Va Tech ended up regular season 18-13 and 10-8 in ACC league play. They beat Miami in the final game today.
Ahmed Hill redshirted this year due to pre season injury. Buzz took the same position with him as he did with Duane. Will pay off for the Hokies in the long term.
I was unhappy with the way Buzz left us , but I always like to see our former coaches do well. Reflects well on MU.
The man can coach.
He came in and Buzz Cut the first week and got his guys in. Way ahead on the turnaround curve.
''I always like to see our former coaches do well. Reflects well on MU."
Really? How so, hey?
Quote from: tower912 on March 05, 2016, 06:51:50 PM
The man can coach.
Except when he can't....like his last year at MU, or multiple times this year....right?
I keep forgetting, when we lose it is because of the coach...when we win it isn't. When Va Tech wins, it is because of the coach....
Quote from: 4everwarriors on March 05, 2016, 08:49:55 PM
''I always like to see our former coaches do well. Reflects well on MU."
Really? How so, hey?
Positives have a way of transcending borders. Just like when our former players do well ,we are happy because it reflects well on us, same with our coaches and even former administrators. When Crean or Buzz do well and they are profiled in the media, it is frequently mentioned that they coached at Marquette. The more mentions of Marquette with success no matter what the venue the better. I can't stand Larry Williams but I sure wish him success in his new job at Akron. Basically we want MU to allways be associated with success no matter how far removed.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 05, 2016, 08:54:51 PM
Except when he can't....like his last year at MU, or multiple times this year....right?
I keep forgetting, when we lose it is because of the coach...when we win it isn't. When Va Tech wins, it is because of the coach....
Buzz inherited a dumpster fire at Va Tech. In addition to having no players, the program has no history or tradition (other than as a bottom feeder). And in his second year in the meat grinder ACC he finished 10-8, ahead of programs like Syracuse and Pitt - in spite of losing his best player to injury. In a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, Tony Bennett, Jamie Dixon, Mike Brey and the dude from Miami whose name I can't spell - he should win his first Coach of the Year award in his second year.
But you're right, hater - he's not all that. LOL
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 05, 2016, 09:37:03 PM
Buzz inherited a dumpster fire at Va Tech. In addition to having no players, the program has no history or tradition (other than as a bottom feeder). And in his second year in the meat grinder ACC he finished 10-8, ahead of programs like Syracuse and Pitt - in spite of losing his best player to injury. In a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, Tony Bennett, Jamie Dixon, Mike Brey and the dude from Miami whose name I can't spell - he should win his first Coach of the Year award in his second year.
But you're right, hater - he's not all that. LOL
Buzz didn't lose his best player to injury. Seth Allen or Justin Bibbs or Zach LeDay were always going to be the most important piece. Ahmed Hill had a promising first season but it is unknown how he would do with increased competition at his spot with Bibbs improving and Allen becoming eligible.
I said repeatedly in the summer of 2015 that Buzz had top third talent in his program. He missed it by one game. Their final position shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who pays attention.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 05, 2016, 09:37:03 PM
Buzz inherited a dumpster fire at Va Tech. In addition to having no players, the program has no history or tradition (other than as a bottom feeder). And in his second year in the meat grinder ACC he finished 10-8, ahead of programs like Syracuse and Pitt - in spite of losing his best player to injury. In a league with Coach K, Roy Williams, Rick Pitino, Tony Bennett, Jamie Dixon, Mike Brey and the dude from Miami whose name I can't spell - he should win his first Coach of the Year award in his second year.
But you're right, hater - he's not all that. LOL
Are you forgetting the severe lack of talent he left in the cupboard here?
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 05, 2016, 10:03:16 PM
I said repeatedly in the summer of 2015 that Buzz had top third talent in his program. He missed it by one game. Their final position shouldn't be a surprise to anyone who pays attention.
Well, the ACC coaches certainly weren't paying attention. They picked Virginia Tech to finish 14th, ahead of only epic bad Boston College. I'll check the writers, Pomeroy, Sagarin, etc. - my guess is you might have been the only person in America paying attention. Congratulations!
Just checked Pomeroy. He had Virginia Tech 14th in the ACC preseason - #137 nationally, 46 spots behind his 13th place ACC team. He now has them ranked #68, 69 spots higher than when the season started. Their improvement from the start of the year is 3x greater than the next best in the ACC. He makes a boatload of money to pay attention, but he's another one who was asleep at the wheel.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 05, 2016, 10:19:07 PM
Are you forgetting the severe lack of talent he left in the cupboard here?
Sometimes it's immediately, sometimes it's a year down the road but because of the nature of the beast (transfers, recruits not honoring LOIs, etc.) the cupboard always gets bare quickly when there's a coaching change. So, no, I'm not forgetting.
Are you forgetting back to back to back S16, S16, E8 in years 3, 4 and 5 with ZERO players from the TC era. Wojo will have Duane Wilson, Luke Fischer and JJJ in year 3 and Wilson in year 4.
His last season here sucked, but the guy can coach.
His last season sucked because of Buzz the recruiter.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on March 05, 2016, 10:03:16 PM
Buzz didn't lose his best player to injury. Seth Allen or Justin Bibbs or Zach LeDay were always going to be the most important piece.
Exactly
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 05, 2016, 10:44:28 PM
His last season here sucked, but the guy can coach.
...even if he can't flush...
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 05, 2016, 10:20:53 PM
Well, the ACC coaches certainly weren't paying attention. They picked Virginia Tech to finish 14th, ahead of only epic bad Boston College. I'll check the writers, Pomeroy, Sagarin, etc. - my guess is you might have been the only person in America paying attention. Congratulations!
Just checked Pomeroy. He had Virginia Tech 14th in the ACC preseason - #137 nationally, 46 spots behind his 13th place ACC team. He now has them ranked #68, 69 spots higher than when the season started. Their improvement from the start of the year is 3x greater than the next best in the ACC. He makes a boatload of money to pay attention, but he's another one who was asleep at the wheel.
I already knew I might be the only one paying attention to the VT program but it's always nice to get recognition of that. Thank you for the compliment.
Preseason polls.....the absolute definition of no one pays attention or gives a rip. Pomeroy starts with a discrepancy \ bias until enough games are played to matter. I'd expect someone like Lenny to know this.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 05, 2016, 10:55:42 PM
His last season sucked because of Buzz the recruiter.
I think it was more linked to Buzz giving up on Marquette thanks to our Cracker Jack president and the sweat stained cap he brought in to irritate Buzz.
Quote from: PTM on March 06, 2016, 10:07:42 AM
I think it was more linked to Buzz giving up on Marquette thanks to our Cracker Jack president and the sweat stained cap he brought in to irritate Buzz.
So you're saying the coach who demands players never give up under any circumstances, gave up himself....character revealed.
He went 9-9 in his last Big East Season.
We were 9-7 entering Game #17 and we lost Game #17 & #18 both in 2OT. We also lost two earlier conf game ins OT.
Then we lost in our 1st game of the BET by 3.
Buzz never had a losing record in conference.
Quote from: The Lens on March 06, 2016, 01:08:18 PM
He went 9-9 in his last Big East Season.
We were 9-7 entering Game #17 and we lost Game #17 & #18 both in 2OT. We also lost two earlier conf game ins OT.
Then we lost in our 1st game of the BET by 3.
Buzz never had a losing record in conference.
There you go getting all "facty". Facts don't interest Chico. He prefers made up stories from his made up sources. They fit in better with his agenda.
Thanks for the posting. I had not really been following VTech.
Congrats to Buzz
Quote from: The Lens on March 06, 2016, 01:08:18 PM
He went 9-9 in his last Big East Season.
We were 9-7 entering Game #17 and we lost Game #17 & #18 both in 2OT. We also lost two earlier conf game ins OT.
Then we lost in our 1st game of the BET by 3.
Buzz never had a losing record in conference.
We were 2-6 against the 4 teams that made the NCAA tournament in the conference. Led by two seniors (one picked as preseason first team all Big East.....we underperformed considerably.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2016, 07:22:28 PM
We were 2-6 against the 4 teams that made the NCAA tournament in the conference. Led by two seniors (one picked as preseason first team all Big East.....we underperformed considerably.
Absolutely we underperformed. No one would argue that, it was a rough year. But the last two years have taught us that it can get a lot worse. Hopefully we're on the way back up.
Beat St. John's.
He can coach and motivate.
But the last five games (except Miami; game AT Blacksburg, which can be tough) featured three of the ACC's dregs.
They've beaten one ranked team (UVA) and it was at home in a 2-point win.
Yet they've won almost all the conf games they should have.
Can't wait to see what the media narrative is when Buzz is coaching in Stillwater two months from now.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 07, 2016, 08:59:54 AM
Can't wait to see what the media narrative is when Buzz is coaching in Stillwater two months from now.
It is amazing to read the VA Poly people commenting on how Bert is so vested in the school and the kids to ever consider leaving...
Quote from: keefe on March 07, 2016, 09:55:27 AM
It is amazing to read the VA Poly people commenting on how Bert is so vested in the school and the kids to ever consider leaving...
As a fellow survivor of Buzzholm Syndrome I can empathize with them....but I will not be sympathetic.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 07, 2016, 10:01:32 AM
As a fellow survivor of Buzzholm Syndrome I can empathize with them....but I will not be sympathetic.
Character revealed!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 06, 2016, 10:09:03 AM
So you're saying the coach who demands players never give up under any circumstances, gave up himself....character revealed.
I agree is was a phony, lonely cowboy, but ultimately I still maintain he would be at Marquette today if we didn't have a supershitty president that should have never been given the position.
Quote from: PTM on March 07, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
I agree is was a phony, lonely cowboy, but ultimately I still maintain he would be at Marquette today if we didn't have a supercrapty president that should have never been given the position.
...who brought in an AD who treated episodic problems as systemic problems and publicly undercut the coach.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2016, 11:02:20 AM
...who brought in an AD who treated episodic problems as systemic problems and publicly undercut the coach.
While true as well as what PTM said about the prez.....there were no good "characters" in this story.
Buzz produced on the court but his methods and players were a mess off of it. The Prez was about as naive and disinterested in people as you will ever see. The AD was a dictator with a ego that exceeded his skill set. In combination, it was pretty disastrous....individually any one wouldn't have been great but was survivable.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 07, 2016, 11:32:22 AM
The Prez was about as naive and disinterested in people as you will ever see.
Well...he is interested in those of a particular gender...
Quote from: PTM on March 07, 2016, 10:59:14 AM
I agree is was a phony, lonely cowboy, but ultimately I still maintain he would be at Marquette today if we didn't have a supercrapty president that should have never been given the position.
He didn't like being rebuked because someone on his staff lied about a NCAA investigation. He didn't like being rebuked because of how he handled a sexual assault \ rape allegation on campus. He didn't like being rebuked regarding one of his players who never should have been admitted to the university to begin with. So on and so forth.
He wanted a system where no one looked into his stuff. He's got it now. I wish him all the best.
Quote from: tower912 on March 07, 2016, 11:02:20 AM
...who brought in an AD who treated episodic problems as systemic problems and publicly undercut the coach.
Just win baby, no repercussions....coach should be able to do anything he wants.......
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 07, 2016, 05:37:42 PM
Just win baby, no repercussions....coach should be able to do anything he wants.......
You talking about the thrice-cited recruiting violating coach with the multi drug and alcohol citations, including tire tracks over one of his players in his care? Who in his previous job swept many questionable off court issues under the rug, including ones involving his stud freshman PG with females? Or his Bob Marley toking star recruits and players? Or his cash machine robbing marginal recruit? Or his two NCAA investigated prep school diploma mill recruits who "graduated" from the same school as the one mentioned by you? Or a very questionablly admitted JUCO who spent more time in study hall than in practice, and where the coach was so pissed at the academic advisor that he banned said person from tutoring in his program? That coach? Squirmy.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2016, 07:15:45 PM
You talking about the thrice-cited recruiting violating coach with the multi drug and alcohol citations, including tire tracks over one of his players in his care? Who in his previous job swept many questionable off court issues under the rug, including ones involving his stud freshman PG with females? Or his his Bob Marley toking star recruits and players? Or his cash machine robbing marginal recruit? Or his two NCAA investigated prep school diploma mill recruits who "graduated" from the same school as the one mentioned by you? Or a very questionablly admitted JUCO who spent more time in study hall than in practice, and where the coach was so pissed at the academic advisor that he banned said person from tutoring in his program? That coach? Squirmy.
(http://i.imgur.com/xgz9nkR.gif)
Note: I don't care about either coach. They both did good things and bad and have moved on.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 07, 2016, 07:29:27 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/xgz9nkR.gif)
Note: I don't care about either coach. They both did good things and bad and have moved on.
Exactly. Just like you and me and Bo.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2016, 07:15:45 PM
You talking about the thrice-cited recruiting violating coach with the multi drug and alcohol citations, including tire tracks over one of his players in his care? Who in his previous job swept many questionable off court issues under the rug, including ones involving his stud freshman PG with females? Or his Bob Marley toking star recruits and players? Or his cash machine robbing marginal recruit? Or his two NCAA investigated prep school diploma mill recruits who "graduated" from the same school as the one mentioned by you? Or a very questionablly admitted JUCO who spent more time in study hall than in practice, and where the coach was so pissed at the academic advisor that he banned said person from tutoring in his program? That coach? Squirmy.
Nope, I was talking about the one who had an odd way of dealing with Rape on campus by going to the victim like an absolute idiot, had a really odd way of dealing with is boss and didn't understand a boss is someone that is your supervisor, an odd way of allowing one of his assistants to lie that caused him to fire him, etc. That's the one I'm talking about. I didn't think I had to be any clearer, but if need be, let me know.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 08, 2016, 12:09:23 AM
Nope, I was talking about the one who had an odd way of dealing with Rape on campus by going to the victim like an absolute idiot, had a really odd way of dealing with is boss and didn't understand a boss is someone that is your supervisor, an odd way of allowing one of his assistants to lie that caused him to fire him, etc. That's the one I'm talking about. I didn't think I had to be any clearer, but if need be, let me know.
You're an idiot.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 08, 2016, 12:09:23 AM
Nope, I was talking about the one who had an odd way of dealing with Rape on campus by going to the victim like an absolute idiot, had a really odd way of dealing with is boss and didn't understand a boss is someone that is your supervisor, an odd way of allowing one of his assistants to lie that caused him to fire him, etc. That's the one I'm talking about. I didn't think I had to be any clearer, but if need be, let me know.
Your "facts" fit your narrative, not so sure they fit the facts as determined by various investigating authorities. If the facts occurred as you say, Buzz would have been gone in a NY minute, instead of being suspended for the tee shirt incident. There were a slew of other bodies along that way who were dismissed for direct responsibility, while those others responsible for further bringing on the university dysfunction, including Buzz, we're moved along later as well. Luckily, MU is in a better place.
I guess one person's black eye is another's blind eye. Me? I think coaches and athletes are as flawed as the rest of us. To think that CTC is purer than Buzz is a flawed as the St. Bo Posse looking to explain away his many hypocrisies.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 08, 2016, 08:20:35 AM
I guess one person's black eye is another's blind eye. Me? I think coaches and athletes are as flawed as the rest of us. To think that CTC is purer than Buzz is a flawed as the St. Bo Posse looking to explain away his many hypocrisies.
I agree, everyone is flawed. There are degrees of flawed, however, at least in my opinion. Perhaps you disagree. That is fine...to each their own.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 08, 2016, 12:09:23 AM
Nope, I was talking about the one who had an odd way of dealing with Rape on campus by going to the victim like an absolute idiot, had a really odd way of dealing with is boss and didn't understand a boss is someone that is your supervisor, an odd way of allowing one of his assistants to lie that caused him to fire him, etc. That's the one I'm talking about. I didn't think I had to be any clearer, but if need be, let me know.
Buzz had an odd way of dealing with Rape with a capital R? Reckless, bigoted, unsubstantiated by facts - but since you don't like the guy lies and smears based on lies are OK.
Your defense of Pilarz and Larry Williams is revealing. I'll bet dollars to doughnuts you're just like them - incompetent bosses who like to flex their muscles and tell everyone who the boss is. Buzz is the second best basketball coach in Marquette's storied history. His "bosses" were fired before the new paint was dry in their offices - worst administrators in MU history. But you liked them - speaks volumes about you.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 07, 2016, 07:15:45 PM
You talking about the thrice-cited recruiting violating coach with the multi drug and alcohol citations, including tire tracks over one of his players in his care? Who in his previous job swept many questionable off court issues under the rug, including ones involving his stud freshman PG with females? Or his Bob Marley toking star recruits and players? Or his cash machine robbing marginal recruit? Or his two NCAA investigated prep school diploma mill recruits who "graduated" from the same school as the one mentioned by you? Or a very questionablly admitted JUCO who spent more time in study hall than in practice, and where the coach was so pissed at the academic advisor that he banned said person from tutoring in his program? That coach? Squirmy.
Doc posterizes the little man yet again!
Va Tech nice win over Florida State to win first game in ACC tourney.
Maybe we play them in the NIT
Coming up on five years with this gem
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-21/sports/ct-met-marquette-sex-assaults-20110621_1_sexual-assault-sexual-attack-allegation-crimes
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2016, 11:45:17 PM
Coming up on five years with this gem
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-21/sports/ct-met-marquette-sex-assaults-20110621_1_sexual-assault-sexual-attack-allegation-crimes
So....all the news you promised would break two years ago, is really just still news from 5 years ago. Meanwhile, defending Crean by saying IU never wins the B16 title. I know you bleed blue & gold occasionally, but I understand why others think you're mostly being dishonest.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2016, 01:02:55 AM
So....all the news you promised would break two years ago, is really just still news from 5 years ago. Meanwhile, defending Crean by saying IU never wins the B16 title. I know you bleed blue & gold occasionally, but I understand why others think you're mostly being dishonest.
Nailed it, Rocky.
http://www.todaysu.com/acc-today/virginia-tech-hokies/hokies-williams-hot-commodity-coaching-carousel/
So, apparently, the whole rest of the NCAA basketball community views Buzz differently than Chicos. Stunning.
Chicos is right that Buzz made a huge mistake implying that the player should contact the alleged victim. He should have reported it to the AD immediately, and this oversight probably cost Cottingham his job. But Marquette then overreacted, and Buzz doesn't react well in response. The atmosphere became poisonous.
I think a better President and better AD would have been able to navigate those waters better. Perhaps Buzz would have reacted better and still be at MU. But that's all water under the bridge.
Apparently Chicos expected Buzz to not make any mistakes, while simultaneously excusing every mistake the Crean makes. Very odd.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 12, 2016, 12:22:48 PM
Chicos is right that Buzz made a huge mistake implying that the player should contact the alleged victim. He should have reported it to the AD immediately, and this oversight probably cost Cottingham his job. But Marquette then overreacted, and Buzz doesn't react well in response. The atmosphere became poisonous.
I think a better President and better AD would have been able to navigate those waters better. Perhaps Buzz would have reacted better and still be at MU. But that's all water under the bridge.
Apparently Chicos expected Buzz to not make any mistakes, while simultaneously excusing every mistake the Crean makes. Very odd.
Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes? Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.
Buzz's mistakes impacted Marquette University. This is about Buzz and Marquette and the impact to Marquette.
You guys bringing up something that happened at another school by a former coach is irrelevant.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2016, 01:02:55 AM
So....all the news you promised would break two years ago, is really just still news from 5 years ago. Meanwhile, defending Crean by saying IU never wins the B16 title. I know you bleed blue & gold occasionally, but I understand why others think you're mostly being dishonest.
Show me where I promised anything? I never did. I said more shoes would drop, but I also said I Will Not Be the one dropping them. Big difference.
Use that robust search engine on the software you are using, but what you just stated is a complete fabrication as I never said I was breaking any news. I'm not stupid, but I sure as hell know what parties I would bring in legally to back me up if need be.
Quote from: tower912 on March 12, 2016, 11:53:29 AM
So, apparently, the whole rest of the NCAA basketball community views Buzz differently than Chicos. Stunning.
Lol...yup, the rest of the NCAA basketball community...good one.
There will always be some schools that will hire anyone, that doesn't make it the rest of the NCAA basketball community.
Just win baby folks who have no scruples at all, fit this narrative.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:10:47 AM
Lol...yup, the rest of the NCAA basketball community...good one.
There will always be some schools that will hire anyone, that doesn't make it the rest of the NCAA basketball community.
Just win baby folks who have no scruples at all, fit this narrative.
Just because some people appreciated Buzz that doesn't mean we only cared about winning. He graduated players, was successful on the court and usually represented the University well. Sure he made mistakes, many people do, but Marquette made many in its overreaction.
And why have you just devolved your Scoop persona into nothing but a troll with talking points?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 10:16:57 AM
Just because some people appreciated Buzz that doesn't mean we only cared about winning. He graduated players, was successful on the court and usually represented the University well. Sure he made mistakes, many people do, but Marquette made many in its overreaction.
And why have you just devolved your Scoop persona into nothing but a troll with talking points?
Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.
I said often, he's a good coach and I appreciate his coaching abilities. It is the other nonsense that I don't, including the tarnish of the program under his watch, the way he treated people in the athletic dept (friends of mine....yes, Crean was an epic douche in that regard as well), etc, etc.
He's a good coach and a phony character....and I do mean character or caricature, if you wish.
The thing that strikes me most about the Buzz worshippers is that if he merely would have kept his guys in line, things wouldn't have been a problem. But he didn't and couldn't.
Cream was a dick and douche. Buzz was scummy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:04:49 AM
Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes? Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.
Where? Formerly on Dodd's board. On Scoop from its inception to this day. On Peegs (an IU site) as "Jim Television". And likely multiple other places we know nothing about. Ahab was less obsessed with Moby Dick than you are with Tom Crean. The only reason you give a spit about Buzz Williams is that he performed better as an MU coach than Tom Crean. How dare he! So you do everything you can to tear down Buzz because you think it makes Tom Crean more palatable. It doesn't.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:04:49 AM
Where am I excusing Crean's mistakes? Crean coaches Indiana, what he does at IU had no impact to MU.
Buzz's mistakes impacted Marquette University. This is about Buzz and Marquette and the impact to Marquette.
You guys bringing up something that happened at another school by a former coach is irrelevant.
Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4. "Just win, baby".
Here is a fact: Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well. They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:24:56 AM
Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.
Oy. My statement is true. You implied my statement meant something it didn't.
Crean sucks
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 10:36:36 AM
Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4. "Just win, baby".
Here is a fact: Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well. They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.
Poetry, anyone?
(http://marquettewire.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pilarz1.png)
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 10:36:36 AM
Umm...I actually brought up just a "few" of Crean's mistakes that impacted MU (and Buzz), and have followed with him to I4. "Just win, baby".
Here is a fact: Pilarz and Larry would have been on Crean's ass as much as they were on Buzz's (I am still waiting for those raised NCAA academic standards they imposed ahead of the curve on Buzz to be implemented, you now, the ones that would have denied the chance for #3 to be admitted to MU as a JUCO). For both TC and Buzz, the regimes changed, and neither coach reacted well. They left, and fortunately in the latter case, so did the lacking university leadership, to the benefit of things much greater than #MUAD.
Lol
Your examples included stuff at IU that have Zero impact on MU.
As for the ones that happened at MU, please let's compare the arrests, the front page Chicago Tribune articles, the lead stories in channel 12 news, channel 6, channel 4....let's compare those impacts. It isn't even the same planet, let alone ballpark.
Again, if Buzz could have controlled some of his guys, those additional standards would not have been implemented. You guys blame Pilarz and Larry, but forget what their reaction (or over reaction) was in response to....to Buzz's guys screwing up!!
The irony.
Quote from: keefe on March 13, 2016, 10:48:48 AM
Poetry, anyone?
(http://marquettewire.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/Pilarz1.png)
Honest question, you've implied a few things about his sexuality...how is that relevant?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 10:44:22 AM
Oy. My statement is true. You implied my statement meant something it didn't.
No, I gave more depth to your statement. Yes, Buzz graduated some players, but our APR scores went down under Buzz....providing context and depth to your response.
Henry Ellenson makes 3 point shots. True statement. If someone were to follow that up and say he takes a lot of 3's and is not a good three point shooter, that is also accurate and provides a better, more complete answer.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:55:31 AM
No, I gave more depth to your statement. Yes, Buzz graduated some players, but our APR scores went down under Buzz....providing context and depth to your response.
Henry Ellenson makes 3 point shots. True statement. If someone were to follow that up and say he takes a lot of 3's and is not a good three point shooter, that is also accurate and provides a better, more complete answer.
You said my statement wasn't true. It was.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 13, 2016, 11:04:56 AM
You said my statement wasn't true. It was.
Fair enough.
Your statement lacked a lot of credibility because every coach graduates some players. Our APR rates declined, our graduation rate declined. Is that better?
In addition, our police blotter and terrible stories about the program and university regarding the basketball team\program escalated during his time. That is also a true statement if you wish to play this game.
Our APR rates improved from 2004 to 2010 every year, hitting a high in 2010. They have since declined every year since.
Our Graduation rate has also gone down. Stats are always in arrears, so the last graduating cohort is Buzz's first year. Graduation rate of 67%. Prior to that, the previous 6 years were higher, including two years of cohorts at 100% and two others at 87% or higher.
We'll see how things shake out as the new data comes out with additional cohorts added, all of them Buzz's. We won't see Wojo's until 6 years from now.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:51:05 AM
Honest question, you've implied a few things about his sexuality...how is that relevant?
I haven't implied anything.
And for the record I could care less who one hungers for as long as it is not a minor or a subordinate.
Pilarz was and is a disaster as the leader of my alma maters. It pisses me off that my donations are continuing to help pay his salary.
Teaching poetry when he couldn't get his brain around his primary function as Prez underscored how truly out of touch he was as a leader. There is Pilarz and Williams stink all over Marquette's current struggles on the court.
We went from the penthouse to the outhouse in large measure because of that assclown's judgment.
Quote from: keefe on March 13, 2016, 12:03:21 PM
I haven't implied anything.
OK, I guess I read too much into it, but that was my take.
As for Pilarz, there's a reason why MU is no longer just allowing Jesuits to be president. As for Larry, what would you have him do when his bosses are telling him to get control over a coach that has his team KILLING the university in the press with their actions? Absolutely killing the university?
I'm being serious? Buzz made some massive mistakes with some of the players he brought in and it hurt the university. I know that pisses people off that Buzz left when he was "squeezed", but he was squeezed for a reason.....that's on Buzz. It amazes me how many people give this guy a free pass. If his guys didn't fuk up so badly, including his staff and players and Buzz personally, then the squeezing wouldn't have happened. Was it an overreaction? Probably, but again....what caused the overreaction? Buzz's guys. For every overreaction, there is something that led to it.
Buzz is better off being at a school where basketball is second fiddle, where the local rags will cover for the school and bury stuff. That's not going to happen at MU, where we are a private school in a big city, and people already wanting to take shots at us. The press will do us no favors.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:24:56 AM
Buzz's APR graduation rates at MU are down, so your statement is not true.
APR and graduation rates are two different things.
(Although the performance of both with Buzz were not strong)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:50:39 AM
Lol
Your examples included stuff at IU that have Zero impact on MU.
As for the ones that happened at MU, please let's compare the arrests, the front page Chicago Tribune articles, the lead stories in channel 12 news, channel 6, channel 4....let's compare those impacts. It isn't even the same planet, let alone ballpark.
Again, if Buzz could have controlled some of his guys, those additional standards would not have been implemented. You guys blame Pilarz and Larry, but forget what their reaction (or over reaction) was in response to....to Buzz's guys screwing up!!
The irony.
Hmmm...you may want to try reading my post again instead of machinegun firing back response after response...as I included quite a few MU examples of CTC's other legacy. I know love is blind...but come on.
Btw, your Pilarz and Larry defense is comical vs. their reality at this great university, way outside of the Buzz situation. As I said, the BOT stepped in an moved all the participants along, with a push or a nudge, Buzz included.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2016, 12:16:20 PM
APR and graduation rates are two different things.
(Although the performance of both with Buzz were not strong)
That is correct, which is why I stated it that way....when I said graduation rates have "also" gone down.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on March 13, 2016, 12:20:59 PM
Hmmm...you may want to try reading my post again instead of machinegun firing back response after response...as I included quite a few MU examples of CTC's other legacy. I know love is blind...but come on.
Btw, your Pilarz and Larry defense is comical vs. their reality at this great university, way outside of the Buzz situation. As I said, the BOT stepped in an moved all the participants along, with a push or a nudge, Buzz included.
You may want to read my response, ACKNOWLEDGING that you provided examples of both, but that you ALSO included one of IU. Irony.
How am I defending Pilarz? I'm not.
As for Larry, he followed the directions of his superiors. That's what subordinates are supposed to do, or resign if you don't think it is right. BOT was plenty pissed off about Buzz's bunch (and I don't mean the kids) and the drag on the university. The problem on this board is that everyone views it with a basketball lens, not a university lens. 80% of the students, alumni, etc, don't give a rip about MU basketball or don't follow it. They don't like seeing their university dragged through the mud because the basketball coach couldn't get his guys to stop being on the front pages and top stories in the news for all the wrong reasons. Trips to the Sweet 16 don't erase that stuff. For the record, that's the same reason Crean has gotten into trouble, because of that stuff. Heads eventually roll.
No matter which lens you wear, we suck. And that's not good for anybody.
Quote from: Blackhat on March 13, 2016, 01:40:57 PM
No matter which lens you wear, we suck. And that's not good for anybody.
We don't suck....my God. I went to school under Bob Dukiet and Kevin O'Neill's first few years...that was sucking.
Perspective is key.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 01:50:18 PM
We don't suck....my God. ...that was sucking.
To quote Doc; "Crean sucks"
Our bar had been raised by Crean and Buzz. Wojo's nosedived into the bar so far. Better pick it up.
Quote from: Blackhat on March 13, 2016, 03:05:31 PM
Our bar had been raised by Crean and Buzz. Wojo's nosedived into the bar so far. Better pick it up.
Buzz walked into a scenario that is to dream for. Wojo walked into a scenario where the Big East isn't what the Big East used to be...not his fault. Where the previous coach left him ill fitting parts and a team that didn't even make the NIT.
Two radically different situations.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 03:26:03 PM
Buzz walked into a scenario that is to dream for. Wojo walked into a scenario where the Big East isn't what the Big East used to be...not his fault. Where the previous coach left him ill fitting parts and a team that didn't even make the NIT.
Two radically different situations.
BS. Buzz walked into a very dangerous scenario - loaded in year 1, cupboard almost bare in year 2, totally bare (as in zero players remaining) in year 3. So people who didn't like the hire (you mainly) gave him no credit for year one and were poised to pounce in years 2 and 3. When Buzz succeeded in years 2, 3 and beyond you were stunned and publicly humiliated. So the hate grew.
For Wojo, year 1 was easy - zero expectations. This year was touger and maybe people (myself included) had unrealistic hopes. In year 3 he will have JJJ, Luke and Duane left over from the Buzz regime - maybe not national championship players but Buzz went to the S16 in year 3 with no holdovers from Crean. So next year's a big one for Steve.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 13, 2016, 10:07:57 AM
Show me where I promised anything? I never did. I said more shoes would drop, but I also said I Will Not Be the one dropping them. Big difference.
Use that robust search engine on the software you are using, but what you just stated is a complete fabrication as I never said I was breaking any news. I'm not stupid, but I sure as hell know what parties I would bring in legally to back me up if need be.
Dude!? You're losing it, here's what I said...
Quote from: rocky_warrior on March 12, 2016, 01:02:55 AM
So....all the news you promised would break two years ago, is really just still news from 5 years ago. Meanwhile, defending Crean by saying IU never wins the B16 title. I know you bleed blue & gold occasionally, but I understand why others think you're mostly being dishonest.
So...uh, who's got a comprehension issue? You might want to check yourself before you wreck yourself.