Is our most important guard. By far. Duane simply isn't ready. Carlino plays too out of control. Derrick is the most consistent and the guy I trust with the basketball to not do something stupid with.
I agree, but he also had a costly TO late
Quote from: NickelDimer on January 06, 2015, 08:18:31 PM
I agree, but he also had a costly TO late
Yes. But it was the only turnover of the game for him.
Quote from: NickelDimer on January 06, 2015, 08:18:31 PM
I agree, but he also had a costly TO late
Who didn't? Derrick played a solid game. Some freshman error hurt ( with Sandy and Duane), some poor passing, and dribbling into serior traffic. We don't really have guys who can dribble in traffic. And not enough shots for Luke.
The problem is while he is the most trust worthy with it in his hands...he keeps it in his hands too long too often.
If somehow you could combine him and Carlino you could have a pretty nice player
Quote from: wadesworld on January 06, 2015, 08:20:48 PM
Yes. But it was the only turnover of the game for him.
He had two. His A/T over ratio was best on the team however.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 06, 2015, 08:23:26 PM
He had two. His A/T over ratio was best on the team however.
My mistake. Thought that was his first.
Derrick has to be on the floor at the end. He's a better ball handler and provider than anyone else in the backcourt.
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Quote from: Texas Western on January 06, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Did you even watch Carlino tonight? Derrick has 100000x the basketball IQ Carlino displayed in the last 5 minutes.
Quote from: Texas Western on January 06, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Derrick has terrible basketball IQ? Good lord he's probably the smartest player on the floor. And we just won a close game where he was on the floor on Saturday.
I mean, I understand what you are saying about ball stopping in his hands. But how many other players attacked with nowhere to go? Like Duane's travel at the end of the game? Sometimes moving slower is what this team needs.
Somewhere, Ners is screaming. Either that or he is remote typing through Texas Western.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2015, 08:25:47 PM
Derrick has to be on the floor at the end. He's a better ball handler and provider than anyone else in the backcourt.
Yep. And he understands the game much better than Carlino.
Food for thought. On the season:
Derrick 5-19 from 3....26%
JJJ 7-39 from 3....18%
I would actually like to see Derrick shoot more and JJJ less right now.
Derrick is far down on the list of Marquette's troubles. He is shooting by far the best in his career, 45% FG%, and has a 3:1 A/T ratio.
Quote from: Texas Western on January 06, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Your comments reflect a very low basketball IQ.
And I bet half of Derrick's misses were because the shot clock was winding down. To say Derrick has a low basketball iq requires a low basketball iq.
Derrick, Juan, and Fischer are our three most important players. While others can have big outings, those guys will give us good, consistently smart play on a nightly basis.
Quote from: Texas Western on January 06, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Tex, I hope we can chalk this up to frustration. Derrick's basketball IQ is miles above our other guards who regularly are out of control, out of position and commit dumb fouls. Tonight Duane was all three down the stretch, but I suppose you think that's OK because he threw up a terrible 3 that banked in. You have said in the past that you have children who are D1 athletes. Please tell me they're not basketball players.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2015, 08:34:00 PM
Food for thought. On the season:
Derrick 5-19 from 3....26%
JJJ 7-39 from 3....18%
I would actually like to see Derrick shoot more and JJJ less right now.
That's an amazing statistic. What I like about Derrick is that he knows exactly the kind of player he is. Offensively he is pretty limited but he plays to his strengths. JJJ tries to do it all, Duane is completely out of control. All of our other guards could learn a lot from Derrick's play.
The commentating team was different today but I remember one of the previous FS1 commentators calling Derrick the "mind, body, and soul" of the team. In fact I remember him saying it about 5 times in one broadcast. I think that's kind of a stretch anyway but he has really improved in a lot of ways... He has become more aggressive with the ball and has made some clutch drives to the basket. His shooting percentage and confidence is up. I agree that he's earning the opportunity to get more play on offense.
At the 4:10 Mark, Derrick got benched for Carlino.
The next three possessions for Marquette
1. Juan Anderson layup off of great ball movement.
2. Luke Fischer layup off of great ball movement.
3. Duane Wilson bank three, after a nice inside-out ball movement. The bank was luck, obviously.
We cut a 6 pt deficit to 1 in 3 possessions with Derrick on the bench.
The two possessions before Derrick left?
1. Derrick Wilson turnover on a terrible entry pass.
2. Sandy Cohen turnover at 8 seconds. Derrick essentially held the ball for the first 24 seconds of the shot clock. He then kicked it to Cohen on the perimeter, and Cohen tried to create.
My point, the ball was not moving when Derrick was on the floor. The passing/spacing was much better w/ Carlino in those final 4 minutes.
Unfortunately, after we cut it to 1 -- Duane traveled.
On the next possession, they defended incredibly well -- and Carlino took a three on a high-screen from JA. I liked the look, it just hit back iron.
I'm not nearly as critical of Carlino's play tonight as seemingly everyone else is on this board. The ball movement is so much better when he's on the floor. When he's out, there is too much dribbling and perimeter passing. Carlino had a few turnovers, but he actually tries to get passes into the middle of the zone (which is exactly where you are supposed to attack the zone).
This is not meant to be a Carlino vs. Derrick post. There are plenty of minutes that both need to get, and both deserve to get. This board is just looking for a scapegoat -- but Carlino is not to blame for this loss.
Regarding basketball IQ (not ability, athleticism, etc.), Derrick and Luke are #s1 and 1A. Juan is next. After that it's a long drop. Actually, Derrick has been one of our top basketball IQ guys since he stepped on campus. Really bad shooter, really high IQ. Without it he wouldn't be playing D1, maybe not even DII or III.
Quote from: hilltopper65 on January 06, 2015, 09:04:28 PM
That's an amazing statistic. What I like about Derrick is that he knows exactly the kind of player he is. Offensively he is pretty limited but he plays to his strengths. JJJ tries to do it all, Duane is completely out of control. All of our other guards could learn a lot from Derrick's play.
The commentating team was different today but I remember one of the previous FS1 commentators calling Derrick the "mind, body, and soul" of the team. In fact I remember him saying it about 5 times in one broadcast. I think that's kind of a stretch anyway but he has really improved in a lot of ways... He has become more aggressive with the ball and has made some clutch drives to the basket. His shooting percentage and confidence is up. I agree that he's earning the opportunity to get more play on offense.
Please DON'T EVER quote Dickie 'Simpleton' Simkins again!
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 06, 2015, 08:25:47 PM
Derrick has to be on the floor at the end. He's a better ball handler and provider than anyone else in the backcourt.
And the shooting (three point, free throw, or otherwise) might not even be significantly worse than what we've seen from others. Giving some a heart attack (at least if we went back in time), Derrick played 24 minutes and it wasn't enough.
Quote from: 94Warrior on January 06, 2015, 09:11:06 PM
Please DON'T EVER quote Dickie 'Simpleton' Simkins again!
Haha I was wondering if anyone else was a little perturbed with his nearly inappropriate love for Derrick... Literally all he talked about that game...
Early prediction for next season.
Scoopers will be commenting about how they wish we had Derrick back for another season.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2015, 10:31:43 PM
Early prediction for next season.
Scoopers will be commenting about how they wish we had Derrick back for another season.
If the staff can't bring a PG in who can play right away, you'll be spot on with that prediction.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2015, 10:31:43 PM
Early prediction for next season.
Scoopers will be commenting about how they wish we had Derrick back for another season.
Lol, not a chance in hell.
Quote from: 94Warrior on January 06, 2015, 09:11:06 PM
Please DON'T EVER quote Dickie 'Simpleton' Simkins again!
It's the strengffff and athleticism! Great lengfffff.
Quote from: TSmith34 on January 06, 2015, 08:30:50 PM
Somewhere, Ners is screaming. Either that or he is remote typing through Texas Western.
+1
Derrick, Luke and Teve were all above average. The BE is more physical than maybe Wojo is used to.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2015/01/06/marquette-59-georgetown-65
Derrick's inbound passes suck. Holds the ball long, usually passes to a player in a tight position where his teammate has to fight for it (luke bailed him out at least once yesterday). One time passed late to the corner where we had two players trapped.
Or we have bad inbound play execution.
Quote from: Texas Western on January 06, 2015, 08:27:31 PM
We will never win a close game when Derrick is in the game with 5 minutes or less. He has terrible basketball iQ. He holds the ball way too much and is simply not a threat in any way and the other team knows it. That said he is not the goat of the game. He played hard etc.
Absolutely. If behind, he spends way too much time dribbling around on the perimeter., when quick points are needed. He is not the guy in that situation. Guess the people that want him at the end there must want it because of his FT prowess, or his ability to create his shot.
Quote from: chapman on January 06, 2015, 09:50:35 PM
And the shooting (three point, free throw, or otherwise) might not even be significantly worse than what we've seen from others. Giving some a heart attack (at least if we went back in time), Derrick played 24 minutes and it wasn't enough.
Now there is a statement swarming with fact based data.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 07, 2015, 07:34:47 AM
Now there is a statement swarming with fact based data.
Quote from: forgetful on January 06, 2015, 08:34:00 PM
Food for thought. On the season:
Derrick 5-19 from 3....26%
JJJ 7-39 from 3....18%
I would actually like to see Derrick shoot more and JJJ less right now.
...?
I've mostly stayed out of this discussion, because I have a lot of respect for Derrick Wilson. He has improved a great deal from last season to this season.
He brings a lot to the table. He is a steadying influence, a good defender, a great rebounder for a guard despite his lack of height and he is a max-effort, high character guy. There is an awful lot to like about him.
But I do not agree with those who say he has a high basketball IQ. He dribbles an awful lot accomplishing nothing other than dwindling the shot clock. His first offensive instinct in all situations is to back it out and start all over again (though he is resisting that urge much more this season), and that is now my biggest problem with him as a player. He is not guarded as loosely this year as he was last year, but he certainly is not guarded tightly and still can take a wide open three pretty much any time he wants in the first 20-25 seconds of the shot clock. How many times last night did a penetrator drive and dish to a wide open Derrick behind the line on the wing, who then won't take the shot and instead will dribble back to the top of the key to reset the offense? Had to be at least 10 times.
I think Wojo is correct to diminish his minutes when we are facing a zone. When we are guarded straight man to man, Derrick is penetrating more this year and creating. Against a zone, he's just a perimeter guy who doesn't challenge or stretch the defense.
Now, a caveat may be that all that dribbling is by design by Wojo to shorten the game and help keep our small rotation out of foul trouble.
Agree with CT. Derrick is much better this season. He has an offensive game now. He dribbles well against the press. The only problem is his slow play. He simply does not play fast transition ball. He tends to slow the pace to a stand still, making the other players stand still. And, he has trouble passing into the post.
Duane was a borderline disaster. Carlino made a few shots but was far too loose with the basketball. Derrick was Derrick.
We have a flawed situation at PG for the second straight season. It's better this year and Wojo has more options than Buzz did, but it still is not high-major caliber.
So we are left debating which option is the least worst.
Long term, I am still high on Duane. And Carlino has to play because he is the only guard who has shown any ability to shoot 3s with any consistency at all. And for all his warts, Derrick often has been our best guard and our stabilizing factor.
Wojo will continue to mix and match 'em, and I really see no other alternative.
At this stage Derrick is more reliable than any of our other guards. Other than a couple of games where one guy or another went off for 30, the shooting hasn't been there, and he seems to have improved this year so the offensive deficiency has lessened. In a game like last night, taking care of the ball is a big issue, and while Derrick had one TO, others had more. I hope JJJ improves and I have to eat these words down the road, but I am getting more and more convinced that he will not develop as any kind of outside threat with the weird shot that he has. The haters will hate on Derrick but the younger guys have much learning to do.
Quote from: wadesworld on January 07, 2015, 07:46:02 AM
...?
try the larger sample of career and see what they look like. But if that doesn't work---fine--you can prefer Derrick, probably a career 18 % 3 point shooter. He should not be shooting 3's unless wide open, and then expect the % to be no more than about 25-30%. Carlino is a much better shooter and at crunch time should be playing the point. But the fact remains, that Derrick is a poor 3 point shooter.
Somehow this feels like Deja Vu from last year, but this season is going to be lost. I would rather have Duane work through struggles and adapt to the college game than watch Derrick hold the ball or miss free throws.
Quote from: MU82 on January 07, 2015, 08:32:21 AM
Duane was a borderline disaster. Carlino made a few shots but was far too loose with the basketball. Derrick was Derrick.
We have a flawed situation at PG for the second straight season. It's better this year and Wojo has more options than Buzz did, but it still is not high-major caliber.
So we are left debating which option is the least worst.
Long term, I am still high on Duane. And Carlino has to play because he is the only guard who has shown any ability to shoot 3s with any consistency at all. And for all his warts, Derrick often has been our best guard and our stabilizing factor.
Wojo will continue to mix and match 'em, and I really see no other alternative.
Correct on all this.
Duane is going to go through slumps and have periods of poor play. He is a freshman in terms of playing in games. It's what freshman do, and who they are. I think his upside is extremely high. You can see flashes of his talent. Most of the mistakes he is making are correctable with experience. Same thing for Cohen and JJJ as well.
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 07, 2015, 10:39:02 AM
Somehow this feels like Deja Vu from last year, but this season is going to be lost. I would rather have Duane work through struggles and adapt to the college game than watch Derrick hold the ball or miss free throws.
Right now Derrick is getting about 30 mpg and Duane is getting 26 mpg.
And Duane has been going through a slump since the Tennessee game. Since then he is shooting 32%, 11% from 3, with 18 assists and 15 turnovers.
You really can't have more of that than you already have. He is getting plenty of time too. He hasn't had less than 20 mpg during that stretch except for North Dakota.
For all his "high basketball IQ" Derrick ranks last on the team in PER at 11.9. Note that 15 is about average.
Luke: 27.8
Juan: 18.8
Cohen: 18.2
Carlino: 17.9
JJJ: 16.9
Duane: 16.5
STJ: 13.8
Derrick: 11.9
But sure, he is our best guard. Note that he is also last for Win Share over Forty Minutes at .089.
I'd just like to note that the topics of discussion on this site has barely changed since the banhammer was brought out on Ners...
Quote from: g0lden3agle on January 07, 2015, 10:51:55 AM
I'd just like to note that the topics of discussion on this site has barely changed since the banhammer was brought out on Ners...
Not really. Discussions about Derrick are in one thread called "Derrick." Not in multiple threads.
And the discussions lack that certain 'over the top insanity' that ners brought for dozens of posts in each thread.
Quote from: Marquette_g on January 07, 2015, 10:47:29 AM
For all his "high basketball IQ" Derrick ranks last on the team in PER at 11.9. Note that 15 is about average.
Luke: 27.8
Juan: 18.8
Cohen: 18.2
Carlino: 17.9
JJJ: 16.9
Duane: 16.5
STJ: 13.8
Derrick: 11.9
But sure, he is our best guard. Note that he is also last for Win Share over Forty Minutes at .089.
Blue was the best player on the 2012-13 team yet his PER ranked 5th on the team. That same season, Cadougan's WS/40 was .090 (the highest of his MU career).
Stats can only tell us so much.
On a team that only has 8 players, NOBODY should be griping about minutes or playing time.
Every player is getting more than enough opportunities to play.
If you ever find yourself thinking: "X should get more minutes!", stop and slap yourself.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 07, 2015, 11:06:33 AM
Blue was the best player on the 2012-13 team yet his PER ranked 5th on the team. That same season, Cadougan's WS/40 was .090 (the highest of his MU career).
Stats can only tell us so much.
You're right, they only tell me that Cadougan wasn't all that great, which is a point I often made amongst friends.
I agree that there are limitations to statistics, but if you look across most advanced metrics, Derrick doesn't fare very well.
Derrick is playing much better than last year, since he's being more aggressive on the offensive end of the floor. However, he still plays too cautious - stalling the offense at times.
Carlino and Duane are both on the opposite end of the spectrum from Derrick - extremely aggressive with the ball. However, they both play out of control and are too careless with the ball - resulting in wasted possessions and turnovers.
Until this year, I thought that was Juan's problem too. His first 3 years at Marquette, he played too fast and out of control. He's slowed things down a bit this year, and you can see the difference. I still wish he'd pull up for more midrange jumpers rather than putting the ball on the floor so often.
Quote from: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 07, 2015, 11:11:11 AM
On a team that only has 8 players, NOBODY should be griping about minutes or playing time.
Every player is getting more than enough opportunities to play.
If you ever find yourself thinking: "X should get more minutes!", stop and slap yourself.
I believe that is what a number of people are saying--Derrick should be in there at the end--was a comment made by several since yesterday. Should they stop and slap themselves? In the last few games, his minutes have increased to above 34 minutes per game. I wonder if those that feel he should be getting more minutes believe that with say, 38 minutes per game, we would even be doing better. Only way we would really know is to continue to increase his time on the court. That could easily be done by taking a few minutes away from JJJ, Carlino, and Duane. According to many on this board, those guys are playing out of control anyway. They are not trying to generate offense.
Quote from: willie warrior on January 07, 2015, 12:40:06 PM
I believe that is what a number of people are saying--Derrick should be in there at the end--was a comment made by several since yesterday. Should they stop and slap themselves? In the last few games, his minutes have increased to above 34 minutes per game. I wonder if those that feel he should be getting more minutes believe that with say, 38 minutes per game, we would even be doing better. Only way we would really know is to continue to increase his time on the court. That could easily be done by taking a few minutes away from JJJ, Carlino, and Duane. According to many on this board, those guys are playing out of control anyway. They are not trying to generate offense.
Slap yourself.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on January 07, 2015, 10:46:54 AM
Right now Derrick is getting about 30 mpg and Duane is getting 26 mpg.
And Duane has been going through a slump since the Tennessee game. Since then he is shooting 32%, 11% from 3, with 18 assists and 15 turnovers.
You really can't have more of that than you already have. He is getting plenty of time too. He hasn't had less than 20 mpg during that stretch except for North Dakota.
Agree. Duane is getting plenty of time to work through his "slump"
Quote from: 79Warrior on January 07, 2015, 01:12:34 PM
Agree. Duane is getting plenty of time to work through his "slump"
Yep. If he can't work out of his slump getting 26 mpg, he can't work out of his slump....
Quote from: Canned Goods n Ammo on January 07, 2015, 11:11:11 AM
On a team that only has 8 players, NOBODY should be griping about minutes or playing time.
Every player is getting more than enough opportunities to play.
If you ever find yourself thinking: "X should get more minutes!", stop and slap yourself.
Best advice I've heard all day