http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2016/9/2/12746918/pistons-links-NBA-young-cores-andre-drummond-boban-marjanovic-stan-van-gundy
Read through to the bottom. Henry is not projected to get minutes and may be assigned to the D-league. Works for me. I'll go to a couple of Grand Rapids games wearing MU swag.
Maybe he can spend some time on the "Marquette University" D-League team? :D
I knew the signing of former badger jon leuer was not good for HE...
Quote from: VegasWarrior77 on September 02, 2016, 06:04:10 PM
I knew the signing of former badger jon leuer was not good for HE...
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nba/pistons/2016/08/12/detroit-pistons-henry-ellenson/88629706/
Called it.
Obviously wasn't hoping for that, but people that thought Henry was ready to guard NBA 4s were simply high.
Can't believe Jon Leuer is still in the league. And actually gets floor time. Saw him a few times when with the Bucks. Harder still to believe he would displace Henry as green as he is.
Good thing Chico's got banned. Didn't he have a bet with someone about Henry being sent to d league?
HE gowne to the D League.
Maybe HE will face up with his old pal Ben Bentil...
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/243183/RJ-Hunter-James-Young-John-Holland-Ben-Bentil-To-Compete-For-Final-Celtics-Roster-Spot
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on September 03, 2016, 12:20:28 PM
Called it.
Obviously wasn't hoping for that, but people that thought Henry was ready to guard NBA 4s were simply high.
I don't think anyone thought that HE was ready to Guard NBA 4s. I also commented on HE likely playing in the D-league.
The counter argument, was one I didn't think of and was very valid, that he was a lottery pick and the team he went to would rather have him on the main roster to work on his game in practice to bang against NBA players every day.
Still to be seen which is really going to be the case, but I really don't think many, if anyone thought he could guard NBA 4s now. I actually lean more towards him spending most of his time on the Detroit roster; it makes more sense long term for him to be developing with his teammates.
I will point out that Henry isn't in the D-League. This was simply a prediction.
^Yup. A First Round DP like HE isn't gonna last that long in NBADL. He'll get called up when needed and sent down for PT when needed.
Should have stayed at Marquette.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on September 03, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Should have stayed at Marquette.
Why? He's getting paid and working on his game daily.
Many were predicting D League, they may be right. What they were dead wrong about was that he wasn't GOWNE, that he wasn't a 1st and that he wasn't GOWNE and that he wasn't GOWNE.
It doesn't matter where he ends up, he was always GOWNE.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on September 03, 2016, 06:54:19 PM
Should have stayed at Marquette.
Why? Will he magically get better guarding NBA 4s while playing against smaller players as a center in college? Will he be better off not making millions of dollars this year? Or would his stock sky rocket despite being a year older?
I willing to bet a good amount of money that he will play more minutes in the NBA next than he did last year at Marquette on top of the dleague games he would he playing in. And the average dleague team is better than the average d-1 team. It's not like he can't develop there.
Quote from: The Lens on September 03, 2016, 09:56:19 PM
Many were predicting D League, they were right.
No. They are not right...yet. Henry isn't in the D-League.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on September 03, 2016, 10:04:22 PM
I willing to bet a good amount of money that he will play more minutes in the NBA next than he did last year at Marquette on top of the dleague games he would he playing in. And the average dleague team is better than the average d-1 team. It's not like he can't develop there.
Much like the NBA, NBDL teams are still D1 all star teams. Might be the backups on the all star team instead of the starters, but they're still the all stars.
So does that Henry banner in the Al come down now?
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on September 04, 2016, 05:40:42 AM
Much like the NBA, NBDL teams are still D1 all star teams. Might be the backups on the all star team instead of the starters, but they're still the all stars.
But it is still Grand Rapids playing in front of high school type crowds (if that) and their facilities are inferior to MU. None of the away games are in major cities.
So unless the Ellenson family is desperately homeless and living on assistance, another year at MU would have been preferable. The money would be there in a year.
The only winner is Jay-Z.
Quote from: Jesse Livermore on September 04, 2016, 07:31:57 AM
But it is still Grand Rapids playing in front of high school type crowds (if that) and their facilities are inferior to MU. None of the away games are in major cities.
So unless the Ellenson family is desperately homeless and living on assistance, another year at MU would have been preferable. The money would be there in a year.
The only winner is Jay-Z.
Why does your family need to be poor to enjoy being an 18 year old millionaire?
How do you know what would have been preferable for someone that you've never met?
How do you know the money would have been there in a year?
And also, how do we know this article is actually going to come true. Its just predicting that HE Man is going to the D-League. I wanted him to stay too but to say he for sure would have been better off not going pro can only be an opinion and one that's not supported by many facts.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 04, 2016, 09:29:12 AM
Why does your family need to be poor to enjoy being an 18 year old millionaire?
How do you know what would have been preferable for someone that you've never met?
How do you know the money would have been there in a year?
What you're missing is that Henry would make Marquette better, so it would have been the best decision for us as fans. Jeez, TAMU, would you stop thinking about the Ellensons for once?
People think NBA teams already have made their roster decisions before training camp started? Well, that's an interesting take.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 03, 2016, 12:57:59 PM
Good thing Chico's got banned. Didn't he have a bet with someone about Henry being sent to d league?
Yeah, wades and CBB had that bet; he probably doesn't want the money, but maybe a simple walk down Wisconsin avenue naked with only a samich board saying "FREE CHICOS"!! And GO WARRIORS!! That ought to do it, Eyn'a?
Quote from: Jesse Livermore on September 04, 2016, 07:31:57 AM
But it is still Grand Rapids playing in front of high school type crowds (if that) and their facilities are inferior to MU. None of the away games are in major cities.
So unless the Ellenson family is desperately homeless and living on assistance, another year at MU would have been preferable. The money would be there in a year.
The only winner is Jay-Z.
I guess I don't get your point. So playing in front of a ton of sweater vests is better than playing against better talent in a high school gym? Even if he spends a month in the dleague, he will have spent all camp and most of the season in the NBA and those teams have way better resources than Marquette. They have better coaches, better trainer and better facilities.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on September 05, 2016, 05:42:48 PM
I guess I don't get your point. So playing in front of a ton of sweater vests for free is better than playing against better talent in a high school gym for $1.7 million?
FTFY
https://www.yahoo.com/news/summer-rewind-detroit-pistons-000000928.html
$1.7 million to not go to class, to work on his game and his body, be it in Detroit or GR. HE'll be fine.
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
Yeah, people are usually in the top 0.000001% of the world population in what they do by not working hard to develop and having no will to get better.
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
Definitely the other end of the expectation extreme, but one that is quite possible and I would not be surprised to see.
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
Honestly, from 50,000 feet, this is the best assessment of HE I've read in here. I hope you're wrong and this kid has a stellar DWade-type career. It would be good for the university if he did. But...
I saw a lot of the same thing you did last year. I saw a young man adapting to a very different game than what he undoubtedly saw before coming to Marquette. At times he was brilliant but too often, he forgot he was no longer at Rice Lake High or in the Nike/Adidas/etc summer leagues. If he finds what he needs on the end of NBA bench for the next three years, OK, he was better off than at Marquette.
But I still maintain the value of a Marquette education, especially once the NBA career ends, is much greater than is being estimated in here. I'm not sure the money compensates for the fact that HE does not appear ready for the NBA.
Have at me......
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
I don't necessarily have a problem with the prediction, but the bolded statements. How do you know what his work ethic and drive are? He's 19 years old. He may not fully understand what he needs to do to succeed, but did any of us at his age?
i questioned his NBA readiness last year a few times, while also noting that NBA scouts obviously know more and saw something that i wasn't. i think the fact that he slid so far in the draft is telling, but i also think his size and skill-set is unique. the telling part for me is that when someone with his size and skill-set slides so far in the draft, teams aren't seeing enough potential to justify the risk/reward. the question that always worried me with HE was, "who can he guard and can he get to the rim?"
So now it is the concensus that Henry is lazy? Scoop can be quite laughable at times.
I would hazard a guess that nary a single one of our experts has ever been in the gym when Henry works out or has even seen him work out. But because you are Scoopers, you just know things.
So, Henry's already getting the Vander treatment around here, huh?
Quote from: brandx on September 06, 2016, 12:37:11 PM
So now it is the concensus that Henry is lazy?
Well he did only get the easy rebounds
Quote from: Pakuni on September 06, 2016, 12:49:05 PM
So, Henry's already getting the Vander treatment around here, huh?
There is an insatiable hunger to eat our young.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on September 06, 2016, 12:16:43 PM
I don't necessarily have a problem with the prediction, but the bolded statements. How do you know what his work ethic and drive are? He's 19 years old. He may not fully understand what he needs to do to succeed, but did any of us at his age?
He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them. From there he makes assumptions that,
perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought. No need to run to the player's defense at all times.
Also, its laughable that "he would improve more with more time at Marquette and not the NBA" thought exists. Players will improve when basketball is full time and being around the best players, coaches, facilities, treatments, etc. in the world. Those who think that way are just wishing he would have stayed around longer to make Marquette a better team next year. Stop being selfish and let the kid do what
literally everyone else on this board would do given the same opportunity.
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them. From there he makes assumptions that, perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought. No need to run to the player's defense at all times.
How did Henry's talent level get to the point it is without him working at it?
I mean, he was hardly the only tall kid in the NCAA last year. What made him stand out above the vast majority of those other tall kids was the result of something other than him working at his game?
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
He didn't claim to know of his work ethic or drive, just that he hasn't heard about them. From there he makes assumptions that, perhaps, because of Ellenson's talent level being so much greater of his peers growing up, he hasn't had to work as hard and now is challenged by equal/greater talents and needs to show a better work ethic to improve and compete. Seems like a reasonable thought. No need to run to the player's defense at all times.
I will run to the player's defense when the OP implies multiple times that he isn't a hard worker without any evidence.
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 01:20:02 PM
Also, its laughable that "he would improve more with more time at Marquette and not the NBA" thought exists. Players will improve when basketball is full time and being around the best players, coaches, facilities, treatments, etc. in the world. Those who think that way are just wishing he would have stayed around longer to make Marquette a better team next year. Stop being selfish and let the kid do what literally everyone else on this board would do given the same opportunity.
I agree with that.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on September 06, 2016, 01:39:28 PM
I will run to the player's defense when the OP implies multiple times that he isn't a hard worker without any evidence.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 06, 2016, 01:36:11 PM
How did Henry's talent level get to the point it is without him working at it?
I mean, he was hardly the only tall kid in the NCAA last year. What made him stand out above the vast majority of those other tall kids was the result of something other than him working at his game?
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point. He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.
If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point. He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.
If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....
But there is nothing to say that Hank only has 6 cookies. And I doubt many were looking at Jimmy after the draft (where Jimmy was also 3 years older than where Hank is now) saying, "This guy works so hard that he's a sure fire bet to be premier wing in the NBA." When Jimmy was Hank's age all MUScoop knew about him was that he was a tag along for the real prize that MU was getting in Joe Fulce. Maybe at Hank's age Jimmy had the natural ability that we now see but was lazy and didn't put in the work. Who knows? Hank's got 3 years of NBA time to get to whatever perceived superior work ethic people think Jimmy had going into the NBA after his senior year.
Hank didn't just wake up one day and have a basketball skillset that made him one of the top 500 basketball players in a world of 7.4 billion people. I'm fairly confident in saying that he had to work pretty dang hard to get where he is.
i would think the scouts didn't see laziness issues, but rather they saw issues with him being a pretty finished talent where the potential isn't as great is with some better athletes.
Quote from: wadesworld on September 06, 2016, 03:34:01 PM
But there is nothing to say that Hank only has 6 cookies. And I doubt many were looking at Jimmy after the draft saying, "This guy works so hard that he's a sure fire bet to be premier wing in the NBA."
Hank didn't just wake up one day and have a basketball skillset that made him one of the top 500 basketball players in a world of 7.4 billion people. I'm fairly confident in saying that he had to work pretty dang hard to get where he is.
On Butler...that's the point...he wasn't supposed to be a premier wing but he worked his ass off and transformed into one.
He is simply offering his opinion on why he thinks Ellenson won't be an NBA star. He was drafted high enough because of his
potential to become an elite NBA player...but OP is saying he doesn't believe he will reach that potential (and that's okay, it
won't shouldn't affect your life).
Also...there are only 450 players on NBA rosters at a time so Ellenson could be in the top 500 players in the world and not even be on an NBA roster. ;)
I'm going to crawl back into my hole now... :-*
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 03:05:50 PM
I'm not arguing that Ellenson isn't hard working, just pointing out that you seem to be misinterpreting OP's point. He is only saying that he hasn't heard that Ellenson has an elite level work ethic similar to Butler's and that may stunt his ability to break out and have a similar trajectory to Butler as well. It was a comparison between former MU players.
If Butler has 10 cookies and Ellenson has 6 cookies, it doesn't mean Ellenson has 0 cookies, just that Butler has more cookies.....
No I understand his point. However to take your analogy further, he only said he hasn't heard *if* Ellenson has ten cookies. In reality, he has no idea how many cookies Ellenson has.
Quote from: Actually No on September 06, 2016, 03:53:53 PM
He is simply offering his opinion on why he thinks Ellenson won't be an NBA star. He was drafted high enough because of his potential to become an elite NBA player...but OP is saying he doesn't believe he will reach that potential (and that's okay, it won't shouldn't affect your life).
Not really. HE was the 18th pick. In the NBA draft, no smart GM is banking on the 18th pick having the chance to be an elite/all-star player.
Here's a list of past 18th picks: http://www.mynbadraft.com/nba-draft-picks/18th-overall/180509/
While you have some nice players, only Joe Dumars became a consistent All-Star level player. Last year, Sam Dekker was the 18th pick. Did anyone on Scoop think Sam was going to be an All-Star player?
Quote from: axaguy on September 06, 2016, 11:46:19 AM
Hardly ever post here but for what it's worth. Zero, actually, but had a few spare minutes this AM. Personally think HE is a D League lifer or Europe player... Don't/haven't seen true NBA-like performance from him and am not hearing of the hard work or dedication to work ethic JB, Bulls, has displayed.
Am a season ticketholder and didn't see HE improve last year. He has the height which you can't coach but enough talent/ability to shine in HS and have some highlights at MU but not consistently enough and get a look from the NBA. Didn't see him progress last year. Am an MU fan and supporter but don't suffer "homeritis."
Got the cash but would have been better off back at MU for another year, or, yes, two, to develop personally with lots of touches. $1.7 mil is pocket change to an NBA team today...... Won't be more if he doesn't take initiative himself and work his but off..... There's another draft class coming in next year with more "hungry" guys and vets aren't just going to allow him to take their place on any team because of his press clippings and expectations.
His development isn't predicated on they type of competition, D Leaguers or college, but more so on his own personal drive and commitment to improve..... Have watched leagues of kids play at lots of levels and HE is good but have seen many other "bigs" not make it. Size alone doesn't separate him from the hungry pack out there..... He's gotta work, perform and improve.......
Just think we won't see him on an NBA bench for sometime, if ever.......
Have at it........................
Again not understanding the end goal. You don't think he developed at all so you are suggesting he stick around two more years? If he's a dleague caliber guy his whole career why wouldn't he cash in now as a guaranteed three year contract?
On the flip side, you said 1.7m is chump change. It really is but the only way to get real money is to enter early and play out the rookie contract. Sticking around two years for free just mean your chump change years are more in your prime (if he develops at Marquette which you said he hasn't.)
Quote from: dgies9156 on September 06, 2016, 12:14:43 PM
Honestly, from 50,000 feet, this is the best assessment of HE I've read in here. I hope you're wrong and this kid has a stellar DWade-type career. It would be good for the university if he did. But...
I saw a lot of the same thing you did last year. I saw a young man adapting to a very different game than what he undoubtedly saw before coming to Marquette. At times he was brilliant but too often, he forgot he was no longer at Rice Lake High or in the Nike/Adidas/etc summer leagues. If he finds what he needs on the end of NBA bench for the next three years, OK, he was better off than at Marquette.
But I still maintain the value of a Marquette education, especially once the NBA career ends, is much greater than is being estimated in here. I'm not sure the money compensates for the fact that HE does not appear ready for the NBA.
Have at me......
You do realize that he can come back and graduate from Marquette right? After three years in the NBA, I think he can afford private tuition. Then again, he comes back and tears an acl I'm sure his Marquette tuition will more than cover the $5 million in guaranteed money he is getting from the Pistons.
HE is one of the best big men MU has had for many years. On that I think we can agree. Now the question is will HE be an impact player some day in the NBA? I wish him all the best but impact player, I do not think so. Will he make several million, sure, so in that sense many would agree he is a success but only HE can make that judgement.
I honestly have no idea what HE will become in the NBA. I see a pretty wide spectrum of outcomes. That may seem like a cop out but there is honestly no way to tell right now. He has some great strengths as well as some areas he really needs to improve upon.
I do wonder if him being a Marquette alum does color some of the more positive viewpoints though.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on September 06, 2016, 12:16:43 PM
I don't necessarily have a problem with the prediction, but the bolded statements. How do you know what his work ethic and drive are? He's 19 years old. He may not fully understand what he needs to do to succeed, but did any of us at his age?
I'm agreeing with you way too much lately for comfort, I'll add some more commentary though.
I've been very hard on HE, because I think he has a ton of potential and didn't push as hard last year as he could. That is a long long way from saying he didn't work hard though.
Like you say, he is 19, he was in a one year stopover in college to have fun and play with his brother. He has years to grow as a person and a player. For all anyone here knows he has been growing leaps and bounds in terms of his game, strength and defense every day.
Right now saying he will flop due to a poor work ethic is just as accurate as saying he is clearly going to be the next Lebron James. Hell, he could blow out a knee in practice and spend a career with injuries. Way too many unknowns.
All we know right now, is HE has a unique combination of size, athleticism and skills that provide him the potential to be a very good NBA player. The rest will play out as it does. If he spends some time in the D-league, it will be because people being paid far more than us to develop players think it is the best way to get him ready for major contributions. Lets wait and see before we through him under the bus.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on September 06, 2016, 11:35:29 PM
I honestly have no idea what HE will become in the NBA. I see a pretty wide spectrum of outcomes. That may seem like a cop out but there is honestly no way to tell right now. He has some great strengths as well as some areas he really needs to improve upon.
I do wonder if him being a Marquette alum does color some of the more positive negative viewpoints though.
FTFY
Quote from: forgetful on September 07, 2016, 12:12:20 AM
All we know right now, is HE has a unique combination of size, athleticism and skills that provide him the potential to be a very good NBA player. The rest will play out as it does.
He has size and skill, but I'm not so sure about the athleticism part, which has always been my concern for him at the next level. He's got good hands and will be a good shooter, but not sure he's athletic enough to defend anybody in the NBA. I hope he excels, but I think a big guy off the bench providing a dozen OK minutes a game is the kind of player he'll end up being. That will be enough to set him up for life if he's smart.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on September 03, 2016, 12:20:28 PM
Called it.
Obviously wasn't hoping for that, but people that thought Henry was ready to guard NBA 4s were simply high.
I was never thought HE was ready for the NBA but guaranteed money at the 18th pick versus $0 in college. Seems like an obvious choice.
If Henry gets assigned to the D-League, I'm not sure what the big deal is.
On average, that happens to 62 NBA players a year — roughly 1 in 7 of the players on a 15-man roster. Last year, about half of 2014 first-round picks (14 out of 30) spent time in the D-League. Players selected at a similar position in the draft, such as Terry Rozier (#16 in 2015), James Young (#17 in 2014), Sam Dekker (#18 in 2015) and Delon Wright (#20 in 2015), were assigned to the D-League multiple times.
If Henry was a complete package coming out of college, he would have been drafted higher. Instead, like the players noted above (and many others), he has talent and potential that need development. That's what the "D" in D-League stands for. That's exactly what the D-League is designed for.
Quote from: BallBoy on September 07, 2016, 12:44:49 PM
I was never thought HE was ready for the NBA but guaranteed money at the 18th pick versus $0 in college. Seems like an obvious choice.
If the draft consisted only of players ready for the NBA, it would last about 12 picks.
If you ask me, the NBA-DL is not used nearly enough in the NBA.
I think every team should have an affiliate and all rookies [Fr, Soph,] should go there and spend time there the first month and a half of the season.
The NBA should not just let rookies play right away I don't care who you are. The league gets too young and dumb every year with players entering the league who are year removed from high school and AAU ball and do not know how to be Pro's.
Come on now. No one wonder the NBA brand is failing...and all the teams do is just play the stacking game. All the stars follow each other and stack the league to two or three great team where you know before the season starts who is going to be in the finals. In MLB you don't know that and it is harder to predict. Same in the NFL by and large.
I could ramble on but the worse mistake the Bucks made was not sending Giannis to the D-league. Henry can use it and so could the Bucks Thon Maker..
Malcolm Brogdan on the other hand is ready to go. He is 23 and is a 5th year senior who played under Bennett at Virginia. I would move Middleton to 6th man and let him start actually...
Quote from: Pakuni on September 07, 2016, 06:03:17 PM
If the draft consisted only of players ready for the NBA, it would last about 12 picks.
Agreed. But I also say it's Less than that. It would last 3 picks....tops!
12 only if those players were upperclassmen [Junior's and Seniors in college].
Send ALL OF THEM TO THE D- LEAGUE TO WORK THEIR WAY UP TO THE NBA.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on September 13, 2016, 01:41:31 AM
Come on now. No one wonder the NBA brand is failing...
http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/20/media/nba-finals-game-7-ratings/
Just failing...
I don't think the NBA is failing, but it is getting young and dumb. There are simply players who are too dumb to win in the league, and it's mostly because of inexperience, not due to their mental state. I live 12 hours opposite the central time zone and every morning when I work out during the season I watch an NBA game on NBA gametime. I'll watch a few teams that are well coached, have a system and have players who buy in (Boston, Miami, GSW, Dallas, San Antonio) and even not great teams that have a system and players who buy in (Toronto, Portland) but when it's two teams with bad coaching and dumb players (Sacramento, Denver, NOLA, Orlando) it's just not worth it. I think this is the "failing" referred to previously.
If the teams had less pressure to play 1st and 2nd year players and could develop them on a profitable 2nd level team - they all would. The problem is that the D league isn't good enough yet to support NBA rookie salaries, and needs 12 of the 14 guys to be on 20k /year to support the 2 that are on NBA contracts.
Solution: D league starts immediately after summer league and runs through the end of Feb. NBA teams get two extra roster slots from March 15 onward, and players from their own system don't count against the salary cap. Players develop system knowledge and call-ups and rehab assignments still happen. The product improves as young players develop faster!
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on September 13, 2016, 01:41:31 AM
If you ask me, the NBA-DL is not used nearly enough in the NBA.
I think every team should have an affiliate and all rookies [Fr, Soph,] should go there and spend time there the first month and a half of the season.
The NBA should not just let rookies play right away I don't care who you are. The league gets too young and dumb every year with players entering the league who are year removed from high school and AAU ball and do not know how to be Pro's.
Come on now. No one wonder the NBA brand is failing...and all the teams do is just play the stacking game. All the stars follow each other and stack the league to two or three great team where you know before the season starts who is going to be in the finals. In MLB you don't know that and it is harder to predict. Same in the NFL by and large.
I could ramble on but the worse mistake the Bucks made was not sending Giannis to the D-league. Henry can use it and so could the Bucks Thon Maker..
Malcolm Brogdan on the other hand is ready to go. He is 23 and is a 5th year senior who played under Bennett at Virginia. I would move Middleton to 6th man and let him start actually...
I have a hard time agreeing that Giannis should have went to the D-league at any time based on this past season. He seems to be developing nicely. It may have happened quicker in the D-League but I'm not too disappointed about the results.
I think the D-League could be good for Henry only because the Pistons would be competing for a playoff spot and has some guys blocking him. If they think he would benefit from minutes in the D-League to work on his game and get used to a higher level of play, it could be beneficial. Same for a guy like Maker. I don't know if there's a hard and fast rule though. If the team is going to be terrible, let the young guys learn and play through mistakes.
Brogdon may be a serviceable player and a steal in the second round, but Middleton is a proven NBA player. Brogdon is still a second round rookie. I'd be shocked if he is even close to Middleton as a player at this point.
Quote from: WarriorFan on September 13, 2016, 10:22:00 AM
I don't think the NBA is failing, but it is getting young and dumb. There are simply players who are too dumb to win in the league, and it's mostly because of inexperience, not due to their mental state. I live 12 hours opposite the central time zone and every morning when I work out during the season I watch an NBA game on NBA gametime. I'll watch a few teams that are well coached, have a system and have players who buy in (Boston, Miami, GSW, Dallas, San Antonio) and even not great teams that have a system and players who buy in (Toronto, Portland) but when it's two teams with bad coaching and dumb players (Sacramento, Denver, NOLA, Orlando) it's just not worth it. I think this is the "failing" referred to previously.
You could have typed this paragraph in 2006...1996...1986...and 1976. (Probably 1966 but I wasn't watching then.)
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on September 13, 2016, 10:26:50 AM
You could have typed this paragraph in 2006...1996...1986...and 1976. (Probably 1966 but I wasn't watching then.)
1966 was ok. After that, would agree.
I think it takes time for the developmental leagues to find their best role in sports. Golf is a great example. Players start out in Web.com, and in order to be successful they have to consistently be among the top 10. If they do that they can make it to the PGA Tour. Every once in a while a great young player can make it directly to the PGA tour, which to me is like a lottery pick who makes it big early in the NBA.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on September 13, 2016, 11:22:56 AM
I think it takes time for the developmental leagues to find their best role in sports. Golf is a great example. Players start out in Web.com, and in order to be successful they have to consistently be among the top 10. If they do that they can make it to the PGA Tour. Every once in a while a great young player can make it directly to the PGA tour, which to me is like a lottery pick who makes it big early in the NBA.
I don't think that is a great analogy. Golfers aren't drafted. They don't play for any "owners", and the evaluation of their skill is much less subjective. How many swings of the club it takes for them to finish a round of golf is the overriding metric.
Quote from: warriorchick on September 13, 2016, 12:32:46 PM
I don't think that is a great analogy. Golfers aren't drafted. They don't play for any "owners", and the evaluation of their skill is much less subjective. How many swing of the club it takes for them to finish a round of golf is the overriding metric.
It took golf a while for that developmental league to find its role. As there originally was no direct path from web.com tour to main tour. Every one had to go through q school. Now they have a direct path if they play well.
Basketball developmental league concept is relatively new. Way back in the day they had some minor leagues. Then they developed into the CBA, D League with team tie ins is new.
Football has no minor league.
Baseball farm system was the original.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on September 13, 2016, 01:24:34 PM
It took golf a while for that developmental league to find its role. As there originally was no direct path from web.com tour to main tour. Every one had to go through q school. Now they have a direct path if they play well.
Basketball developmental league concept is relatively new. Way back in the day they had some minor leagues. Then they developed into the CBA, D League with team tie ins is new.
Football has no minor league.
Baseball farm system was the original.
I think hockey has a considerably better farm system than baseball. I think the reason that college football and basketball get scared with minor leagues is because it could easily be argued that the success of minor leagues hurts the college brand of hockey and baseball.