MUScoop

from Mike Hunt in today's JS:
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/goldeneagles/steve-wojciechowski-likes-results-of-marquettes-practices-b99280622z1-261193701.html

(http://media.jrn.com/images/660*459/b99280622z.1_20140529224032_000_gi36e6p1.1-0.jpg)

Marquette has begun its eight-week summer practice session with every player except two.

Point guard Matt Carlino, the transfer from Brigham Young, and swingman Sandy Cohen, who is finishing his senior year at Seymour High, have yet to arrive on campus.

But coach Steve Wojciechowski, who has been on the job for two months, said Carlino and Cohen will both be present for the second four-week practice session that will coincide with the second session of summer school.

Marquette's other nine players are enrolled in the first session of summer school and working out with the new staff.

"The kids have embraced me and the staff and the way we want to do things." Wojciechowski said. "I've been impressed with their capacity to work. I've been impressed with their willingness to embrace change.

"The excitement and the enthusiasm have been terrific."

For now the Golden Eagles are moving ahead with 11 scholarship players, two fewer than the NCAA limit. Three of the players who signed with Buzz Williams backed out of their scholarships, leaving the Golden Eagles short-handed and largely without what was considered to be one of the country's top recruiting classes.

Wojciechowski didn't rule out adding to the roster with another transfer or a walk-on, but added he is comfortable going into the season with what he has.

"I don't know how that will shape out, but we're always looking to improve our roster," he said. "In today's age of college basketball, it's a transient society, so things change all the time. We have to be alert to those changes. If there is a kid who fits the profile who comes available, we have to be ready to recruit him here.

"I'm completely comfortable with who we have in the program right now. I love my guys. I believe in them. If we can add somebody I can believe in the same way and wants to be a part of what we do, we'll be open to that."

As for the three who declined to enroll at Marquette after the coaching change, he said, "I only want guys who want to be at Marquette. To me it's an honor to wear the Marquette jersey. So if I have to twist your arm or trick you or have to promise you stuff to put on that jersey, that's not the right fit.

"There are enough kids around the United States who recognize the Marquette brand both as a basketball program and a university, as a place they can get better as a person and a player."

At the moment, the guard-heavy roster skews small and will pose a challenge for the new staff to balance.

Carlino, Duane Wilson and Derrick Wilson are at the point. John Dawson is a combo guard. Todd Mayo and JaJuan Johnson are shooting guards. Cohen can play small forward or shooting guard. Deonte Burton, Juan Anderson and Steve Taylor Jr. are forwards. Indiana transfer Luke Fischer is the only big man.

The loss of 7-foot center Satchel Pierce, who joined Williams at Virginia Tech, cut into Marquette's size.

After his arrival on April 1, Wojciechowski was allotted two hours each week to work with the players. Most of that time was devoted to getting to know them.

He'll use the first four-week session to develop and orient the players to the new system. "We're trying to develop a skill set and a base they'll need to play the style we want to play," he said. "The additional benefit is you really get to know a guy. I've always found the best way to build a relationship is on the court."

Wojciechowski recently returned from the Big East meetings in Florida, where the emphasis was fine-tuning the bugs out of the first season of the reorganized league. He has yet to settle into a new home because his family is still in North Carolina, where his two young children are finishing school.

"I love Milwaukee," he said. "It's a very cool city. The people are great. There are really cool areas to it. The staff and I have enjoyed it. I don't know it nearly as well as I'm going to know it, but I love what I've seen so far."

I will not fall in love with this coach.....I will not be burned again.....I will not fall in love with this coach.....I will not be burned again.......I will not fall in.....F*CK IT....I'm all in!

he looks like he should be petting a hairless cat in that picture... exxxcellent   

How common is it nowadays that schools have all the players/or most of them in summer school and then have practices? Did not know this was even allowed--shows I am dated. What are the NCAA regs on these type of practices? Anybody know?

Quote from: mu03eng on May 30, 2014, 10:57:16 AM
I will not fall in love with this coach.....I will not be burned again.....I will not fall in love with this coach.....I will not be burned again.......I will not fall in.....F*CK IT....I'm all in!

I think he is doing all the right things with the players. He needs to rebuid their confidence after last seasons head trips from Buzz. WOJO learned from one of the best motivators in college basketball. I will take that style over Buzz's bi-polar treatment of some of his players.

This is the part you should have put in bold:

Quote from: Chucklehead on May 30, 2014, 10:28:38 AM

To me it's an honor to wear the Marquette jersey. So if I have to twist your arm or trick you or have to promise you stuff to put on that jersey, that's not the right fit.

There are enough kids around the United States who recognize the Marquette brand both as a basketball program and a university, as a place they can get better as a person and a player.

This guy gets it.

He isn't stupid...saying the right things, serving the fans what they want to hear.  Smart guy.


Wash, rinse, repeat.  Hope he stays awhile and is successful

Quote from: warriorchick on May 30, 2014, 11:31:00 AM
This is the part you should have put in bold:

This guy gets it.

We'll have a quality program that'll see the NCAA tournament most of the time.  I don't expect to ever see a elite eight again, however.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 30, 2014, 11:39:29 AM
He isn't stupid...saying the right things, serving the fans what they want to hear.  Smart guy.


Wash, rinse, repeat.  Hope he stays awhile and is successful

Personal question: do you think he is genuine in what he is saying? Or do you feel that this is coach speak and his schtick ala Buzz?

Recruiting is the lifeblood of any program, we will see by November what is going on, needs 3 or 4 bodies for sure next year.  Lets see who buys into what he is doing.  he can say what he
wants now, the right stuff, so time will tell.

Quote from: Sharpie on May 30, 2014, 11:42:26 AM
Personal question: do you think he is genuine in what he is saying? Or do you feel that this is coach speak and his schtick ala Buzz?

No one knows, and for the life of me I don't know why we spend so much time analyzing that point.  Just enjoy the ride and hope it's not a bumpy one.

The 2015 recruiting class is huge for the direction of the program under Wojo.

Another recap- http://marquette.scout.com/story/1407144-wojo-s-first-59-days-at-mu?s=415

Interesting part here- "One player who was noted in Wojciechowski's press conference was red-shirt guard Duane Wilson, who missed his entire freshman season with a stress fracture in his left leg. Wojciechowski confirmed that Wilson is healthy and complimented his love for the game and work ethic.

"I really like Duane a lot," Wojciechowski said. "I think he has great potential and I think he's a really good player right now with room to improve. I like his spirit, I like the fact that he loves being in the gym and he's a guy who I think will have an impact on our team this year and will be a big part of our program."

Quote from: Sharpie on May 30, 2014, 11:42:26 AM
Personal question: do you think he is genuine in what he is saying? Or do you feel that this is coach speak and his schtick ala Buzz?

I think in today's media trained world, the world that even corporate executives have to go through now, they all say roughly the same thing.

Do I think he likes Milwaukee...sure.  Do I think he likes his team and wants only guys that want to be at Marquette.  Absolutely.  Do I think in 5 to 10 years he could substitute Milwaukee with Charleston, or Atlanta or Los Angeles and the other words be exactly the same?  YUP.

So it's a bit of both.  I just don't get sucked in with the "but but but he said he loved MU and Milwaukee" when it comes time he bolts.

That's why I thought Buzz's crap from day one was just that...crap.  It's crap with all of them in the sense that they are saying what wants to be heard or has to be said in that position.  Doesn't mean their isn't a hint of truth to what they are saying, but people shouldn't latch on to it like they are going to be here until they retire either.   Hell, 38% of folks that say I DO forever doesn't materialize either.  Just the nature of the world where contracts don't mean jack anymore, commitments aren't binding, and an entitlement society that pushes all.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 30, 2014, 12:42:42 PM

That's why I thought Buzz's crap from day one was just that...crap.  It's crap with all of them in the sense that they are saying what wants to be heard or has to be said in that position.  Doesn't mean their isn't a hint of truth to what they are saying, but people shouldn't latch on to it like they are going to be here until they retire either.   Hell, 38% of folks that say I DO forever doesn't materialize either.  Just the nature of the world where contracts don't mean jack anymore, commitments aren't binding, and an entitlement society that pushes all.

Never bought in to Buzz's schtick.  But I did buy in that he could win a title here.  Thought he was just crazy enough to do it. 

Quote from: MUfan12 on May 30, 2014, 12:14:25 PM
Another recap- http://marquette.scout.com/story/1407144-wojo-s-first-59-days-at-mu?s=415

Interesting part here- "One player who was noted in Wojciechowski's press conference was red-shirt guard Duane Wilson, who missed his entire freshman season with a stress fracture in his left leg. Wojciechowski confirmed that Wilson is healthy and complimented his love for the game and work ethic.

"I really like Duane a lot," Wojciechowski said. "I think he has great potential and I think he's a really good player right now with room to improve. I like his spirit, I like the fact that he loves being in the gym and he's a guy who I think will have an impact on our team this year and will be a big part of our program."

Was convinced a year ago that Duane would be a star for Marquette. I can't determine if it will be a dynamic, carry a team to Final Four type star or simply a Cotton candy type star who steadily becomes a program's best player with intermittent team success. But Duane seems to get "it" and I agree with Wojo that he has a spirit above most other players.

I dont at all believe it to be shtick.  The only one that I have felt was full of S#it was Crean.  And that is only because Crean lacked any personality whatsoever.  So he had to do something.  I believe KO, Deane, Buzz and Wojo speak from the heart.  They are all in guys as you have to be.  They speak from the heart and have tremendous desire to be successful.  The perception that these guys are diabolical masterminds pltting at all times to F over a fanbase or what have you is ludicrous to me.  I know a lot of coaches and they are all good guys.  Heck, they are just basketball coaches and they know that, the oone thing that they do do and they will all admit to it is they feel they need to stay one step ahead of the posse.  They get fired and they may neve get a job again.  Not only do they want to coninue doing what they love. But they do not want tp lose their paychecks and professionin their 40's 50's etc.  That is why you see guys like Haith and Buzz make the moves thay made.

Do i think Buzz made a dumb move, of course.  But its not what i or anyone else think.  he stated he wasnt gonna mess with happy nad that he would stay as long as MU would have him.  obviously what tarnspired over the last few years changed his perception.  You can disagree with his perception but you cant chnage it.  He might have been paranoid, unhappy, or whatever. But his move provided him a new start, green grass, & 7 years guaranteed.   Happens quite alot withepeople in all types of careers we just dont have to like it when it happens to us

It's all schtick.

It doesn't mean it's a lie, but it's schtick.

Wojo seems cool, and he's likeable.

If he wins, he'll be lovable.

If he loses, he'll be hatable.

It's not anymore complicated than that.

Quote from: Sharpie on May 30, 2014, 11:42:26 AM
Personal question: do you think he is genuine in what he is saying? Or do you feel that this is coach speak and his schtick ala Buzz?

MUScoop: "Wojo, does this dress make us look fat?"
Wojo: "Of course not!"

Quote from: barfolomew on May 30, 2014, 03:54:53 PM
MUScoop: "Wojo, does this dress make us look fat?"
Wojo: "Of course not!"

It took until late Friday afternoon, but you just earned "Post of the Week" honors.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 30, 2014, 03:13:18 PM
It's all schtick.

It doesn't mean it's a lie, but it's schtick.

Wojo seems cool, and he's likeable.

If he wins, he'll be lovable.

If he loses, he'll be hatable.

It's not anymore complicated than that.

Bottom line is it is a business and coaches are hired guns. Unless you happen to be Kevin Ollie and coach where you played, its all coach speak. Who is really going to say I hate it here and can't wait to leave. Every coach "loves" their current employer until the next one comes calling. Maybe WOJO is a lifer, maybe not. The guy has not even coached a game yet, so there are plenty of chapters to come in this book.

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 30, 2014, 11:41:41 AM
We'll have a quality program that'll see the NCAA tournament most of the time.  I don't expect to ever see a elite eight again, however.

How old are you?  Unless you are dying sometime soon, I have a feeling that you will see another Elite 8 (albeit it might take some time).

What was he supposed to say?

Quote from: tower912 on May 30, 2014, 07:07:23 PM
What was he supposed to say?

That sonuvabitch Derrick ain't starting sh!t this season!

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 30, 2014, 11:41:41 AM
We'll have a quality program that'll see the NCAA tournament most of the time.  I don't expect to ever see a elite eight again, however.

The last 10 years or so NCAA tournaments have demonstrated clearly that really any school from any conference can make a run.  You've had George Mason, Va. Commonwealth, and Butler all make Final Fours.  Anything is possible.  The only thing to expect is the unexpected.  MU is clearly at a level and in a conference where it's eminently possible any given year.

Let's hope Wojo and staff can make it happen.

I'm not into predictions, but I've said before and will say again- watch Steve Taylor take off this year under Wojo.  He's clearly demonstrated talent since his freshman season and to be out from under Buzz's weird ways, I think he'll flourish.  Plus he's one of the few post guys on a guard dominated team.  He's going to play a lot of minutes and get a ton of opportunities.  And I bet he's more than up to the challenge.  Most improved player for 2014-15, double digit scorer too.

Quote from: LAMUfan on May 30, 2014, 11:14:04 AM
he looks like he should be petting a hairless cat in that picture... exxxcellent   

Correction: He looks like just got some, aina?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on May 30, 2014, 08:44:25 PM

Correction: He looks like just got some, aina?

I think the hairless cat petting description is more accurate.  And damn funny.

Think it is a bit too early to make predictions. Certainly we will not start the season in a position of strength. If Wojo can pull off some surprises it would be special but I think we need to be realistic and give Wojo a chance. He is digging out of a big hole that the previous wizard from Podunk Texas gave to us as his parting gift.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 30, 2014, 12:42:42 PM
I think in today's media trained world, the world that even corporate executives have to go through now, they all say roughly the same thing.

Do I think he likes Milwaukee...sure.  Do I think he likes his team and wants only guys that want to be at Marquette.  Absolutely.  Do I think in 5 to 10 years he could substitute Milwaukee with Charleston, or Atlanta or Los Angeles and the other words be exactly the same?  YUP.

So it's a bit of both.  I just don't get sucked in with the "but but but he said he loved MU and Milwaukee" when it comes time he bolts.

That's why I thought Buzz's crap from day one was just that...crap.  It's crap with all of them in the sense that they are saying what wants to be heard or has to be said in that position.  Doesn't mean their isn't a hint of truth to what they are saying, but people shouldn't latch on to it like they are going to be here until they retire either.   Hell, 38% of folks that say I DO forever doesn't materialize either.  Just the nature of the world where contracts don't mean jack anymore, commitments aren't binding, and an entitlement society that pushes all.

I agree with the notion that Wojo is a sophisticated media savvy guy. It would be hard not to with the experience he has had. That said he is also smart enough to know that his past doesn't matter any more, and he is a newbie Head Coach in a high visibility job who has to prove himself. So given that I believe him to be genuine in his spirit and 100 per cent committed to the moment and place he is in now. He is spot on in the points he is making.

I think he will do a very good job with the returning players. His first milestone will be to work Carlino into the team. If he is successful with that we could surprise some people early.

Relevant

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGDBR2L5kzI)

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 30, 2014, 11:41:41 AM
We'll have a quality program that'll see the NCAA tournament most of the time.  I don't expect to ever see a elite eight again, however.

Silliness.

Aside from the usual suspects who have the all-world talent to be good every season, dozens of other schools will have a legit chance to make the Elite 8 - or Final Four - every season.

Or maybe you saw Wichita State's 2013 run coming two years earlier.

Or VCU's 2011 run coming two years earlier.

Or Butler's 2010 (and 2011!) run coming two years earlier.

Or UConn's 2009 (and 2014!) run coming two weeks before the end of the regular season.

Or ...

You get my drift.

Hey, my unimpeachable sources say the NCAA tournament is a crapshoot!

Quote from: MU82 on May 30, 2014, 10:15:51 PM
Silliness.

Aside from the usual suspects who have the all-world talent to be good every season, dozens of other schools will have a legit chance to make the Elite 8 - or Final Four - every season.

Or maybe you saw Wichita State's 2013 run coming two years earlier.

Or VCU's 2011 run coming two years earlier.

Or Butler's 2010 (and 2011!) run coming two years earlier.

Or UConn's 2009 (and 2014!) run coming two weeks before the end of the regular season.

Or ...

You get my drift.

Hey, my unimpeachable sources say the NCAA tournament is a crapshoot!

Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  It's become clear to me that Buzz leaving (both his motivation and the schools) is largely about limiting the pool from which Marquette can recruit players.  Wojo has yet to show that he can put together a a season of coaching like Buzz did in 2010.  Wojo could bring a return to the limited recruiting of the Crean era.  A lot is still to be determined.  Marquette will remain a solid program.  The current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire era.  The things that made Marquette basketball unique then (a coach at war with the NCAA, who constantly worked the officials and who got frequent technicals, a player cutting down the nets with a switchblade) would cause the current BOT to cringe.  I just feel that Marquette is becoming a vanilla program with great resources and a squeeky clean coach that will do well, but lacks what it takes to get to the next level.

I really hope to be proven wrong.

Quote from: Texas Western on May 30, 2014, 10:00:03 PM
I think he will do a very good job with the returning players. His first milestone will be to work Carlino into the team. If he is successful with that we could surprise some people early.

Do not not discount Duane Wilson.

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 31, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  It's become clear to me that Buzz leaving (both his motivation and the schools) is largely about limiting the pool from which Marquette can recruit players.  Wojo has yet to show that he can put together a a season of coaching like Buzz did in 2010.  Wojo could bring a return to the limited recruiting of the Crean era.  A lot is still to be determined.  Marquette will remain a solid program.  The current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire era.  The things that made Marquette basketball unique then (a coach at war with the NCAA, who constantly worked the officials and who got frequent technicals, a player cutting down the nets with a switchblade) would cause the current BOT to cringe.  I just feel that Marquette is becoming a vanilla program with great resources and a squeeky clean coach that will do well, but lacks what it takes to get to the next level.

I really hope to be proven wrong.

I think there's a lot of truth to what you write.  On one hand you see this in business a lot, once you achieve a measure of success, people think it's easy and they get greedy.  There's sometime a tendency to reduce the investment (expenses) in the product to maximize profit.  Here we were looking the other way on some grades, admissions etc and the cost is our prestige.  With 3 straight S16s and a E8 it seems as the Admin is trying to cut costs while hoping for the same profit. 

Or they realized 3 straight S16s are just fads in march and not worth it.  Either way there seems to be a shift at MU and it wasn't just Big Larr and Fr. Pilarz.  McKay left right as Fr. Wild arrived.  Who knows if those two events are related...

I expect Wojo's marching orders are a very solid, competitive program that makes the NCAAs nearly every year.  He will be given nearly every physical resource that money can by but he needs to maintain our academic integrity as much or more so than any coach we have had since KO. 

Look at where Duke assistants are coaching:

Harvard
Stanford
ND
Northwestern

I don't think it's a coincidence that we joined that club.

Quote from: The Lens on May 31, 2014, 11:40:50 AM
I think there's a lot of truth to what you write.  On one hand you see this in business a lot, once you achieve a measure of success, people think it's easy and they get greedy.  There's sometime a tendency to reduce the investment (expenses) in the product to maximize profit.  Here we were looking the other way on some grades, admissions etc and the cost is our prestige.  With 3 straight S16s and a E8 it seems as the Admin is trying to cut costs while hoping for the same profit. 

Or they realized 3 straight S16s are just fads in march and not worth it.  Either way there seems to be a shift at MU and it wasn't just Big Larr and Fr. Pilarz.  McKay left right as Fr. Wild arrived.  Who knows if those two events are related...

I expect Wojo's marching orders are a very solid, competitive program that makes the NCAAs nearly every year.  He will be given nearly every physical resource that money can by but he needs to maintain our academic integrity as much or more so than any coach we have had since KO. 

Look at where Duke assistants are coaching:

Harvard
Stanford
ND
Northwestern

I don't think it's a coincidence that we joined that club.

They were not.

Quote from: The Lens on May 31, 2014, 11:40:50 AM
I think there's a lot of truth to what you write.  On one hand you see this in business a lot, once you achieve a measure of success, people think it's easy and they get greedy.  There's sometime a tendency to reduce the investment (expenses) in the product to maximize profit.  Here we were looking the other way on some grades, admissions etc and the cost is our prestige.  With 3 straight S16s and a E8 it seems as the Admin is trying to cut costs while hoping for the same profit. 

Or they realized 3 straight S16s are just fads in march and not worth it.  Either way there seems to be a shift at MU and it wasn't just Big Larr and Fr. Pilarz.  McKay left right as Fr. Wild arrived.  Who knows if those two events are related...

I expect Wojo's marching orders are a very solid, competitive program that makes the NCAAs nearly every year.  He will be given nearly every physical resource that money can by but he needs to maintain our academic integrity as much or more so than any coach we have had since KO. 

Look at where Duke assistants are coaching:

Harvard
Stanford
ND
Northwestern

I don't think it's a coincidence that we joined that club.

Or, the more simple answer, they were cutting someone off at the pass before he put the program behind the 8 ball and a few giant steps backward.

Let's not forget before Stanford of the last 6 years, they were on a hell of a run of NCAA appearances, a Final Four, etc. 

The world has changed.  The internet didn't exist with Al McGuire, nor did today's 24/7 cycle.  Schools are going to protect their brand and try to portray what they feel is right for their mission.

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 31, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  It's become clear to me that Buzz leaving (both his motivation and the schools) is largely about limiting the pool from which Marquette can recruit players.  Wojo has yet to show that he can put together a a season of coaching like Buzz did in 2010.  Wojo could bring a return to the limited recruiting of the Crean era.  A lot is still to be determined.  Marquette will remain a solid program.  The current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire era.  The things that made Marquette basketball unique then (a coach at war with the NCAA, who constantly worked the officials and who got frequent technicals, a player cutting down the nets with a switchblade) would cause the current BOT to cringe.  I just feel that Marquette is becoming a vanilla program with great resources and a squeeky clean coach that will do well, but lacks what it takes to get to the next level.

I really hope to be proven wrong.

Every current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire program. That breed of coach doesn't exist anymore. Years of helicopter parents and clean up television campaigns have killed this part of college athletics.

I am just fine with the direction Marquette is heading.

FWIW, I believe the Wojo means every word of what he says, 100%. That being said, anyone who thinks that it will keep him from leaving one day is mistaken.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 31, 2014, 12:21:42 PM
Or, the more simple answer, they were cutting someone off at the pass before he put the program behind the 8 ball and a few giant steps backward.

Let's not forget before Stanford of the last 6 years, they were on a hell of a run of NCAA appearances, a Final Four, etc. 

The world has changed.  The internet didn't exist with Al McGuire, nor did today's 24/7 cycle.  Schools are going to protect their brand and try to portray what they feel is right for their mission.

Joining the schools I mentioned is not joining SLU.  There's dual success at those schools.  I believe in Northwestern.

Coaches come and go, that does not mean they do not mean what they say when they say it. Buzz's style was to try to motivate players by saying they were not any good. That resulted in a lot of transfers, but also resulted in players with toughness like Crowder and Butler excelling. That is one style. Wojo seems to want to motivate the players by being positive. I like Wojo's style better. As far as talent Duane, JJJ, Burton and Fischer were all easily top 100 players. Taylor and Anderson were close. I not sure about Carlino, but I suspect he was a top 100. Cohen is a top 100. The team has talent. Size is a concern, but last year was the first year we really had any size. In reality we are not that much smaller than we were last year.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 31, 2014, 12:21:42 PM
Or, the more simple answer, they were cutting someone off at the pass before he put the program behind the 8 ball and a few giant steps backward.

Please stop with this BS. We're still waiting for all the stuff you said was on the verge of coming out months ago.

Quote from: The Lens on May 31, 2014, 11:40:50 AM
Or they realized 3 straight S16s are just fads in march and not worth it.  Either way there seems to be a shift at MU and it wasn't just Big Larr and Fr. Pilarz.  McKay left right as Fr. Wild arrived.  Who knows if those two events are related...

I do.  They are not related in the least. 

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 31, 2014, 05:48:22 PM
Please stop with this BS. We're still waiting for all the stuff you said was on the verge of coming out months ago.

Months ago....try again.

Lenny, there is a reason MU made zero attempt at retaining Brent. 

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 31, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  

That's 2 within a 10-year span. And yet you're now predicting that it will NEVER happen again.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on May 31, 2014, 07:10:32 PM

I do.  They are not related in the least. 

I heard McKay left suddenly because he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role, position, and employment than what Bert offered once he was on campus. This was all about Bert.

Quote from: MU82 on May 31, 2014, 09:58:17 PM
That's 2 within a 10-year span. And yet you're now predicting that it will NEVER happen again.

In your mind, perhaps "I don't expect" = "I predict NEVER", but I consider "I don't expect" a few shades short of "I predict NEVER".

Actually, that's 2 within a 37-year span.  Oh, and neither coach stayed on.  They both chose to leave for what they considered greener pastures due to concerns over recruiting to Marquette.  The first elite eight only happened due to an incredible stroke of recruiting luck, the second due to recruitment of player(s) that Buzz was concerned he could no longer get enrolled at Marquette.

I do hope to be proven wrong.  But - particularly in recruiting - Wojo is going to have to find his own way.  And he'll have a reduced pool of players to recruit from, so he'll have to recruit better than Buzz did just to have the same caliber of player.  Coach K did wonders at Duke, can Wojo repeat that success here?  Well, while Wojo was selective about the job he took, he'll have lees to work with than Coach K did at Duke.  Coach K was reviving a school with a strong tradition of success in men's basketball, and he was doing it in what was then and is now again the preeminent men's basketball conference.  Realistically, Marquette will not challenge Duke as an academic institution any time soon, so that was another advantage Coach K could sell.

Maybe Wojo challenges Duke for recruits (I doubt it), maybe Marquette becomes the "safe school" for players who wanted to go to Duke but ultimately didn't get an offer (there's incredible competition for even that spot).  Wojo was a very solid hire with some great potential, but the challenge he faces is daunting.  I don't sell either Wojo or the challenge he faces short.  When I see a couple of top 20 recruiting classes, I'll start to open up my expectations.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 12:55:43 AM
I heard McKay left suddenly because he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role, position, and employment than what Bert offered once he was on campus. This was all about Bert.

I always felt the problem arose, because Buzz was giving Gardner a chance to play the four. Gardner wanted to play the four even though it is not his real position. Buzz played Gardner at the four in preseason practice, which resulted in McKay playing Gardner's center position spot. Appeasing Gardner made McKay unhappy. In the end Gardner did not play much 4 during the season and it was not worth pissing off McKay to give Gardner the chance.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 12:55:43 AM
I heard McKay left suddenly because he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role, position, and employment than what Bert offered once he was on campus. This was all about Bert.

He was upset about his role.  Neither you nor I have no idea what Buzz told him, or what he chose to hear, during the recruiting process.

It had nothing to do with him being a Juco...Fr. Wild...etc.

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 08:16:15 AM
In your mind, perhaps "I don't expect" = "I predict NEVER", but I consider "I don't expect" a few shades short of "I predict NEVER".

Actually, that's 2 within a 37-year span.  Oh, and neither coach stayed on.  They both chose to leave for what they considered greener pastures due to concerns over recruiting to Marquette.  The first elite eight only happened due to an incredible stroke of recruiting luck, the second due to recruitment of player(s) that Buzz was concerned he could no longer get enrolled at Marquette.

I do hope to be proven wrong.  But - particularly in recruiting - Wojo is going to have to find his own way.  And he'll have a reduced pool of players to recruit from, so he'll have to recruit better than Buzz did just to have the same caliber of player.  Coach K did wonders at Duke, can Wojo repeat that success here?  Well, while Wojo was selective about the job he took, he'll have lees to work with than Coach K did at Duke.  Coach K was reviving a school with a strong tradition of success in men's basketball, and he was doing it in what was then and is now again the preeminent men's basketball conference.  Realistically, Marquette will not challenge Duke as an academic institution any time soon, so that was another advantage Coach K could sell.

Maybe Wojo challenges Duke for recruits (I doubt it), maybe Marquette becomes the "safe school" for players who wanted to go to Duke but ultimately didn't get an offer (there's incredible competition for even that spot).  Wojo was a very solid hire with some great potential, but the challenge he faces is daunting.  I don't sell either Wojo or the challenge he faces short.  When I see a couple of top 20 recruiting classes, I'll start to open up my expectations.

Agree with the above but I also agree with MU's direction for the school. To survive in a more competitive environment for the university they need to have both a good basketball team with a top 50 academic program. Right now we are in the 70's and it is unknown if we can obtain both a good basketball program and excellent academics. Wojo is one of the first steps toward the goals of MU. I hope most can support these duel objectives.

I would argue that Marquette doesn't need a top 50 academic program to survive.  In fact I think it could make a big mistake trying to enter that market.  It does not have the resources right now to compete for the faculty and students that this would require.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 10:17:31 AM

He was upset about his role.  Neither you nor I have no idea what Buzz told him, or what he chose to hear, during the recruiting process.

It had nothing to do with him being a Juco...Fr. Wild...etc.

As I said, he was upset about how he was going to be employed.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 11:12:14 AM
As I said, he was upset about how he was going to be employed.

But that's not all you said.  You also said that "he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role" and that "this was all about Bert."

I have no doubts that he didn't like his role and that's why he left.  However I think you are leaping to conclusions that Buzz told him something different.  You don't know that.  That is a guess on your part.

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 08:16:15 AM
In your mind, perhaps "I don't expect" = "I predict NEVER", but I consider "I don't expect" a few shades short of "I predict NEVER".

Actually, that's 2 within a 37-year span.  Oh, and neither coach stayed on.  They both chose to leave for what they considered greener pastures due to concerns over recruiting to Marquette.  The first elite eight only happened due to an incredible stroke of recruiting luck, the second due to recruitment of player(s) that Buzz was concerned he could no longer get enrolled at Marquette.

I do hope to be proven wrong.  But - particularly in recruiting - Wojo is going to have to find his own way.  And he'll have a reduced pool of players to recruit from, so he'll have to recruit better than Buzz did just to have the same caliber of player.  Coach K did wonders at Duke, can Wojo repeat that success here?  Well, while Wojo was selective about the job he took, he'll have lees to work with than Coach K did at Duke.  Coach K was reviving a school with a strong tradition of success in men's basketball, and he was doing it in what was then and is now again the preeminent men's basketball conference.  Realistically, Marquette will not challenge Duke as an academic institution any time soon, so that was another advantage Coach K could sell.

Maybe Wojo challenges Duke for recruits (I doubt it), maybe Marquette becomes the "safe school" for players who wanted to go to Duke but ultimately didn't get an offer (there's incredible competition for even that spot).  Wojo was a very solid hire with some great potential, but the challenge he faces is daunting.  I don't sell either Wojo or the challenge he faces short.  When I see a couple of top 20 recruiting classes, I'll start to open up my expectations.

I shouldn't have used hyperbole to reflect what you said, so I apologize for that.

I stand by the fact that Marquette has reached the Elite Eight or beyond twice since 2003 -- because it is, well, a fact. Plus, two Sweet 16s.

So I refuse to say "I don't expect" another deep tourney run. Because I have full confidence that it is quite possible. And I am not a blue-and-gold-glasses-wearing, pollyanna, Kool-Aid drinker but a pretty pragmatic guy who realizes how difficult it is to make it through the Chico's Crapshoot that is the NCAA tourney!

I hope to be proven right!

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 11:18:18 AM

But that's not all you said.  You also said that "he felt that during recruitment he was sold a different role" and that "this was all about Bert."

I have no doubts that he didn't like his role and that's why he left.  However I think you are leaping to conclusions that Buzz told him something different.  You don't know that.  That is a guess on your part.

I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 11:40:29 AM
I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 11:40:29 AM
I personally heard nothing first hand. But if McKay made a life decision and left abruptly because he was dissatisfied with how he was going to be used don't you think that differed from what he was told during his recruitment? From what I'm told this was about Bert and a change in McKay's projected use.

Trying to draw logical conclusions based on the decisions of twenty year olds is not reliable.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 10:25:41 AM
I would argue that Marquette doesn't need a top 50 academic program to survive.  In fact I think it could make a big mistake trying to enter that market.  It does not have the resources right now to compete for the faculty and students that this would require.

That is what the BOT believes and I must disagree with them. The expense for a college education is increasingly less justified as graduates find fewer and lower paying jobs. Small businesses and the trades are increasingly becoming better alternatives for some. BOT understands that and is their reason for the direction they taken. May disagree but that is the direction of the school.

Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 11:53:11 AM

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 31, 2014, 09:59:34 AM
Silliness?  Since the 1977 national title, Marquette has been to what? two elite eights?  I can think of the 2003 final four and 2013.  It's become clear to me that Buzz leaving (both his motivation and the schools) is largely about limiting the pool from which Marquette can recruit players.  Wojo has yet to show that he can put together a a season of coaching like Buzz did in 2010.  Wojo could bring a return to the limited recruiting of the Crean era.  A lot is still to be determined.  Marquette will remain a solid program.  The current BOT would be uncomfortable with the McGuire era.  The things that made Marquette basketball unique then (a coach at war with the NCAA, who constantly worked the officials and who got frequent technicals, a player cutting down the nets with a switchblade) would cause the current BOT to cringe.  I just feel that Marquette is becoming a vanilla program with great resources and a squeeky clean coach that will do well, but lacks what it takes to get to the next level.

I really hope to be proven wrong.

You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 01:26:32 PM
What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

In that case, good riddance.

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 01, 2014, 01:25:49 PM
Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

Rumor has it, there is more to life than ... Fill in the blanks. So why go into a panic?

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 01, 2014, 01:25:49 PM
Hogs

What the hell you got against Hogs??

Go Ugly Early!

(http://www.photohome.com/pictures/aircraft-pictures/fighters/a-10-warthog-tank-buster-1a.jpg)

Quote from: Class71 on June 01, 2014, 01:18:55 PM
That is what the BOT believes and I must disagree with them. The expense for a college education is increasingly less justified as graduates find fewer and lower paying jobs. Small businesses and the trades are increasingly becoming better alternatives for some. BOT understands that and is their reason for the direction they taken. May disagree but that is the direction of the school.

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 02:25:22 PM
You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

Was this season part of Brent's plan to make us one of the elites?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 02:25:22 PM
You are 100% correct, Murs. There is zero evidence that MU can compete at the elite level in basketball trying to be Duke North, Stanford East or Notre Dame Northwest. We didn't become the country's #2 college program by being exclusive regarding admissions. We did it with plenty of JUCOs, transfers and guys from high school's so poor/inferior that it was nearly impossible for them to qualify using Marquette's normal standards. I knew and was friendly with a lot of them. Great guys, smart guys from backgrounds much tougher than my own. Guys whom I'm proud to call fellow alumni. In the 35 years post Al, we've made it to the second weekend of the tournament 5 times - once with KO, once with Crean, three times with Buzz. The Crean run was only possible because of a prop 48 and 2 of Buzz's 3 were fueled by JUCOs.

I think we'll be okay going forward. I like what I've seen and heard from Wojo so far. The Crean years sans Wade (and without the constant embarrassment of having a total douche as the face of Marquette basketball) is probably the ceiling. Not bad, but certainly not the elite status that was likely under Buzz.

Those who were embarrassed that guys like Jerome Whitehead, Earl Tatum, Dwyane Wade, Jae Crowder, etc., were admitted to MU can celebrate. I won't.

Lenny

There is no question Al was willing to take risks and it worked out largely because Al had the personality, charisma, and sincerity to pull it off. Not every coach can handle the risk management dimensions of that recruiting strategy.

Frankly, Bert failed in that several incidents happened on his watch that are unacceptable at any college. Moreover, his gross mismanagement of those problems only exacerbated the situation. It is one thing to have poor risk management procedures but in Bert's case he didn't seem to have any and therefore did many things that were just wrong - legally and ethically.

Bert demonstrated an ability to win. Like Al, he took chances on kids from the fringes. Unlike Al, his stewardship was characterized by horrible events that were made worse by his utter lack of judgment. I appreciated Bert's success on the court but I despise the man for what he enabled and contributed to outside the lines. Character has nothing to do with winning basketball games.   

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 03:19:52 PM

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 
[/quote


There are tradeoffs in life.  Focus only on basketball and we may become LSU, rank 135. I love basketball but the quality of the school's academics needs to be in the discussion. Maybe I am wrong but I think most go to school to improve their standard of living through I better education. Basketball is great for many reasons but ...

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 03:07:35 PM
What the hell you got against Hogs??

Go Ugly Early!

(http://www.photohome.com/pictures/aircraft-pictures/fighters/a-10-warthog-tank-buster-1a.jpg)

I believe the "hog" is being rotated out of the air force fleet?

Nothing particular against hogs. They taste good, especially with bbq sauce, stadium sauce or as a smoked breakfast meat. But to bolt a fine city like Milwaukee for a land where the cultural highlife is the Smithfield Packing Company -- or something like that -- is, well, weird.

Incidentally, before you ask, I have nothing against Hooch either! I grew up in Tennessee.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 11:53:11 AM

He also had a lot of family members whispering things in his ear about what his role should be.

Now how the hell do you know that?

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 01, 2014, 01:25:49 PM
Dear Big Jesuit in the Sky:

I am really getting tired of the whining around the Marquette University basketball program. Remember how your son changed water into wine, opened the eyes of the blind man and rose the dead? Cutting off the whiners, the naysayers and the angry jilted fans should be comparatively easy!

Big Jesie, as you know, we just hired a new basketball coach. He's a good guy, came from a great program and promises to do the best he can to replicate the success of your servant, St. Al of Brookfield. Next to your son, St. Al has the most statues and commemorations on campus. But I digress. Our new coach came when our old coach jilted us for the land of Hogs, Hooch and Hillbillies. So all your servants who wear the blue and gold and are under 45 have a massive inferiority complex.

I won't repeat it except to say every element of Coach Wojo's business has been questioned. And the guy hasn't even coached a game yet! You've hinted that life isn't fair, but this is ridiculous.

So, Big Jesie, by the intercession of St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, please make the whining go away. And, if we could win a another national championship, we'd appreciate that too!

Just to clarify about my posts in this thread, the words were not my own, but the words revealed to me by Big Jesuit during a visitation.  Awestruck as I was in his presence, I still questioned my sanity until the end of his visitation when I witnessed his ascension to what could only be described as the front door of the 'Lanche.

p.s. During the visitation I asked if I might be visited by St. Al, himself, to which Big Jesie replied; "St. Al never visits until after he's received his appearance check".

Quote from: keefe on June 01, 2014, 01:26:32 PM
What I heard is that his posse wasn't concerned about 4 v 5 so much as the number of shots he would get

If he could have hit the three pointer with any consistency, his posse might have been proven right this past year.  Of course, you can't promise that to a player from the git go, but had he stayed and been able to hit, he would have had a lot of playing time.  (Assuming, of course, that both Buzz being psychotically wed to his rotation, and Buzz deliberately tanking this season are not true.)  

I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 01, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

We never got to see Al, the elder statesman.  If he could have forced himself to stick to "coaching guys in short pants", I think he would have been seen eventually as a funnier, more entertaining version of Rick Pitino.  (And, of course without the peccadillos from his pecker).

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 03:19:52 PM

But the issue is that you limit the pool.  And lots of people go after that pool.  And they have more resources. 

Quote from: Class71 on June 01, 2014, 04:07:36 PM
There are tradeoffs in life.  Focus only on basketball and we may become LSU, rank 135. I love basketball but the quality of the school's academics needs to be in the discussion. Maybe I am wrong but I think most go to school to improve their standard of living through I better education. Basketball is great for many reasons but ...

This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 06:38:23 PM
This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

Virginia Tech must have some smart folks in their administration.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 07:09:13 PM
Virginia Tech must have some smart folks in their administration.

Marquette  0 times on NCAA probation

Vagina Tech  5 times on NCAA probation in basketball and football alone.  Also on probation for other sports


Maybe the smarter folks are elsewhere, the ones that have kept MU as a program that has more than one NCAA appearance in 28 years like Vagina Tech.   Nevertheless, I expect Brent to do well with his new found sandbox and a leash as long as he likes.

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 01, 2014, 03:44:52 PM
Was this season part of Brent's plan to make us one of the elites?

This year's demise has been well chronicled. Not Buzz's best year, but his star player left unexpectedly (and unwisely) and had to be replaced by a walk on. His JC AA front court guy bailed before the season started and the guy he was fighting for a job had a terrible year. But in four years with his own guys Buzz had 2 Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, back to back 14-4 seasons (including a championship) in basketball's toughest conference. If that's not elite to you, fine, but back to back to back seasons like Buzz put together haven't happened at MU in almost 40 years. Believe me, when Wojo takes us into the second weekend 3 straight seasons no MU fan will be cheering louder than me. I'm not holding my breath, though.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 01, 2014, 08:09:25 PM
Marquette  0 times on NCAA probation

Vagina Tech  5 times on NCAA probation in basketball and football alone.  Also on probation for other sports


Maybe the smarter folks are elsewhere, the ones that have kept MU as a program that has more than one NCAA appearance in 28 years like Vagina Tech.   Nevertheless, I expect Brent to do well with his new found sandbox and a leash as long as he likes.

Times Teams coached by Buzz Williams on probation: 0

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 06:38:23 PM
This discussion got me interested in the relative academic rankings of Marquette and Virginia Tech.  In the national universities rankings, Marquette is 75 and VT is 69.  It seems logical to me to assume that VT was only able to lure Buzz by promising more enrollment flexibility for basketball players than Marquette was now willing to allow.  This would seem to imply that VT has a greater belief in the power of a top basketball program to generate donations and recruit top students.

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 08:10:34 PM
This year's demise has been well chronicled. Not Buzz's best year, but his star player left unexpectedly (and unwisely) and had to be replaced by a walk on. His JC AA front court guy bailed before the season started and the guy he was fighting for a job had a terrible year. But in four years with his own guys Buzz had 2 Sweet 16s, an Elite 8, back to back 14-4 seasons (including a championship) in basketball's toughest conference. If that's not elite to you, fine, but back to back to back seasons like Buzz put together haven't happened at MU in almost 40 years. Believe me, when Wojo takes us into the second weekend 3 straight seasons no MU fan will be cheering louder than me. I'm not holding my breath, though.

You make a lot of excuses for last year. The fact remains that we were the preseason favorite to win our league and Brent had an awful coaching year. McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited. Also, we didn't have to start the walk on, that was Brent's choice and IMO a pretty poor one. He constructed the roster last year and he has nobody to blame but himself for how things shook out. He was not the end all be all and I expect Wojo to return the team to a very high level.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 08:18:42 PM

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

Good point.

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 01, 2014, 08:26:17 PM
You make a lot of excuses for last year. The fact remains that we were the preseason favorite to win our league and Brent had an awful coaching year. McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited. Also, we didn't have to start the walk on, that was Brent's choice and IMO a pretty poor one. He constructed the roster last year and he has nobody to blame but himself for how things shook out. He was not the end all be all and I expect Wojo to return the team to a very high level.

And you seem to discount the fact that Buzz had the first run of three sweet sixteens (the last one an elite eight) since Al McGuire.

I don't want this to become a Buzz v. Wojo debate because with no Buzz, I think that Wojo was a very good hire.  But, I don't foresee three sweet sixteens in his first six years here, let alone three in a row with an elite eight as one of them.  And that's with Wojo starting with much more younger talent than Buzz did.   Buzz had the three amigos and Dwight Burke, but for only one year.  Wojo will have JJJ, Deonte and Dawson for (hopefully) three, Fischer for 2.5, and Taylor for two, and Duane Wilson and Cohen for (hopefully) four.

My problem is that I think people underestimate how much Buzz accomplished and the size of the challenge facing Wojo, not Wojo himself who was a very good get for Marquette.

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 01, 2014, 08:26:17 PM
McKay left in all likelihood, because Brent was dishonest with him when he was recruited.

Exhibit A of the typical front running, fair weather fan. When McKay left it was was good riddance, if he can't hack it, his bad. Buzz leaves and many hear pull the old 180, poor McKay, Buzz probably lied to him, etc. Could anything be more transparent or pathetic?

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 08:37:13 PM
And you seem to discount the fact that Buzz had the first run of three sweet sixteens (the last one an elite eight) since Al McGuire.

I don't want this to become a Buzz v. Wojo debate because with no Buzz, I think that Wojo was a very good hire.  But, I don't foresee three sweet sixteens in his first six years here, let alone three in a row with an elite eight as one of them.  And that's with Wojo starting with much more younger talent than Buzz did.   Buzz had the three amigos and Dwight Burke, but for only one year.  Wojo will have JJJ, Deonte and Dawson for (hopefully) three, Fischer for 2.5, and Taylor for two, and Duane Wilson and Cohen for (hopefully) four.

My problem is that I think people underestimate how much Buzz accomplished and the size of the challenge facing Wojo, not Wojo himself who was a very good get for Marquette.

+ one gazillion

Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on June 01, 2014, 08:26:17 PM
You make a lot of excuses for last year.

First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, well, they were idiots.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 08:54:00 PM
Exhibit A of the typical front running, fair weather fan. When McKay left it was was good riddance, if he can't hack it his bad. Buzz leaves and many hear pull the old 180, poor McKay, Buzz probably lied to him, etc. Could anything be more transparent or pathetic?

I never said good riddance to McKay when he left. I was actually dumbfounded and confused when I heard the news. You just lump everyone together when they don't agree with everything your man crush Brent does. That is what is really sad and pathetic. Do you think he has ever done anything wrong? Are you going to be able to function next year when he's not patrolling the sidelines?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

Lenny I back Bert up for the results he brought to MU, but I really wish I was as big of an idiot as guys like Jay Wright, JT3, etc. You know, those idiots that voted MU as the #1 team in the preseason BE poll. They know nothing about basketball.

And who do you put the blame on for only having Derrick, Jake, John D, and JJJ as our options at the 1/2? Who put the roster together?

Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 01, 2014, 06:08:33 PM
I love Al as much as the next warrior, but if he coached Marquette in today's age, he would not be viewed as the saint he is now. The pc standards, social media, and 24 hour news cycle would have made him a different coach or to be fired.

Aggie,

Respectfully, you never met Al. 

Al could pull it off. 

Would he adapt?  Yes. 

Would  he be Al?

YES!!!

Quote from: LittleMurs on June 01, 2014, 05:51:14 PM
Just to clarify about my posts in this thread, the words were not my own, but the words revealed to me by Big Jesuit during a visitation.  Awestruck as I was in his presence, I still questioned my sanity until the end of his visitation when I witnessed his ascension to what could only be described as the front door of the 'Lanche.

p.s. During the visitation I asked if I might be visited by St. Al, himself, to which Big Jesie replied; "St. Al never visits until after he's received his appearance check".

1) Someone went to Mass today!

2) So St. Peter is the eternal bouncer?

3) You got that part of St. Al absolutely right.

Look, on a more serious note, guys comparing the world Al coached in to today is like comparing a Kaypro to current PC (how many here know what a Kaypro is?). It was a different world then -- heck, Marquette wouldn't today tolerate the kind of students we were back then. We drank, we partied hard, we were totally irreverent and Al McGuire was nothing more than the public face of our university.

I don't know how many NatChamps Coach Wojo will bring us. There's always the possibility that he's another Mike Deane, or, God forbid, Bob Dukiet. But I doubt it. This guy is for real.

A lot of us would have liked Buzz to stay. Get over it. He's gone and won't be back. Neither will Tommy Crean have "MKE" on his bag tags anytime soon. We can whine about the reason why, scream about "woe is me," or we can start saving money to buy tickets so Coach Wojo and the team knows we care.

St. Al of Brookfield, basketball coach and national champion, deliver us from this malaise and intercede with our Savior to bring us the next national title we so richly deserve. Oh, and your check is in the mail!

Quote from: real chili 83 on June 01, 2014, 09:20:40 PM
Aggie,

Respectfully, you never met Al. 

Al could pull it off. 

Would he adapt?  Yes. 

Would  he be Al?

YES!!!

Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 08:18:42 PM

You are making the assumption that just because a university is ranked higher, that it is more difficult to get in to.

+1.

The other thing to keep in mind is size of university. It is very easy to "hide" athletes at large state institutions. If a student doesn't see any basketball players in classes it's not a big deal, they assume that they are in one of the 10 sections of the same class. It is easier to create degree plans with "lighter loads." Hell, I know of some universities where football players can take all of their classes online *cough* ALABAMA *cough* It is also easier to bury an athlete's records amongst all the others. FERPA is a great law but athletic departments often hide behind it.

Not all of these protections are available at Marquette. We all know the basketball players are comm majors. If they aren't showing up for class, people will notice it. We don't offer completely online degrees.

We will never consistently get the one and done type players. Duke is the only private school that has that ability and I think it will fade after Coach K retires. We however can consistently get top 100 kids with the occasional 5 star. That kind of recruiting will bring you plenty of success.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 02, 2014, 02:30:20 AM
Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

I miss Willie Wampum waving his tomahawk at the opposing team. Those were the good old days.

Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 02, 2014, 02:30:20 AM
Actually, I did meet Al. Several times. I was only a wee lad at the time but I still remember it clearly. And it was obviously long after his coaching days were over.

My point in making that post was that a lot of the things all did would have blown up in the media had they happened today. Cutting down the nets with a switchblade? The media would have had a field day. Going to war with the NCAA? You get fined for comments like that nowadays. Any administration would eventually be forced to reign a coach like that in. My proof is that coaches like Al no longer exist. The closest we get are the Coach Ks and the Rick Pitinos of the world and they are a far cry from Al's fire.

Al was smart enough to understand the political environment in which he operated.  He would have adjusted.

Quote from: wadesworld on June 01, 2014, 09:17:47 PM
Lenny I back Bert up for the results he brought to MU, but I really wish I was as big of an idiot as guys like Jay Wright, JT3, etc. You know, those idiots that voted MU as the #1 team in the preseason BE poll. They know nothing about basketball.

And who do you put the blame on for only having Derrick, Jake, John D, and JJJ as our options at the 1/2? Who put the roster together?

Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

What new? The Big East coaches have a history of being idiots when it comes to predicting results for Buzz's teams. After years of underrating us they finally overrated us.

As for blaming Buzz the GM for not having adequate replacements available for unexpected departures I'm on record in agreement with you, but comparing Blue's situation to the lottery picks that everyone knows will be leaving Kentucky every year? C'mon, man, that's being idiotic too.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

But but but preseason predictions are all the rage and rock solid.    ;)

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 08:20:46 AM
What new? The Big East coaches have a history of being idiots when it comes to predicting results for Buzz's teams. After years of underrating us they finally overrated us.

As for blaming Buzz the GM for not having adequate replacements available for unexpected departures I'm on record in agreement with you, but comparing Blue's situation to the lottery picks that everyone knows will be leaving Kentucky every year? C'mon, man, that's being idiotic too.

How about the preseason polls, not the coaches...those so reliable preseason polls that had MU in the top 15.  Idiots also?   

This is fun

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 01, 2014, 10:25:41 AM
I would argue that Marquette doesn't need a top 50 academic program to survive.  In fact I think it could make a big mistake trying to enter that market.  It does not have the resources right now to compete for the faculty and students that this would require.

This is an interesting concept.  I don't know the answer, but do you think MU is in a tough spot here.  They charge a lot for tuition, etc to attend.  Thus, if you are going to spend that kind of money, you want a quality school behind it.  75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however.  Thus, if MU tries to get to that level to justify the cost, can they do it with your comments in mind?

If they cannot, what is the alternative?  They certainly aren't going to charge less with the labor costs they have.  Tough spot.

Quote from: wadesworld on June 01, 2014, 09:17:47 PM
Blaming Blue's leaving early is lame. Roster turnover happens everywhere. Kentucky did alright with a lot of players leaving early last year. Why not blame Jamail Jones? Had he stuck around Buzz could've used him. He was a top 100 recruit who would've been an upper classman had he not transferred out of MU. Jamal Ferguson really screwed Bert over too last year, hey? Nope, Buzz did not put together a good roster. His own fault. Nobody else's.

Well there is quite a bit of difference between unexpectedly losing your top returning scorer and expectedly losing two players buried deep on the bench.

I completely agree with you that Buzz is primarily to blame mostly due to not having recruited adequate replacements, but it is hardly "lame" to say that Blue leaving early wasn't a significant factor.  From all accounts, Buzz didn't know Blue was leaving until April of last year, and since they were all full scholarship wise, probably hadn't spent a lot of time recruiting for additional 2013 players.  

The fact is that Blue unexpectedly leaving early was a significant reason why they underperformed last year.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2014, 08:36:55 AM
This is an interesting concept.  I don't know the answer, but do you think MU is in a tough spot here.  They charge a lot for tuition, etc to attend.  Thus, if you are going to spend that kind of money, you want a quality school behind it.  75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however.  Thus, if MU tries to get to that level to justify the cost, can they do it with your comments in mind?

If they cannot, what is the alternative?  They certainly aren't going to charge less with the labor costs they have.  Tough spot.

Think of all college bound high school students as a pyramid.  At the very top you have the elite students.  As you decrease in academic strength, you increase in the number of students at that level.  If you try to chase the top of that pyramid, you are going after a relatively smaller pool of students and you don't have a lot of the resources your competition has.

If you go after that "next level" you are still going after very good students, but you are playing in a larger pool with schools that have similar resources.  And I think MU can be very competitive here.

And don't say stuff like "75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however."

That's nonsensical.  Remember that most of what these ratings are based on are inputs (what the quality of the student body is like entering school.)  Your Marquette education will not fundamentally change either way.  And "fit" is more important than these rankings anyway.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

Lots of "idiots" apparently

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40285.25

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 02, 2014, 08:47:32 AM

Think of all college bound high school students as a pyramid.  At the very top you have the elite students.  As you decrease in academic strength, you increase in the number of students at that level.  If you try to chase the top of that pyramid, you are going after a relatively smaller pool of students and you don't have a lot of the resources your competition has.

If you go after that "next level" you are still going after very good students, but you are playing in a larger pool with schools that have similar resources.  And I think MU can be very competitive here.

And don't say stuff like "75th is not bad, in fact pretty good.  For that kind of money, I'd want to be top 50, however."

That's nonsensical.  Remember that most of what these ratings are based on are inputs (what the quality of the student body is like entering school.)  Your Marquette education will not fundamentally change either way.  And "fit" is more important than these rankings anyway.

I say it because many people rely on those rankings to pick their school.  Hell, MU has no problem touting the ranking whenever they get a chance.  If they didn't matter, people wouldn't pay attention to them.

100% in agreement that fit, etc is better, but I'm not going to pretend it isn't important or MU and every other school wouldn't try to play to the number to improve it, as well as hail it at every turn.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 01, 2014, 09:03:36 PM
First, I acknowledged that it wasn't Buzz's best year, but what you call excuses happen to be facts. As for the idiots who picked Marquette to win the Big East with Derrick, Jake, John D and JJJ our choices at the 1/2, wel, they were idiots.

I'm sure the idiot coaches at the other schools in the Big East couldn't even fathom/predict how awful Buzz's CHOSEN STARTING backcourt would be, and not to mention Buzz's insistence to not only stick with them after they performed awfully in nonconference play- but play them more minutes than any two players on the team.

Buzz parked a lot of talent on the bench all season long in Burton, Mayo, Dawson - that was his choice.  He doubled down on Derrick and Jake....thinking somehow he could polish that into a winning backcourt...and it failed...which was evident to virtually everyone early on...that if he didn't shake up backcourt early on...the season was going to be a bust...and it was a bust of EPIC proportions.  Buzz did both Derrick and Jake a disservice by pairing them together for max minutes.  You simply cannot pair two guys who are that limited together as a starting 30+ minute per game backcourt.

Love what Buzz did during his time at MU....but how he handled last season was beyond bizarre and reeked of either incredible arrogance, stubbornness or ego mania.  He faced his first year of adversity at MU and bailed - albeit - MU didn't call his bluff this time around and let him go.  The antics grew old.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 09:30:01 AM
I'm sure the idiot coaches at the other schools in the Big East couldn't even fathom/predict how awful Buzz's CHOSEN STARTING backcourt would be, and not to mention Buzz's insistence to not only stick with them after they performed awfully in nonconference play- but play them more minutes than any two players on the team.

Buzz parked a lot of talent on the bench all season long in Burton, Mayo, Dawson - that was his choice.  He doubled down on Derrick and Jake....thinking somehow he could polish that into a winning backcourt...and it failed...which was evident to virtually everyone early on...that if he didn't shake up backcourt early on...the season was going to be a bust...and it was a bust of EPIC proportions.  Buzz did both Derrick and Jake a disservice by pairing them together for max minutes.  You simply cannot pair two guys who are that limited together as a starting 30+ minute per game backcourt.

Love what Buzz did during his time at MU....but how he handled last season was beyond bizarre and reeked of either incredible arrogance, stubbornness or ego mania.  He faced his first year of adversity at MU and bailed - albeit - MU didn't call his bluff this time around and let him go.  The antics grew old.

Sweet Jesus Ners.  The season was over almost 3 months ago, and we have a new coach.  Do you think we don't know your opinion after almost 7.5 million posts.  I hope you are using cut and paste.  I would hate to think that your employer (even if that is YOU) is paying for retyping this over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2014, 08:33:35 AM
How about the preseason polls, not the coaches...those so reliable preseason polls that had MU in the top 15.  Idiots also?   

This is fun

What idiot ever said that Marquette was rated in the top 15 in the preseason polls? Oh, sorry, that would be you. They were actually ranked 17th in both. Indiana was ranked 24th and 28th. From that you extrapolated that MU's season was a disaster and IU met expectations.

You're right. This is fun.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2014, 09:13:14 AM
Lots of "idiots" apparently

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=40285.25

Wait. Our message board has guys who look through blue and gold colored glasses when assessing our talent and predicting our record? Stop the presses. I think you might be in line for a Pulitzer for investigative reporting.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 09:30:01 AM


Love what Buzz did during his time at MU....but how he handled last season was beyond bizarre and reeked of either incredible arrogance, stubbornness or ego mania.  He faced his first year of adversity at MU and bailed - albeit - MU didn't call his bluff this time around and let him go.  The antics grew old.

Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

One more thing - don't play poker. In the fantasy scenario that you describe Marquette absolutely called Buzz's bluff this time around, though it proved not to be a bluff.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

One more thing - don't play poker. In the fantasy scenario that you describe Marquette absolutely called Buzz's bluff this time around, though it proved not to be a bluff.

No, he was as arrogant, stubborn egomaniac even when he was winning - we just didn't care.

The problem with those kind of people is that they lose support real quick when things aren't going well. People see how that raging ego has seeped into his coaching.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

One more thing - don't play poker. In the fantasy scenario that you describe Marquette absolutely called Buzz's bluff this time around, though it proved not to be a bluff.

Right, this gets back to the whole eccentric vs crazy.

When Buzz was winning, we all loved the folksy goodness and some were predicting final 4's in MU's future. some people want to hand Buzz the keys to the kingdom (read about the LW & Pilarz backlash).  

Now, Buzz struggles for a season, ends up leaving, and some people like he's an idiot?

You don't go from eccentric genius to idiot in 12 months.

Maybe he wasn't as good as we thought 2-3 years ago, and maybe he's not as bad as some people are pretending now? Seems likely, right?  

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

I think there is a lesson to be learned here.  Don't slobber their knob when they are successful, only to label them every negative adjective under the sun when they aren't.  Just understand that they are human, fallible, and by and large replaceable.  

And for the love of God, don't fall for the "Marquette is an incredibly special place" shtick.  

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

One more thing - don't play poker. In the fantasy scenario that you describe Marquette absolutely called Buzz's bluff this time around, though it proved not to be a bluff.

Disagree on MU not calling Buzz's bluff - he did his dance with another school - as a leverage play, as he'd done the last 3 seasons..and this time around MU didn't sweeten the deal...make any concessions...but instead gave him a slight nudge to move along.  He landed at an OUTPOST of a program...worst job in the ACC.  A move of desperation.  Of course we know he put his name in the hat for Auburn too...yet Auburn opted for Bruce Pearl instead - odd that a guy out of coaching with a pretty sordid past..got the nod over Buzz.  Hmm.  Buzz couldn't even wait it out through the end of the NCAA tourney...just had to make a move...and in so doing missed out on openings at Tennessee, Mizzou, California....all jobs better than VaTech..

Quote from: brandx on June 02, 2014, 10:02:12 AM
No, he was as arrogant, stubborn egomaniac even when he was winning - we just didn't care.

The problem with those kind of people is that they lose support real quick when things aren't going well. People see how that raging ego has seeped into his coaching.

+1

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 02, 2014, 10:02:52 AM
Maybe he wasn't as good as we thought 2-3 years ago, and maybe he's not as bad as some people are pretending now? Seems likely, right?  

Your moderate tone is SICKENING!

Quote from: windyplayer on June 02, 2014, 10:19:46 AM
Your moderate tone is SICKENING!

I know, it's annoying.

I need more HOT SPORTS TAKES!

"(insert coach) is a genius! Sign him to a lifetime deal."

"(insert same coach) is past his prime. I'm glad he's gone!"

Fandom is a crazy place to live.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 10:07:21 AM
Disagree on MU not calling Buzz's bluff - he did his dance with another school - as a leverage play, as he'd done the last 3 seasons..and this time around MU didn't sweeten the deal...make any concessions...but instead gave him a slight nudge to move along.  He landed at an OUTPOST of a program...worst job in the ACC.  A move of desperation.  Of course we know he put his name in the hat for Auburn too...yet Auburn opted for Bruce Pearl instead - odd that a guy out of coaching with a pretty sordid past..got the nod over Buzz.  Hmm.  Buzz couldn't even wait it out through the end of the NCAA tourney...just had to make a move...and in so doing missed out on openings at Tennessee, Mizzou, California....all jobs better than VaTech..

There is a lot you have wrong here.  Buzz was not interested in VaTech simply as a leverage play.  By that point Marquette had already told him "no."  The relationship was gone.

And he took VaTech because he trusts his friend Mick Cronin and what he had to say about the AD.  I fully believe that if he even knew Tennessee, Cal, Mizzou, etc. would have come open, he still would have chosen Virginia Tech.  Look where Buzz has worked before?  Do you think he cares about the history and traditions of a basketball program?

No.  He wants to be comfortable.  He was no longer comfortable at MU.  He found comfort in VaTech.  I don't think he is the type of guy that lives life with a lot of regrets, and I doubt he has any right now either.

Quote from: brandx on June 02, 2014, 10:02:12 AM
No, he was as arrogant, stubborn egomaniac even when he was winning - we just didn't care.

The problem with those kind of people is that they lose support real quick when things aren't going well. People see how that raging ego has seeped into his coaching.

Maybe you were always "on" to whom you think Buzz was but I sure don't remember you sharing those thoughts with anyone. Much easier to see if they stumble so you can join the lynch mob once it becomes "popular".

Maybe this is hopelessly old fashioned, but to me the worst kind of fan is the frontrunner who slaps you on the back when you're winning and wants blood from your carcass when you lose or leave. If Al had left for the Bucks I would have still liked and admired him. Forever. Feel the same way about Buzz. And if TC had stayed here for 25 years I still would have thought he was a douche. Finding reasons to love a guy because he's "yours" and finding reasons to hate him because he's not doesn't get it for me.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 02, 2014, 10:30:58 AM

There is a lot you have wrong here.  Buzz was not interested in VaTech simply as a leverage play.  By that point Marquette had already told him "no."  The relationship was gone.

And he took VaTech because he trusts his friend Mick Cronin and what he had to say about the AD.  I fully believe that if he even knew Tennessee, Cal, Mizzou, etc. would have come open, he still would have chosen Virginia Tech.  Look where Buzz has worked before?  Do you think he cares about the history and traditions of a basketball program?

No.  He wants to be comfortable.  He was no longer comfortable at MU.  He found comfort in VaTech.  I don't think he is the type of guy that lives life with a lot of regrets, and I doubt he has any right now either.

Sanity - and perfectly said. Buzz never gave us any of that phony "I fell in love with MU watching them on TV as a kid" stuff. He was grateful for the trust Fr.Wild and Steve Cottingham placed in him and comfortable with how his values meshed with how they (Cottingham and Wild) represented Marquette's. He was decidedly not comfortable with new bosses who didn't hire him and were publically critical of him. The next three years were marked with lots of mixed messages from the administration that left everybody unhappy - a president and AD fired and a head coach wanting out.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 11:24:33 AM
Sanity - and perfectly said. Buzz never gave us any of that phony "I fell in love with MU watching them on TV as a kid" stuff. He was grateful for the trust Fr.Wild and Steve Cottingham placed in him and comfortable with how his values meshed with how they represented Marquette's. He was decidedly not comfortable with new bosses who didn't hire him and were publically critical of him. The next three years were marked with lots of mixed messages from the administration that left everybody unhappy - a president and AD fired and a head coach wanting out.

I think your being a little too kind here.

Buzz had plenty coaching schtick about loving MU. The coaches HAVE to do it. They are SELLING.

Buzz is no better or no worse than most in that respect.

I'll summarize what this has become

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=qKaMU83NCs-1yAS94oDgDQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZ2cXQbPMHvE&cd=7&ved=0CEQQtwIwBg&usg=AFQjCNG3OXjThAY_ZMYz8iqrpIrr3dqOaA (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&ei=qKaMU83NCs-1yAS94oDgDQ&url=http://m.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DZ2cXQbPMHvE&cd=7&ved=0CEQQtwIwBg&usg=AFQjCNG3OXjThAY_ZMYz8iqrpIrr3dqOaA)

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 02, 2014, 10:30:58 AM

There is a lot you have wrong here.  Buzz was not interested in VaTech simply as a leverage play.  By that point Marquette had already told him "no."  The relationship was gone.

And he took VaTech because he trusts his friend Mick Cronin and what he had to say about the AD.  I fully believe that if he even knew Tennessee, Cal, Mizzou, etc. would have come open, he still would have chosen Virginia Tech.  Look where Buzz has worked before?  Do you think he cares about the history and traditions of a basketball program?

No.  He wants to be comfortable.  He was no longer comfortable at MU.  He found comfort in VaTech.  I don't think he is the type of guy that lives life with a lot of regrets, and I doubt he has any right now either.

MU had already told Buzz "no," prior to him bringing up the VaTech gig?  What exactly did MU tell Buzz, "no" about from what your sources have told you?  "No," as in you are not welcome back to coach MU next season - so start looking for another job? 

As far as look where Buzz has worked historically??  His rise through the coaching ranks is normal, particularly for a guy who never played D-1 college ball.  Multiple stops, at obscure locations...but with each stop it being a slight step up from the previous one.  Buzz had very little leverage/cache beyond being a good recruiter, prior to his time at MU.  After his success at MU - which no one will deny - he sure as hell seemingly could have landed at a program much better than VaTech, no??  Then again, perhaps Buzz doesn't like the pressure of high expectations, and being expected to be a big time winner that would go along with being at a more high profile basketball school...?

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 09:30:01 AM
He faced his first year of adversity at MU and bailed - albeit - MU didn't call his bluff this time around and let him go.  The antics grew old.

BUZZ the Bailer...has a ring to it.

Adversity had him bail from UNO after one year.

"Adversity" (yes, very much in quotes) has him bail MU

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 11:58:00 AM
MU had already told Buzz "no," prior to him bringing up the VaTech gig?  What exactly did MU tell Buzz, "no" about from what your sources have told you?  "No," as in you are not welcome back to coach MU next season - so start looking for another job? 

As far as look where Buzz has worked historically??  His rise through the coaching ranks is normal, particularly for a guy who never played D-1 college ball.  Multiple stops, at obscure locations...but with each stop it being a slight step up from the previous one. Buzz had very little leverage/cache beyond being a good recruiter, prior to his time at MU.  After his success at MU - which no one will deny - he sure as hell seemingly could have landed at a program much better than VaTech, no??   Then again, perhaps Buzz doesn't like the pressure of high expectations, and being expected to be a big time winner that would go along with being at a more high profile basketball school...?

Over Buzz's tenure, you were his BIGGEST fan.

Now after sub-par season, you are saying stuff like this?

Why so quick to anoint and so quick to bail on the guy?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:55:01 AM
Wins big, he's a genius, our very own basketball and life lesson savant - and a great face for the program, charitable, indefatigable. A guy of great character.

One down year and he's an arrogant, stubborn egomaniac.

Pardon me if I don't find this logical.

One more thing - don't play poker. In the fantasy scenario that you describe Marquette absolutely called Buzz's bluff this time around, though it proved not to be a bluff.

You think one year he acted like this?  How close are you to the program Lenny?  You know that isn't true and you know the egomaniac crap along with other stuff has been going for a number of years internally.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 02, 2014, 12:27:36 PM
Over Buzz's tenure, you were his BIGGEST fan.

Now after sub-par season, you are saying stuff like this?

Why so quick to anoint and so quick to bail on the guy?

Character revealed...that's why....preaches and demands toughness out of his players...and then exhibits little to none himself.  Hypocrisy isn't an attractive quality in anyone.  To add further explanation...I'll give a Plus 1 to Chicos below:

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 02, 2014, 12:27:13 PM
BUZZ the Bailer...has a ring to it.

Adversity had him bail from UNO after one year.

"Adversity" (yes, very much in quotes) has him bail MU

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
Character revealed...that's why....preaches and demands toughness out of his players...and then exhibits little to none himself.  Hypocrisy isn't an attractive quality in anyone. 

This is what is most galling about Bert.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 11:58:00 AM
MU had already told Buzz "no," prior to him bringing up the VaTech gig?  What exactly did MU tell Buzz, "no" about from what your sources have told you?  "No," as in you are not welcome back to coach MU next season - so start looking for another job?

Buzz was never told to look for another job.  Buzz wanted some changes - changes that he thought he would get from the "old" administration returning.  When he didn't get them, he came to the conclusion that he no longer wanted to be here...and/or was not wanted.

If Buzz decided to stick it out for another year, he would still be at Marquette.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 11:58:00 AM
After his success at MU - which no one will deny - he sure as hell seemingly could have landed at a program much better than VaTech, no??  Then again, perhaps Buzz doesn't like the pressure of high expectations, and being expected to be a big time winner that would go along with being at a more high profile basketball school...?

He told you he danced to a different drummer. He told you that it was about relationships and happiness, not geography or a school's basketball profile. You and most others didn't listen. You obsessed over him leaving for the pretty girl (Texas). I guess some guys are too thick to think outside the box regarding career choices, too self important and insecure to choose happy over other's perception of success.

I don't know all the details that eventually turned happy into miserable for Buzz at MU. And I'm not suggesting that Buzz shouldn't take some responsibility for that unhappiness. But the simple fact is this: when the relationships that Buzz held dear and the dynamic at Marquette that he loved were severed or changed he became unhappy. And when he looked around, he sought his best friend's advice about where he was most likely to find the relationships to make happy possible again. If you were ever actually listening to him you wouldn't have been all that surprised.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 01:19:55 PM
He told you he danced to a different drummer. He told you that it was about relationships and happiness, not geography or a school's basketball profile. You and most others didn't listen. You obsessed over him leaving for the pretty girl (Texas). I guess some guys are too thick to think outside the box regarding career choices, too self important and insecure to choose happy over other's perception of success.

I don't know all the details that eventually turned happy into miserable for Buzz at MU. And I'm not suggesting that Buzz shouldn't take some responsibility for that unhappiness. But the simple fact is this: when the relationships that Buzz held dear and the dynamic at Marquette that he loved were severed or changed he became unhappy. And when he looked around, he sought his best friend's advice about where he was most likely to find the relationships to make happy possible again. If you were ever actually listening to him you wouldn't have been all that surprised.

Exactly. 

Ners, you were the one that was openly pissed that LW and the new administration was "messing with Buzz's happy." 

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36527.msg461631#msg461631

So now that his happy has been messed with, and he leaves, he is an arrogant, stubborn, egomaniac.  HE DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU THOUGHT HE WOULD DO!!!

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 12:52:23 PM
Character revealed...that's why....preaches and demands toughness out of his players...and then exhibits little to none himself.  Hypocrisy isn't an attractive quality in anyone.  To add further explanation...I'll give a Plus 1 to Chicos below:

I guess that's fair. It's part of being a fan, I suppose.

To be honest, I just don't fall in love with coaches anymore.

I know it's their job to sell EVERYBODY on their program, so I'm not surprised that they using a schtick or routine. 

Conversely, when a coach decides to leave, I don't get my feelings hurt either.

Maybe I need to be more emotional about this stuff.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 02, 2014, 01:54:34 PM
I guess that's fair. It's part of being a fan, I suppose.

To be honest, I just don't fall in love with coaches anymore.

I know it's their job to sell EVERYBODY on their program, so I'm not surprised that they using a schtick or routine. 

Conversely, when a coach decides to leave, I don't get my feelings hurt either.

This is pretty much where I stand as well. 

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 02, 2014, 01:54:34 PM
I guess that's fair. It's part of being a fan, I suppose.

To be honest, I just don't fall in love with coaches anymore.

I know it's their job to sell EVERYBODY on their program, so I'm not surprised that they using a schtick or routine. 

Conversely, when a coach decides to leave, I don't get my feelings hurt either.

Maybe I need to be more emotional about this stuff.

Smart man

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on June 02, 2014, 01:54:34 PM
I guess that's fair. It's part of being a fan, I suppose.

To be honest, I just don't fall in love with coaches anymore.

I know it's their job to sell EVERYBODY on their program, so I'm not surprised that they using a schtick or routine. 

Conversely, when a coach decides to leave, I don't get my feelings hurt either.

Maybe I need to be more emotional about this stuff.

How you handle your emotions is your business. I will not judge that.

If, however, if you're asserting that everyone in coaching (or any other profession) is alike, the same, no better, no worse (the Chico Principle), I will judge that. You're way too young to be that cynical - you'll never get your heart broken but you'll never be happy either.

I don't need a basketball coach to say nice things about my alma mater to make me happy.  Want to make me happy?  Just win basketball games and represent the university well in the process.  That's it.

I fall in love with coaches because they are my teams coach. They are men providing valuable service to my alma mater and providing me with a great deal of entertainment. I support,even during rough patches because in my mind that is a fans job. When you go down fifteen in the second half you don't start to boo, you cheer louder.

When coaches leave, as most do, they are no longer a part of my team. Thank them for their service and never give them a second thought. Start loving the next guy.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 03:32:55 PM
How you handle your emotions is your business. I will not judge that.

If, however, if you're asserting that everyone in coaching (or any other profession) is alike, the same, no better, no worse (the Chico Principle), I will judge that. You're way too young to be that cynical - you'll never get your heart broken but you'll never be happy either.

Quite to contrary, I've said often that they aren't all the same.  Yes, they can all ultimately act the way they do because it is part of their job to schmooze, put on the schtick, etc, but let's not let their actions of diction to fanbases that want to hear what they want to hear be somehow equivocated into who they really are behind the words.  I expect the coaches of my teams to do exactly what Buzz did or what any other coach does.  Whether one links what they say to how long they will be here, well that's a fool's device.  Messing with happy and all that bullshyte, that plays wonderful when only one person gets to decide what happy is and can then blame the rest of the world when his perceived definition of it is tampered with.

There are certain functions of one's job in these types of professions where coach speak is what it is, and from that perspective the similarities are there for all to see.  That doesn't mean at their core that they are, though unfortunately far too many have similar traits.  This is why I have brought up Mike Scioscia here often as someone I worked with that does not exude those traits.  Joe Madden is another.  So no, not all of them are alike, but too many are.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 03:32:55 PM
How you handle your emotions is your business. I will not judge that.

If, however, if you're asserting that everyone in coaching (or any other profession) is alike, the same, no better, no worse (the Chico Principle), I will judge that. You're way too young to be that cynical - you'll never get your heart broken but you'll never be happy either.

I hear ya.

I guess I'm just fighting the meatball "Our school/coach is different!" mentality.

Are all coaches the same? No, obviously not.

But, every coach is going to SELL his/her program. They ALL do it.

What coach said this:
"I love it here at (insert school). We have a unique culture and a great history. We're going to do our best to make the alumni proud, and we're going to do it the right way, on and off the field.
We're going to have high standards for our kids, and we're going to push them farther than they ever thought possible. The real value is the degree that they earn, and I'm going to make sure they all get their degree because that's what (insert school) has always been about... dating all the way back to (insert famous former coach)."


Want a hint?: Nobody. I just made it up. But, it's hard to tell, right?

Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

My expectations are that when a coach is hired he will last 5 years. While I do not like them leaving Crean lasted 9 years and Buzz 6 years. I expect Wojo to be here 5 years and he will either be fired or take the Duke job.

Quote from: bilsu on June 02, 2014, 05:42:47 PM
My expectations are that when a coach is hired he will last 5 years. While I do not like them leaving Crean lasted 9 years and Buzz 6 years. I expect Wojo to be here 5 years and he will either be fired or take the Duke job.

I bet he's here longer and ends up going somewhere other than Duke.

Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2014, 06:11:27 PM
I bet he's here longer and ends up going somewhere other than Duke.

Because of the lack of success of some of the Duke assistants, I think the path is clear for Collins or Wojo IF they have success the next 3 - 5 years.

Quote from: brandx on June 02, 2014, 06:32:39 PM
Because of the lack of success of some of the Duke assistants, I think the path is clear for Collins or Wojo IF they have success the next 3 - 5 years.

I believe ESPN just handicapped the odds a couple days ago and Tommy Amaker is the favorite right now.

Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on June 02, 2014, 01:37:07 PM

Exactly. 

Ners, you were the one that was openly pissed that LW and the new administration was "messing with Buzz's happy." 

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=36527.msg461631#msg461631

So now that his happy has been messed with, and he leaves, he is an arrogant, stubborn, egomaniac.  HE DID EXACTLY WHAT YOU THOUGHT HE WOULD DO!!!

Yes Sultan....and Lenny...Here's my issue:  Buzz WON the power struggle with Larry.  I stand by my comments on Larry, and how he treated Buzz/commented on him to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel - thought it was terrible judgement 90 days on the job to essentially bash the cash cow of your department.  

My issue with Buzz is that he ultimately got what he wanted - rid of Larry, Wild the President at the time of his hire back in charge of the university, albeit if only temporarily...and an A.D. in Bill Cords who Kevin O'Neill flat out told Buzz was a very good A.D. to work under..and has a nice legacy at MU.  No, Cords wasn't Cottingham...but he sure as hell wasn't Larry Williams.

So...the landscape at MU returned a lot closer to Buzz's "happy" than it had been the 2 prior years when he CHOSE to stay at MU...but he then bolts for Va Tech?  And particularly if Sultan, as you say..Buzz wasn't encouraged to leave...it displays poor character and hypocrisy on Buzz's part - that at the first season and time of adversity..and some fans grumbling....he bails...to an outpost of a program.  It truly doesn't add up...that Buzz entirely left on his own volition...or didn't sense that he wasn't wanted by Wild or Cords any longer.  Perhaps they weren't going to fire Buzz...but they certainly let him know he wasn't going to get his way with everything...and Buzz picked up his ball and went to VaTech.

Quote from: bilsu on June 02, 2014, 05:42:47 PM
My expectations are that when a coach is hired he will last 5 years. While I do not like them leaving Crean lasted 9 years and Buzz 6 years. I expect Wojo to be here 5 years and he will either be fired or take the Duke job.

I don't care if he Coach K says "I wanna be here for five more years" or whatever the number was. I think that was a dropped quote to easy the fears of kids he will be recruiting in the upcoming season. I think he is gone within 3.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 06:40:53 PM
Yes Sultan....and Lenny...Here's my issue:  Buzz WON the power struggle with Larry.  I stand by my comments on Larry, and how he treated Buzz/commented on him to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel - thought it was terrible judgement 90 days on the job to essentially bash the cash cow of your department.  

My issue with Buzz is that he ultimately got what he wanted - rid of Larry, Wild the President at the time of his hire back in charge of the university, albeit if only temporarily...and an A.D. in Bill Cords who Kevin O'Neill flat out told Buzz was a very good A.D. to work under..and has a nice legacy at MU.  No, Cords wasn't Cottingham...but he sure as hell wasn't Larry Williams.

So...the landscape at MU returned a lot closer to Buzz's "happy" than it had been the 2 prior years when he CHOSE to stay at MU...but he then bolts for Va Tech?  And particularly if Sultan, as you say..Buzz wasn't encouraged to leave...it displays poor character and hypocrisy on Buzz's part - that at the first season and time of adversity..and some fans grumbling....he bails...to an outpost of a program.  It truly doesn't add up...that Buzz entirely left on his own volition...or didn't sense that he wasn't wanted by Wild or Cords any longer.  Perhaps they weren't going to fire Buzz...but they certainly let him know he wasn't going to get his way with everything...and Buzz picked up his ball and went to VaTech.

He's gone. Get over it.

St. Al of Brookfield, pray for us.... And the check is in the mail!

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 02, 2014, 06:48:33 PM
He's gone. Get over it.

St. Al of Brookfield, pray for us.... And the check is in the mail!

I'm totally over Buzz leaving...that's been the point of my posts since he left.  A few others are having a hard time letting go.  After last season....glad Buzz is gone.  It was beyond bizarre.

Quote from: Ners on June 02, 2014, 06:40:53 PM
Perhaps they weren't going to fire Buzz...but they certainly let him know he wasn't going to get his way with everything...and Buzz picked up his ball and went to VaTech.

I agree with that.  But that doesn't make him stubborn or arrogant.  Just a guy who wanted a new job.  Nothing really wrong with that.

Quote from: brandx on June 02, 2014, 06:32:39 PM
Because of the lack of success of some of the Duke assistants, I think the path is clear for Collins or Wojo IF they have success the next 3 - 5 years.

The only thing Wojo has going for him is he was the assistant coach for Coach K. Duke is not Marquette. Duke is a blue blood, top 5 program. Every single coach in the country with the exception of maybe 5 will ditch everything in a second to go there. They will be able to choose whoever they want. If Wojo's best season is, say, a Sweet 16 appearance (not unreasonable to think that's the best season he has in the next 3-5 years at MU) do you really think Duke's going to be throwing the kitchen sink at him? I have my doubts, but maybe I'm wrong.

Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2014, 07:50:22 PM
The only thing Wojo has going for him is he was the assistant coach for Coach K. Duke is not Marquette. Duke is a blue blood, top 5 program. Every single coach in the country with the exception of maybe 5 will ditch everything in a second to go there. They will be able to choose however they want. If Wojo's best season is, say, a Sweet 16 appearance (not unreasonable to think that's the best season he has in the next 3-5 years at MU) do you really think Duke's going to be throwing the kitchen sink at him? I have my doubts, but maybe I'm wrong.

I have said it before and I will say it again and again and again. The only way Coach Wojo leaves is if Duke offers.

The only way Duke offers is if Coach Wojo wins another natchap and hangs a banner next to the 1977 edition.

I actually think when Coach Wojo settles in, he'll like it. His family will like it here and he will be the greatest Milwaukeean of Polish descent since Clement Zablocki.

Think of what it will mean for the Polish Community -- Marquette wins a national championship with a Head Coach of Polish Descent. He'll never buy another meal in town again!

Quote from: dgies9156 on June 02, 2014, 09:20:08 PM
I have said it before and I will say it again and again and again. The only way Coach Wojo leaves is if Duke offers.

The only way Duke offers is if Coach Wojo wins another natchap and hangs a banner next to the 1977 edition.

I actually think when Coach Wojo settles in, he'll like it. His family will like it here and he will be the greatest Milwaukeean of Polish descent since Clement Zablocki.

Think of what it will mean for the Polish Community -- Marquette wins a national championship with a Head Coach of Polish Descent. He'll never buy another meal in town again!

Just like Buzz was only going to leave for Texas and Crean was only going to leave for Michigan State.

Wojo will move on.  But it won't be to Duke.

Brad Stevens will be the next Duke coach, unless the Celtics end up with Kevin love and then sign Kevin Durant next offseason.

Quote from: wadesworld on June 02, 2014, 07:50:22 PM
The only thing Wojo has going for him is he was the assistant coach for Coach K. Duke is not Marquette. Duke is a blue blood, top 5 program. Every single coach in the country with the exception of maybe 5 will ditch everything in a second to go there. They will be able to choose whoever they want. If Wojo's best season is, say, a Sweet 16 appearance (not unreasonable to think that's the best season he has in the next 3-5 years at MU) do you really think Duke's going to be throwing the kitchen sink at him? I have my doubts, but maybe I'm wrong.

I agree with what you say. One good year won't get him the Duke job. But I think keeping MU where Buzz had it (discounting last year) will.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 02, 2014, 09:38:45 AM
What idiot ever said that Marquette was rated in the top 15 in the preseason polls? Oh, sorry, that would be you. They were actually ranked 17th in both. Indiana was ranked 24th and 28th. From that you extrapolated that MU's season was a disaster and IU met expectations.

You're right. This is fun.

Sorry, as you know I don't pay attention to preseason polls like you.  17th, 15th...those idiots.  LOL. 

And no, I extrapolated that MU was picked to win the Big East and finished 6th.  IU was picked to finish 6th and finished 8th....thus much closer to expectations.  Please, try to keep up.

This is fun