http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/10701512/tennessee-volunteers-coach-cuonzo-martin-meets-marquette
We'll see how the interview went - I like that he has had a level of success at each prior stop - has big basketball experience as a player - Midwestern guy - and would be a head coach steal from a major basketball program - current players and recruits seemingly approve as well
Don't know much about the guy, or his recruiting skills.
One question: Should we wonder why we are after a guy who a month ago, over 36,000 fans signed a petition to have him fired? What is up with that?
Quote from: willie warrior on March 31, 2014, 07:33:31 AM
One question: Should we wonder why we are after a guy who a month ago, over 36,000 fans signed a petition to have him fired? What is up with that?
Most can see an easy schedule and draw and still stand by it. Their fans don't slurp anything put in front of them.
and then backed an open letter to Martin to disregard the petition - 90 percent of fans are fairweather as all hell - sadly, here too - the first person I see that tells me they are not renewing their season tickets because of a coach hire, before a game is even played, I am going to, attempt at least, punch is the mouth
This is sounding like just a formality. Not a home run hire. More like a bloop single to left.
I was extremely harsh about Martin even being a candidate and I still hope they go another direction (namely either Miller or Howland- although I believe that Howland's candidacy is finished).
All that being said- he was under enormous pressure at UT just prior to the postseason and both he and his team could have easily folded, but they obviously had a strong postseason run. Something to be said there about his toughness and resiliency.
Well if you set the bar low enough he looks good. What was all of this discussion about top tier? Yes, he may become a great coach but given the track record unlikely IMHO. Looks to me that either something is wrong in Denmark or Buzz speak and over exaggeration is contagious. ?-(
If he is selected I will wish him luck and adjust my aim to a much dimmer future. Hope I am wrong but this would be very disappointing. My regrets in being negative but I had higher expectations and believed the "impact coach" rubbish.
Quote from: Class71 on March 31, 2014, 08:09:33 AM
Well if you set the bar low enough he looks good. What was all of this discussion about top tier? Yes, he may become a great coach but given the track record unlikely IMHO. Looks to me that either something is wrong in Denmark or Buzz speak and over exaggeration is contagious. ?-(
If he is selected I will wish him luck and adjust my aim to a much dimmer future. Hope I am wrong but this would be very disappointing. My regrets in being negative but I had higher expectations and believed the "impact coach" rubbish.
The "impact" rubbish was exactly that - rubbis - its a term used to stroke egos based on the name cachet of the coach - an impact hire is one that has early success ON THE COURT or AT THE RECRUITING TABLE - no one here wants just a good presser and crap results -
Quote from: CAGASS24 on March 31, 2014, 07:30:54 AM
I like that he has had a level of success at each prior stop
Yep. A "level of success". That's a great barometer. What kind of level? Is it the 'three-final fours and three league winning, top-rated program" kind of success? Or the "I made it to the NIT...twice!...and came a game of getting fired" success?
If the latter, then C. Martin really has to have your crotch on fire!
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 31, 2014, 07:45:29 AM
This is sounding like just a formality. Not a home run hire. More like a bloop single to left.
Maybe a double, off the fists, just inside the right field foul line.
I'm glad I haven't sent my donation in yet. It's stamped and ready to go. All I have to do is take the check out once they make this dopey hire. If he can't recruit in that conference he certainly won't recruit in this one! Maybe dick strong can put in for me this year!
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 08:32:27 AM
I'm glad I haven't sent my donation in yet. It's stamped and ready to go. All I have to do is take the check out once they make this dopey hire. If he can't recruit in that conference he certainly won't recruit in this one! Maybe dick strong can put in for me this year!
The SEC is not exactly the hot-bed for bball outside of KY & FL - why wouldn't recruit players better at MU? He is from the mid-west as is his staff. TN is not that strong in mens bball from a tradition standpoint and it is a football first school. I am not saying he is my first choice here, but it is not like he failed to recruit at IN or some other blue blood.
This is more like the guy who hits the ball a mile but it turns out to be foul. On the next pitch he strikes out. This is not even a bunt single but it's a strike out!
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on March 31, 2014, 08:36:27 AM
The SEC is not exactly the hot-bed for bball outside of KY & FL - why wouldn't recruit players better at MU? He is from the mid-west as is his staff. TN is not that strong in mens bball from a tradition standpoint and it is a football first school. I am not saying he is my first choice here, but it is not like he failed to recruit at IN or some other blue blood.
[/quot
Because the big east is a worse conference! It's that simple!
If we make this hire would Jeronne Maymon return to Marquette to help Martin recruit our returning players to stay on the team?
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 31, 2014, 08:30:18 AM
Yep. A "level of success". That's a great barometer. What kind of level? Is it the 'three-final fours and three league winning, top-rated program" kind of success? Or the "I made it to the NIT...twice!...and came a game of getting fired" success?
If the latter, then C. Martin really has to have your crotch on fire!
Dude - You are so over the top with the Howland slurp. Question: Why do you think he's available and on the market and MU hasn't offered him yet?? Why do you feel he was fired from UCLA? Why do you think he could replicate at MU what he's done at UCLA - they are, night and day programs geographically and historically you realize? You really think Howland could have gotten Kevin Love to Milwaukee from Oregon? Russell Westbrook to Milwaukee?
36,000 fans would have signed a petition to fire Bo Ryan 2 months ago during their 6 game slide... UW fans were saying they are too slow, not athletic enough, Bo is too old, etc, etc....
Quote from: Ners on March 31, 2014, 08:42:40 AM
Dude - You are so over the top with the Howland slurp. Question: Why do you think he's available and on the market and MU hasn't offered him yet?? Why do you feel he was fired from UCLA? Why do you think he could replicate at MU what he's done at UCLA - they are, night and day programs geographically and historically you realize? You really think Howland could have gotten Kevin Love to Milwaukee from Oregon? Russell Westbrook to Milwaukee?
Of course not. MU is no where close to the top tier. That's what I've been saying...and getting slammed for. It's not negativity...it's reality. MU certainly has some things to sell, but it also has a lot of disadvantages to overcome. Guess that's why MU will soon be introducing Martin as their next coach. Dick Strong's millions don't buy as much as they used to.
Quote from: Ners on March 31, 2014, 08:42:40 AM
Dude - You are so over the top with the Howland slurp. Question: Why do you think he's available and on the market and MU hasn't offered him yet?? Why do you feel he was fired from UCLA? Why do you think he could replicate at MU what he's done at UCLA - they are, night and day programs geographically and historically you realize? You really think Howland could have gotten Kevin Love to Milwaukee from Oregon? Russell Westbrook to Milwaukee?
If we could retire one phrase here at Scoop, could I nominate "slurp"? Whenever someone likes someone, they are a 'slurper'. Please.
You ragged and bitched and moaned about Buzz all year, Ners. You got your wish. He's gone. So yeah, I'm more on board with one candidate than another. That guy is Howland.
And you are right - he got guys to go to UCLA, which apparently to you, isn't a big deal. Hell, anyone can get guys to go to UCLA. OK, fine, even if I believe that, let me ask you this -
You realize he coached at Pittsburgh and was incredibly successful there, right? So, what got players to go to Pittsburgh of all places? Their love of bridges? An awesome riverfront? The incredible blue-collarness of the town? The weather?
Picking and choosing one of his locations as proof that he's overrated is not what I'd call fair.
Martin has missed the NCAA tournament five of six years. The only year he made it was by making the play-in game. Stellar.
Quote from: GOO on March 31, 2014, 08:52:27 AM
36,000 fans would have signed a petition to fire Bo Ryan 2 months ago during their 6 game slide... UW fans were saying they are too slow, not athletic enough, Bo is too old, etc, etc....
When they lost to tOSU at home 60 days ago, three days after losing to Northwestern at home, they completed a run of 1 - 5 that took them from being ranked #3 to unranked in three weeks. The fans were so irate that they were booing Trevon Jackson and so pissed at the team they thought like I did at the time ... they were not going to the big dance.
And yes, they were saying Bo should retire after the season ended.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 31, 2014, 07:45:29 AM
This is sounding like just a formality. Not a home run hire. More like a bloop single to left.
More like an easy grounder, bobbled by the SS. E6.
Because the national media continues to say he's a candidate, I'm clinging to my 1-2% likelihood we still hire Howland. The 98% is being spent bracing myself for the rip-roaring Cuonzo Martin era. This hire will make as big a splash as throwing a pebble in the ocean.
Copied from the UT board...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris4Vols22
Any coach is a gamble, but I doubt Martin would be considered a risky one by most.
You say he's up and on the rise.
He has a UT winning percentage of slightly over 60% for his three years at UT.
If we go back and include his time at M.S. his all time winning percentage is only 60.19% over 6 years of coaching. That's mediocre at best, and most fans aren't and won't be happy with a coach that wins slightly over half his games. IMO, That's not irrational as a fan base.
2008-2009 - 11–20 record
2009-2010- 24-12 record
2010-2011- 26-9 record
2011-2012- 19-15
2012-2013- 20-13
2013-2014- 24-13
124 wins/ 82 losses
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 31, 2014, 07:45:29 AM
This is sounding like just a formality. Not a home run hire. More like a bloop single to left.
Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on March 31, 2014, 09:07:17 AM
Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.
This is a message board, people have opinions. Use ignore if need be
Quote from: mr.MUskie on March 31, 2014, 09:05:08 AM
Copied from the UT board...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris4Vols22
Any coach is a gamble, but I doubt Martin would be considered a risky one by most.
You say he's up and on the rise.
He has a UT winning percentage of slightly over 60% for his three years at UT.
If we go back and include his time at M.S. his all time winning percentage is only 60.19% over 6 years of coaching. That's mediocre at best, and most fans aren't and won't be happy with a coach that wins slightly over half his games. IMO, That's not irrational as a fan base.
2008-2009 - 11–20 record
2009-2010- 24-12 record
2010-2011- 26-9 record
2011-2012- 19-15
2012-2013- 20-13
2013-2014- 24-13
124 wins/ 82 losses
One person chooses to look at one data point (60% overall), another chooses to look at two sets of three-year uptrends. I wouldn't say UT fans are the most sophisticated hoops fans out there...
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 31, 2014, 08:55:16 AM
If we could retire one phrase here at Scoop, could I nominate "slurp"? Whenever someone likes someone, they are a 'slurper'. Please.
You ragged and bitched and moaned about Buzz all year, Ners. You got your wish. He's gone. So yeah, I'm more on board with one candidate than another. That guy is Howland.
And you are right - he got guys to go to UCLA, which apparently to you, isn't a big deal. Hell, anyone can get guys to go to UCLA. OK, fine, even if I believe that, let me ask you this -
You realize he coached at Pittsburgh and was incredibly successful there, right? So, what got players to go to Pittsburgh of all places? Their love of bridges? An awesome riverfront? The incredible blue-collarness of the town? The weather?
Picking and choosing one of his locations as proof that he's overrated is not what I'd call fair.
The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.
Quote from: Heavy Gear on March 31, 2014, 09:19:14 AM
The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.
I don't think ANY sane fan here thinks MU would replicate what he did at UCLA. Not one person.
But...we'd have a better chance to be successful consistently. We'd have a chance to do things better with Howland than someone else. It's all about risk/reward.
Color me crazy, but I like my chances w/making a final four run better w/Howland than Cuonzo freakin' Martin. That's just me. But what do I know. I'm just a slurper with an opinion on a web board.
At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:
Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova
That's it. I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers: Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop. But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season. To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense. I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.
Quote from: chitownwarrior2011 on March 31, 2014, 09:07:17 AM
Please leave this site. You have been nothing but negative this entire week. Cant stand the negativity you and others bring. This past week on scoop have made CBB and Ners ramblings so insignificant.
I'll say what I want, how I want. You want rah-rah, go to Dodds' board.
Quote from: MUDPT on March 31, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:
Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova
That's it. I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers: Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop. But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season. To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense. I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.
What a great post. Couldn't agree any more with your sentiment.
Quote from: MUDPT on March 31, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova
To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense.
So Florida is the only team that can keep the streak alive.
Quote from: MUDPT on March 31, 2014, 09:24:30 AM
At some point I will list the last 12 years of data, but for the 2013-2014 season, here are the teams that ranked in the top 25 of both offensive and defensive efficiency:
Florida
Arizona
Louisville
Virginia
Wichita State
Tennessee
Villanova
That's it. I looked at the data since 2003 and there were some coaches that people here don't like and outliers: Bruce Weber, Bob McKillop. But Brad Stevens, Tom Crean, Buzz Williams, Shaka Smart have never had a top 25 offense and defense in the same season. To add to this point, no team has won an NCAA championship in the last 12 years without a top 25 offense or defense. I don't know if Martin is the right hire, but we could do a whole lot worse with some of the preferred names on Scoop.
One of the most appealing aspects of his candidacy to me. That and the fact that he has landed two 5* players in 3 years at Tennessee, has prior positive relationships with current players and recruits, and players seem to like playing for him.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on March 31, 2014, 09:23:49 AM
I don't think ANY sane fan here thinks MU would replicate what he did at UCLA. Not one person.
But...we'd have a better chance to be successful consistently. We'd have a chance to do things better with Howland than someone else. It's all about risk/reward.
Color me crazy, but I like my chances w/making a final four run better w/Howland than Cuonzo freakin' Martin. That's just me. But what do I know. I'm just a slurper with an opinion on a web board.
We definitely won't have to worry about any Final Fours under Martin...not even in the CBI.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 31, 2014, 09:29:36 AM
So Florida is the only team that can keep the streak alive.
Might make sense to put some money on them before Saturday, huh?
Howland WANTS to be here. And he's already done the "big name" job and likely wants a program where he can end his career.
Martin wants OUT of Tennessee and the psycho fan base. He MIGHT not care where (if he can bet a pay raise, too, hey, he'll take it...).
Which one do you think will stick around longer?
Quote from: Heavy Gear on March 31, 2014, 09:19:14 AM
The people on this board that think if Howland were to be hired the expectation would be he should duplicate his success at UCLA crack me up. I'm more impressed with what he did at Pitt - two Big East tournament championships, two Sweet 16 tournament runs and the #9 rated recruiting class his final year there. Explain to me what in Cuonzo Martin's track record of wins/losses and recruiting success indicates he's going to be anywhere near that successful. Absolutely nothing.
You put someone from Tennessee in our program and their recruiting goes up. You put someone from UCLA in our program it goes down.
I'm not saying one will do better than the other but just pointing out the obvious.
Remember, this team brought us Tom Crean and Buzz Williams. Two candidates that had done a helluva lot less than either Wojo or Martin. Together they brought us 10 tournament appearances, 4 sweet 16s, 2 elite 8s, and 1 final four (BTW, the last 5 coaches before Crean combined for 9 appearances, 1 Sweet 16, 0 Elite 8s, and 0 Final Fours....over a 30 year period). They also elevated us from mid major status and gave us a seat with the big boys. They put what a dozen players in the NBA?
This team knows how to find coaching talent. I trust them to make the best hire.
I'm curious with the comments from UT fans that he left Missouri State in a mess. No idea if it is true or what they are talking about.
Anyone?
Quote from: humanlung on March 31, 2014, 09:31:53 AM
Howland WANTS to be here. And he's already done the "big name" job and likely wants a program where he can end his career.
Martin wants OUT of Tennessee and the psycho fan base. He MIGHT not care where (if he can bet a pay raise, too, hey, he'll take it...).
Which one do you think will stick around longer?
Sounds just like Brent to VT.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2014, 09:34:39 AM
I'm curious with the comments from UT fans that he left Missouri State in a mess. No idea if it is true or what they are talking about.
Anyone?
Other then he left at the right time, not sure what "mess" means. I don't recall any NCAA infractions or anything like that.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 31, 2014, 09:35:47 AM
Sounds just like Brent to VT.
Is Curly playing the role of Howland or Martin in your comment?
What is going on here? Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level! I'm not seeing it. Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people! I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it. I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
What is going on here? Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level! I'm not seeing it. Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people! I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it. I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.
Respect the Process
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
What is going on here? Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level! I'm not seeing it. Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people! I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it. I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.
Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
What is going on here? Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level! I'm not seeing it. Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people! I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it. I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.
Do I have multiple accounts? Exactly my thinking.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 10:03:44 AM
Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.
Word.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 10:03:44 AM
Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.
Excellent Recruiter? No...... He's never had a top 25 recruiting class.
Top 25 Offensive and Defensive Efficiency - All the teams in this group have won over 30+ games. Tennessee only won 24. That's a huuuuuuuuge red flag. You have a team that is elite, yet is not playing like an elite team. If I'm not mistaken, I believe former football coach Ray Rhodes had a team that was top 10 in defense and offense in the league, but failed to make the playoffs.... the only coach in NFL history to do that. Martin, would have been the first coach to be ranked top 20 in offense and defense to not make the tourney..... and FYI - they almost didn't!!! That is scary!!!
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 10:03:44 AM
Top 25 offense and defense efficiency this year and based on all accounts, he's an excellent recruiter. So yes, you are missing something. He's a young up and coming coach who has had some success early on at an atheltic department that only cares about football. I wouldn't be crushed by this hire. Not a home run, but a pretty good hire. Don't be a pawn to name recognition. Buzz was an anomaly with his early success, Martin has had more of a traditional ascension, and hopefully he uses his tribulations and successes as a springboard to sustained excellence at Marquette. Not a long shot by any means.
i think I'll stick with the missing the tournament five of six years as an indicator instead of one year with the top 25 offense and defense efficency ratings. Sounds like those baseball stat freaks that pull out the non-traditional stats to try and convince someone that a pitcher with a 13-9 record, no complete games and few starts longer than 7 innings should be the Cy Young winner.
Quote from: CAGASS24 on March 31, 2014, 07:45:06 AM
I am going to, attempt at least, punch is the mouth
I thought the preferred weapons of choice here on Scoop were hatchets and stench
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
Excellent Recruiter? No...... He's never had a top 25 recruiting class.
Top 25 Offensive and Defensive Efficiency - All the teams in this group have won over 30+ games. Tennessee only won 24. That's a huuuuuuuuge red flag. You have a team that is elite, yet is not playing like an elite team. If I'm not mistaken, I believe former football coach Ray Rhodes had a team that was top 10 in defense and offense in the league, but failed to make the playoffs.... the only coach in NFL history to do that. Martin, would have been the first coach to be ranked top 20 in offense and defense to not make the tourney..... and FYI - they almost didn't!!! That is scary!!!
+1. Two good recruits does not a reputation make when the rest weren't anything special. The others with the efficiency distinction: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 seeds. How does the other go 11-7 in the 7th best conference and limp into a play-in game?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 31, 2014, 09:00:00 AM
More like an easy grounder, bobbled by the SS. E6.
He plays for the Mariners?
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 09:50:12 AM
What is going on here? Am I missing something? Martin is not a coach that can bring us to the next level! I'm not seeing it. Crean and buzz moved us in a better direction than what we had prior and now we are risking our future with a guy who was about to be booted at ut? Come on people! I'm perplexed. I know it's politically correct to be positive but this is shouting disaster and too many people aren't seeing it. I'm sorry and I know I'm going to get killed for it but its my honest feeling and need to vent.
Bingo!
While Martin doesn't have a huge track record of great recruiting classes, I've been surprised to see him named with a lot of the big time recruits we've been after lately. He was a finalist and considered a legitimate option for Looney, and he's been recruiting Stone. He's certainly getting recruit's attention, the question is if he can start landing more of them.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 31, 2014, 10:26:13 AM
While Martin doesn't have a huge track record of great recruiting classes, I've been surprised to see him named with a lot of the big time recruits we've been after lately. He was a finalist and considered a legitimate option for Looney, and he's been recruiting Stone. He's certainly getting recruit's attention, the question is if he can start landing more of them.
Come to Tennessee! You'll be third in line behind a mediocre SEC football team and our women's basketball team!
vs.
Come to MU! We have a HOFer still playing in the league, several other players in the NBA, a final 4, elite 8, 2 S16's, and a string of tournament appearances since 2000, and a national title banner in the rafters! Oh, BTW, you're by far the biggest show on campus - we don't even have football.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
Excellent Recruiter? No...... He's never had a top 25 recruiting class.
Top 25 Offensive and Defensive Efficiency - All the teams in this group have won over 30+ games. Tennessee only won 24. That's a huuuuuuuuge red flag. You have a team that is elite, yet is not playing like an elite team. If I'm not mistaken, I believe former football coach Ray Rhodes had a team that was top 10 in defense and offense in the league, but failed to make the playoffs.... the only coach in NFL history to do that. Martin, would have been the first coach to be ranked top 20 in offense and defense to not make the tourney..... and FYI - they almost didn't!!! That is scary!!!
What's the red flag? I don't get it. Some breaks didn't go their way and they lost some games. Please point out where the losses can be directly attributed to Martin. He put an excellent product on the floor on offense and defense. What more can you ask for.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
What's the red flag? I don't get it. Some breaks didn't go their way and they lost some games. Please point out where the losses can be directly attributed to Martin. He put an excellent product on the floor on offense and defense. What more can you ask for.
Bingo!
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 10:10:38 AM
Excellent Recruiter? No...... He's never had a top 25 recruiting class.
Top 25 Offensive and Defensive Efficiency - All the teams in this group have won over 30+ games. Tennessee only won 24. That's a huuuuuuuuge red flag. You have a team that is elite, yet is not playing like an elite team. If I'm not mistaken, I believe former football coach Ray Rhodes had a team that was top 10 in defense and offense in the league, but failed to make the playoffs.... the only coach in NFL history to do that. Martin, would have been the first coach to be ranked top 20 in offense and defense to not make the tourney..... and FYI - they almost didn't!!! That is scary!!!
Does Howland's SI article scare you? Is that a red flag?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 31, 2014, 10:34:48 AM
Come to Tennessee! You'll be third in line behind a mediocre SEC football team and our women's basketball team!
vs.
Come to MU! We have a HOFer still playing in the league, several other players in the NBA, a final 4, elite 8, 2 S16's, and a string of tournament appearances since 2000, and a national title banner in the rafters! Oh, BTW, you're by far the biggest show on campus - we don't even have football.
Exactly. Given the tools, I have faith in this guy.
Quote from: atk13thst on March 31, 2014, 10:36:59 AM
Bingo!
They say HELL NO to Martin and just NO to Wojo and Wardle. Kind of rubs me the wrong way.
CUONZO IS A GOOD COACH!!
Someone on the Dodds board posted this...
http://tonybasilio.com/index.php?page=tony&b=1854
Not sure it's accurate, but it's an interesting perspective.
I've come to peace with a Cuonzo hire. Not "impact" or exciting, but sounds like a solid, safe hire, and we could continue moving forward.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 31, 2014, 10:40:25 AM
Someone on the Dodds board posted this...
http://tonybasilio.com/index.php?page=tony&b=1854
Not sure it's accurate, but it's an interesting perspective.
I've come to peace with a Cuonzo hire. Not "impact" or exciting, but sounds like a solid, safe hire, and we could continue moving forward.
That site says Broeker is the acting AD....one wonders how credible it is.
Quote from: Groin_pull on March 31, 2014, 08:53:01 AM
Of course not. MU is no where close to the top tier. That's what I've been saying...and getting slammed for. It's not negativity...it's reality. MU certainly has some things to sell, but it also has a lot of disadvantages to overcome. Guess that's why MU will soon be introducing Martin as their next coach. Dick Strong's millions don't buy as much as they used to.
Well in this case, Strong's millions would be buying another program's HC instead of another assistant. Maybe you weren't a Marquette fan during the Crean and Buzz hires.
Quote from: chapman on March 31, 2014, 10:18:19 AM
+1. Two good recruits does not a reputation make when the rest weren't anything special. The others with the efficiency distinction: 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 seeds. How does the other go 11-7 in the 7th best conference and limp into a play-in game?
Bad luck. They outscored teams in the SEC by 0.14 points per possession. Florida outscored teams by 0.21. Kentucky by 0.08. So they were way better against a similar schedule then Kentucky was. As for the play in game, the committee is fueled by biases. Makes you wonder how the BCS is somehow going to be better this year without computer input.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 31, 2014, 10:42:25 AM
That site says Broeker is the acting AD....one wonders how credible it is.
Also, they're the only site to report publicly the Bennett interest and, subsequently, the Bennett turn down.
Quote from: LittleMurs on March 31, 2014, 10:48:06 AM
Well in this case, Strong's millions would be buying another program's HC instead of another assistant. Maybe you weren't a Marquette fan during the Crean and Buzz hires.
I have a belief in why and several folks I know at MU concur. Somewhat about control....when you hire an assistant and you are bankrolling it, you get to mold, influence, mentor that young coach because he isn't established yet.
I don't necessarily believe what he's saying from the MU side, but I thought the UT perspective was interesting, how he really just wasn't a good fit. Makes it easier to understand why UT is OK letting him go. Another one of those AD wants to hire his own guy situations. Also, if Broeker is really the one pushing Cuonzo, I'd probably go with his judgment over Lovell and the others.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 10:35:45 AM
What's the red flag? I don't get it. Some breaks didn't go their way and they lost some games. Please point out where the losses can be directly attributed to Martin. He put an excellent product on the floor on offense and defense. What more can you ask for.
Martin - Cons
Didn't beat an opponent while they were ranked all year.
Played Florida 3x and could never get within 5 pts.
Couldn't play a close game with Kentucky either, even when Kentucky was dealing with trials and tribulations of freshmen
Lost to Texas A+M twice ... Dear Lord !!!
Tournament Resume - Beat Mercer and Umass. Whooopdy Dooo
Of all the teams that finished top 20 in defense/offense:
Louisville, Wichita St., Arizona, Florida - all won 30 games or more.
There are too many holes in his resume and people are attaching Sweet 16 run to guaranteed success. What I stated above, is not the resume of a good/great coach.
Quote from: jt92 on March 31, 2014, 08:32:27 AM
I'm glad I haven't sent my donation in yet. It's stamped and ready to go. All I have to do is take the check out once they make this dopey hire. If he can't recruit in that conference he certainly won't recruit in this one! Maybe dick strong can put in for me this year!
In a conference where only Florida & Kentucky recruit big-time, he recruited more 5-stars in just 3 years than Buzz and Crean did in 15 years combined - so I would be interested in your opinion on being able to recruit.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 11:01:20 AM
Martin - Cons
Didn't beat an opponent while they were ranked all year.
Played Florida 3x and could never get within 5 pts.
Couldn't play a close game with Kentucky either, even when Kentucky was dealing with trials and tribulations of freshmen
Lost to Texas A+M twice ... Dear Lord !!!
Tournament Resume - Beat Mercer and Umass. Whooopdy Dooo
Of all the teams that finished top 20 in defense/offense:
Louisville, Wichita St., Arizona, Florida - all won 30 games or more.
There are too many holes in his resume and people are attaching Sweet 16 run to guaranteed success. What I stated above, is not the resume of a good/great coach.
Really, you're blasting him for losing to two Final Four teams right now. And he had plenty of solid Ws this year to offset some ugly ones--see UVA, @LSU, Mizzou, etc. And let's not forget that he beat Iowa in the tournment as well, a top 25 team for most the season. Again, give me a coach that can establish a top 25 offense and defense and I'll roll with it.
Quote from: windyplayer on March 31, 2014, 11:32:06 AM
Really, you're blasting him for losing to two Final Four teams right now. And he had plenty of solid Ws this year to offset some ugly ones--see UVA, @LSU, Mizzou, etc. And let's not forget that he beat Iowa in the tournment as well, a top 25 team for most the season. Again, give me a coach that can establish a top 25 offense and defense and I'll roll with it.
His top 25 offense/defense is a fluke. If you're top 25 then you should be ranked in the top 25 and not have to be in the playoff game. The stats you quote don't justify the outcome.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 11:42:20 AM
His top 25 offense/defense is a fluke. If you're top 25 then you should be ranked in the top 25 and not have to be in the playoff game. The stats you quote don't justify the outcome.
It seems to me like the less than expected record was more of a fluke, not the other way around.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 31, 2014, 11:50:14 AM
It seems to me like the less than expected record was more of a fluke, not the other way around.
Please substantiate your argument. I'm curious to know why you think the losses they suffered were flukes.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 12:00:03 PM
Please substantiate your argument. I'm curious to know why you think the losses they suffered were flukes.
Because that's what the KenPom rankings are supposed to do - provide a predictive performance value separate from W/L record. A team ranked ~25 losing by 1 at home and by 3 in OT at TAMU as well as by 4 at Vandy & by 5 @ Mizzou is more of an anomaly. Their efficiency ratings are not a fluke, they just are what they are.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 31, 2014, 12:06:47 PM
Because that's what the KenPom rankings are supposed to do - provide a predictive performance value separate from W/L record. A team ranked ~25 losing by 1 at home and by 3 in OT at TAMU as well as by 4 at Vandy & by 5 @ Mizzou is more of an anomaly. Their efficiency ratings are not a fluke, they just are what they are.
Just curious, but what does KenPom say of our season this year? With all the close/OT games, which ones were considered flukes?
Quote from: Litehouse on March 31, 2014, 09:29:36 AM
So Florida is the only team that can keep the streak alive.
No. That list you referenced are teams that have BOTH top 25 offense AND defense.
The stat is that you can't win the championship without EITHER a top 25 offense OR a top 25 defense.
Quote from: jesmu84 on March 31, 2014, 12:43:56 PM
No. That list you referenced are teams that have BOTH top 25 offense AND defense.
The stat is that you can't win the championship without EITHER a top 25 offense OR a top 25 defense.
Nah dawg. It's both at the same time for the 'ship. And for the final four it's almost a prerequisite. Henry Sugar had a pretty great post about that recently:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2014/03/marquette-and-priorities-part-one.html
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 31, 2014, 12:06:47 PM
Because that's what the KenPom rankings are supposed to do - provide a predictive performance value separate from W/L record. A team ranked ~25 losing by 1 at home and by 3 in OT at TAMU as well as by 4 at Vandy & by 5 @ Mizzou is more of an anomaly. Their efficiency ratings are not a fluke, they just are what they are.
That's just great. We may not contend with the top teams and give them a run for their money, but we'll be a Ken Pom darling.
What time is the Ken Pom awards banquet so I can my suit ready?
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 12:55:24 PM
That's just great. We may not contend with the top teams and give them a run for their money, but we'll be a Ken Pom darling.
What time is the Ken Pom awards banquet so I can my suit ready?
You ask for reasoned analytical support to my statement, you get it, and this is your reply. I shan't be dancing with you any longer.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on March 31, 2014, 12:51:19 PM
Nah dawg. It's both at the same time for the 'ship. And for the final four it's almost a prerequisite. Henry Sugar had a pretty great post about that recently:
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2014/03/marquette-and-priorities-part-one.html
yup. reading comprehension not my strong suit right now. thanks for the correction
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 12:55:24 PM
That's just great. We may not contend with the top teams and give them a run for their money, but we'll be a Ken Pom darling.
What time is the Ken Pom awards banquet so I can my suit ready?
You are really missing the point of the efficiency stats. It would be nearly impossible for a team to be ranked top 25 in both off & def and consistently come up short. That's why the record is the anomaly.
Now you could argue that he might not be capable of replicating his efficiency numbers at MU, but that is a different discussion.
Quote from: Litehouse on March 31, 2014, 12:41:56 PM
Just curious, but what does KenPom say of our season this year? With all the close/OT games, which ones were considered flukes?
We were not ranked very highly, 55-65 most of conference season (UT is currently 7, MU is currently 79). But going to OT @ #198 Depaul for sure, and to a lesser extent @ #105 Butler were closer to anomalies on the downside for us, and taking #13 Villanova to OT at home was an closer to an anomaly on the upside for us.
Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 12:55:24 PM
That's just great. We may not contend with the top teams and give them a run for their money, but we'll be a Ken Pom darling.
What time is the Ken Pom awards banquet so I can my suit ready?
you own a suit?
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Quote from: MikeDeanesDarkGlasses on March 31, 2014, 01:29:42 PM
(http://d2ws0xxnnorfdo.cloudfront.net/meme/206195)</a>
You also forgot 2014 Sweet 16.
To be fair, that's better than MU, Duke, VCU, and Howland's church league squad or whatever he coached this year.