Why wait? I am going to post and turn off the computer.
1. Hope nobody gets hurt in the last 10 minutes.
2. I am now 3-0 on my predictions for the year. FYI, I predicted 17-15 for the season.
3. Men versus boys.
4. I am going to appreciate all of those cupcakes in December. Hopefully, the frosh can use that time to figure it out.
5. They came out and competed in the second half. Embrace that.
6. Need a leader.
7. I believe with every fiber of my being that this team will get better.
8. One day, we will look back at this game and laugh. Come off the ledge.
9. Respect the process.
10. We look terrible
The "we'll get better" wishcasting doesn't hold up anymore.
If you have a team that cannot shoot the basketball, that team will stink.
Wojo has me longing for the days of Mike Deane.
11. crean sucks
Reminds me a lot of KO's first year, lots of freshmen, lots of basketball that wasn't very good. But they grew, and got a lot better.
Quote from: real chili 83 on November 19, 2015, 09:40:36 PM
11. crean sucks
Right now I'd trade Wojo and a bag of balls for him in a heartbeat.
Quote from: tower912 on November 19, 2015, 09:37:25 PM
8. One day, we will look back at this game and laugh. Come off the ledge.
Don't follow this at all--like the Vandy game? That was hilarious-LOL as I think back.
This team will improve.
10. JJJ was the silver lining. Showed he could make something happen against a quality team.
11. Good learning experience for all the freshman.
12. Wojo needs to embrace defense again.
After watching this game, can't think! :P
Defense, more Luke -- stop chucking.
Ah they will be fine. Maybe not this year, but I still like the guys they have. Right now it's high school players vs veteran, solid college players. As far as the coaching goes, hopefully wojo is eventually able to get through to these guys. We are not there yet. There is really no point in bashing wojo at this point. He is our guy.
Why are we so lousy on defense?
You can tell a veteran team that knows what it is doing versus a young team that doesn't.
Getting pounded by an unranked team, at home, by a team that recently lost at home to D2 team, is about as bad as it gets. This is Dukiet level of crapiness. :'(
Scotch is good....growing pains are painful....oh, and cheatham will be a stud before it is said and done at MU
Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 19, 2015, 10:03:16 PM
Getting pounded by an unranked team, at home, by a team that recently lost at home to D2 team, is about as bad as it gets. This is Dukiet level of crapiness. :'(
They lost an exhibition game, which means NOTHING.
This is a very very good Iowa team. Preseason rankings, mean NOTHING.
Yes, we got pounded. I had us losing by double digits....not this bad, but 12 to 15. We'll get better. Humiliation has a way of usually making people step up and not want to be humiliated again.
Yes, this team will improve, but so will most teams during the year. Problem is they have to date shown little progress. The score simply does not reflect how much work there to fix this leaking boat.
Was this on National TV?
Really dont know why people expected much from this years team...yeah this game sucked, but its gonna be another long year. Deal with it and lets move on...
Or maybe player rankings mean nothing especially when it's based AAU. o'Neill played freshman against top teams like Duke and they never were humiliated like this. At some point coaching and preparation needs to be scrutinized. I will admit that Iowa was very good tonight.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2015, 10:06:23 PM
They lost an exhibition game, which means NOTHING.
This is a very very good Iowa team. Preseason rankings, mean NOTHING.
Yes, we got pounded. I had us losing by double digits....not this bad, but 12 to 15. We'll get better. Humiliation has a way of usually making people step up and not want to be humiliated again.
We are not a good team.
All three games have the same awful ingredients. Very bad defense. Very bad 3 point shooting. Too much dribbling east/west.
I don't have high hopes of substantial improvement this year. This team has to figure it out on the defensive end if they want to win any meaningful games but the consistent bad defense is very troubling as that is the easiest to fix and work on.
Besides the defense, this team is missing a legitimate point guard to run the offense. Cheatam, Carter and DWilson are not legitimate point guards.
Glad to see JJJ play a good game.
Quote from: mufanatic on November 19, 2015, 10:13:50 PM
We are not a good team.
All three games have the same awful ingredients. Very bad defense. Very bad 3 point shooting. Too much dribbling east/west.
I don't have high hopes of substantial improvement this year. This team has to figure it out on the defensive end if they want to win any meaningful games but the consistent bad defense is very troubling as that is the easiest to fix and work on.
Glad to see JJJ play a good game.
I'm struggling mightily to understand the offense. How are we still playing pass around the perimeter until someone has a marginal look from three?
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 19, 2015, 10:16:18 PM
I'm struggling mightily to understand the offense. How are we still playing pass around the perimeter until someone has a marginal look from three?
Exactly. Very poor decision making on offense, I was shaking my head the whole game in disbelief.
Quote from: Class71 on November 19, 2015, 10:08:02 PM
The score simply does not reflect how much work there to fix this leaking boat.
I think the score pretty much reflected everything.
Happiness doesn't depend upon who you are or what you have; it depends solely on what you think!
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 19, 2015, 10:16:18 PM
I'm struggling mightily to understand the offense. How are we still playing pass around the perimeter until someone has a marginal look from three?
For all the point guards we have on the bench in suits, I think Wojo forgot to recruit one that has any eligibility.
When do we install the offense?
I like our team, they are just bad at basketball
Query: Supposedly Wojo eased out Burton because Wojo is a big defensive guy and Burton couldn't play defense. So now we have a team full of guys who can't play defense. But at least burton had some offensive abilities. What am I missing here?
Quote from: Mutaman on November 19, 2015, 10:30:34 PM
Query: Supposedly Wojo eased out Burton because Wojo is a big defensive guy and Burton couldn't play defense. So now we have a team full of guys who can't play defense. But at least burton had some offensive abilities. What am I missing here?
Man I miss Burton & freaking Steve Taylor right about now
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 19, 2015, 10:32:45 PM
Man I miss Burton & freaking Steve Taylor right about now
While Burton would be nice to have around, those two wouldn't have made any difference tonight.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on November 19, 2015, 10:32:45 PM
Man I miss Burton & freaking Steve Taylor right about now
Lol neither would really provide anything to this team, except more guys that get beat off the dribble.
No thanks on Burton and Taylor. Garbage players.
Biggest disappointment of the game for me was Henry...soft with the ball all game and a poor attitude
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 19, 2015, 10:16:18 PM
I'm struggling mightily to understand the offense. How are we still playing pass around the perimeter until someone has a marginal look from three?
I would have liked to have seen some more passing around the perimeter. Too often, the first guy who caught it -- or even the first guy who dribbled up court -- just jacked one up.
Very difficult to win in college basketball when you don't get good PG play and you can't make a 3. Add in poor defense and it's impossible to beat a good team.
As a bonus, Ellenson looked uber-frustrated tonight.
Quote from: Blueprint on November 19, 2015, 10:24:57 PM
When do we install the offense?
After he installs his defense haha! We are still waiting for that to happen first
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on November 19, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Lol neither would really provide anything to this team, except more guys that get beat off the dribble.
Completely disagree.
Wojo said that teams are daring MU to shoot the ball. He said "our guys are tempted and give in, they need to drive more"
Burton would have driven the ball. Burton would have dropped 40 tonight (with zero assists, but still). I joke around on here a lot, but I am serious. With so much deference being shown by the current players, I legitimately belive Burton would have dropped at least 30.
Quote from: Eldon on November 19, 2015, 10:39:33 PM
Completely disagree.
Wojo said that teams are daring MU to shoot the ball. He said "our guys are tempted and give in, they need to drive more"
Burton would have driven the ball. Burton would have dropped 40 tonight (with zero assists, but still). I joke around on here a lot, but I am serious. With so much deference being shown by the current players, I legitimately belive Burton would have dropped at least 30.
Maybe 60.
Hey Toto, we aren't in Italy anymore!!
I was sold a bill of goods on Traci being Isaiah Thomas; Henry is Bird; Duane is Wade.
I am done with the offseason recruiting hype. SHOW ME
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2015, 09:40:50 PM
Reminds me a lot of KO's first year, lots of freshmen, lots of basketball that wasn't very good. But they grew, and got a lot better.
Reasonable comparison, Chicos.
I think folks here already have forgotten that KO's first three years were 15-14, 11-18, 16-13.
He would have been "fired" here on Scoop about three games into his second season.
Quote from: MuEagle1090 on November 19, 2015, 10:36:27 PM
Lol neither would really provide anything to this team, except more guys that get beat off the dribble.
Most folks are saying Burton will contribute to a team that is presently ranked 7th in the country so I suspect he could have contributed something here. If nothing else a little experience. But the Burton affair led me to believe that Wojo was this hard nosed defensive guru. When will we start seeing that?
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 10:42:54 PM
Reasonable comparison, Chicos.
I think folks here already have forgotten that KO's first three years were 15-14, 11-18, 16-13.
He would have been "fired" here on Scoop about three games into his second season.
!5-14? Where do I sign?
This is a young team. Respect the process.
Henry had Derrick Wilson numbers tonight
You can't compare O'Neill's situation to Wojo's. With O'Neill we had a decade + of incompetence and we were becoming DePaul. Most believed MU could not compete anymore. I met O'Neill at a DePaul vs MU game at our lowest and he pumped me up. You could see the potential talent and had to be patient. Sorry but the fact is we are a lilttle over 2 yrs away from 3+ yrs of Sweet 16+, we have a better stadium, better infrastructure, world class training center and we pay coaches more(Top10). Earn It !!!!
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 10:42:54 PM
Reasonable comparison, Chicos.
I think folks here already have forgotten that KO's first three years were 15-14, 11-18, 16-13.
He would have been "fired" here on Scoop about three games into his second season.
Glad we've stopped comparing Wojo to Al and started comparing to KO. Don't worry, you'll get to Dean soon.
Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 19, 2015, 10:12:55 PM
Or maybe player rankings mean nothing especially when it's based AAU. o'Neill played freshman against top teams like Duke and they never were humiliated like this. At some point coaching and preparation needs to be scrutinized. I will admit that Iowa was very good tonight.
No argument from me, player rankings for fans and there is a lot of fluff to them. I'm not crazy about them except that it can help recruiting if you can say we are getting a top 10 class, etc, etc. At the end of the day, can these guys play. Can they shoot, defend, score the ball, hustle, etc. We'll find out.
Quote from: MU82 on November 19, 2015, 10:42:54 PM
Reasonable comparison, Chicos.
I think folks here already have forgotten that KO's first three years were 15-14, 11-18, 16-13.
He would have been "fired" here on Scoop about three games into his second season.
Yuppers
Quote from: mcderjim on November 19, 2015, 11:28:35 PM
You can't compare O'Neill's situation to Wojo's. With O'Neill we had a decade + of incompetence and we were becoming DePaul. Most believed MU could not compete anymore. I met O'Neill at a DePaul vs MU game at our lowest and he pumped me up. You could see the potential talent and had to be patient. Sorry but the fact is we are a lilttle over 2 yrs away from 3+ yrs of Sweet 16+, we have a better stadium, better infrastructure, world class training center and we pay coaches more(Top10). Earn It !!!!
Not comparing the situations they inherited, but I do see a parallel with the youth and mismatched toys. Buzz had a bunch of mismatched toys his last year. Wojo's first year, the same with transfers, etc. This year, super young....guards guards guards...we need smart guards, good ball handlers that can shoot. Hopefully someone steps up.
The only thing I could think of all game...
https://www.youtube.com//v/qi1LMIUOOAI
Iowa is going to do quite well in a very very very tough Big Ten this year.
Warriors lose both games in Brooklyn to fall to 1-4.
We then win 6 of 7, all against cupcakes and all at home, with the loss coming at Wisconsin. With some confidence, we then beat Seton Hall at home to open the Big East season. That makes us 8-5, with wins in 7 of 8 games.
In that time, maybe some of the roles have been established, the guys have figured out how to work together, Wojo improves as a coach, etc. We're still not world-beaters, but we have a chance to win some games, maybe finish with a winning record with this young team.
Is that an outrageous look at what's to come the rest of 2015 for the Warriors? How horrible would that outcome be?
Quote from: Warrior of Law on November 19, 2015, 10:12:55 PM
Or maybe player rankings mean nothing especially when it's based AAU. o'Neill played freshman against top teams like Duke and they never were humiliated like this. At some point coaching and preparation needs to be scrutinized. I will admit that Iowa was very good tonight.
I remember a game way worse than this one unfortunately. Kansas in the pre-season albeit in Lawrence. Wowza. I believe we had 30 turnovers and lost by 35.
One thing about that '90 team is that Logtermann was playing point and like Cheatam, was really out of position. It wasn't until Miller joined that things came together.
We need a legit point guard.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on November 19, 2015, 11:57:48 PM
I remember a game way worse than this one unfortunately. Kansas in the pre-season albeit in Lawrence. Wowza. I believe we had 30 turnovers and lost by 35.
One thing about that '90 team is that Logtermann was playing point and like Cheatam, was really out of position. It wasn't until Miller came that things come together.
We need a legit point guard.
And our shoes blew up....LA Gear baby.
Quote from: tower912 on November 19, 2015, 09:37:25 PM
Why wait? I am going to post and turn off the computer.
1. Hope nobody gets hurt in the last 10 minutes.
2. I am now 3-0 on my predictions for the year. FYI, I predicted 17-15 for the season.
3. Men versus boys.
4. I am going to appreciate all of those cupcakes in December. Hopefully, the frosh can use that time to figure it out.
5. They came out and competed in the second half. Embrace that.
6. Need a leader.
7. I believe with every fiber of my being that this team will get better.
8. One day, we will look back at this game and laugh. Come off the ledge.
9. Respect the process.
You, sir, have your head on straight. I believe this 100%
1. We are bad shooters.
2. We are bad passers.
3. We are bad dribblers.
4. We are out of control.
5. We play bad defense.
Yes, it will get better. It couldn't get no worse.
This team's motto should be "Turning sure wins into nail biters, toss up games into losses, and legitimate opponents into blow out losses."
A couple of replays on the overhead cam showed the MU offense in action or inaction might be a more appropriate description. Four guys standing outside the 3 pt arc and one guy dribbling while trying to penetrate. No off-the-ball screens, no cutting, a lot of standing around, when someone did move it looked like slow motion. Can anyone decipher what offense Wojo has installed?
Quote from: murphmurphy on November 20, 2015, 02:31:42 AM
A couple of replays on the overhead cam showed the MU offense in action or inaction might be a more appropriate description. Four guys standing outside the 3 pt arc and one guy dribbling while trying to penetrate. No off-the-ball screens, no cutting, a lot of standing around, when someone did move it looked like slow motion. Can anyone decipher what offense Wojo has installed?
It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.
I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite. Henry would be a great guy to have there because he can shoot the midrange so defenses would clapse on him which would open up driving lanes for Duane and JJJ on the wings.
You could also have Sandy in the corner and have Luke come set a screen for him backdoor for a pass from henry. But beating a zone all comes down to the guy sitting at the free throw line. I don't think Wojo should be fired and deserves the benefit of the doubt, but we actually have the personnel to run a good offense against the zone even if we don't have shooters, and that lies squarely on Wojo.
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 20, 2015, 03:27:21 AM
It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.
I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite.
Side middle side, side middle side, pass pass pass. Excellent point as I always thought you beat a zone with quick crisp passing and get the defense moving, relocate for quick uncontested shots. Basically what Iowa did to our zone when they shredded it.
Maybe our guys should quit being line huggers on 3 pointers. Heck, back up a step. Luke did get some inside buckets off of pin downs and high low passes . That was encouraging. As a big man though it has to suck running back only to watch your guards Jack an ill advised 3 pointer before you barely get down to offense.
I guess I'm alright with us losing to a Big 10 team. I'm not alright with the lack of urgency to get back on defense and find your man. Iowa just jumped us, pushed the ball up with quick passes, and the defense never really seemed to recover as guys were not sprinting back.
To think, I almost thought of driving two hours to watch this game!
Turns out I was optimistic when I said we will lose by 12-15. We will lose twice in Brooklyn.
Last night was tough.
We will get better. We will be very good.
The biggest head scratcher for me was the time out when Wojo told the team to get the ball in the middle, and the team came out and chucked up a three. What were they thinking?
This team needs to learn how to listen to their coach. Perhaps it's all the hype they've heard about being a top ten class. Who knows.
Perhaps when this season is over, last night's loss will have been a blessing. Time will tell....and there is lots of time to figure this out.
Do you remember in the Kill Bill movies when Uma Thurman is dropped off with the martial arts master and tries to impress him with her skills? Kind of what this feels like. I expected this team to struggle. I never bought into the notion that a #10 ranked recruiting class was going to come in and magically mesh into a good team immediately. It just doesn't work like that. Sure, there are outliers. The Fab 5, Kentucky recently. Those are the exceptions, not the norm.
Eventually: The team will understand their defensive responsibilities.
Just because you have an open look from 3 does not mean you should shoot it.
To grind out offensive possessions and work for paint touches with your talented big guys.
But not yet.
Like everyone else I was really optimistic about this season. After Wojo's excellent recruiting, I expected highly competitive play this year. What a let down. There is no defense. Shooters who can't shoot. And lousy coaching. What is going on?
Lots of talent on this team, but the results are not there. So far--unacceptable.
So much for high HS rankings!
So much for a top 10 recruiting class!
So much for power point demos!
Now we shall see how these guys respond, and who steps forward.
Not playing as a team. 9 TO's out of our Frosh PG's. Soft inside. Recipe for disaster!
Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on November 20, 2015, 03:27:21 AM
It's this 3 man weave that coaches love to run now a days. I personally hate it even when you have shooter. It doesn't make sense against a zone which MU is gonna see all year.
I think you started to see this the 2nd half but to beat a zone you need to stick a guy right on the free throw line, get the ball to him so they can turn and look opposite. Henry would be a great guy to have there because he can shoot the midrange so defenses would clapse on him which would open up driving lanes for Duane and JJJ on the wings.
You could also have Sandy in the corner and have Luke come set a screen for him backdoor for a pass from henry. But beating a zone all comes down to the guy sitting at the free throw line. I don't think Wojo should be fired and deserves the benefit of the doubt, but we actually have the personnel to run a good offense against the zone even if we don't have shooters, and that lies squarely on Wojo.
I agree with most of this. I run this exact offense for the middle-school team I coach -- I'm not looking for applause, given that it's a pretty obvious offense against a 2-3 zone, which is mostly what we face. It works well as long as you move the ball crisply and your high-post player is a good passer who can knock down the 10-15 footer.
However, it definitely helps -- and in college these days, it's imperative -- to have people who can knock down 3s. Otherwise, active interior defenders won't give up that open 10-15-footer to the high post AND will deny driving lanes to the guards/wings.
Offensively, we need far better PG play and far better outside shooting. Lacking both, it's hard to expect too much out of Luke and Hankster against a good defensive team.
Hard to argue with much above, but beyond anything else what gets me is how porous the defense is. We get beat consistently on the dribble drive AND we don't contest the entry pass. The opposition post gets the ball 10 feet from the basket with no one guarding him and then three guys rush toward him leaving two more closer to the basket wide open along with open 3 point shooters. I know we're young, but we should be able to deny something.
As for offense, we got great looks at the three all night. We just can't make 'em. It is easy to play great interior defense when you can concede the open three with impunity.
I think we'll get better (how could we not?). The defense will improve, but if we can't shoot it any better, it won't matter.
most undisciplined team i have watched at mu. they have no clue on offense or defense about what is going on. they can't shoot. coaching staff has been very poor in my opinion....not sure how you could justify saying they have done well to this point. lost a lot of faith in the team after this one. maybe we will get better and have at least a halfway decent season, but i sure ain't getting my hopes up.
Quote from: warriorfan 14 on November 20, 2015, 07:20:50 AM
most undisciplined team i have watched at mu. they have no clue on offense or defense about what is going on. they can't shoot. coaching staff has been very poor in my opinion....not sure how you could justify saying they have done well to this point. lost a lot of faith in the team after this one. maybe we will get better and have at least a halfway decent season, but i sure ain't getting my hopes up.
Beyond recruiting, I'm not sure I have seen many -- any? -- Scoopers who have said Wojo has "done well."
What many of us are saying is that he's a young coach of a young team, we're hoping they all will improve, and it's far too early to run around screaming, "Fire him!"
What's most troubling is the defense, You have to want to play D, and this team doesn't -- it just wants to chuck up the ball. No one is a great one-and-one defender, and most are awful. The offense will get better, but if Wojo can't get them to play D it may not matter.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2015, 10:06:23 PM
This is a very very good Iowa team. Preseason rankings, mean NOTHING.
And didn't Iowa have 4 starting seniors, to boot? At NCAA time, I know it's been said on this board several times to watch out for teams with a lot of seniors. It showed last night.
Currently teams are shooting an eFG of 54.6% on us. The only other time in the KenPom era (since 2002) we were over 50% was 2004 when we were 50.3%. Our defense is awful. I don't know whose fault it is, but it can't help young players to set a defensive scheme in your game plan and then completely change it, midway during the game.
Iowa is predicted to tie for 3rd now in the Big Ten, per KenPom. Remember their Big Ten schedule sucks.
We watched two teams last night: One focused on putting in systems, schemes and figuring out their rotations. One who has that all figured out and was focusing on the match-ups and situationals.
Iowa came out and jumped right on the youngsters and raped and pillaged them. Haanif, with seven turnovers, is not the answer at starting PG. It is unfair in his development to put him in that situation. Traci obviously isn't ready either. So, you have to switch Du and Haanif and their starting roles.
The defense is on the coaches. The team is clueless out there, and a total team effort is needed. Lots of games in a row here for improvement.
Now the topic of Luke. MU's offense should all start with him, not launching threes that don't come within the flow of the offense. However, Luke takes himself out of games with more dumbass fouls more than the opponents take him out with defense. It is really maddening how stupid almost all his fouls are.
This game won't answer how good a coach Wojo is, but this next set of games will, to see how the young team responds. And I am not talking Wins or Losses here at this point, but whole team's response, including this staff's.
Haanif is clearly not a point guard. Traci is, but he's not ready. Duane should be playing 30+ at the point until someone else earns the time off him. Maybe giving him the keys will help with his confidence.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2015, 08:19:21 AM
Haanif is clearly not a point guard. Traci is, but he's not ready. Duane should be playing 30+ at the point until someone else earns the time off him. Maybe giving him the keys will help with his confidence.
Cheatham can be a change of pace PG in spots, but that's it. I'd rather have Traci play, and make his mistakes than try to shove a square peg in a round hole.
I am certainly not saying "fire Wojo," and I know he is young and learning, but the problem I see is that he has no change up. Especially on the offensive end. He seems to be basically running the same offensive motion every game for two years. On the defensive end, he switched to zone because he had to. But good teams (Iowa) can pick apart a zone if they can shoot.
Duke runs basically the same offense and it does rely on a lot of 3 point shooting. But K has got shooters galore to open things up in the middle. We don't have shooters. Yet we chuck them up constantly. Eventually you have to learn that something else is needed with this group. Maybe something as simple as a dribble drive motion offense. But that's my worry...no apparently adjustments.
Nothing Wojo has done thus far that I've seen has been Big East caliber. This team is going to get brutalized in conference play.
Perhaps Buzz was right in his assessment of the direction of the Big East. I couldn't help but get a little sad when watching the end of St John's come back against Rutgers. It was just a few years ago that Rutgers was a perennial door mat in the real Big East and now they're looked at as a resume boosting opponent from the B1G for a team from our conference.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on November 20, 2015, 08:32:52 AM
I am certainly not saying "fire Wojo," and I know he is young and learning, but the problem I see is that he has no change up. Especially on the offensive end. He seems to be basically running the same offensive motion every game for two years. On the defensive end, he switched to zone because he had to. But good teams (Iowa) can pick apart a zone if they can shoot.
Duke runs basically the same offense and it does rely on a lot of 3 point shooting. But K has got shooters galore to open things up in the middle. We don't have shooters. Yet we chuck them up constantly. Eventually you have to learn that something else is needed with this group. Maybe something as simple as a dribble drive motion offense. But that's my worry...no apparently adjustments.
Agreed completely. I loved the move to zone last year, but that's the only coaching move of his I can say that about. It's not that I don't think he can be a good coach, just that thus far, he hasn't been.
The main thought that I had throughout the game was that our team looked like they had never practiced together. There was no cohesion on defense or offense. Communication seemed to be virtually non-existent.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on November 20, 2015, 08:47:07 AM
Nothing Wojo has done thus far that I've seen has been Big East caliber. This team is going to get brutalized in conference play.
Perhaps Buzz was right in his assessment of the direction of the Big East. I couldn't help but get a little sad when watching the end of St John's come back against Rutgers. It was just a few years ago that Rutgers was a perennial door mat in the real Big East and now they're looked at as a resume boosting opponent from the B1G for a team from our conference.
For the record SJU wasn't much better those few years ago. I mean they lost to Rutgers in 2012 and 2010 and barely beat them their good year in 2011.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on November 20, 2015, 01:32:00 AM
This team's motto should be "Turning sure wins into nail biters, toss up games into losses, and legitimate opponents into blow out losses."
+1
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 19, 2015, 11:52:14 PM
Iowa is going to do quite well in a very very very tough Big Ten this year.
What's going to be very, very, very tough about the Big 14 this year? The almost always crappy (Penn State, Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern) are crappy. So is Minnesota. So is Illinois. Of the 3 perennial powers, Michigan State is down slightly and Ohio State and Wisconsin are down big. Purdue, Iowa and Michigan are TBD. Maryland and Indiana are good. But given the significant fall off at OSU and UW I think the conference is down a bit.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 20, 2015, 09:41:48 AM
What's going to be very, very, very tough about the Big 14 this year? The almost always crappy (Penn State, Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern) are crappy. So is Minnesota. So is Illinois. Of the 3 perennial powers, Michigan State is down slightly and Ohio State and Wisconsin are down big. Purdue, Iowa and Michigan are TBD. Maryland and Indiana are good. But given the significant fall off at OSU and UW I think the conference is down a bit.
I would not consider MSU as down, Lenny. Down for them maybe is just the Sweet 16.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 20, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
I would not consider MSU as down, Lenny. Down for them maybe is just the Sweet 16.
I think people get caught up in the name programs being down and feel that means the whole conference will be down.
MSU and Maryland are loaded
Purdue, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan should all be good to very good
Ohio State and Wisconsin will be down from last year, but no one is going to want to play them
Northwestern had a big injury, so we'll see where they go.
It would be surprising if they don't end up one of the top 3 conferences in the country again this year.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on November 20, 2015, 10:10:22 AM
I think people get caught up in the name programs being down and feel that means the whole conference will be down.
MSU and Maryland are loaded
Purdue, Indiana, Iowa, Michigan should all be good to very good
Ohio State and Wisconsin will be down from last year, but no one is going to want to play them
Northwestern had a big injury, so we'll see where they go.
It would be surprising if they don't end up one of the top 3 conferences in the country again this year.
I agree with this. In the NBE's first year GTown and us were both down and that didn't mean the NBE was a flop without two of it's top programs.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 20, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
I would not consider MSU as down, Lenny. Down for them maybe is just the Sweet 16.
There not "down" like Wisconsin and Ohio State, but. I think they're down (as I said) slightly.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on November 20, 2015, 09:41:48 AM
What's going to be very, very, very tough about the Big 14 this year? The almost always crappy (Penn State, Rutgers, Nebraska, Northwestern) are crappy. So is Minnesota. So is Illinois. Of the 3 perennial powers, Michigan State is down slightly and Ohio State and Wisconsin are down big. Purdue, Iowa and Michigan are TBD. Maryland and Indiana are good. But given the significant fall off at OSU and UW I think the conference is down a bit.
Rutgers and Nebraska suck.
Penn State and Northwestern are top 100 teams, top 125 at worst.
Minnesota and Illinois are top 75 teams.
Ohio State and Wisconsin are top 50 teams.
Iowa and Michigan are top 40 teams
Purdue, Michigan State, and Indiana are top 20 teams.
Maryland is a top 10 team.
The B1G is really deep. They just lack a truly elite team. Though I think every conference does this year.
I know we are young, but we have had the same problems in each of the three games we played this year. I know this is a new team, but the problems we have seen in these three games have dogged our teams for a few years. We do not have a competent playmaking point. We have no credible three point shooter (yes I know we had Carlino last year--imagine the disaster if we didn't). We used to criticize TTT for his "dribble around the perimeter and jack something up" offense. That looks inspired compared to what has been on display this year. I can't comment on the defense. There appears to be no communication. No one seems to know when they are supposed to switch or where they have to rotate. They are often not just a step behind, but completely clueless. Man is just awful but from what I saw last night Iowa ripped up the zone that at least seemed to at least slow down UIPUI.
I'm not heading for the cliffs yet, but I am frustrated, and ranting, and tired of hearing excuses for a continuing problem.
Here's the scary thing IMO. Last year's team was limited but at least Buzz's guys Wojo inherited played hard. In that dreadful season last year nobody could say that Derrick, Juan or Steve weren't giving their maximum effort. I don't see the fire in this team at all.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on November 20, 2015, 11:11:51 AM
Here's the scary thing IMO. Last year's team was limited but at least Buzz's guys Wojo inherited played hard. In that dreadful season last year nobody could say that Derrick, Juan or Steve weren't giving their maximum effort. I don't see the fire in this team at all.
Yep. And you can't play defense without fire. This team is just going through the motions on D.
Quote from: willie warrior on November 20, 2015, 09:47:42 AM
I would not consider MSU as down, Lenny. Down for them maybe is just the Sweet 16.
Northwestern is pretty good this year. The Vic Law injury hurts but I would kill for a point guard like Bryant McIntosh right now.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on November 20, 2015, 11:11:51 AM
Here's the scary thing IMO. Last year's team was limited but at least Buzz's guys Wojo inherited played hard. In that dreadful season last year nobody could say that Derrick, Juan or Steve weren't giving their maximum effort. I don't see the fire in this team at all.
Quote from: ecompt on November 20, 2015, 11:19:23 AM
Yep. And you can't play defense without fire. This team is just going through the motions on D.
Yes! It's all about da fire and da passion! ::)
MU's early season struggles have nothing to do with effort or "fire." The players are playing hard but they're lost, especially defensively. When you're lost, you spend too much time thinking. When you're spending too much time thinking, you hesitate. When you're hesitating, you're done.
My primary concern with this team is that, despite the roster turnover, last year's problems remain. Poor rotations on D, relying on 3s, tentative play, lack of boxing out, poor passing out of double teams, silly fouls, etc. To me, that's on the coaches.
Another thing that stands out to me is that MU doesn't currently have a strength. There's not that one thing that, if all else is going wrong, you know you can depend on - whether that's tough D or rebounding or getting to the line or sharing the ball or 500% effort, or whatever it may be. There's no aspect of the game upon which MU can currently hang their hat.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 20, 2015, 12:06:40 PM
Yes! It's all about da fire and da passion! ::)
MU's early season struggles have nothing to do with effort or "fire." The players are playing hard but they're lost, especially defensively. When you're lost, you spend too much time thinking. When you're spending too much time thinking, you hesitate. When you're hesitating, you're done.
My primary concern with this team is that, despite the roster turnover, last year's problems remain. Poor rotations on D, relying on 3s, tentative play, lack of boxing out, poor passing out of double teams, silly fouls, etc. To me, that's on the coaches.
Another thing that stands out to me is that MU doesn't currently have a strength. There's not that one thing that, if all else is going wrong, you know you can depend on - whether that's tough D or rebounding or getting to the line or sharing the ball or 500% effort, or whatever it may be. There's no aspect of the game upon which MU can currently hang their hat.
Wrong MM. FIRE! PASSION! HEART!
I have no words. All this talent and a Coach K mentored head coach should be a winning combination. It seems to me once they put on that Marquette uniform they forget how to play basketball.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on November 20, 2015, 12:06:40 PM
Yes! It's all about da fire and da passion! ::)
MU's early season struggles have nothing to do with effort or "fire." The players are playing hard but they're lost, especially defensively. When you're lost, you spend too much time thinking. When you're spending too much time thinking, you hesitate. When you're hesitating, you're done.
My primary concern with this team is that, despite the roster turnover, last year's problems remain. Poor rotations on D, relying on 3s, tentative play, lack of boxing out, poor passing out of double teams, silly fouls, etc. To me, that's on the coaches.
Another thing that stands out to me is that MU doesn't currently have a strength. There's not that one thing that, if all else is going wrong, you know you can depend on - whether that's tough D or rebounding or getting to the line or sharing the ball or 500% effort, or whatever it may be. There's no aspect of the game upon which MU can currently hang their hat.
If you think that the effort level is on par with the recent MU players (Butler, Lazar, Jae and DJO) then we're watching different games.
I've never been shy about my distaste for Wojo from day one. I think he's in over his head and it shows during games. I find it more concerning that a top 10 recruiting class looks to be completely lacking basic basketball IQ considering many on this board were so sure we'd now have a coach who valued basketball players over athletes.
I can rip Wojo to shreds about his coaching, but giving max effort to a certain extent is on the players. A sense of personal pride so to speak. Unless collectively the group doesn't have faith in their leader the effort level lies squarely on the players. So far it's been lacking.
Literally just had a hawk run into my patio window. Bastard is rubbing it in.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 20, 2015, 08:19:21 AM
Haanif is clearly not a point guard. Traci is, but he's not ready. Duane should be playing 30+ at the point until someone else earns the time off him. Maybe giving him the keys will help with his confidence.
True do not like Haanif at point, but bringing Wilson to point will screw his production he is better offensively off the ball
Who on our staff game planned for Iowa? We can't even be competitive with the talent we have? Uwm went for six minutes tonite w/o a point against GT but still only lost by ten. We have no seniors,no leaders and no plan.
Quote from: News: Ellenson dreams & commits to MU on November 20, 2015, 07:11:46 PM
True do not like Haanif at point, but bringing Wilson to point will screw his production he is better offensively off the ball
I have hope for Traci at the point, but right now, neither him nor Haanif are close to ready. The only player we have who can actually play the position at a high-major, competitive level is Duane Wilson. At this level, the most important position on the court is point guard. I would rather put Duane at the point and sacrifice his offensive production because I am confident that the dropoff between him and the freshmen at the point is far less significant than the dropoff between him and anyone else we would run out at the 2.
Quote from: brewcity77 on November 21, 2015, 02:39:59 PM
I have hope for Traci at the point, but right now, neither him nor Haanif are close to ready. The only player we have who can actually play the position at a high-major, competitive level is Duane Wilson. At this level, the most important position on the court is point guard. I would rather put Duane at the point and sacrifice his offensive production because I am confident that the dropoff between him and the freshmen at the point is far less significant than the dropoff between him and anyone else we would run out at the 2.
I agree we should move Duane to the point. He has the ability to play the postion at the high major level and We have lots of people who can actually do a nice job at the 2 guard.