MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: tower912 on March 08, 2014, 02:00:41 PM
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1. Season in a microcosm.
2. Once again, it wasn't for lack of effort.
3. Thank you, seniors
4. Deonte will be the leader next year.
5. The officiating was like MU was on the road. Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU.
6. 6 pts in 11 seconds? Wow.
7. The final play started to break down when Deonte and Davante went to the exact same spot in the low block. IMO, it was supposed to be an entry pass to Gardner, but a freshman mistake sent DG to the high post and ended with a little weave and Jamil not wanting to force it and defaulting to ....well, you know the rest. Since the play had broken down, the senior, the leader, the most athletically gifted player has to make the play. Story of the year. In a single play.
8. SJU is more athletic. Harrison is fearless. And they went for him.
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1. Season in a microcosm.
2. Once again, it wasn't for lack of effort.
3. Thank you, seniors
4. Deonte will be the leader next year.
5. The officiating was like MU was on the road. Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU.
6. 6 pts in 11 seconds? Wow.
7. The final play started to break down when Deonte and Davante went to the exact same spot in the low block. IMO, it was supposed to be an entry pass to Gardner, but a freshman mistake sent DG to the high post and ended with a little weave and Jamil not wanting to force it and defaulting to ....well, you know the rest. Since the play had broken down, the senior, the leader, the most athletically gifted player has to make the play. Story of the year. In a single play.
8. SJU is more athletic. Harrison is fearless. And they went for him.
Well said. That 3 by Harrison was ridiculous. Great game.
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1. Season in a microcosm.
2. Once again, it wasn't for lack of effort.
3. Thank you, seniors
4. Deonte will be the leader next year.
5. The officiating was like MU was on the road. Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU.
6. 6 pts in 11 seconds? Wow.
7. The final play started to break down when Deonte and Davante went to the exact same spot in the low block. IMO, it was supposed to be an entry pass to Gardner, but a freshman mistake sent DG to the high post and ended with a little weave and Jamil not wanting to force it and defaulting to ....well, you know the rest. Since the play had broken down, the senior, the leader, the most athletically gifted player has to make the play. Story of the year. In a single play.
8. SJU is more athletic. Harrison is fearless. And they went for him.
#5 Disagree. They had two guys foul out before we had one guy foul out.
#6 That was a gag job by SJU. Terrible in bound play. Then you get fouled and an 80% free thrower can't hit a FT, then you let MU come down and score.
#7 We spent too much time dribbling around with very little movement by others. Stagnant
We got a lot of help to get it to OT
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There wasn't a breakdown between Burton and Gardner...you aren't trying to get to your go to attempt at the 8 second mark and Gardner and Burton were trying to get into a favorable switch..
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Well said. That 3 by Harrison was ridiculous. Great game.
He shoots that shot a lot over the course of the season. And the defender (Wilson) was looking the other way. Had no clue Harrison even took the shot until after the fact.
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There wasn't a breakdown between Burton and Gardner...you aren't trying to get to your go to attempt at the 8 second mark and Gardner and Burton were trying to get into a favorable switch..
You are way wrong Ners. Watch the replay. Burton was completely lost as to where to go.
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You are way wrong Ners. Watch the replay. Burton was completely lost as to where to go.
I watched the replay...and disagree..
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Good post Tower. But I'm not sure I'm ready to anoint Deonte the leader next year...I think Mayo will have something to say about that. And for the good of the team I hope I'm right. He could have a very special season next year
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I watched the replay...and disagree..
For someone that supposedly knows a lot about Basketball, you are apparently incapable of breaking down film and diagnosing what went wrong.
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1. Season in a microcosm.
2. Once again, it wasn't for lack of effort.
3. Thank you, seniors
4. Deonte will be the leader next year.
5. The officiating was like MU was on the road. Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU.
6. 6 pts in 11 seconds? Wow.
7. The final play started to break down when Deonte and Davante went to the exact same spot in the low block. IMO, it was supposed to be an entry pass to Gardner, but a freshman mistake sent DG to the high post and ended with a little weave and Jamil not wanting to force it and defaulting to ....well, you know the rest. Since the play had broken down, the senior, the leader, the most athletically gifted player has to make the play. Story of the year. In a single play.
8. SJU is more athletic. Harrison is fearless. And they went for him.
No mention of your hero De.Wilson's ineptness. He blew his D on Harrison--took his eyes off him and let him drain the shot. The lockdown gamechanger. And then the dribbling around the perimeter, only to take the game changing shot which of course he choked on. The guy should be on the bench, with his arm around Buzz.
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#5 Disagree. They had two guys foul out before we had one guy foul out.
#6 That was a gag job by SJU. Terrible in bound play. Then you get fouled and an 80% free thrower can't hit a FT, then you let MU come down and score.
#7 We spent too much time dribbling around with very little movement by others. Stagnant
We got a lot of help to get it to OT
If anyone ever finds a way to rob Marquette of credit, it is you. See Davidson game in NCAA opener last year. I'm not even sure you're aware that you do it, but you do
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You are way wrong Ners. Watch the replay. Burton was completely lost as to where to go.
Agreed. Burton was lost and screwed up.
He is a frosh and gets a pass on that. DW taking the final shot is beyond absurd but is fitting considering how this season is turning out. Very disappointing...
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1) Didn't take advantage of STJ shooting 16 for 30 from free throw line.
2) Jamil missed a frontend late in regulation, then Mayo missed two and Gardner one ft in first OT.
3) On four occasions, MU could not inbound ball, three lead to turnovers and one a timeout. WTF?
4) No Taylor, Juan, JJJ and minimum Dawson. Put me on the JJJ transfer train.
5) No Burton in last seven minutes, first OT, then a minute in 2nd OT. UH??
6) 2nd to last possession with 40 seconds left, DWil dribbled top of key for 25 seconds, then Mayo had to take throwup shot, then lead to Mayo's fifth foul. That was key possession and ugly.
7) Last possession, same dribbling around. Not very skilled play.
8) Dwil had two points and played almost entire game.
9) That Harrison three was sick, past NBA range. Was a mental case, but he would have looked great in MU uniform.
10) Two brutal losses in row, but came up short. That 6 points in 11 seconds was awesome.
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Good teams do the little things to win; box out, rebound, d up, protect the ball and make free throws. Please tell me which of these things MU did exceptionally well to win a critical, home game?
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Burton did seem to blow his assignment.
But when you have a PG who has zero chance of making an open 8-10 ft shot, it makes everything that much harder.
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If anyone ever finds a way to rob Marquette of credit, it is you. See Davidson game in NCAA opener last year. I'm not even sure you're aware that you do it, but you do
I give credit when credit is due. Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say? To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs), then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.
I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it. Sorry if you don't agree. I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it. I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged. Where's the consistency?
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Burton did seem to blow his assignment.
But when you have a PG who has zero chance of making an open 8-10 ft shot, it makes everything that much harder.
After watching it again, I'm not sure that Burton did blow his assignment. I think he may have actually recognized the zone and he was suppose to be down low along the baseline. Gardner I think may have been a little slow in recognizing the D (I had thought they wanted Burton at the high post against a zone, but think it was suppose to be Gardner there). Burton was in no man's land because Gardner was still trying to set a double screen (can't against the zone) thinking it was man, instead of popping out to the FT line with Burton down low.
Burton had no where to go, but I'm not sure it was a missed assignment on his part. More experience and I think he pops up to the high post and communicates to Gardner to take the low block.
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Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say?
You are consistent. When that happened to MU, you did to a 500 word screed about peeing down the leg, or some such.
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Truth can set someone free. Dodge it as you see fit
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He shoots that shot a lot over the course of the season. And the defender (Wilson) was looking the other way. Had no clue Harrison even took the shot until after the fact.
exactly... the lockdown boy took a quick nap, and paid.
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6) 2nd to last possession with 40 seconds left, DWil dribbled top of key for 25 seconds, then Mayo had to take throwup shot, then lead to Mayo's fifth foul. That was key possession and ugly.
There were at least 4 times in the game where DW got the inbounds pass and dribbled - going nowhere - for over 20 seconds. It should never, ever even happen once unless you are in a slowdown late in the game.
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I give credit when credit is due. Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say? To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs), then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.
I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it. Sorry if you don't agree. I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it. I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged. Where's the consistency?
Situations like today's last 11 seconds of regulation can always be viewed two different ways, with both being equally accurate. One view says team A blew it. The other says team B seized the opportunity. What dictates that view is based on whether you're a fan of A or B, not whether you're on the side of reality vs bias
My point is, with you, you always recognize and emphasize the failure's of Marquette's opponent. You never give equal credit to Marquette's successes. What Marquette did in those 11 seconds, THEIR part in that, wasn't luck. You fail to see that...ever. It's more an attitude of yours that's consistent with much of what you post rather than playing the role of the "realist" as you try to defend it as being.
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You are right Chicos. I am glad we lost because had we won the game, I would have felt we did not deserve it and I would have had this empty feeling inside.
Thank you for pointing that out to the rest of us.
I give credit when credit is due. Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say? To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs), then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.
I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it. Sorry if you don't agree. I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it. I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged. Where's the consistency?
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I give credit when credit is due. Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say? To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs), then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.
I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it. Sorry if you don't agree. I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it. I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged. Where's the consistency?
I will also give you credit for being very consistent on this type of issue both when MU comes from behind and when MU gives up a lead.
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1. Buzz William's reluctance to let Todd Mayo have the roll he has now all season is the reason why we're 2-3 OOC wins and 1-2 conference wins shy of the NCAAT. What a season he has had this year. I hope that without question he continues to play this much next year. He's earned his coach's trust at this point.
2. I thought the refs allowed a lot of contact on Gardner early in this game. He could have shot 20 FTs.
3. If you want to sum up our PG play this season consider this. Our starting PG nearly has the ball stripped when he's crossing half court so Buzz can call a TO. It very well could have been a play on turnover. If you can't maintain control of the basketball in that situation, what does that say? Our backup PG had two turnovers in 90 seconds. Great guard play guys.
4. Gardner was getting a deserving ovation in regulation as he left the court when everyone in the building figured the game was over. It's obvious he looked dejected losing his last home game of his career. Why did it take Buzz two minutes into overtime to get him back in the game? Did he view his player's frustration as sulking?
5. We have NOBODY on the team other than Todd Mayo that can successfully dribble drive and get a shot. Well we have Burton and Johnson and I know they're freshmen and all but it really hurts your team when you cannot penetrate a defense for the last shot of the game. So many good things can happen when a guy gets in the lane with 6-8 seconds left. Without Mayo in that situation I knew we would lose the game.
6. Either this team has adequate talent and has underachieved or it's lacking in talent. Which is it? Those that wish to give our coach a pass on this season need to acknowledge that he both recruits and coaches these kids.
7. Obviously winning three games in NYC will be an unlikely outcome yet still an outside possibility, but do we have a player on this team that can get this team out of what is sure to be a difficult mindset following two 2OT losses? I'm not sure this team has that guy on it's roster this year.
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Should have had offense in after the time out with 8 seconds left. Derrick should have been on the bench. Buzz'bad.
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At the beginning of the year I was down on DW for being slow and lackadaisical in bringing the ball up court. About midway thru he began to hustle it up and that was good. The thing missing this year was the lack of a sense of urgency and ,sometimes, a reluctance to score.
BTW
Seems like every game the announcers mention MU'S "deficiency " at PG. That's not the"jags" on this board that is the analysts.
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For someone that supposedly knows a lot about Basketball, you are apparently incapable of breaking down film and diagnosing what went wrong.
If it doesn't fit a preordained notion then it didn't happen. Common here, Ners not the only one. But if he really watched the replay he can't be defended on this one.
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If it doesn't fit a preordained notion then it didn't happen. Common here, Ners not the only one. But if he really watched the replay he can't be defended on this one.
Did you not notice his retraction (posted below)? But while we are at it...you have this pre-ordained notion that things could have gotten a lot worse with Dawson running the Point...when Dawson has been given 1 game of 30 minutes (went really well - best win of season), and 1 game of 20 minutes. Meanwhile, your guy who ensures things don't get worse...gets 30+ minutes for 29 games roughly...and is regressing...and gives us all of 2 points today in 48 minutes is our best option?? Talk about a pre-ordained notion? At least my argument is based on 29 games of data showing the results aren't good. And our season record proves as much.
After watching it again, I'm not sure that Burton did blow his assignment. I think he may have actually recognized the zone and he was suppose to be down low along the baseline. Gardner I think may have been a little slow in recognizing the D (I had thought they wanted Burton at the high post against a zone, but think it was suppose to be Gardner there). Burton was in no man's land because Gardner was still trying to set a double screen (can't against the zone) thinking it was man, instead of popping out to the FT line with Burton down low.
Burton had no where to go, but I'm not sure it was a missed assignment on his part. More experience and I think he pops up to the high post and communicates to Gardner to take the low block.
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BTW
Seems like every game the announcers mention MU'S "deficiency " at PG. That's not the"jags" on this board that is the analysts.
We do have a deficiency at point guard. NOBODY denies that. Some, though, don't think starting and playing 25 minutes a guy who's a bigger deficiency is the answer to the problem.
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Should have had offense in after the time out with 8 seconds left. Derrick should have been on the bench. Buzz'bad.
With Todd fouled out, are you saying that Dawson, with 2 TO's in 90 seconds of play, having sat for an hour, should have been on the floor? Buzz basically played 7 today. With Todd out, if you want to take Derrick out, do you want (A) Otule, (B) a freshman who hasn't played for an hour, (C) Juan/STjr/JJJ, none of whom have taken their sweats off?
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If anyone ever finds a way to rob Marquette of credit, it is you. See Davidson game in NCAA opener last year. I'm not even sure you're aware that you do it, but you do
What did Chicos say that is false?
I'm the biggest MU fan I know, and a pretty darn positive-thinking one, and it was obvious that St. John's gagged to keep us in it. We still had to make plays, and was thrilled we did, but a crap inbounds pass AND a front-end brick within seconds of each other? If that isn't a choke, there is no such thing.
Now, I'm not talking about Chicos' patterns of comments. I'm talking about this particular comment.
We had a bazillion chances to win this game, some of which we were handed, some of which we earned, and yet there are still folks who want to blame the refs. Ugh.
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4. Gardner was getting a deserving ovation in regulation as he left the court when everyone in the building figured the game was over. It's obvious he looked dejected losing his last home game of his career. Why did it take Buzz two minutes into overtime to get him back in the game? Did he view his player's frustration as sulking?
5. We have NOBODY on the team other than Todd Mayo that can successfully dribble drive and get a shot. Well we have Burton and Johnson and I know they're freshmen and all but it really hurts your team when you cannot penetrate a defense for the last shot of the game. So many good things can happen when a guy gets in the lane with 6-8 seconds left. Without Mayo in that situation I knew we would lose the game.
4. In our last overtime game, it actually took Buzz longer to get DG in. Otule played until there was 2:55 left.
5. But Thomas and Derrick both played 20+ minutes more than Mayo. Someone needs to ask Buzz "WHY??" We all enjoy watching a PG dribble the ball for 20 seconds going nowhere... but c'mon, man.
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No, play the guy who hasn't made a jump shot all season
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With Todd fouled out, are you saying that Dawson, with 2 TO's in 90 seconds of play, having sat for an hour, should have been on the floor? Buzz basically played 7 today. With Todd out, if you want to take Derrick out, do you want (A) Otule, (B) a freshman who hasn't played for an hour, (C) Juan/STjr/JJJ, none of whom have taken their sweats off?
Based on 31 games, absolutely yes. Derrick should never, ever, ever be on the floor for a last possession where you need a basket to win. EVER.
It's really not hard to see.
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4.
5. But Thomas and Derrick both played 20+ minutes more than Mayo. Someone needs to ask Buzz "WHY??" We all enjoy watching a PG dribble the ball for 20 seconds going nowhere... but c'mon, man.
Thanks in part to John Dawson, Todd had 2 quick fouls and had to sit much of the first half. As it is, he fouled out in his 27 minutes. Would you have preferred that to happen with 13 minutes left in regulation? LOL
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4. In our last overtime game, it actually took Buzz longer to get DG in. Otule played until there was 2:55 left.
5. But Thomas and Derrick both played 20+ minutes more than Mayo. Someone needs to ask Buzz "WHY??" We all enjoy watching a PG dribble the ball for 20 seconds going nowhere... but c'mon, man.
Mayo had two fouls in 5 minutes in the first half. That explains your minute differential.
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If D-Wil is all we got to take the last shot--WE ARE HURTING! BAD!
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Mayo had two fouls in 5 minutes in the first half. That explains your minute differential.
Sounds good - except it has been the same pretty much every single game. Derrick leads the team in minutes played, Jake is second.
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Team played hard...entertaining game.
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If Todd doesn't get into foul trouble, eventually Jake goes to the bench for a couple of minutes. With Todd sitting, Buzz really had no other choice at the 2. Dawson wasn't going to get minutes from Derrick today. Todd played a ton of minutes during the second half and OT, even taking over at PG when Derrick cramped. There really isn't room to complain about his minutes TODAY.
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Team played hard...entertaining game.
Emotionally balanced people are so annoying at a time like this!
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If Todd doesn't get into foul trouble, eventually Jake goes to the bench for a couple of minutes. With Todd sitting, Buzz really had no other choice at the 2. Dawson wasn't going to get minutes from Derrick today. Todd played a ton of minutes during the second half and OT, even taking over at PG when Derrick cramped. There really isn't room to complain about his minutes TODAY.
This is correct, and truth be told, Jake played a pretty darn good game today, which I assume also explains why Burton didn't see much time in the second half...Jake, Mayo, and Jamil were all pretty good.
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Agree with Navin. Jake played hustle. Lots of good rebounds.
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If anyone ever finds a way to rob Marquette of credit, it is you. See Davidson game in NCAA opener last year. I'm not even sure you're aware that you do it, but you do
Listen, the Crean love affair is extremely annoying, no one is denying that. But Chicos is absolutely right about the Davidson game and the officiating today. It's not taking away credit, it is pointing out the obvious to those who can look at things objectively.
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ahhh come on youse guys....all this negativity....all we have to do is win the rest of our games this year and we will be NCAA champs....we can do it....come on get on board the Buzz Train !!! (is there a sarcasm font on this board?)
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1. The key possession, like was said earlier, was the one before the last one. We got the ball with plenty of time to get a good shot and GUARANTEE that we would get the ball last (the old 2 for 1). Instead it was a whole lot of nothing. That goes on the coaching staff. You have to get a shot up at about :45 seconds, leaving plenty of time.
2. For what it's worth, Buzz was explaining to Burton with the play board as they were leaving the huddle. It actually reminded me of the end of regulation at DePaul when Buzz was on the court telling Jamil where to go. That play also was terrible.
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1. The key possession, like was said earlier, was the one before the last one. We got the ball with plenty of time to get a good shot and GUARANTEE that we would get the ball last (the old 2 for 1). Instead it was a whole lot of nothing. That goes on the coaching staff. You have to get a shot up at about :45 seconds, leaving plenty of time.
2. For what it's worth, Buzz was explaining to Burton with the play board as they were leaving the huddle. It actually reminded me of the end of regulation at DePaul when Buzz was on the court telling Jamil where to go. That play also was terrible.
Very good point...couldn't believe we didn't go for the 2 for 1 at that point..
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Very good point...couldn't believe we didn't go for the 2 for 1 at that point..
Someone who is a, "whiner" posed this question the other day about the preciousness of the opening tip and possessions. If the tip is so important that Buzz has to start Otule and sit Gardner, why is it that he never goes for the 2 for 1, when the situation presents itself.
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#5 Disagree. They had two guys foul out before we had one guy foul out.
So this is to the point that the refs were really on our side after all? Funny logic.
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We made mistakes, but I really thought we played well today.
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The offense all year was dribble around for awhile then find someone to throw something up and hurt the rim/backboard, etc.
Maybe need to add Shooting to the recruiting checklist, switch-ables are great and all but it does help to put a few in the basket too....
S16, S16, E8 and Dud....I'll take that every 4 years, thank you Seniors!!
Next year looks bleak though so maybe they are flipping the 4 year order before we go on another postseason binge.
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Burton played very well in the first half. He is a dominant player. Why didn't Buzz play him in the second half? Why did Buzz play De Wilson so much in the second half? He was beaten repeatedly on defense and as we all know is awful on offense!
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There wasn't a breakdown between Burton and Gardner...you aren't trying to get to your go to attempt at the 8 second mark and Gardner and Burton were trying to get into a favorable switch..
I notice you posted a statement by me noted as a "retraction," all along I have indicated that there was a breakdown in the play that led to a breakdown between Burton and Gardner. My follow up statement was just that after rewatching it, the first appearance that it was Burton's error may not be right, rather it may have been on Gardner.
They were most definitely not trying to get into a favorable switch.
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Someone who is a, "whiner" posed this question the other day about the preciousness of the opening tip and possessions. If the tip is so important that Buzz has to start Otule and sit Gardner, why is it that he never goes for the 2 for 1, when the situation presents itself.
That is one of my pet peeves in college hoops - such a simple, common sense move, yet it is not only Buzz that doesn't do it. I'd guess it is more like 75% of coaches. In the NBA it is standard operating procedure.
But there have been so many times this year where we have the ball with a minute to a minute and ten seconds and we run the clock all the way down and take a shot with 30 seconds left. I scream at the TV every time Buzz does that. Why not run a play right away? If the defense stops it, re-set. But id you get a shot off in under 20 seconds, you are gonna get the ball back again.
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So this is to the point that the refs were really on our side after all? Funny logic.
No, it is to the point that to say all the close calls in the last 20 minutes of the game went against us is absurd.
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Situations like today's last 11 seconds of regulation can always be viewed two different ways, with both being equally accurate. One view says team A blew it. The other says team B seized the opportunity. What dictates that view is based on whether you're a fan of A or B, not whether you're on the side of reality vs bias
My point is, with you, you always recognize and emphasize the failure's of Marquette's opponent. You never give equal credit to Marquette's successes. What Marquette did in those 11 seconds, THEIR part in that, wasn't luck. You fail to see that...ever. It's more an attitude of yours that's consistent with much of what you post rather than playing the role of the "realist" as you try to defend it as being.
Always, never....lazy words.
I'm looking for consistency. If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it. If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it. If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.
I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did. Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up. SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written. Fans are a funny bunch.
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No, it is to the point that to say all the close calls in the last 20 minutes of the game went against us is absurd.
That is not what anyone said.
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Always, never....lazy words.
I'm looking for consistency. If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it. If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it. If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.
I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did. Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up. SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written. Fans are a funny bunch.
Same old sheet from CBB.
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I know this will SHOCK you, but SJU fans thought the refs screwed them. Same game, different perspective based on which ox is in the process of being gored and the lens from which one sits.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/conversation?gameId=400504601
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Someone who is a, "whiner" posed this question the other day about the preciousness of the opening tip and possessions. If the tip is so important that Buzz has to start Otule and sit Gardner, why is it that he never goes for the 2 for 1, when the situation presents itself.
This is a great question. I know, because I asked it -- OK, I screamed it -- while watching the game with two MU buds. "2-for-1! Go for the 2-for-1! Why do we NEVER go for the 2-for-1?!?!?!"
Rather than have Derrick dribble for 25 seconds there, you get the rock to Mayo immediately so he can take it hard to the hoop. If he's open or can draw a foul, shoot. If he's covered, pitch out to Jake or Jamil for the 3. Even if you come away with nothing, you will have the final possession.
But no. I'd love to ask Buzz why he never does this. It's so elementary.
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MU had a chance for a 2-for-1 in the Georgetown game in the last minute but dribbled 30 feet out for 25 seconds. Granted, things played out in their favor.
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We also tried to run the "Vander" play with Todd at the end of the first OT. It would have been awesome if it had worked, since it was one day short of being the anniversary of the Vander shot to beat St. John's in OT at the Garden.
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That is not what anyone said.
You're right...oh wait...only the thread starter said it
"5. The officiating was like MU was on the road. Every close call over the last 10 minutes of regulation and the two OT's went against MU."
Same old sheet from We R Final Four
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Finally got around to listening to MUBB basketball show from last week, very surprised to hear Buzz P&M-ing about the schedule this year and implying MU got screwed.......though he also adds on that it screwed all the teams in Big East, seems like something you wouldn't expect from Buzz.
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Finally got around to listening to MUBB basketball show from last week, very surprised to hear Buzz P&M-ing about the schedule this year and implying MU got screwed.......though he also adds on that it screwed all the teams in Big East, seems like something you wouldn't expect from Buzz.
What was the complaint?
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Always, never....lazy words.
I'm looking for consistency. If MU were to do this, people here would say we blew it. If a team we don't like does it, we would say that team blew it. If MU benefits from it, then we say what a great comeback MU made.
I actually did both, gave MU credit for coming back, but apparently made the absurd conclusion that they also got a lot of help....which of course they did. Not sure why stating the truth gets people riled up. SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion. I have no doubt whatsoever if the shoe was on the other foot or a team that posters here don't care for were in the same situation, all of a sudden a different meme would be written. Fans are a funny bunch.
I clearly acknowledged this in my last response. And I went on to point out that both perspectives are true. The determining factor in one's perspective is rooting interest. I find it unusual that you typically (a wrod of much more effort ;) ) take the perspective of Marquette's opponent. Once again, NOTHING Marquette did in those last 11 seconds were luck. Nothing. Nada. (Sorry for more lazy words).
SJU helped us enormously to get to OT in my opinion.
Marquette did an incredible job of capitalizing on their opportunities with their backs against the wall!!! That's how I would expect a fan of a team to view that sequence. That's all I was saying. And my original point to you is it seems to be a pattern. Maybe it's intentionally inflamatory, idk. Probably not much more to discuss without committing serious mental masturbation, so that's all
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Listen, the Crean love affair is extremely annoying, no one is denying that. But Chicos is absolutely right about the Davidson game and the officiating today. It's not taking away credit, it is pointing out the obvious to those who can look at things objectively.
What's the obvious? That SJ cracked the door open? Or that Marquette kicked it in after it was cracked? Or both?
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What did Chicos say that is false?
I'm the biggest MU fan I know, and a pretty darn positive-thinking one, and it was obvious that St. John's gagged to keep us in it. We still had to make plays, and was thrilled we did, but a crap inbounds pass AND a front-end brick within seconds of each other? If that isn't a choke, there is no such thing.
Now, I'm not talking about Chicos' patterns of comments. I'm talking about this particular comment.
We had a bazillion chances to win this game, some of which we were handed, some of which we earned, and yet there are still folks who want to blame the refs. Ugh.
Can't really get my hands around what you wrote. You're not referring to his pattern...I clearly was. You're frustraed people are blaming the refs (?). No where in any of my posts did I even mention them. I also never refuted what Chicos said...that SJ made errors.
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I clearly acknowledged this in my last response. And I went on to point out that both perspectives are true. The determining factor in one's perspective is rooting interest. I find it unusual that you typically (a wrod of much more effort ;) ) take the perspective of Marquette's opponent. Once again, NOTHING Marquette did in those last 11 seconds were luck. Nothing. Nada. (Sorry for more lazy words).
Marquette did an incredible job of capitalizing on their opportunities with their backs against the wall!!! That's how I would expect a fan of a team to view that sequence. That's all I was saying. And my original point to you is it seems to be a pattern. Maybe it's intentionally inflamatory, idk. Probably not much more to discuss without committing serious mental masturbation, so that's all
I'm as big a MU fan as anyone out there. I try to view things logically, maybe that's why I'm a left brain guy. I believe for what happened yesterday, multiple things had to happen. I guess some people can say it was all MU (you didn't say that, nor am I accusing you of this), but I'd rather state the obvious and factual portion....it just seems to me that you and others question fandom when someone points out that truth. I don't get it. To each their own.
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What's the obvious? That SJ cracked the door open? Or that Marquette kicked it in after it was cracked? Or both?
It's obvious that St. Johns played horrible at the end of regulation and handed it to us (same as Davidson). Sure, Jake made a great play, but there was more fault in St. John's, than positives from MU. MU did exactly what it was supposed to do, capitalize on St John's mistakes. I look at things objectively, sometimes the team and Buzz are great (Miami last year) sometimes they are awful (a good majority of this season). But I am always more interested in how they play rather than the results.
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I give credit when credit is due. Let me ask you this question, if MU was up 6 points with 11 seconds left and the other team forced OT what would you say? To get there we had to foul them (they make 2 FTs), then we had to inbound the ball to them for a layup (SJU should get an assist on that play), then after still leading by 2 we get fouled and missed the front end of a one and one and then we allowed them to come down and score.
I give MU the credit for staying in the game, making the shots....all I said is SJU provided the help....lots of it. Sorry if you don't agree. I suspect if the shoe was on the other foot and MU allowed someone else to do that to us, we would say we blew it. I know for a fact if a certain other team allowed someone else to do it, 90% of people here would say they gagged. Where's the consistency?
I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them. I have no issue with that. It's just that you have this trollish tone. I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune. I know you will deny this. Just can't shake the feeling.
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I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them. I have no issue with that. It's just that you have this trollish tone. I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune. I know you will deny this. Just can't shake the feeling.
Comebacks are nearly always a combination of good plays by the team making the comeback and one mistake (Davidson) or more (St Johns) by the team losing the lead. Chicos (since April 8, 2008) feels we're lucky whenever we come from behind and are choking dogs when our opponents do. Lose/lose philosophy that will make most people around you miserable but you can defend as being "objective". Sad.
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I know you claim (over and over again) that you only call them as you see them. I have no issue with that. It's just that you have this trollish tone. I always sense that you are quietly happy when MU has bad fortune. I know you will deny this. Just can't shake the feeling.
I'm sure there are many feelings you can't shake...that's on you.
Nothing I said was inaccurate about that finish in regulation, absolutely NOTHING. If MU had won, Buzz would have said we were lucky....just as he has in the past. OK for Buzz to say, not ok for an objective fan to say it.
Go figure. There is nothing trollish at all about what I said, its just you don't have the ability to separate reality from fandom. Some of us do. It's ok, many fans can't do it. They feel anything that leads to a win is 100% because of their team, and anything that leads to a loss is because the refs jobbed them or something else.
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Comebacks are nearly always a combination of good plays by the team making the comeback and one mistake (Davidson) or more (St Johns) by the team losing the lead. Chicos (since April 8, 2008) feels we're lucky whenever we come from behind and are choking dogs when our opponents do. Lose/lose philosophy that will make most people around you miserable but you can defend as being "objective". Sad.
Sentence one = correct except actually Davidson made 3 mistakes, but who is counting...Buzz said we were lucky...go figure.
Sentences 2 - 4, incorrect. Search is your friend here. I've said we were lucky during some games (or a derivative of that..."fortunate", etc) prior to Buzz and I've also said we have choked (pissed away, other synonyms) during TC's tenure. Just go to that little magnifying glass up there and type in the words.
Just because you don't like objectivity and want to label people that are in a different light doesn't mean you get to change the facts. This has been a tough year for everyone, probably more so for you than anyone else I should suspect because of the bloviating the last few years. Fortunately, MU still has a chance in the BET which is going to be a lot easier to win than any of the last 9 years in the old Big East. Buzz is a really good coach.....you made him out to be Johnny Wooden at times.
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I'm sure there are many feelings you can't shake...that's on you.
Nothing I said was inaccurate about that finish in regulation, absolutely NOTHING. If MU had won, Buzz would have said we were lucky....just as he has in the past. OK for Buzz to say, not ok for an objective fan to say it.
Go figure. There is nothing trollish at all about what I said, its just you don't have the ability to separate reality from fandom. Some of us do. It's ok, many fans can't do it. They feel anything that leads to a win is 100% because of their team, and anything that leads to a loss is because the refs jobbed them or something else.
Chico's your tone on issues like this do come off as trollish, I personally don't think that is the intention as you are incredibly consistent on these issues whether for or against MU.
I do have an issue though with the term lucky. On the key inbounds play, MU played superb defense to deny the ball to any player putting the person inbounding the ball into a crisis. Through it away, (call timeout if possible) or try to throw it off the defender. He chose the latter. Reality in that case is great defense by MU, not fandom, not St. John's screwing up. We were lucky that the ball stayed in bounds and ended up in Derricks hands, but it was set up by a great defensive stop.
Also in regards to officials. In many cases you are correct the officials do not decide the game, what you fail to acknowledge though and then defy your supposedly rational left brain approach to separating reality from fandom is sometimes the officials do decide the outcome of the game. Life is not left brain or right brain, black or white it is always a gradient.
I do feel that a rational analysis of the end of the game will reveal far more no calls against St. Johns that did impact the final score in this case against us. Examples.
Baseline drive with Jamil in position offensive player pushes off on a step back. Foul called on Jamil, should be a no call or offensive foul…significant impact on outcome.
Baseline drive by St. John's. Player hooks defender and takes too many steps…scores 2 points. Missed calls…offensive foul for hooking defender, travel. Again significant impact.
Last play in OT, Mayo is fouled twice (first blocking foul, then a reach that caused a TO) and the St. John's player travels with 2 s left all no calls. Again significant impact on the outcome.
Not all calls are created equal, sometimes mistakes don't balance out and in a 2-OT game, one unbalanced call does decide the outcome.
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Sentence one = correct except actually Davidson made 3 mistakes, but who is counting...Buzz said we were lucky...go figure.
Made 3-4 free throws, 75% is not perfect but not a mistake. Made a basket on their other possession down the stretch, not a mistake. Committed a turnover on their last possession, a mistake.
In further addressing your negativity which you pass off as objectivity, consider this. When a call or a bad bounce goes against MU in the waning moments, you invariably say it's not the reason we lost. Unlucky? No way. Each team get 65 possessions, all equally important, calls balance out over the course of a game, blah, blah blah. So that last Davidson TO is NOT why we won, it's NOT lucky. It just SEEMS that way to the uneducated fan who doesn't realize that games are NOT won or lost in the final possessions but in the aggregate of equally valued possessions over 40 minutes. You fall all over yourself in contradiction trying to ensure you give MU the least amount of credit possible for all possible combinations and permutations and pass it off as objectivity. Pretty obvious to those of us who pay attention.