State lost to Prairie View A&M. Our quality buy game looks a little less quality.
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Dayton just won a true road game, that should help us :)
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Alas, Vandy lost to Bucknell on Monday night at home.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821 (http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821)
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Alas, Vandy lost to Bucknell on Monday night at home.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821 (http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821)
Fresno lost to CSU Bakersfieid...so I don't think they are very good. Michigan obviously is performing well. Howard will probably turn it around once they get their best player back. IUPUI will be solid.
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Alas, Vandy lost to Bucknell on Monday night at home.
http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821 (http://www.espn.com/ncb/recap/_/gameId/400910821)
And Bucknell lost by 20 to Wake Forest and by 26 to Butler. Looks like Vandy is a glorified cupcake.
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Vanderbilt: 2-2 (W: Belmont, Norfolk State) (L: Marquette*, Bucknell)
Howard: 0-4 (W: Nada) (L: @Michigan, @Marquette, @IUPUI, Gardner Webb)
Michigan: 4-0 (W: Howard, IUPUI, Marquette, SMU) (L: Nada)
Pittsburgh: 4-1 (W: Eastern Michigan, Gardner-Webb, Marquette, Yale) (L: SMU)
IUPUI: 2-3 (W: Howard, Eastern Michigan) (L: @Eastern Kentucky, @Michigan, @Marquette)
Houston Baptist: 2-2 (W: 2 Non-D1 Opponents) (L: @Texas Tech, @New Mexico)
Western Carolina: 1-4 (W: Non-D1 Opponent) (L: @Miami, North Carolina Central, @Marshall, @Ohio State)
Georgia: 3-2 (W: UNC-Asheville, Furman, George Washington) (L: @Clemson, Kansas*)
Fresno State: 2-2 (W: UTSA, Lamar) (L: Prairie View A&M, @Cal State Bakersfield)
Wisconsin: 4-1 (W: Central Arkansas, Chicago State, Tennessee, Georgetown) (L: @Creighton)
St Francis (PA): 1-2 (W: Non D1 opponent) (L: @St. Bonaventure's, @ Duquesne)
SIU-Edwardsville: 2-3 (W: @Hawaii, Florida Atlantic) (L: Texas State, SIU, @Arkansas State)
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Personally, I am rooting for Pitt to win the ACC.
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1 week later:
Vanderbilt: 3-3 (W: Belmont, Norfolk State, Santa Clara) (L: Marquette, Bucknell, Butler)
Howard: 0-5 (W: Nada) (L: @Michigan, @Marquette, @IUPUI, Gardner Webb, Georgetown)
Michigan: 5-1 (W: Howard, IUPUI, Marquette, SMU, Mount St. Mary's) (L: @South Carolina)
Pittsburgh: 5-1 (W: Eastern Michigan, Gardner-Webb, Marquette, Yale, Morehead State) (L: SMU)
IUPUI: 2-4 (W: Howard, Eastern Michigan) (L: @Eastern Kentucky, @Michigan, @Marquette, @SIU-E)
Houston Baptist: 2-3 (W: 2 Non-D1 Opponents) (L: @Texas Tech, @New Mexico, @Marquette)
Western Carolina: 2-4 (W: Non-D1 Opponent, Jackson State) (L: @Miami, North Carolina Central, @Marshall, @Ohio State)
Georgia: 4-2 (W: UNC-Asheville, Furman, George Washington, Gardner Webb) (L: @Clemson, Kansas)
Fresno State: 3-2 (W: UTSA, Lamar, @Oregon State) (L: Prairie View A&M, @Cal State Bakersfield)
Wisconsin: 5-2 (W: Central Arkansas, Chicago State, Tennessee, Georgetown, Prairie View A&M) (L: @Creighton, North Carolina)
St Francis (PA): 1-2 (W: Non D1 opponent) (L: @St. Bonaventure's, @ Duquesne)
SIU-Edwardsville: 4-3 (W: @Hawaii, Florida Atlantic, IUPUI, @Grand Canyon) (L: Texas State, SIU, @Arkansas State)
Most surprising team so far has definitely been SIU-Edwardsville. Would never have expected them to have two road wins and a win over IUPUI.
Fresno State got a road win at Oregon State. Just goes to show that they are not a team that can be taken lightly. They have the potential to go into a high major gym and steal one.
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Jon Harris coaches at SIUE for those who may have forgotten.
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Vanderbilt
Record: 4-4
Wins: Belmont, Norfolk State, Santa Clara, Tennessee State
Losses: Marquette, Bucknell, Butler, Minnesota
Howard:
Record: 1-5
Wins: American
Losses: @Michigan, @Marquette, @IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, @Georgetown
Michigan:
Record: 6-2
Wins: Howard, IUPUI, Marquette, SMU, Mount St. Mary's, Kennesaw State
Losses: @South Carolina, Virginia Tech
Pittsburgh:
Record: 6-2
Wins: Eastern Michigan, Gardner-Webb, Marquette, Yale, Morehead State, @Maryland
Losses: SMU, Duquesne
IUPUI:
Record: 3-5
Wins: Howard, Eastern Michigan, @Ball State
Losses: @Eastern Kentucky, @Michigan, @Marquette, @SIUE, @Illinois State
Houston Baptist:
Record: 0-4
Wins: 2 non-D1 Opponents
Losses: @Texas Tech, @New Mexico, @Marquette, @Rice
Western Carolina:
Record: 2-5
Wins: 1 non-D1 Opponent, @Jackson State, @Appalachian State
Losses: @Miami (FL), North Carolina Central, @Marshall, @Ohio State, @Marquette
Georgia:
Record: 4-3
Wins: UNC-Asheville, George Washington, Gardner-Web, 1 non-D1 opponent
Losses: @Clemson, Kansas, Marquette
Fresno State:
Record: 4-2
Wins: UTSA, Lamar, @Oregon State, 1 non-D1 opponent, @Drake
Losses: Prairie View A&M, @Cal State Bakersfield
Wisconsin:
Record: 7-2
Wins: Central Arkansas, Chicago State, Tennessee, Georgetown, Prairie View A&M, Syracuse, Oklahoma
Losses: @Creighton, North Carolina
St. Francis (PA):
Record: 2-4
Wins: 1 non-D1 opponent, Longwood, @American
Losses: @St. Bonaventure, @Duquesne, @NJIT, Binghamton
SIU Edwardsville:
Record: 4-4
Wins: @Hawaii, Florida Atlantic, IUPUI, @Grand Canyon
Losses: Texas State, Southern Illinois, @Arkansas State, @Indiana
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Thanks for the update...nice to see it all in one place.
But it's turning out to be a downer schedule. Can't afford to lose to any of the teams except the two we lost to and UW. Even Vandy and Ga are uninspiring when you look at it.
It's all about not losing to way inferior teams and the Conference now.
Beating UW would put some pep in it.
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Thanks for the update...nice to see it all in one place.
But it's turning out to be a downer schedule. Can't afford to lose to any of the teams except the two we lost to and UW. Even Vandy and Ga are uninspiring when you look at it.
It's all about not losing to way inferior teams and the Conference now.
Beating UW would put some pep in it.
It's really not that bad though, because most of these teams should win games in their league and boost their RPI. RPIForecast.com currently projects that we will have no 300+ RPI teams on the schedule. St. Francis PA is projected as the worst at 277.
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Thanks for the update...nice to see it all in one place.
But it's turning out to be a downer schedule. Can't afford to lose to any of the teams except the two we lost to and UW. Even Vandy and Ga are uninspiring when you look at it.
It's all about not losing to way inferior teams and the Conference now.
Beating UW would put some pep in it.
It's really not bad.
And while I don't think georgia is that good idk how you can call them a downer so far
At Clemson and neutral to top 10(or better) Kansas?
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It's really not bad.
And while I don't think georgia is that good idk how you can call them a downer so far
At Clemson and neutral to top 10(or better) Kansas?
you are right, we need to let it shake out...maybe a couple of them will surprise in conference. I've already bumped Vandy and Georgia out of the Tourney in my mind....but who knows. I just don't want to get to the end of the season and do the RPI shuffle again.
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We have the worst SOS in the Big East. Our losses aren't bad, but our wins certainly aren't a good resume builder.
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We have the worst SOS in the Big East. Our losses aren't bad, but our wins certainly aren't a good resume builder.
Are you looking at RPI? It's especially useless this early in the season, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
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Are you looking at RPI? It's especially useless this early in the season, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
(http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/14/1461858669e599d35585c1be8ae799e2575f1fc09563bb6501f68e27fe7d3356.jpg)
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Are you looking at RPI? It's especially useless this early in the season, so I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Right....but watching how our SOS is panning out is worth the concern. We're in a good place 2-2 against bigger conference teams going into UW with the rest wins......But only if they all stay decent. Will our 50-99s turn into 100s? 100s turn into 200s? And (please no) our 200s turn into 300s?
At the end of the season, RPI will matter.
And like any of the stuff we fans have no control over, it's fun to follow and figure... :)
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I still believe it is who you beat that matters. Home games against teams 150+ are expected to be wins and only matter if they turn into bad losses. Generally, all road wins are good wins. That is why I argued our non conference schedule was not strong. It is tougher than last year, but I do not believe replacing 300+ teams with 200+ teams in the end makes a difference when the committee is reviewing your resume with an emphasis on your top 50 record. A loss against a top 50 team can be more favorable than a win against a 200+ team. We have Vandy, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia, Fresno St. and UW and they are not likely to be all top 50 teams. That does not compare favorably to UW playing Creighton, Georgetown, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Syracuse and at MU. The Big East schedule is a tough schedule, but we have no control over that.Wisconsin would be a top 50 win and we really need one of those at this point.
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MTSU 71, Vandy 48.
The Headline in the Nashville paper was 'Mighty MTSU crushes cowering Vanderbilt".
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I still believe it is who you beat that matters. Home games against teams 150+ are expected to be wins and only matter if they turn into bad losses. Generally, all road wins are good wins. That is why I argued our non conference schedule was not strong. It is tougher than last year, but I do not believe replacing 300+ teams with 200+ teams in the end makes a difference when the committee is reviewing your resume with an emphasis on your top 50 record.
You keep saying this despite the fact that everyone keeps pointing out you are wrong. Playing 200+ teams OOC most certainly makes your resume better than 300+ teams. And everyone plays these teams. Your ideas about how the committee selects teams are about 30 years out of date right now.
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You keep saying this despite the fact that everyone keeps pointing out you are wrong. Playing 200+ teams OOC most certainly makes your resume better than 300+ teams. And everyone plays these teams. Your ideas about how the committee selects teams are about 30 years out of date right now.
I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.
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You keep saying this despite the fact that everyone keeps pointing out you are wrong. Playing 200+ teams OOC most certainly makes your resume better than 300+ teams. And everyone plays these teams. Your ideas about how the committee selects teams are about 30 years out of date right now.
Wisconsin plays as many cupcakes, but their top 5 is much tougher. The schedule only matters, if you are in the group battling for the last few spots. It is kind of like free throws do matter, unless you are in a close game. What you, I or anyone else cannot determine at this point is who will be the final teams that are competing against each other for the last spot. MU with this year's schedule would beat out MU with last year's schedule, but of course that cannot happen. Most likely, if we are in the last in/last out group we will be competing against teams in the power conferences and our strength of schedule is not likely to be significantly better than those teams, so it will come down to games against the top 50 and the so called eye test. Looking good late in the season in a top 50 loss can matter. One of MU's problems last year is they got stomped on by Villanova and Seton Hall and could not pass the eye test. Again this only matters for the final few spots. Late in the season you will see whose in whose out comparisons during halftimes of games where they compare resume's of unnamed teams and these rely heavily on the teams records against top 50 and top 100 teams along with number of bad losses. I cannot say this is actually what the selection committee relies on, but it is a good indicator.
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I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.
I think the point is the quality of cupcake, not whether we schedule them. A 200+ team is definitely better for our RPI at the end of a season than a 300+ team. I am of the opinion the RPI should be adjusted to eliminate from the calculation the bottom 3-5 wins in terms of RPI ranking. Whether you beat a 200+ or 300+ team has no indication of whether you are a good team.
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I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.
Where are the Mods when we need them? How can Common sense posting be Permitted.
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Wisconsin plays as many cupcakes, but their top 5 is much tougher. The schedule only matters, if you are in the group battling for the last few spots. It is kind of like free throws do matter, unless you are in a close game. What you, I or anyone else cannot determine at this point is who will be the final teams that are competing against each other for the last spot. MU with this year's schedule would beat out MU with last year's schedule, but of course that cannot happen. Most likely, if we are in the last in/last out group we will be competing against teams in the power conferences and our strength of schedule is not likely to be significantly better than those teams, so it will come down to games against the top 50 and the so called eye test. Looking good late in the season in a top 50 loss can matter. One of MU's problems last year is they got stomped on by Villanova and Seton Hall and could not pass the eye test. Again this only matters for the final few spots. Late in the season you will see whose in whose out comparisons during halftimes of games where they compare resume's of unnamed teams and these rely heavily on the teams records against top 50 and top 100 teams along with number of bad losses. I cannot say this is actually what the selection committee relies on, but it is a good indicator.
Nice of you to quote JB.
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MTSU 71, Vandy 48.
The Headline in the Nashville paper was 'Mighty MTSU crushes cowering Vanderbilt".
Good grief. Though to be fair, MTSU is 9-1 with a 15-point win over Ole Miss. KenPom has them at #73 (Vandy at #77)--granted, that's after the win.
Let's just hope Drew finds his footing in conference--not all that unusual.
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I still believe it is who you beat that matters. Home games against teams 150+ are expected to be wins and only matter if they turn into bad losses. Generally, all road wins are good wins. That is why I argued our non conference schedule was not strong. It is tougher than last year, but I do not believe replacing 300+ teams with 200+ teams in the end makes a difference when the committee is reviewing your resume with an emphasis on your top 50 record. A loss against a top 50 team can be more favorable than a win against a 200+ team. We have Vandy, Michigan, Pitt, Georgia, Fresno St. and UW and they are not likely to be all top 50 teams. That does not compare favorably to UW playing Creighton, Georgetown, North Carolina, Oklahoma, Syracuse and at MU. The Big East schedule is a tough schedule, but we have no control over that.Wisconsin would be a top 50 win and we really need one of those at this point.
This is the college basketball equivalent of believing the world is flat.
I've belabored this with you what feels like a dozen times. It's just not worth it anymore. This is a blatantly, obviously false sentiment with no bearing in reality or acknowledgment of past history.
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This is the college basketball equivalent of believing the world is flat.
I've belabored this with you what feels like a dozen times. It's just not worth it anymore. This is a blatantly, obviously false sentiment with no bearing in reality or acknowledgment of past history.
If we don't question mathematics, then who will?!?!
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Non-conference SOS will end up somewhere between 150-180. That's adequate. Total SOS will be top 50. Just have to win enough games.
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How dare you simplify this debate.
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How many years ahead do they schedule games? Two? How can you predict where a team will stand in out years? Next year Wisconsin may look like Iowa, Marquette may look like Vilanova and Georgetown may look like ND. So it then comes down to major conference teams, therefore, good enough is good enough.
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Non-conference SOS will end up somewhere between 150-180. That's adequate. Total SOS will be top 50. Just have to win enough games.
That is what I am saying, but no one seems to understand you have to beat some of the top teams on your schedule. Replacing 300+ wins with 200+ wins does not matter if you cannot win some top 50 games. This team could win 19 games without beating any top 50 teams and that will not get them a tournament bid no matter how strong the overall schedule is. Some of you think I am dense, but you guys are dense if you think we are going to get a bid without beating top 50 teams.
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That is what I am saying, but no one seems to understand you have to beat some of the top teams on your schedule. Replacing 300+ wins with 200+ wins does not matter if you cannot win some top 50 games. This team could win 19 games without beating any top 50 teams and that will not get them a tournament bid no matter how strong the overall schedule is. Some of you think I am dense, but you guys are dense if you think we are going to get a bid without beating top 50 teams.
When has anyone said that you don't have to beat top 50 teams? What does that have anything to do with scheduling RPI 200 vs. 300 cupcakes?
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Vanderbilt
Record: 6-6
Wins: Belmont, Norfolk State, Santa Clara, Tennessee State, High Point, Chatanooga
Losses: Marquette, Bucknell, Butler, Minnesota, @Middle Tennessee State, @Dayton
Howard:
Record: 1-8
Wins: American, 2 non-D1 opponents
Losses: @Michigan, @Marquette, @IUPUI, Gardner-Webb, @Georgetown, @Maryland, @George Washington, Jacksonville State
Michigan:
Record: 9-3
Wins: Howard, IUPUI, Marquette, SMU, Mount St. Mary's, Kennesaw State, Texas, Cental Arkansas, Maryland Eastern Shore
Losses: @South Carolina, Virginia Tech, @UCLA
Pittsburgh:
Record: 10-2
Wins: Eastern Michigan, Gardner-Webb, Marquette, Yale, Morehead State, @Maryland, Buffalo, Penn State, Rice, Omaha
Losses: SMU, Duquesne
IUPUI:
Record: 4-8
Wins: Howard, Eastern Michigan, @Ball State, 1 non-D1 opponent, @Southern Utah
Losses: @Eastern Kentucky, @Michigan, @Marquette, @SIUE, @Illinois State, @Illinois, @Miami (OH), @Northwestern
Houston Baptist:
Record: 1-5
Wins: 3 non-D1 Opponents, St. Peter's
Losses: @Texas Tech, @New Mexico, @Marquette, @Rice, @Indiana
Western Carolina:
Record: 3-7
Wins: 1 non-D1 Opponent, @Jackson State, @Appalachian State, High Point
Losses: @Miami (FL), North Carolina Central, @Marshall, @Ohio State, @Marquette, West Virginia, @UNC-Asheville
Georgia:
Record: 7-3
Wins: UNC-Asheville, George Washington, Gardner-Web, 1 non-D1 opponent, UL Lafayette, Charleston Southern, @Georgia Tech
Losses: @Clemson, Kansas, Marquette
Fresno State:
Record: 6-4
Wins: UTSA, Lamar, @Oregon State, 2 non-D1 opponents, @Drake, Cal Poly, @Pacific
Losses: Prairie View A&M, @Cal State Bakersfield, @Oregon
Wisconsin:
Record: 10-2
Wins: Central Arkansas, Chicago State, Tennessee, Georgetown, Prairie View A&M, Syracuse, Oklahoma, Idaho State, @Marquette, UWGB
Losses: @Creighton, North Carolina
St. Francis (PA):
Record: 2-8
Wins: 1 non-D1 opponent, Longwood, @American
Losses: @St. Bonaventure, @Duquesne, @NJIT, Binghamton, @Lehigh, Stony Brook, @Marquette, @Texas A&M
SIU Edwardsville:
Record: 4-8
Wins: @Hawaii, Florida Atlantic, IUPUI, @Grand Canyon
Losses: Texas State, Southern Illinois, @Arkansas State, @Indiana, Stetson, 1 non-D1 opponent, @Saint Louis, @UWGB, @Marquette
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So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.
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So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.
I agree. Mild disappointment but a nonconf record we can live with. Pitt win would make a 9-9 BE passible but now 10-8 or better needed.
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Vanderbilt
Record: 8-6
Non Con: 6-6
Conference: 2-0
Howard:
Record: 3-12
Non Con: 3-11
Conference: 0-1
Michigan:
Record: 11-4
Non Con: 10-3
Conference: 1-1
Pittsburgh:
Record: 12-3
Non Con: 11-2
Conference: 1-1
IUPUI:
Record: 7-8
Non Con: 6-8
Conference: 1-0
Houston Baptist:
Record: 5-7
Non Con: 4-6
Conference: 1-1
Western Carolina:
Record: 5-10
Non Con: 5-8
Conference: 0-2
Georgia:
Record: 9-5
Non Con: 8-4
Conference: 1-1
Fresno State:
Record: 10-5
Non Con: 8-4
Conference: 2-1
Wisconsin:
Record: 13-2
Non Con: 11-2
Conference: 2-0
St. Francis (PA):
Record: 4-9
Non Con: 3-8
Conference: 1-1
SIU Edwardsville:
Record: 5-10
Non Con: 5-9
Conference: 0-1
Howard has turned into a real bummer. Its not their fault. James Daniel, the leading scorer in D1 last season, is still out with an ankle injury. Not sure if he will come back at all. Howard better hopes he does otherwise that has grad transfer written all over it. Their second best player James Miller aggravated an injury that kept him out all of last season and he's missed half their games too.They had a good chance to win the MEAC this year but they can't seem to catch a break.
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So we've played two good teams (UW and Michigan) and lost. We're 1-1 vs pretty decent teams (Georgia and Pitt), 2-0 against kind of bad teams (Vandy and Fresno) and undefeated against the cupcakes. Not bad, but we'll need some signature wins in conference play. What worries me is that the Bradley Center hasn't been much help against premier teams lately.
The best home court advantage is a band box or being in a one horse town like Dayton, Blacksburg or Omaha.
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We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice
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We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice
That would make us 12-6 in the Big East. I don't think we have to do quite that much to get an NCAA Bid. I would like to find a way to take 2 of 4 at home against Xavier, Creighton, Villanova and Butler. Do that and otherwise what you said and I think we are solidly in.
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We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice
We aren't going to, nor do we have to.
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We don't need this debate if MU would win games like Pitt and Seton Hall rather then lose them.
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We have to win all of our home games and beat depaul, georgetown and st johns twice
To get 3rd in the big east yes we need to do that
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We don't need this debate if MU would win games like Pitt and Seton Hall rather then lose them.
Doubly so if we would win games like Michigan and Wisconsin.
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Doubly so if we would win games like Michigan and Wisconsin.
That is what is wrong with the schedule debate, The schedule does not get you in the tournament. Winning games is what gets you in the tournament. Last year's schedule would of got us in the tournament, if we would of won 25(?) games. This year's schedule will take less wins, but the wins are tougher to come by. We were not good enough to win enough games last year. While it is true a tougher schedule requires less wins, it is still the wins that matter.
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That is what is wrong with the schedule debate, The schedule does not get you in the tournament. Winning games is what gets you in the tournament. Last year's schedule would of got us in the tournament, if we would of won 25(?) games. This year's schedule will take less wins, but the wins are tougher to come by. We were not good enough to win enough games last year. While it is true a tougher schedule requires less wins, it is still the wins that matter.
The worst, this is.
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We don't need this debate if MU would win games like Pitt and Seton Hall rather then lose them.
Doubly so if we would win games like Michigan and Wisconsin.
If we did the above then Nova would be playing the #1 team tomorrow, not MU.
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If we did the above then Nova would be playing the #1 team tomorrow, not MU.
This is incorrect.
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The worst, this is.
+1
As bad as it is in written form, when done verbally it makes my head shake.
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That is what is wrong with the schedule debate, The schedule does not get you in the tournament. Winning games is what gets you in the tournament. Last year's schedule would of got us in the tournament, if we would of won 25(?) games. This year's schedule will take less wins, but the wins are tougher to come by. We were not good enough to win enough games last year. While it is true a tougher schedule requires less wins, it is still the wins that matter.
No, sadly what's wrong is you every time you discuss scheduling. This is no exception.
In the past 7 years, Marquette has played 45 games against sub-100 non-conference teams at home. They are 44-1 in those games, with the only exception being Nebraska-Omaha in the disastrous 2015 campaign. So on those odds, playing a sub-100 non-con team at home is 97.8% likely to yield a win. 45 games in 7 years means we average 6.4 such games per year.
Why is this important? We play 30-31 regular season games per year. 18 on conference, 6 "quality" non-con games (tournament, home-and-home, neutral, etc), and these 6.4 games. The conference games will always be determined for us. 4/6 quality games will be assigned by the non-con tournament we play in and the inclusion of Wisconsin. That means that at the end of the day, we have control over at most 8.4 games on the schedule (unless we play in the Gavitt, then only 7.4).
So over 75% of the controllable schedule comes down to those 6.4 games. We know playing teams that win single digit games will drag down the RPI, so maximizing those few games is of the utmost importance. Those 6.4 games are the difference between winning 20 games and having a 110 RPI or winning 19 games and having a 46 RPI like we are projected to have now.
What's most important is that 97.8% likelihood of a win. We're going 6.4-0 in those games anyway. Do you want to have to go 13-11 in the other games to get a bid or 17-7? You're playing the same 24 teams in those games regardless. The end result is the same, but the scheduling makes all the difference.
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If we did the above then Nova would be playing the #1 team tomorrow, not MU.
Doubtful. I think we would be 6th behind Villanova, Baylor, Kansas, UCLA, and Gonzaga. But I understand your point. It would be a top 10 matchup for sure. Possibly top 5.
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Holy poop, Artis with 43 points for Pitt tonight in a close loss @#14 Louisville
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Michigan got crushed at Illinois-Urbana Wednesday night: 85-69
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+1
As bad as it is in written form, when done verbally it makes my head shake.
Why verbally? I get the issue of typing would of or should of, but would've and should've are perfectly acceptable contractions of would have or should have. And when speaking, would've sounds an awful lot like would of, so much so that I can't tell the difference.
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Here's an update on how they are all performing, using Pomeroy numbers. Only counting D1 opponents for record and in best wins and worst losses:
64 Vanderbilt, 8-8 (2-2)
Best Wins: 62 Chattanooga, 104 Auburn, @135 LSU
Worst Losses: @57 Middle Tennessee, @77 Alabama, 113 Bucknell
Next Three: 1/14 66 Tennessee, 1/17 @49 Georgia, 1/21 @14 Florida
338 Howard, 1-13 (0-1)
Best Win: 301 American
Worst Losses: 191 Jacksonville State, 220 Gardner-Webb (N), 346 Florida A&M
Next Three: 1/14 @313 Maryland-Eastern Shore, 1/16 345 Coppin State, 1/21 @344 North Carolina A&T
46 Michigan, 11-6 (1-3)
Best Wins: 26 SMU (N), 35 Marquette (N), 82 Texas
Worst Losses: 53 Maryland, @63 Illinois, @70 Iowa
Next Three: 1/14 86 Nebraska, 1/17 @9 Wisconsin, 1/21 63 Illinois
51 Pittsburgh 12-5 (1-3)
Best Wins: 4 Virginia, 35 Marquette (N), @53 Maryland
Worst Losses: 26 SMU (N), @54 Syracuse, 196 Duquesne (N)
Next Three: 1/14 38 Miami, 1/17 @65 NC State, 1/24 11 Louisville
174 IUPUI 5-11 (1-3)
Best Wins: 92 Eastern Michigan, 199 Ball State, 268 Western Illinois
Worst Losses: @285 Miami (OH), @286 Eastern Kentucky, @323 SIU-Edwardsville
Next Three: 1/14 @213 Oral Roberts, 1/18 252 South Dakota State, 1/21 169 Denver
238 Houston Baptist 4-8 (3-2)
Best Wins: 186 St. Peter's, @206 Sam Houston State, 227 Southeastern Louisiana
Worst Losses: @136 New Mexico, @239 Stephen F Austin, 310 Central Arkansas
Next Three: 1/14 @305 Incarnate Word, 1/19 @219 New Orleans, @227 Southeastern Louisiana
311 Western Carolina 3-12 (0-4)
Best Wins: @243 Appalachian State, 306 High Point, @308 Jackson State
Worst Losses: 159 Samford, 164 NC-Central, @335 VMI
Next Three: 1/14 @68 East Tennessee State, 1/19 296 The Citadel, 1/21 183 Mercer
49 Georgia 10-5 (3-1)
Best Wins: @96 Mississippi, @104 Auburn, 116 UNC-Asheville
Worst Losses: 31 South Carolina, 35 Marquette, @74 Oakland
Next Three: 1/14 @14 Florida, 1/17 64 Vanderbilt, 1/21 @55 Texas A&M
150 Fresno State 8-7 (2-3)
Best Wins: 73 Nevada, 139 Wyoming, @228 Pacific
Worst Losses: @192 Air Force, @208 San Jose State, 321 Prairie View A&M
Next Three: 1/14 69 Boise State, 1/18 110 Colorado State, 1/21 @73 Nevada
9 Wisconsin 14-3 (3-1)
Best Wins: @28 Indiana, @35 Marquette, 54 Syracuse
Worst Losses: 6 North Carolina (N), @18 Purdue, @20 Creighton
Next Three: 1/17 46 Michigan, 1/21 @34 Minnesota, 1/24 83 Penn State
271 St. Francis, PA 5-10 (3-2)
Best Wins: @290 Robert Morris, @301 American, @314 Sacred Heart
Worst Losses: 249 LIU-Brooklyn, @273 Fairleigh Dickinson, 298 Binghamton
Next Three: 1/14 @224 Mount St. Mary's, 1/19 277 Bryant, 1/21 342 Central Connecticut
323 SIU-Edwardsville 4-12 (0-4)
Best Wins: 174 IUPUI, @190 Grand Canyon, @276 Hawaii
Worst Losses: 307 Austin Peay, 315 Stetson, @219 St. Louis
Next Three: 1/14 160 Murray State, 1/19 @251 Southeast Missouri State, 1/21 @241 Tennessee-Martin
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You guys are really gonna piss wadesworld and his gang of tools off if you don't move this to the superbar.
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You guys are really gonna piss wadesworld and his gang of tools off if you don't move this to the superbar.
Teal?
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Vandy win @ #19 FLA 68-66.
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A real heartbreaker for Georgia yesterday. If you didn't see it, watch the highlights. Scoop would be in meltdown if that happened to MU.
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A real heartbreaker for Georgia yesterday. If you didn't see it, watch the highlights. Scoop would be in meltdown if that happened to MU.
Happy my Aggies won, but Georgia got jobbed.
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Big win for Vandy at Florida yesterday, moved their RPI to 55.
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Big win for Vandy at Florida yesterday, moved their RPI to 55.
Only to 57 through yesterday's games. At the moment, 58.
Again, I'd warn against some sources. ESPN is one who is usually wrong.
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Tanned Tommy currently being taken to the woodshed by Michigan. Hopefully Michigan doesnt pull a Nova ;)
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Vandy wins easily at Arkansas without Matthew Fisher Davis and is at a 48 RPI.
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Vandy wins easily at Arkansas without Matthew Fisher Davis and is at a 48 RPI.
That helps. Michigan also trounced MSU last night.
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Vandy wins easily at Arkansas without Matthew Fisher Davis and is at a 48 RPI.
Is vandy considered a "good" win now?
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Is vandy considered a "good" win now?
No.
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No.
Depends on your definition of good. A neutral court drubbing of a top 50 team is definitely good. I don't know that it's great.
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Is vandy considered a "good" win now?
No.
Hopefully it ends up as another top 50 RPI win. Not great, but those will help on SS.
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No.
I wouldn't be so quickly dismissive.
Perhaps the question needs to be...Is the Marquette loss a bad loss for Vandy at this time?
Vandy has exactly one loss all season to a team with a worse current RPI than Marquette, at this time. (Bucknell 84)
Marquette has some opportunities left. Hopefully they will take advantage of them.
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Vandy is a 12-12 overall team that is 5-6 in the SEC. They have one good win (at Florida) and a couple decent wins (at Texas A&M and vs. Iowa State). They got smoked by Middle Tennessee. Their RPI makes it a nice win for us, but they are not a good basketball team.
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Vandy is a 12-12 overall team that is 5-6 in the SEC. They have one good win (at Florida) and a couple decent wins (at Texas A&M and vs. Iowa State). They got smoked by Middle Tennessee. Their RPI makes it a nice win for us, but they are not a good basketball team.
And Middle Tennessee and their 41 RPI and 19-4 record is a good basketball team.
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And Middle Tennessee and their 41 RPI and 19-4 record is a good basketball team.
A basketball team I'd surely want to play in March though if MU were to make it.
Look, Vandy is creeping into NCAA consideration. Bunch of people have them in the first grouping of teams considered for the field. Because the middle of all power conferences and back end tourney teams keep losing.
Last 24 hours bubble hopeful teams like Wake, Iowa State, Michigan State, Arkansas, OK State, Clemson, Georgetown, Georgia, and NC State have all lost. Most of those teams have more losses than us and about half or more play in a weaker conference.
PC up early on Seton Hall, Miami playing Va Tech. A few other bubbly teams in action.
They gotta fill this field in 3.5 weeks..
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If its any consolation, Northwestern just beat Wisconsin at the Kohl hole. To add insult to injury, NU did it without their leading scorer/best perimeter defender. Go Cats.
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If we can beat X at home, either providence or sju and beat creighton I would feel like we would be in the tourney
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I think the OOC schedule we have this season is perfect for the team we have. If we played stronger competition than our record could look like Gtown's or St.John's. Some time winning against cup cakes and teams of equal "talent" builds confidence; and losing a few teaches how to learn from our mistakes. I know we all want to be in the post season (NCAA) this season, but putting a winning program is more important. With players like Cheatham, Howard, Hauser and perhaps Cain coming next year Wojo is building that program albeit much too slow for many of us here on this board.
St Johns had 3 bad cupcake losses this year. They have screwed everyone in the league because of that.
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To me it doesn't matter if he is building slowly..we are making progress
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This morning I glanced at the news while I was getting ready for work and saw this on the crawl:
...DePaul 92 Butler 62..
It took me a minute to realize it was the women's score. Frickin' NBC5....
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Howard is a buzzsaw with their 345 RPI
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Vanderbilt advances to SEC tourney semifinals with OT win over Florida. It is their 6th RPI top 50 win of the year. They were 43 RPI today. Mid 30's KenPom.
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I think Bryce Drew can coach.
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I think Bryce Drew can coach.
He's really good.