1. Best sustained defensive effort of the season.
2. Henry, Traci, well done.
3. Good jj, bad jj.
4. Butler has heart and wide bodies. Marquette needs more of both.
5. HC and Sandy, way to work on defense despite lousy days offensively.
6. Carter needs to be in against the press.
7. Lottery pick seems possible.
8. Well done, warriors.
9. WHAT ARE WE RANKED ON MONDAY?
Best game of Henry's career. Nice job by the team, Wojo, etc.
Progress. Getting better
6th youngest team out of 350+ teams.
Relax
Probably the best game we played all year. All around great effort.....
....
....
That Depaul loss really hurt. We'd be 5-4 in conference right now if we had taken care of business.
NIT WATCH THE EFF OUT
Would be nice to be 5-4 right now.
Nature of the beast.
Really nice overall team effort. Hopefully we can get on a run.
Maybe that Stetson game was not badly scheduled as we now have 3 in a row. I'll be at the Seton Hall game on Wednesday. Hope it's as good as this one and Carter continues to hit the perimeter shot.
How many turnovers did we have? And was it a season (or BE) low?
10 threes (17 attempts), is that our best game from behind the arc this season?
The boys looks pretty good today.
Traci coming to life and giving all his Haters the middle finger.
Henry..what can you say? Kids a stud.
Tower calling Jones 3 a dagger was comical, yet predictable.
Pretty wild that was his 1st three of his Butler career.
Dunham, Jones and Martin are very very very good players.
Tough game for Hanii, but I love that kid.
Great win. Let's get 1/2 on the road next week, and come back to Milwaukee 5-6 with back to back home games. This season is not lost.
Bye, bye Henry. Enjoy his last games, he is gone. Just Awesome.
Fischer had no points, but yeah......one foul, and five blocks.
JJJ, Cohen and Cheatham had some, well, weird turnovers. Like vaseline on the ball or something. 15 for game, 10 in second half.
Carter pulled an Allen Iverson game, but why did he sit last four minutes. Surprised, but worked out.
After Henry leaves, please get a Kellen Martin. 6ft 7, 235 and what a player.
I thought we were in for another heartbreak loss...great to see the boys pull out the W. We're > .500 in conference without 1 boneheaded play against DePaul.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 30, 2016, 01:16:27 PM
How many turnovers did we have? And was it a season (or BE) low?
We had 15. Tied for fourth best in conference play. Also fourth worst.
Quote from: Black_Sands on January 30, 2016, 01:20:43 PM
I thought we were in for another heartbreak loss...great to see the boys pull out the W. We're > .500 in conference without 1 boneheaded play against DePaul.
Yep. Pretty wild to think that MU wins that DePaul game and gets one more basket against Belmont, they are 17-5 and almost certainly in the top 20. Such a fine line, but this team is incredibly talented. For all the bitching and moaning around here, 15 seconds go differently in this season and MUs a projected top 6 seed in the NCAAs.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 01:24:25 PM
Yep. Pretty wild to think that MU wins that DePaul game and gets one more basket against Belmont, they are 17-5 and almost certainly in the top 20. Such a fine line, but this team is incredibly talented. For all the bitching and moaning around here, 15 seconds go differently in this season and MUs a projected top 6 seed in the NCAAs.
Not sure your logic. We also won about 5 games that could have gone the other way
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 01:22:35 PM
We had 15. Tied for fourth best in conference play. Also fourth worst.
Chalk that up to good D as a lot of those TOs did not hurt them which is why it seemed like so much less.
Quote from: tower912 on January 30, 2016, 01:09:49 PM
6. Carter needs to be in against the press.
THIS!!!!!
Once again, Haney gets trapped in the corner right away. Carter has to be on the floor when MU is being pressed.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 01:24:25 PM
Yep. Pretty wild to think that MU wins that DePaul game and gets one more basket against Belmont, they are 17-5 and almost certainly in the top 20. Such a fine line, but this team is incredibly talented. For all the bitching and moaning around here, 15 seconds go differently in this season and MUs a projected top 6 seed in the NCAAs.
No way we would be in the top 20 if that happened or a top 6 seed, but yes the record would be better, the RPI better, etc.
Quote from: Heisenberg on January 30, 2016, 01:26:42 PM
Chalk that up to good D as a lot of those TOs did not hurt them which is why it seemed like so much less.
I also chalk it up to scoopers being pessimistic and assuming we always have ton of turnovers. I mean, we do have a ton of them, 15 is not good for a conference median. But we don't recognize the games where we don't.
Biggest thing about this game and really the SHU game this week.
Is trying to get us in line for a top 6 BE seed.
We have literally 0 chance in that tourney with a 7-10 spot
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 30, 2016, 01:33:31 PM
We have literally 0 chance in that tourney with a 7-10 spot
Literally I believe the chances would be somewhere around 5% since we can still get an auto bid.
Been to all home games this year except Iowa. Totally different team and totally different atmosphere in the BC today. Been a long time since a game was that fun.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 01:24:25 PM
Yep. Pretty wild to think that MU wins that DePaul game and gets one more basket against Belmont, they are 17-5 and almost certainly in the top 20. Such a fine line, but this team is incredibly talented. For all the bitching and moaning around here, 15 seconds go differently in this season and MUs a projected top 6 seed in the NCAAs.
That game at Providence could have gone against us too. One point win/loss to DePaul/Providence a wash.
Quote from: kryza on January 30, 2016, 01:37:25 PM
Literally I believe the chances would be somewhere around 5% since we can still get an auto bid.
Worst RPI ever to get at large big was in the 60's. MU is 125
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 01:32:03 PM
I also chalk it up to scoopers being pessimistic and assuming we always have ton of turnovers. I mean, we do have a ton of them, 15 is not good for a conference median. But we don't recognize the games where we don't.
Probably because in the two lowest turnover games, MU got spanked and other issues might have lead to defeats. 10 against Xavier and 14 against Nova are the lows in conference.
Today, there were at least four turnovers where the ball just came out of the hands of an MU player.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
Worst RPI ever to get at large big was in the 60's. MU is 125
Hayward said we literally have a 0% chance in the Beast tourney if we are 7-10. Kryza said it is 'literally' like 5% since we are still in the tourney and could win multiple games agaisnt top 25 teams.
He wasn't implying we get an at-large bid. He was implying we have a 5% chance at winning the Beast tourney.
Quote from: kryza on January 30, 2016, 01:37:25 PM
Literally I believe the chances would be somewhere around 5% since we can still get an auto bid.
I literally believe you should re read what I said.
We have NO chance of winning 4 straight if we're the 7-10.
And it means we MUST play at least one of X or Nova
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 01:26:05 PM
Not sure your logic. We also won about 5 games that could have gone the other way
Sure. But had those exact 15 seconds gone the other way, the record would be 17-5. It is what it is.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2016, 01:30:16 PM
No way we would be in the top 20 if that happened or a top 6 seed, but yes the record would be better, the RPI better, etc.
A 17-5 big east team in certainly in the top 25.
A little off topic but Bardo has turned into my favorite color guy. Does a nice mix of explaining the game and keeping it entertaining.
I'm over Belmont. It was a back and forth game and we were even down double digits. First game of the year.
DePaul was the inexcusable one. And 5-4 would be huge.
But we lost.
Need to steal SHU.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 01:39:08 PM
Worst RPI ever to get at large big was in the 60's. MU is 125
Almost
#74 New Mexico (1999)
#67 USC (2011)
#64 Marquette (2011)
#63 NC State (2005)
#63 Stanford (2007)
Congrats on the win guys. Better team won. Sucks that this is the 2nd Big East game where a team that is normally a poor perimeter shooting team goes bonkers from 3 against Butler, but hey, Marquette made their open looks and you have to give them credit for that.
Butler has some nice pieces on the wing, but are severely lacking in talent everywhere else. We'll see where the rest of the season goes. Good luck the rest of the way.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 01:46:53 PM
A 17-5 big east team in certainly in the top 25.
If we had won those two games and win the rest of the games we are supposed to, our RPI would be around 98.
Wouldn't a 17-5 Pac 12 team also fit that bill? USC is, but they aren't ranked
Indiana is 17-4, barely ranked...not in the top 20
Etc
With our schedule, beating DePaul and Belmont would not suddenly be the difference.
What a fun game. Good D - timely shooting - breakout games by HE & Traci. Wish Traci was on the floor at the end for the press but what an effort by the team. HE grew up a little more today -- love the aggression he showed a few times - taking it to the BU defender.
Let's go get one on the road!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2016, 01:55:24 PM
If we had won those two games and win the rest of the games we are supposed to, our RPI would be around 98.
Wouldn't a 17-5 Pac 12 team also fit that bill? USC is, but they aren't ranked
Indiana is 17-4, barely ranked...not in the top 20
Etc
With our schedule, beating DePaul and Belmont would not suddenly be the difference.
Uhh. Except Indiana is ranked 17/19 and USC is in the top 30 in both rankings and was ranked in top 25 in both polls last week. Terrible examples.
Those two loses are all the difference. RPI/SOS would still be low due to horrible buy games, but 3/5 losss to top 10 teams.
It doesn't work that way, to just dismiss the two worse losses of the season, but those two games are all the difference and MU could have easily have won both.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2016, 01:30:16 PM
No way we would be in the top 20 if that happened or a top 6 seed, but yes the record would be better, the RPI better, etc.
Agreed. some folks getting a little carried away.
Glad Henry was on his free throw game. 14-16 was big time in a game like this! Duane missed that front end when we were looking to put it away, but Sandy, although not having a good offensive day, hit two big throws afterwards.
I loved the ball movement, spacing of the floor, but also aggressive penetration against the zone! I've been waiting for us to show that kind of offensive execution for a while!
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 30, 2016, 02:06:02 PM
Agreed. some folks getting a little carried away.
Top 20 may have been a bit much, but the point is that things would look very very different and MU would be safely in the field of the tourney started tomorrow. It's all moot anyway - unfortunately MU lost those games.
Quote from: nyg on January 30, 2016, 01:41:06 PM
Probably because in the two lowest turnover games, MU got spanked and other issues might have lead to defeats. 10 against Xavier and 14 against Nova are the lows in conference.
Today, there were at least four turnovers where the ball just came out of the hands of an MU player.
Also 10 against Georgetown. True, they were all losses but I don't think I'd qualify any of those as a spanking. Losing by 8 to a top 5 team, losing by 10 on the road to a good GTWN team that was closer than the score indicated, and losing to a top 5 team on the road when we were winning at halftime. I think MU played well in all three, we just didn't notice because of the L.
Anywhere I can find a full replay of the game?
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 01:46:53 PM
A 17-5 big east team in certainly in the top 25.
This has absolutely zero basis in reality. Just because of a good record and a good league, it doesn't change that 11 of those wins would be pretty much worthless. The voters aren't so dumb to vote for us just because we beat Little Sisters of the Poor 10 times.
You keep acting like mere placement in this league is a divine right to a ranking or a NCAA berth. The reality is we played a sad schedule so we have to overperform to get the kind of recognition other teams in our league can get. 17-5 would do it had we played anyone of note in the non-con. We didn't. We need to win more games to get ranked and need to get 22+ wins to have a shot at the tournament. That's just reality.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400840209
Box score.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 01:26:05 PM
Not sure your logic. We also won about 5 games that could have gone the other way
Yep! I think it's better to look out the front windshield.
Other thoughts...
.
- That was the toughest I have ever seen Henry play. His best defensive game (not just blocks, but actually making smart defensive plays), active on the offensive glass, and in attack mode.
- Continuing on Henry, I also love that 12 of his 14 attempts were inside the arc, and it would have been a higher percentage if you included the times he was fouled as attempts. He's at his best from 15 feet and in, and that's where he attacked tonight.
- Damn, impressive shooting from Treyci Carter. Or would Tra-3 be more accurate? Either way, good shootin', Tex.
- Butler went zone late in the game. We responded with Traci drilling a three right over it. That's how you beat a zone.
- Turnovers were still an issue. I love Haney, but man he makes some dumb turnovers. And he totally got away with what should have been two more turnovers when he almost lost it in the backcourt in the first half for no reason and when he was trapped in the corner and just threw it up in the air and we came up with it late in the game when Butler started pressing. His defense helped us win, but his turnovers almost cost us the game.
- Yeah, Luke and Hank combined for 16 boards, but our wings and guards pulled down 14. Haney, Duane, Traci, and Sandy all had at least 3 rebounds. That's what we need. Team rebounding. We are 3-0 in league play when we win the battle of the boards, and 1-5 when we lose. Providence was the only outlier.
- Still allowed too many offensive boards.
- When we play tough and play as a team, we can hang with anyone. This isn't a lost season yet. That said, when we play soft, we can lose to anyone. Need more of this and less of the past month.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2016, 01:49:31 PM
Almost
#74 New Mexico (1999)
#67 USC (2011)
#64 Marquette (2011)
#63 NC State (2005)
#63 Stanford (2007)
I should have clarified in the last decade.
MU has 0% chance of making NCAA tournament. Period.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 04:24:47 PM
MU has 0% chance of making NCAA tournament. Period.
That is statistically incorrect
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 04:31:48 PM
That is statistically incorrect
as an at large bid it won't happen. Go complain to Broeker
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 04:24:47 PM
I should have clarified in the last decade.
MU has 0% chance of making NCAA tournament. Period.
If they win 5 out of the next 6 (which is entirely possible) team bubble watch would be back in effect.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 04:24:47 PM
I should have clarified in the last decade.
MU has 0% chance of making NCAA tournament. Period.
I'm sure this was said at times in 2010 and 2011 too.
In fact, after the UWGB loss in 2013 there were some posts here that we weren't a tournament team. We went to the elite 8.
It's a long shot. We all get that. But if the guys play like they did today they can beat a lot of teams. Let's see what happens Wednesday.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 04:33:02 PM
as an at large bid it won't happen. Go complain to Broeker
Well...there's a conundrum there.
Right now we are predicted to go 7-11 in conference play per Pomeroy. Assuming he's right, it almost wouldn't matter who we scheduled in non-conference, we're not getting in. If we exceed that by 1 game and go 8-10, it would take a really, really tough non-con to get in with a losing conference record. If we exceed that by 2 or 3 games, well, then there's a case. 9-9 or 10-8 should at least give us a chance. This year, not so much. But if we go 11-7 or better, we're getting in even with our crappy schedule. So...
8-10 or worse, it wasn't the schedule, it's that we weren't good enough in league play.
9-9 or 10-8, it was the schedule.
11-7 or better, even that schedule probably won't keep us out.
The only way the athletic department gets the blame is if we finish 9-9 or 10-8.
We're probably out, but I still think 11-7 is possible. All the home games are winnable. But need to win 3 of 5 on the road. That DePaul loss is immense. If we needed only 2 of 5 on the road, it might feel a bit more doable.
This was one of Marquette's best performances playing hard as a team for 40 minutes on both ends.
Impressive defense all around. Carter & Co. totally took Jones out of the game in the second half. Sandy, Duane and JJ added some tough perimeter defense, frustrating Butler and forcing them into bad shots at every turn.Even with Luke held scoreless, he contributed 4 or 5 blocks and some big rebounds.
We out-played and out-toughed a very tough and well-coached team. What a great game to watch. Let's hope it's a sign of things to come.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 30, 2016, 04:33:02 PM
as an at large bid it won't happen. Go complain to Broeker
But 0% is not correct. If we win every game but the BEast championship we would not only be in but have a pretty good seed.
I don't think it's likely our what will happen, but it can happen.
Two more thoughts...
.
- Rosey Jones had 15 in the first half and zero in the second. Kelan Martin had 12 points in 10 minutes of the second half, then went scoreless for 8:21.
- Both of those happened because of good defense and Marquette making adjustments. Yes, Martin hit a shot late, and also got that prayer 3, but we did a great job on him late on. That is likely on the coaching staff.
Hope Traci continues this kind of play. He did not look like a frosh today.
GREAT GAME! JJ has had 2 or 3 very good games in a row. I was wrong
about these two. I Hope for consistency.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 04:46:03 PM
But 0% is not correct. If we win every game but the BEast championship we would not only be in but have a pretty good seed.
I don't think it's likely our what will happen, but it can happen.
You are correct. I should have said 1%
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 30, 2016, 04:48:34 PM
Two more thoughts...
.
- Rosey Jones had 15 in the first half and zero in the second. Kelan Martin had 12 points in 10 minutes of the second half, then went scoreless for 8:21.
- Both of those happened because of good defense and Marquette making adjustments. Yes, Martin hit a shot late, and also got that prayer 3, but we did a great job on him late on. That is likely on the coaching staff.
This was very evident to me.
All of Jones' buckets came on drives to the right. After the half, Carter played him very differently, making it difficult for Jones to go where he wanted. Traci also got more help; at times Jones had trouble just getting the ball. As a result, Butler's second-half offense looked much more out of sync.
Of course, I wasn't in the locker room. But I'd definitely give Marquette's coaching staff credit for making a smart adjustment.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 04:46:03 PM
But 0% is not correct. If we win every game but the BEast championship we would not only be in but have a pretty good seed.
I don't think it's likely our what will happen, but it can happen.
Maybe he was rounding down from 0.4%
> Best home game of the season
> Maybe the best 35 minutes offensively that MU has put together. Consistency
> The turnovers are maddening but they are frosh
> I thought this was MU's best match up game.
> Stan Johnson was wild on the sidelines
> Henry, after a slow start, took over.
> Butler seemed overly lucky or else this was a blow out.
> Traci, good Lords
> Great environment today.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 30, 2016, 04:04:03 PM
This has absolutely zero basis in reality. Just because of a good record and a good league, it doesn't change that 11 of those wins would be pretty much worthless. The voters aren't so dumb to vote for us just because we beat Little Sisters of the Poor 10 times.
You keep acting like mere placement in this league is a divine right to a ranking or a NCAA berth. The reality is we played a sad schedule so we have to overperform to get the kind of recognition other teams in our league can get. 17-5 would do it had we played anyone of note in the non-con. We didn't. We need to win more games to get ranked and need to get 22+ wins to have a shot at the tournament. That's just reality.
To be fair, I back tracked a bit on my previous statement (regarding being in the top 20 at 17-5). I was a bit excited, but I do think that a 17-5 (5-4) Big East team is safely in the field if the tourney started tomorrow, and is definitely in the top 25 conversation. Obviously the tourney doesn't start tomorrow and MU lost to both Belmont and DePaul. The comment was a hypothetical - HAD Marquette made 1 more basket in those two games. It didn't happen, so of course that isn't "reality".
I hated our non-con/buy game schedule as much as you did, but a few of those teams are not nearly as bad at they appeared to be before the season. Still a horrible schedule that made MUs margin for error tiny. But to say that 11 of those wins are worthless is silly, but if you want to look at it that way - fine - but discount every other teams 250+ RPI wins too. Plenty of teams in the top 25 or currently in the field also played plenty of cupcakes. MU's final non-conference performance at 11-2 was solid and certainly isn't going to be looked down on.
I don't think MUs place in BE gives them a "divine right" (your words not mine) to anything, but I don't think it hurts. It is one of the better conferences in the country. I don't have the time or care enough to look it up right now, but pretty sure every team who have finished 9-9 or higher in the new big east have danced. I don't think 9-9 does it this year for MU, but I do think 10-8 plus a win in the BET does. 11-7 and they're a cold stone lock. You disagree, and that's fine (edit: although in a subsequent post in this thread you've changed your tune. Now 11-7 gets MU in. You've been pretty consistent in saying 11-7 DOES NOT get MU in prior to today, without at least a win in the BET.). I'd happily wager that if MU were to finish 11-7 (again, as I've said repeatedly, they won't) that they'll get in, even without a win in the BET. Hate to break it to ya Brew, but your opinion is just that, just another dude's opinion that doesn't mean anything, and it certainly doesn't equate to reality.
Bottom line, hopefully MU puts up 10 or 11 wins and puts our debate to test. I know we can both agree that would be a wonderful thing. I doubt it'll happen, but I sure as hell hope it does. Being an MU fan since 2008, I got used to being good and dancing every year, so these past two years have been brutal. Maybe that makes me an optimist when it comes to getting back in the NCAAS, but there are so many mediocre teams this year, that a team that finishes 8-3 after a 2-5 start in one of the better conferences in the country, is going to be on the committees radar on selection Sunday weekend. I trust that the committee will care more about that, than they will about MU beating up on a few too many 300 RPI teams versus 200-250 RPI teams in November. They're going to care more about and be impressed with the young team that began to gel in late January and went on an incredibly impressive run to finish in the top half of one of the best conferences in the country.
I think it was a good coaching move getting Carter out of the game with about 4:00 to go. Despite the fact that he was hitting his shots, he had a couple possessions in a row where he was going a little too fast. The first time, Wojo told him to slow it down. The second time, which resulted in a turnover, Wojo pulled him.
When the other team isn't pressing, I think Wojo likes Haanif out there because he plays at a more deliberate pace. And I think Carter is going to be fine.
> Traci, good Lords
Hey Pat, figurin' we've seen da same flicks at da Parkway, hey?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 30, 2016, 05:13:04 PM
I think it was a good coaching move getting Carter out of the game with about 4:00 to go. Despite the fact that he was hitting his shots, he had a couple possessions in a row where he was going a little too fast. The first time, Wojo told him to slow it down. The second time, which resulted in a turnover, Wojo pulled him.
When the other team isn't pressing, I think Wojo likes Haanif out there because he plays at a more deliberate pace. And I think Carter is going to be fine.
Agreed. And what Carter was doing really well was making 3s. We were up 5 we didn't really need that at the time.
JJJ came in and he's been our best run the offense guy. And Duane is always going to be in late.
Cheatam provided size and good D.
I liked the move.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2016, 01:10:41 PM
Best game of Henry's career. Nice job by the team, Wojo, etc.
Progress. Getting better
6th youngest team out of 350+ teams.
Relax
HE was awesome today. But he needs to come back next year because:
~~We want him to
~~The cash will be there, even more, if he matures one more year
~~Wally wants him to
~~Wojo already knows that HE is his meal ticket and would like him to come back
~~Wojo will refine his big man skills
~~He needs to work on his 3
~~We need him to kick Whisky's ass.
~~Another year and a Tourney run will enhance his NBA resume
~~We want to hear Dickie V rave about him--have not and will not hear it this year unless he gets on ESPN
~~It will give his Rice Lake posse another year to follow him
~~One more year could very well make him the #1 Pick. That is the BIG Ticket.
All of the above is likely wishful dreaming.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 30, 2016, 05:30:22 PM
HE was awesome today. But he needs to come back next year because:
~~We want him to
~~The cash will be there, even more, if he matures one more year
~~Wally wants him to
~~Wojo already knows that HE is his meal ticket and would like him to come back
~~Wojo will refine his big man skills
~~He needs to work on his 3
~~We need him to kick Whisky's ass.
~~Another year and a Tourney run will enhance his NBA resume
~~We want to hear Dickie V rave about him--have not and will not hear it this year unless he gets on ESPN
~~It will give his Rice Lake posse another year to follow him
~~One more year could very well make him the #1 Pick. That is the BIG Ticket.
All of the above is likely wishful dreaming.
Love it! Preach it, brother!
Could be a real turning of the corner - so nice to see a good all around effort. Let's keep it going at SH.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 30, 2016, 05:30:22 PM
HE was awesome today. But he needs to come back next year because:
~~We want him to
~~The cash will be there, even more, if he matures one more year
~~Wally wants him to
~~Wojo already knows that HE is his meal ticket and would like him to come back
~~Wojo will refine his big man skills
~~He needs to work on his 3
~~We need him to kick Whisky's ass.
~~Another year and a Tourney run will enhance his NBA resume
~~We want to hear Dickie V rave about him--have not and will not hear it this year unless he gets on ESPN
~~It will give his Rice Lake posse another year to follow him
~~One more year could very well make him the #1 Pick. That is the BIG Ticket.
All of the above is likely wishful dreaming.
Agreed on all counts except the bolded. Dickie can retire tomorrow.
Got back a little while ago and think this was the best overall effort of the season. Our guys looked good. The inside-out game was clicking and it was nice to see us shooting threes with reasonable accuracy.
Big point raised in here was Big Fishy's contribution. Fishy's defense and his passing made the day. Yes, he didn't score, but who cares when Henry got 30. I thought Big Fishy did the best Dennis Rodman imitation I've seen in awhile.
It's a day at a time. We play like this for the next two games and, guess what, we're really into something. It will prove the experts were right in that we will be a dynamo as the season comes to an end.
By the way, I thought this was Wojo's best coaching job of the past two years. Every phase of the game looked good against a tough opponent.
For JJJJ, my contention is and always has been that 23 total wins makes us a lock and 22 gets us on the bubble. The problem with 11-7 is if we lose our first BET game our RPI dips further down.
The soft bubble (seems soft every year) would likely help us, but 10-8 (and 21 wins) would put us in a situation where getting in would be unprecedented in the past 15 years.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 30, 2016, 06:04:44 PM
For JJJJ, my contention is and always has been that 23 total wins makes us a lock and 22 gets us on the bubble. The problem with 11-7 is if we lose our first BET game our RPI dips further down.
The soft bubble (seems soft every year) would likely help us, but 10-8 (and 21 wins) would put us in a situation where getting in would be unprecedented in the past 15 years.
I'm with you. 10-8 and we probably need 2 BET wins. But 10-8 at least gives the chance of an at large heading to NYC.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on January 30, 2016, 06:14:46 PM
I'm with you. 10-8 and we probably need 2 BET wins. But 10-8 at least gives the chance of an at large heading to NYC.
I agree with this. But I'd still say we've got a shot at 10-8 with 1 win in BET, but likely will be one of the first few left our.
But obviously still a long way to go just to get there.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 06:17:22 PM
I agree with this. But I'd still say we've got a shot at 10-8 with 1 win in BET, but likely will be one of the first few left our.
But obviously still a long way to go just to get there.
10-8 with 1-1 in NYC gives us the numbers below. Most likely out in that scenario. MAYBE would have a chance if we add on a win against Nova/Xavier
Marquette
W-L RPI* SOS
22-11 63 68
Quote from: willie warrior on January 30, 2016, 05:30:22 PM
HE was awesome today. But he needs to come back next year because:
~~We want him to
~~The cash will be there, even more, if he matures one more year
~~Wally wants him to
~~Wojo already knows that HE is his meal ticket and would like him to come back
~~Wojo will refine his big man skills
~~He needs to work on his 3
~~We need him to kick Whisky's ass.
~~Another year and a Tourney run will enhance his NBA resume
~~We want to hear Dickie V rave about him--have not and will not hear it this year unless he gets on ESPN
~~It will give his Rice Lake posse another year to follow him
~~One more year could very well make him the #1 Pick. That is the BIG Ticket.
All of the above is likely wishful dreaming.
You forgot one:
~~ He needs to stay to work on his NBA flopping. That one at the end, oy ve.
One other thing.
I don't recall Wojo calling a timeout to stop any Butler runs. He let them play through when Butler had momentum, and the players responded.
Fun game, great win, but this was simply a victory thanks to shooting the ball well. Miss shots, they lose.
Turnovers... MU turned it over on 23.0% of their possessions - poor. Butler only 12.2%. Net TO's: Butler +7
Rebounding.. MU allowed an OR% of 35.0%; got a decent (for us) 30.4%. Net OR's: Butler +7
However... MU shot 63.0% eFG% to Butler's 45.5%. Dunham and Chrabascz shot a combined 1/7 from 3; Butler shot 59.0% on 2-point shots that weren't blocked.. however, with blocks they were at 45.1%. Fischer had zero points, but he was very important again today.
MU's previous BEast best this year was vs. DePaul when they shot 54.8% eFG%. Only games MU shot better this season were against Grambling St. and Maine.
Crazy-good shooting saved MU.
Quote from: 1SE on January 30, 2016, 05:37:29 PM
Could be a real turning of the corner - so nice to see a good all around effort. Let's keep it going at SH.
I've been eying up that SHU game ever since the second half debacle in December. Hoping they knock off Creighton tonight because with Georgetown and Butler pending they could look past us.
Still not convinced they're as good as they looked for 20 minutes against us.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 06:17:22 PM
I agree with this. But I'd still say we've got a shot at 10-8 with 1 win in BET, but likely will be one of the first few left our.
But obviously still a long way to go just to get there.
We beat a team at home that is 3-6 in conference. The only bubble we are going to be on this year is the NIT bubble. 10-8 is a pipe dream that I would love to be smoking.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2016, 06:59:52 PM
MU's previous BEast best this year was vs. DePaul when they shot 54.8% eFG%. Only games MU shot better this season were against Grambling St. and Maine.
Crazy-good shooting saved MU.
This. this, this. Shoot half decently, you're in every game.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on January 30, 2016, 06:39:24 PM
10-8 with 1-1 in NYC gives us the numbers below. Most likely out in that scenario. MAYBE would have a chance if we add on a win against Nova/Xavier
Marquette
W-L RPI* SOS
22-11 63 68
Those numbers will change over the next 45 days. But yes, likely out. But there's a chance.
Quote from: mufanatic on January 30, 2016, 07:08:05 PM
We beat a team at home that is 3-6 in conference. The only bubble we are going to be on this year is the NIT bubble. 10-8 is a pipe dream that I would love to be smoking.
I've said its unlikely.
It's a Marquette bball message board for f***s sake. We're just spitballing possibilities not saying what we believe will happen. I think 10-8 is possible, but obviously a long shot.
Plus, Butler was ranked #8 in he country prior to BE play. Not exactly a bad team.
I did not realize that Duane held the reocrd for free throws made by a freshmen. He made 89 free throw last year. Today Ellenson in 22 games took over first with 90 makes.
Freshmen only statistics Ellenson rankings are:
Points 6th
Scoring average 1st
Field goals made 7th
Field goals attempted 8th
Field goal percentage not in top 10
3 point stats he is not in top 10 in makes, shots or pct.
Free throws made 1st
Free throw attempted 3rd
Free throw percentage tied for 7th
Rebounds 2nd
Rebounding average 1st
assists not in top 10
Block shots 2nd
Steals not in top 10
Quote from: bilsu on January 30, 2016, 07:37:44 PM
I did not realize that Duane held the reocrd for free throws made by a freshmen. He made 89 free throw last year. Today Ellenson in 22 games took over first with 90 makes.
Freshmen only statistics Ellenson rankings are:
Points 6th
Scoring average 1st
Field goals made 7th
Field goals attempted 8th
Field goal percentage not in top 10
3 point stats he is not in top 10 in makes, shots or pct.
Free throws made 1st
Free throw attempted 3rd
Free throw percentage tied for 7th
Rebounds 2nd
Rebounding average 1st
assists not in top 10
Block shots 2nd
Steals not in top 10
Using such rankings, would minutes not be incredibly important to consider?
Well, the game made Deadspin, but not for the reason we would have wanted
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/butler-forward-roosevelt-jones-drills-three-quarter-cou-1756132541#_ga=1.13553975.1838309319.1451669710
I must say, I had Rotnei Clark flashbacks when I saw it live...
Obviously the more you play the more opportunities you have. However, this is what Ellenson has done in 22 games. The freshmen rankings are the easiest by far to crack, since a lot of our great players never played as freshmen. Freshmen were not eligible, transfers in or players like Wade who had to sit out their freshmen year. However, if Wade had stayed and got his degree he would of gotten a fourth year with the result being his sophomore stats would of turned into freshmen stats. Junior stats are the highest. Senior stats see a drop off, because a lot of our greatest players skip their senior year.
At the end of the day, a good win. Whether it is a stepping stone/building block/turning point or just a brief warm sunny day in a winter of discontent is a problem for another day.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 30, 2016, 05:14:38 PM
> Traci, good Lords
Hey Pat, figurin' we've seen da same flicks at da Parkway, hey?
Minor problems for the San Fernando Valley...
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2016, 06:59:52 PM
Fun game, great win, but this was simply a victory thanks to shooting the ball well. Miss shots, they lose.
That's true of a lot of games. An important difference, I thought, was MU's shot selection. Not that every attempt was a good one. But the majority were. They drove, probed and passed until they got a good look.
On the other end, Marquette's defensive intensity, switching and overall smart play forced Butler into a lot of poor shots. Not in all cases, of course. Kellen had an off day, missing at least a couple wide-open threes. But we made Butler work hard for its offense.
Hopefully this game indicates that Marquette is learning what team offense and defense mean, and why shot selection is so important. Take good shots, you make more shots.
The next big lesson is cutting down on turnovers. Leading the Big East is this category is not a good thing, no matter how you try to spin it. This has got to improve if Marquette is going to win more than 4 games the rest of the conference schedule.
1. It's amazing how well a talented team can do if it hits a few 3s and plays with great passion.
2. It's human nature to pine for the wins we let get away. But realistically, everybody here knows we also could have lost to LSU, Arizona State, Wisconsin, Providence and St. John's. Heck, we came amazingly close to losing to IUPUI. We are our record.
3. I wonder if we win this game if we had blown out Stetson in the second half and won by 40. I'm guessing the second half of that game gave Wojo and his staff a nice platform to preach about the things the Warriors needed to do much, much better. The lads certainly were psyched from the get-go today.
4. That game was flat-out entertaining. Yeah, I was on the edge of my seat because I so wanted the Warriors to win, but when I could take off my blue-and-gold goggles for a second, I just really enjoyed how competitive and hard-fought that game was.
5. By far the best game of the season for Henry -- and most of those points didn't come easily. It still doesn't mean he is "ready" for the NBA, but it shows exactly why GMs would love to draft him and get their coaching staffs to start developing him. Hell, Henry even has the fake-being-fouled move down pat -- better than a lot of pros!
6. Traci Carter ... I totally saw that coming. Ha!
7. Given that Butler scored on a desperation heave at the halftime buzzer and got a gift basket tipped in by our guys -- 5 free points -- it showed very nice resilience on the part of our lads.
8. Martin is what Deonte Burton should have been.
9. Go Panthers! Keep Pounding!!!
Random comment so Ill just post it here
Is JJJ really already almost 22? I never knew he was old for his year if ESPN is correct.
Cuz thats like Mayo level old
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 30, 2016, 11:48:49 PM
Cuz thats like Mayo level old
Mayo was going to be a 24 year old college graduate. JJJ's 23 is close but not quite his level.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 11:56:47 PM
Mayo was going to be a 24 year old college graduate.
Mayo was never going to be a college graduate!
Quote from: keefe on January 31, 2016, 12:02:01 AM
Mayo was never going to be a college graduate!
;D true
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 30, 2016, 11:56:47 PM
Mayo was going to be a 24 year old college graduate. JJJ's 23 is close but not quite his level.
Damn!! My bad. Totally forgot that fool actually left early lol.
Also noticed that Duane, Sandy and Luke are all on the older end of their years as well(September and October).
Hopefully next year age and experience really start to kick in for us.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 30, 2016, 07:59:30 PMI must say, I had Rotnei Clark flashbacks when I saw it live...
First three Roosevelt Jones has ever made in his career. Ridiculous.
Quote from: JamilJaeJamailJrJuan on January 30, 2016, 07:28:49 PM
I've said its unlikely.
It's a Marquette bball message board for f***s sake. We're just spitballing possibilities not saying what we believe will happen. I think 10-8 is possible, but obviously a long shot.
Plus, Butler was ranked #8 in he country prior to BE play. Not exactly a bad team.
Let's stay focused on the NIT - if a miracle happens and we're 3-1 over the next four then let's start dreaming about bubble. But we could just as easily go 0-4 and be on the outside (of NIT) looking in again.
Quote from: 1SE on January 31, 2016, 02:59:42 AM
Let's stay focused on the NIT - if a miracle happens and we're 3-1 over the next four then let's start dreaming about bubble. But we could just as easily go 0-4 and be on the outside (of NIT) looking in again.
Thanks for the tip, but I can stay focused on whatever I please. That's the beauty of being fan. Are the NCAAs a long shot? For sure. But that will always be my goal until the day were eliminated. Root for the NIT all youd like, bud.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 30, 2016, 08:59:55 PM
The next big lesson is cutting down on turnovers. Leading the Big East is this category is not a good thing, no matter how you try to spin it. This has got to improve if Marquette is going to win more than 4 games the rest of the conference schedule.
They had a few turnovers yesturday after passing up shots. It is good to pass the ball around, but if you have an open shot you should take it.
Quote from: 1SE on January 31, 2016, 02:59:42 AM
Let's stay focused on the NIT - if a miracle happens and we're 3-1 over the next four then let's start dreaming about bubble. But we could just as easily go 0-4 and be on the outside (of NIT) looking in again.
The game yesterday did more to end Butler's hope for an NCAA bid than it did to help us get a bid. The next game is really a key game. A win on the road at Seton Hall pulls us even with them in the standings. A loss barring something else pretty amazing will end any chance of an NCAA bid. Looking at the standings we need to beat Seton Hall, DePaul, Creighton twice, Georgetown and either Villanova or Xavier. That would leave only one team sweeping us. That is a tall order, but I do not think it is impossible. However, you do have to consider our 4-5 start includes 2 wins over St. John's and a win over Butler who is beginning to remind me of Buzz's last season. That 17-15 team could never catch a break. Butler starting out with a tough schedule and then losing their point guard to a concussion seems to be tracking along the misfortune of the 17-15 team. Planning on the NIT is much more realistic.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 30, 2016, 07:59:30 PM
Well, the game made Deadspin, but not for the reason we would have wanted
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/butler-forward-roosevelt-jones-drills-three-quarter-cou-1756132541#_ga=1.13553975.1838309319.1451669710
I must say, I had Rotnei Clark flashbacks when I saw it live...
We let up on that shot. If I was Wojo, I would have gone off on the team at halftime over that one. In a close game like yesterday, every basket counts, even the improbable ones. We should have played him a whole lot tighter than we did.
Teal?
Quote from: tower912 on January 31, 2016, 08:01:17 AM
Teal?
No. With 2 seconds left, look how far off Roosevelt Sandy was playing. Yes, he was lucky. But don't give him an open shot, no matter where he is!
I don't think you "go off" on the team after playing its best half in awhile for not playing tight enough on a 3/4 court shot. The last thing you want is for them to be too aggressive in that situation and foul.
BTW, that was Jones first 3 pt FG make of his entire career.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 31, 2016, 08:39:46 AM
BTW, that was Jones first 3 pt FG make of his entire career.
Exactly. Jones had only attempted three shots from beyond the arc in his career. If Luke was teeing up from there, would you fault Butler if they didn't guard him tight? It was disappointing, but a lucky miracle heave that was the least of our issues yesterday.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 31, 2016, 08:19:17 AM
No. With 2 seconds left, look how far off Roosevelt Sandy was playing. Yes, he was lucky. But don't give him an open shot, no matter where he is!
If you were the coach, how much would you "go off" on the team if they committed a foul on a guy shooting a 75-footer?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 31, 2016, 08:23:21 AM
I don't think you "go off" on the team after playing its best half in awhile for not playing tight enough on a 3/4 court shot. The last thing you want is for them to be too aggressive in that situation and foul.
Well, I cannot help but think Wojo was responsible for that play. He called a timeout to set up a play that would use as much of the shot clock as possible. The play ended up with Duane having to force a well covered three. Unfortunately the refs thought it was a shot clock violation and stopped the clock, which help set up the final shot. What I did not like was not getting a good shot at the end of the shot clock. A good shot is more important than using as much time as possible with no chance of scoring.
Coaches always seem to want to use the "use it or lose it" timeout at the end of the first half. And it never seems to result in anything positive.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 31, 2016, 11:20:27 AM
Coaches always seem to want to use the "use it or lose it" timeout at the end of the first half. And it never seems to result in anything positive.
Cheatham started that play with six seconds go in the shot clock, but it was too complicated at that point they way it was drawn up. It would have just been better for him to go 1:1 with the hope of gettng to the line as MU was in the bonus (if you are going to start the play that late). MU needed to start the designed play with about 11 clicks left on the shot clock. I think it was a good time out obviously, just that the execution of the play kicked off too late for a slow developing play.
As to the Jones toss, it would be better to position a defender just in front of him, not behind with that little time left. Most last second chucks use the sideline curl to allow for forward momemtun toward the hoop on the toss. If you position a player just in front, the inbounder has to throw it over and the shooter has to catch it flatfooted (and you still don't have to worry about fouling the shooter). That said, it was lucky.
MU was probably afraid of being anywhere near Jones when he launched that prayer. Dude was MMA elbowing Duane and getting fouls called his way.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 30, 2016, 08:36:20 PM
That's true of a lot of games. An important difference, I thought, was MU's shot selection. Not that every attempt was a good one. But the majority were. They drove, probed and passed until they got a good look.
Hopefully this game indicates that Marquette is learning what team offense and defense mean, and why shot selection is so important. Take good shots, you make more shots.
Most probably wouldn't have called Henry and Traci from 3 a good shot coming into yesterday's game.. except for their 3-point shooting, the team only shot 50.0% eFG%.
MU went 10/17 from deep. That won them the game.
Can they 'build on it?' I'll leave that one alone...
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 31, 2016, 11:20:27 AM
Coaches always seem to want to use the "use it or lose it" timeout at the end of the first half. And it never seems to result in anything positive.
'Use it or lose it' was eliminated this year.
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2016, 10:30:53 AM
If you were the coach, how much would you "go off" on the team if they committed a foul on a guy shooting a 75-footer?
Exactly.
Chances of Rosey making that shot: probably 1 in 1000 (and I am being kind to him here)
Chances of getting a foul called on us while trying to defend that shot: probably 1 in 20.
Quote from: jsglow on January 31, 2016, 12:21:44 PM
'Use it or lose it' was eliminated this year.
Then I have no explanation for why he would use a timeout there.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 31, 2016, 07:47:40 AM
We let up on that shot. If I was Wojo, I would have gone off on the team at halftime over that one. In a close game like yesterday, every basket counts, even the improbable ones. We should have played him a whole lot tighter than we did.
The chances of Jones hitting that shot were waaaaaaaaay lower than were the chances of us being called for a foul if we tried to play them tight on defense there, leading to 2 free throws. If they want to inbound it to 80 feet from their basket with 2 seconds left you let them do it all they want.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 31, 2016, 11:20:27 AM
Coaches always seem to want to use the "use it or lose it" timeout at the end of the first half. And it never seems to result in anything positive.
More than anything I think he used it to get Duane back in on the offensive end for our last offensive possession. Prior to Butler's 2nd last possession of the half there was a stoppage. Wojo got Duane out (with 2 fouls) before that possession knowing that he would use his timeout to get Duane back into the game (as well as draw up a play while at it).
Just rewatched the lead up to halftime. First, bad that we didn't get a shot up. Duane forced a zero chance three when Cheatham was wide open not 10 feet away. Plenty of time to make the easy pass.
Second, Jones was not who Butler wanted. Etherington used 4 seconds and looked at every other option first. Every other option was well covered. It was the first and likely last three Jones will ever hit. Simply, $#!+ happens.
Quote from: jsglow on January 31, 2016, 12:21:44 PM
'Use it or lose it' was eliminated this year.
My understanding is that teams can only use three timeouts in the second half. So use it or lose it is still in effect. But it is surprising that coaches decide to use it when things are bumping along just fine.
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2016, 10:30:53 AM
If you were the coach, how much would you "go off" on the team if they committed a foul on a guy shooting a 75-footer?
OK, I was probably aggressive in "going off" on guys who had a great first half and whose second half adjustments were wonderful. But the lesson is not to take that situation for granted. Even getting a hand in his field of vision could have re-directed the shot ever so slightly away from what happened.
The lesson is don't take anything for granted, including the strong likelihood that ole Roosevelt was heaving the basketball into the third row!
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 31, 2016, 01:08:56 PM
My understanding is that teams can only use three timeouts in the second half. So use it or lose it is still in effect. But it is surprising that coaches decide to use it when things are bumping along just fine.
Correct.
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2015-06-08/ncaa-changes-shot-clock-30-seconds-makes-other-changes-game
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 31, 2016, 01:20:32 PM
OK, I was probably aggressive in "going off" on guys who had a great first half and whose second half adjustments were wonderful. But the lesson is not to take that situation for granted. Even getting a hand in his field of vision could have re-directed the shot ever so slightly away from what happened.
The lesson is don't take anything for granted, including the strong likelihood that ole Roosevelt was heaving the basketball into the third row!
Getting a hand in his field of vision had just as much likelihood to redirect it into the hoop as it did to redirect it out of the hoop. That shot is pure luck. No skill whatsoever. No defense for that. Leaving him alone was the best defensive decision. He misses that shot 999 times out of 1000
If the team that showed up last night showed up for all of our games this season, we'd have two losses, Iowa and @NOVA. We played close to our ceiling yesterday. Unreasonable to expect we'll play at that level from here on out. Hopefully that ceiling becomes the norm next season when our team grows up
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 31, 2016, 02:09:54 PM
If the team that showed up last night showed up for all of our games this season, we'd have two losses, Iowa and @NOVA. We played close to our ceiling yesterday. Unreasonable to expect we'll play at that level from here on out. Hopefully that ceiling becomes the norm next season when our team grows up
Idk. If we shoot like we did yesterday vs Nova we might have won that one.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 31, 2016, 02:16:19 PM
Idk. If we shoot like we did yesterday vs Nova we might have won that one.
Agreed. Play 40 minutes like we did yesterday and Nova never would have reached a 22 game league winning streak.
Quote from: MomofMUltiples on January 31, 2016, 01:08:56 PM
My understanding is that teams can only use three timeouts in the second half. So use it or lose it is still in effect. But it is surprising that coaches decide to use it when things are bumping along just fine.
I stand corrected. ;D
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 31, 2016, 02:16:19 PM
Idk. If we shoot like we did yesterday vs Nova we might have won that one.
I kind of agree, but thought people would balk at the idea of us being 21-1, lol
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 31, 2016, 03:09:42 PM
I kind of agree, but thought people would balk at the idea of us being 21-1, lol
Lol that's very true.
But I think you could make a case that we were closer to beating Nova than SHU or Gtown.
SHU took a epically bad half but it was at least a full awful 20 minutes. Gtown we also got down massive at 1 point.
Nova and X as good as they are overall were games we actually played well against outside of the awful 8 minute shooting stretches.
So that's kinda why I said Nova in this instance. We already played pretty solid, just couldn't shoot(and kept doing it).
Quote from: bilsu on January 31, 2016, 07:37:07 AMThe next game is really a key game. A win on the road at Seton Hall pulls us even with them in the standings. A loss barring something else pretty amazing will end any chance of an NCAA bid.
I hate to put everything on a single game, but I agree with this. A win against Seton Hall would be huge, getting us into the top 5-7 in the conference standings. There's more work ahead with even tougher opponents in the following three games. But one step at a time.
Can't wait to see how we play on Wednesday.