https://www.youtube.com/v/Q4VGQPk2Dl8
I'd love one, but I regularly need a longer than 200 mile round trip range for work. Not very practical for me.*
*setting aside cost/availability issues
The range issue is the only thing holding e-cars back. There needs to be a battery swap or quick recharge situation, or something. It is like being limited to a single tank of gas, and a small one at that.
When the battery technology develops to where they can be swapped out like the ones on your power tools, EV's will gain significant market share. The second big breakthrough will be when the battery can be charged by solar powers on the cars. Re: The Tesla Mode 3, I am holding out for the AWD hatchback.
EV is the worst solution out there. By a lot.
Question for Keefe or Eng. I know commercial flying is way different than military flying but just curious let's say for say a 5 hour flight, little to no turbulence, how much does a pilot actually fly now vs. Autopilot.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 01, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
The range issue is the only thing holding e-cars back. There needs to be a battery swap or quick recharge situation, or something. It is like being limited to a single tank of gas, and a small one at that.
Give it time...
https://www.youtube.com/v/H5V0vL3nnHY
Note: There are thousands (and going to double the total # by end of 2017) of superchargers throughout the US
https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
As of yesterday, already 115k reservations for the Model 3.
Good luck getting that tax credit.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 01, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
The range issue is the only thing holding e-cars back. There needs to be a battery swap or quick recharge situation, or something. It is like being limited to a single tank of gas, and a small one at that.
https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
Quote from: reinko on April 01, 2016, 04:11:49 PM
https://www.teslamotors.com/supercharger
There aren't that many in Wisconsin. Until they exist in rural areas, I'd have to take some inefficient routes to courthouses to make sure I could swing by a supercharger.
Quote from: ChitownEllenson on April 01, 2016, 04:01:00 PM
Question for Keefe or Eng. I know commercial flying is way different than military flying but just curious let's say for say a 5 hour flight, little to no turbulence, how much does a pilot actually fly now vs. Autopilot.
Launch and recovery. That's it. Iron Mike the rest of the way.
Quote from: keefe on April 01, 2016, 04:28:40 PM
Launch and recovery. That's it. Iron Mike the rest of the way.
Even then depending on the airport/approach some landings are automated (assuming VFR)
Quote from: mu03eng on April 01, 2016, 04:44:58 PM
Even then depending on the airport/approach some landings are automated (assuming VFR)
That's true but most approaches are still manual and some are exclusively so.
Flight deck crew are really just important insurance policies. With big watches.
Quote from: keefe on April 01, 2016, 04:00:48 PM
EV is the worst solution out there. By a lot.
Agree, but that doesn't stop the ecowarriors....the irony is there are more sound eco options.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 01, 2016, 03:54:26 PM
The range issue is the only thing holding e-cars back. There needs to be a battery swap or quick recharge situation, or something. It is like being limited to a single tank of gas, and a small one at that.
You can put a charger in your garage for a few hundred dollars and start everyday with a full charge.
Tesla will tell you that 80 to 90% of their owners needs are satisfied by this range. And they all own at least 1 gasoline powered car for the other 10% to 20%.
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 01, 2016, 04:11:39 PM
As of yesterday, already 115k reservations for the Model 3.
Good luck getting that tax credit.
That's why they started pre-orders yesterday, to take advantage of the tax credit.
The Tesla showrooms (not dealerships) were like Apple stores the day of an iPhone release. Lines out the door.
Oh ... no one has seen the car and the
hope to start delivery in late 2017.
Tesla got orders for 115k cars in one day on the strength of their reputation with anyone ever seeing one. You think Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc could pull that off?
Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2016, 03:58:02 PM
When the battery technology develops to where they can be swapped out like the ones on your power tools, EV's will gain significant market share. The second big breakthrough will be when the battery can be charged by solar powers on the cars. Re: The Tesla Mode 3, I am holding out for the AWD hatchback.
They rolled that out a few months ago. The model x, rear gull-wing door, starting price is $140k
But you have to wait a year, 2016 production is already sold out, unless to want to pay up and buy the pre-order from someone. Those are going for $30 to $50k (making the all-in price around $200k).
(http://2zeobl3ojpj43evvq11p5yodq7e.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Tesla-Model-X.jpg)
Ya can probably find one on EBay or Craig's List, ai na?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2016, 08:03:34 PM
They rolled that out a few months ago. The model x, rear gull-wing door, starting price is $140k
But you have to wait a year, 2016 production is already sold out, unless to want to pay up and buy the pre-order from someone. Those are going for $30 to $50k (making the all-in price around $200k).
(http://2zeobl3ojpj43evvq11p5yodq7e.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/Tesla-Model-X.jpg)
I am aware of the model X. I even know what Musk's initial idea for the 3 series was. I want a hatchback off of this body style at this price point. I like hatchbacks and small wagons.
Quote from: tower912 on April 01, 2016, 08:33:20 PM
I am aware of the model X. I even know what Musk's initial idea for the 3 series was. I want a hatchback off of this body style at this price point. I like hatchbacks and small wagons.
You and Ellen?
Teslas are everywhere out here. And Leafs. And Volts. One guy in the parking structure brings his own extension cord and plugs it into the wall rather than going to the charging station. People have a good time unplugging it for him because he's stealing from the company.
Preoders up to 232k
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2016, 07:57:42 PM
That's why they started pre-orders yesterday, to take advantage of the tax credit.
The Tesla showrooms (not dealerships) were like Apple stores the day of an iPhone release. Lines out the door.
Oh ... no one has seen the car and the hope to start delivery in late 2017.
Tesla got orders for 115k cars in one day on the strength of their reputation with anyone ever seeing one. You think Ford, GM, Toyota, BMW, Mercedes, etc could pull that off?
It wasn't quite 115K, but an entire years allocation of Dodge Challenger Hellcats were sold before they were built.
And it is a little weird that Tesla gets to operate their own stores. I believe it is illegal for car manufacturers to own their selling outlets. Except for Tesla.
Curious what the cold weather does to the stated range. Seems like a MN winter might make it a bit shorter, no?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2016, 09:27:37 PM
Teslas are everywhere out here. And Leafs. And Volts. One guy in the parking structure brings his own extension cord and plugs it into the wall rather than going to the charging station. People have a good time unplugging it for him because he's stealing from the company.
Spend at least one week a month in Torrance for my client and it blows me away how many Teslas are on the road plus the charging stations. I kick myself every time I see where TSLA stock price is at. I sold at $50 and made a tidy profit but left a lot of money on the table.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 09:49:40 AM
It wasn't quite 115K, but an entire years allocation of Dodge Challenger Hellcats were sold before they were built.
And it is a little weird that Tesla gets to operate their own stores. I believe it is illegal for car manufacturers to own their selling outlets. Except for Tesla.
Their not stores, they are showrooms. You buy a tesla online.
But to your larger point, among the many thing tesla is doing to disrupt the auto industry is trying to break the model of manufacturer and dealer. Tesla are not sold though dealers, you buy direct from the manufacturer.
This in addition to ...
electric,
forward styling (the car has no buttons on the dashboard), also seats 7 (no gas tank so the trunk is big enough for two jump seats.
automated driving, the car is the most advanced self-driving car on the road. It will even self-drive in heavy city traffic.
digital download (the car has wifi and constantly gets upgrades and patches downloaded, like software/apps do. Traditional cars only do this via government recall). So see self-driving above, upgrades and patches stream in regularly making this get better and better all the time. Contrast this with Audi. The are promising the 2017 A8 will be the most advanced self-driving car on the road. It will be for about 1 day. After you put down $80k for one, like all current car manufacturers, the technology is forever frozen and will never change, unless you put down another $80k on a 2018 or 2019 A8.
8 year warranty which includes everything (even flats).
Because of this, see the stocks of traditional automakers, they are terrible even though they are selling record numbers. Wall Street thinks their business models are wrong for the current age and they are a bunch of buggy whip makers enjoying the last surge of sales before everything changes.
Tesla is causing this to happen and traditional car makers are too slow and bureaucratic to know how to compete.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 10:36:07 AM
Their not stores, they are showrooms. You buy a tesla online.
But to your larger point, among the many thing tesla is doing to disrupt the auto industry is trying to break the model of manufacturer and dealer. Tesla are not sold though dealers, you buy direct from the manufacturer.
Yes, but this is illegal for traditional manufacturers. The manufacturers can't sell direct to customers.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 11:12:27 AM
Yes, but this is illegal for traditional manufacturers. The manufacturers can't sell direct to customers.
Correct, and Tesla has been fighting this state by state to break these rules.
Texas and NJ have put up the biggest fight. Most of the rest of the states have caved and allow it.
The manufacturers are not fighting it, it is the dealers that have been fighting it, and mostly losing. Politicians are loath to be on the side of used car salesman.
Saying in Silicon Valley ....
Banning Tesla is an index of the corruptness of state governments as banning Uber is an index of the corruptness of city governments.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 11:44:26 AM
Correct, and Tesla has been fighting this state by state to break these rules.
Texas and NJ have put up the biggest fight. Most of the rest of the states have caved and allow it.
The manufacturers are not fighting it, it is the dealers that have been fighting it, and mostly losing. Politicians are loath to be on the side of used car salesman.
Saying in Silicon Valley ....
Banning Tesla is an index of the corruptness of state governments as banning Uber is an index of the corruptness of city governments.
Really? Kind of creates an unfair advantage for Tesla don't you think? If Ford, GM, FCA, Toyota, Nissan, Honda could sell direct they would. They would
love to. It would save them tons of money, give a more consistent experience and look. Most of the problems with the car buying experience is because of the dealers. It is a rule that was put in place to prevent price fixing by the manufacturer, completely outdated, should be revoked, I'd say, but not just for Tesla.
As for Uber, it is kind of a joke right? I mean cab companies have tons of regulations to meet and other gigantic fixed costs they need to support, where Uber is a ride share, not a taxi service. Riiiiiiiiiight. I can understand why Cab companies would be furious as how Uber is treated.
It is a good service (usually) but operates under the guise of something it completely is not. Quite like Daily Fantasy.
And I'm sure Silicon Valley has no motivation for Uber and Tesla to get preferential treatment over traditional sources.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
Really? Kind of creates an unfair advantage for Tesla don't you think? If Ford, GM, FCA, Toyota, Nissan, Honda could sell direct they would. They would love to. It would save them tons of money, give a more consistent experience and look. Most of the problems with the car buying experience is because of the dealers. It is a rule that was put in place to prevent price fixing by the manufacturer, completely outdated, should be revoked, I'd say, but not just for Tesla.
They have repeatedly said they are in favor of the dealer model and have defended it for their business practices. They stopped fighting it from a regulatory standpoint.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 12:41:15 PM
As for Uber, it is kind of a joke right? I mean cab companies have tons of regulations to meet and other gigantic fixed costs they need to support, where Uber is a ride share, not a taxi service. Riiiiiiiiiight. I can understand why Cab companies would be furious as how Uber is treated.
It is a good service (usually) but operates under the guise of something it completely is not. Quite like Daily Fantasy.
And I'm sure Silicon Valley has no motivation for Uber and Tesla to get preferential treatment over traditional sources.
Turn it around, Uber has exposed how useless and expensive taxi regulations are. They don't serve the best interest of the customer they don't serve the best interest of the taxi driver. They serve the best interest of the politicians that make them.
It's the Taxi industries own fault for getting in bed with the politicians to create such a Byzantine system that allowed uber to come and take it away from him in three years.
@lebeaucarnews
NEW: $TSLA Model 3 reservations top a quarter million. @elonmusk says Total now stands at 253,000.
-------
still not done taking pre-orders
No other car like this in history
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 12:55:51 PM
They have repeatedly said they are in favor of the dealer model and have defended it for their business practices. They stopped fighting it from a regulatory standpoint.
I'm shocked they wouldn't publically fight the structure they need to sell their cars. Shocked!
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 12:58:26 PM
Turn it around, Uber has exposed how useless and expensive taxi regulations are. They don't serve the best interest of the customer they don't serve the best interest of the taxi driver. They serve the best interest of the politicians that make them.
It's the Taxi industries own fault for getting in bed with the politicians to create such a Byzantine system that allowed uber to come and take it away from him in three years.
Uber and Lyft are under assault here in California, Massachusetts, New York and elsewhere. A Federal judge just ruled this week that Lyft and Uber will likely have to pay for Medallions just like taxis. In Calif, the self contract role that Uber wanted has been gutted.
As for the service, I was on Uber when it first came out here and have used it fairly religiously. Unfortunately, the quality the last 6 months has really gone down. Taxis used to refuse to take folks from the airport to a short distance without bitching about it, despite the $21 minimum price. It was easy to get a Uber to do it for about $6. Now, Uber drivers are starting to decline those rides in the app leading to many pissed off customers....who are writing bad reviews, etc. as a result. Ultimately, follow the money. As the politicians start to lose out on their revenues from one, they will clamp up the regulations on the other...it's what they do.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 12:58:26 PM
Turn it around, Uber has exposed how useless and expensive taxi regulations are. They don't serve the best interest of the customer they don't serve the best interest of the taxi driver. They serve the best interest of the politicians that make them.
That's fine and likely true. All I am suggesting is that everyone in the same business should have to play by the same rules. It is a distinct competitive advantage for Uber to not need medallions and registration. It is a similar advantage for Tesla to not need (or rely upon) a dealer network.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on April 02, 2016, 10:30:52 AM
Spend at least one week a month in Torrance for my client and it blows me away how many Teslas are on the road plus the charging stations. I kick myself every time I see where TSLA stock price is at. I sold at $50 and made a tidy profit but left a lot of money on the table.
Yeah, in our parking garage at work alone....I don't...crazy number. I still think Musk is a crazy F, but he's a rich crazy F.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 05:06:10 PM
That's fine and likely true. All I am suggesting is that everyone in the same business should have to play by the same rules. It is a distinct competitive advantage for Uber to not need medallions and registration. It is a similar advantage for Tesla to not need (or rely upon) a dealer network.
Consumer are not avoiding unregulated taxis (Ubers) and non dealership sold cars. Instead they are seeking them out specifically because they have concluded those regulations are useless, making the product worse and more expensive.
The answer should be to gut the regulations. The problem is without those barriers taxis and dealers would not suruvuve five minutes, which is what your post suggests.
The world no longer needs regulated taxis** for car dealerships ... just like it concluded it no longer needs book stores and video rental shops.
** = actually the genius of Uber is the double rating model. Passengers rate drivers and drivers rate passengers. So if either misbehaves, they are banned or punished. That simple technique has invalidated a 100 years of stupid taxi regulations.
Fine and dandy, my point was just that Tesla is not being ground breaking, or disturbing the industry with their sales model. They are taking advantage of laws that for some reason don't apply to them and have been pressed upon other manufacturers.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 05:59:06 PM
Fine and dandy, my point was just that Tesla is not being ground breaking, or disturbing the industry with their sales model. They are taking advantage of laws that for some reason don't apply to them and have been pressed upon other manufacturers.
Tesla2015 unit sales 21,000
Market Cap $31.4 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $1.54 million
GM2015 unit sales 3.1 million
Market Cap $48.5 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $15,700
Ford2015 unit sales 800,000
Market Cap $53.8 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $67,200
If Wall Street valued GM the same way it values Tesla, it would be worth $4.7 trillion, or eight times Apple.
Tesla's PE is now 205
The last three yearsTesla's stock, up 527%
Big three auto, 0% (no typo unchanged)
S&P 500, UP 41%
The Model S
Car and Driver called it "The Car of the Century"
Consumer Reports gave it its highest safety rating in its history.
Is Tesla being disruptive? Absolutely, Elon Musk is forcing change on the auto industry like no one since Henry Ford. Tesla is the most significant auto company since Ford starting making the Model T.
Wall Street thinks Tesla is blowing up the auto industry. That is why all the auto stocks suck (even though autos are seeing record sales of 18 million/year) and Tesla is up 500%. The auto industry's business model, including the dealer selling model, is done and must go away.
It is the auto industry's fault for strangling itself with this inferior business model. Tesla is liberating the car industry.
Can ya pimp that ride, hey?
So, if one were ta throw a grand down on one of these beauties and the msrp is roughly 40g's, what's da real price after tax credits etc., hey?
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 02, 2016, 07:22:08 PM
So, if one were ta throw a grand down on one of these beauties and the msrp is roughly 40g's, what's da real price after tax credits etc., hey?
The tax credit is worth 7k. However, the credit only applies to the first 200k cars eligible for each manufacturer. So a LOT of people won't be getting the credit from Tesla
I got no interest now then, hey?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 02, 2016, 07:07:04 PM
Tesla
2015 unit sales 21,000
Market Cap $31.4 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $1.54 million
GM
2015 unit sales 3.1 million
Market Cap $48.5 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $15,700
Ford
2015 unit sales 800,000
Market Cap $53.8 billion
Market Cap per car sold = $67,200
If Wall Street valued GM the same way it values Tesla, it would be worth $4.7 trillion, or eight times Apple.
Tesla's PE is now 205
The last three years
Tesla's stock, up 527%
Big three auto, 0% (no typo unchanged)
S&P 500, UP 41%
The Model S
Car and Driver called it "The Car of the Century"
Consumer Reports gave it its highest safety rating in its history.
Is Tesla being disruptive? Absolutely, Elon Musk is forcing change on the auto industry like no one since Henry Ford. Tesla is the most significant auto company since Ford starting making the Model T.
Wall Street thinks Tesla is blowing up the auto industry. That is why all the auto stocks suck (even though autos are seeing record sales of 18 million/year) and Tesla is up 500%. The auto industry's business model, including the dealer selling model, is done and must go away.
It is the auto industry's fault for strangling itself with this inferior business model. Tesla is liberating the car industry.
Dude, glad you did so much research here. Didn't say they weren't being disruptive (or if I did, I thought you would be able to infer in what manner I meant). Just meant it for the dealership crap. Geesh.
It is also quite different to be a low quantity specialty manufacturer, a niche player, as opposed to someone that needs to make something for everyone. Of course margins and profits will be higher.
Will Tesla be a car for everyone someday? Maybe, but I would bet at that time they'd have a lot of similar competitors and their numbers would reflect that. To compare them to GM, Ford FCA, etc, is not an apples to apples comp.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 07:49:00 PM
Dude, glad you did so much research here. Didn't say they weren't being disruptive (or if I did, I thought you would be able to infer in what manner I meant). Just meant it for the dealership crap. Geesh.
It is also quite different to be a low quantity specialty manufacturer, a niche player, as opposed to someone that needs to make something for everyone. Of course margins and profits will be higher.
Will Tesla be a car for everyone someday? Maybe, but I would bet at that time they'd have a lot of similar competitors and their numbers would reflect that. To compare them to GM, Ford FCA, etc, is not an apples to apples comp.
I'm long Tesla, both the stock and the Model S in my garage, pulled these numbers off the top of my head. (also, put down a down deposit on a model 3 earlier today). As to the final cost, 90% of the Tesla's sold are the top of the line. I expect that to be the same with the model 3 which, I'm guessing will be about $50k to $60k (versus $130k or so for the top end Model S, P90D)
You're right Tesla is going to get a lot of competition ... from Google and Apple to name two as they are getting in the car business (strongly rumored by not confirmed but Apple) and Uber (rumored again).
The big three are done, that why their stocks are going down even though they are selling a record number of cars, this is their last cycle. They are incapable of handling the change that is coming, too stuck in the past with their thinking,
You think tesla apple and google are ready to produce 15 million cars? That's what was sold last year. I think once they have those production capabilities and the overhead that goes along with it their financials will look much different.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 02, 2016, 12:37:34 PM
Really? Kind of creates an unfair advantage for Tesla don't you think? If Ford, GM, FCA, Toyota, Nissan, Honda could sell direct they would. They would love to. It would save them tons of money, give a more consistent experience and look. Most of the problems with the car buying experience is because of the dealers. It is a rule that was put in place to prevent price fixing by the manufacturer, completely outdated, should be revoked, I'd say, but not just for Tesla.
I'm pretty sure that the dealership model was created by the traditional manufacturers as an additional layer of protection from lawsuits if cars malfunctioned. It just is the way it is now because that's how it's always been. (That and some sweet sweet bribe money to politicians to encode the dealership model into law).
If Amazon started selling cars, no negotiation, no bloody car salesmen, it would take a year or two but they would sell the vast majority of the cars and the dealers would die off in droves.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2016, 07:52:11 PM
You can put a charger in your garage for a few hundred dollars and start everyday with a full charge.
Tesla will tell you that 80 to 90% of their owners needs are satisfied by this range. And they all own at least 1 gasoline powered car for the other 10% to 20%.
It's pretty indulgent/impractical to have a Tesla for 80% of your driving and a gasoline powered car for those other times. I would have to keep two cars and drive them about 50-50. It's impractical.
I love Telsa, would love to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a real issue for some people. Just waving your hands and saying "it's not an issue for most people most of the time" doesn't really address it.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 03, 2016, 12:18:42 AM
You think tesla apple and google are ready to produce 15 million cars? That's what was sold last year. I think once they have those production capabilities and the overhead that goes along with it their financials will look much different.
No, see the model 3 ... Tesla builds the stuff rich people stand in line for hours to put a down payment on in hopes the will get one in two years. Only Apple can say this right now.
The big three build the garbage we have to buy because we need to get to work Monday.
One is the future, the other is the past.
Heisenberg Baby, you rich, man, hey?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 03, 2016, 11:00:57 AM
No, see the model 3 ... Tesla builds the stuff rich people stand in line for hours to put a down payment on in hopes the will get one in two years. Only Apple can say this right now.
The big three build the garbage we have to buy because we need to get to work Monday.
One is the future, the other is the past.
If they only build limited numbers for rich people, how are they gonna replace all manufacturers?
Imagine realizing at 6am that you not only forgot to recharge your I-phone the night before but also your Tesla.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 04, 2016, 12:18:47 AM
If they only build limited numbers for rich people, how are they gonna replace all manufacturers?
Short answer, see the giga factory that Tesla is building Nevada. The largest manufacturing facility in the United States under construction. Their long term goal ... it will employ zero employees, totally automated. (obviously they will not get to zero but it will not employ that many given the output of the factory)
Recognize that the "information age" we are in now is as significant as the industrial revolution. Wish I was under 25 as those with "experience" in business are at a disadvantage as make you slow to adapt and change and therefore more likely to get left behind.
Everything is changing like never before. Nothing is standing still.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2016, 10:04:35 AM
Everything is changing like never before. Nothing is standing still.
Not even the point you are trying to make apparently.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 04, 2016, 10:22:44 AM
Not even the point you are trying to make apparently.
huh?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 04, 2016, 10:04:35 AM
Recognize that the "information age" we are in now is as significant as the industrial revolution. Wish I was under 25 as those with "experience" in business are at a disadvantage as make you slow to adapt and change and therefore more likely to get left behind.
This is just a dumb statement. Slow to change is much more about attitude and aptitude then it is experience. Trust me, experience, given the ability to connect previously unconnected dots can produce far more change then some person stumbling around guessing and checking.
There is a power in inexperience being able to freely ask "why" to established convention but that alone doesn't drive change. There is inertia that experience can cause that could make change more difficult but your blanket statement that is always the case is silly.
Quote from: jficke13 on April 03, 2016, 07:15:05 AM
It's pretty indulgent/impractical to have a Tesla for 80% of your driving and a gasoline powered car for those other times. I would have to keep two cars and drive them about 50-50. It's impractical.
I love Telsa, would love to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a real issue for some people. Just waving your hands and saying "it's not an issue for most people most of the time" doesn't really address it.
I took it as the family of 5 will have 2-3 vehicles. The dad has his tesla for everyday driving and the mom has a suburban that the whole gang piles into for trips up to northern wisconsin while towing a boat. No car is perfect and going to fit every consumer, but I would say 90% of people could easily get away with this being the primary car and the family's second car being a gas powered car.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on April 02, 2016, 07:28:45 PM
I got no interest now then, hey?
I put down the G in case I want this car in 2 years. I am not sure I am early enough to buy it with the tax credit and probably will pass if I am too late. I'm not a car guy and was ok with getting a certified used car (low miles, 1 year old) for ~$18K. I just don't think cars are normally worth it. Buuuuuuutttt if I can get this car around $30K and they have upgraded their self-driving software I would be all in. If it's $40K, I'm going to pass.
I look at the reservation as $125 for a 2-year option (Threw out a random interest rate).
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on April 04, 2016, 02:29:27 PM
I put down the G in case I want this car in 2 years. I am not sure I am early enough to buy it with the tax credit and probably will pass if I am too late. I'm not a car guy and was ok with getting a certified used car (low miles, 1 year old) for ~$18K. I just don't think cars are normally worth it. Buuuuuuutttt if I can get this car around $30K and they have upgraded their self-driving software I would be all in. If it's $40K, I'm going to pass.
I look at the reservation as $125 for a 2-year option (Threw out a random interest rate).
I too put down the 1K and tentatively plan to buy. I waited until I was somewhere around the low 200,000's (Friday night), as I see no way I'll get the tax credit living in the Midwest and without a highly optioned build (CA will get a lot of the early builds as they want to sell near the factory, and preference will be given to highly optioned builds, and those that already have a Tesla).
I am actually hoping that my 200K plus reservation will put me into 2019 for my decision. Barring an accident, my current car will be 10 years old then, which is when I typically buy a new one. i also don't want an early build. I want a car that has been tweaked and some of the initial design and manufacturing flaws fixed. So, 2019 seems like a good time to have one built, as a lot will be sorted out by then. It will also give me time to see how the early adopter cars are holding up and if Tesla is making money.
My reasons for considering a Tesla are safety and the tech (I want safety without driving a large car that puts others at undue risk). They seem way out ahead in this area and are likely to be ahead in 3 more years. My concern is having a company that doesn't go bankrupt and reliability. If the company is doing okay, and the cars are holding up or the company stands behind defects, I'll buy... even though it will be more than I have ever even considered spending on a car. My build will be minimal with the autopilot features, and maybe AWD, so that will probably put it at about 40K (The autopilot features that are not standard may run about 2K, and AWD around 3K - less than the 5K for Model S currently).
If there is a better competitor in 2019, I'll reconsider. If I have to buy in 2018, I'll wait and get back in line. The only real risk on the deposit is that Telsa goes under and can't pay them back, but it is only 1K and that is unlikely by 2019, but it is a consideration and a possibility.
Battery makes a lot of the cool features possible and work better. But if it came down to an environmental choice it would be a prius and not a Tesla. I have no range anxiety concerns as where I travel there are chargers already in place, including one a few miles from my house. I will probably only have to charge it once a week on average if it gets 200 miles a charge. So, I can stop for a free charge whenever I have an extra 20 minutes and I'm passing by the local Tesla "station."
Anyone know why the tax credit was limited to the first 200k a year? I actually didn't know there was a limit so good thing I read this board :)
Quote from: mu03eng on April 05, 2016, 12:45:18 PM
Anyone know why the tax credit was limited to the first 200k a year? I actually didn't know there was a limit so good thing I read this board :)
I'm lazy. Here's what I found: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1085549_when-do-electric-car-tax-credits-expire
Quote from: jesmu84 on April 05, 2016, 12:59:09 PM
I'm lazy. Here's what I found: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1085549_when-do-electric-car-tax-credits-expire
I'm even lazier since I didn't even do that, thanks for the info. Sounds like the tax credit was set-up that way. Not sure it makes sense since I'm assuming it's suppose to incentivize scaling up but who knows what politicians think
Quote from: mu03eng on April 05, 2016, 01:02:33 PM
I'm even lazier since I didn't even do that, thanks for the info. Sounds like the tax credit was set-up that way. Not sure it makes sense since I'm assuming it's suppose to incentivize scaling up but who knows what politicians think
Haha. I just realized it didn't explain the "why." My guess is lobbying or simply budget constraints didn't want to pay for too much.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 05, 2016, 12:45:18 PM
Anyone know why the tax credit was limited to the first 200k a year? I actually didn't know there was a limit so good thing I read this board :)
From what I have read the credit is for the 1st 200,000 Teslas sold regardless of which model so 200K of the latest model will not get a credit since you need to subtract the number of vehicles of any model that Tesla already sold. However that doesn't mean you get nothing, the credit is phased out over a 1 year period after that:
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer's vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) ("phase-out period").
Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 05, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
From what I have read the credit is for the 1st 200,000 Teslas sold regardless of which model so 200K of the latest model will not get a credit since you need to subtract the number of vehicles of any model that Tesla already sold. However that doesn't mean you get nothing, the credit is phased out over a 1 year period after that:
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer's vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) ("phase-out period").
Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.
Thanks.
I get the how and the what, but I don't understand the way. Moving to alt vehicles is about getting acquisition expense down because they are competing against high volume, established vehicles where as in the beginning the alt vehicles are pretty low volume until the concept is proven and infrastructure ramps up. So you provide a tax credit to defray that cost until they are on level competitive ground, but that's not the way it's set up. To compete with an industry that makes and sells 15-18 million cars a year....the alt vehicle would need to be making 200k per manufacturer per model per year, not over the lifetime of the manufacturer for all models.
Only way that makes sense is if everything thinks once there are 800,000 total alt vehicles on the roads we've solved the volume/infrastructure problem.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 05, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
From what I have read the credit is for the 1st 200,000 Teslas sold regardless of which model so 200K of the latest model will not get a credit since you need to subtract the number of vehicles of any model that Tesla already sold. However that doesn't mean you get nothing, the credit is phased out over a 1 year period after that:
Correct.
Why the 200K limit? Government give away of our money...? I wouldn't look for a great policy philosophy beyond that... but the argument would be to get electric cars rolling if they had to make a policy argument.... this credit was something the conservatives could offer car companies (probably not thinking of Tesla, but the established companies and those little golf cart type of "cars") and the liberals could point to for the environmental donors. it makes little sense in the scheme of things.
Supposedly electric cars with 200+ mile range should be as cheap or cheaper than ICU cars by 2022.
Elon Musk has talked about something exciting at the second part of the reveal closer to production time... he said he thought part 2 of the reveal would be where the big reservations came in, not part one.
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 05, 2016, 02:07:49 PM
From what I have read the credit is for the 1st 200,000 Teslas sold regardless of which model so 200K of the latest model will not get a credit since you need to subtract the number of vehicles of any model that Tesla already sold. However that doesn't mean you get nothing, the credit is phased out over a 1 year period after that:
The qualified plug-in electric drive motor vehicle credit phases out for a manufacturer's vehicles over the one-year period beginning with the second calendar quarter after the calendar quarter in which at least 200,000 qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer have been sold for use in the United States (determined on a cumulative basis for sales after December 31, 2009) ("phase-out period").
Qualifying vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are eligible for 50 percent of the credit if acquired in the first two quarters of the phase-out period and 25 percent of the credit if acquired in the third or fourth quarter of the phase-out period. Vehicles manufactured by that manufacturer are not eligible for a credit if acquired after the phase-out period.
The way I read this is that you get 2 months after Tesla hits the 200k mark.
So if Tesla is at 190K in late December 18, could there be a scenario where they hold new inventory until January 2019. They could theoretically try producing another 75K by June 2019 and still qualify for the credit. Then they would have until December 2019 for $3,750, which is still a nice rebate from Uncle Sam. I bet Tesla strategically releases these cars to take advantage of the 2 month lag in phase out. It would be perfect for me from my position in life to be able to get this in mid-2019. Just depends how many cars they can turn out.
Quote from: GOO on April 05, 2016, 10:49:08 AM
I too put down the 1K and tentatively plan to buy. I waited until I was somewhere around the low 200,000's (Friday night), as I see no way I'll get the tax credit living in the Midwest and without a highly optioned build (CA will get a lot of the early builds as they want to sell near the factory, and preference will be given to highly optioned builds, and those that already have a Tesla).
I am actually hoping that my 200K plus reservation will put me into 2019 for my decision. Barring an accident, my current car will be 10 years old then, which is when I typically buy a new one. i also don't want an early build. I want a car that has been tweaked and some of the initial design and manufacturing flaws fixed. So, 2019 seems like a good time to have one built, as a lot will be sorted out by then. It will also give me time to see how the early adopter cars are holding up and if Tesla is making money.
My reasons for considering a Tesla are safety and the tech (I want safety without driving a large car that puts others at undue risk). They seem way out ahead in this area and are likely to be ahead in 3 more years. My concern is having a company that doesn't go bankrupt and reliability. If the company is doing okay, and the cars are holding up or the company stands behind defects, I'll buy... even though it will be more than I have ever even considered spending on a car. My build will be minimal with the autopilot features, and maybe AWD, so that will probably put it at about 40K (The autopilot features that are not standard may run about 2K, and AWD around 3K - less than the 5K for Model S currently).
If there is a better competitor in 2019, I'll reconsider. If I have to buy in 2018, I'll wait and get back in line. The only real risk on the deposit is that Telsa goes under and can't pay them back, but it is only 1K and that is unlikely by 2019, but it is a consideration and a possibility.
Battery makes a lot of the cool features possible and work better. But if it came down to an environmental choice it would be a prius and not a Tesla. I have no range anxiety concerns as where I travel there are chargers already in place, including one a few miles from my house. I will probably only have to charge it once a week on average if it gets 200 miles a charge. So, I can stop for a free charge whenever I have an extra 20 minutes and I'm passing by the local Tesla "station."
Did you get any information on any kind of priority? It was all very vague on my end.
I put down my deposit on Saturday. I'm probably looking at a 2019 model (the deposit is refundable). As far as the credit goes, I'm going to bet they take it away altogether anyway.
As of now I plan to buy it with or without the credit. But ask me again in 2019, I could change that.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on April 05, 2016, 04:11:48 PM
Did you get any information on any kind of priority? It was all very vague on my end.
No, Tesla isn't giving out info directly on where you stand in line. I am estimating mine how public statements (which for Tesla means Musk tweeting) on where I stand. And since it isn't as simple as where you are in line, I'm not sure that knowing exactly where I was at would matter to much. The place in line matters for whatever region you are in, but certain factors such as highly optioned builds (50K+) and prior Telsa ownership will bump one up higher within that region. Being in the Midwest already means we won't be a priority region, I imagine. They also want early builds to go to people near the factory so that they can create the improvement loop and have easy access to the cars if they need to study early problems. Tesla is supposed to be good about tweaking the assembly line quickly based upon real work issues that pop up.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 05, 2016, 04:38:45 PM
I put down my deposit on Saturday. I'm probably looking at a 2019 model (the deposit is refundable). As far as the credit goes, I'm going to bet they take it away altogether anyway.
As of now I plan to buy it with or without the credit. But ask me again in 2019, I could change that.
I'm right there with you, and I'll see how things develop and make the real decision in 2019. Or at least hopefully 2019 and not sooner. One maybe able to sell the rights by doing a build for someone else. Little risk as long as the person escrows the money up front or pays the money up front. I know people have done that for the S and currently for the X, selling for as much as 50K. Obviously, the S and X is a different level of buyer and some with plenty of cash where 50K doesn't mean much. Too much hassle/risk for me if the rights are only worth a few grand. But a possible scenario to look into if the decision comes up too soon.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on April 04, 2016, 02:23:49 PM
I took it as the family of 5 will have 2-3 vehicles. The dad has his tesla for everyday driving and the mom has a suburban that the whole gang piles into for trips up to northern wisconsin while towing a boat. No car is perfect and going to fit every consumer, but I would say 90% of people could easily get away with this being the primary car and the family's second car being a gas powered car.
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save $ because you won't have a gas bill," but you have to own an extra gas-powered vehicle to make it a viable option. You'll burn up a lot of those savings in insurance (and financing if you don't own the vehicles outright).
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save the planet even if it costs you more $ to do so," I don't think that plays as well in the $30-40k price point market than it does in the $90-110k market. People are pinching pennies to send kids to school/pay for healthcare/etc, to have buy a $40k indulgence at the green confessional is hard for me to wrap my head around.
Really, I think it's as simple as it works if you have driving habits that keep you in the range. If you don't, it doesn't. Like Tesla said (and someone pointed out here) they think 90% of drivers will have no issue with the range. That means 10% will.
Quote from: jficke13 on April 06, 2016, 09:54:28 AM
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save $ because you won't have a gas bill," but you have to own an extra gas-powered vehicle to make it a viable option. You'll burn up a lot of those savings in insurance (and financing if you don't own the vehicles outright).
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save the planet even if it costs you more $ to do so," I don't think that plays as well in the $30-40k price point market than it does in the $90-110k market. People are pinching pennies to send kids to school/pay for healthcare/etc, to have buy a $40k indulgence at the green confessional is hard for me to wrap my head around.
Really, I think it's as simple as it works if you have driving habits that keep you in the range. If you don't, it doesn't. Like Tesla said (and someone pointed out here) they think 90% of drivers will have no issue with the range. That means 10% will.
The range is really no different of a restriction than where/how mass transit is adopted. There a lot of places where mass transit makes sense because of density, but a lot of places it doesn't. There will be a lot of places where the range of the vehicle will be sufficient for the majority of required activities, and those places will see large adoption. I think it will be much more regionally based and will be very much a suburban adoption. That last part will be interesting given the trend toward city living.
Quote from: jficke13 on April 06, 2016, 09:54:28 AM
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save $ because you won't have a gas bill," but you have to own an extra gas-powered vehicle to make it a viable option. You'll burn up a lot of those savings in insurance (and financing if you don't own the vehicles outright).
If the sales pitch is "Have a Tesla 3 for daily driving, you'll save the planet even if it costs you more $ to do so," I don't think that plays as well in the $30-40k price point market than it does in the $90-110k market. People are pinching pennies to send kids to school/pay for healthcare/etc, to have buy a $40k indulgence at the green confessional is hard for me to wrap my head around.
Really, I think it's as simple as it works if you have driving habits that keep you in the range. If you don't, it doesn't. Like Tesla said (and someone pointed out here) they think 90% of drivers will have no issue with the range. That means 10% will.
Do you only have 1 car? I would say that most families have 2 cars, and due to the price, I doubt they are aiming for young 20 year olds who are single. If you have 2 cars, then the Tesla for one of them is probably cheaper than 2 gas powered cars in terms of powering them.
"It's pretty indulgent/impractical to have a Tesla for 80% of your driving and a gasoline powered car for those other times. I would have to keep two cars and drive them about 50-50. It's impractical.
I love Telsa, would love to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a real issue for some people. Just waving your hands and saying "it's not an issue for most people most of the time" doesn't really address it.''
I really don't see your complaint. Yeah, this population excludes people in the country and young singles with 1 car. Has Tesla said this car is for everyone? It isn't. But for their demographic (I'm assuming Males/females ages 28-50 in urban/suburban areas, which is a huge demographic), this car is very practical. This isn't some SUV made for road trips up north but rather a nice car for daily commutes. Most people in their demographic have (or have access to) a 2nd car. How is this any different then needed a SUV for packing luggage or moving stuff when you everyday car is a small/midsize car?
Even if you only have 1 car and you travel, you would have to be pretty extreme case for this not to work. I drive to madison regularly from the east side of Milwaukee. I could get there and back and still have enough juice to drive around town. I know my hotel downtown has a charging port, along with some groceries in town, and a charging port on the east side. This is in year 2015. I'm assuming by the time this roles out in 2019, there will be charging ports at gas stations and other areas.
The biggest problem for me would be roadtrips cross country, which I sometimes like to do. That said, I wouldn't be taking my Tesla to put on a couple thousand miles while packing it with luggage. And as Tesla said, I would just take the wife's gas powered car or swap with my dad who would love to drive my tesla for a week. I fit their demographic along with lots of other people. This isn't "impractical" for most people.
One Tesla is plenty for me. I won't need a back up. However, I bet there are plenty of people with a back up car that own Tesla's or other electric cars.
It is no different than friends of mine who have to have a big pickup truck (need they say) to pull a boat twice a year, and then have a commuter car for getting back and forth to work, etc. Or others who have a sports car or "luxury" car for summer use and another car for winter and bad weather days.
To me having two cars is a waste, but a significant percentage of the population, it is normal. Amongst my friends it is more common for them to have two vehicles for their personal use than one.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on April 06, 2016, 05:06:36 PM
Do you only have 1 car? I would say that most families have 2 cars, and due to the price, I doubt they are aiming for young 20 year olds who are single. If you have 2 cars, then the Tesla for one of them is probably cheaper than 2 gas powered cars in terms of powering them.
"It's pretty indulgent/impractical to have a Tesla for 80% of your driving and a gasoline powered car for those other times. I would have to keep two cars and drive them about 50-50. It's impractical.
I love Telsa, would love to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a real issue for some people. Just waving your hands and saying "it's not an issue for most people most of the time" doesn't really address it.''
I really don't see your complaint. Yeah, this population excludes people in the country and young singles with 1 car. Has Tesla said this car is for everyone? It isn't. But for their demographic (I'm assuming Males/females ages 28-50 in urban/suburban areas, which is a huge demographic), this car is very practical. This isn't some SUV made for road trips up north but rather a nice car for daily commutes. Most people in their demographic have (or have access to) a 2nd car. How is this any different then needed a SUV for packing luggage or moving stuff when you everyday car is a small/midsize car?
Even if you only have 1 car and you travel, you would have to be pretty extreme case for this not to work. I drive to madison regularly from the east side of Milwaukee. I could get there and back and still have enough juice to drive around town. I know my hotel downtown has a charging port, along with some groceries in town, and a charging port on the east side. This is in year 2015. I'm assuming by the time this roles out in 2019, there will be charging ports at gas stations and other areas.
The biggest problem for me would be roadtrips cross country, which I sometimes like to do. That said, I wouldn't be taking my Tesla to put on a couple thousand miles while packing it with luggage. And as Tesla said, I would just take the wife's gas powered car or swap with my dad who would love to drive my tesla for a week. I fit their demographic along with lots of other people. This isn't "impractical" for most people.
If you go into a showroom (not dealership) and ask for the sales pitch, the first question they will ask you is how many cars do you have. If the answer is zero, most likely they will steer you away from it.
Tesla says 70% of the people inquiring in the showrooms are recommended to
not buy a Tesla. Of course, until now that has been for either the Model S or X which goes for over $100k (80% to 90% of all Tesla's order are the most expensive fully loaded version).
It is really a niche car for rich urban people. The hope is the Model 3 changes this ... we'll find out in about 3 years.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on April 06, 2016, 05:06:36 PM
Do you only have 1 car? I would say that most families have 2 cars, and due to the price, I doubt they are aiming for young 20 year olds who are single. If you have 2 cars, then the Tesla for one of them is probably cheaper than 2 gas powered cars in terms of powering them.
"It's pretty indulgent/impractical to have a Tesla for 80% of your driving and a gasoline powered car for those other times. I would have to keep two cars and drive them about 50-50. It's impractical.
I love Telsa, would love to have a Tesla, but the range thing is a real issue for some people. Just waving your hands and saying "it's not an issue for most people most of the time" doesn't really address it.''
I really don't see your complaint. Yeah, this population excludes people in the country and young singles with 1 car. Has Tesla said this car is for everyone? It isn't. But for their demographic (I'm assuming Males/females ages 28-50 in urban/suburban areas, which is a huge demographic), this car is very practical. This isn't some SUV made for road trips up north but rather a nice car for daily commutes. Most people in their demographic have (or have access to) a 2nd car. How is this any different then needed a SUV for packing luggage or moving stuff when you everyday car is a small/midsize car?
Even if you only have 1 car and you travel, you would have to be pretty extreme case for this not to work. I drive to madison regularly from the east side of Milwaukee. I could get there and back and still have enough juice to drive around town. I know my hotel downtown has a charging port, along with some groceries in town, and a charging port on the east side. This is in year 2015. I'm assuming by the time this roles out in 2019, there will be charging ports at gas stations and other areas.
The biggest problem for me would be roadtrips cross country, which I sometimes like to do. That said, I wouldn't be taking my Tesla to put on a couple thousand miles while packing it with luggage. And as Tesla said, I would just take the wife's gas powered car or swap with my dad who would love to drive my tesla for a week. I fit their demographic along with lots of other people. This isn't "impractical" for most people.
I regularly drive to courthouses in Green Bay (250 mile round trip) and Marinette (close to 300 round trip). I, with some regularity, am up in the counties a few west of there (longer). It wouldn't work for me, and I've copped to the fact that I am in the 10% of people who Tesla has identified as "out of their range" drivers.
Tesla announced today that pre-orders are now 325,000
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 07, 2016, 12:10:22 PM
Tesla announced today that pre-orders are now 325,000
I really hate the use of the term pre-order. Usually when you pre-order something you put down a non-refundable deposit or pay for the whole thing. This really is nothing more than a glorified hand-raiser. I know i won't buy unless I'm in the sweet spot of 18 months from now with the tax credit. Any sooner or later and I probably won't. That's not even considering any advancement in other cars. If this was a true pre-order I bet they would have around 50K.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 07, 2016, 12:10:22 PM
Tesla announced today that pre-orders are now 325,000
Does Tesla plan on using these down payments for product development? They are 375K now, so close to 400 million in cash gotta help out a bit with how much Tesla is burning through, a"ina?
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 07, 2016, 12:10:22 PM
Tesla announced today that pre-orders are now 325,000
Still well, well short of the amount of Toyota Camrys sold last year. While 325K is a huge number for a niche manufacturer like Tesla, it is a blip on the radar (though if everyone that is on the list buys one, it will put them in the neighborhood of Mercedes and BMW-- not globally in the US). Again, there were about 17 million new cars sold last year.
Tesla And Other Tech Giants Scramble For Lithium As Prices Double
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Tesla-And-Other-Tech-Giants-Scramble-For-Lithium-As-Prices-Double.html
"In order to produce a half million cars per year...we would basically need to absorb the entire world's lithium-ion production."
Quote from: Waldo Jeffers on April 18, 2016, 03:57:11 PM
Tesla And Other Tech Giants Scramble For Lithium As Prices Double
http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/Tesla-And-Other-Tech-Giants-Scramble-For-Lithium-As-Prices-Double.html
"In order to produce a half million cars per year...we would basically need to absorb the entire world's lithium-ion production."
Just wait until all the horror stories about the pollution and lost human capital (dead and injured workers) start rolling out regarding the mining of lithium.
Quote from: buckchuckler on April 08, 2016, 05:00:54 PM
Still well, well short of the amount of Toyota Camrys sold last year. While 325K is a huge number for a niche manufacturer like Tesla, it is a blip on the radar (though if everyone that is on the list buys one, it will put them in the neighborhood of Mercedes and BMW-- not globally in the US). Again, there were about 17 million new cars sold last year.
Your argument sounds a lot like something that was said in 1916 ... "it's nice that Mr. Ford is getting strong pre-orders for that Model T thingy, but the fact remains that people are buying millions of horses a year."
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 18, 2016, 05:17:54 PM
Your argument sounds a lot like something that was said in 1916 ... "it's nice that Mr. Ford is getting strong pre-orders for that Model T thingy, but the fact remains that people are buying millions of horses a year."
Nevermind. Im done.
Elon Musk Confirms Tesla's Model 3 Has Nearly 400,000 Orders
http://fortune.com/2016/04/21/tesla-elon-musk-model-3-orders/
Despite consumer reports trashing Tesla
Quote from: tower912 on April 21, 2016, 03:47:16 PM
Despite consumer reports trashing Tesla
They did? The Model S has its highest safety rating in the history of the magazine.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2016/04/19/tesla-shares-fall-consumer-reports-warns-suv-bugs/83233912/
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-reliability-idUSKCN0SE2C520151020
I have little doubt that Tesla will get it worked out. Even the major auto companies have quality issues when rolling out new models. I admire Musk's vision and drive to force the issue of electic cars.
Quote from: mu03eng on April 18, 2016, 04:02:17 PM
Just wait until all the horror stories about the pollution and lost human capital (dead and injured workers) start rolling out regarding the mining of lithium.
No doubt that will happen. It will most likely be totally illogical given the same things happen for all kinds of raw materials, from coal to iron, etc. But what is news and emotional, doesn't have to be logical or pass the common sense test.
Also, wait until a few Tesla driverless cars result in deaths.. it will be hugh news and everyone will say Wow we have to stop this driverless car stuff... Congress will have hearing and blue committees will be appointed to investigate... etc... while 90 deaths a day go unnoticed and uncovered from conventional drivers each and every day in the USA. No different than an electric car starting on fire... big news... yet once every couple of weeks one can pass a burnt out gas car on the interstate going into chicago... not news..
Quote from: reinko on April 07, 2016, 06:24:13 PM
Does Tesla plan on using these down payments for product development? They are 375K now, so close to 400 million in cash gotta help out a bit with how much Tesla is burning through, a"ina?
Yes, that money is not held in trust accounts. Into the general funds. It will be used for production. If they go belly up or run out of cash, you lose your 1K.
Quote from: GOO on April 22, 2016, 09:32:36 AM
No doubt that will happen. It will most likely be totally illogical given the same things happen for all kinds of raw materials, from coal to iron, etc. But what is news and emotional, doesn't have to be logical or pass the common sense test.
Also, wait until a few Tesla driverless cars result in deaths.. it will be hugh news and everyone will say Wow we have to stop this driverless car stuff... Congress will have hearing and blue committees will be appointed to investigate... etc... while 90 deaths a day go unnoticed and uncovered from conventional drivers each and every day in the USA. No different than an electric car starting on fire... big news... yet once every couple of weeks one can pass a burnt out gas car on the interstate going into chicago... not news..
What a cynical bunch... Why choose to focus on this part of the rollout of some pretty cool technology, which we have greater access to as a result of Tesla.
No focusing on it, just replying. But practically, that is how Media and people's minds work.
I can't wait for the tech, mostly for safety reasons. Convenience yes, but mostly for the added safety.
I have my deposit in and am focused on all the good that will come from what Tesla is doing. That was just a side note in response to another poster.
Quote from: GOO on April 25, 2016, 09:55:58 AM
No focusing on it, just replying. But practically, that is how Media and people's minds work.
I can't wait for the tech, mostly for safety reasons. Convenience yes, but mostly for the added safety.
I have my deposit in and am focused on all the good that will come from what Tesla is doing. That was just a side note in response to another poster.
This is how I feel. I really do think that within 15-20 years it will be socially frowned upon to be driving manually. 30k deaths/year from car accidents, with 10K involving DUIs. All it takes is a death of a family member from an avoidable accident and you pros of driving are greatly overshadowed. If the technology is there, we might as well use it.
I know I will be pissed if my car got smashed up by a guy who turned off his autopilot so he could experience the joy of driving himself. Driving isn't a right and if there are safer, affordable options, they should be put into place.