1. Geezus, that was an ugly game. Thank God SJU is so bad.
2. Henry inbounding the ball may have saved the game. Amazing what a fundamental as simple as running the baseline can be.
3. Not getting blown up on the defensive boards sure does make your defense look better.
4. Contributions from lots of scorers.
5. Luke was not strong today. Butchering passes, not going up strong in traffic.
6. I am sure the blizzard contributed, but that tiny gym wasn't half full. Puts MU complaints about attendance in perspective.
7. Game never had a flow. Couldn't figure out how MU ended up 20. Figured out easily how the lead was blown.
8. Conference road win. Weird circumstances. Take it, hope the airport is open, fly away.
That was the worst press break I have seen since Seton Hall a few years ago.
Refs were very bad.
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/boxscore?gameId=400862729
Plus 10,000,000 on the refs. A few of those turnovers on the press came from blatant grabs that went uncalled.
After the past few games, my thoughts are summarized in a very short list:
1. A win.
Exactly what we needed. Don't care who it was against. Don't care if it was at home or away. Don't care if it was delayed or relocated. Don't care if it was ugly. Let's go out and get another one as soon as possible.
Bigger problem on this team was revealed when they announced Sandy with a career high 7 rebounds.
9. Six assists, 22 TO's - any favorable outcome is accepted.
10. I've NEVER heard an announcer denigrate a kid the way they did with Traci - "terrible" entry pass, not moving the feet on defense, not coming to the ball vs. the press. We are in need of help at the point.
11. Rescheduled game in the midst/aftermath of a big storm = empty seats.
12. A win is a win is a win. We are now up to our projected 3 wins in the league. Anything from here on is gravy - and despite the fact that there are (repeated) lapses with respect to basic strategy, I think there will be at least a little gravy.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 24, 2016, 07:22:00 PM
12. A win is a win is a win. We are now up to our projected 3 wins in the league. Anything from here on is gravy - and despite the fact that there are (repeated) lapses with respect to basic strategy, I think there will be at least a little gravy.
What projection, just curious?
Kenpom had MU finishing 5th in BE win 9 conference wins pre season & Sports Illustrated had MU winning 10 conference games
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 24, 2016, 07:22:00 PM
9. Six assists, 22 TO's - any favorable outcome is accepted.
10. I've NEVER heard an announcer denigrate a kid the way they did with Traci - "terrible" entry pass, not moving the feet on defense, not coming to the ball vs. the press. We are in need of help at the point.
11. Rescheduled game in the midst/aftermath of a big storm = empty seats.
12. A win is a win is a win. We are now up to our projected 3 wins in the league. Anything from here on is gravy - and despite the fact that there are (repeated) lapses with respect to basic strategy, I think there will be at least a little gravy.
Sorry, 4 or 5 conference wins would not be considered gravy. More like dogs$%t.
IMO Wojo needs to try and develop either Haanif or Duane at PG before next year because while I believe TC will be a great PG eventually it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for the near future. A back court of Wilson, HC, and Rowsey getting the bulk of the minutes next year should be solid. Give Carter 10-15 minutes a game and hand him the keys starting in 2017-18 season.
In game adjustments from this coaching staff continue to concern me. As mentioned in previous threads an OG could be a calming influence on the bench next year.
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 24, 2016, 07:38:18 PM
IMO Wojo needs to try and develop either Haanif or Duane at PG before next year because while I believe TC will be a great PG eventually it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for the near future. A back court of Wilson, HC, and Rowsey getting the bulk of the minutes next year should be solid. Give Carter 10-15 minutes a game and hand him the keys starting in 2017-18 season.
In de game adjustments from this coaching staff continue to concern me. As mentioned in previous threads an OG could be a calming influence on the bench next year.
[/http://www.mediaite.com/online/to-all-those-new-york-city-journalists-horrified-by-cruzs-jab-get-over-yourselves/
I believe the refs in their pre game conference discuss amongst themselves that if Matt Heldt even begins take a step that might slightly resemble a screen.......call him for a moving pick. The word is out.
Coulda used Derrick against that press. Just sayin'....
13. Only 7 three point attempts
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 24, 2016, 07:22:00 PM
10. I've NEVER heard an announcer denigrate a kid the way they did with Traci - "terrible" entry pass, not moving the feet on defense, not coming to the ball vs. the press. We are in need of help at the point.
Traci HAS to be on the floor when the other team is pressing. Haanif and Cohen had no clue what to do. Traci, in most cases, either dribbled away from a double team or passed before the 2nd guy got there.
But, yes, Traci needs work on feeding the post. He has to realize he can't do it from the top of the key. There is no angle there.
Quote from: tower912 on January 24, 2016, 07:13:44 PM
1. Geezus, that was an ugly game. Thank God SJU is so bad.
2. Henry inbounding the ball may have saved the game. Amazing what a fundamental as simple as running the baseline can be.
3. Not getting blown up on the defensive boards sure does make your defense look better.
4. Contributions from lots of scorers.
5. Luke was not strong today. Butchering passes, not going up strong in traffic.
6. I am sure the blizzard contributed, but that tiny gym wasn't half full. Puts MU complaints about attendance in perspective.
7. Game never had a flow. Couldn't figure out how MU ended up 20. Figured out easily how the lead was blown.
8. Conference road win. Weird circumstances. Take it, hope the airport is open, fly away.
+1
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 24, 2016, 07:17:45 PM
After the past few games, my thoughts are summarized in a very short list:
1. A win.
Exactly what we needed. Don't care who it was against. Don't care if it was at home or away. Don't care if it was delayed or relocated. Don't care if it was ugly. Let's go out and get another one as soon as possible.
+1
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 24, 2016, 08:05:51 PM
Coulda used Derrick against that press. Just sayin'....
Ehhh I like watching the rim not break on free throws :P ?-( ::)
I'm hoping there was a valuable lesson learned on the press break today, hopefully it will pay dividends in the years to come.
SJU had 28 total points with 14 minutes to go. They proceeded to score 45 in last 14. UGH...
6 assists to 22 turnovers and still win is just amazing.
Traci Carter seems to "amped up" or something, he just wants to go full speed all the time. Maybe if he calmed down bit or got under control or something. If he continues, Wojo may just over-recruit at PG and let the chips fall.
Some don'ts: Ever let Heldt set a screen. He's been called a lot.....
Ever let Cohen inbound the ball again.
Win is a win, let's see if they can win two more to beat the 4-14 BE record of last year. Progress, right.
not trying to start anything but am i the only one that's starting to doubt Henry as a sure fire NBA talent? I haven't seen him have one dominate game all year.. Sure quiet double doubles, but he has yet to show any sort of elite ability in beating college defenders.. It's easy to grab lots of rebounds when you're that tall.. he has at best above avg post play.. Shoots loads of shots at a mediocre fg %. Lastly he seems awfully slow and just not as athletic as some may have thought.. No doubt he'll be a great college player and will see some time In an nba uniform but I'm not sure if he will be in the league more than a year or so.. might just be like buckys, DJO Lazar Etc with some small contracts here and there.. Idk am I only one seeing this ?
Henry will get better, but he might get better in the D league next year. Who is he going to defend in the league, to slow. Really at this point can not shot the ball
for a lottery pick. Fine rebounder and will get better. Shows you how bad college is, being rated the 7th pick by Draft Express. Then again, he will not have 2 guys on
his back all the time. Missed a ton of shots tonight, that is for sure.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 24, 2016, 09:09:59 PM
not trying to start anything but am i the only one that's starting to doubt Henry as a sure fire NBA talent? I haven't seen him have one dominate game all year.. Sure quiet double doubles, but he has yet to show any sort of elite ability in beating college defenders.. It's easy to grab lots of rebounds when you're that tall.. he has at best above avg post play.. Shoots loads of shots at a mediocre fg %. Lastly he seems awfully slow and just not as athletic as some may have thought.. No doubt he'll be a great college player and will see some time In an nba uniform but I'm not sure if he will be in the league more than a year or so.. might just be like buckys, DJO Lazar Etc with some small contracts here and there.. Idk am I only one seeing this ?
Well, NBA GMs and scouts certainly are NOT seeing this, so...
The man will be a millionaire next year.
Quote from: HoopsterBC on January 24, 2016, 09:16:38 PM
Henry will get better, but he might get better in the D league next year. Who is he going to defend in the league, to slow. Really at this point can not shot the ball
for a lottery pick. Fine rebounder and will get better. Shows you how bad college is, being rated the 7th pick by Draft Express. Then again, he will not have 2 guys on
his back all the time. Missed a ton of shots tonight, that is for sure.
And this is (unsurprisingly) downright silly.
* Great defensive effort to win the game.
* Turning the ball over on 27% of the possessions is just more of the same. 82 possession game is just way too much.
* Game of runs and MU's 2nd half run to go up 20 was just comfortable enough.
* Free throws the deciding factor.
* Henry 18 rebounds was a difference maker with the 9 possession differential on turnovers.
* Practice press break.
* SJU won the game of brain cramps, fortunately.
* Buy Mullin some Prosacea Rosacea cream.
Two certainties:
Henry is gone
I will be hoping like hell the Bucks don't take him (I want Dunn).
Quote from: Johnny B on January 24, 2016, 09:09:59 PM
not trying to start anything but am i the only one that's starting to doubt Henry as a sure fire NBA talent? I haven't seen him have one dominate game all year.. Sure quiet double doubles, but he has yet to show any sort of elite ability in beating college defenders.. It's easy to grab lots of rebounds when you're that tall.. he has at best above avg post play.. Shoots loads of shots at a mediocre fg %. Lastly he seems awfully slow and just not as athletic as some may have thought.. No doubt he'll be a great college player and will see some time In an nba uniform but I'm not sure if he will be in the league more than a year or so.. might just be like buckys, DJO Lazar Etc with some small contracts here and there.. Idk am I only one seeing this ?
Lots of other people are seeing it. There is an excellent scouting report on him at http://www.nbadraft.net/players/henry-ellenson where his current ranking is 23. By the way these projections are all very flimsy. Very example Ben Bentil of Providence, who is having a monster year, is nowhere on these charts. So take them with a grain of salt. Go with what your eyes tell you.
All that said, Henry is a very good college freshman and I think he will realize his elite projection by the time he is a senior. Also I do do believe there is talent in his rebounds. He has a very good idea where the ball is going to go. MU will benefit greatly from his presence here.
Of course if he is offered a decent enough contract he will likely take it.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 09:43:18 PM
Lots of other people are seeing it. There is an excellent scouting report on him at http://www.nbadraft.net/players/henry-ellenson where his current ranking is 23. By the way these projections are all very flimsy. Very example Ben Bentil of Providence, who is having a monster year, is nowhere on these charts. So take them with a grain of salt. Go with what your eyes tell you.
All that said, Henry is a very good college freshman and I think he will realize his elite projection by the time he is a senior. Also I do do believe there is talent in his rebounds. He has a very good idea where the ball is going to go. MU will benefit greatly from his presence here.
Of course if he is offered a decent enough contract he will likely take it.
:o
Quote from: The Lens on January 24, 2016, 09:41:54 PM
Two certainties:
Henry is gone
I will be hoping like hell the Bucks don't take him (I want Dunn).
Better hope the Bucks don't win another game then.
Quote from: brandx on January 24, 2016, 09:43:19 PM
Typical BC
Do you really think Henry is good enough to start next year in the NBA?? If he was my son, take the money and run, but has along way to becoming a starter
Quote from: HoopsterBC on January 24, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Do you really think Henry is good enough to start next year in the NBA?? If he was my son, take the money and run, but has along way to becoming a starter
How many rookies in the NBA are starting?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 09:43:18 PM
All that said, Henry is a very good college freshman and I think he will realize his elite projection by the time he is a senior.
I missed this gem until World just pointed it out. Wowzers
Good Lord, you would think in here we lost again based on the attitude. I watched the game on tape delay and saw the following:
1) From the time we were up 20 until the end of the game reminded me of one thing -- most of the guys on the court were freshmen. Upper classmen don't give up those kinds of leads. Freshmen frequently do. We need to learn to kill when we can and to close out games. We saw that big lead and simply got sloppy.
2) Will we ever learn to defend solidly against the "3" ball? St. John's got back in the game because of the three-pointer and the looks were too often wide open. We just don't seem top pick up shooters very well from far outside. And when we foul on a three, make it sting so they think twice about taking the shot.
3) Everybody has pointed out the turnovers. More than anything else, they were sloppy play and illustrated a problem we've had all season -- we get flustered and out of our game. Simple rule: We play OUR game, we win. We play hurried, scared or unsure and we lose. It's that simple.
4) We showed enough poise to hang on at the end. Hopefully, this is something we can build on.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 09:58:37 PM
Good Lord, you would think in here we lost again based on the attitude. I watched the game on tape delay and saw the following:
1) From the time we were up 20 until the end of the game reminded me of one thing -- most of the guys on the court were freshmen. Upper classmen don't give up those kinds of leads. Freshmen frequently do. We need to learn to kill when we can and to close out games. We saw that big lead and simply got sloppy.
2) Will we ever learn to defend solidly against the "3" ball? St. John's got back in the game because of the three-pointer and the looks were too often wide open. We just don't seem top pick up shooters very well from far outside. And when we foul on a three, make it sting so they think twice about taking the shot.
3) Everybody has pointed out the turnovers. More than anything else, they were sloppy play and illustrated a problem we've had all season -- we get flustered and out of our game. Simple rule: We play OUR game, we win. We play hurried, scared or unsure and we lose. It's that simple.
4) We showed enough poise to hang on at the end. Hopefully, this is something we can build on.
Well, actually, to 5 team and not-so-young Xavier was up 15 at St. John's and up 12 with 6 minutes to play before St. John's had cut the lead to 1 with 2:05 to play, after which the Johnnies got called for a questionable foul and then T'd up for slamming the ball into the floor.
But yeah, only Marquette could possibly let St. John's play them tough.
:o
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 24, 2016, 09:55:52 PM
I missed this gem until World just pointed it out. Wowzers
That has been my consistent position for a long time.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 10:07:04 PM
That has been my consistent position for a long time.
You think Henry will play 4 years at Marquette?
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 09:58:37 PMFrom the time we were up 20 until the end of the game reminded me of one thing -- most of the guys on the court were freshmen. Upper classmen don't give up those kinds of leads.
Just a reminder: we didn't give up the lead. We kept the lead the entire time, and we won the game.
Granted, the margin was closer than you'd expect being up 20. But learning how to seal the deal is an important lesson for a young team to learn. Marquette did that. They bent, but they didn't break. They kept the lead and earned the win.
What you're referring to is the next lesson this team has to learn: how to maintain focus, effort and intensity for 40 minutes and not let the opponent back into the game when you have them on the ropes.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 24, 2016, 10:09:41 PM
You think Henry will play 4 years at Marquette?
Yes. I think he will stay want to stay at least two with his brother. Then because he is enjoying the college experience, with a lot of good friends, he will stay for two more. His game will continue to improve each season. He comes from a stable family situation and money may not be that big a priority. Lots of good guys stay 4 years. Draymond Green, Doug McDermott, etc.
All that said, Yes ,it is very likely he could be high draft material this year. NBA drafts on projected talent and You can't teach size as they say. So if the projected draft pick is high enough he will likely go. I just don't think it will be as high as others on this message board think.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
Yes. I think he will stay want to stay at least two with his brother. Then because he is enjoying the college experience, with a lot of good friends, he will stay for two more. His game will continue to improve each season. He comes from a stable family situation and money may not be that big a priority. Lots of good guys stay 4 years. Draymond Green, Doug McDermott, etc.
All that said, Yes ,it is very likely he could be high draft material this year. NBA drafts on projected talent and You can't teach size as they say. So if the projected draft pick is high enough he will likely go. I just don't think it will be as high as others on this message board think.
Lots of people go to college for seven years....
Look up greens college stats. Why even make the comparison?
Worst case scenario is he is a first rounder with a guaranteed three year contract. He's gone.
Quote from: Johnny B on January 24, 2016, 09:09:59 PM
not trying to start anything but am i the only one that's starting to doubt Henry as a sure fire NBA talent? I haven't seen him have one dominate game all year.. Sure quiet double doubles, but he has yet to show any sort of elite ability in beating college defenders.. It's easy to grab lots of rebounds when you're that tall.. he has at best above avg post play.. Shoots loads of shots at a mediocre fg %. Lastly he seems awfully slow and just not as athletic as some may have thought.. No doubt he'll be a great college player and will see some time In an nba uniform but I'm not sure if he will be in the league more than a year or so.. might just be like buckys, DJO Lazar Etc with some small contracts here and there.. Idk am I only one seeing this ?
Funny, I had the opposite reaction. There were some moves that he made today that made me think "wow, that was a NBA move" the two he finished with his left hand were the two plays that made me think that
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 10:20:08 PM
All that said, Yes ,it is very likely he could be high draft material this year. NBA drafts on projected talent and You can't teach size as they say. So if the projected draft pick is high enough he will likely go. I just don't think it will be as high as others on this message board think.
While prior to Scoop, I remember these same type of conversations about Wade.
Henry *might* stick around, but he'll have a great opportunity to go pro.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on January 24, 2016, 10:29:51 PM
Lots of people go to college for seven years....
Look up greens college stats. Why even make the comparison?
Worst case scenario is he is a first rounder with a guaranteed three year contract. He's gone.
Green was National Player of the Year as a Senior. Izzo says he is one of the greatest Spartans ever. Other than that ,Your right, there is no comparison.
Green was drafted in the 2nd Round number 35
Your worst case scenario for Henry may be indeed be true. All it takes is one GM to believe he is next Dirk.
I am just saying there may be other considerations that come into play. Look at Tyler Hansbrough. He stayed all 4 years. I am sure he is glad he did. NBA turned out to be a lot less fun than winning championship at Carolina.
Here are quotes from Henry Per Matty V http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/366368851.html
This is clearly a kid enjoying college:
Henry Ellenson added some more details from the players' perspective about the experience following Sunday's win.
"I think if we're playing in Wisconsin or up in Rice Lake the game still would've gone on," he said with a laugh. "That was something else, just walking outside in Times Square when the streets were all closed down and there's just everyone in the street was something else.
It's an experience I'm going to remember for the rest of my life."Ellenson lauded his teammates for staying professional and still treating the situation like a business trip, but admitted it was fun, too.
When the team wasn't walking around Times Square, it was holed up in its hotel just off the busy intersection in midtown Manhattan. There, they watched the movie "Straight Outta Compton" together in a ballroom and played cards between meals and other team meetings.
"It was just being around your teammates, all your best friends, so I had a lot of fun with them," he said.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 24, 2016, 10:59:36 PM
While prior to Scoop, I remember these same type of conversations about Wade.
Henry *might* stick around, but he'll have a great opportunity to go pro.
While people were chanting, "One more year!" at the Kentucky game in Minneapolis, I was chanting "Two more years!" Man, I hilarious even as an 8th grader!
Quote from: HoopsterBC on January 24, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Do you really think Henry is good enough to start next year in the NBA?? If he was my son, take the money and run, but has along way to becoming a starter
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.
The good thing for Henry is that A) He doesn't have to move up through the ranks of 4 different levels before he reaches the big leagues and the big payday and B) He doesn't have to be Jahlil Okafor or Jabari Parker to guarantee himself multiple millions of dollars over the 3 years following this year.
Based on what he's shown so far, Henry is a top 10-15 prospect. That doesn't make him a lock. It doesn't mean all scouts agree. But they've have had lots of opportunities to see him in action against top competition — including AAU ball, as part of the U.S. world championship team, and against other top prospects like Ben Simmons here at Marquette.
Henry possesses a combination of size and skill (ball-handling, face-up shooting) that's rare. His strengths: rebounding, passing, shot-blocking instincts, work ethic, team orientation and level-headed attitude. His weaknesses: post offense, outside shooting and overall quickness (both in isolation offense and defense).
Whether he starts in the NBA is irrelevant. There have been #1 draft picks who washed out almost immediately. What matters is whether GMs think he has the potential to be an impact player. At just 19 years old, Ellenson has a lot to offer — including tremendous potential to improve his overall game.
As for what happens after this season, anybody who says they know what Henry's going to do is flat-out lying. For many players, the lure of the NBA draft (and NBA money) is too strong to resist. But every year, highly regarded players decide to forego entering the NBA draft early, for a wide range of reasons.
I'm trying to simply enjoy watching one of the most talented players to ever wear a Marquette uniform.
Now back to the game. In reviewing the stat sheet, St. John's was 9 of 23 from three-land. That's way too many points from beyond the arc. I know Wojo said he liked our defense today, but this one is glaring and someone needs to think about it.
Quote from: PaceArrow02 on January 24, 2016, 07:38:18 PM
IMO Wojo needs to try and develop either Haanif or Duane at PG before next year because while I believe TC will be a great PG eventually it just doesn't seem to be in the cards for the near future. A back court of Wilson, HC, and Rowsey getting the bulk of the minutes next year should be solid. Give Carter 10-15 minutes a game and hand him the keys starting in 2017-18 season.
In game adjustments from this coaching staff continue to concern me. As mentioned in previous threads an OG could be a calming influence on the bench next year.
You don't think Wojo and the 11 other ex-PGs on his staff are working with these guys? It's not magic. It takes time.
As for the in-game adjustments ... it took a little longer than it should have, but having Henry inbound the ball -- running the baseline if necessary -- immediately ended the turnovers vs. the press. It was a good move and Wojo (and/or assistants) deserve credit for making the adjustment -- just as they would deserve blame for not making it.
Finally, as those who have read my crapola for awhile will attest, I just about never get on the refs ... but they let St. John's get away with some serious hacks while pressing. Thankfully, it ended up not costing the game.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on January 24, 2016, 10:29:51 PM
Look up greens college stats. Why even make the comparison?
.
Exactly.
A 6' 5 1/2" power forward who averaged 3 points a game as a freshman does not go to the NBA
22 Turnovers!?!? Against St. John's!!!!! Sorry, fellow scoopers, but you gots to take off the blue and gold glasses. And don't bring up that these are just freshmen. This team (players AND coach) never faced a full court press in their earlier basketball lives? C'mon, it only takes one timeout to change inbounders, doesn't it, Coach? Do you know how close we came to losing this game? Whewww.
Now, on to a funner topic. Dick Enberg's MCGUIRE is playing for just two nights (this Mon and Tues) in Solana Beach, CA. It got a glowing preview in today's San Diego Union-Tribune sports page. I'm going. Maybe see one of two of you there?
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 11:04:35 PM
Green was National Player of the Year as a Senior. Izzo says he is one of the greatest Spartans ever. Other than that ,Your right, there is no comparison.
Green stayed in college because he wouldn't have been drafted.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.
Chad Ford has him in the top 5. That is a guaranteed deal of $3+ million per year for 3-4 years, and a year closer to his next contract when the salary cap will be in the 100 millions by then.
IMO, fairly different. If your friends son played D1, he had to stay for atleast 3 years per NCAA baseball rules:
"However, if players enroll at a four-year college, they must complete three years to regain eligibility, unless they reach age 21 before starting their third year of attendance."
You can come up with all the examples you want of players who stayed in school or declared early. But none of that matters in the least, because none of those players are Henry Ellenson. He's the one making the decision, and I have yet to hear him state anything publicly on the matter. Nothing to see here until he does.
Green is a terrible example. He had 0.00% chance of being drafted after his freshman year, 0.01% chance of being drafted after his sophomore year and 0.02% chance of being drafted after his junior year. Hell, he barely got drafted after his senior year. So stop being silly.
Blake Griffin is by far the best comparison as far as a hyped freshman who would have been a lottery pick but decided to stay for a second year. He even had his brother on the team with him.
And for the bazillionth time ...
It doesn't matter if several Scoopers (or even the majority of Scoopers) think Hank isn't "ready" for the NBA. Nor does it matter if Hank goes on to be an NBA failure after collecting his millions.
What matters is that several NBA GMs/scouting directors think Hank is a skilled 6-11 guy with the potential to be a prototypical "stretch 4."
And what really matters is if Henry wants to go pro after one year or if he wants to stick around because he simply likes the MU experience.
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:19:02 PM
Now back to the game. In reviewing the stat sheet, St. John's was 9 of 23 from three-land. That's way too many points from beyond the arc. I know Wojo said he liked our defense today, but this one is glaring and someone needs to think about it.
At least three of those makes were desperation heaves that had no business going in. Thought our defense was very solid tonight.
I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.
Love the potential in Traci. Once the game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.
Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.
Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.
Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.
All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.
Good point. Wojo made an adjustment to beat the press. He removed Sandy, gave Henry the ball, and reminded him to run the baseline until he got a pass he liked.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 24, 2016, 09:55:52 PM
I missed this gem until World just pointed it out. Wowzers
He's been saying this all year. It makes no sense.
WP68, I was referencing Sugar's charts.
Forget to mention this. Sacar Anim will be a contributor one day. Maybe even a starter. Had a nice drive for a score and played really good defense. Guarded Durand Johnson the whole time and he only managed one off balance desperation three that had no business going in. Good to have him and Heldt for short spurts
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 24, 2016, 10:59:36 PM
While prior to Scoop, I remember these same type of conversations about Wade.
Henry *might* stick around, but he'll have a great opportunity to go pro.
To me the amazing thing is how this topic seems to pop up in every thread. There was a lot of talk about Bo Ellis, too, back in the day. (Is there an emoticon somewhere with white hair in a cardigan?)
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 25, 2016, 12:22:24 AM
I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.
Love the potential in Traci. Once the game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.
Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.
Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.
Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.
All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.
Salwi, in another thread, said that Henry didn't get called for a charge that he was called for stepping out by the ref at mid-court.
Quote from: Marquette Fan In NY on January 24, 2016, 10:07:04 PM
That has been my consistent position for a long time.
Thanks Texas
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on January 25, 2016, 08:59:26 AM
Salwi, in another thread, said that Henry didn't get called for a charge that he was called for stepping out by the ref at mid-court.
I saw that. I looked at the game tracker play by play. According to that it was a charge
The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do. St Johns attempted 69 to our 52, Depaul out-shot us 57-42, and even in our win against Providence we were outshot 61-43. Against Xavier we took more shots, but the difference was Duane's ten three point attempts. The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers. Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity. Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts). That's a recipe for winning
is there a site where the full game is available for viewing, by chance?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on January 24, 2016, 09:39:30 PM
* Turning the ball over on 27% of the possessions is just more of the same. 82 possession game is just way too much.
* Free throws the deciding factor.
* Henry 18 rebounds was a difference maker with the 9 possession differential on turnovers.
* Buy Mullin some Prosacea Rosacea cream.
TO's - second worst of the season at 26.7%.. but everytime MU has given up the ball 26 to 27% of the time this year, they have won. Yuck.
Free throws not a deciding factor. Waaaay in the background.
Henry's rebounds were all defensive except for 1 (big putback!). St. John's still outrebounded MU with a 24% OR% vs. MU's 13%.
Mullin's face doesn't appear to consistent of human skin. It's wax or some other odd substance. What an odd looking fellow (nh).
This game was decided - as most games are - by FG shooting.
MU shot 53.9% eFG compared to St. John's 41.3%. That was the game.
MU shot an impressive 25-45 for 55.6% 2FG, taking into consideration the fact they were blocked 8 times, including 7 by college basketball's best shot blocker K. Yakwe.
Meanwhile St. John's had only 1 more 2FGA compared to MU and was blocked just 4 times (all Henry), yet made only 15 of 46 for 32.6%.
MU's 2-point defense continues to be a major strength.. having Luke and Henry there helps a lot.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 25, 2016, 12:22:24 AM
I was very encouraged by the performance tonight. If we had been down 15 and came back to win by 5 wed be praising this team for having the grit to come back. Basketball is a game of runs, it doesn't matter when those runs happen, only that you have more of them than your opponent does.
Love the potential in Traci. Once the game slows down for him, hes going to be the best PG weve had in a long time. He helped us break the press as much as Henry inbounding did.
Only 1 TO in the last 6 minutes, and it was a Wilson carry (not due to the press). Team/coaches adjusted and it saved the game. Plus, refs let SJU get away with murder on that press. The Ellenson charge was a joke as well. Showed some poise.
Only 7 three pointers attempted, were growing.
Only 6 assists but we scored 78 points. This was encouraging to me. I believe we lead the BEast in assists. Tonight our players figured out how to create shots for themselves. Something we havent done all season.
All that being said, it was only Zt. Johns. A depleted one at that. Gonna need to be much smarter and grow further to win more games. For now, take the W and run.
As is often the case, TAMU, I totally agree.
I turned off the TV and said, "It was a little closer than I would have liked, but we made progress tonight."
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 24, 2016, 11:27:54 PM
IMO, fairly different. If your friends son played D1, he had to stay for atleast 3 years per NCAA baseball rules:
"However, if players enroll at a four-year college, they must complete three years to regain eligibility, unless they reach age 21 before starting their third year of attendance."
I think he said his son had the choice to play D1 - not that he had played yet.
A player can sign with MLB out of high school. If he signs an LOI with a college, he can still sign with MLB.
It is only after he enrols in college that he must wait 3 years before signing with MLB (unless they are 21).
Quote from: brandx on January 25, 2016, 12:09:25 PM
I think he said his son had the choice to play D1 - not that he had played yet.
A player can sign with MLB out of high school. If he signs an LOI with a college, he can still sign with MLB.
It is only after he enrols in college that he must wait 3 years before signing with MLB (unless they are 21).
He said he picked college and stayed in school. So the 3 year rule would be in place:
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
Quote from: ODMU238 on January 25, 2016, 10:58:18 AM
The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do. St Johns attempted 69 to our 52, Depaul out-shot us 57-42, and even in our win against Providence we were outshot 61-43. Against Xavier we took more shots, but the difference was Duane's ten three point attempts. The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers. Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity. Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts). That's a recipe for winning
Maybe Duane's theory was he should shoot it before we turned it over.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 25, 2016, 10:38:14 AM
I saw that. I looked at the game tracker play by play. According to that it was a charge
The ref 35 feet away called a charge. It was a bad call.
This just in: "Ref blows charge/block call. First time ever!"
Quote from: ODMU238 on January 25, 2016, 10:58:18 AM
The biggest issue right now is that we are consistently allowing the other team to take significantly more shots than we do. The shot disparity is in large part due to two factors: defensive rebounding and turnovers. Improve in those areas, and we should close the shot disparity.Close the shot disparity, we'll make more (more attempts), they'll make less (on fewer attempts). That's a recipe for winning
Unfortunately I find this patently false. "Consistenly" implies it's the norm. Opponents have attempted 118 more FG's than us. We've tried 131 more FT's.. if we assume 47.5% x 131 = we're talking 62 possessions, or more than half of the difference is due to us getting to the line - which is a great thing as a free throw trip represents a high-ppp...
MU's turnovers are essentially flat with their opponents this season. Defensive rebounding does play a role, but part of our issue (albeit we need better DR from everyone but the Ellenson brothers) in DR% is that it's diluted by the fact that our opponents don't go to the line a lot and do not miss a lot when they get there. Meanwhile, we get to the line a lot more a miss a bit more. The result is that there are more free throw miss opportunities for the other team than there are for us... and that's one way to raise your DR% without being especially good at DR%... roughly... a defense gets 85% of missed free throws by the other team... and 66% of missed field goals..
Despite being blown out a few times, MU still holds a .06 ppp advantage over its opponents this year.
Absolutely need to take an advantage in the area of turnovers and need to get better at rebounding.. but by itself, teams taking more shots than us isn't the major problem and over half of it is due to a good thing (us going to the line more often than the other team)...
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.
So is your buddy's kid named John Elway or Drew Henson??
Quote from: dgies9156 on January 24, 2016, 11:09:47 PM
I had a friend of mine whose son had that choice. Take a cool half million from a major league baseball team and run or play college baseball. The school offering him was a good school and good baseball power, versus a cool half million signing bonus.
Kid went to college -- and stayed in college.
The message is that if Henry is THAT good, the money will be there. I've had this debate ad nauseum, but I see Henry and I see the one-and-dones at Kentucky or Duke. Henry's good, but he's not Jabari Parker or Jamil Okafur (and don't hold me to the spelling). I think Henry will be a great NBA player someday but he would be a wise young man to stay at least another year or two in college.
From what stand point would it be wise to stay in college for two years? If the season ended today he would be a top ten pick and probably top 20 at worst. He's delaying two years up income to maybe move up five spots. I personally think you develop better at the NBA level since you have more experienced coaches, more games, and better resources.
ETA looney only averaged 12/10 and had a bad hip but was still picked at 30. I don't get where people don't think he is ready for the draft. Sure He might spend some time on the bench next year but he is good enough to be a top 15 pick.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 25, 2016, 07:26:57 PM
Unfortunately I find this patently false. "Consistenly" implies it's the norm. Opponents have attempted 118 more FG's than us. We've tried 131 more FT's.. if we assume 47.5% x 131 = we're talking 62 possessions, or more than half of the difference is due to us getting to the line - which is a great thing as a free throw trip represents a high-ppp...
MU's turnovers are essentially flat with their opponents this season. Defensive rebounding does play a role, but part of our issue (albeit we need better DR from everyone but the Ellenson brothers) in DR% is that it's diluted by the fact that our opponents don't go to the line a lot and do not miss a lot when they get there. Meanwhile, we get to the line a lot more a miss a bit more. The result is that there are more free throw miss opportunities for the other team than there are for us... and that's one way to raise your DR% without being especially good at DR%... roughly... a defense gets 85% of missed free throws by the other team... and 66% of missed field goals..
Despite being blown out a few times, MU still holds a .06 ppp advantage over its opponents this year.
Absolutely need to take an advantage in the area of turnovers and need to get better at rebounding.. but by itself, teams taking more shots than us isn't the major problem and over half of it is due to a good thing (us going to the line more often than the other team)...
You are comparing season statistics(mostly bunnies) and not Big East statistics. The statistics are greatly diffeeernt, if you consider only Big East games.
Quote from: bilsu on January 25, 2016, 10:26:29 PM
You are comparing season statistics(mostly bunnies) and not Big East statistics. The statistics are greatly diffeeernt, if you consider only Big East games.
He said 'consistently,' not 'in the Big East only...
If we look at only Big East games, there are still problems with the claims..
FGA's = - 39
+/- turnovers = only -6
So.. is it defensive rebounding? No. MU's defensive rebounding allows the opp to get 31.8% of its opportunities. Not wildly out of whack.
What is an issue is offensive rebounding, where MU is only collecting 22.7% of its opportunities.
As mentioned in an SJU post, of Henry's 18 boards, only 1 was offensive. His OR% in conference play is ~6%. Other than the Ellensons and Luke, no one on this team who gets minutes has rebounded the o-boards all season.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 26, 2016, 07:34:32 AM
He said 'consistently,' not 'in the Big East only...
If we look at only Big East games, there are still problems with the claims..
FGA's = - 39
+/- turnovers = only -6
So.. is it defensive rebounding? No. MU's defensive rebounding allows the opp to get 31.8% of its opportunities. Not wildly out of whack.
What is an issue is offensive rebounding, where MU is only collecting 22.7% of its opportunities.
As mentioned in an SJU post, of Henry's 18 boards, only 1 was offensive. His OR% in conference play is ~6%. Other than the Ellensons and Luke, no one on this team who gets minutes has rebounded the o-boards all season.
Is this by design? Would it kill us to have a little more effort on the offensive glass, possibly sacrificing more fast break points?
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 26, 2016, 07:50:53 AM
Is this by design? Would it kill us to have a little more effort on the offensive glass, possibly sacrificing more fast break points?
I dont think its about getting back on d. I think its about protecting the bigs from early foul trouble.
Luke has been in early foul trouble the last two games. He gets called on an arm bar push off in the post and he seems to get called for the Matt Heldt/Chris Otule moving screen at 35' from the hoop.
With those things working against him, and he doesn't clean that up, Luke cannot afford to give a foul attempting an offen. rebound.
This needs to be Sandy or Wally, IMO