I'm happier it is Wojo than Martin, but either way was hoping for an impact hire....something MU historically hasn't been able to do at the time of the hiring. Fortunately, MU has been able to identify coaches through the years that have been impactful.
Let's hope that is the case here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:30:53 AM
I'm happier it is Wojo than Martin, but either way was hoping for an impact hire....something MU historically hasn't been able to do at the time of the hiring. Fortunately, MU has been able to identify coaches through the years that have been impactful.
Let's hope that is the case here.
The young, upcoming assistant model has worked very well for Marquette for the past 20+ years .... certainly better than the "established coach" model.
Let's hope the tradition continues.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2014, 10:32:12 AM
The young, upcoming assistant model has worked very well for Marquette for the past 20+ years .... certainly better than the "established coach" model.
Let's hope the tradition continues.
Al McGuire was a head coach....
It's peeing in the ocean in terms of the "impact hire", but at least it's not the negative impact hire Martin or Wardle would have been.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:30:53 AM
I'm happier it is Wojo than Martin, but either way was hoping for an impact hire....something MU historically hasn't been able to do at the time of the hiring. Fortunately, MU has been able to identify coaches through the years that have been impactful.
Let's hope that is the case here.
at this point we've gotta hope the formula still works ... we were underwhelmed with the news that Buzz was hired as well
This search took 9 days and MU could have had Howland and Martin (who pulled his own name out when he realized MU was not going to pick him).
MU had choices and did not have to settle (after Shaka) and took who they thought was the best option.
Time will tell if it works. But as far as the process goes, it was do correctly
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:36:41 AM
Al McGuire was a head coach....
In the past 20 years?
Though I'm guessing a guy who went 13-39 his last two seasons at Belmont and never made a postseason tourney (NIT or NCAA) might not have been deemed an IMPACT HIRE.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2014, 10:41:39 AM
This search took 9 days and MU could have had Howland and Martin (who pulled his own name out when he realized MU was not going to pick him).
MU had choices and did not have to settle (after Shaka) and took who they thought was the best option.
Time will tell if it works. But as far as the process goes, it was do correctly
This should be stickied at the top of the board.
And to clarify - when did MU brass ever say they were looking for an "impact hire" - we heard it from Goose - and all took it like that was spewed from Cords
I can't stand Duke and Wojo was one of my least favorite college players ever. However, I'd much rather get what is ultimately the best fit rather than what is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" from a press conference point of view. If Wojo is a better fit than Howland or Marshall, then who cares whether or not it is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" on day 1?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on April 01, 2014, 10:48:27 AM
I can't stand Duke and Wojo was one of my least favorite college players ever. However, I'd much rather get what is ultimately the best fit rather than what is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" from a press conference point of view. If Wojo is a better fit than Howland or Marshall, then who cares whether or not it is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" on day 1?
+1
Win the games, not the press conference - though I bet he comes across great when one is held
Quote from: Jajuannaman on April 01, 2014, 10:48:27 AM
I can't stand Duke and Wojo was one of my least favorite college players ever. However, I'd much rather get what is ultimately the best fit rather than what is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" from a press conference point of view. If Wojo is a better fit than Howland or Marshall, then who cares whether or not it is perceived to be an "Impact Hire" on day 1?
We will never know.
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2014, 10:42:20 AM
In the past 20 years?
Though I'm guessing a guy who went 13-39 his last two seasons at Belmont and never made a postseason tourney (NIT or NCAA) might not have been deemed an IMPACT HIRE.
In the past 20 years, nope....though if you think hiring a guy from St. Peter's in July because Rick killed us is the answer either, we would disagree.
Hope this works out. I'm sure it will, in which case he will leave and we do this all again.
Quote from: chapman on April 01, 2014, 10:39:48 AM
It's peeing in the ocean in terms of the "impact hire", but at least it's not the negative impact hire Martin or Wardle would have been.
True.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:52:57 AM
In the past 20 years, nope....though if you think hiring a guy from St. Peter's in July because Rick killed us is the answer either, we would disagree.
Hope this works out. I'm sure it will, in which case he will leave and we do this all again.
Anyone who has success at MU will leave eventually. Sorry to disappoint.
QuoteAl McGuire was a head coach....
So was Mike Dean...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:51:10 AM
We will never know.
So then what's the point of kvetching about day 1 impact?
I guess it depends on how you define "Impact Hire". I view these things like NFL drafts. The "experts" will give the hire a grade, but you really don't know if it was Impactful for 3-4 years. Hopefully it turns out to be.
That being said, I'm with Chicos. I was hoping (expecting ?) we could lure a proven and successful head coach. Apparently, not to be (again).
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2014, 10:58:23 AM
Anyone who has success at MU will leave eventually. Sorry to disappoint.
Yup....speaks volumes about us....disappointing, but 100% true.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:36:41 AM
Al McGuire was a head coach....
So was Buzz. But neither were "established"
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:09:38 AM
Yup....speaks volumes about us....disappointing, but 100% true.
Of course it is... right now. But who says it always has to be that way?
Quote from: Ruby on April 01, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
So was Mike Dean...
So was Thad Matta, Tony Bennett, Bill Self, Bo Ryan, Jon Beiline, etc, etc.
I think the more important way to analyze this is MU has not been able to successfully target good existing head coaches from lower levels or on equal levels. Either because they can't get anyone to come to MU from a high major program, or they don't do a good job of convincing the head coaches from a lower level.
Whereas most of the hires done by programs that we think we are equal to or even better, do identify those head coaches at lower levels and they do just fine for their programs.
MU is promote assistant U until proven otherwise. Much more risky. So far it has worked.
Quote from: cnse70 on April 01, 2014, 11:09:20 AM
I guess it depends on how you define "Impact Hire". I view these things like NFL drafts. The "experts" will give the hire a grade, but you really don't know if it was Impactful for 3-4 years. Hopefully it turns out to be.
That being said, I'm with Chicos. I was hoping (expecting ?) we could lure a proven and successful head coach. Apparently, not to be (again).
Which would mean he was coming from a program lower on the ladder... which would mean he would be looking to move up again if successful at MU... which would have everybody crying that we are a steppingstone... which would mean...oops, go back to beginning of paragraph and repeat.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:13:32 AM
So was Thad Matta, Tony Bennett, Bill Self, Bo Ryan, Jon Beiline, etc, etc.
I think the more important way to analyze this is MU has not been able to successfully target good existing head coaches from lower levels or on equal levels. Either because they can't get anyone to come to MU from a high major program, or they don't do a good job of convincing the head coaches from a lower level.
Or, after the Bob Dukiet/Mike Deane flops, they're not interested in convincing the head coaches from a lower level?
QuoteMU is promote assistant U until proven otherwise. Much more risky. So far it has worked.
Where's the evidence that it's "much more risky?"
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2014, 11:21:54 AM
Or, after the Bob Dukiet/Mike Deane flops, they're not interested in convincing the head coaches from a lower level?
Where's the evidence that it's "much more risky?"
Bob Dukiet flop was because it was a hire in July after Rick left us high and dry. Mike Deane...not a flop, not great either. He did more than Cuonzo Martin did and you were backing Martin. ;)
It's riskier because its an unknown quantity. Doesn't mean it won't work out, just riskier. No different than hiring a VP, a CEO, etc. Just common sense. Experience is an asset, you pay for experience. Doesn't mean experience works out always either, but we're just talking common sense here.
Look at the last 50 hires by major DI programs....schools above or equal to Marquette. From what I can tell, 42 of them were existing head coaches and not assistants. There's a reason.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:33:30 AM
Look at the last 50 hires by major DI programs....schools above or equal to Marquette. From what I can tell, 42 of them were existing head coaches and not assistants. There's a reason.
Do you have this list? I'm running them through my head, but I know i'm missing a ton of them.
Quote from: LAZER on April 01, 2014, 11:35:57 AM
Do you have this list? I'm running them through my head, but I know i'm missing a ton of them.
Sure, will post a little later....getting on Gondola with the kids to hit the powder in 5 minutes.
Quote from: Ruby on April 01, 2014, 10:59:56 AM
So was Mike Dean...
You're Damn Right I Was!!! It's Deane..... by the way.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:33:30 AM
Bob Dukiet flop was because it was a hire in July after Rick left us high and dry. Mike Deane...not a flop, not great either. He did more than Cuonzo Martin did and you were backing Martin. ;)
It's riskier because its an unknown quantity. Doesn't mean it won't work out, just riskier. No different than hiring a VP, a CEO, etc. Just common sense. Experience is an asset, you pay for experience. Doesn't mean experience works out always either, but we're just talking common sense here.
Look at the last 50 hires by major DI programs....schools above or equal to Marquette. From what I can tell, 42 of them were existing head coaches and not assistants. There's a reason.
So you're saying Wardle should have been the pick? I think when Wojo leaves in 5 years it will be Wardle time. I always thought Travis Diener would be a great Marquette coach when his playing career is done. I do think continuity is more important to the program than hiring a hungry up and coming assistant. I enjoy the success we've had the past 12 years but looking for a coach every 5 years is getting old. You will lose a lot of fans that way and create uncertainty with recruits.
Quote from: Heisenberg on April 01, 2014, 10:41:39 AM
Time will tell if it works. But as far as the process goes, it was do correctly
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:33:30 AM
Bob Dukiet flop was because it was a hire in July after Rick left us high and dry. Mike Deane...not a flop, not great either. He did more than Cuonzo Martin did and you were backing Martin. ;)
Wasn't backing Martin - actually prefer the guy we got and would have preferred Howland - just disputed some of the erroneous information about him being posted here (i.e. he never recruited a top 100 player, etc.).
And yeah, Deane was a huge flop. Team got worse every year. Set the program way back.
QuoteIt's riskier because its an unknown quantity. Doesn't mean it won't work out, just riskier. No different than hiring a VP, a CEO, etc. Just common sense.
Common sense is usually backed by facts. Where are the facts that say hiring a coach from a mid-major or lower program is safer than hiring a top assistant from a top program?
Quote
Look at the last 50 hires by major DI programs....schools above or equal to Marquette. From what I can tell, 42 of them were existing head coaches and not assistants. There's a reason.
Because something is done more commonly doesn't mean it's better or more successful. Where's the data that says it's more successful?
Quote from: Pakuni on April 01, 2014, 11:44:52 AM
Because something is done more commonly doesn't mean it's better or more successful. Where's the data that says it's more successful?
I really can't wait to see that list, personally. Not so much because of the 50 schools Chicos thinks are better than Marquette, but because I want to see who these 42 guys are (and the success they've had).
Not an impact hire by my definition. That said, I respect the process this time around and hope Wojo knocks it out of the park. MU fan my whole life and not changing that it over this hire.
I'm OK with this. Impact? Meh. I do know that anybody with head coaching experience who came here was going to leave the fanbase equally divided. Their track record would be parsed over like a television show crime scene, focusing only on the negative to show..... well, the same crap people are whining about with the Wojo hire. This board just likes to kvetch.
Time will tell if this is a good short term selection but clearly we will be starting all over again in a few years. If he pans out another stepping stone, if he doesn't we will eventually figure that out. Either way no point in investing a lot of emotional connection here. Good luck to him. I have already lowered my expections.
What, did all that "influencing" go the wrong way for you?
Quote from: Class71 on April 01, 2014, 12:43:40 PM
Time will tell if this is a good short term selection but clearly we will be starting all over again in a few years. If he pans out another stepping stone, if he doesn't we will eventually figure that out. Either way no point in investing a lot of emotional connection here. Good luck to him. I have already lowered my expections.
"Risk" is really the key word.
An "impact hire" is someone who is a name; someone who has experience winning; someone who is a head coach; someone that doesn't carry nearly the amount of risk.
Assistant U, or Marquette, HAS done great with the assistant-model. The key is, this model has a ton more "risk" than the "impact hire". This time, I thought MU was at a place where they could make an impact hire. They tried once - Shaka - and then moved on. Kudos to them for at least trying. But non-kudos to them for quitting there. I dont' know who else they talked too, but...Chicos is right. We are Assistant U from here out. Just a fact.
Only hope is that...again...it works out for us in the long run.
That's the rub w/Wojo. Great pedigree...but after our success, man...you sure thought we'd have gotten a proven commodity.
I hope he can recruit! as Al said in a interview, Duke doesn't recruit it chooses
From an outside perspective I was hoping Marquette would make a splash with the hire. In my mind the conference was embarrassed when Buzz left one of our best programs for a clearly inferior program. I felt the only way to rectify this would be to hire a head coach from a major program away. It would've been really sweet to hire a coach away from the ACC, but pretty much all their coaches suck or are at places they wouldn't leave for Marquette: Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Pitt. Shaka would've been a huge victory for the conference.
Now in the long run what really matters is if he's successful and wins games. But in my opinion we lost the PR battle. At this point there's nothing to do but to support him and hope for the best.
Quote from: Goose on April 01, 2014, 12:17:38 PM
Not an impact hire by my definition. That said, I respect the process this time around and hope Wojo knocks it out of the park. MU fan my whole life and not changing that it over this hire.
Same same.
This is where I am too. Let's see where this goes and I will be watching closely with high hopes but reasonable expectations ... (which I suppose makes the hire a good one in my case).
If it had been Howland (which was my choice), I would have high hopes and probably unreasonable expectations.
In balance, good on MU.
Step one is nailing down Hill.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 11:33:30 AM
Bob Dukiet flop was because it was a hire in July after Rick left us high and dry.
Bob Dukiet was a flop. Rick left us after nearly every alum, fan and booster wanted to run him out of town and everyone was glad he left.
FIFY
Quote from: Shack on April 01, 2014, 11:41:53 AM
So you're saying Wardle should have been the pick? I think when Wojo leaves in 5 years it will be Wardle time. I always thought Travis Diener would be a great Marquette coach when his playing career is done. I do think continuity is more important to the program than hiring a hungry up and coming assistant. I enjoy the success we've had the past 12 years but looking for a coach every 5 years is getting old. You will lose a lot of fans that way and create uncertainty with recruits.
Nope, never said Wardle would be the pick. If you're going to hire a mid major coach, make damn sure he's accomplished something. Brian hasn't yet. So no, I would not signup for Brian.
I'm just disappointed we keep going through assistants, but when we are rebuffed by every top coach we go after, this is the deal. Unfortunately, that does mean we get to go through this every 5 years or so. And yes, it is getting old but I don't see MU ever being able to swing a major coach to come over which means it is either assistant coaches from top programs or trying to get a quality head coach from a mid major.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 06:53:26 PM
Nope, never said Wardle would be the pick. If you're going to hire a mid major coach, make damn sure he's accomplished something. Brian hasn't yet. So no, I would not signup for Brian.
I'm just disappointed we keep going through assistants, but when we are rebuffed by every top coach we go after, this is the deal. Unfortunately, that does mean we get to go through this every 5 years or so. And yes, it is getting old but I don't see MU ever being able to swing a major coach to come over which means it is either assistant coaches from top programs or trying to get a quality head coach from a mid major.
I think we said no to Counzo and Howland. Obviously Shaka said no to us. I really think Wojo was our 2nd choice. This hire is growing on me.
Think this hire is an impact in the making. I have high hopes for Wojo.
Miles Simon said on ESPN during the NIT between games, that Wojo is a homerun hire for Marquette.
If he keeps Hill and gets Stone, he's an impact hire.
Quote from: mechaghidorah on April 01, 2014, 08:57:03 PM
If he keeps Hill and gets Stone, he's an impact hire.
After reading the Steve Taylor thread I believe we have the right guy if he is able to keep every returning player who was going to transfer had Buzz stayed. I would'nt be surprised to see a couple of recruits who said no to MU & Buzz reconsider MU.
Quote from: The Lens on April 01, 2014, 08:02:34 PM
I think we said no to Counzo and Howland. Obviously Shaka said no to us. I really think Wojo was our 2nd choice. This hire is growing on me.
Agree. Of realistic candidates that were pursued, only Shaka was ahead of him. I was very worried Cords et. all would be stuck in 1999 and look for the candidate that fit as before but not necessarily now. I'm starting to be glad they respected their own process and didn't choose someone else just to prove that fallacy wrong.
If we have success, I can't say he wouldn't leave and go back to Duke in 5 years time. And who could blame him. But there's an honesty to him that is refreshing. Must be the Pole in him. ;D
Quote from: Not Chris Otule's Coach on April 01, 2014, 09:26:30 PM
If we have success, I can't say he wouldn't leave and go back to Duke in 5 years time. And who could blame him. But there's an honesty to him that is refreshing. Must be the Pole in him. ;D
ZFB, this one is yours too, bro
Quote from: madtownwarrior on April 01, 2014, 12:49:42 PM
What, did all that "influencing" go the wrong way for you?
It is not the first time that I have chased wind mills but, my friend, that is no reason to break and run or lower goals. It simply is not in my make-up. To be alive is to fight the good fight, win or loose at whatever level of insignificance. I can assure you I have lost far, far more than this and have also been occasionally surprisingly successful. I remember both. This I will not remember. It is entertainment. No one lives or dies here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 01, 2014, 10:30:53 AM
I'm happier it is Wojo than Martin, but either way was hoping for an impact hire....something MU historically hasn't been able to do at the time of the hiring. Fortunately, MU has been able to identify coaches through the years that have been impactful.
Let's hope that is the case here.
I just bashed you in another thread, but I agree with this sentiment 100%.
The Impact Hire was Shaka. Didn't happen, but wasn't for a lack of trying. I think this will end of being a good call in the long run. We may be here again in 5 years, but I got to experience Dukiet first-hand, so this is all gravy.