Anybody else see the end of that Warriors / Thunder game last night?
Wasn't watching, but saw the highlights.
He is playing at another level right now.
That was one of the best NBA games I have ever seen. Durant was also insane, too bad he fouled out.
Watched a lot of hops in my day and I always thought Otis Birdsong, yes Otis Birdsong, was the best shooter I have ever seen. Until Curry this year. He is just unconscious and is so quick with his release. Like they are saying, Curry is like a video game.
Quote from: nyg on February 28, 2016, 09:07:54 AM
That was one of the best NBA games I have ever seen. Durant was also insane, too bad he fouled out.
Watched a lot of hops in my day and I always thought Otis Birdsong, yes Otis Birdsong, was the best shooter I have ever seen. Until Curry this year. He is just unconscious and is so quick with his release. Like they are saying, Curry is like a video game.
Birdsong was a great shooter. Looked him up and realized he was picked 2nd in the '77 draft...right behind Kent Benson by the Bucks. I suspect the Bucks would take a mulligan on that one...
What amazes me is, besides his incredible shooting, how good of a passer he is as well.
Just saw the highlights ... unbelievable
He tied the NBA record with 12 threes.
That last three to win the game was stupid shot for anyone else on the planet. For Curry it was probably a designed play.
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 28, 2016, 10:16:59 AM
Just saw the highlights ... unbelievable
He tied the NBA record with 12 threes.
That last three to win the game was stupid shot for anyone else on the planet. For Curry it was probably a designed play.
Just saw a highlight of his week. In three separate games, Curry hit 30+ foot shots. The 32-foot winner last night was the shortest of the three.
Quote from: Heisenberg on February 28, 2016, 10:16:59 AM
Just saw the highlights ... unbelievable
He tied the NBA record with 12 threes.
That last three to win the game was stupid shot for anyone else on the planet. For Curry it was probably a designed play.
His season this year compares favorably to MJ's best year.
Really looking forward to the West Finals this year. Spurs are quietly putting up a 50-9 season.
My son and I were watching last night. Un-freakin-believable.
Some of the shots he made were beyond ridiculous and insane, and the game-winner was stupid.
As a 50-something, I often chuckle at those who think today's whatever (quarterback, hitter, musician, etc) is the "best ever" because lack proper historical perspective.
But Curry absolutely is the best shooter I have ever seen. And frankly, I'm not sure it's even close between him and the next guy. (Allen? Bird? Reggie? Kerr?)
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2016, 05:17:48 PM
My son and I were watching last night. Un-freakin-believable.
Some of the shots he made were beyond ridiculous and insane, and the game-winner was stupid.
As a 50-something, I often chuckle at those who think today's whatever (quarterback, hitter, musician, etc) is the "best ever" because lack proper historical perspective.
But Curry absolutely is the best shooter I have ever seen. And frankly, I'm not sure it's even close between him and the next guy. (Allen? Bird? Reggie? Kerr?)
Mike - that was only his second best game of the week. Check out his stats from the previous game.
Last night he had 46 on 10-24 from the field; 3 reb. and 6 assists
Thursday he had 51 on 20-27 from the field; 7 reb. and 8 assists
Quote from: MU82 on February 28, 2016, 05:17:48 PM
My son and I were watching last night. Un-freakin-believable.
Some of the shots he made were beyond ridiculous and insane, and the game-winner was stupid.
As a 50-something, I often chuckle at those who think today's whatever (quarterback, hitter, musician, etc) is the "best ever" because lack proper historical perspective.
But Curry absolutely is the best shooter I have ever seen. And frankly, I'm not sure it's even close between him and the next guy. (Allen? Bird? Reggie? Kerr?)
all good ones. curry is sick. his dad, dell was tough. remember a few more back in the day(as a small lad of course) john havlicek, rick barry, larry bird...
I have watched a lot of ball over the years and he is the greatest shooter I have ever seen by a wide margin. Over the past month I have made a point to watch as much Warrior action as possible because it is once in a lifetime season/team.
Very difficult to find faults in Curry as a person and the Warriors as a whole. I am going to enjoy the run
Sometimes when I watch him it makes me think I'm watching a basketball version of Angels in the Outfield.
Quote from: Goose on February 28, 2016, 07:05:10 PM
I have watched a lot of ball over the years and he is the greatest shooter I have ever seen by a wide margin. Over the past month I have made a point to watch as much Warrior action as possible because it is once in a lifetime season/team.
Very difficult to find faults in Curry as a person and the Warriors as a whole. I am going to enjoy the run
I totally agree, Goose.
The Warriors are the only sports right now that is "must-see TV." An incredible reality show.
Curry is right. All the former players who are trying to trash the Warriors is getting annoying. I love that the Warriors won the NBA Title...and came into this season pissed off because some teams with a bunch of whack jobs on it (Clippers, I'm looking at you) said they were lucky because they avoided the Spurs and the Clippers. Great responses by the Warriors players in saying they were hoping they got the chance to knock off those teams, but those teams never made it to the Warriors. Now you have old timers saying Curry's not good for the game and wouldn't be able to do what he's doing in the old days. I'm glad it's lighting a fire under their ass. Not a fan of Draymond or really Klay, but everyone else on that team is awesome and they're very fun to watch.
Also glad to see all the some current NBA greats calling out those old timers.
http://espn.go.com/espn/story/_/page/instantawesome-curryreaction-160227/nba-players-awe-curry-huge-night
Not sure why we always have to be talking about different eras. Appreciate greatness. The Warriors are great. Curry is great.
And Durant is great, too.
PS Keep in mind that Curry tweeked his ankle pretty good in the 3rd quarter last night.
I believe in his last 4 games his low point total is 36 points and his low shooting % is 48% and 45% from 3.
Quote from: Goose on February 28, 2016, 07:05:10 PM
I have watched a lot of ball over the years and he is the greatest shooter I have ever seen by a wide margin. Over the past month I have made a point to watch as much Warrior action as possible because it is once in a lifetime season/team.
Very difficult to find faults in Curry as a person and the Warriors as a whole. I am going to enjoy the run
100% agree. He takes and routinely makes shots that would be low percentage prayers for anyone else who has ever played the game. People who claim to love basketball but won't watch the NBA don't know what they're missing.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 28, 2016, 10:20:27 PM
Not a fan of Draymond or really Klay, but everyone else on that team is awesome and they're very fun to watch.
Love those 2 guys.
Best 2 guard and 2nd best PF in the league.
Replace Kevin Love with Draymond and Cleveland would have a chance at the title.
I just can't imagine why anybody would have any problem recognizing and appreciating what Curry is doing right now. He's amazing and I think seems like a really likable guy.
On the radio this morning, they mentioned that in the past week, Curry has made more three pointers (33) than Michael Jordan made in 11 of his 15 seasons. That's pretty crazy.
I realize, of course, Michael wasn't a three point gunner, and I'm not suggesting Curry is better than Jordan. That was just a cool stat that helped illustrate how incredibly well Curry is playing right now.
Just looking at the stats, the average NBA team takes 10 more 3 point shots per game than in Jordan's last year with the Bulls, and makes them at the same clip.
The game is very different now. It has become an outside / in game versus the opposite.
The crazy thing about Steph is how clutch he is and first player in a while that will stop people in their tracks. We had a bunch of people over at our house for a casual get together. We were sitting around, having beers, playing cards against humanity with the game on in the background. The last minute of regulation and OT everyone stopped what they were doing to watch, regardless of interest or gender. The shot in OT to win....we knew it was going in before it even left his hand, whos the last player who we could say that about?
Crazy stat I saw on twitter but can't find now: Steph has like 600 3pt buckets made since 2014....Bird has 659 in his career. If that alone doesn't say Steph is the greatest shooter ever, I don't know what does.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 29, 2016, 09:22:42 AM
Crazy stat I saw on twitter but can't find now: Steph has like 600 3pt buckets made since 2014....Bird has 659 in his career. If that alone doesn't say Steph is the greatest shooter ever, I don't know what does.
It is crazy -- even if, like Sultan said, a big part of it is because the game has changed. But still...he's been amazing.
And you're correct that Bird had 659 career threes. Curry has had 574 in the past two seasons, and he's still got another 24 games to play this season. If you add in the 2013-14 season, he's got 835.
If he averages a hair over 3.5/game the rest of the season (he has been averaging 5+/game), he'll have more in this two season span than Bird had in his career.
All that said, he's young and is going to have to keep playing at a high level for a number of years to equal Ray Allen. But it's fun watching him while he's at the top of his game.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on February 29, 2016, 09:47:38 AM
It is crazy -- even if, like Sultan said, a big part of it is because the game has changed. But still...he's been amazing.
I don't understand this qualification that people throw out there. It makes sense if you are talking about someone like Draymon Green or even why Steve Novak got a contract for 10 years. However, what Steph is able to do is transferable to any basketball era. He is deadly because he doesn't require the space that others do now to create his shot. Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.
I think this is one of the times where the "back in my day folks" are just wrong and are looking to protect their legacy.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 29, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
I don't understand this qualification that people throw out there. It makes sense if you are talking about someone like Draymon Green or even why Steve Novak got a contract for 10 years. However, what Steph is able to do is transferable to any basketball era. He is deadly because he doesn't require the space that others do now to create his shot. Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.
I think this is one of the times where the "back in my day folks" are just wrong and are looking to protect their legacy.
One of the amazing things (another one) is that, time-wise, his highest shooting percentage from 3 is when there are 0-4 seconds left on the clock. Almost 60%!!
That is normally a time when a team is scrambling and a lot of bad shots are thrown at the basket. This guy has no "bad" shots.
Quote from: brandx on February 29, 2016, 10:08:44 AM
One of the amazing things (another one) is that, time-wise, his highest shooting percentage from 3 is when there are 0-4 seconds left on the clock. Almost 60%!!
That is normally a time when a team is scrambling and a lot of bad shots are thrown at the basket. This guy has no "bad" shots.
+1
Quote from: mu03eng on February 29, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
I don't understand this qualification that people throw out there. It makes sense if you are talking about someone like Draymon Green or even why Steve Novak got a contract for 10 years. However, what Steph is able to do is transferable to any basketball era. He is deadly because he doesn't require the space that others do now to create his shot. Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.
I think this is one of the times where the "back in my day folks" are just wrong and are looking to protect their legacy.
I think it matters only because in other eras he might not have been given the opportunity to shoot so many threes. The offenses were different and they would have been looking for different shots. I have absolutely no doubt Steph would have been just as successful then, but it probably would have been a different success. I don't think that recognizing that the number of threes he is hitting is affected by his era diminishes him in any way. I agree with you that people who want to diminish Steph as a player because of his era are off base.
Quote from: brandx on February 28, 2016, 11:35:19 PM
Love those 2 guys.
Best 2 guard and 2nd best PF in the league.
Replace Kevin Love with Draymond and Cleveland would have a chance at the title.
Hahahahahaha, Klay is no where near the 2nd best 2 guard in the league. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5. Take Curry out of that backcourt and Klay wouldn't do nearly as well as he does now. And in case you're curious to who my top 5 are...
Harden
JFB
Wade
Westbrook (he's not really a PG)
Derozan
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on February 29, 2016, 08:28:32 PM
Hahahahahaha, Klay is no where near the 2nd best 2 guard in the league. I wouldn't even put him in the top 5. Take Curry out of that backcourt and Klay wouldn't do nearly as well as he does now. And in case you're curious to who my top 5 are...
Harden
JFB
Wade
Westbrook (he's not really a PG)
Derozan
Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.
And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.
James Harden is a guard version of Kevin Love in Minnesota.
Wade is old and breaking down.
Jimmy has become selfish.
Quote from: brandx on February 29, 2016, 10:06:46 PM
Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.
And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.
I don't know if he's the best 2G in the league, but I definitely think he's almost underrated because he gets overshadowed by Curry's incredible play. On any other team, Klay's scoring ability and shooting touch would be shocking.
Quote from: brandx on February 29, 2016, 10:06:46 PM
Jimmy has become selfish.
He's basically tied with Rose for the team lead in Assists and has the best A/TO ratio on the team. Does he look for his shot a lot more now? Absolutely. Does he view himself as the alpha dog on the team? Probably. Does this make him selfish? I don't think so. He's far from Harden or other gunners.
Quote from: JWags85 on March 01, 2016, 02:14:31 AM
He's basically tied with Rose for the team lead in Assists and has the best A/TO ratio on the team. Does he look for his shot a lot more now? Absolutely. Does he view himself as the alpha dog on the team? Probably. Does this make him selfish? I don't think so. He's far from Harden or other gunners.
I think the alpha dog conflict between Rose and Butler has caused most of Jimmy's problems. I didn't mean that he or his game are selfish - it is based more on his situation.
Quote from: mu03eng on February 29, 2016, 09:56:31 AM
Steph Curry would score and shoot at this rate regardless of the era, his skill set is that unique.
I'm already on record saying Steph is amazing and the best shooter I have ever seen.
I will quibble just a tad with the "score at this rate" part of this, though. If Steph played in the era before 3-pointers -- or even in the era before 3-pointers were taken so frequently -- he obviously wouldn't score quite as much.
How much more would West, Goodrich, Monroe, Maravich, etc, have scored if they played in an era in which players were encouraged to take 4, 6, even 10+ 3-pointers per game? Heck, how much more would Bird have scored if the NBA were an outside-in game as it has become?
Not NBA but illustrative of this topic ...
The greatest individual college performance I ever personally witnessed was Scott Skiles scoring 45 for Michigan State at Minnesota in January 1986. At least half of Skiles' shots were from NBA 3-point range, but the Big Ten didn't have 3-pointers that season. It had experimented with it in an earlier season but not that year, and the NCAA didn't officially add the 3-point line until the following season. Skiles would have had 60 points that game and would have added several points to his scoring average that season had there been 3s.
Again, I'm not trying to knock down Steph one iota. I love watching him play.
Quote from: MU82 on March 01, 2016, 09:40:56 AM
I'm already on record saying Steph is amazing and the best shooter I have ever seen.
I will quibble just a tad with the "score at this rate" part of this, though. If Steph played in the era before 3-pointers -- or even in the era before 3-pointers were taken so frequently -- he obviously wouldn't score quite as much.
How much more would West, Goodrich, Monroe, Maravich, etc, have scored if they played in an era in which players were encouraged to take 4, 6, even 10+ 3-pointers per game? Heck, how much more would Bird have scored if the NBA were an outside-in game as it has become?
Not NBA but illustrative of this topic ...
The greatest individual college performance I ever personally witnessed was Scott Skiles scoring 45 for Michigan State at Minnesota in January 1986. At least half of Skiles' shots were from NBA 3-point range, but the Big Ten didn't have 3-pointers that season. It had experimented with it in an earlier season but not that year, and the NCAA didn't officially add the 3-point line until the following season. Skiles would have had 60 points that game and would have added several points to his scoring average that season had there been 3s.
Again, I'm not trying to knock down Steph one iota. I love watching him play.
It's a fair point and let me clarify/update/be more specific with my comment. I shouldn't have said just "at this rate" I should have said "at this rate relative to the era". Meaing, Steph would be the leading score in any era, but he might not be the absolute scoring leader he is now in another era.
Steph's efficiency translates all eras, he is just a better scorer than anyone else regardless of rules. Considering his 3pt% is near the 2pt% of some all timers in West's day not having a 3pt line wouldn't really matter as much.
Now where this does breakdown(pardon the pun) is the health standpoint. Steph is living in an era where you can grotesquely sprain an ankle and come back and play in 15 minutes and can play at a high level for 15 years before you breakdown. Larry Bird was stopped not because opponents figured him out but because his back got so horrible he was essentially playing with a turtle shell for his last couple of seasons. So could Steph take the beating of the bad boy Pistons or be ready to go two days after an OT game in cardboard sneakers and a bump flight with 4 stops to get from NY to San Fran? That stuff is what makes comparing eras so difficult.
Conversely (ha), after watching all of the Oscar Robertson footage I could find, he never went to his left and there was no such thing as help defense. Also, the Big O was the same size as Wes Matthews. The difference is that the guys guarding Robertson were the size of Traci Carter. So, yes, there are differences in every era. But to attempt to diminish what Curry is doing right now is a losing fight. He is off the charts right now.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 01, 2016, 10:24:37 AM
It's a fair point and let me clarify/update/be more specific with my comment. I shouldn't have said just "at this rate" I should have said "at this rate relative to the era". Meaing, Steph would be the leading score in any era, but he might not be the absolute scoring leader he is now in another era.
Steph's efficiency translates all eras, he is just a better scorer than anyone else regardless of rules. Considering his 3pt% is near the 2pt% of some all timers in West's day not having a 3pt line wouldn't really matter as much.
Now where this does breakdown(pardon the pun) is the health standpoint. Steph is living in an era where you can grotesquely sprain an ankle and come back and play in 15 minutes and can play at a high level for 15 years before you breakdown. Larry Bird was stopped not because opponents figured him out but because his back got so horrible he was essentially playing with a turtle shell for his last couple of seasons. So could Steph take the beating of the bad boy Pistons or be ready to go two days after an OT game in cardboard sneakers and a bump flight with 4 stops to get from NY to San Fran? That stuff is what makes comparing eras so difficult.
Outstanding points, one and all.
Quote from: MU82 on March 01, 2016, 12:17:12 PM
Outstanding points, one and all.
(https://maximumwage.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/yeah.gif?w=640)
Quote from: brandx on February 29, 2016, 10:06:46 PM
Basketball experts would disagree. There is a reason that Wiggins was traded for Kevin Love. It is because GS would not trade him.
And the only guy on your list I would take before Klay is Westbrook. Klay is a better shooter than any of the guys on your list and is a very good defensive player as well. Unlike all the others on your list, Klay gets his 24 a game is the context of their open offense. All the others - except for maybe Derozan - need to own the ball all of the time to get numbers.
James Harden is a guard version of Kevin Love in Minnesota.
Wade is old and breaking down.
Jimmy has become selfish.
Klay is "better", because he plays with Steph, which isn't a knock, it's just a fact. Klay Thompson on the Bucks vs. Harden on the Rockets, it's no question it's Harden. In a vacuum, I think most folks would think Harden is the better player. Klay is top 5 SG, who plays with #1 PG, (not to mention Draymond and a top 5 coach).
Harden is better than Klay Thompson. Thompson may fit what the Warriors want to do better, but Harden was mentioned for MVP last year and is the top player on his team.
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/update-every-steph-curry-three-pointer-from-28-feet-t-1761945112
I could watch this for forever.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on March 02, 2016, 08:39:54 AM
Harden is better than Klay Thompson. Thompson may fit what the Warriors want to do better, but Harden was mentioned for MVP last year and is the top player on his team.
Or.... maybe Klay fits into the Warriors style by not doing everything he could (just like Harden in OKC) if he was on a team where he could dominate the ball like Harden does. Klay is a much better player for Golden State than Harden was for OKC.
But, Klay obviously has a much lower usage percentage than Harden so we have no way of knowing.
Quote from: brandx on March 02, 2016, 12:20:25 PM
Or.... maybe Klay fits into the Warriors style by not doing everything he could (just like Harden in OKC) if he was on a team where he could dominate the ball like Harden does. Klay is a much better player for Golden State than Harden was for OKC.
But, Klay obviously has a much lower usage percentage than Harden so we have no way of knowing.
Let's not get carried away. Klay scores more than Harden did in OKC but, other than that, their numbers are pretty similar despite Harden's lower usage and nearly 7 fewer min/gm.
Harden's 3 years in OKC
26.7 min
12.7 ppg
FGA: 8.6
PPS: 1.48
FG%: 44.4
3P%: 37.0
TS%: .605
Reb: 3.4
Ast: 2.5
Stl: 1.1
TO: 1.6
17.2 PER
USG% 20.4
WS: 21.0
WS/48: .171
VORP: 6.9
Klay's last 3 seasons (includes this season)
33.5 min
20.5 ppg
FGA: 16.4
PPS: 1.15
FG%: 45.7
3P%: 42.3
TS%: .579
Reb: 3.3
Ast: 2.5
Stl: 0.9
TO: 1.8
17.5 PER
USG% 25.3
WS: 21.2
WS/48: .141
VORP: 6.0
Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.
I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2016, 01:42:37 PM
Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.
I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.
Your right because they already have Curry to take that many shots. Look at Thompsons performance last night without Curry. His shooting percentage was dreadful and took as many shots as Harden would any given night. He's no where near the player he is with Curry playing right next to him.
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2016, 01:42:37 PM
Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.
I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.
I can't argue with any of that. However, none of it means Thompson is a better player than Harden.
Thompson fits perfectly in the Warriors' system. Harden wouldn't. That's why GS wouldn't make the trade. I doubt Houston would make it either. Thompson's a #2 guy. Harden is an alpha.
Prior to this season, NBA GMs voted James Harden the best SG in the NBA over Thompson (79.3% to 10.9% - Harden's % went up from 63% in '14-'15).
http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/ (http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/)
Quote from: MU82 on March 02, 2016, 01:42:37 PM
Y'all do know that Thompson is an excellent defender and a very good team player while Harden is a classic me-first scorer who could give a rat's rump about defense.
I am guessing that many, many NBA coaches/GMs would take Thompson over Harden, especially if they already had another scorer on the team. I am 99% certain the Warriors wouldn't trade Thompson straight-up for Harden.
You're right GSW wouldn't trade him, and right Klay is a very capable defender (much better than JH).
Harden with 3 All NBA team made (2 of which were first team), the player who has higher averages in every statistical offensive category (points, steals, blocks, assists) tips the scales for me. And yes, the me first mentality is popular with Harden, but without looking, have an idea how many assists per game Klay averages, vs. Harden...it's stunning.
Agree to disagree my friend!
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 02, 2016, 02:25:35 PM
I can't argue with any of that. However, none of it means Thompson is a better player than Harden.
Thompson fits perfectly in the Warriors' system. Harden wouldn't. That's why GS wouldn't make the trade. I doubt Houston would make it either. Thompson's a #2 guy. Harden is an alpha.
Prior to this season, NBA GMs voted James Harden the best SG in the NBA over Thompson (79.3% to 10.9% - Harden's % went up from 63% in '14-'15).
http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/ (http://www.nba.com/news/features/john_schuhmann/nba-com-2015-16-gm-survey/)
Just my opinion on Klay. I fully understand the people that side with Harden. He is a great offensive player. But if you want to run an offense like GS or SA - the two dominant teams in the league - you want Klay, not Harden. There was a reason that Klay was the 1st choice of the Cavs (not Kevin Love) when they were looking to trade Wiggins.
If you are one of the teams that's always around .500 every year, you would take harden in a second. Harden is a lot closer to Carmelo than he is to Steph.
Quote from: reinko on March 02, 2016, 02:26:20 PM
You're right GSW wouldn't trade him, and right Klay is a very capable defender (much better than JH).
Harden with 3 All NBA team made (2 of which were first team), the player who has higher averages in every statistical offensive category (points, steals, blocks, assists) tips the scales for me. And yes, the me first mentality is popular with Harden, but without looking, have an idea how many assists per game Klay averages, vs. Harden...it's stunning.
Agree to disagree my friend!
I disagree that we actually disagree much!
I wasn't saying Klay is the better player. I'm saying that a lot of GMs would opt for Thompson and the Warriors certainly would just because of the way Thompson might fit a team's personnel and personality.
Harden obviously has superior offensive numbers across the board.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 02, 2016, 02:03:40 PM
Your right because they already have Curry to take that many shots. Look at Thompsons performance last night without Curry. His shooting percentage was dreadful and took as many shots as Harden would any given night. He's no where near the player he is with Curry playing right next to him.
Curry is not a gunner by any means, nor does he dominate the ball like Harden or Rose. He takes
less than 1 more shot than Klay every twelve minutes.
Quote from: brandx on March 02, 2016, 11:22:35 PM
Curry is not a gunner by any means, nor does he dominate the ball like Harden or Rose. He takes less than 1 more shot than Klay every twelve minutes.
Averages
Curry: 33.9 min, 20.0 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 21.3 FGA
Harden: 37.7 min, 19.5 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 18.6 FGA
Thompson: 33.1 min, 17.0 FGA, USG% 26.3, Per 36 min: 18.5 FGA
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on March 03, 2016, 09:02:51 AM
Averages
Curry: 33.9 min, 20.0 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 21.3 FGA
Harden: 37.7 min, 19.5 FGA, USG% 32.7, Per 36 min: 18.6 FGA
Thompson: 33.1 min, 17.0 FGA, USG% 26.3, Per 36 min: 18.5 FGA
So it is 1 shot less per 12 minutes for Klay.
My whole point here was not to disparage Harden - he is a great player. Based on the NBA game of 5 years ago or even 3 years ago, I would have said Harden was a much better player. But the game has changed.
Quote from: brandx on March 03, 2016, 12:19:44 PM
So it is 1 shot less per 12 minutes for Klay.
My whole point here was not to disparage Harden - he is a great player. Based on the NBA game of 5 years ago or even 3 years ago, I would have said Harden was a much better player. But the game has changed.
I would love to see Klay play a full season with Patrick Beverly as his starting point guard.
For the NBA, I'm a big fan of the Wins Produced stat, and in particular, the WP48 stat.
Curry is having the best WP48 statistical season in over 20 years.
For an MU tie-in, JFB ranks as the 18th best player in the NBA and Jae Crowder is quietly the 21st best player.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 03, 2016, 12:47:45 PM
I would love to see Klay play a full season with Patrick Beverly as his starting point guard.
My guess? He would score more and not be seen as good of a player as he is now.
But, in reality, Beverly is the PG in name only. Harden runs the team.
Quote from: brandx on March 03, 2016, 01:53:54 PM
My guess? He would score more and not be seen as good of a player as he is now.
But, in reality, Beverly is the PG in name only. Harden runs the team.
I think that's kind of my point? Maybe? Klay would take a lot more shots at a much lower percentage. You're probably right about scoring average going up but I don't think it would be significant. His defense probably drops a little too, just like Jimmys has.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on March 03, 2016, 02:01:35 PM
I think that's kind of my point? Maybe? Klay would take a lot more shots at a much lower percentage. You're probably right about scoring average going up but I don't think it would be significant. His defense probably drops a little too, just like Jimmys has.
I agree.