Not sure there has been much discussion about Katin's impact on next year's team, so I pulled his numbers from the past few seasons:
2015-16 @ USC: 11.4 ppg, 18 starts. .373 from 3
2014-15 @ USC: 12.5 ppg, 22 starts, .386 from 3, leading scorer 9 times
2012-13 @ UNLV: 10.1 ppg, 34 starts, .351 from 3
Over a 1,000 career points already.
While I think JJJ will ultimately lead the team in scoring, Katin is going to be a very nice offensive piece either as a starter or 1st off the bench. Definitely will be an impact player this year. Another great transfer add for Wojo and staff.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/katin_reinhardt_1016337.html
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61906/katin-reinhardt
Any of Katin, Cheatham, JJJ, Luke, or Rowsey could lead the team in scoring. Offense won't be the issue.
I've said it before, Reinhardt would have been the 2nd best player on our team last season (3rd once JJJ went all beast mode at the end). We have every reason to expect that Reinhardt will be one of our top players and scorers this season.
Wades is right though, offense is going to be great. Defense and rebounding are more suspect.
Here is a 30 minute highlight clip of Reinhardt. I think he and JJJ are going to be an excellent combo . There will be a virtuous circle of their combination of slashing and outside shooting. Reinhardt is also an excellent free throw shooter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTxQvJ897U
did he have some injuries (18 starts) or just not start on USC every game last year?
Quote from: wadesworld on July 12, 2016, 01:26:59 PM
Any of Katin, Cheatham, JJJ, Luke, or Rowsey could lead the team in scoring. Offense won't be the issue.
Sadly, I'm skeptical that Luke will be that threat. On the plus side, he's
thee guy inside, not having to share touches with Henry. Also, the interior should open up with improved team outside shooting.
On the negative side, I just don't see him asserting himself the way he would need to to lead the team in scoring and there is always the foul trouble issue.
With JJJ, I kinda see it the same way, if he was that type of player we would have seen more of it by now. He'll have his days, but not be consistent enough to lead the team. He
was second to Henry in SOTG wins with 4, though.
Rowsey's done it before, but against a whole different level of competition and with less competition from his teammates for shots, and he'll have tough competition for floor time at the point guard spot.
My best guess is that instead of a from the start points leader, there will be a group of three players who will be grouped close together for most of the year with the actual leader even changing from time to time.
Maybe a surprise from Howard or even Hauser? I'll all depend on readiness to defend and ability to hit their shot against the step up in competition. Things that hopefully Howard will be in a good position to handle given his USA Basketball experience.
Regarding Reinhardt, how much will his rebounding improve? And how much of a lack of rebounding can Wojo accept? From what I've heard, defense shouldn't be an issue, and perhaps even a plus given his versitility to guard different positions.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on July 12, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
Sadly, I'm skeptical that Luke will be that threat. On the plus side, he's thee guy inside, not having to share touches with Henry. Also, the interior should open up with improved team outside shooting.
On the negative side, I just don't see him asserting himself the way he would need to to lead the team in scoring and there is always the foul trouble issue.
With JJJ, I kinda see it the same way, if he was that type of player we would have seen more of it by now. He'll have his days, but not be consistent enough to lead the team. He was second to Henry in SOTG wins with 4, though.
Rowsey's done it before, but against a whole different level of competition and with less competition from his teammates for shots, and he'll have tough competition for floor time at the point guard spot.
My best guess is that instead of a from the start points leader, there will be a group of three players who will be grouped close together for most of the year with the actual leader even changing from time to time.
Maybe a surprise from Howard or even Hauser? I'll all depend on readiness to defend and ability to hit their shot against the step up in competition. Things that hopefully Howard will be in a good position to handle given his USA Basketball experience.
Regarding Reinhardt, how much will his rebounding improve? And how much of a lack of rebounding can Wojo accept? From what I've heard, defense shouldn't be an issue, and perhaps even a plus given his versitility to guard different positions.
If Katin was told he won't be guarding bigger players, he was blatantly lied to. Someone on this team is going to need to develop into our gunner from deep. TBD who that's going to be, but I wouldn't bet against Katin.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on July 12, 2016, 01:53:48 PM
With JJJ, I kinda see it the same way, if he was that type of player we would have seen more of it by now. He'll have his days, but not be consistent enough to lead the team. He was second to Henry in SOTG wins with 4, though.
I think JJJ is going to have a big senior year in comparison to the rest of his career. He definitely was doing well at the end of the year and that was against Big East competition. I am assuming both JJJ and Reinhardt start along with Cheatham, which brings up the question who does not start? It could be Fischer, if his elbow becomes an issue, but hopefully that is not a problem. That means either Wilson or Carter does not start. Is Wojo done trying to make a point guard out of Cheatham?
Quote from: bilsu on July 12, 2016, 02:27:40 PM
I think JJJ is going to have a big senior year in comparison to the rest of his career. He definitely was doing well at the end of the year and that was against Big East competition. I am assuming both JJJ and Reinhardt start along with Cheatham, which brings up the question who does not start? It could be Fischer, if his elbow becomes an issue, but hopefully that is not a problem. That means either Wilson or Carter does not start. Is Wojo done trying to make a point guard out of Cheatham?
You be wrong if you thinks Fischer ain't starting. Wouldn't be surprised if neither Wilson nor Carter start, provided that Howard is good enough to run the point from day 1 (I think he is). Think you're probably right with HC, JJ, and Reinhardt in the 2, 3, and 3.5 spots.
Quote from: RKMU123 on July 12, 2016, 03:03:26 PM
You be wrong if you thinks Fischer ain't starting. Wouldn't be surprised if neither Wilson nor Carter start, provided that Howard is good enough to run the point from day 1 (I think he is). Think you're probably right with HC, JJ, and Reinhardt in the 2, 3, and 3.5 spots.
Howard ain't gonna start. We're not gonna run with a freshman PG 2 years in a row.
Quote from: RKMU123 on July 12, 2016, 03:03:26 PM
You be wrong if you thinks Fischer ain't starting. Wouldn't be surprised if neither Wilson nor Carter start, provided that Howard is good enough to run the point from day 1 (I think he is). Think you're probably right with HC, JJ, and Reinhardt in the 2, 3, and 3.5 spots.
Carter will start at point. Howard will get plenty of time but IMO will be off the ball. Not sure he starts. Time will tell.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 12, 2016, 03:11:41 PM
Howard ain't gonna start. We're not gonna run with a freshman PG 2 years in a row.
Maybe not right away, but I think it will become pretty evident who the better ball player is by early January. I like Traci. Bout the only guy on the squad with any swagger last season. Does some dumb stuff though. So many entry passes that went out of bounds or to the other team. Should be better at that now. Mediocre 3pt shooter at best (save the Butler game), and Wojo clearly values shooting. I'll happily be proven wrong though.
I probably haven't watched enough of Howard to critique him like I can critique Traci, but I'm hesitantly hopping on the Jay Bee train and going all in on Markus.
Sultan has a point that he can play off the ball, and he will at times. I just think his future on this team is at the PG spot, and as such he will get plenty of run there.
Carter will be a steadying leader on this team. He was already the vocal leader of the team last year as a freshman. He's going to be much better with the added 3 point shooting around him this year. And he'll be a menace defensively, especially knowing that we have depth this year in the event that he does get into foul trouble.
Quote from: wadesworld on July 12, 2016, 04:25:51 PM
Howard will be a steadying leader on this team. He was already the vocal leader of the team last year as a freshman. He's going to be much better with the added 3 point shooting around him this year. And he'll be a menace defensively, especially knowing that we have depth this year in the even that he does get into foul trouble.
You mean Carter not Howard?
I think Haanif's days as a point guard are pretty much over.
Carter, Howard and Rowsey will fight it out for those minutes. Howard and Rowsey will likely see time off the ball as well.
Don't think we will be a pg dominant offense this year with our personnel. Lots of guys will be able to facilitate and 3 or 4 of them will be on the court at all times.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 12, 2016, 03:15:04 PM
Carter will start at point. Howard will get plenty of time but IMO will be off the ball. Not sure he starts. Time will tell.
Any guess on PT breakout between Carter and Rowsey?
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on July 12, 2016, 06:04:49 PM
Any guess on PT breakout between Carter and Rowsey?
There are just so many interchangeable parts on this team and so many new guys that it is hard to tell.
I think Luke is the post and gets 30 mpg. I think Carter is the point and gets 25.
That's when it gets difficult. Is Rowsey a better option than Howard at point? Is Howard as good as advertised? Does Duane improve after leveling off sophomore year? Was JJJ's play at the end of last year a sign of things to come or just a blip? Is Reinhardt going to make a big difference? Sam? Sandy? Where is Sacar exactly?
I think Wojo probably has a plan. I also think he realizes that plan can change pretty quickly.
Quote from: RKMU123 on July 12, 2016, 03:03:26 PM
You be wrong if you thinks Fischer ain't starting. Wouldn't be surprised if neither Wilson nor Carter start, provided that Howard is good enough to run the point from day 1 (I think he is). Think you're probably right with HC, JJ, and Reinhardt in the 2, 3, and 3.5 spots.
I said Fischer would not start, if his elbow was a problem. In other words he starts unless he is hurt.
Quote from: bilsu on July 12, 2016, 07:04:07 PM
I said Fischer would not start, if his elbow was a problem. In other words he starts unless he is hurt.
So you shoulda said, if Fisher is unable to play.
If he plays, he starts.
We will probably beat the rodents by double digits if true, does it mean the big ten sit 's or that we are that good?
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on July 12, 2016, 07:58:18 PM
We will probably beat the rodents by double digits if true, does it mean the big ten sit 's or that we are that good?
Reinhardt is new, so by definition he is that good, at least until the first game, after that all bets are off.
This may not be the starting lineup but I think the 5 players with the most minutes will be:
Rowsey
Cheatham
JJJ
Reinhardt
Luke
I think Howard, Duane, Carter, and Sandy will end up with double digit minutes. Heldt gets whatever minutes Luke can't be on the floor. I'm not yet convinced that Hauser and Anim will be ready this season.
I really think people are overthinking this "getting minutes at point guard" thing.
Since Wojo was hired, I've heard reference "no positions, just guards" for both MU and Duke a number of times. If Carter, Rowsey, Howard, Cheatham, and Wilson are all legitimate options as ball handlers, then they'll all get minutes in various combinations.
Sure, Wojo probably has a preference on who he wants on the floor. That might change as the season goes on. That might change as a particular game goes on. Having options is good.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on July 12, 2016, 01:25:12 PM
Not sure there has been much discussion about Katin's impact on next year's team, so I pulled his numbers from the past few seasons:
2015-16 @ USC: 11.4 ppg, 18 starts. .373 from 3
2014-15 @ USC: 12.5 ppg, 22 starts, .386 from 3, leading scorer 9 times
2012-13 @ UNLV: 10.1 ppg, 34 starts, .351 from 3
Over a 1,000 career points already.
While I think JJJ will ultimately lead the team in scoring, Katin is going to be a very nice offensive piece either as a starter or 1st off the bench. Definitely will be an impact player this year. Another great transfer add for Wojo and staff.
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/katin_reinhardt_1016337.html
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/61906/katin-reinhardt
I find it funny that we have people talking about Reinhardt being the leading scorer and others talking about how Duane Wilson won't start/doesn't perform. For those keeping track at home:
Duane Wilson
2014-15 11.9 pts 35.5% 3 pt
2015-16 11.6 pts 34.6% 3 pt (while presumably injured)
He also has to outplay Cheatham
2015-16 11.8 pts 38.7% 3 pt (as a freshman)
Quote from: forgetful on July 12, 2016, 11:36:23 PM
I find it funny that we have people talking about Reinhardt being the leading scorer and others talking about how Duane Wilson won't start/doesn't perform. For those keeping track at home:
Duane Wilson
2014-15 11.9 pts 35.5% 3 pt
2015-16 11.6 pts 34.6% 3 pt (while presumably injured)
He also has to outplay Cheatham
2015-16 11.8 pts 38.7% 3 pt (as a freshman)
Duane has to improve - both individually and as a team player. His shooting, court awareness, and defense all need to get better. If he plays like he did last year, I see no way he will get 20 minutes a game.
Quote from: forgetful on July 12, 2016, 11:36:23 PM
I find it funny that we have people talking about Reinhardt being the leading scorer and others talking about how Duane Wilson won't start/doesn't perform. For those keeping track at home:
Duane Wilson
2014-15 11.9 pts 35.5% 3 pt
2015-16 11.6 pts 34.6% 3 pt (while presumably injured)
He also has to outplay Cheatham
2015-16 11.8 pts 38.7% 3 pt (as a freshman)
Reinhardt played on a MUCH better team than Duane or Cheatham did, he's also a superior defender. He also has the benefit of having the best size to defend larger defenders, so he will likely get more run.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 13, 2016, 12:12:47 AM
Reinhardt played on a MUCH better team than Duane or Cheatham did, he's also a superior defender. He also has the benefit of having the best size to defend larger defenders, so he will likely get more run.
MUCH better is a bit of a stretch. USC was 23-10 and 9-9 in conference. They were better yes, but not by a wide margin.
He is likely the better defender and can guard larger players, true. My point is people are under appreciating Duane Wilson and criticizing him, because they expect more. IF Reinhardt doesn't play like a star they will quickly be attacking him too (see Lockett).
I expect Duane to step up, be much more efficient and a much more solid defender next year.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on July 13, 2016, 12:12:47 AM
Reinhardt played on a MUCH better team than Duane or Cheatham did, he's also a superior defender. He also has the benefit of having the best size to defend larger defenders, so he will likely get more run.
This discussion keeps reminding me of Trent Lockett. If I remember the debate correctly he averaged 14 points a game at Arizona St. in a slower offense than MU. Obviously, he was going to be a big scorer at MU and ended up averaging around 8 pts.
Quote from: bilsu on July 13, 2016, 07:50:02 AM
This discussion keeps reminding me of Trent Lockett. If I remember the debate correctly he averaged 14 points a game at Arizona St. in a slower offense than MU. Obviously, he was going to be a big scorer at MU and ended up averaging around 8 pts.
And was a huge key to an Elite Eight run.
I have said in an earlier thread, but I think Scoop has once again judged a player (Duane) against their expectations of him versus the reality. People expected him to make that next leap. He didn't. However he still had a solid season.
Now people are all excited about JJJ because of a few games at the end of the year where he performed above expectations.
Quote from: forgetful on July 13, 2016, 12:34:43 AM
MUCH better is a bit of a stretch. USC was 23-10 and 9-9 in conference. They were better yes, but not by a wide margin.
He is likely the better defender and can guard larger players, true. My point is people are under appreciating Duane Wilson and criticizing him, because they expect more. IF Reinhardt doesn't play like a star they will quickly be attacking him too (see Lockett).
I expect Duane to step up, be much more efficient and a much more solid defender next year.
23-10 is much more impressive when you play a tougher schedule and actually make the NCAA tournament.
But your point is well taken. Scoopers are notorious for overinflating expectations and attacking those who fall short. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that based on what we know, Reinhardt is a better player than Duane.
Max minutes will go to Cheatham, Fischer, Reinhardt, and JJJ. By max minutes I mean they are physically capable and not in foul trouble. Any other players I think will get minutes based on performance and need. Carter might get 30 one night and 10 the next.
I've learned my lesson with freshmen PG play, I will not make the same mistake with Howard that I did with Carter. Howard looks great and I think he will be a tremendous player for MU over the next 3 or 4 years, but I don't think he will supplant Carter or Rowsey as the go to PG. He'll get minutes and will probably increase them over time but I don't think he averages more than 15 when it's all said and done. Experience really matters at the PG in college and he just doesn't have it yet.
Quote from: forgetful on July 12, 2016, 11:36:23 PM
I find it funny that we have people talking about Reinhardt being the leading scorer and others talking about how Duane Wilson won't start/doesn't perform. For those keeping track at home:
Duane Wilson
2014-15 11.9 pts 35.5% 3 pt
2015-16 11.6 pts 34.6% 3 pt (while presumably injured)
He also has to outplay Cheatham
2015-16 11.8 pts 38.7% 3 pt (as a freshman)
Not to be a stretch four.
Quote from: mu03eng on July 13, 2016, 10:16:17 AM
Max minutes will go to Cheatham, Fischer, Reinhardt, and JJJ. By max minutes I mean they are physically capable and not in foul trouble. Any other players I think will get minutes based on performance and need. Carter might get 30 one night and 10 the next.
I've learned my lesson with freshmen PG play, I will not make the same mistake with Howard that I did with Carter. Howard looks great and I think he will be a tremendous player for MU over the next 3 or 4 years, but I don't think he will supplant Carter or Rowsey as the go to PG. He'll get minutes and will probably increase them over time but I don't think he averages more than 15 when it's all said and done. Experience really matters at the PG in college and he just doesn't have it yet.
Exactly how I see it. Now what's your view on who is 11th and 12th man suggesting 'nominal' minutes and at least 50% DNP-CD during conference?
Quote from: jsglow on July 13, 2016, 12:16:22 PM
Exactly how I see it. Now what's your view on who is 11th and 12th man suggesting 'nominal' minutes and at least 50% DNP-CD during conference?
Sacar and Hauser.
That would be my guess too Sultan. It's not Matt as he have to play the minutes Luke doesn't
nm
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on July 13, 2016, 12:17:17 PM
Sacar and Hauser.
Agreed with Sandy or Howard being 9th and 10th in some order
Quote from: wadesworld on July 13, 2016, 08:18:59 AM
And was a huge key to an Elite Eight run.
True, but what MUScoopers did not take into account was how the MU coach was going to use Lockett. The same may go for Reinhardt. His job may be to rebound and defend the four position and not to score. Having to defend bigger fours may take a toll on his offensive game.
Quote from: bilsu on July 13, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
True, but what MUScoopers did not take into account was how the MU coach was going to use Lockett. The same may go for Reinhardt. His job may be to rebound and defend the four position and not to score. Having to defend bigger fours may take a toll on his offensive game.
Uh-oh.
No too many worse candidates for that role.
Quote from: bilsu on July 13, 2016, 01:54:00 PM
True, but what MUScoopers did not take into account was how the MU coach was going to use Lockett. The same may go for Reinhardt. His job may be to rebound and defend the four position and not to score. Having to defend bigger fours may take a toll on his offensive game.
You have a good point. Lockett came in with a lot of fan fare, but It turned out that Lockett played the game at a slower pace than the rest of our team that year, so Buzz made him into a glue guy. He turned out to be excellent in that role and without him we probably would not have gone as far as we did.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on July 13, 2016, 12:07:41 PM
Not to be a stretch four.
I was talking about from a scoring perspective, not playing time or positions.