http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/69064672/fbi-gambling-investigation-al-mcguire-marquette-college-basketball
H/t: twitter and another scooper
My favorite line of this has nothing to do with the point shaving allegations:
QuoteHe left most of the details to his assistants, Hank Raymonds and Rick Majerus. Sometimes, McGuire wasn't even certain of his players' names. "I figure I'm wrong 80 percent of the time, but it takes too much time to be right," McGuire lamented
Interesting read.
Is it all but obvious to anyone else that the NCAA "source" is Walter Byers?
Just another item for the nostalgia file. Things were different 40 years ago. That stuff gets out on a message board today....... Society really was different then. Marquette was truly a unique place then, even considering the different times. A long history of the basketball program being iconoclastic and not cookie cutter.
That guy in the top pic had great hair (not Al).
Quote from: Benny B on March 11, 2014, 11:19:26 AM
Is it all but obvious to anyone else that the NCAA "source" is Walter Byers?
The "Solitary Man?" I don't think he cared much for Al, so yes, I agree.
Who didn't the FBI investigate in the early 70's?
I'm sure that men who wore dresses got a pass, but it was open season on everyone else.
I really got a laugh out of one of the last memos from Milwaukee FBI, their source said he didn't agree with Al's substitute patterns but did concede Al might know better than him the capabilities of his players. Sound a lot like scoop these days except not all defer to Buzz's knowledge of his players.
March 1970 - Al tells the NCAA to pound sand, goes to New York and wins the NIT
March 1971 - Based on a tip, the FBI is knee deep in an investigation (unsubstantiated and soon dropped) of possible point shaving by Al and his Marquette Warriors.
Pretty easy to connect those dots.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 11, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
March 1970 - Al tells the NCAA to pound sand, goes to New York and wins the NIT
March 1971 - Based on a tip, the FBI is knee deep in an investigation (unsubstantiated and soon dropped) of possible point shaving by Al and his Marquette Warriors.
Pretty easy to connect those dots.
Was thinking the same thing.
I didn't realize Al's oldest brother was a fighter pilot
Quoteliving the life of a seedy club owner and degenerate gambler
I did not know Al was busted in a gambling establishment? Is that factual?
That is worse than Crean's alleged incident (as reported by Chicos) that TC once had a car accident in a seedy part of time late at night.
Was it common knowledge that he owned the Time Out Bar across from the Auditorium?
Owning the Time Out was common knowledge.
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 11, 2014, 01:58:50 PM
That is worse than Crean's alleged incident (as reported by Chicos) that TC once had a car accident in a seedy part of time late at night.
Wow. I missed that one. Details, please!
Quote from: Goose on March 11, 2014, 02:19:41 PM
Owning the Time Out was common knowledge.
Someone Needs to update the bar section of Scoop Wiki
Quote from: Goose on March 11, 2014, 02:19:41 PM
Owning the Time Out was common knowledge.
Jim's Time Out?
And I'm with Keefe, I'd love to hear this Crean story.
Ask Chicos. He was the one who first disclosed it on one of these boards 10 + years ago and touted it as a big deal, insinuating something shady was going on, I clearly remember. I think he was working for MU Athletics then and acted like he was in the know. He was the one who used the term seedy part of town or words to that effect. Then, when I brought it up a few years ago he played it down; having a very diffferent tone than when he originally brought it up....
Quote from: swoopem on March 11, 2014, 02:31:17 PM
Jim's Time Out?
No, Time Out preceded Goolsby's in the same space.
Lens
Right on!! Time Out was in Goolsby's location.
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 11, 2014, 01:58:50 PM
I did not know Al was busted in a gambling establishment? Is that factual?
That is worse than Crean's alleged incident (as reported by Chicos) that TC once had a car accident in a seedy part of time late at night.
Was it common knowledge that he owned the Time Out Bar across from the Auditorium?
Uhm, incorrect. Nothing about seedy part or late at night
Not certain if y'all are referin' to the same incident, but shortly after movin' into town, Clappy turned the wrong way onto State St. which resulted in your basic fender bender. Apparently, the dipchit can't read yet.
BTW, if ya need a stress reliever, try to catch the dude attemptin' to play golf. It's worth the price of admission. Ya might just pee yourself from laughter. T-Cubed makes Barkley look like Tiger in his prime.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2014, 03:37:36 PM
Uhm, incorrect. Nothing about seedy part or late at night
C'mon, let's hear the dirt! I heard it was similar to the Hugh Grant - Divine Brown deal.
(http://www.bohomoth.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/02/Hugh-Grant-Divine-Brown-Mug-Shot-750684.jpg)
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 11, 2014, 02:52:33 PM
Ask Chicos. He was the one who first disclosed it on one of these boards 10 + years ago and touted it as a big deal, insinuating something shady was going on, I clearly remember. I think he was working for MU Athletics then and acted like he was in the know. He was the one who used the term seedy part of town or words to that effect. Then, when I brought it up a few years ago he played it down; having a very diffferent tone than when he originally brought it up....
Slow down there. Here's the thread that you started back in 2008. You had the title that said seedy.
I was not working for them then. I believe I clearly said it may or may not have been seedy in reaction to your question, but those weren't my words to say it was seedy. I know people that will swear all of the MU campus is seedy, while others think it is beautiful. Not for me to decide. He was just on the job, didn't know his way around MU or Milwaukee.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=8119.msg65712#msg65712
I heard the story from you first when it happened in 1999 or whenever. At that time you insinuated there was more to the story and your initial response to my 2008 post suggests that as well..
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 11, 2014, 07:16:41 PM
I heard the story from you first when it happened in 1999 or whenever. At that time you insinuated there was more to the story and your initial response to my 2008 post suggests that as well..
Coverup?
Quote from: Knight Commission on March 11, 2014, 07:16:41 PM
I heard the story from you first when it happened in 1999 or whenever. At that time you insinuated there was more to the story and your initial response to my 2008 post suggests that as well..
Please show me how my initial response in 2008 suggests anything of the kind? In fact, I was pretty clear that it was much to do about nothing....which is exactly the case. So you'll have to show me where my 2008 post "suggests that as well" because it clearly doesn't. Nor would it, nothing happened.
Secondly, you didn't hear anything from me in 1999 because I was an employee at the time and I didn't utilize any of the boards while an employee. You're hearing things or confusing it with someone else, but as long as you are insinuating and have a few TC haters here on full Viagra doses, I think I at least deserve an explanation on how my post suggests anything of the kind as you just implied.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2014, 08:10:02 PM
Please show me how my initial response in 2008 suggests anything of the kind? In fact, I was pretty clear that it was much to do about nothing....which is exactly the case. So you'll have to show me where my 2008 post "suggests that as well" because it clearly doesn't. Nor would it, nothing happened.
Secondly, you didn't hear anything from me in 1999 because I was an employee at the time and I didn't utilize any of the boards while an employee. You're hearing things or confusing it with someone else, but as long as you are insinuating and have a few TC haters here on full Viagra doses, I think I at least deserve an explanation on how my post suggests anything of the kind as you just implied.
JD, you know you aren't going to win this one.
It's the court of public opinion.
Besides, Crean's an ...... Fill in the blank.
Oh good grief. Now back to Al.
My general recollection (and this dates to my childhood) was that the NCAA had it in for Al. He was brash, arrogant and obnoxious. His players were African Americans who played street ball -- and you knew it. When we won, we cut down the nets with a switchblade rather than the medical tape scissors that most teams used. A lot of folks -- are you listening Adolph Rupp -- didn't like Al and didn't like what our basketball team stood for. Marquette was a leader in fairness and most of us who understood what MU was about and what Al was about, knew that.
Add to that the fact as another poster pointed out, Marquette was the only team ever to spurn the NCAA and you get an FBI investigation.
I suspect Al kept a lot of this inside himself. The closest he ever got to going over the top about it was in 1977 when we were playing for the national title. We had beaten Kansas State by the skin of our teeth and in his post-game comments, Al went off the deep end about the NCAA, the referees and his apparent view that the NCAA had it in for Marquette. I don't doubt that Walter Byers called Hoover's corrupt FBI and started something. Hoover, who probably was one of the most corrupt public servants in American history, was only too happy to have yet another famous American under his thumb.
After reading the piece, I don't doubt Edgar Hoover went after Al. I also suspect he found nothing. Perhaps the most telling part of the article was Hugh McMahon's subsequent post debunking a good bit of what the author, and Byers, alleged.
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 11, 2014, 08:40:19 PM
JD, you know you aren't going to win this one.
It's the court of public opinion.
Besides, Crean's an ...... Fill in the blank.
I've said many times he's an ......
I just want to know how what I said in that thread suggests what he thinks it does. Nothing to do with public opinion.
I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall. Does he still teach at MU?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2014, 10:59:48 PM
I've said many times he's an ......
I just want to know how what I said in that thread suggests what he thinks it does. Nothing to do with public opinion.
I probably should have used teal.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2014, 11:03:05 PM
I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall. Does he still teach at MU?
He does, surprisingly. He was ancient when I had him in 96. (Wikipedia has him at 77). He is a Hoover expert. He got some pub recently, don't remember what for (anniversary of hoover's death maybe?)
Quote from: Lennys Tap on March 11, 2014, 01:06:50 PM
March 1970 - Al tells the NCAA to pound sand, goes to New York and wins the NIT
March 1971 - Based on a tip, the FBI is knee deep in an investigation (unsubstantiated and soon dropped) of possible point shaving by Al and his Marquette Warriors.
Pretty easy to connect those dots.
I think that's exactly right. But I'll get it a little closer. Check this out:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1971_NCAA_Men's_Division_I_Basketball_Tournament
Back in those days, they played a regional consolation game. Al McGuire and the Marquette Warriors beat Adolph Rupp and the Kentucky Wildcats 91-74 for third place in the Mideast Regional.
That score is a severe spanking for the guy who pretty much owned the Mideast Region in the 1960s and '70s. Two weeks later, a confidential informant from the NCAA goes to the FBI. Yeah, I'll connect those dots. NCIS fans, see Gibbs's Rule No. 39: http://ncis.wikia.com/wiki/Gibbs's_Rules.
How much did Rupp own the Mideast Region? I recall the chair of the selection committee in 1970 was from the SEC. Elsewhere on this site and in one or another Al biography, it's reported that Rupp was on the committee himself. Could be; somebody could look all that up. Regardless, Rupp probably personally engineered MU's invitation to the Midwest Regional in 1970 -- the bid that Al declined in favor of the NIT, which, as noted, we won. (Proud to have been there for every session as photographer for the Marquette Tribune and seeing my late, great classmate, Dean Meminger, hoist the MVP trophy in the then 3-year-old Garden, a few miles from his home, in a tournament that featured Pistol Pete Maravich from LSU and Julius Erving from UMass. I have long treasured the memory of Dean holding that square-based trophy atop his round Afro.)
As long as somebody wants to make up wild, crazy-ass conspiracy theories, here's mine: The only reason a confidential informant from the NCAA went to the FBI was because Rupp didn't know anybody in the Mafia. Or, if he did, when the Mafia heard who he wanted to hit, they would've told Rupp to go to hell, or less polite words to that effect not suitable for a family message board. Even the Mafia had its limits, especially in New York.
Biographers and other Alophiles are welcome to correct me, but I'd bet (pun fully intended) that although we only got a regional third place in 1971, Al might have counted that Kentucky win in the 1971 Mideast Regional as No. 2 on his all-time favorite victories list, right after the final game of his career.
Beyond the ludicrous suggestion that Al was involved in "sports bribery," though, this passage especially rankled me: "The amazing part of Marquette's success was McGuire's seemingly poor fit for his coaching duties. As he explained to Sports Illustrated's Frank Deford, "I hate everything about this job except the games.'"
I vividly recall Roy Williams saying pretty much the same thing when he was at Kansas. Indeed, I defy anyone to find any college basketball coach anywhere who says he enjoys anything about the job more than the games.
Ring Out, Ahoya!
Quote from: dgies9156 on March 11, 2014, 10:20:42 PM
I also suspect he found nothing.
Exactly right. The article included a link to the FBI file: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2a47bNilHYAY01UY3RSYk9icmc/edit.
The last page says they found nothing.
Quote from: MARQKC on March 12, 2014, 05:31:51 PM
Exactly right. The article included a link to the FBI file: https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B2a47bNilHYAY01UY3RSYk9icmc/edit.
The last page says they found nothing.
Your post was interesting and quite informative. I come from a Marquette family and followed MU basketball almost from the day Al got there. What seems to be amazing now -- in reflecting on the tenor of the times -- is how badly the deck was stacked against us.
We've come a long way since then -- or have we?
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2014, 08:15:10 AM
He does, surprisingly. He was ancient when I had him in 96. (Wikipedia has him at 77). He is a Hoover expert. He got some pub recently, don't remember what for (anniversary of hoover's death maybe?)
He was one of my advisors, along with Dr. Wolfe. Interesting men.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on March 12, 2014, 08:15:10 AM
He was ancient when I had him in 96.
How did you "Have Him?"
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on March 11, 2014, 11:03:05 PM
I'd love to hear Professor Theoharis view on this, since he is a Jay Edgar Hoover expert if I recall. Does he still teach at MU?
He might teach a class every now and then, but he's definitely an Emeritus. They had a big retirement shindig for him when I was a student in the history department, which was 7-8 years ago now
Chicos, were you a fellow history major?
Amazing how those bemoaned liberal arts majors still end up doing ok once in a while ;D
History repeats itself. I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI. An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game. Guilty
Quote from: murphmurphy on March 13, 2014, 03:41:12 AM
History repeats itself. I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI. An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game. Guilty
Ha. Lol.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on March 12, 2014, 10:13:24 PM
Chicos, were you a fellow history major?
Amazing how those bemoaned liberal arts majors still end up doing ok once in a while ;D
Lib arts
alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad
Quote from: murphmurphy on March 13, 2014, 03:41:12 AM
History repeats itself. I heard Buzz is under investigation by the FBI. An informant told the FBI Buzz was shaving points by playing Derrick Wilson over 35 minutes per game. Guilty
The informant goes by Agent Ners
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2014, 06:23:23 AM
Lib arts alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad
Myself included.
I still wouldn't call it worthless though. There are an incredibly dumbfounding number of people in corporate America who don't know how to compose an email.
Quote from: Jay Bee on March 13, 2014, 06:23:23 AM
Lib arts alone is often worthless. Some wait to begin their more worthwhile Ed until after undergrad
Hey! I got a lib arts degree
alone, and I got a job....in a field totally unrelated to my major....wait, I see your point