Henry
Henry. Points, rebounds, was the only inbounder on the press not to consistently pass it to the wrong place. 4 blocks.
Ellenson.
No one should get it.
Ellenson. They played pretty well overall with the exception of handling the full court press.
Top three finishers in order.
1. HE
2. Duane
3. Haanif
Best play: Traci picking Musini's pocket and throwing up the lob for a Cohen dunk. A couple of HE blocks close behind.
Worst play: Ref from half court calling HE for charging under the basket when the ref who was right there (and the TV commentators) could see no foul.
Henry played the best, and is our best press break. I will say, Jujuan played tough and solid minutes for us. Duane also hit some very big shots.
The second half of that game was Us in a nutshell. We looked like a contender in the Big East and the worst team. There's so much potential with this team. I think we are going in the right direction, just tough to watch at times.
Quote from: Crean to Ann Arbor on January 24, 2016, 05:05:13 PM
Top three finishers in order.
1. HE
2. Duane
3. Haanif
Best play: Traci picking Musini's pocket and throwing up the lob for a Cohen dunk. A couple of HE blocks close behind.
Worst play: Ref from half court calling HE for charging under the basket when the ref who was right there (and the TV commentators) could see no foul.
Call was he stepped on the line not an offensive, still bad call and shouldn't have been made by ref at mid court.
Henry for being the only one to be able to throw the ball inbounds when pressed
Quote from: sailwi on January 24, 2016, 05:13:18 PM
Call was he stepped on the line not an offensive, still bad call and shouldn't have been made by ref at mid court.
Thanks for clarifying that. TV guys totally missed called that.
Henry has very good instincts on defensive rebounds. Those boards made a huge difference today.
Duane had a very good game as well. Two in a row.
Quote from: sailwi on January 24, 2016, 05:13:18 PM
Call was he stepped on the line not an offensive, still bad call and shouldn't have been made by ref at mid court.
Are you sure? Game log has a HE turnover and foul at the 6:23 mark of the 2nd half.
He had like 9 rebounds at the 11 minute mark. Definitely Hank.
1. HE. 17 boards sealed it.
2. Du. Good to see him out together back to back games. Though he has to stop the carry.
3. JjJ. Solid contribution.
4. Hanie.
I hadn't seen anything about the game unto I saw the scroll at the bottom of the screen. Stupid.
Take the win and run. Go Warriors.
Henry. Not for his stats. For being the guy who settled the team down and got the ball to the right places to break the press.
Gotta go with the guy from Rice Lake.
Henry, impressive inbounds, made breaking the press a lot easier. Surprised at Sandy's inbounds.
Hank for the great rebounding.
Henry. Most of his rebounds were right to him, but the overall line is hard to ignore. The blocks, inbounds, and doing enough at the line to keep the lead. Had Duane kept up his first half he'd have been right there, but Hank kept it up all game long.
King Henry
That Ellenson kid. The H, not the W.
Henry
Henry.
Haanif and Duane had decent games too. But Duane needs to stop carrying the ball.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on January 24, 2016, 05:25:52 PM
This
Why?
It was a sloppy game under very bizarre circumstance but it was a BE road win and there were many positives:
- HE's focus on defense when his offense wasn't there in the first half
- D Wilson's ability to show 'toughness/leadership' (except the first 10 of the 2nd half)
- Luke's ever extending hook
- TC's ability to do the brilliant brilliantly which shows an awesome potential for him to do the mundane brilliantly in the next 3 years
- etc, etc
Henry was 4 for 13 from the field, but had 18 boards and 4 blocks to make up for poor shooting.
Wilson shot 6 for 10 and had 17 points, but 4 ugly turnovers.
I go with the 18 boards and 4 blocks guy.
Quote from: MUDPT on January 24, 2016, 05:38:33 PM
Are you sure? Game log has a HE turnover and foul at the 6:23 mark of the 2nd half.
Well now I am not so sure, I wasn't listening intently and it never crossed my mind that was an O foul but since the ref at mid court called it it would make more sense that it was a foul vs stepping on the line. The replay seemed to concentrate on where his feet were on the drive so I just assumed it was stepping on the line. It looks like I stand corrected.
Henry.
Oh Henry!
Quote from: Class71 on January 24, 2016, 05:00:17 PM
No one should get it.
That's the spirit!
I would've guessed you would've been class of like 1951.
Quote from: mileskishnish72 on January 24, 2016, 07:15:46 PM
Gotta go with the guy from Rice Lake.
I didn't think Walter was as good as usual.
Hank.
Glad Duane has answered the bell and put together a couple solid games. Need him to play like this every game. But he HAS to stop compounding mistakes. Sometimes players force things and try to drive through 5 defenders. Unfortunately it happens. But you CANNOT think "Well crap, that wasn't good, so let me go make up for it by swatting this guy who is wide open for 3 from behind because I ended up on the floor after my missed shot!" and then foul a 26% 3 point shooter.
Henri
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 24, 2016, 07:30:32 PM
Henry. Most of his rebounds were right to him,,,
How does this happen time after time, game after game?
Because Henry pays attention to the shot, quickly recognizes whether it's left or right, long or short, knows where it's likely to go, and puts himself in the best position to get the rebound. And once he's got his hands on the ball, chances are nobody is swatting or grabbing it away from him.
That's not luck. That's not just Henry being big (although it certainly helps). He has a rare ability, physically and mentally, when it comes to securing missed shots. He's easily the best rebounder at Marquette in more than 25 years. Did you know he's averaging more rebounds per game than any other freshman in school history? The current record was set back in 1974 by none other than Bo Ellis.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 24, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
Did you know he's averaging more rebounds per game than any other freshman in school history? The current record was set back in 1974 by none other than Bo Ellis.
Thank you, the "Henry is just getting lazy rebounds" narrative is really annoying, and ignorant.
Hank, and by a fairly large margin.
And I second the call to please stop with the "rebounds just fall in his hands" mantra. It's dopey and dishonest.
Henry.
But I'm not discounting 3 others who played like MEN. Du, JJJ and Traci. This is BEast basketball. DEMAND performance.
HE Man
Henry... even though I've been hard on him most of the year. He made good passes, made his FT's late, was key to the press break, and the rebounding... wow. They only come right to him because he's in the right place. Has anyone ever been drafted in the first round ONLY for rebounding ability? I believe that's his only NBA ready skill right now, but it's so good that it'll get him a job somewhere.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 24, 2016, 10:00:49 PM
How does this happen time after time, game after game?
He's good at positioning, but still doesn't fight for boards. Henry's boards come from good positioning and size. But he still doesn't box out well (see Yakwe's easy putback) and is often nearly invisible on the offensive glass.
The kid is the best natural rebounder I've ever seen at Marquette, but if he played with the tenacity and physicality of Jae Crowder, he'd average 15 per game.
I always thought Dwyane Wade scored too easily.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 25, 2016, 05:52:01 AM
He's good at positioning, but still doesn't fight for boards. Henry's boards come from good positioning and size. But he still doesn't box out well (see Yakwe's easy putback) and is often nearly invisible on the offensive glass.
The kid is the best natural rebounder I've ever seen at Marquette, but if he played with the tenacity and physicality of Jae Crowder, he'd average 15 per game.
Could Henry improve? Absolutely. His tremendous potential is one of the reasons he's a top 10-15 pro prospect. But I don't think it's fair at all to say he doesn't play or try hard enough. I expect that his teammates and coaches would 100% disagree.
You're comparing Henry as a 19 year old freshman who's played fewer than 20 games at Marquette with Jae Crowder as a 22 year old senior who had played 72 games in Division I, including 6 NCAA tournament games.
Jae "only" averaged 6.8 rebounds per game his junior year. He wasn't named the Big East player of the year. He wasn't an All-American. Does that mean he didn't work hard enough for rebounds then? Of course not.
Henry is an elite rebounder. One of the best in the nation. One of the best who's ever played at Marquette. That doesn't happen for lack of effort.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 25, 2016, 05:52:01 AM
He's good at positioning, but still doesn't fight for boards. Henry's boards come from good positioning and size. But he still doesn't box out well (see Yakwe's easy putback) and is often nearly invisible on the offensive glass.
The kid is the best natural rebounder I've ever seen at Marquette, but if he played with the tenacity and physicality of Jae Crowder, he'd average 15 per game.
A lot of the reason guys like Crowder and Wally show so much effort on the boards is because they weren't in good position to start with. Henrys better at that. Size doesnt hurt either. I saw some very high effort rebounds by HE last night.
It's like web gems in baseball. A lot of them happen because the defensive player had poor positioning in the first place abd needed a web gem in order to make up for it
Question for those that know the stats better than me: What's the general value of a defensive rebound vs. an offensive rebound in terms or a player's contribution to their team's chances of winning? I ask because I found myself wondering if I'd be more ok with HE getting 12 defensive + 1-2 offensive for a total of 13-14 vs. his 18 defensive + 0 offensive yesterday. In other words sacrificing some of his defensive boards if it meant he'd get a couple on the other end. Is there any real math/science behind this feeling, or do the numbers not back that up at all?
I think it's partly a difference in temperament, as well. Jae is a very emotional player. And that's putting it lightly. The image of him that's forever burned in my mind is him throwing his head back, eyes shut, as he lets out a primal scream after a big play.
Well, not every player is Jae. Henry keeps his emotions more in check during a game. He's more cool, calm and collected. That doesn't mean he's not focused, or doesn't feel emotion, or doesn't care, or isn't putting forth a full effort. It just means he doesn't show it. One isn't better than the other.
Ultimately, basketball is a game of results. Not style points. You have more points on the scoreboard at the end of the game, you're the better team. And if you pull down more rebounds, you're the better rebounder. Seems pretty simple to me.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 25, 2016, 08:43:20 AM
Question for those that know the stats better than me: What's the general value of a defensive rebound vs. an offensive rebound in terms or a player's contribution to their team's chances of winning? I ask because I found myself wondering if I'd be more ok with HE getting 12 defensive + 1-2 offensive for a total of 13-14 vs. his 18 defensive + 0 offensive yesterday. In other words sacrificing some of his defensive boards if it meant he'd get a couple on the other end. Is there any real math/science behind this feeling, or do the numbers not back that up at all?
I'm not sure how you can sacrifice defensive rebounds for the sake of offensive ones. My guess is that Henry doesn't get a lot of offensive rebounds because he shoots more than anyone on the team and usually isn't near the basket when other's shoot.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 25, 2016, 08:47:47 AM
I'm not sure how you can sacrifice defensive rebounds for the sake of offensive ones. My guess is that Henry doesn't get a lot of offensive rebounds because he shoots more than anyone on the team and usually isn't near the basket when other's shoot.
In this game Henry shot 30.8% from the floor, he missed 9 shots. Usually bigs get their offensive rebounds on their own misses, so I'm not sure that is a legitimate explanation.
Quote from: Marcus92 on January 25, 2016, 08:45:36 AM
I think it's partly a difference in temperament, as well. Jae is a very emotional player. And that's putting it lightly. The image of him that's forever burned in my mind is him throwing his head back, eyes shut, as he lets out a primal scream after a big play.
Well, not every player is Jae. Henry keeps his emotions more in check during a game. He's more cool, calm and collected. That doesn't mean he's not focused, or doesn't feel emotion, or doesn't care, or isn't putting forth a full effort. It just means he doesn't show it. One isn't better than the other.
Ultimately, basketball is a game of results. Not style points. You have more points on the scoreboard at the end of the game, you're the better team. And if you pull down more rebounds, you're the better rebounder. Seems pretty simple to me.
Nailed it. You're quickly becoming one of the best posters on Scoop.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 25, 2016, 08:47:47 AM
I'm not sure how you can sacrifice defensive rebounds for the sake of offensive ones. My guess is that Henry doesn't get a lot of offensive rebounds because he shoots more than anyone on the team and usually isn't near the basket when other's shoot.
Correct, I realize that rebounds aren't a commodity that you give up in one area to gain in the other, but I'm just wondering how much more valuable an offensive rebound is than a defensive one.
The bolded part I agree with and find troubling. Is a lack of crashing the offensive boards explicitly part of our gameplan? It seems like with the way this team goes on shooting slumps a few extra offensive boards wouldn't hurt.
Quote from: WarriorFan on January 25, 2016, 02:16:05 AM
Henry... even though I've been hard on him most of the year. He made good passes, made his FT's late, was key to the press break, and the rebounding... wow. They only come right to him because he's in the right place. Has anyone ever been drafted in the first round ONLY for rebounding ability? I believe that's his only NBA ready skill right now, but it's so good that it'll get him a job somewhere.
If Henry goes pro, he won't be drafted in the first round ONLY for rebounding ability. He will be drafted in the first round -- likely the first 10 -- because of his unique skill set for a man his size and, mostly, because of his potential.
The GM who drafts Hank will not be expecting him to be NBA-ready on Day 1.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 24, 2016, 10:12:26 PM
Thank you, the "Henry is just getting lazy rebounds" narrative is really annoying, and ignorant.
Right now, I'm not overwhelmed by Henry the shooter or Henry the post up or Henry the passer or Henry the defender, but Henry the rebounder is outstanding.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 25, 2016, 06:59:32 AM
I always thought Dwyane Wade scored too easily.
The shots from him just fell in, he really didn't deserve too much credit.
Quote from: forgetful on January 25, 2016, 08:55:08 AM
In this game Henry shot 30.8% from the floor, he missed 9 shots. Usually bigs get their offensive rebounds on their own misses, so I'm not sure that is a legitimate explanation.
He's usually missing from further out though.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 25, 2016, 09:16:55 AM
Right now, I'm not overwhelmed by Henry the shooter or Henry the post up or Henry the passer or Henry the defender, but Henry the rebounder is outstanding.
Right. I can see where Henry the shooter and passer have potential. Defender might need some work though.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 25, 2016, 09:16:55 AM
Right now, I'm not overwhelmed by Henry the shooter or Henry the post up or Henry the passer or Henry the defender, but Henry the rebounder is outstanding.
Agree. Pretty solid ball handler too.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 25, 2016, 08:58:37 AM
Correct, I realize that rebounds aren't a commodity that you give up in one area to gain in the other, but I'm just wondering how much more valuable an offensive rebound is than a defensive one.
The bolded part I agree with and find troubling. Is a lack of crashing the offensive boards explicitly part of our gameplan? It seems like with the way this team goes on shooting slumps a few extra offensive boards wouldn't hurt.
Good question. I'd have to imagine the offensive ppp on offensive rebound possessions is higher than on defensive ones, but conversely, the defensive rebound is also preventing the offense from getting a similarly easy opportunity.
Also, saying Jae got effort rebounds because of poor position isn't accurate. Yes, he had more diving plays, more saved out of bounds plays, but he also boxed out much better. He used his body better.
Henry is great at positioning and corraling, but he's part of the reason we get killed on the offensive glass (yesterday was better, but not the norm for him) on both ends. As Sultan noted, his propensity to shoot (at a low eFG%) takes him out of position for offensive boards, while his difficulties boxing out allow the opposition to clean up their own misses.
I agree that Henry is the best rebounder we've had in ages. He's better than Lazar, Jimmy, or Jae, but all three were better at using their bodies to keep the opponent off the glass. He's a freshman, so I expect that, but if he had their technique, he'd be a true terror. Sadly, he'll probably learn that from NBA coaches.
Henry.
I'm late in voting because I watched the taped delay version.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 24, 2016, 10:12:26 PM
Thank you, the "Henry is just getting lazy rebounds" narrative is really annoying, and ignorant.
Kind of like Derrick's basic assits ai_na?
Mods I know you have lives outside of scoop and I love yall but if we can please get the SOTG for St. Johns up so I don't have to stare are the no stud when we lose for Depaul. Please and thanks.