PaintTouches retweeted a scouting report about Marquette/Wojo among latest schools to express interest in Brandon Brown. JUCO PG at Phoenix College in AZ. Averaged 20+ points and 6+ assists per game in 2013-2014. Named NJCCA All-American, Freshman of the Year in his conference, and sounds like he just missed out on POY honor in his conference too.
https://twitter.com/JucoRecruiting/status/562460375493246977
Brown, however, did get into some serious trouble when we was a sophomore is high school, but by this account he is working extremely hard to get himself back on track. I'm all for second chances and it sounds like he has gone about it the right way, learning from his foolish mistake. Wish the young man nothing but the best as he works hard to take advantage of his second chance after an absolutely foolish mistake at a very young age. I for one, would love to see him follow through on his hard work in Blue & Gold the next few years!
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/
Would be an interesting signing considering some of the recent issues regarding JUCOs. Then again, he did his penance.
Looks perfect for Marquette and for what they need.
Yes please. Sorry if I missed it but what year would he be?
He will be 24 years old by next year. Def a veteran at the postion for such a young team. Would be a weird situation but I'd love it.
My understanding is he would be a Junior with 2 years of eligibility. I'd take this guy in a heartbeat.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 03, 2015, 02:21:58 PM
Would be an interesting signing considering some of the recent issues regarding JUCOs. Then again, he did his penance.
Crowder, DJO, Butler, Buycks...who am I missing that caused an issue? Or did you mean JUCOs more generally?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 03, 2015, 02:21:58 PM
Would be an interesting signing considering some of the recent issues regarding JUCOs. Then again, he did his penance.
Which recent issues are those?
Definitely a red flag to have a kid come in after an armed robbery conviction. I can understand why people would be hesitant. But, he has done his time. If Wojo meets with the kid and gives him the thumbs up, that will be enough for me until proven otherwise.
He could definitely fill a huge hole that we have for next season.
Brandon's lapse in judgment is approaching 8 years ago. Assuming he's lived the straight and narrow since then (and there's nothing to say he hasn't), I think he'd be a fine addition to the program.
Quote from: jakeec on February 03, 2015, 02:45:23 PM
Looks perfect for Marquette and for what they need.
Me thinks your comment is not necessarily meant in the sincerest way there Vadger boy.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 03, 2015, 03:31:26 PM
Which recent issues are those?
I'm only aware of one issue and that was an issue with certain kinds of juco credits not being valid for transfer into Marquette. I believe that only happened with one player.
That was poorly worded on my part. Re-do!
Would be an interesting signing considering some of the recent issues some MU fans seem to have with regarding JUCOs. Then again, he did his penance.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 03, 2015, 03:34:20 PM
Definitely a red flag to have a kid come in after an armed robbery conviction. I can understand why people would be hesitant. But, he has done his time. If Wojo meets with the kid and gives him the thumbs up, that will be enough for me until proven otherwise.
He could definitely fill a huge hole that we have for next season.
Based of the article with everyone associated with him speaking highly of him and the fact that it would be 8 years when he steps on a campus next year. I hope that people look at it objectively and see he made a mistake as a kid but has become a good person with age.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 03, 2015, 03:42:31 PM
That was poorly worded on my part. Re-do!
Would be an interesting signing considering some of the recent issues some MU fans seem to have with regarding JUCOs. Then again, he did his penance.
+1 on the re-do.
Quote from: jsglow on February 03, 2015, 03:34:51 PM
Brandon's lapse in judgment is approaching 8 years ago. Assuming he's lived the straight and narrow since then (and there's nothing to say he hasn't), I think he'd be a fine addition to the program.
That's quite a lapse in judgement. Armed robbery? Wow. Getting caught smoking a joint is a lapse in judgment...armed robbery is a whole different thang.
Quote from: Groin_pull on February 03, 2015, 03:56:44 PM
That's quite a lapse in judgement. Armed robbery? Wow. Getting caught smoking a joint is a lapse in judgment...armed robbery is a whole different thang.
Agree. Calling it a lapse in judgement is minimizing the severity of the situation he put himself in. However, a lot of these kids grow up facing challenges that we couldn't even imagine and these things are far more common then we wish to realize. He WAS very young and if he has been a model citizen in the 8 years since his arrest, he deserves a second chance. I would have no issue if that second chance were at Marquette.
Quote from: Groin_pull on February 03, 2015, 03:56:44 PM
That's quite a lapse in judgement. Armed robbery? Wow. Getting caught smoking a joint is a lapse in judgment...armed robbery is a whole different thang.
Donald Driver dealt drugs and stole cars. If fans in this state can cheer for him, why not Brown?
Quote from: MUEagle1090 on February 03, 2015, 04:02:09 PM
Agree. Calling it a lapse in judgement is minimizing the severity of the situation he put himself in. However, a lot of these kids grow up facing challenges that we couldn't even imagine and these things are far more common then we wish to realize. He WAS very young and if he has been a model citizen in the 8 years since his arrest, he deserves a second chance. I would have no issue if that second chance were at Marquette.
+1
How easy are JUCOs? I feel like a 3.7 GPA is pretty impressive. Personal issues aside, if those credits are able to rollover to MU that would be huge and I think the administration would allow it.
Quote from: swoopem on February 03, 2015, 04:45:27 PM
How easy are JUCOs? I feel like a 3.7 GPA is pretty impressive. Personal issues aside, if those credits are able to rollover to MU that would be huge and I think the administration would allow it.
A 3.7 is always pretty darn impressive no matter what. At the very least it shows the drive and effort is clearly there. Even if the classes are "easier" he is clearly getting the work done and doing it with effort.
Isn't their a better option then a kid who served 2.5 years in prison for armed robbery?
I didn't mean to minimize the seriousness of the offense. No doubt armed robbery is worthy of the punishment he received and represents a huge red flag. I would proceed cautiously and I would want to be 100% certain that Brandon is a completely changed man. I'm assuming that he fully understands that this will follow him forever. That said, if he truly is a reformed model citizen, he deserves a second chance.
I like the Donald Driver reference. He has things in his past that he's not proud of. But I think we can all agree that we'd be honored to have him as a friend or neighbor today.
He's done his time. He has by all signs committed to being a good person, a good citizen. I will grant you that it is far more likely that this would be a Buzz signing, but if this is the JUCO PG Wojo wants, I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.
maybe we can get a couple manslaughter parolees for the 5 spot next year.
I know we've fallen but are we this desperate?
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2015, 06:15:11 PM
maybe we can get a couple manslaughter parolees for the 5 spot next year.
I know we've fallen but are we this desperate?
Idiots like you don't even deserve to allowed break time for computer usage
(http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/Boy-That-Escalated-Quickly-Anchorman.gif)
Quote from: swoopem on February 03, 2015, 04:45:27 PM
How easy are JUCOs? I feel like a 3.7 GPA is pretty impressive. Personal issues aside, if those credits are able to rollover to MU that would be huge and I think the administration would allow it.
This is the essence of the Juco issue at Marquette. Many Jucos major in Phy Ed. Marquette doesn't have a Phy Ed major. So those credits transfer, but they don't count toward anything other than electives. So you had a kid that did 60 credits of work, but maybe when all is said and done, 30 credits transfer which makes it nearly impossible to finish their degree in two years.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on February 03, 2015, 05:06:47 PM
Isn't their a better option then a kid who served 2.5 years in prison for armed robbery?
So you would eliminate him from consideration based on this fact alone?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 03, 2015, 04:02:51 PM
Donald Driver dealt drugs and stole cars. If fans in this state can cheer for him, why not Brown?
Because he'd be going to Marquette, not UW-Madison.
I doubt he comes to MU simply because not many Cali-Zona players (Juan excepted) come to MU. However, as a philosophical exercise and an insight into Wojo (and the current MU administration), it will be interesting to see if he receives an actual offer, regardless of whether he accepts it.
So many of these opinions are so stereotypical or marquette being full of sheltered judgemental people and its pathetic. Some of my best friends in boxing have done time for various things and all are trying to better themselves and stay out of trouble (except one idiot) but the original point of jail is rehabilitation and it seems by all accounts he was a stupid kid who deserves his shot to prove he's changed.
If we'd all known that Jimmy butler had been homeless for awhile before he came to MU would we have been this judgemental over him?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 03, 2015, 06:31:02 PM
This is the essence of the Juco issue at Marquette. Many Jucos major in Phy Ed. Marquette doesn't have a Phy Ed major. So those credits transfer, but they don't count toward anything other than electives. So you had a kid that did 60 credits of work, but maybe when all is said and done, 30 credits transfer which makes it nearly impossible to finish their degree in two years.
Exactly, that's why I'm saying if his credits transfer then I'm all for it. A Junior point guard is exactly what next years team needs.
I'm not worried about his past. Once upon a time MU allowed me a second chance, and I'm forever thankful that they did.
Quote from: jesmu84 on February 03, 2015, 06:49:44 PM
Because he'd be going to Marquette, not UW-Madison.
I think DD would be a fine ambassador for any university or an outstanding spokesman for any charity.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2015, 06:15:11 PM
maybe we can get a couple manslaughter parolees for the 5 spot next year.
I know we've fallen but are we this desperate?
Cura Personalis is hereby suspended in this case.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 03, 2015, 06:58:03 PM
So many of these opinions are so stereotypical or marquette being full of sheltered judgemental people and its pathetic. Some of my best friends in boxing have done time for various things and all are trying to better themselves and stay out of trouble (except one idiot) but the original point of jail is rehabilitation and it seems by all accounts he was a stupid kid who deserves his shot to prove he's changed.
If we'd all known that Jimmy butler had been homeless for awhile before he came to MU would we have been this judgemental over him?
"Being" homeless and "committing" armed robbery are not remotely the same thing.
I agree with your first paragraph though.
He made a very big mistake. He paid for it. It sounds like he learned from it.
Many from similar backgrounds have had similar issues. He can use his experience to hopefully help a lot of kids avoid the mistakes he made.
If Wojo has met him and feels he has put his past behind him, I am all for giving him a chance at MU and a chance to use that opportunity to continue to improve himself, but also work as a liaison to kids in difficult situations to help them avoid similar mistakes.
Armed robbery to full ride?
I hope he is good then.
If this was buzz people would go nuts...over just the fact he's a juco.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2015, 07:56:58 PM
If this was buzz people would go nuts...over just the fact he's a juco.
That is why I am half rooting for Wojo to offer this guy.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2015, 07:56:58 PM
Armed robbery to full ride?
I hope he is good then.
If this was buzz people would go nuts...over just the fact he's a juco.
Armed robbery when he was 15. Lock him up for life.
Would the good Jesuit fathers give him a 2nd chance?
Have him sit down with Father Kelly. Let him have some input.
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2015, 06:50:05 PM
I doubt he comes to MU simply because not many Cali-Zona players (Juan excepted) come to MU. However, as a philosophical exercise and an insight into Wojo (and the current MU administration), it will be interesting to see if he receives an actual offer, regardless of whether he accepts it.
What the F are you talking bout?
Terry Reason baby, Terry Frickin Reason!
Oakland, CA. 360* dunks!
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 03, 2015, 08:08:19 PM
What the F are you talking bout?
Terry Reason baby, Terry Frickin Reason!
Oakland, CA. 360* dunks!
And Mike Davis, baby! But that is 30 years ago.
Christ all-mighty. The staff is evaluating numerous players right now for guard spots. They are looking at high school, prep school and JUCO kids right now and are in full evaluation mode to find the best possible players for MU and it's the same old crap storm on this board. We've seen 3 new names on Twitter in the last 24 hours in Brown, Trent and Ervin and I can guarantee another name will pop up in the next week.
THEY ARE RECRUITING PEOPLE AND IN RECRUITING YOU LOOK INTO EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE IF YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB!
Quote from: TedBaxter on February 03, 2015, 08:28:40 PM
Christ all-mighty. The staff is evaluating numerous players right now for guard spots. They are looking at high school, prep school and JUCO kids right now and are in full evaluation mode to find the best possible players for MU and it's the same old crap storm on this board. We've seen 3 new names on Twitter in the last 24 hours in Brown, Trent and Ervin and I can guarantee another name will pop up in the next week.
THEY ARE RECRUITING PEOPLE AND IN RECRUITING YOU LOOK INTO EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE IF YOU ARE DOING YOUR JOB!
I don't think I've ever heard you yell before Ted.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on February 03, 2015, 05:06:47 PM
Isn't their a better option then a kid who served 2.5 years in prison for armed robbery?
I think he should be punished the rest of his life for committing an act as a teenager.
Quote from: We R Final Four on February 03, 2015, 08:08:19 PM
What the F are you talking bout?
Terry Reason baby, Terry Frickin Reason!
Oakland, CA. 360* dunks!
And the 'do
Quote from: tower912 on February 03, 2015, 07:58:38 PM
That is why I am half rooting for Wojo to offer this guy.
I have no problem with JUCO's. Bring in as many Crowders, Butlers, Buycks, DJOs, Fulces as you want, but no thanks to Brandon Brown.
I'm glad he appears to be on the right track, but armed robbery does not equal full ride at my school. This one is on par with Monterale Clark. PASS.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 03, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
So you would eliminate him from consideration based on this fact alone?
I don't think that would be all that unreasonable.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:01:30 PM
This one is on par with Monterale Clark. PASS.
A 15 year old committing a crime followed by eight years of serving his time, being remorseful, taking school seriously, and working to show he's changed his life ≠ A verbally committed recruit being convicted of rape and being hauled off to prison at the time he would have set foot on campus.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:01:30 PM
I have no problem with JUCO's. Bring in as many Crowders, Butlers, Buycks, DJOs, Fulces as you want, but no thanks to Brandon Brown.
I'm glad he appears to be on the right track, but armed robbery does not equal full ride at my school. This one is on par with Monterale Clark. PASS.
There's a difference between raping a woman when you're 20 and doing something insanely stupid when you're 15. No excuses for the action, but when you're 15 you deserve a second chance. My guess is he didn't act alone and probably was following the lead of someone, anyways. Not that it makes any difference. But you can't just lock a kid up for an armed robbery that occurred when he was 15. He paid his price and has turned his life around.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 03, 2015, 06:58:03 PM
So many of these opinions are so stereotypical or marquette being full of sheltered judgemental people and its pathetic. Some of my best friends in boxing have done time for various things and all are trying to better themselves and stay out of trouble (except one idiot) but the original point of jail is rehabilitation and it seems by all accounts he was a stupid kid who deserves his shot to prove he's changed.
If we'd all known that Jimmy butler had been homeless for awhile before he came to MU would we have been this judgemental over him?
LOL. You are equating homelessness with armed robbery? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on Scoop! And that is saying something.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
LOL. You are equating homelessness with armed robbery? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on Scoop! And that is saying something.
Says the guy who just compared a 20 year old raping a woman to a 15 year old armed robbery. Both are pretty horrible comparisons.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2015, 10:14:55 PM
There's a difference between raping a woman when you're 20 and doing something insanely stupid when you're 15. No excuses for the action, but when you're 15 you deserve a second chance. My guess is he didn't act alone and probably was following the lead of someone, anyways. Not that it makes any difference. But you can't just lock a kid up for an armed robbery that occurred when he was 15. He paid his price and has turned his life around.
Who said lock him up for life? I hope he puts himself through school, gets a good paying job, and doesn't commit any more felonies.
But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2015, 10:17:31 PM
Says the guy who just compared a 20 year old raping a woman to a 15 year old armed robbery. Both are pretty horrible comparisons.
I didn't compare the offenses, I compared the decision MU has to make. In both cases you wish the kid well, and offer the scholarship to a kid who makes better decisions.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:24:24 PM
Who said lock him up for life? I hope he puts himself through school, gets a good paying job, and doesn't commit any more felonies.
But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
Right, he got his second chance when he was let "out of prison." And right, a full scholarship is a privilege that is earned. He has earned it by learning his lesson, serving his punishment, turning his life around, and becoming a division 1 basketball prospect. A job is also a privilege that is earned. If we're going to say that someone who made a horrible decision when he was 15 will never again be deserving of a privilege like a full scholarship then why should he ever be deserving of a job?
Quote from: chapman on February 03, 2015, 10:13:05 PM
A 15 year old committing a crime followed by eight years of serving his time, being remorseful, taking school seriously, and working to show he's changed his life ≠ A verbally committed recruit being convicted of rape and being hauled off to prison at the time he would have set foot on campus.
Armed robbery is no joke. Some here feel it is nothing more than a brief lapse in judgement by a teenager.
Clearly I should not have brought up Monterale Clark, I did not mean to equate armed robbery with rape.
All I meant to say is Brown hasn't earned a scholarship.
Again, I am glad he has things going in the right direction.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2015, 10:50:05 PM
Right, he got his second chance when he was let "out of prison" (I would guarantee he's never been to prison given that he was 15 years old). And right, a full scholarship is a privilege that is earned. He has earned it by learning his lesson, serving his punishment, turning his life around, and becoming a division 1 basketball prospect. A job is also a privilege that is earned. If we're going to say that someone who made a horrible decision when he was 15 will never again be deserving of a privilege like a full scholarship then why should he ever be deserving of a job?
HUH?
I was confused by your first sentence. Your second sentence is true. The third makes sense, although I disagree. Your fourth is also true. The last sentence is downright baffling.
I know you are looking for a fight, but I'm done here.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:57:22 PM
HUH?
I was confused by your first sentence. Your second sentence is true. The third makes sense, although I disagree. I also agree with your fourth sentence. The last sentence is downright baffling?
I know you are looking for a fight, but I'm done here.
First sentence was edited, didn't see he was tried as an adult. Not looking for a fight at all, a job is a privilege. You have to earn a job. If the kid can't work his way back into good graces enough to receive a scholarship for his hard work then why should he be privileged with a job?
Quote from: MU_MM08 on February 03, 2015, 02:14:55 PM
I'm all for second chances and it sounds like he has gone about it the right way, learning from his foolish mistake. Wish the young man nothing but the best as he works hard to take advantage of his second chance after an absolutely foolish mistake at a very young age. I for one, would love to see him follow through on his hard work in Blue & Gold the next few years!
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/
You can stop with the branding of what he did as a "foolish mistake" more than once. Let's call it what it was - armed robbery at gunpoint and serious criminal behavior. Our society is way to quick to excuse and attach these idiotic euphemisms to such behavior, thus watering down the act and making it almost accepted behavior, i.e, "well gee, it was just a foolish mistake he/she made".
NO THANK YOU. Let someone else give this guy a second chance, if he's truly changed his ways, which is highly debatable.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 03, 2015, 11:06:23 PM
You can stop with the branding of what he did as a "foolish mistake" more than once. Let's call it what it was - armed robbery at gunpoint and serious criminal behavior. Our society is way to quick to excuse and attach these idiotic euphemisms to such behavior, thus watering down the act and making it almost accepted behavior, i.e, "well gee, it was just a foolish mistake he/she made".
NO THANK YOU. Let someone else give this guy a second chance, if he's truly changed his ways, which is highly debatable.
Except that it's not debatable.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:24:24 PMBut, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
Okay, so if he's truly learned from his crime, served his penance, not re-offended, and is a model student, teammate, and worthy player, shouldn't he be able to earn a scholarship to Marquette? The decision lies with the coaching staff, but I don't think someone should be forever punished for their actions as a teenager.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2015, 06:29:38 AM
Except that it's not debatable.
It's probably debatable, but not by us. It's the coaching staff and administrations job to debate it and if they feel he's on the right path, and wish to help him further along that path, it should be good enough for us.
What gets at me is the "i'm glad he's turned his life around, let someone else continue to help him" attitude. Seems very contradictory to the values (non religious) I was taught at Marquette. I'd rather be the institution that, assuming that after having the aforementioned debate it's concluded he's on the right path, helps him.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 03, 2015, 11:06:23 PM
You can stop with the branding of what he did as a "foolish mistake" more than once. Let's call it what it was - armed robbery at gunpoint and serious criminal behavior. Our society is way to quick to excuse and attach these idiotic euphemisms to such behavior, thus watering down the act and making it almost accepted behavior, i.e, "well gee, it was just a foolish mistake he/she made".
NO THANK YOU. Let someone else give this guy a second chance, if he's truly changed his ways, which is highly debatable.
As a Christian university, Marquette is actually the perfect place for someone to redeem themselves after serving their time, showing remorse, and building a new life for themselves. What do you think the current Pope would say about him?
And I feel this way about all similar students. Not just basketball players. We can debate all we want about if it is appropriate to have 15 year olds treated as adults and put into prison. However life is about forgiveness and starting over. If the kid is truly remorseful, our job isn't to continue to push him back down, but to help him up.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 04, 2015, 07:35:13 AM
As a Christian university, Marquette is actually the perfect place for someone to redeem themselves after serving their time, showing remorse, and building a new life for themselves. What do you think the current Pope would say about him?
And I feel this way about all similar students. Not just basketball players. We can debate all we want about if it is appropriate to have 15 year olds treated as adults and put into prison. However life is about forgiveness and starting over. If the kid is truly remorseful, our job isn't to continue to push him back down, but to help him up.
Let someone else do it. We don't have to be the Oakland Raiders under Al Davis of college basketball. Plenty of proven high character kids out there who can play at a very high level. Buzz did enough bringing in kids with highly questionable characters. Enough of that already.
This just in by Papal Decree: Pope Francis has ex-communicated St. Paul!
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 07:38:16 AM
Let someone else do it. We don't have to be the Oakland Raiders under Al Davis of college basketball. Plenty of proven high character kids out there who can play at a very high level. Buzz did enough bringing in kids with highly questionable characters. Enough of that already.
Real Christian attitude you have there. Assuming you have a Marquette degree, you didn't listen very well.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on February 04, 2015, 07:40:42 AM
This just in by Papal Decree: Pope Francis has ex-communicated St. Paul!
I laughed
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 04, 2015, 07:43:55 AM
Real Christian attitude you have there. Assuming you have a Marquette degree, you didn't listen very well.
Mr. Holier than Thou - You know, I expressed my opinion. You don't know me, and what I do except for being a rabid MU fan. So don't judge me and put yourself on this pedastal. I'll stop there -because I may not stop otherwise.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:16:20 PM
LOL. You are equating homelessness with armed robbery? That might be the dumbest thing I've ever read on Scoop! And that is saying something.
Wasn't comparing it was attempting to point out that you all sound like a bunch of wealthy sheltered suburbanites who excel at judging people who didn't come up the regular path in life and probably would have been all upset at us offering a homeless kid to despite his character.
The thing that I can't believe here is how quick you guys are judging a 24 year old for his 15yr old mistake. I have to assume you guys were all model kids at 15 (and beyond) and never caused any trouble whatsoever that you could be judged for. Sure his teenage stupiditywas a more serious offense, well he also probably didn't grow up where it's uncommon or viewed very serious. I just can't believe that you guys think who you are when you're 15 should define you for life.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:24:24 PM
But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
94Warrior, you summed up my position perfectly. Well stated.
But you better watch what you say, because Mr. 16,000 some odd posts and several others here who are the absolute models of Christian behavior, will tell you what a rotten human being you are.
Next man up. Actions have consequences, aina?
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 07:38:16 AM
Let someone else do it. We don't have to be the Oakland Raiders under Al Davis of college basketball. Plenty of proven high character kids out there who can play at a very high level. Buzz did enough bringing in kids with highly questionable characters. Enough of that already.
Let someone else believe in forgiveness. Let someone else believe in redemption. Enough of that already. We're better than that! "Just judge, baby".
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 04, 2015, 07:35:13 AM
As a Christian university, Marquette is actually the perfect place for someone to redeem themselves after serving their time, showing remorse, and building a new life for themselves. What do you think the current Pope would say about him?
And I feel this way about all similar students. Not just basketball players. We can debate all we want about if it is appropriate to have 15 year olds treated as adults and put into prison. However life is about forgiveness and starting over. If the kid is truly remorseful, our job isn't to continue to push him back down, but to help him up.
Sunshine boy----------->gets it.
Jesuit mantra---------->who am I to judge.
Quote from: WarriorPride68 on February 03, 2015, 05:06:47 PM
Isn't their a better option then a kid who served 2.5 years in prison for armed robbery?
Yes he served his time. Key word is he served.
Does he fill a need? YES
Can he play ball? YES
Is he in good academic standing to get in? YES
94, Hutch, etc.
Did you learn any Jesuit thinking at MU?
Wojo, his staff, The AD, Pres. Lovell, a Jesuit or two....will know more about this situation than you will. If they agree the kid should have a 2nd chance he should get it. That is a broad enough cast to ensure it will be a proper choice.
Stop yipping from the peanut gallery.
Because all of you so self righteous are so positive he's forever turned a new leaf, and will do nothing to embarrass the university or men's basketball program?
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:33:57 AM
Because all of you so self righteous are so positive he's forever turned a new leaf, and will do nothing to embarrass the university or men's basketball program?
Couldn't you ask this about any recruit? How do you know that none of them will do something to embarrass the university and the men's basketball program?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2015, 08:36:57 AM
Couldn't you ask this about any recruit? How do you know that none of them will do something to embarrass the university and the men's basketball program?
Well, the small difference is guys like Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Nick, haven't been convicted of armed robbery at gunpoint, have they? I'd say odds are much higher those guys won't do anything to embarrass the university. No, it's not an iron clad guarantee, nothing is, but their history suggests highly unlikely, while this guy's history says definitely possible because NO ONE except Brown himself knows if he's truly been reformed.
For me the passage of time (8 years) with what is seemingly an exemplary record since his crime says a great deal.
Here's what I will say, Wojo will be taking a chance if he offers Brandon and he accepts. That can break at least a couple of ways. In one direction is further redemption assuming a 24 year old man becomes a role model on the court and in the classroom. If it were to break completely differently, it would cost Wojo, and probably others, their jobs. I'll trust Wojo will be sure of his decision before it's made.
Quote from: jsglow on February 04, 2015, 08:41:16 AM
For me the passage of time (8 years) with what is seemingly an exemplary record since his crime says a great deal.
Here's what I will say, Wojo will be taking a chance if he offers Brandon and he accepts. That can break at least a couple of ways. In one direction is further redemption assuming a 24 year old man becomes a role model on the court and in the classroom. If it were to break completely differently, it would cost Wojo, and probably others, their jobs. I'll trust Wojo will be sure of his decision before it's made.
And this is all so premature... they're clearly casting a wide net while looking for a PG. Who knows if there will even be an offer at this point.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:39:22 AM
Well, the small difference is guys like Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Nick, haven't been convicted of armed robbery at gunpoint, have they? I'd say odds are much higher those guys won't do anything to embarrass the university. No, it's not an iron clad guarantee, nothing is, but their history suggests highly unlikely, while this guy's history says definitely possible because NO ONE except Brown himself knows if he's truly been reformed.
http://www.ted.com/talks/shaka_senghor_why_your_worst_deeds_don_t_define_you
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 04, 2015, 08:43:21 AM
And this is all so premature... they're clearly casting a wide net while looking for a PG. Who knows if there will even be an offer at this point.
Of course. I suppose we're on page whatever on this thread is the history associated with this potential recruit.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:33:57 AM
Because all of you so self righteous are so positive he's forever turned a new leaf, and will do nothing to embarrass the university or men's basketball program?
I'm not self righteous, nor am I "positive he will do nothing to embarrass the university" - of course, unlike you I guess, I've never been positive that any 18 year old young man at Marquette won't do something embarrassing. But he's 24, has paid a price for what he did at 15, and everything (3.7 GPA, his coach's and his teammate's words, etc.) we know about him TODAY says he's grown up and changed. You want to stand in judgment, fine. Hope Wojo and MU won't.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2015, 08:26:17 AM
Let someone else believe in forgiveness. Let someone else believe in redemption. Enough of that already. We're better than that! "Just judge, baby".
+1
This needed to be quoted so others can see this again.
About 2,000 years ago, a dude walked the face of the Earth in a place we call the Middle East. He lived in what today is Israel and spoke of loving thy fellow man, turning the other cheek and forgiveness.
His thoughts were the foundation for what today we know as Western Civilization. His belief in the inherent value of every man led to the Constitution of the United States. His beliefs also became the philosophy behind the establishment of a great university located in Milwaukee, WI that also happens to play a mean game of basketball (most of the time).
So in keeping with the philosophies of Jesus, the mission of Marquette University to spread the Word as well as the values that make us Americans, I would suggest that everyone ask the same set of questions outlined below:
1) Is he repentant?
2) Can he be admitted to Marquette and do Marquette work?
3) Does he want to attend Marquette and work toward a degree?
4) Can he help the Warrior basketball team attain the expectations Coach Wojo and most of us have for it?
5) Does he buy into the Wojo system?
If the answer is "yes," then welcome him! Cheer him on and hope he is a solution to our needs at point guard for next year and beyond!
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:33:57 AM
Because all of you so self righteous are so positive he's forever turned a new leaf, and will do nothing to embarrass the university or men's basketball program?
We can't guarantee any player won't do something wrong. People make mistakes every day. However, hes been clean for 8 years now from wrongdoing. Was it a serious one? Sure. But in my experience, if recidivism is going to happen it's going to be close in time.
Hell, after seeing him play I'm sure we'd all want Shaquille McKissick. He's a standup kid that's trying to do right. While it wasn't robbery, he did spend time in jail as well before making it to the NCAA ranks. People can change, especially when out of the environment that created those circumstances.
I don't subscribe to the Catholic mantra and didn't absorb anything of note from the Jesuit education at MU. But that doesn't matter! What matters is that this kid did something horrifically stupid as a kid and has paid his debt. Since being released, it appears that he has lived a pretty good life. I see no reason for MU to prevent him from continuing down that path in Milwaukee. Nothing to do with being a good Christian; it's just being a decent human being.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on February 04, 2015, 08:20:08 AM
Wasn't comparing it was attempting to point out that you all sound like a bunch of wealthy sheltered suburbanites who excel at judging people who didn't come up the regular path in life and probably would have been all upset at us offering a homeless kid to despite his character.
The thing that I can't believe here is how quick you guys are judging a 24 year old for his 15yr old mistake. I have to assume you guys were all model kids at 15 (and beyond) and never caused any trouble whatsoever that you could be judged for. Sure his teenage stupiditywas a more serious offense, well he also probably didn't grow up where it's uncommon or viewed very serious. I just can't believe that you guys think who you are when you're 15 should define you for life.
Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended. How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've made mistakes, that was not one of them. Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:24:24 PM
Who said lock him up for life? I hope he puts himself through school, gets a good paying job, and doesn't commit any more felonies.
But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
His "second chance" is to be treated like any other member of society. If that "second chance" means he *earns* the ability to get a division one basketball scholarship, then I am all for it.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended. How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've made mistakes, that was not one of them. Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
You're obviously entitled to your opinion, but I'm guessing that you and Brandon grew up in vastly different environments.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:17:40 AM
Mr. Holier than Thou - You know, I expressed my opinion. You don't know me, and what I do except for being a rabid MU fan. So don't judge me and put yourself on this pedastal. I'll stop there -because I may not stop otherwise.
You can say whatever the f*ck you want.
My opinion is that when you dismiss someone out of hand based on something they did 1/3 of their life ago, paid their price to society, showed no inclination of doing again and in fact is upfront, and remorseful about it, my Christian teaching leads me to believe that we should treat that person as we would any other.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
Like the white lax player from the east coast that popped acid and assaulted a female cop?
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
This type of post/opinion is why I oftentimes can't stand being part of this alumni base. Incredibly sad.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
So if he had the decency to be born to well to do parents who could afford the Marquette tuition you would be OK with him enrolling and playing basketball here. Otherwise, no.
If we THINK you're elitist? LOL.
I typically just follow the different threads and rarely do I jump into the fray but I have a few hypotheticals for those who think this guy isn't worthing of being a student-athlete at Marquette. Would your opinions change if he were not a basketball player? In other words would you be objecting so strenuously if he were a JUCO student looking to transfer in strictly as a student? What if he walked on? Also, what if one of the incoming recruits was arrested for a drug-related offense. Should they automatically be disqualified from attending Marquette let alone playing a sport? Where do you draw the line? Who makes the determination on what is or isn't "serios" enough to disqualify someone from attending?
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake
Agreed, I think everyone here realizes the seriousness of Armed Robbery. That isn't the point most people are making here.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time.
NOBODY has said this at all
One of my favorite things about sports are the redemption stories. I don't know if Brown has truly turned over a new leaf, but considering he did his time, has functioned in society without incident for two years and seems to have the support of his coach and teammates as a good citizen, student, and on-court contributor, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. When the stories of guys like Jimmy and overcoming his upbringing, Jae overcoming some shady JUCO issues, or Wes going from undrafted to contributor to starter come out, I'm proud those guys went to Marquette.
I realize Brown's situation is different. However I also believe that the greatest rewards come when you are willing to take the greatest risks. Brown has build up a modest track record over the past couple years that indicates he has indeed learned from his mistakes and is trying to make a new life for himself that doesn't involve the shady dealings of his past. If he manages to do that, I'd love to be able to say he did it at my alma mater.
There are still a lot of ifs. If Wojo offers, if Brown would accept, if he managed a successful career without incident, if he was able to use the resources Marquette could give him to make a positive contribution to both society and his own life. There are a lot of question marks. And yes, there are more question marks than there are with our other recruits. But if you want to be the difference, you have to be willing to put yourself out there and take a risk. If the staff believes in him, I hope they give him the chance. If it doesn't work out, I'd still be glad that they tried.
It is a continuation of the debate regarding Malek Harris. The difference being that BB's criminal act happened when he was younger, he was incarcerated for it, and his actions since indicate he is trying to do right. Malek was suspended, but not put in jail. And it is about forgiveness, redemption, second chances. This debate is yet another Rorschach test about who we are as individuals, where MU's basketball team is at as a team, what kind of player does Wojo want, and where the MU administration is. I don't know how this will turn out, but I find the debate fascinating and illuminating
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on February 04, 2015, 08:39:22 AM
Well, the small difference is guys like Henry, Haanif, Heldt, Nick, haven't been convicted of armed robbery at gunpoint, have they? I'd say odds are much higher those guys won't do anything to embarrass the university. No, it's not an iron clad guarantee, nothing is, but their history suggests highly unlikely, while this guy's history says definitely possible because NO ONE except Brown himself knows if he's truly been reformed.
I would suggest at this point in their lives that Brandon Brown is probably more stable in his life than Nick Noskowiak. I'm not comparing armed robbery to whatever Nick is going through but from my perspective, Nick is more of a gamble than Brandon right now.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on February 03, 2015, 06:35:40 PM
So you would eliminate him from consideration based on this fact alone?
Yes.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended. How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've made mistakes, that was not one of them. Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
Ok first let's not act like being a blue & gold fund donor makes you special or something I've technically been one since my sophomore year because I was buying those sixth man fund student tickets.
At what age do you feel that he shouldn't have this on him his whole life? At 15 you're either starting your sophomore year or ending freshman year of high school not like you can't drive yet, can't even legally drop out of high school seems like all the standards of still being a kid. If he was 14 and still in 8th grade would you forgive him? Do you have kids? Would you judge them forever based on something they did at 15? Or if you're still younger try and remember the stuff you did when you were that age. Would you want that to define you?
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended. How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've made mistakes, that was not one of them. Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.
God you are one ignorant bastard.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 03, 2015, 10:24:24 PM
Who said lock him up for life? I hope he puts himself through school, gets a good paying job, and doesn't commit any more felonies.
But, that's a long way from earning a full ride to Marquette. Getting a full ride to a great school is a privilege, not a second chance.
He got his second chance the day he was let out of prison, nobody owes him anything.
Getting a scholarship to play basketball isn't something he is "owed"
It is something he EARNED.
Starting to question your IQ at this point.
Quote from: wadesworld on February 03, 2015, 10:14:55 PM
My guess is he didn't act alone and probably was following the lead of someone, anyways.
You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article? I'd absolutely give this guy a chance. Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/
QuoteAccording to a Tempe Police report, Brown and Jerrell Carter accosted three men, robbing them at gun point. Carter pointed the gun, while Brown took their wallets and cell phones, according to the report. A loaded gun was found in the car in which they were riding, the report summarized.
...
During the long process, he was allowed to finish high school, before serving a sentence that the state recommended to be 61/2 years in the Arizona Department of Corrections.
At the presentencing hearing in January 2010, family members, teachers, his coach and pastor sent letters to the judge, asking for leniency.
"You couldn't find anybody who didn't like the kid," Cesar Chavez coach Gary Lee said. "He never had a bad referral in high school. He was like, 'I'm going to deal with this situation, and I'm going to persevere.' "
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2015, 06:03:00 PM
You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article? I'd absolutely give this guy a chance. Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/
Yeah when I made that post I was just coming to conclusions about what happened based on what was being posted in the thread. When I read the article it was clear that, while a completely horrible decision, this is a kid who was probably raised without a whole lot of structure in his life and had older influences pulling him in the wrong direction. I am very surprised that a public defender could not have him tried as a juvenile, especially considering he wasn't the one with the gun (not that it excuses him of any wrongdoing, just saying legally it's surprising they charged him as an adult). When I was right out of college I worked with kids who probably had similar backgrounds to him growing up and some of them, sadly, did much, much worse things than what Brown did. While some never were able to overcome their past, there were some (including those who have done much worse) who clearly made a horrible decision, realized it, and turned their life around. No doubt that kids like that should get a second chance, and should have the ability to earn back everything that they've worked hard to get.
Questions for the group:
1. What is the role of prison? Is it to rehabilitate or to condemn for life, regardless of the severity of the crime?
2. Do you believe in redemption and second chances? Do you believe people can and do change for the better?
I am not a Christian. I was one of the four Jews who graduated from MU in 1982, and I have been blissfully agnostic for many years. But I have studied Jesus' works and teachings and I can confidently say that if Jesus were a university president, he would gladly accept this young man.
I agree with those who disapprove of the use of "mistake" in describing what he did. I made a mistake when I overcooked my eggs this morning. Knowingly committing a crime is not a "mistake." But I disagree with those that committing a crime and serving one's time should eliminate a person from consideration for a Marquette basketball scholarship.
I believe in redemption, I believe in second chances and I believe Jesus would agree wholeheartedly with me.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 04, 2015, 06:03:00 PM
You don't have to guess...did anyone actually read the article? I'd absolutely give this guy a chance. Here's the important parts to me, but everyone should read the article.
http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/college/2015/01/14/phoenix-college-guard-takes-advantage-nd-chance/21788499/
I was going to write this yesterday but the thread had already gotten far out of control and figured it would be lost.
Also, I wouldn't have phrased it as nicely as you did since I would call out multiple members of this community for their stupidity and assholic nature for not taking the 79 seconds it took me to click the link, read the article, and realize the kid fucked up by who he associated with one night eight years ago rather then the predatory criminal so many of the self righteous high horse braggadocio brigade made him out to be.
I think this is an interesting discussion and though many would like it to be, it is not a black and white issue, as I can see both sides of the debate.
Dismissing a convicted felon out of hand is not an unreasonable position to take, both for the reputation of your program and more importantly for the safety of your student body. I know that is my immediate reaction. Better safe than sorry for your students is not a bad policy.
But in the end, every situation is different and as a Jesuit university we have the responsibility to try to do the Christian thing. If the young man wants to come to the University and is well-vetted by those charged with making the admission decision and they were completely satisfied that he has turned his life around and can succeed in the classroom and on the court without being a threat to the student body, then we should be open to accepting him and helping him on his journey to being a productive person.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on February 05, 2015, 09:38:35 AM
I was going to write this yesterday but the thread had already gotten far out of control and figured it would be lost.
Also, I wouldn't have phrased it as nicely as you did since I would call out multiple members of this community for their stupidity and assholic nature for not taking the 79 seconds it took me to click the link, read the article, and realize the kid unnatural carnal knowledgeed up by who he associated with one night eight years ago rather then the predatory criminal so many of the self righteous high horse braggadocio brigade made him out to be.
Hey, we found something we agree on! Woot woot.
Not religious in the slightest but this thread got way too out of control for me not to chime in. Wojo knows the kid better then any of us pretend to do. I'm sure he's talked to him and I'm sure Brandon has been completely open about his past with Wojo. I trust Wojo and I think way too many people are up in arms about a crime he committed 8 years ago. We don't know his personal background, we don't know what he's been through so stop pretending like you do and stop condemning the kid.
Cura Personalis.
If he's on the straight and narrow, let MU continue to be his guide.
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on February 05, 2015, 12:04:24 PM
Cura Personalis.
If he's on the straight and narrow, let MU continue to be his guide.
+1, well said.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 04, 2015, 12:39:16 PM
It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.
God you are one ignorant bastard.
You're sounding unimportant.
Quote from: 94Warrior on February 04, 2015, 09:34:22 AM
Clearly - rising above homelessness, staying out of trouble despite being in a toxic environment and working hard to improve your situation on and off the court are to be commended. How do you draw the conclusion that I am against Jr. College kids based on the fact that I feel pointing a gun in someone's face, and threatening to leave their kids orphaned over a wallet, disqualifies one from receiving the privilege of a scholarship?
That's quite an imagination.
And, can we stop with the "mistake of a 15 yr old" talk? Committing ARMED robbery is not a mistake, or being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I've made mistakes, that was not one of them. Armed robbery is having total disregard for human life, and IMO disqualifies one from being awarded an athletic scholarship.
If having that opinion makes me heartless, unforgiving, judgmental and elitist in your mind, I am ok with that. This isn't about forgiveness. Simply stated, there are thousands of more deserving kids of a scholarship provided by Blue & Gold Fund donors like myself.
If he wants to enroll in school, and tryout for the team on his own dime, he should. I doubt he will be doing that.
If you think that he pointed a gun in anyone's face, then you are posting without bothering to learn the facts first.
Quote from: Jables1604 on February 04, 2015, 10:03:24 AM
I typically just follow the different threads and rarely do I jump into the fray but I have a few hypotheticals for those who think this guy isn't worthing of being a student-athlete at Marquette. Would your opinions change if he were not a basketball player? In other words would you be objecting so strenuously if he were a JUCO student looking to transfer in strictly as a student? What if he walked on? Also, what if one of the incoming recruits was arrested for a drug-related offense. Should they automatically be disqualified from attending Marquette let alone playing a sport? Where do you draw the line? Who makes the determination on what is or isn't "serios" enough to disqualify someone from attending?
I believe that its a given that that if one of the incoming recruits was arrested (with good cause) for a drug-related offense at this point, they would have their scholarship pulled. Armed robbery is clearly a more serious offense. The difference is eight years of exemplary conduct since the conviction in this case, compared to the lack of time that would be needed by a current recruit to demonstrate that they had gotten their life back on the right track before they would enroll in the fall.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on February 04, 2015, 12:39:16 PM
It is actually people like you that are making society go to sh it these days.
God you are one ignorant bastard.
That is the second time during this thread that you have resorted to name calling. Maybe it's time to take a deep breath.
Still searchin' for that elusive intelligent bastard.
Alexander Hamilton
Leo Da Vinci
Quote from: Michael Kenyon on February 06, 2015, 11:30:54 AM
but can they score?
Alexander Hamilton's shots are always on the money.
Quote from: Stone Cold on February 03, 2015, 06:15:11 PM
maybe we can get a couple manslaughter parolees for the 5 spot next year.
I know we've fallen but are we this desperate?
Huggins will not be happy that we are playing in his sandbox.
Trying to settle the argument based on whether the person is fundamentally good or permanently flawed is probably not the right argument. Both sides can make good points.
The issue is really one of risk tolerance.
Think about it from a 2x2 matrix. One axis is Admit/Don't Admit. The other is Relapse/Doesn't Relapse.
That gives us four potential outcomes:
Admit - Relapse: Marquette's judgement (and that of Coach Wojo, AD Scholl and President Lovell) gets called into serious question.
Admit - No Relapse: Marquette gets the benefit of a potentially great player with no repercussions.
Don't Admit - Relapse: Marquette dodged a potential PR disaster, but few will remember.
Don't Admit - Don't Relapse: Marquette loses out on a great player, and we'll hear about it for years.
We will never know with certainty if this kid is truly rehabilitated or not. That's not a knock on him--that's just a statement of fact. Since we don't know the actual potential to relapse, there will always be an inherent risk in admitting him.
The question at hand is whether his basketball talents outweigh the risk. And that's probably up to Wojo, Scholl and Lovell to solve.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 06, 2015, 11:33:00 AM
Alexander Hamilton's shots are always on the money.
Well played sir.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 05, 2015, 10:33:29 AM
I think this is an interesting discussion and though many would like it to be, it is not a black and white issue, as I can see both sides of the debate.
Dismissing a convicted felon out of hand is not an unreasonable position to take, both for the reputation of your program and more importantly for the safety of your student body. I know that is my immediate reaction. Better safe than sorry for your students is not a bad policy.
But in the end, every situation is different and as a Jesuit university we have the responsibility to try to do the Christian thing. If the young man wants to come to the University and is well-vetted by those charged with making the admission decision and they were completely satisfied that he has turned his life around and can succeed in the classroom and on the court without being a threat to the student body, then we should be open to accepting him and helping him on his journey to being a productive person.
This.
It's not a simple answer, especially at a Jesuit school.
People will try to oversimplify it, but it's a tough question.