MUScoop

MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:22:38 PM

Title: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
Just read a tweet from Jake Thomas to Dylan Flood. He wished him good luck in the draft tonight. He was obviously being sarcastic and Flood thanked him for supporting his dreams. Kind of funny coming from Jake, who has just as much a chance to get drafted as Flood. Anyways, this made me think of Jamil and the draft. Can you envision any scenario in which a team would draft him tonight? I don't think so, but all it takes is one team to fall in love with his measurables.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2014, 01:24:12 PM
Bribery.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nukem2 on June 26, 2014, 01:25:05 PM
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
Just read a tweet from Jake Thomas to Dylan Flood. He wished him good luck in the draft tonight. He was obviously being sarcastic and Flood thanked him for supporting his dreams. Kind of funny coming from Jake who has just as much a chance to get drafted as Flood. Anyways, this made me think of Jamil and the draft. Can you envision any scenario in which a team would draft him tonight? I don't think so, but all it takes is one team to fall in love with his measurables.
Bucks have 3 second rounders.  Unless they trade them, I could see the Bucks taking a chance on him.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ThatDude on June 26, 2014, 01:31:42 PM
No chance.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 26, 2014, 01:32:13 PM
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:22:38 PM
Just read a tweet from Jake Thomas to Dylan Flood. He wished him good luck in the draft tonight. He was obviously being sarcastic and Flood thanked him for supporting his dreams. Kind of funny coming from Jake who has just as much a chance to get drafted as Flood. Anyways, this made me think of Jamil and the draft. Can you envision any scenario in which a team would draft him tonight? I don't think so, but all it takes is one team to fall in love with his measurables.

Not very unusual measurables for the NBA.  Five years of college where he never lived up to those measurables (by NBA standards) makes him less draftable then when he was a HS senior.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 01:33:21 PM
If the Buzzard had unleashed Jamil his senior year....
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2014, 01:36:07 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2014, 01:32:13 PM
Not very unusual measurables for the NBA.  Five years of college where he never lived up to those measurables (by NBA standards) makes him less draftable then when he was a HS senior.


People who gush about Jamil Wilson's measurables stopped measuring him when he was a sophomore in high school.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 26, 2014, 01:37:23 PM
If Crean wouldn't have bolted, he'd use his many NBA connections, aina?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ThatDude on June 26, 2014, 01:39:30 PM
I actually believe Gardner has the better shot to be draft than Jamil does
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 26, 2014, 01:40:16 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 26, 2014, 01:37:23 PM
If Crean wouldn't have bolted, he'd use his many NBA connections, aina?

Jamil would definitely have a tryout with either the Ravens or the 49ers as a tight end.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2014, 01:32:13 PM
Not very unusual measurables for the NBA.  Five years of college where he never lived up to those measurables (by NBA standards) makes him less draftable then when he was a HS senior.

In a recent workout he measured in at 6'8" with a 41 inch vertical and a 7 ft wingspan. I think that would be pretty impressive to NBA gm's? I don't think he's an NBA player, just think someone might fall for measurables and think they can mold him.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GGGG on June 26, 2014, 01:43:44 PM
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 26, 2014, 01:42:07 PM
In a recent workout he measured in at 6'8" with a 41 inch vertical and a 7 ft wingspan. I think that would be pretty impressive to NBA gm's? I don't think he's an NBA player, just think someone might fall for measurables and think they can mold him.


Not quick enough.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 26, 2014, 01:51:02 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2014, 01:40:16 PM
Jamil would definitely have a tryout with either the Ravens or the 49ers as a tight end.


Cronies like LaRussa, McCarthy, or Maddux coulda found a way, hey?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 01:56:43 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2014, 01:40:16 PM
Jamil would definitely have a tryout with either the Ravens or the 49ers as a tight end.

Based on shying away from contact, I doubt it.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: barfolomew on June 26, 2014, 02:25:40 PM
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2014, 01:40:16 PM
Jamil would definitely have a tryout with either the Ravens or the 49ers as a tight end.

Actually, if it weren't for his phenomenal vertical, I think Davante would have a legitimate shot at that. Good footwork; soft hands.

Plus, looking at game film, he already knows how to sell a pass interference call...
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Canned Goods n Ammo on June 26, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
Quote from: barfolomew on June 26, 2014, 02:25:40 PM
Actually, if it weren't for his phenomenal vertical, I think Davante would have a legitimate shot at that. Good footwork; soft hands.

Plus, looking at game film, he already knows how to sell a pass interference call...


Davante would make a fantastic lineman (either side).

Awesome feet, understands leverage, spacing, good hands, etc.

I don't know that he could play in the NFL, but he could have played college football, no doubt in my mind.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Texas Western on June 26, 2014, 05:41:11 PM
Jamil is a high quality young man. I hope that some team takes a flyer on him tonight. The Bucks should be willing to give a local kid a shot. Would be good PR and he would be a great representative of the team in community relations..  I know all the downside of Jamil from watching these last few years, but he does have some athletic qualities that could be captured.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
Quote from: Texas Western on June 26, 2014, 05:41:11 PM
Jamil is a high quality young man. I hope that some team takes a flyer on him tonight. The Bucks should be willing to give a local kid a shot. Would be good PR and he would be a great representative of the team in community relations..  I know all the downside of Jamil from watching these last few years, but he does have some athletic qualities that could be captured.

He'll get an invite to training camp somewhere, but no team is going to use a pick on him
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 26, 2014, 06:23:38 PM
Harlem Globetrotters still draft? I could see them taking a chance on him. 
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Texas Western on June 26, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2014, 06:09:25 PM
He'll get an invite to training camp somewhere, but no team is going to use a pick on him
To be fair he didn't really earn a pick with his play. However, I never understand the logic in drafting some slow soft 7 foot European in the late second round on a wing and a hope  . When instead a team can pick a local good quality guy. Back in the day ,the Pistons would actually draft local guys on that basis, and would pick up players like a Terry Duerod or John Long and it made their team much more fun and  interesting.

Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Dawson Rental on June 26, 2014, 07:28:40 PM
Quote from: Texas Western on June 26, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
To be fair he didn't really earn a pick with his play. However, I never understand the logic in drafting some slow soft 7 foot European in the late second round on a wing and a hope  . When instead a team can pick a local good quality guy. Back in the day ,the Pistons would actually draft local guys on that basis, and would pick up players like a Terry Duerod or John Long and it made their team much more fun and  interesting.


Back in the days of the seven round NBA draft, I'm thinkin'.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: dgies9156 on June 26, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
At 57, I have the same chance as Jamil of getting drafted tonight.

Jamil is like Bernard Toone -- lots of talent that was never close to being fully realized. You can try to blame Buzz, but Jamil has only Jamil to blame for his present predicament.

Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 26, 2014, 08:28:14 PM
No
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Windyplayer on June 27, 2014, 12:29:04 PM
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 26, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
lots of talent that was never close to being fully realized. You can try to blame Buzz, but Jamil has only Jamil to blame for his present predicament.


I disagree. There was never a tremendous amount of talent. He was a pretty good player with amazing measurables. That "lots of talent" ship sailed after it was never "realized" during his four years at MU.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Hards Alumni on June 27, 2014, 12:39:59 PM
This thread is so precious.

Neither Jamil or Davante will sniff the NBA, let alone the NFL.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Tugg Speedman on June 27, 2014, 12:42:48 PM
Quote from: ThatDude on June 26, 2014, 01:39:30 PM
I actually believe Gardner has the better shot to be draft than Jamil does

+1 

If anyone from MU was going to get drafted this year Ox had a better chance than Jamil.  Ox is a big body and could score (and be a horrible defensive liability).  But at least he brought a skill to the table.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2014, 12:43:26 PM
Gardner can't run
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Sharpie on June 27, 2014, 12:43:57 PM
He seemed happy with putting up a 12 pt 4 board game. Lacked fire/passion and didn't seem to have much leadership ability. No killer instinct. He has great measurable and is a heckuv an athlete so it's too bad that he never did more with the "potential" that was there. He had some great games and some clutch shots here and there but all in all was disappointing. I'm not bashing him by any means but he was an above average player during his time here. Not one of the greats. I do think he could've been but that's all out the door now. And I'm the definition of an optimist especially when it comes to MU hoops.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
Not surprised that Jamil didn't get drafted - he'll get some looks at camps - but I agree with Texas Western's comments about these obscure international players that teams take flyers on in the second round.  Every team thinks they might be getting the rights to the next Novitzki...when in reality they're usually just flushing a draft pick down the toilet.  Why not earn the team a little goodwill by picking a local kid over some guy who'll likely never make it to town?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2014, 01:38:34 PM
Quote from: Texas Western on June 26, 2014, 06:42:20 PM
To be fair he didn't really earn a pick with his play. However, I never understand the logic in drafting some slow soft 7 foot European in the late second round on a wing and a hope

Would you rather have a guy you is 100% guaranteed to be a 9-12 roster player or a guy 10% chance of being a top 7 player? I take the 10% chance guy all day since the other guy will have no impact on wins or losses. Add in the cost savings of letting these guys develop in Europe and it becomes an easier call.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: bilsu on June 27, 2014, 02:55:19 PM
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2014, 12:48:09 PM
Not surprised that Jamil didn't get drafted - he'll get some looks at camps - but I agree with Texas Western's comments about these obscure international players that teams take flyers on in the second round.  Every team thinks they might be getting the rights to the next Novitzki...when in reality they're usually just flushing a draft pick down the toilet.  Why not earn the team a little goodwill by picking a local kid over some guy who'll likely never make it to town?
That goodwill is gone as soon as they cut the player.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2014, 03:37:29 PM
Quote from: bilsu on June 27, 2014, 02:55:19 PM
That goodwill is gone as soon as they cut the player.

And the international unknown is usually gone as soon as they draft him....
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 27, 2014, 04:45:18 PM
Where was Vander picked last night?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2014, 04:59:28 PM
Quote from: GooooMarquette on June 27, 2014, 03:37:29 PM
And the international unknown is usually gone as soon as they draft him....

It's a business and you don't let emotions tie you down to the hometown player. You take BPA all day long. The problem is a lot of college fans have 2-4 years of memories regarding college players making them seem like they are more accomplished then these Europeans. A lot of of these Euro leagues are tougher than the highest D-1 conferences, so it isn't like they weren't playing good competition. Bilas is a perfect example of a guy who constantly rates college players higher than they should be.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: 77ncaachamps on June 27, 2014, 08:34:15 PM
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 26, 2014, 07:55:42 PM
At 57, I have the same chance as Jamil of getting drafted tonight.

Jamil is like Bernard Toone -- lots of talent that was never close to being fully realized. You can try to blame Buzz, but Jamil has only Jamil to blame for his present predicament.


That's good still.

Because Toone got a cup of joe in the League.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: tower912 on June 27, 2014, 08:36:46 PM
Jamil's rep after college is the same as it was coming out of high school.   
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: keefe on June 27, 2014, 09:18:42 PM
Quote from: 4everwarriors on June 27, 2014, 12:43:26 PM
Gardner can't run

You were never at opening time at the Golden Corral?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Texas Western on June 27, 2014, 09:38:46 PM
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2014, 04:59:28 PM
It's a business and you don't let emotions tie you down to the hometown player. You take BPA all day long. The problem is a lot of college fans have 2-4 years of memories regarding college players making them seem like they are more accomplished then these Europeans. A lot of of these Euro leagues are tougher than the highest D-1 conferences, so it isn't like they weren't playing good competition. Bilas is a perfect example of a guy who constantly rates college players higher than they should be.
Yes it is a business and part of business is putting butts in the seats and creating local interest .  A team needs an identity. That is easy to do on the weekends but much harder to do every day of the week.  I just think a  local college guy is worth it from a business perspective, it helps with the community relation aspects. A team is not always made out of the best players available.  Also I really disagree about the quality of the Euro Leagues. The quality of the players is very mixed. Yes there are some good players here and there. However, our College basketball  has much tougher competition and the experience of playing in sold out large arenas on the road and in the NCAA tournament here is very valuable and is not replicated overseas. 
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nevada233 on June 27, 2014, 09:57:50 PM
Jamil and Gardner were not in the top 60 players (2 rounds) in the draft. No way would a team waste a pick on them when they can get em
For pennies on the dollar. I doubt they ever wear an NBA jersey unless they buy it.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 27, 2014, 11:45:37 PM
I used to think nba teams should use late 2nd round picks to get local kids to attract more fans. Then the bucks drafted Jon Leuer....I didn't see a notable attendance spike
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: martyconlonontherun on June 28, 2014, 12:02:00 AM
Quote from: Texas Western on June 27, 2014, 09:38:46 PM
Yes it is a business and part of business is putting butts in the seats and creating local interest .  A team needs an identity. That is easy to do on the weekends but much harder to do every day of the week.  I just think a  local college guy is worth it from a business perspective, it helps with the community relation aspects. A team is not always made out of the best players available.  Also I really disagree about the quality of the Euro Leagues. The quality of the players is very mixed. Yes there are some good players here and there. However, our College basketball  has much tougher competition and the experience of playing in sold out large arenas on the road and in the NCAA tournament here is very valuable and is not replicated overseas. 
If the bucks drafted Jamil, how many people would care? No one cared when Caron was here last year. Fans care about winning and the best thing management should do is pick the players they think are the best. I don't know how playing with grown men and tougher competition in Europe is a negative.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Galway Eagle on June 28, 2014, 10:07:34 AM
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 27, 2014, 11:45:37 PM
I used to think nba teams should use late 2nd round picks to get local kids to attract more fans. Then the bucks drafted Jon Leuer....I didn't see a notable attendance spike

Exactly.  It might occasionally put a few extra fans in the seats but not anything that's worth it for compromising a better pick. 
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Avenue Commons on June 28, 2014, 12:19:58 PM
Quote from: Canned Goods n Ammo on June 26, 2014, 05:11:24 PM
Davante would make a fantastic lineman (either side).

Awesome feet, understands leverage, spacing, good hands, etc.

I don't know that he could play in the NFL, but he could have played college football, no doubt in my mind.


Can you imagine Davante pulling as a guard and leading the sweep? He'd be amazing. That really was his best fit.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
After seeing who got drafted, I'm sorry but no one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year.  More than likely, he would have had a better year his senior year.

Too bad, but he does have the shoes and 200+ teammates.  Smart kid, maybe the Buzzard wore on him as well.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nukem2 on June 28, 2014, 02:57:02 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
After seeing who got drafted, I'm sorry but no one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year.  More than likely, he would have had a better year his senior year.

Too bad, but he does have the shoes and 200+ teammates.  Smart kid, maybe the Buzzard wore on him as well.
If so, he should be able to make an impression in this year's NBA summer leagues?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: TAMU, Knower of Ball on June 28, 2014, 06:44:40 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
After seeing who got drafted, I'm sorry but no one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year.  More than likely, he would have had a better year his senior year.

Too bad, but he does have the shoes and 200+ teammates.  Smart kid, maybe the Buzzard wore on him as well.

Idk, jahii carson didn't get drafted this year. I think Carson would go before Vander
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: jesmu84 on June 28, 2014, 08:01:30 PM
https://twitter.com/DonBossUp/status/482932856197353472

"Congrats to Jamil Wilson for signing with the Washington Wizards"
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: MU82 on June 28, 2014, 10:41:53 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
After seeing who got drafted, I'm sorry but no one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year. 

Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft.

I'm sorry ... but I obviously could tell you just that.

Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 11:32:49 AM
Quote from: MU82 on June 28, 2014, 10:41:53 PM
Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft.

I'm sorry ... but I obviously could tell you just that.



We will agree to disagree.  IMO, he was better than 10 to 12 guys that actually were drafted this year and that was based on his junior year.  If he had a solid senior year, which he was likely to do, no doubt in my mind.

On the Jahil Carson stuff, he was a point guard and didn't get drafted largely because of his size.  Since 2000, only 1.2% of all draftees have been under 6' tall.  Carson is 5'10 without shoes.  Also not considered a strong defender translated to the NBA.  A score first PG. 
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: brandx on June 29, 2014, 12:30:25 PM
Quote from: MU82 on June 28, 2014, 10:41:53 PM
Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft.



+1

Much, much stronger draft field this year.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 01:07:53 PM
Quote from: brandx on June 29, 2014, 12:30:25 PM
+1

Much, much stronger draft field this year.

Overall, of course.  That doesn't mean he didn't have a spot there for him.

I think I'll bring in Draft Express experts for another interview this week to see how they would have viewed it.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2014, 01:23:16 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 11:32:49 AM
We will agree to disagree.  IMO, he was better than 10 to 12 guys that actually were drafted this year and that was based on his junior year.  If he had a solid senior year, which he was likely to do, no doubt in my mind.

On the Jahil Carson stuff, he was a point guard and didn't get drafted largely because of his size.  Since 2000, only 1.2% of all draftees have been under 6' tall.  Carson is 5'10 without shoes.  Also not considered a strong defender translated to the NBA.  A score first PG. 

Semaj Christon was a significantly better prospect than Vander because of his proven PG skills and nearly 40% 3P shooting. He is listed as only 1 inch shorter than Vander was listed.

Christon went 55th in a draft that just about every scout and expert anywhere considered vastly superior to and deeper than the 2013 draft.

Jordan McRae, a 6-6 shooting guard from Tennessee, outperformed Vander statistically across the board, aside from being far more physically imposing. He went 58th.

Xavier Thames of San Diego State, another proven PG who shot 37.4% from 3P, averaged 17.6 ppg and stands 6-3 (like Christon, an inch shorter than Vander), went 59th.

So even if you for some reason believe Vander would have been selected ahead of one or more of those three guards, or that he would have been the 60th and final selection, there is little fact-based support for the certitude you voiced in your earlier post.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 02:35:04 PM
Be nice to hear from guys that do this for a living this week then, eh?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2014, 03:11:05 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 28, 2014, 02:38:53 PM
After seeing who got drafted, I'm sorry but no one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year.  More than likely, he would have had a better year his senior year.

Too bad, but he does have the shoes and 200+ teammates.  Smart kid, maybe the Buzzard wore on him as well.

You're full of it. This was a much better and much deeper draft than last year. Just a way for you to take a cheap shot at the kid and Buzz. Typical.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nukem2 on June 29, 2014, 03:26:49 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2014, 03:11:05 PM
You're full of it. This was a much better and much deeper draft than last year. Just a way for you to take a cheap shot at the kid and Buzz. Typical.
Nah, Chicos is right here.  Look at the second round.  Vander is/was better than quite a few picks.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2014, 03:32:39 PM
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 29, 2014, 03:26:49 PM
Nah, Chicos is right here.  Look at the second round.  Vander is/was better than quite a few picks.

Not than Christon, Thames and McCrae, three guards who went at the end of the draft.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2014, 03:35:56 PM
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2014, 02:35:04 PM
Be nice to hear from guys that do this for a living this week then, eh?

The only guys who draft for a living are GMs.

They spoke loudly about Vander last year.

They spoke loudly again when they repeatedly rejected opportunities to sign him from the D-League throughout the season.

And every GM I saw interviewed in the last month called this draft far superior to last year's draft.

Look, I don't mean to make this a bash-Vander thing. But there is little reason to believe he would have been drafted this year, either. And there is zero reason to believe it would have been the slam dunk you suggested.

As a poster on another thread just said in the last hour or so, you're not really very good at admitting you're wrong. And that's fine. It's America; everybody has the right to be wrong.

I know I'm wrong quite often -- just not this time!
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Texas Western on June 29, 2014, 03:37:28 PM
Quote from: MU82 on June 29, 2014, 01:23:16 PM
Semaj Christon was a significantly better prospect than Vander because of his proven PG skills and nearly 40% 3P shooting. He is listed as only 1 inch shorter than Vander was listed.

Christon went 55th in a draft that just about every scout and expert anywhere considered vastly superior to and deeper than the 2013 draft.

Jordan McRae, a 6-6 shooting guard from Tennessee, outperformed Vander statistically across the board, aside from being far more physically imposing. He went 58th.

Xavier Thames of San Diego State, another proven PG who shot 37.4% from 3P, averaged 17.6 ppg and stands 6-3 (like Christon, an inch shorter than Vander), went 59th.

So even if you for some reason believe Vander would have been selected ahead of one or more of those three guards, or that he would have been the 60th and final selection, there is little fact-based support for the certitude you voiced in your earlier post.
I think those are three good comparisons to Vander. My sense is if Vander would have played his Senior year with MU he would have been right there with those three. Lamar Patterson from Pittsburgh (a 6 -5 guard /forward) had a nice up tick his Senior year and was drafted 48th. However, Vander could have been left out like Keith Appling was as well.  I think this years draft would have been a close call. At the end of the day his heart was not in playing his Senior year at MU. The path he took enabled him to get a lot of valuable life experience, a cup of coffee in the league and he is now well positioned for this year. Hope he realizes his dream.
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2014, 03:38:33 PM
Quote from: MU82 on June 29, 2014, 03:35:56 PM
The only guys who draft for a living are GMs.

They spoke loudly about Vander last year.

They spoke loudly again when they repeatedly rejected opportunities to sign him from the D-League throughout the season.

And every GM I saw interviewed in the last month called this draft far superior to last year's draft.

Look, I don't mean to make this a bash-Vander thing. But there is little reason to believe he would have been drafted this year, either. And there is zero reason to believe it would have been the slam dunk you suggested.

As a poster on another thread just said in the last hour or so, you're not really very good at admitting you're wrong. And that's fine. It's America; everybody has the right to be wrong.

I know I'm wrong quite often -- just not this time!

+1000
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nukem2 on June 29, 2014, 04:11:03 PM
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 29, 2014, 03:32:39 PM
Not than Christon, Thames and McCrae, three guards who went at the end of the draft.
Vander is better than Thames or Christon
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: GGGG on June 29, 2014, 04:17:07 PM
Quote from: Nukem2 on June 29, 2014, 04:11:03 PM
Vander is better than Thames or Christon


At what position?

*If* Vander had come back and played a significant amount of time at PG, *and* performed well, then yes...he would be better than both.  But Thames and Christon have proven point guard qualities.  Vander did not. 
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: MU82 on June 29, 2014, 04:35:20 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 29, 2014, 04:17:07 PM

At what position?

*If* Vander had come back and played a significant amount of time at PG, *and* performed well, then yes...he would be better than both.  But Thames and Christon have proven point guard qualities.  Vander did not. 

Exactly.

This is a fan forum and it's all about expressing opinions.

I try very hard (sometimes fail I'm sure, but I try) not to express an opinion and then call it fact.

The facts in Vander's case: A year ago, he was not deemed good enough for the NBA by the only people that mattered. Then, in the 10 months that followed, he repeatedly was deemed not good enough by every GM in the league. The one GM who did give him a brief chance let him go 10 days later.

"I believe Vander would have improved as a senior and been drafted in 2014" is a welcome opinion, even if I and others disagree with it. It's a far cry from "Vander is better than Thames and Christon" (opinion disguised as fact) or "No one can tell me Vander would not have been drafted in this year's draft if he had the same year as he did his junior year" (opinion disguised as fact) or "Vander is/was better than quite a few picks" (opinion disguised as fact).

Lots of Marquette fans thought Vander was better than guys who were drafted last year, too. But those were only opinions from folks with obvious biases. The fact was that 30 NBA general managers disagreed, and that fact trumped any Scoopers' opinions. If some NBA draft "expert" subsequently opines that Vander would have been drafted ahead of Christon and Thames this year, that opinion is worth no more than mine or Chicos or any other Scoopers. It's still an opinion, not a fact.

I look at Vander and I don't see an NBA player. I didn't see it last year and I have no reason to see it now. That's my opinion; I don't pretend it's a fact. It would appear the facts do support my opinion quite well, however.

Which facts support the opinion that Vander would have been drafted had he returned to Marquette for his senior season?
Title: Re: Jamil Wilson
Post by: Nukem2 on June 29, 2014, 04:42:44 PM
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 29, 2014, 04:17:07 PM

At what position?

*If* Vander had come back and played a significant amount of time at PG, *and* performed well, then yes...he would be better than both.  But Thames and Christon have proven point guard qualities.  Vander did not. 
Dee Davis was X's PG.  Vander and Chrston are very similar players, though Van is a superior defender.  Both are more athletic than Thames, who is more of a combo guard.
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