MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MUFlutieEffect on April 18, 2016, 08:17:56 AM
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http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/bulls_reporter_jimmy_butler_has_collosal_ego_hangs_with_mark_wahlberg/s1_127_20716072 (http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/bulls_reporter_jimmy_butler_has_collosal_ego_hangs_with_mark_wahlberg/s1_127_20716072)
Only one guy's take, but pretty brutal nonetheless...
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http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/bulls_reporter_jimmy_butler_has_collosal_ego_hangs_with_mark_wahlberg/s1_127_20716072 (http://www.yardbarker.com/nba/articles/bulls_reporter_jimmy_butler_has_collosal_ego_hangs_with_mark_wahlberg/s1_127_20716072)
Only one guy's take, but pretty brutal nonetheless...
Seems like you could see this coming over the last two years - thibs leaving only cemented te deal - jimmy bet on himself and won - you understand why he's got an ego - but if you can't be an effective leader what's the point -
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I think the Mark Wahlberg thing is a headline attention grab but there is something very wrong in that lockerroom and the rumors of the Bulls willing to trade Butler instead of just getting rid of the shell of D-Rose shows it has something to do with Butler. As Bucks fan, he is in my top five for players I can't stand. Just runs his mouth the whole game and not in a games manship kind of way either. (Basically in a Lance Stephenson kind of way where you question if something is wrong with him) It's too bad cause he has such a great background story, he should be one of the most loved players in the NBA. Then again, he probably wouldn't have made it this far if he was so warm and fuzzy.
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They have to trade Butler because the alternative for Gar/Pax is to get rid of their guy Hoiberg. (And Gar/Pax is going to survive this debacle?)
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For every negative story on JFB, there are - what - a hundred good stories?
Reminds me of a couple years ago when a few people wrote stuff trying to make DWade look like a bad person. Now those articles are just background noise.
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View this story in the context of what the Bulls have and are. Rose has consistently been a horrible leader and teammate. Management asks JFB to step, he doesn't have developed leadership skills to execute that role and probably doesn't want that job. I think JFB getting traded would be the best thing for JFB and the Bulls. What can you get for Rose?
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Whoa ... an NBA star with a colossal ego? That is a shocking revelation.
Also, this comes from Sam Smith, the made his chops with unflattering portrayals of a previous Bulls star.
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The Bulls were one of the most disappointing teams in the NBA this season. Jimmy is the team's best player and appointed himself the leader. As a result, he's going to get an inordinate amount of blame.
The players on that roster didn't like Thibs, don't respect Hoiberg and don't want to follow their best player. A big part of that is obviously on those 3 guys, but a significant part also has to do with the personalities on the roster.
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Whoa ... an NBA star with a colossal ego? That is a shocking revelation.
Also, this comes from Sam Smith, the made his chops with unflattering portrayals of a previous Bulls star.
Which were pretty much accurate however.
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Which were pretty much accurate however.
Some of them.
Regardless, the criticism of JB is asinine. Even if the stuff Smith is saying is true, who cares?
NBA teammates need to be besties? Hanging out with Mark Wahlberg somehow makes Jimmy a bad dude?
Jimmy and his ego are far down the list of the Bulls' problems, and this reeks of someone - Hoiberg, Pax, the Rose camp - throwing him under the bus to deflect far more deserved criticism on them.
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For every negative story on JFB, there are - what - a hundred good stories?
Reminds me of a couple years ago when a few people wrote stuff trying to make DWade look like a bad person. Now those articles are just background noise.
The Bulls were good when they had a tough as nails coach (Thibs) and were led by tough as nails players (JFB, Noah). Without the other two Jimmy was on an island surrounded by softies (Rose, Gasol, Hoiberg) posing as leaders. Those guys were way too comfortable with mediocrity. Butler wasn't and still isn't which ruffles feathers. Hope the Bulls do Jimmy the favor of trading him to an organization (players, coach and front office) with a collective fire in its belly.
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Daaaah Bulls dah Bulls dah Bulls. Sound like a bunch of whiners.
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Some of them.
Regardless, the criticism of JB is asinine. Even if the stuff Smith is saying is true, who cares?
NBA teammates need to be besties? Hanging out with Mark Wahlberg somehow makes Jimmy a bad dude?
Jimmy and his ego are far down the list of the Bulls' problems, and this reeks of someone - Hoiberg, Pax, the Rose camp - throwing him under the bus to deflect far more deserved criticism on them.
The Bulls were good when they had a tough as nails coach (Thibs) and were led by tough as nails players (JFB, Noah). Without the other two Jimmy was on an island surrounded by softies (Rose, Gasol, Hoiberg) posing as leaders. Those guys were way too comfortable with mediocrity. Butler wasn't and still isn't which ruffles feathers. Hope the Bulls do Jimmy the favor of trading him to an organization (players, coach and front office) with a collective fire in its belly.
I agree with both of these things. Butler has been a problem for the Bulls, and as I said above, they should trade Butler instead of admitting they screwed up with Hoiberg.
Knowing the Bulls, they will do neither and have the same troubles next year.
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I agree with both of these things. Butler has been a problem for the Bulls, and as I said above, they should trade Butler instead of admitting they screwed up with Hoiberg.
Knowing the Bulls, they will do neither and have the same troubles next year.
And they'll bring back Gasol and Noah :o
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I'm a Bucks fan and I would LOVE to get JFB on the Bucks. I'm not holding my breath on that deal happening, but Jimmy would be a good leader on the young Bucks.
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Jimmy has been a cancer on this Bulls team all year. Few of the people who cover the Bulls regularly would deny this.
But, there is also no doubt that Jimmy is a hard worker - maybe the hardest worker on the team. And it may have a lot to do with the situation this year, where the two team leaders - Rose and Noah have become whiny and lazy.
Rose and Jimmy are never going to work on the same team. Rose can't be traded, so the Bulls are stuck. Jimmy is by far the better player, but he and Rose are both alpha dogs doomed to disaster playing together.
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Sam Smith is the same guy who wrote an entire 300 page book on Jordan, much of it painting him in a very unflattering light. Is that book, and this stuff about Jimmy probably true? Sure, but if you can find a way to win, nobody is going to care. I think if you put the right guys around Jimmy, they will win, so it's not an impossible problem to fix.
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The Bulls were good when they had a tough as nails coach (Thibs) and were led by tough as nails players (JFB, Noah). Without the other two Jimmy was on an island surrounded by softies (Rose, Gasol, Hoiberg) posing as leaders. Those guys were way too comfortable with mediocrity. Butler wasn't and still isn't which ruffles feathers. Hope the Bulls do Jimmy the favor of trading him to an organization (players, coach and front office) with a collective fire in its belly.
+1. I have no idea how the contracts line up but JFB for Middleton and Monroe.
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+1. I have no idea how the contracts line up but JFB for Middleton and Monroe.
1) The Bulls will never add JFB to a division opponent with Giannis and Jabari.
2) Monroe would be the same problem he is in Milwaukee.
3) Middleton is just a very poor man's Jimmy.
4) If they did then also beg them to take MCW.
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when you are losing you've got to make somebody the scapegoat...hence reaching for reasons, (the b.s. stories they are mean, ego, etc.)
Doesn't Jimmy have one of the highest values over replacement in the NBA? The stuff that counts, on the court, makes me think Jimmy isn't the problem.
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+1. I have no idea how the contracts line up but JFB for Middleton and Monroe.
Will never happen.... unless scoop uses the #donedeal when talking about it and write 94 haikus about it.
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JFB seems to be best friends with Marky Mark. I could totally see this coming.
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I know it'll never happen guys.
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One report had the Bulls agreeing to trade Butler to the Celtics but it fell through when Boston wouldn't include Crowder in the deal.
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1) The Bulls will never add JFB to a division opponent with Giannis and Jabari.
2) Monroe would be the same problem he is in Milwaukee.
3) Middleton is just a very poor man's Jimmy.
4) If they did then also beg them to take MCW.
I don't disagree with number 1 being a reality but it is crazy stupid logic that a lot of GMs still have today. Hammond had previously made a comment about not dealing with Cleveland because of being in the same divisions. Divisions in the NBA are completely meaningless. Any eastern conference team will have the same competitive situation since the playoff seeding has changed to limit the significance of central division champs.
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First I thought the bulls might be behind a smear campaign to justify an upcoming trade. But they aren't that smart.
Now, I conclude that somebody is trying to reduce Butler's trade value.
Unfortunately this would be one of the other dysfunctional NBA teams. Bye By JFB, hello Phoenix or Sacratomato.
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I don't disagree with number 1 being a reality but it is crazy stupid logic that a lot of GMs still have today. Hammond had previously made a comment about not dealing with Cleveland because of being in the same divisions. Divisions in the NBA are completely meaningless. Any eastern conference team will have the same competitive situation since the playoff seeding has changed to limit the significance of central division champs.
You play your division opponents more often throughout the season than you do any other teams in the NBA. If you feel like you'd be helping stack a team you're going to see as many times as any other team in the league for the next 5 years (which they would be doing if they traded JFB to the Bucks) then it's not the greatest move.
Plus there's the salary situation. You'd need to add another fairly big Bulls contract to make a trade for Moose and Middleton work.
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You play your division opponents more often throughout the season than you do any other teams in the NBA. If you feel like you'd be helping stack a team you're going to see as many times as any other team in the league for the next 5 years (which they would be doing if they traded JFB to the Bucks) then it's not the greatest move.
That rationale makes sense...if you're a GM and feel you will get the bad end of a trade. If you're a confident GM and think you will get the better end of a trade, I'd think weakening a division opponent would have great appeal.
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You play your division opponents more often throughout the season than you do any other teams in the NBA. If you feel like you'd be helping stack a team you're going to see as many times as any other team in the league for the next 5 years (which they would be doing if they traded JFB to the Bucks) then it's not the greatest move.
Plus there's the salary situation. You'd need to add another fairly big Bulls contract to make a trade for Moose and Middleton work.
Here's the schedule formula:
4 games against the other 4 division opponents, [4x4=16 games]
4 games against 6 (out-of-division) conference opponents, [4x6=24 games]
3 games against the remaining 4 conference teams, [3x4=12 games]
2 games against teams in the opposing conference. [2x15=30 games]
You play your division 4 times a year and other conference opponents 3.666. So basically, by trading within the division you will play the guy one extra time over three years. He specifically said "division" opponent, which I thought was a meaningless term in modern NBA. There is very little difference between trading with the Bucks and the Heat.
I could see some benefit in having a preference between conferences but it is an 82 game schedule and these teams are headed in different directions. 2 extra games a year shouldn't hold your team back from making a trade you think will help you in the long run. Only in a situation where you have 2 top teams in the same conference (life the Spurs and Warriors potentially facing each other in the conference finals) where it will matter if you help the other team out. Otherwise, you are eliminating half the league and a few teams you could possibly face in the NBA finals from the other conference from your allowed trading list. It will start looking like a UW transfer blocked schools list when you start using that logic.
I was never questioning the trade or the feasibility behind it but rather pointing out how some fans and NBA officials think divisions matter at all in the NBA.
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The Bulls situation if fixable with some creativity and ingenuity. I just have no confidence that Paxson and Forman are capable of it.
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The Bulls situation if fixable with some creativity and ingenuity. I just have no confidence that Paxson and Forman are capable of it.
Agree 100%.
Creativity and ingenuity are not words one would often find associated with Paxson and Forman. When the front office is loyal to a fault as well as risk averse, you get the current state of the Bulls.
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Love what Jimmy did at Marquette. Love how great of a player he has made himself into the Association. Have never liked the type of player he became in the pros. Probably my least favorite Marquette alumni in the pros.
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John Paxson and Gar Forman are not suited to be in charge of basketball operations for the Bulls. I would have immediately fired John Paxson the moment he strangled Vinny Del Negro after a game for playing players too long. I would have immediately fired Gar Forman for not only firing Tom Thibdodeau (and having his hand-picked replacement Fred Hoiberg proven to be ill-equipped to manage NBA personalities), but also for instructing the players to "tune out" Thibodeau in December of last year - hoping to make Thibodeau look bad and be the reason the team couldn't advance past LeBron in the playoffs.
The level of dysfunction is reflective of the leadership in charge of the organization. No one is accountable. Not Paxson. Not Forman. Not Hoiberg. Not Rose. Not Jimmy. It's quite unreal to see a professional franchise be in such shambles.
As a Bulls fan, I would fire Paxson and Forman, and hire an outside experienced NBA Executive with no ties to Jerry Reinsdorf or the team (stop with the former players getting big roles), and begin a full-on rebuild. Hoiberg has too massive a contract to be let go after one year. Let Noah, Gasol and Dunleavy all go. Start rebuilding through the draft and get more athleticism on the team.
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Love what Jimmy did at Marquette. Love how great of a player he has made himself into the Association. Have never liked the type of player he became in the pros. Probably my least favorite Marquette alumni in the pros.
What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?
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What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?
This
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What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?
MU fans were having these same feelings towards Wade a few years ago. It'll pass.
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MU fans were having these same feelings towards Wade a few years ago. It'll pass.
Wade's flopping and frequent on-court whining played a big role in that, though. Jimmy is neither a flopper nor a whiner.
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What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?
I can see why people like him, but you are being intellectually dishonest if you can't see how he rubs people the wrong way. He talks trash the whole game, anointed himself the team leader before earning respect from other players, and just doesn't seem like an approachable person. There's a reason why he has been able to push himself to become the player he is but there is also a reason why the Bulls had horrible chemistry this year. If there wasn't a Marquette allegiance, I would be rooting against the guy. Give me player's like Jabari and Giannis who by all accounts are hard workers and seem like guys you want as a teammate.
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I can see why people like him, but you are being intellectually dishonest if you can't see how he rubs people the wrong way. He talks trash the whole game, anointed himself the team leader before earning respect from other players, and just doesn't seem like an approachable person. There's a reason why he has been able to push himself to become the player he is but there is also a reason why the Bulls had horrible chemistry this year. If there wasn't a Marquette allegiance, I would be rooting against the guy. Give me player's like Jabari and Giannis who by all accounts are hard workers and seem like guys you want as a teammate.
Agreed. Jimmy is as much a part of the problem in Chicago as are Rose, Gar/Pax, Hoiberg, Gasol, or anyone else associated with that franchise. It's a trainwreck. The only difference is that Jimmy could be part of the solution if all the other negative aspects of the franchise were removed. Don't see that happening, though.
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I can see why people like him, but you are being intellectually dishonest if you can't see how he rubs people the wrong way. He talks trash the whole game, anointed himself the team leader before earning respect from other players, and just doesn't seem like an approachable person. There's a reason why he has been able to push himself to become the player he is but there is also a reason why the Bulls had horrible chemistry this year. If there wasn't a Marquette allegiance, I would be rooting against the guy. Give me player's like Jabari and Giannis who by all accounts are hard workers and seem like guys you want as a teammate.
Well, you're wrong on several counts here:
- I can see why he might rub people the wrong way. I just happen to think those reasons are nonsense.
- He has earned the respect of teammates, with the exception of possibly one whose posse is well known for whispering unflattering things about others in the organization to the Chicago media.
- Neither of us know how approachable he is (or how approachable Parker or Giannis are, for that matter).
- He's far from the reason why the Bulls have horrible chemistry. In fact, the "horrible chemistry" stuff is largely bunk. This is pretty much the same lineup and chemistry that won 50 games last year and played the Cavs tough in the playoffs. The same lineup/chemistry that had the team 22-12 in January and third-seeded in the East. Chemistry didn't kills this team. Injuries and inconsistency did.
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The biggest elephant in the room is not Jimmy, but Derrick Rose. In the 2013 playoffs, the Bulls had Joakim Noah playing on one leg. Nate Robinson was puking his guts out in a trashcan during timeouts. Jimmy Butler played every second of the game. Derrick Rose was a healthy scratch for each game. He was cleared to play by the medical staff. He chose not to play. There's no way you can tell me that didn't rub hard hard workers like Butler and Noah the wrong way.
I, personally, would much rather build the team around Jimmy than Derrick. Derrick just cannot be the player he was pre-injury. It sucks and is unfortunate, but waiting for the Old Derrick to come back is foolish. He is who he is today - and injuries will continue to haunt him.
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Wade's flopping and frequent on-court whining played a big role in that, though. Jimmy is neither a flopper nor a whiner.
LeBron rubbed off on Wade big time when LeBron came to Miami.
I don't watch the Bulls much, but during the Playoffs it was clear that Jimmy got used to getting All Star treatment from the refs and was definitely a "whiner" when he didn't get a call he thought he deserved simply for being the best player on the court. It also seemed that he took offense to someone fouling him, as if there is nobody in their right mind who would possibly consider sending him to the free throw line instead of allowing a highlight dunk.
He's not the first player who has found success and started acting like an All Star and he won't be the last. But he's certainly not the Jimmy of his MU days.
I wish the Bucks could get him though.
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Wade was doing that stuff prior to LBJ. And I didn't mind then either.
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The biggest elephant in the room is not Jimmy, but Derrick Rose. In the 2013 playoffs, the Bulls had Joakim Noah playing on one leg. Nate Robinson was puking his guts out in a trashcan during timeouts. Jimmy Butler played every second of the game. Derrick Rose was a healthy scratch for each game. He was cleared to play by the medical staff. He chose not to play. There's no way you can tell me that didn't rub hard hard workers like Butler and Noah the wrong way.
I, personally, would much rather build the team around Jimmy than Derrick. Derrick just cannot be the player he was pre-injury. It sucks and is unfortunate, but waiting for the Old Derrick to come back is foolish. He is who he is today - and injuries will continue to haunt him.
One of the Bulls' biggest problems is that Rose is never going to be the Rose of old but he doesn't understand that and no one within the organization has the stones to explain it to him.
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Wade was doing that stuff prior to LBJ. And I didn't mind then either.
Every NBA star does the same thing. My assumption is that the fans who get on the case of Wade, Butler, etc simply don't watch the NBA very much...possibly because of all the whining and flopping.
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Wade was doing that stuff prior to LBJ. And I didn't mind then either.
Wade was flopped around and sold contact a lot prior to LeBron coming to Miami. In my opinion, the whining went to a completely different level once LeBron got there.
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Every NBA star does the same thing. My assumption is that the fans who get on the case of Wade, Butler, etc simply don't watch the NBA very much...possibly because of all the whining and flopping.
Wade only annoyed me when Lebron was on the team. It just seemed like Lebron's whining rubbed off on him even more and amplified it.
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Well, you're wrong on several counts here:
- I can see why he might rub people the wrong way. I just happen to think those reasons are nonsense.
- He has earned the respect of teammates, with the exception of possibly one whose posse is well known for whispering unflattering things about others in the organization to the Chicago media.
- Neither of us know how approachable he is (or how approachable Parker or Giannis are, for that matter).
- He's far from the reason why the Bulls have horrible chemistry. In fact, the "horrible chemistry" stuff is largely bunk. This is pretty much the same lineup and chemistry that won 50 games last year and played the Cavs tough in the playoffs. The same lineup/chemistry that had the team 22-12 in January and third-seeded in the East. Chemistry didn't kills this team. Injuries and inconsistency did.
ok, fine from my fan's point of view I don't like him. You asked what people had against a player like Jimmy. I gave you my reasons and you immediately dismissed them as full of nonsense. Can't you at least accept why people don't like rooting for the guy? It's not a matter of being right/wrong but the perception he has created with fans. I said "doesn't seem like an approachable person." I know this is just an opinion but the question is why fans wouldn't like Butler. Butler just seems like a dick based on his actions on the court and media persona he has created the past few years. Jabari and Giannis say and do all the right things and based on people I know that have worked with them, that persona is real. I'm a Packers fan, but I feel like same way about Rodgers. I've heard stories where he is real petty, holds grudges, and other stuff that makes you not want to root for the guy. If he wasn't on the Packers, I probably wouldn't root for him.
I'll also disagree with the chemistry issues. As a Bucks fan, I have seen the team overachieve and underchieve greatly due to chemistry over the years.
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Wade was flopped around and sold contact a lot prior to LeBron coming to Miami. In my opinion, the whining went to a completely different level once LeBron got there.
That's because you don't like Lebron. I didn't notice a difference.
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That's because you don't like Lebron. I didn't notice a difference.
Meh. Vander Blue Man Group did notice a difference, so I'm not the only one here.
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What do you have against hardworking, clutch two-way players who've improved every year?
Nothing, I love what Jimmy can do with a basketball. I just don't like everything else that he has brought with it.
I know some people love Jimmy's attitude and how gets in player's faces but I don't. I prefer players who keep their mouth shut and play the game. And while some on here praised JFB for tripping one of the Plumlee clones, I didn't. It was a dirty play that has no place in basketball. He runs his mouth about every call, publicly airs dirty laundry from the locker room in front of the media, and by multiple reports, doesn't seem like a good team player. Love his talent, but all these things rub me the wrong way. I love what he did and still does for Marquette and will continue to cheer for him. But I prefer Matthews, Wade, Crowder, and Novak to JFB. I'll probably prefer Ellenson to JFB too once he goes pro.
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The guy plays basketball. All that matters is if he helps his team win.
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I think what people mean is Jimmy's a bit of an asshat.
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Jimmy could be traded because he's the most valuable trade asset the Bulls have (unless they pull of a lottery win). Bulls problem is they have no identity, Hoiberg seems not to have the persona to instill that so far. They have a terribly flawed roster as well, that management has tried to get every ounce of basketball out of, and the last two years it's showed.
I don't know if Rose will be moved, but he actually had a fairly good year this season. He's a far different player now, and a team like Charlotte or Denver I could see making a move for him. The increase in the cap makes Rose a lot easier to move.
If I were the Bulls, I'd tank 2016, and trade Butler to Boston for theirs and Brooklyn's 2017 firsts. I would want as many 2017 first rounders as I can get.
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John Paxson and Gar Forman are not suited to be in charge of basketball operations for the Bulls. I would have immediately fired John Paxson the moment he strangled Vinny Del Negro after a game for playing players too long. I would have immediately fired Gar Forman for not only firing Tom Thibdodeau (and having his hand-picked replacement Fred Hoiberg proven to be ill-equipped to manage NBA personalities), but also for instructing the players to "tune out" Thibodeau in December of last year - hoping to make Thibodeau look bad and be the reason the team couldn't advance past LeBron in the playoffs.
The level of dysfunction is reflective of the leadership in charge of the organization. No one is accountable. Not Paxson. Not Forman. Not Hoiberg. Not Rose. Not Jimmy. It's quite unreal to see a professional franchise be in such shambles.
This is a good assessment. Also, Jimmy, although very capable in transition, is not a high-pace offense puzzle piece, and is primarily an isolation player. Doesn't seem to fit in Hoiberg's push-the-ball and keep it flying offense. His huge games featured him isolated in his pre-Hoiberg (Thibs) sets. If GarPax just could've gotten Thibs to be more compliant to management/trainer-mandated minutes restrictions, he would still be coaching, and the Bulls would at least be limping into the playoffs. The effect of injuries on this sad situation cannot be understated.
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The funny thing about those injuries is that management (Forman/Paxson) always blamed Thibodeau. They thought he worked the team too hard and played players too much. Well, he was gone this year, and guess what? The team still lost Noah, Dunleavy, Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, and Rose for numerous games due to injuries. They lost many games they shouldn't have. They (Paxson/Forman) couldn't place blame on Thibodeau, since he was long gone, and they certainly wouldn't blame it on Hoiberg, who they just hired, or themselves, which they have never done. They have never raised a finger of protest against Derrick Rose. They can't blame Pau Gasol or Joakim Noah (they are free agents).
So who does that leave? Who is the epitome and shining example of the Tom Thibodeau era? That's Jimmy Butler.
They are spinning the failures of this year onto someone else they can dismiss and place all of their failures onto. They did it with it Vinny Del Negro, Scott Skiles, and Tom Thibodeau. They did it with Luol Deng. And now they are doing it to Butler.
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Jabari and Giannis say and do all the right things and based on people I know that have worked with them, that persona is real
The same Giannis who had a hissy fit in the playoffs last year and threw Dunleavy out of bounds, the least likely Bull to fight back? He's not an angel, no NBA star is. They are all competitors to the highest degree and doesn't always lend itself to angelic behavior.
Bulls fans went crazy over Jimmy's grit and attitude when he didn't stand down from Nene and got head butted. As they said in the West Wing "they'll like us when we win". Larry Bird and MJ's trash talk has been lauded for good reason, it's just the kind of nitpicky stuff people harp on when things aren't going well.
As for the leader ego portion, I still struggle to see that as a bad thing. Rose is a shell, Noah's been out of commission, Jimmy just got paid a max contract and was the best returning player. If he doesn't step up and say "I got this" at that point, he'll never be looks at as "the man" for the rest of his career, it was his moment. Throwing Hoiberg under the bus publicly was a bad look, no question, but it also spoke to the authority vacuum in the organization, especially for a guy who credits much of his success to the previous coach.
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They didn't blame Rose? They don't have to. Everyone in Chicago knows he's completely useless and a salary cap drain. Taking time to blame Rose serves no purpose. He's broken and can't be fixed other than by coming off the books.
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Well, you're wrong on several counts here:
- I can see why he might rub people the wrong way. I just happen to think those reasons are nonsense.
- He has earned the respect of teammates, with the exception of possibly one whose posse is well known for whispering unflattering things about others in the organization to the Chicago media.
- Neither of us know how approachable he is (or how approachable Parker or Giannis are, for that matter).
- He's far from the reason why the Bulls have horrible chemistry. In fact, the "horrible chemistry" stuff is largely bunk. This is pretty much the same lineup and chemistry that won 50 games last year and played the Cavs tough in the playoffs. The same lineup/chemistry that had the team 22-12 in January and third-seeded in the East. Chemistry didn't kills this team. Injuries and inconsistency did.
How big of a Bulls fan are you Pakuni?
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Here's what needs to happen but Gar/Pax would never have the stones to do it trade Rose and Gibson, let Noah and Pau walk, maybe get something for McDermott and cut Snell. Build around Jimmy, Portis, and Mirotic and draft well. You gotta blow it up, this team isnt gonna win anything anytime soon. Rose has been such a detriment to the team since the first ACL injury.
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The same Giannis who had a hissy fit in the playoffs last year and threw Dunleavy out of bounds, the least likely Bull to fight back? He's not an angel, no NBA star is. They are all competitors to the highest degree and doesn't always lend itself to angelic behavior.
Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong. Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play. Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again). Dunleavy is a well known dirty player. So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.
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Here's what needs to happen but Gar/Pax would never have the stones to do it trade Rose and Gibson, let Noah and Pau walk, maybe get something for McDermott and cut Snell. Build around Jimmy, Portis, and Mirotic and draft well. You gotta blow it up, this team isnt gonna win anything anytime soon. Rose has been such a detriment to the team since the first ACL injury.
Mirotic is a one trick pony. Get a hand up to contest but stay down and don't bight on the pump and let him jump into you and he's useless. Personally I think McDermott has a better chance to really contribute in the NBA than Mirotic does.
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Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong. Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play. Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again). Dunleavy is a well known dirty player. So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.
There was no punch.
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John Paxson and Gar Forman are not suited to be in charge of basketball operations for the Bulls. I would have immediately fired John Paxson the moment he strangled Vinny Del Negro after a game for playing players too long. I would have immediately fired Gar Forman for not only firing Tom Thibdodeau (and having his hand-picked replacement Fred Hoiberg proven to be ill-equipped to manage NBA personalities), but also for instructing the players to "tune out" Thibodeau in December of last year - hoping to make Thibodeau look bad and be the reason the team couldn't advance past LeBron in the playoffs.
The level of dysfunction is reflective of the leadership in charge of the organization. No one is accountable. Not Paxson. Not Forman. Not Hoiberg. Not Rose. Not Jimmy. It's quite unreal to see a professional franchise be in such shambles.
As a Bulls fan, I would fire Paxson and Forman, and hire an outside experienced NBA Executive with no ties to Jerry Reinsdorf or the team (stop with the former players getting big roles), and begin a full-on rebuild. Hoiberg has too massive a contract to be let go after one year. Let Noah, Gasol and Dunleavy all go. Start rebuilding through the draft and get more athleticism on the team.
Bang on. Adding that Sam Smith is a paid toady of Gar-Pax. Gar was Tim Floyd's bag man. Scum of the earth. They are after Jimmy in the press as he is the only one one they can trade of value, so they are denigrating him now in advance of dumping him.
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There was no punch.
There was definitely a punch, and definitely an intentional one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDTdznm7KH4
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Not to defend Giannis's play as it was dirty and flat out stupid, but to say Dunleavy is "the least likely to fight back" is flat out wrong. Dunleavy is a dirty player and took 2 completely dirty shots in that game, including the one that led to Giannis's really, really stupid play. Again, not defending Giannis's play in the least bit, and my guess is Giannis would be the first to say it was an idiotic play (if you can even call it a "play"), but first Dunleavy clearly intentionally threw a punch right into MCW's jaw while MCW was defenselessly coming down from a floater (and wasn't called for anything), hit MCW up in the neck area on an (uncalled) illegal screen, and then took a swing up near Giannis's neck "boxing out" just before that (uncalled again). Dunleavy is a well known dirty player. So I guess maybe he wouldn't fight back, he'd just hit someone below the belt with all 4 of his own teammates within arms reach in case that person retaliated.
Ehhh ... Mike Dunleavy has played 933 NBA games. He has been called for six flagrant fouls. So, about one every two seasons.
Doesn't exactly support the notion that he's "a well known dirty player."
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Ehhh ... Mike Dunleavy has played 933 NBA games. He has been called for six flagrant fouls. So, about one every two seasons.
Doesn't exactly support the notion that he's "a well known dirty player."
I'm not sure where to find flagrant foul stats but I doubt Matthew Dellevedova was near the top of flagrant fouls in the NBA last year, yet he was voted the dirtiest player in the NBA. Dirty does not necessarily equate to flagrant fouls, especially today where even incidental contact above the shoulders is a flagrant foul. I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Dunleavy has long been known as a guy who is more than happy to take a cheap shot when the opportunity presents itself.
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The funny thing about those injuries is that management (Forman/Paxson) always blamed Thibodeau. They thought he worked the team too hard and played players too much. Well, he was gone this year, and guess what? The team still lost Noah, Dunleavy, Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, and Rose for numerous games due to injuries. They lost many games they shouldn't have. They (Paxson/Forman) couldn't place blame on Thibodeau, since he was long gone, and they certainly wouldn't blame it on Hoiberg, who they just hired, or themselves, which they have never done. They have never raised a finger of protest against Derrick Rose. They can't blame Pau Gasol or Joakim Noah (they are free agents).
So who does that leave? Who is the epitome and shining example of the Tom Thibodeau era? That's Jimmy Butler.
They are spinning the failures of this year onto someone else they can dismiss and place all of their failures onto. They did it with it Vinny Del Negro, Scott Skiles, and Tom Thibodeau. They did it with Luol Deng. And now they are doing it to Butler.
Your facts are true, your conclusions are unassailable. Well done.
Jimmy was the only Bull who didn't quietly accept the mess that Paxson and Foreman made, the only Bull (including the coach and the front office) who demanded excellence from himself and those around him. While everybody else was busy covering their own backsides Jimmy was laying his on the line - and expecting the same from others. Unhealthy organizations don't like accountability or those who demand it - first it was Thibs, now it's JFB. Who'll be next?
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There was definitely a punch, and definitely an intentional one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDTdznm7KH4
I don't think you know what a punch is.
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I don't think you know what a punch is.
Watch him from the very start of the video. When you just watch him live it's pretty clear he has a closed fist, draws his elbow back, and punches MCW. Hence why the title of the video is "Dunleavy punches..."
Another take (didn't realize his punch chipped MCW's tooth):
http://www.thescore.com/news/757346
The Vine in the article clearly shows a closed fisted punch. Definitely a punch.
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My memory may be off but I recall unfettered Jimmy love until he rejected the Bulls first contract. He had such a great year after the team really had no choice but to give him a huge contract. Then Tibs is gone, Noah wears out, Dunleavy is hurt and the team more or less implodes. The whole Rose thing is hard to place. So much leftover MVP thinking when he is clearly not physically capable of that game. Dude has never struck me as a hard worker, just an athletic freak, and who knows what Rose is thinking--the stuff that comes out of his mouth is hard to believe. The anti-Jimmy talk seems to have increased after he came out against Hoiberg, but I think it started from the "can't let go of Derrick as MVP" crowd.
Probably all contribute to the dumpster fire, and as the new kid with the big contract (and a big mouth) on a team that way underperformed expectations (and let's be honest, Chicago still thinks the Bears are contenders because 1985!), Jimmy is taking the hits.
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The Team last year had better chemistry. It also had Tibs and Jimmy butler making 5 mil per year and not 20 Mil. It sounds what What I read that Jimmy was more of a leader last year making 5 mil and less this year making 20 mil. Last year he led by example and this year he leads by a Carmelo Anthony type example. His D is worse, his shot selection is worse. He does not work to help teammates get shots like he use to. He does not goto the hole as much and settles for Jumpers. And he goes to the Media and says allot of things he should be saying in private. Jimmy got a little to famous to quick and still plays the troumble texas Card but that is just for the public. all the reporters around the team say its just for show.
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All I really care about is that JFB continues to perform at the highest level on the court. If he does that everything else will take care of itself.
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Watch him from the very start of the video. When you just watch him live it's pretty clear he has a closed fist, draws his elbow back, and punches MCW. Hence why the title of the video is "Dunleavy punches..."
Another take (didn't realize his punch chipped MCW's tooth):
http://www.thescore.com/news/757346
The Vine in the article clearly shows a closed fisted punch. Definitely a punch.
Yeah, I still don't consider that much of a punch, aside from what the editor decided to use for the headline. And it certainly didn't call for a full court sprint and tackle. Agree to disagree.
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Yeah, I still don't consider that much of a punch, aside from what the editor decided to use for the headline. And it certainly didn't call for a full court sprint and tackle. Agree to disagree.
Like I said, I'm not saying anything about Giannis's decision. But I don't know what Dunleavy did to MCW could possibly be called if it's not a punch (which just about every article and highlight I find of it is titled..."Dunleavy punches MCW").
Giannis's decision was inexcusable. Doesn't change the fact that Dunleavy is known as a dirty player, not some angel who "is the last person that would fight back."
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JFB getting a bad wrap, aineea?
(http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SldbqlVa--/18usij3pb252ojpg.jpg)
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Bang on. Adding that Sam Smith is a paid toady of Gar-Pax. Gar was Tim Floyd's bag man. Scum of the earth. They are after Jimmy in the press as he is the only one one they can trade of value, so they are denigrating him now in advance of dumping him.
Why would they denigrate Jimmy before dumping him? It only lessens his value and makes them look anxious to move him.
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The same Giannis who had a hissy fit in the playoffs last year and threw Dunleavy out of bounds, the least likely Bull to fight back? He's not an angel, no NBA star is. They are all competitors to the highest degree and doesn't always lend itself to angelic behavior.
I fully admit I'm a Bucks homer but you can't help but love Giannis. Even his tackle of Dunleavy was so far from subtle that it came endearing to me. Between his love of smoothies, him completely overrating his brothers, stories of sending all his cash to family that he forgot to save some for a cab and ended up running to the arena to make the game before a fan saw him and picked him up, ok I'm done and will see myself out with this link....
http://nbpa.com/hangin-with-giannis-antetokounmpo-a-revealing-portrait-of-a-close-family-man-and-big-brother/
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Giannis's decision was inexcusable. Doesn't change the fact that Dunleavy is known as a dirty player, not some angel who "is the last person that would fight back."
For the record, I wasn't painting Dunleavy as angelic, more so that he's scrawny and unintimidating. As opposed to a lot of tougher personalities on that team like Butler, Noah, Gibson, etc...
And Marty, you can relax with your Giannis fan-boying. I like him a lot too, just pointing out less than a year ago directly contradicted your "does everything the absolute right way". And your puff piece didn't help considering there 3x as many of those similar type pieces out there about Jimmy.
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For the record, I wasn't painting Dunleavy as angelic, more so that he's scrawny and unintimidating. As opposed to a lot of tougher personalities on that team like Butler, Noah, Gibson, etc...
And Marty, you can relax with your Giannis fan-boying. I like him a lot too, just pointing out less than a year ago directly contradicted your "does everything the absolute right way". And your puff piece didn't help considering there 3x as many of those similar type pieces out there about Jimmy.
Gotcha gotcha, fair enough. Sorry for going on a tangent.
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I'm not sure where to find flagrant foul stats but I doubt Matthew Dellevedova was near the top of flagrant fouls in the NBA last year, yet he was voted the dirtiest player in the NBA. Dirty does not necessarily equate to flagrant fouls, especially today where even incidental contact above the shoulders is a flagrant foul. I'm pretty sure I've read somewhere that Dunleavy has long been known as a guy who is more than happy to take a cheap shot when the opportunity presents itself.
Dellavedova is tied for second in the NBA in flagrant fouls this year. Impressive for a guy who plays less than 25 mpg.
http://www.foxsports.com/nba/stats?season=2015&category=MISC&group=1&sort=8&time=0&pos=0&team=0&qual=1&sortOrder=0&opp=0
With all due respect, saying "you're pretty sure you've read it somewhere" is no persuasive evidence that Dunleavy is a well known dirty player.
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Some of them.
Regardless, the criticism of JB is asinine. Even if the stuff Smith is saying is true, who cares?
NBA teammates need to be besties? Hanging out with Mark Wahlberg somehow makes Jimmy a bad dude?
Jimmy and his ego are far down the list of the Bulls' problems, and this reeks of someone - Hoiberg, Pax, the Rose camp - throwing him under the bus to deflect far more deserved criticism on them.
What you didn't say - which some don't know - is that Sam Smith is paid by the Bulls to write about the Bulls.
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Why would they denigrate Jimmy before dumping him? It only lessens his value and makes them look anxious to move him.
I don't think that any of that will matter one bit to the teams that have an interest in JFB.
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This ad is on display at my train station. I am sure its interpretation is not the same as when they first designed it:
(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/p280x280/13006617_10154002860706083_8576135955170392839_n.jpg?oh=23a0373ee2843bd58978f6ce549143ef&oe=57B795F5)
I can't tell whether Jimmy is staring down Rose or Hoiberg.
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Why would they denigrate Jimmy before dumping him? It only lessens his value and makes them look anxious to move him.
Pure PR, CYA play meant to distract the fanbase from the front office failures. The BS won't affect Jimmy's value - the rest of the league knows who he is.
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http://www.bigplay.com/bulls-locker-room-split-between-jimmy-buter-joakim-noah/
Is this 7th grade girls basketball or what?
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http://www.bigplay.com/bulls-locker-room-split-between-jimmy-buter-joakim-noah/
Is this 7th grade girls basketball or what?
Joakim is pretty much finished as a player - has been for awhile. But evidently he's still a good agitator.