Probably one of the greatest athletes ever across all sports. Only seen highlights of him fighting but my dad would always say how he was one of the quickest athletes he's ever seen.
His interactions with Howard Cosell were legendary. More appreciated for his political activism now than in his youth. RIP.
This news obviously isn't stunning, as Ali had been in declining health for years, but it's still a punch to the gut when an all-time icon dies.
One of my saddest sports memories is that of the 1980 Ali-Holmes fight. Ali was on the cover of SI looking trim and athletic, and the hype led my friends and I to trudge to the Arena and pay $20 to watch the fight on close-caption. Twenty bucks was a TON of money for a college kid 36 years ago! We were so psyched. But Ali, who was 38, looked 10 years older than that. And even though the in-his-prime Holmes obviously took pity on his former mentor, Ali's corner stopped the beating after 10 rounds. It was a terrible way for a champion to go out.
For those who haven't already seen When We Were Kings, the 1996 documentary about the Ali-Foreman fight, find it and watch it. There have been dozens of fine boxing films, and that's one of the best.
GOAT
https://www.youtube.com/v/WVNFycGb8_c
Here's a very high quality video of a full Ali fight when he was still really young. Man did he just mentally antagonize his opponents.
https://youtu.be/efBcVKmbLs8 (https://youtu.be/efBcVKmbLs8)
rip cassius clay. he competed when boxing was for real and had an international following. probably one of the last of the few who made boxing the sport it WAS. of course there are some behind the scenes things that occurred that many are not privy to, but CC rose above those and delivered quite a polarizing personality
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 05:07:37 AM
rip cassius clay. he competed when boxing was for real and had an international following. probably one of the last of the few who made boxing the sport it WAS. of course there are some behind the scenes things that occurred that many are not privy to, but CC rose above those and delivered quite a polarizing personality
Cassius Clay died 50 years ago.
It strikes me how young he was to have been in the spotlight so long. Obviously he had the effects of Parkinson's in '96 at the olympics but I can't believe he was only 54 then. RIP
Quote from: warriorchick on June 04, 2016, 07:05:01 AM
Cassius Clay died 50 years ago.
Yeah why call him by his former name?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 07:47:50 AM
Yeah why call him by his former name?
I think that answer is fairly obvious
Quote from: tower912 on June 03, 2016, 11:51:04 PM
His interactions with Howard Cosell were legendary. RIP.
Simply priceless.
He ranks among the all time great athletes. He had two distinct phases of his career. In the first he truly "floated like a butterfly and stung like a bee". Then he had the controversial layoff for 3 years due to refusal to serve in the military,"I ain't got no quarrel with them Viet Cong," was his famous quote. When he came back he relied on brains and tactics. What was amazing to me was how long he was at the top of the boxing game.
I remember meeting him a couple of times. The first at LaGuardia Airport in the early 80s at LGA airport with his wife at the time Veronica. He was in the American Airlines cab line like a common person, he had some financial difficulties and no longer had his entourage. I saw him about 15 years later at the American Airlines admirals club at LAX airport. The early stages of the Parkinson's had clearly set in.
In the days prior to cable, internet, cell phones etc, he may have been the most visible person in the whole world. Although he was not universally loved at the time. The interviews with Howard Cosell were legendary. Funny and Quick witted. He truly had a sharp mind.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 05:07:37 AM
rip cassius clay. he competed when boxing was for real and had an international following. probably one of the last of the few who made boxing the sport it WAS. of course there are some behind the scenes things that occurred that many are not privy to, but CC rose above those and delivered quite a polarizing personality
Yes, rocket, Cassius sure was one articulate colored man. Very unthreatening. Not at all like that uppity n-----, Ali.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 09:17:26 AM
Yes, rocket, Cassius sure was one articulate colored man. Very unthreatening. Not at all like that uppity n-----, Ali.
Pathetic on your part. Way to make it political....again.
Just pathetic.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 09:50:06 AM
Pathetic on your part. Way to make it political....again.
Just pathetic.
Naw, Rocket started it. He knew what he was doing.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 04, 2016, 10:12:37 AM
Naw, Rocket started it. He knew what he was doing.
MU82's language was not only not necessary, it was political in nature. It was pathetic.
Rocket fired the initial shot, 82 fired back. Disappointed in both.
We lost a true sports icon - his color or religion don't belong in this thread. RIP Muhammad Ali.
Love this photo. Love the story behind it even more. Neil Leifer, the young photographer, had gotten there early to get set up in the place he wanted to be. However, he got kicked out of it by a senior Sports Illustrated photographer who was given first dibs on whatever spot he wanted. In the end, he wound up shooting one of the most famous sports photos of all time. And the guy who kicked him out of his original position? It's the guy you see between Ali's legs.
(http://www.slate.com/content/dam/slate/articles/sports/sports_nut/2015/05/150522_SNUT_AliListon-Color.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg)
Even more remarkable is that back then, action color photography required a lot of additional lighting that took time between shots to recharge. Unlike the black and white photographers there, he had one chance to get this picture.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 05:07:37 AM
rip cassius clay. he competed when boxing was for real and had an international following. probably one of the last of the few who made boxing the sport it WAS. of course there are some behind the scenes things that occurred that many are not privy to, but CC rose above those and delivered quite a polarizing personality
Don't you remember what he did to Ernie Terell when he called him Cassius Clay?
WHAT'S MY NAME!?
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 10:43:50 AM
Don't you remember what he did to Ernie Terell when he called him Cassius Clay?
WHAT'S MY NAME!?
Thank you. I was trying to remember who that was. Newspapers when he was sent to jail continued to call him Clay even though he had legally changed his name at the time. It was an insult with bigoted overtones.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 10:43:50 AM
Don't you remember what he did to Ernie Terell when he called him Cassius Clay?
WHAT'S MY NAME!?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ernie-terrell-boxer-who-won-a-world-title-but-suffered-a-savage-beating-after-inadvertently-calling-9947176.html
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 10:46:49 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ernie-terrell-boxer-who-won-a-world-title-but-suffered-a-savage-beating-after-inadvertently-calling-9947176.html
So Terrell wasn't doing it on purpose. Others were.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 10:48:47 AM
So Terrell wasn't doing it on purpose. Others were.
You may want to read the article again
(http://indy100.independent.co.uk/image/12258-14f683d.gif)
I did. Terrell wasn't calling him "Clay" with intent to ridicule. He was doing it out of habit.
Newspapers, etc. were doing it intentionally. They refused to call him by his legal name.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 10:46:49 AM
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/ernie-terrell-boxer-who-won-a-world-title-but-suffered-a-savage-beating-after-inadvertently-calling-9947176.html
I have to imagine that to be a boxer, you have to mentally hype yourself up any ways you can and try to give yourself a mental edge. Terell, after initially accidentally calling him Clay, decided to do it again and again. Ali decided to use that as motivation for himself. Unfortunately for Terell, Ali just happened to be the greatest boxer of all time and the most mentally strong athlete across all sports.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 10:53:01 AM
I did. Terrell wasn't calling him "Clay" with intent to ridicule. He was doing it out of habit.
Newspapers, etc. were doing it intentionally. They refused to call him by his legal name.
You may want to read it a third time
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 10:55:38 AM
I have to imagine that to be a boxer, you have to mentally hype yourself up any ways you can and try to give yourself a mental edge. Terell, after initially accidentally calling him Clay, decided to do it again and again. Ali decided to use that as motivation for himself. Unfortunately for Terell, Ali just happened to be the greatest boxer of all time and the most mentally strong athlete across all sports.
DING DING DING
Ah I see. I read the initial part.
Boxing was the every man sport back then. No PPV, the fights were on ABC's Wide World of Sports on a Saturday afternoon or Saturday night. I remember Earnie Shavers taking on Ali when I was kid, still think Shavers won that fight as do many others. It was equal access for anyone with a TV and a set of rabbit ears. Different times for sure.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 11:25:34 AM
Boxing was the every man sport back then. No PPV, the fights were on ABC's Wide World of Sports on a Saturday afternoon or Saturday night. I remember Earnie Shavers taking on Ali when I was kid, still think Shavers won that fight as do many others. It was equal access for anyone with a TV and a set of rabbit ears. Different times for sure.
Funny you say that because after Ali, Shavers is my favorite fighter. Two completely different styles. Ali could move and Shavers just hit hard as all hell.
It was starting though. The Rumble in the Jungle and the Thrilla in Manilla were both only on closed circuit. Same with the Duran/Leonard fights. You are correct that you could still catch some other matches....like the first time I saw Mike Tyson was on WWOS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRPn7R_6r4o
Ali was many years ahead of his time. He understood that sports was meant to be entertaining. Man was he entertaining. I had a big Ali poster in my room as a kid. And in later life, showed his wonderful true character in his quiet charity work. True American hero.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 11:37:53 AM
It was starting though. The Rumble in the Jungle and the Thrilla in Manilla were both only on closed circuit. Same with the Duran/Leonard fights. You are correct that you could still catch some other matches....like the first time I saw Mike Tyson was on WWOS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRPn7R_6r4o
Beat me to it. I think it can be argued that Muhammad Ali actually ushered in the PPV era.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on June 04, 2016, 11:30:33 AM
Funny you say that because after Ali, Shavers is my favorite fighter. Two completely different styles. Ali could move and Shavers just hit hard as all hell.
I honestly don't know if any man on the planet punched harder than Shavers. I'm sure some boxing aficionados will know better than I, but that guy was an amazing puncher.
Quote from: jsglow on June 04, 2016, 11:38:51 AM
Ali was many years ahead of his time. He understood that sports was meant to be entertaining. Man was he entertaining. I had a big Ali poster in my room as a kid. And in later life, showed his wonderful true character in his quiet charity work. True American hero.
+1
Quote from: warriorchick on June 04, 2016, 11:41:35 AM
Beat me to it. I think it can be argued that Muhammad Ali actually ushered in the PPV era.
Agree. Boxing has never been the same since.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on June 04, 2016, 07:55:00 AM
I think that answer is fairly obvious
I'm not afraid to say why. Only one segment of the population still called him Clay - racist whiteys!
Quote from: brandx on June 04, 2016, 11:44:29 AM
I'm not afraid to say why. Only one segment of the population still called him Clay - racist whiteys!
PATHETIC.
Why is this crap allowed? You may want to look at some of the stories today that refer to him as his former name, and the authors are not racist...or white for that matter. You, are truly pathetic.
While I think brand should modify his post, I don't see many authors calling him Cassius Clay in the same manner that rocket did - the present tense.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 04, 2016, 11:41:35 AM
Beat me to it. I think it can be argued that Muhammad Ali actually ushered in the PPV era.
You could be right, but I remember PPV becoming prevelant during the Leonard, Hagler, Hearns era
This is why we can't have nice stuff.
https://www.youtube.com/v/ID3-vqADnRY
More:
QuoteWhy should they ask me to put on a uniform and go 10,000 miles from home and drop bombs and bullets on Brown people in Vietnam while so-called Negro people in Louisville are treated like dogs and denied simple human rights?
No I'm not going 10,000 miles from home to help murder and burn another poor nation simply to continue the domination of white slave masters of the darker people the world over. This is the day when such evils must come to an end. I have been warned that to take such a stand would cost me millions of dollars.
But I have said it once and I will say it again. The real enemy of my people is here. I will not disgrace my religion, my people or myself by becoming a tool to enslave those who are fighting for their own justice, freedom and equality.
If I thought the war was going to bring freedom and equality to 22 million of my people they wouldn't have to draft me, I'd join tomorrow. I have nothing to lose by standing up for my beliefs. So I'll go to jail, so what? We've been in jail for 400 years.
The guy was incredibly intelligent person, without much of a formal education. I'm sure he could still teach us a thing or two about being a dignified, reasoned, self-respecting human.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 11:51:03 AM
While I think brand should modify his post, I don't see many authors calling him Cassius Clay in the same manner that rocket did - the present tense.
You're saying what Rocket did is at the same level, or worse than what Brandx just did? Simply, wow. I would re-read what Rocket said, again. Plenty of high praise for the man, unlike Brandx who lobs racial nonsense with ZERO repercussions.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 11:59:22 AM
You're saying what Rocket did is at the same level, or worse than what Brandx just did? Simply, wow. I would re-read what Rocket said, again. Plenty of high praise for the man, unlike Brandx who lobs racial nonsense with ZERO repercussions.
I never said that. I never claimed to know rocket's motivations. I simply find it disrespectful.
Quote from: brandx on June 04, 2016, 11:52:18 AM
You could be right, but I remember PPV becoming prevelant during the Leonard, Hagler, Hearns era
By PPV I would also include pre-cable times where folks went to the movie theater to watch, and Ali and his promoters invented that for all practical purposes.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 12:08:17 PM
I never said that. I never claimed to know rocket's motivations. I simply find it disrespectful.
Fair enough. I find Brandx's comments disgusting, pathetic, racist, and completely out of bounds.
Ali in the suite with Shula and a few of my NFL counterparts back in 2000.
(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13323779_10154375839706264_5967681079241144870_o.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 09:50:06 AM
Pathetic on your part. Way to make it political....again.
Insinuating that somebody intentionally used a racist reference is not politics. It is calling somebody out.
Pathetic on your part to leap to Boo-Boo's defense AND equally pathetic to attempt to bring politics into it AND doubly pathetic to act outraged -- or as one Scooper might say,
fauxraged.
That's a Classic Chicos hat trick. Congrats!
Quote from: warriorchick on June 04, 2016, 12:15:05 PM
By PPV I would also include pre-cable times where folks went to the movie theater to watch, and Ali and his promoters invented that for all practical purposes.
I saw a Leonard-Duran fight that way in the old Milwaukee Auditorium. Unfortunately, it was the "no mas" fight so it only went eight rounds.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 11:47:46 AM
PATHETIC.
Why is this crap allowed? You may want to look at some of the stories today that refer to him as his former name, and the authors are not racist...or white for that matter. You, are truly pathetic.
"And Chicos - STFU".
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 01:48:34 PM
Insinuating that somebody intentionally used a racist reference is not politics. It is calling somebody out.
Pathetic on your part to leap to Boo-Boo's defense AND equally pathetic to attempt to bring politics into it AND doubly pathetic to act outraged -- or as one Scooper might say, fauxraged.
That's a Classic Chicos hat trick. Congrats!
Exactly.
Racism is not political. It is a human failing.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 01:48:34 PM
Insinuating that somebody intentionally used a racist reference is not politics. It is calling somebody out.
Pathetic on your part to leap to Boo-Boo's defense AND equally pathetic to attempt to bring politics into it AND doubly pathetic to act outraged -- or as one Scooper might say, fauxraged.
That's a Classic Chicos hat trick. Congrats!
He called Rocket a racist....that is pathetic and ridiculous. You, had to play the race card, also pathetic and ridiculous.
Please show us what was RACIST or RACIAL about Rocket's comments. Please.
The first person to bring race into it? MIKE MU82. FACT!!
Disgusting.
Then Brandx follows up by saying that Rocket is a racist, because only racist white folks use the name Cassius Clay. Wow. Not only wrong and stupid (which is par for the course with Brand), but Brandx doesn't know Rocket Surgeon from Adam or anyone else, yet he claims he is a racist? Awesome.
PATHETIC. Both of you. Absolutely pathetic and disgusting. But you two can't help yourselves.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 03:12:22 PM
He called Rocket a racist....that is pathetic and ridiculous. You, had to play the race card, also pathetic and ridiculous.
Please show us what was RACIST or RACIAL about Rocket's comments. Please.
The first person to bring race into it? MIKE MU82. FACT!!
Disgusting.
Then Brandx follows up by saying that Rocket is a racist, because only racist white folks use the name Cassius Clay. Wow. Not only wrong and stupid (which is par for the course with Brand), but Brandx doesn't know Rocket Surgeon from Adam or anyone else, yet he claims he is a racist? Awesome.
PATHETIC. Both of you. Absolutely pathetic and disgusting. But you two can't help yourselves.
fauxrage
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 03:18:50 PM
fauxrage
When someone is calling someone a racist, there is nothing fauxrage about it at all. That's nuclear.
I'll ask again, who was the FIRST person to make this racial?
FACT = MU82. No one else, but MU82. He just can't help himself.
As for Brandx and his ridiculous comments about who calls him Cassius....yep, all these people here are "racist whiteys" (Brandx's words)....good one Brand, you really nailed it again.
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23cassius&src=typd
https://twitter.com/search?q=%23cassiusclay&src=typd
No, it wasn't racist, but MU82 and Brandx find it in so much....just pathetic.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CkG4uHJUgAA66vg.jpg:large)
Politics is about one person or group of people using power over another person or group of people. I submit that you cannot have a thread about Ali without bring politics into it, because his whole life was about standing up to power- whether that involved becoming a Black Muslim (on the day after he became Heavyweight Champion of the world) , changing his name, or refusing to step forward when his name was called at his draft induction.
I can't begin to communicate the effect these actions by a blustering , swaggering black man had on certain white people, except to point out that 50 years later, old reactionaries like Surgeon are blowing their dog whistles by referring to him as "Clay" and fools like Chico are arguing that there is nothing racial about such a comment.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 04, 2016, 03:30:00 PM
Politics is about one person or group of people using power over another person or group of people. I submit that you cannot have a thread about Ali without bring politics into it, because his whole life was about standing up to power- whether that involved becoming a Black Muslim (on the day after he became Heavyweight Champion of the world) , changing his name, or refusing to step forward when his name was called at his draft induction.
I can't begin to communicate the effect these actions by a blustering , swaggering black man had on certain white people, except to point out that 50 years later, old reactionaries like Surgeon are blowing their dog whistles by referring to him as "Clay" and fools like Chico are arguing that there is nothing racial about such a comment.
There was nothing racial about his comment, just as millions of people today saying RIP to Cassius Clay aren't racists. You don't seem to be able to get that through your head. Am I in denial that racism was part of Ali's life? Of course not. But that doesn't mean for one nanosecond any comments made here or people saying Cassius Clay are racist or making racial statements. You guys went there, no one else did. You can pretend to use "dog whistle" which is what you guys do about EVERYTHING when something comes up from someone else you don't agree with. It's so terrific. "Hey everyone, he's using code words, dog whisper...just trust us, we have the Rosetta stone to make such claims as to what those codes are".
PATHETIC. Not everything is racial, even if you, MU82, and Brandx want to make it that way. What's worse, you guys took it to a level that absolutely RACIST. You had to pretend to find something that wasn't there, and then went nuclear with your own words. Disgusting.
Mutaman, how's MU hoops looking this year? Thoughts on Wojo? Buffalo Grove?
To quote a wise man: "Chicos- STFU".
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 03:35:21 PM
There was nothing racial about his comment, just as millions of people today saying RIP to Cassius Clay aren't racists.
Where are these "millions of people saying RIP to Cassius Clay?" I understand your fauxrage at calling rocket racist, but I don't see a bunch of people calling him by a name he ditched 50 years ago.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 04, 2016, 03:38:12 PM
To quote a wise man: "Chicos- STFU".
(http://s33.postimg.org/57miecl33/myles.jpg)
RIP to a true legend. He was not the greatest ever by any means however he brought boxing to a golden age and was on top the whole time.
Growing up like I did, where every guy and most girls have been boxers, he was a huge idol. I used to imagine going in for weigh in like he did against sonny Liston the first time.
What he did was inspire many fighters to believe they could be something more than just athletes or divas especially since fighters have long had a rep as being punch drunk fools.
"He who is not courageous enough to take risks will accomplish nothing in life." -Muhammad Ali
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 05:07:37 AM
rip cassius clay. he competed when boxing was for real and had an international following. probably one of the last of the few who made boxing the sport it WAS. of course there are some behind the scenes things that occurred that many are not privy to, but CC rose above those and delivered quite a polarizing personality
Boxing is still massive outside the US. In Asia, Europe, and South America its second to only soccer. Go to Louis Arias (MU alum) fight tonight in Milwaukee and you can see first hand that boxing is still very real.
I always enjoyed this from Billy Crystal....15 rounds
https://vimeo.com/169300354
Crystal will be eulogizing Ali this week at the funeral. Worth the watch.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 11:51:03 AM
While I think brand should modify his post, I don't see many authors calling him Cassius Clay in the same manner that rocket did - the present tense.
boy oh boy! you guys are really reading into my post-honestly. i was using the name cassius clay totally out of respect for his former name. i wonder if some on this board even remember him before ali. but holy schnikees guys. seems like you're always looking for the worst, send out the whistle and all the rest pile on. i forgot about this post and just came back to it and frankly i am really surprised
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 03:55:43 PM
boy oh boy! you guys are really reading into my post-honestly. i was using the name cassius clay totally out of respect for his former name.
I kinda figured, but it's not really respectful if it's not his name.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 04, 2016, 03:30:00 PM
Politics is about one person or group of people using power over another person or group of people. I submit that you cannot have a thread about Ali without bring politics into it, because his whole life was about standing up to power- whether that involved becoming a Black Muslim (on the day after he became Heavyweight Champion of the world) , changing his name, or refusing to step forward when his name was called at his draft induction.
I can't begin to communicate the effect these actions by a blustering , swaggering black man had on certain white people, except to point out that 50 years later, old reactionaries like Surgeon are blowing their dog whistles by referring to him as "Clay" and fools like Chico are arguing that there is nothing racial about such a comment.
your first paragraph was excellent, then you had to jump back down into your chit hole with the second one. wow-i thought we lost you when the pol thread was eliminated. all you do is attack. if you are trying to find a release for your anger, this ain't the place
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 03:55:43 PM
boy oh boy! you guys are really reading into my post-honestly. i was using the name cassius clay totally out of respect for his former name. i wonder if some on this board even remember him before ali. but holy schnikees guys. seems like you're always looking for the worst, send out the whistle and all the rest pile on. i forgot about this post and just came back to it and frankly i am really surprised
Considering the three clowns....I wouldn't be surprised one iota. Sad, is all it is. I think 99% if not more knew there was zero malice at all, but some people just can't help themselves and are going to find something. It's not what is said, but who says the what. In this case, because it was you they hear or read things that aren't there and just make stuff up. Absolutely pathetic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 03:58:58 PM
I kinda figured, but it's not really respectful if it's not his name.
i really did not intend on creating such a "firestorm". i actually think the name cassius is pretty cool and obviously unique. he was a guy who was hard not to like despite his politics. i think most people either forgave him for his war dodging and after his explanation as jesmu pointed out, many(maybe even most) were probably were saying to themselves-"right on"!! he was very much respected for not only his boxing, but standing up for himself and others with his beliefs, saying what many others were thinking. he brought respect to the muslim religion, the african-americans along with many others and rightly so. he was the ultimate ambassador
Parkinson's...what a dreadful disease. My mom suffers from it and Alzheimers...not a good combo. You see the pictures of Ali in the last 3 years and it is heartbreaking.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 04:15:40 PM
i really did not intend on creating such a "firestorm". i actually think the name cassius is pretty cool and obviously unique. he was a guy who was hard not to like despite his politics. i think most people either forgave him for his war dodging and after his explanation as jesmu pointed out, many(maybe even most) were probably were saying to themselves-"right on"!! he was very much respected for not only his boxing, but standing up for himself and others with his beliefs, saying what many others were thinking. he brought respect to the muslim religion, the african-americans along with many others and rightly so. he was the ultimate ambassador
You may not have intended any disrespect to Ali by calling him Cassius Clay but he would surely be offended by you calling him what he considered his "slave name". Ernie Terrell referred to him as Cassius and he beat him to a pulp, asking him "what's my name?" with every punch he landed. So if you truly want to honor him maybe calling him Cassius isn't the best way.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2016, 05:05:46 PM
You may not have intended any disrespect to Ali by calling him Cassius Clay but he would surely be offended by you calling him what he considered his "slave name". Ernie Terrell referred to him as Cassius and he beat him to a pulp, asking him "what's my name?" with every punch he landed. So if you truly want to honor him maybe calling him Cassius isn't the best way.
as i found out the hard way...must have been that turnip truck i was born on ;D however, i do not believe i deserved the pile on and the catcalls of racism. it's like they are just waiting for a slip up and then WHAMO! then they walk away feeling good about themselves as they are soooo much better than us "racists" MU82-i thought you were a little bit above that, but never let a good crisis go to waste enn'a? the others=par
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 03:55:43 PM
boy oh boy! you guys are really reading into my post-honestly. i was using the name cassius clay totally out of respect for his former name. i wonder if some on this board even remember him before ali. but holy schnikees guys. seems like you're always looking for the worst, send out the whistle and all the rest pile on. i forgot about this post and just came back to it and frankly i am really surprised
rocket:
I am glad you checked back in to defend yourself rather than the rest of us having to read more blah-blah-blather from the sanctimoniously fauxraged one. I do hope he calls me PATHETIC a few more times, though. Talk about a badge of honor! It's kind of like Trump calling me PATHETIC; it would mean I'm definitely doing something right.
Although I didn't personally know Ali, I think I know him well enough from reading books about him, seeing him interviewed hundreds of times, etc, to know that he would not take it as a sign of respect that anybody in 2016 (or anytime in the last 40+ years) would call him Clay. Ali hated his slave name, he verbally attacked people who used it and his opponents often called him "Clay" to get a rise out of him.
Unlike Mr. Fauxrage, you seem like a genuine guy, so we should take you at your word that you didn't mean any disrespect by calling him by his slave name. So I do apologize for saying you intentionally meant to dishonor Ali.
I do hope you have learned from this, though. When Kareem dies, you might not want to say how much you respected ol' Lew Alcindor.
As for Mr. Fauxrage, you are one of maybe a half-dozen Scoopers who doesn't take him for a fool and a tool -- and smart money would probably bet the "under" on that number.
Chicos just views that as a sign that he is right about everything and the rest of us are wrong -- and that it's all one big conspiracy against him, too -- but I do hope Yogi realizes how very lucky he is to have you on this board, Boo-Boo.
Interesting titles of today's programming on ESPN...volumes 1 & 2
(http://a66.tinypic.com/14tx4w5.jpg)
(http://a65.tinypic.com/2hcm1kk.jpg)
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 07:32:31 PM
rocket:
I am glad you checked back in to defend yourself rather than the rest of us having to read more blah-blah-blather from the sanctimoniously fauxraged one. I do hope he calls me PATHETIC a few more times, though. Talk about a badge of honor! It's kind of like Trump calling me PATHETIC; it would mean I'm definitely doing something right.
Although I didn't personally know Ali, I think I know him well enough from reading books about him, seeing him interviewed hundreds of times, etc, to know that he would not take it as a sign of respect that anybody in 2016 (or anytime in the last 40+ years) would call him Clay. Ali hated his slave name, he verbally attacked people who used it and his opponents often called him "Clay" to get a rise out of him.
Unlike Mr. Fauxrage, you seem like a genuine guy, so we should take you at your word that you didn't mean any disrespect by calling him by his slave name. So I do apologize for saying you intentionally meant to dishonor Ali.
I do hope you have learned from this, though. When Kareem dies, you might not want to say how much you respected ol' Lew Alcindor.
As for Mr. Fauxrage, you are one of maybe a half-dozen Scoopers who doesn't take him for a fool and a tool -- and smart money would probably bet the "under" on that number.
Chicos just views that as a sign that he is right about everything and the rest of us are wrong -- and that it's all one big conspiracy against him, too -- but I do hope Yogi realizes how very lucky he is to have you on this board, Boo-Boo.
i appreciate the acknowledgement and recognition of my unintentional reference to ali by his old name.
as for chico (aka "yogi") coming to my rescue, he is like anyone else here who chimes in/lends support to another when they recognize something to be out of line. it's refreshing to see/know that someone has your back when they know exactly what i meant. chicos is just a very principled guy who likes to keep ya'll on your toes.
that aside, it is outrageous when the "r" word is tossed around so loosely. i highly doubt we have any real neo's or kkk people here. if there were, he/she wouldn't get to far. it is an insult to have some here try to label others with that word. it's actually showing a "hate" or a disrespect to that person in the form of trying to shut them down even if it's not about politics. one just wants to rid them from the board b/c one disagrees with them at times.
as for mr jabbar, if he is referred to as "lew" pre 1971, is that o.k., or racist or disrespectful? as for mr. ali, i never knew his birth name evoked such outrage. as opposed to it being a footnote in his life. but hey, who ever said we stop learning chit after the half century mark is an ignoramous
The never ending senario:
1. Chico and Surgeon will blow their dog whistles.
2. Chico and Surgeon will get called out.
3. Here's the difference- Chico will then say that there was nothing wrong with what he posted and claim that many others have said the same thing. BooBoo wil profess ignorance and say he never meant to offend anyone. (Hard to believe anyone alive back in the day would be ignorant of the meaning of using the name "Clay").
4. Chico and Surgeon will then lash out at others for "playing the race card".
I'm sure there are many others that are better written, but i found the USAToday's 'fight by fight' chronology really fascinating. In first place is the iconic photo Chick posted-----the rematch both happened in Maine and was attended by less than 2,500 people. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/). Go figure.
as for the other stuff in this thread......
- Bowie's remembrance thread turned into a conversation about strip clubs. Beautiful and well done.
- Prince's remembrance thread turned into a great conversation about guitarists then turned a bit odd when celeb/genius drug use/abuse was projected into something larger.
- Ali's remembrance thread? turned into a hypocritical cesspool of ignorance.
Well done - can't wait until some other icon dies!
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 07:32:31 PM
rocket:
Unlike Mr. Fauxrage, you seem like a genuine guy, so we should take you at your word that you didn't mean any disrespect by calling him by his slave name. So I do apologize for saying you intentionally meant to dishonor Ali.
I do hope you have learned from this, though. When Kareem dies, you might not want to say how much you respected ol' Lew Alcindor.
As for Mr. Fauxrage, you are one of maybe a half-dozen Scoopers who doesn't take him for a fool and a tool -- and smart money would probably bet the "under" on that number.
Chicos just views that as a sign that he is right about everything and the rest of us are wrong -- and that it's all one big conspiracy against him, too -- but I do hope Yogi realizes how very lucky he is to have you on this board, Boo-Boo.
I didn't come to anyone's rescue other than sanity and just good human standards. Calling someone racist when you don't know them or when that person did nothing of the kind is just amazing. How you don't see this is quite alarming..
YOU, and ONLY YOU introduced race into this. It's what you run too. You should apologize, but that is beneath you.
As far as a genuine person, I couldn't be more genuine in trying to just do the right thing here....which was to challenge you and your nonsense. That was deplorable what you and Brandx did. Deplorable. But it's your default setting. You can't help yourself. You really can't.
I guess ESPN and Disney are racist for using the two shows they have on today titled Cassius Clay. Go figure...start the letter writing campaign.
Quote from: rocket surgeon on June 04, 2016, 08:09:14 PM
i appreciate the acknowledgement and recognition of my unintentional reference to ali by his old name.
as for chico (aka "yogi") coming to my rescue, he is like anyone else here who chimes in/lends support to another when they recognize something to be out of line. it's refreshing to see/know that someone has your back when they know exactly what i meant. chicos is just a very principled guy who likes to keep ya'll on your toes.
that aside, it is outrageous when the "r" word is tossed around so loosely. i highly doubt we have any real neo's or kkk people here. if there were, he/she wouldn't get to far. it is an insult to have some here try to label others with that word. it's actually showing a "hate" or a disrespect to that person in the form of trying to shut them down even if it's not about politics. one just wants to rid them from the board b/c one disagrees with them at times.
as for mr jabbar, if he is referred to as "lew" pre 1971, is that o.k., or racist or disrespectful? as for mr. ali, i never knew his birth name evoked such outrage. as opposed to it being a footnote in his life. but hey, who ever said we stop learning chit after the half century mark is an ignoramous
Hey Boo Boo, thanks.
Sincerely,
Yogi
Notice Mike couldn't apologize. So amazing, isn't. But he gave you a nice lecture and also decided how people should think, while slamming others that do the same...irony.
Quote from: Mutaman on June 04, 2016, 08:15:29 PM
The never ending senario:
1. Chico and Surgeon will blow their dog whistles.
2. Chico and Surgeon will get called out.
3. Here's the difference- Chico will then say that there was nothing wrong with what he posted and claim that many others have said the same thing. BooBoo wil profess ignorance and say he never meant to offend anyone. (Hard to believe anyone alive back in the day would be ignorant of the meaning of using the name "Clay").
4. Chico and Surgeon will then lash out at others for "playing the race card".
There was nothing wrong. One person made this about race....Mike MU82. Then another made a flat out racial statement....Brandx. Then a third clown, a Badger at that, you came in to read people's minds and pretend to know what people think.
(http://s33.postimg.org/57miecl33/myles.jpg)
MU, what do you think this year.....Buffalo Grove...thoughts?
Quote from: naginiF on June 04, 2016, 09:07:52 PM
I'm sure there are many others that are better written, but i found the USAToday's 'fight by fight' chronology really fascinating. In first place is the iconic photo Chick posted-----the rematch both happened in Maine and was attended by less than 2,500 people. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/). Go figure.
as for the other stuff in this thread......
- Bowie's remembrance thread turned into a conversation about strip clubs. Beautiful and well done.
- Prince's remembrance thread turned into a great conversation about guitarists then turned a bit odd when celeb/genius drug use/abuse was projected into something larger.
- Ali's remembrance thread? turned into a hypocritical cesspool of ignorance.
Well done - can't wait until some other icon dies!
It's sad how many great musicians we have lost in their prime or well before the average citizen. Shame.
Ali, great man. Too bad the same idiots that play the race card and turn it into a cesspool of ignorance (Mutaman, MU82, Brandx) had to go there. Shame, but none of us should be surprised.
And now we find out that Disney \ ESPN are "racist whiteys" to use Brandx's terms, because they've called their programming Cassius Clay. :o
Chico -
i'm reasonably sure that rocket is a good guy and didn't realize that referring to Ali in 2016 as Cassius Clay is out of line and racist. He's apologized for his ignorance and it"s all good.
You, on the other hand, have become totally unhinged. Take a deep breath and stop digging the hole - you're up to your neck already.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2016, 07:32:31 PM
rocket:
I am glad you checked back in to defend yourself rather than the rest of us having to read more blah-blah-blather from the sanctimoniously fauxraged one. I do hope he calls me PATHETIC a few more times, though. Talk about a badge of honor! It's kind of like Trump calling me PATHETIC; it would mean I'm definitely doing something right.
Another example, just can't keep politics out of it. Shame.
Rules that don't apply to Mike
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 10:25:05 PM
Another example, just can't keep politics out of it. Shame.
Rules that don't apply to Mike
Did you report the post to the moderator? They are usually responsive.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 09:13:56 PM
Notice Mike couldn't apologize.
Me to rocket a few posts ago:
So I do apologize for saying you intentionally meant to dishonor Ali.Me to Chicos right now:
You are a liar, as usual. Also, I am disappointed I went from PATHETIC to merely deplorable. Come on Mr. Trump, you can fauxrage louder than that.
Chicos, you are a caricature of yourself, and a joke to just about everyone on this board.
Now post some other obtuse reference to Cassius Clay as "proof" that Ali would consider it a sign of "respect" that people call him the slave name he disavowed a half-century ago.
Oh, and some of us have to work for a living in the early morning, so I'm going to bed now. I don't want you to be fauxraged that I'm not responding immediately to what's sure to be another Classic Chicos post. I know ... how PATHETIC of me to try to get 6 hours sleep.
Nighty-night!
"The hardest I was ever hit was by a Montana Cowboy"
-Ali
http://helenair.com/sports/other/roundup-cowboy-a-tough-foe-for-cassius-clay/article_baaee010-bc40-5e68-a086-cafdb87cc529.html
Quote from: naginiF on June 04, 2016, 09:07:52 PM
I'm sure there are many others that are better written, but i found the USAToday's 'fight by fight' chronology really fascinating. In first place is the iconic photo Chick posted-----the rematch both happened in Maine and was attended by less than 2,500 people. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/2016/06/04/muhammad-ali-fight-by-fight-career/85341622/). Go figure.
as for the other stuff in this thread......
- Bowie's remembrance thread turned into a conversation about strip clubs. Beautiful and well done.
- Prince's remembrance thread turned into a great conversation about guitarists then turned a bit odd when celeb/genius drug use/abuse was projected into something larger.
- Ali's remembrance thread? turned into a hypocritical cesspool of ignorance.
Well done - can't wait until some other icon dies!
That's funny. I was gonna post the same thing.
At least athletes get to rest when they die. Rock stars/Rappers work harder than ever after they are dead. They release albums at a much faster clip than when they were still kickin'.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 04, 2016, 10:55:57 PM
"The hardest I was ever hit was by a Montana Cowboy"
-Ali
http://helenair.com/sports/other/roundup-cowboy-a-tough-foe-for-cassius-clay/article_baaee010-bc40-5e68-a086-cafdb87cc529.html
would have been a better story if it weren't written by some RACIST hillbilly from montana. when is someone gonna tell him CC changed his name to muhammed ali hey
Understand that Bryant Gumbel will be among the eulogizers, very interesting. Most of my Afro-American friends have a deep disregard for Bryant for a host of reasons. Glad to see that Mohammad held him in such high regard. Both Bryant and Mohammad were ahead of the power curve.
Also, it is too bad that some of my MUScoop friends are behind the curve.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 05, 2016, 06:28:08 AM
Understand that Bryant Gumbel will be among the eulogizers, very interesting. Most of my Afro-American friends have a deep disregard for Bryant for a host of reasons. Glad to see that Mohammad held him in such high regard. Both Bryant and Mohammad were ahead of the power curve.
Also, it is too bad that some of my MUScoop friends are behind the curve.
Please, share with us whom is behind the curve since you know scoopers so well. I'm sure you know about their friends, their hiring practices, their charitable works, etc. Please, share.....bequeath us your knowledge.
By the way, you might want to get up on that curve....the term "Afro-American" is not used anymore. I would think your "Afro-American" friends would tell you this.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2016, 10:17:06 AM
Please, share with us whom is behind the curve since you know scoopers so well. I'm sure you know about their friends, their hiring practices, their charitable works, etc. Please, share.....bequeath us your knowledge.
By the way, you might want to get up on that curve....the term "Afro-American" is not used anymore. I would think your "Afro-American" friends would tell you this.
Who, not whom.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2016, 10:17:06 AM
Please, share with us whom is behind the curve since you know scoopers so well. I'm sure you know about their friends, their hiring practices, their charitable works, etc. Please, share.....bequeath us your knowledge.
By the way, you might want to get up on that curve....the term "Afro-American" is not used anymore. I would think your "Afro-American" friends would tell you this.
For one, you.
My black friends are much too kind to make an issue of an irrelevant distinction because they know where I'm coming from. Furthermore, they tend to be from my generation and they understand what Mohammad Ali stood for and against.
Afro-American as in Italian-American, Irish-American and Mexican-American. If we knew what country the original "slave" came from we could be more specific.
Furthermore, Mohammad was a trailblazer in the African-American community, is that better, with his conversion to Islam.
Islam is doing wonders for hundreds of thousands, if not more, black Americans. Their work in the inner cities to combat violence, drugs, and alcohol is to be commended and Mohammad Ali was an important part of the movement.
Thank you Mohammad Ali for putting your love behind this religion.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 05, 2016, 03:04:16 PM
For one, you.
My black friends are much too kind to make an issue of an irrelevant distinction because they know where I'm coming from. Furthermore, they tend to be from my generation and they understand what Mohammad Ali stood for and against.
Afro-American as in Italian-American, Irish-American and Mexican-American. If we knew what country the original "slave" came from we could be more specific.
Furthermore, Mohammad was a trailblazer in the African-American community, is that better, with his conversion to Islam.
Islam is doing wonders for hundreds of thousands, if not more, black Americans. Their work in the inner cities to combat violence, drugs, and alcohol is to be commended and Mohammad Ali was an important part of the movement.
Thank you Mohammad Ali for putting your love behind this religion.
You don't know me from Adam. Or my African American friends, my staffs over the years that have mostly been minorities and\or women that I hired, my charitable works and donations, etc, etc.
Furthermore, I have nothing against Islam as a religion, but thanks for the patronizing. Even took Islam in college...as well as Hinduism. I do have something against people that kill in the name of Islam (or for that matter kill in the name of Quakers, Catholics, Protestants, etc).
The term "Afro-American" is frowned upon in this country....I would think you would know this. The term was used in the 1960's and 1970s', but is no longer the preferred term. Ironic, especially in this thread where some were accosted for using Cassius Clay, and here you are using "Afro-American".
Amazing that I, the great unwashed in your eyes, knows that this term is no longer used and hasn't been for decades....but you, the enlightened one does not. Interesting. In case someone hasn't told you, the term "oriental" is no longer used either.
Thanks for the lecture.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2016, 03:21:28 PM
You don't know me from Adam. Or my African American friends, my staffs over the years that have mostly been minorities and\or women that I hired, my charitable works and donations, etc, etc.
Furthermore, I have nothing against Islam as a religion, but thanks for the patronizing. Even took Islam in college...as well as Hinduism. I do have something against people that kill in the name of Islam (or for that matter kill in the name of Quakers, Catholics, Protestants, etc).
The term "Afro-American" is frowned upon in this country....I would think you would know this. The term was used in the 1960's and 1970s', but is no longer the preferred term. Ironic, especially in this thread where some were accosted for using Cassius Clay, and here you are using "Afro-American".
Amazing that I, the great unwashed in your eyes, knows that this term is no longer used and hasn't been for decades....but you, the enlightened one does not. Interesting. In case someone hasn't told you, the term "oriental" is no longer used either.
Thanks for the lecture.
You are more than welcome and no need to personally be offended or to defend yourself. Your credentials seem very impressive.
As you may have discerned, my Vogue 65 refers to my time in Milwaukee, that is the mid 1960's as Vietnam raged and Mohammad made his courageous stand against the war. That is the context of my original statement and I had no intention of bickering over the use of a term. Nice to know that it was acceptable in the 1960's and 70's, thanks for the lecture on proper semantics in the black community today.
While I may have no idea about what is acceptable speech in your neck of the woods, you have no idea what life was like in the Vietnam years. That is unless you were around then, as you say, I have no idea of your personal life, as you have no idea about mine.
Of course one could claim to be well read and know the history, but that is another thing entirely.
Oh, and while were at it, being a boss, employing people and making charitable contributions is different from being a member of an extended family, having blacks in ones family, or simply being a true friend. BTW, how do you do with the black dialect?
This may be one of the most embarrassing threads in Scoop history.
I love checking into Scoop every few days and seeing what threads have been hijacked by CBB and Co. An obituary about a legendary figure took less than one page before spinning down the rabbit hole of apparent grown-ups slinging mud at each other on the Internet. Now that's pathetic.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
This may be one of the most embarrassing threads in Scoop history.
What, you don't like hearing about everybody's "African-American friends"?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 04, 2016, 10:27:00 PM
Did you report the post to the moderator? They are usually responsive.
I didn't think it would be necessary...since a college educated person, retired, acknowledged like the rest of us not to make them political. Of course since that stance was taken, he started one thread in which he "hopes isn't political" and the whole thing is after two paragraphs and shut down. Then he can't help himself in this thread three times. In another thread, also shut down, he does it again.
He must be starved for the political stuff because he just can't stop the references time and again. Maybe he has a reading problem...or maybe it was so part and parcel with his career line of work it is just second nature to him.
Yep. Even though you are always involved in this type of mess, it's always someone else's fault.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 05, 2016, 03:46:45 PM
You are more than welcome and no need to personally be offended or to defend yourself. Your credentials seem very impressive.
As you may have discerned, my Vogue 65 refers to my time in Milwaukee, that is the mid 1960's as Vietnam raged and Mohammad made his courageous stand against the war. That is the context of my original statement and I had no intention of bickering over the use of a term. Nice to know that it was acceptable in the 1960's and 70's, thanks for the lecture on proper semantics in the black community today.
While I may have no idea about what is acceptable speech in your neck of the woods, you have no idea what life was like in the Vietnam years. That is unless you were around then, as you say, I have no idea of your personal life, as you have no idea about mine.
Of course one could claim to be well read and know the history, but that is another thing entirely.
Oh, and while were at it, being a boss, employing people and making charitable contributions is different from being a member of an extended family, having blacks in ones family, or simply being a true friend. BTW, how do you do with the black dialect?
You are right, it is different. That's why I enjoy my friendships so much, regardless of race. Going to Hawaii, Orlando, Europe, or just the river, etc with families of diverse ethnicities, races, creeds, etc. Or my son's continued relationship with a young lady who is Asian. Who knows how that will turn out, but if love is strong and it works out then I will be thrilled.
This is why when you guys play high and mighty with race and you hurl insults and call people racist, it is pathetic. I'm sure you understand.
And yes, that term is no longer acceptable. You are welcome.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 05, 2016, 04:04:21 PM
This may be one of the most embarrassing threads in Scoop history.
As soon as MU82, Mutaman and Brandx made it about race....which we knew they would.....it certainly got embarrassing...on them. Only they made it racial. Only they saw something that wasn't there. Only they hear dog whispers, just ask them. They can hear from miles around and know what people are thinking. Just ask them. Super heroes.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 05, 2016, 05:31:29 PM
As soon as MU82, Mutaman and Brandx made it about race....which we knew they would.....it certainly got embarrassing...on them. Only they made it racial. Only they saw something that wasn't there. Only they hear dog whispers, just ask them. They can hear from miles around and know what people are thinking. Just ask them. Super heroes.
Let me guess. You were always the one telling on others at the playground.