1. Creighton is just the type of team we're going to have trouble with
2. Early fouls in the 2nd half swung this game bigtime
3. Although MU got to with 3-4 several times, it never really felt like Creighton was losing control
4. Gardner was outplayed by Otule on both ends of the floor. Plus, Creighton is a TERRIBLE matchup for Gardner
5. Jamil was ineffective tonight. Really could have used something from him in the first half
6. Mayo looked like he was trying to do too much once we cut it close
7. Solid on the defensive end until late. Not much you can do when Doug is hitting from halfcourt
8. Creighton's 5-out offensive is tough to stop when they can all shoot. You've gotta be in their grill, but that opens up cutting/driving lanes and backdoor cuts
9. 12/22 3s is tough to overcome. And I wouldn't say many of those were uncontested
10. 20/36 from the FT line is not going to get it done.
Creighton is simply better. I really have no idea what Marquette could have done differently.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
Creighton is simply better. I really have no idea what Marquette could have done differently.
Idk, I think they had chances to take the lead only to blow all those chances with dumb plays. Would've been interesting had they taken the lead. They didn't play that well...left a lot out there
11. the Creighton fan was correct about the refs having an influence on the game. I am not saying they were unfair I am just saying they called all the flops. both theirs and ours.
Agree that Creighton is just better...but we didn't execute down the stretch on plays that could have gotten us right back into the game. Mayo getting stripped on the breakaway was a killer.
Quote from: NickelDimer on February 19, 2014, 09:28:47 PM
Idk, I think they had chances to take the lead only to blow all those chances with dumb plays. Would've been interesting had they taken the lead. They didn't play that well...left a lot out there
I guess what I meant is outside of playing better. I thought the game plan and personnel were fine.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:33:25 PM
I guess what I meant is outside of playing better. I thought the game plan and personnel were fine.
Yeah this wasn't on Buzz...regardless of what some will say
so is it official now? need to win the tourney to get in? Even if we beat villanova only having one good win won't do it. just my amateur opinion
Can't blame fouls. CU had 30 to MU's 22. Just seemed bad in second half.
I thought DWil was abit gassed in second half. Never left the game.
No JJJ, no Dawson, limited Juan, limited Taylor, limited Burton to fouls.
Said in another thread, this was the most a team has layed off Dwil on the perimeter. They left him at free throw line wide open. That is real liability, but Buzz has no other solutions at this point. Shame.
Maybe if free throws fell early in game, it might have changed the team's mindset, but didn't happen.
Jamil had to step up and didn't happen. Terrible offensive game, terrible defensive game, especially when he picked up 3 fouls in five minutes.
Got it close at times, then mistakes/turnovers happened. Opened second half with 4 turnovers in first five possessions.
My thoughts are that Creighton is a really awesomely balanced team and will go far in the tourney. Period, the better team won.
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on February 19, 2014, 09:45:19 PM
My thoughts are that Creighton is a really awesomely balanced team and will go far in the tourney. Period, the better team won.
If they draw a team like a SDSU or SJU that has a lot of long, athletic wings, they're in trouble.
Quote from: nyg on February 19, 2014, 09:40:04 PM
Can't blame fouls. CU had 30 to MU's 22. Just seemed bad in second half.
\
That's a ridiculous way to look at it. I was there. This game was unwatchable. The officials totally took over. MU was just trying to play basketball. I don't want to watch if its officiated that way. I would like to hear anyone say that they thought this was a good basketball game, or that it suffered because of the players. Just a shame.
Quote from: MUfan12 on February 19, 2014, 09:49:19 PM
If they draw a team like a SDSU or SJU that has a lot of long, athletic wings, they're in trouble.
Not if Creighton plays with balance like it has all year. And they are über composed. IMHO.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
Creighton is simply better. I really have no idea what Marquette could have done differently.
I agree that Creighton is simply better, but I have a few ideas what Marquette could have done differently.
How about if we start with something as simple as making a few of the
16 freakin' free throws we missed?
Also, maybe not lose track of Wragge for six 3-pointers? It's actually a fairly simple assignment but whoever was on him seemed to lose focus for a brief second and then - bang - it was too late.
Also, how about not giving up about a half-dozen wide-open layups?
Also, needed more out of Jamil.
So there's a start. Not sure if all of that would have added up to victory but at least doing a few of those things differently might have kept us from getting wiped out on our home court.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
Creighton is simply better. I really have no idea what Marquette could have done differently.
I said basically this same thing about 3-4 times during the game. Sometimes you just get beat by a better team.
Quote from: karavotsos on February 19, 2014, 09:50:10 PM
That's a ridiculous way to look at it. I was there. This game was unwatchable. The officials totally took over. MU was just trying to play basketball. I don't want to watch if its officiated that way. I would like to hear anyone say that they thought this was a good basketball game, or that it suffered because of the players. Just a shame.
It was horrendous. Bad calls both ways, but the treatment McDermott got was absurd. No one had any idea what a foul was. Did it influence the outcome? No. But it sure as hell influenced the game.
I used to love Jamil's pink sneaks BUT tonight showed it is time to retire them, needed a whole lot more from Jamil and whole lot more missed buckets by them Jay shooters
Creighton flops and wins the Big East in its first year in the league. We miss 15 FTs.Nobody steps up for MU. Deflating game to be at. NIT this year with our talent. Credit them for building a team that plays together and smart.Coach McD must be a savant
Place seemed half-full for a huge game.
Burton had 11 points. Why did he only play 10 minutes?
So is this Creighton's year with McDermott, Wragge and 2 other senior starters?
Will they take a step back next year or have they got replenishments in the recruitment pipeline?
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on February 19, 2014, 09:45:19 PM
My thoughts are that Creighton is a really awesomely balanced team and will go far in the tourney. Period, the better team won.
Correct. They are much better than MU and will be dangerous in the NCAA tourney. So many shooters.
I wish we had the refs from the Xavier game last Saturday...what can you do?
I wish Denzel Washington was there tonight to say a few words like - "LET THE BOYS PLAY!"
Make half our misses from the stripe, different game in the last 4 minutes.
Tough to keep McDoormat down for more than a half. Killed us in the 2nd with 17 big ones.
When we would go on a little run to get back in it, we just couldn't seem to get over the hump like teams in the past couple years. Foul calls affect pacing and rhythm of the game, but so do mistakes in transition like Todd made.
Basically have to win at Nova and then sweep MSG (20+ wins) to make it into the dance. Tall order for this team.
Those in attendance tonight included Scottie Pippen and OJ Mayo.
Quote from: 79Warrior on February 19, 2014, 10:49:19 PM
Correct. They are much better than MU and will be dangerous in the NCAA tourney. So many shooters.
Agreed, but with the way they rely on shooting, they're one of those teams that will have 1 bad game out of every 6 when playing other good teams. I think they're a great team, but they're also a team very susceptible to have a "bad" game in the NCAA tourney.
Adding one - fans in attendance were good tonight. I thought the constant booing of Creighton when they had the ball was awesome - while it lasted.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 19, 2014, 10:46:40 PM
So is this Creighton's year with McDermott, Wragge and 2 other senior starters?
Will they take a step back next year or have they got replenishments in the recruitment pipeline?
In the short term (next 2-3 years), this is it for them; this is their year. They will finish 6-8 in the Big East next year. Their incoming classes are nothing spectacular
In the long term they will be fine. They have a solid program set up and are in a good conference
My thoughts can be summed up rather concisely: NPOY-led Creighton is a very good team. They are better than we are.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on February 19, 2014, 11:13:17 PM
In the short term (next 2-3 years), this is it for them; this is their year. They will finish 6-8 in the Big East next year. Their incoming classes are nothing spectacular
In the long term they will be fine. They have a solid program set up and are in a good conference
I think we should all be rooting for a deep Creighton run in March. The type of run that can instantly gain traction on the recruiting trail.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:27:06 PM
Creighton is simply better. I really have no idea what Marquette could have done differently.
Agree...Creighton poses too many problems with their ability to space floor and hit 3's. Very difficult to defend...and we have too many challenges offensively to be able to keep up in a high scoring affair.
not just NPOY but also best 3pt shooter in the country, great complimentary players - they are a great team
Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 19, 2014, 11:24:24 PM
My thoughts can be summed up rather concisely: NPOY-led Creighton is a very good team. They are better than we are.
Creighton was better on every level. They had far quicker and more athletic players, also they played smart. That is a pretty tough combination to beat.
Sad I have to add to my list...
11. Once again, after a loss, the ridiculous posts and posters come out of the woodwork. So much better the last few weeks when we were winning and they had no leg to stand on.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 19, 2014, 09:33:25 PM
I guess what I meant is outside of playing better. I thought the game plan and personnel were fine.
Agreed, we needed them to miss more outside shots and not waste possessions on the offensive end with early jumpers, turnovers, fouls, etc..
Additional thoughts...
Burton is gradually replacing Mayo as my most frustrating player. It's not because he isn't talented or lacks effort, but he just can't differentiate between good and bad shots or good and bad fouls. If/when he figures it out he'll be a beast.
The whole team needs to trust the offense and the game plan a little more. When they run through their sets and move the ball they are quite effective. When they don't it's painful.
I know I should appreciate how Creighton plays/executes but they really annoy the crap out of me.
McDermott is a great college bball player but I don't see why many think he will be a good NBA player. He scores most of his points by outside shots off good ball movement and crafty high bball IQ plays. The athleticism isn't there to create his own shot unless exploiting a mismatch and he can be a liability on defense. I don't want to take anything away from what he has accomplished at this level, but I just don't see it translating at the next level.
The players on this MU team seem to come up just short in some areas that prevent them from being a very good to great team. If Jake and DG were just a bit more athletic, if Jamil were just a step quicker, if DWilson could just knock down a few shots and FTs, if Burton could just play a little smarter, if Otule had just a little more offensive ability...
Quote from: Niv Berkowitz on February 19, 2014, 09:52:05 PM
Not if Creighton plays with balance like it has all year. And they are über composed. IMHO.
Creighton is really good offensively but I just don't think they have the defense. Since 2004 here are the teams that have had a defensive ranking (according to Pomeroy) greater than 25th who have made the Final Four:
2005 Michigan State #32
2005 Louisville #37
2011 VCU #84
2011 Butler #44
2013 Michigan #48
Creighton's current rating is #73. So in the last ten years, only VCU had a lower ranking and the next lowest team had a #48.
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 19, 2014, 11:47:22 PM
Creighton is really good offensively but I just don't think they have the defense. Since 2004 here are the teams that have had a defensive ranking (according to Pomeroy) greater than 25th who have made the Final Four:
2005 Michigan State #32
2005 Louisville #37
2011 VCU #84
2011 Butler #44
2013 Michigan #48
Creighton's current rating is #73. So in the last ten years, only VCU had a lower ranking and the next lowest team had a #48.
Don't know the numbers after tonight, but prior to the game Creighton was #1 in scoring defense in conference games.
Quote from: CreightonWarrior on February 19, 2014, 11:50:12 PM
Don't know the numbers after tonight, but prior to the game Creighton was #1 in scoring defense in conference games.
That isn't tempo free. Pomeroy calculates per tempo. Creighton plays slow so the defense looks better. Creighton's tempo is 205th in the country.
Quote from: MUSF on February 19, 2014, 11:46:34 PM
Agreed, we needed them to miss more outside shots and not waste possessions on the offensive end with early jumpers, turnovers, fouls, etc..
Additional thoughts...
Burton is gradually replacing Mayo as my most frustrating player. It's not because he isn't talented or lacks effort, but he just can't differentiate between good and bad shots or good and bad fouls. If/when he figures it out he'll be a beast.
The whole team needs to trust the offense and the game plan a little more. When they run through their sets and move the ball they are quite effective. When they don't it's painful.
I know I should appreciate how Creighton plays/executes but they really annoy the crap out of me.
McDermott is a great college bball player but I don't see why many think he will be a good NBA player. He scores most of his points by outside shots off good ball movement and crafty high bball IQ plays. The athleticism isn't there to create his own shot unless exploiting a mismatch and he can be a liability on defense. I don't want to take anything away from what he has accomplished at this level, but I just don't see it translating at the next level.
The players on this MU team seem to come up just short in some areas that prevent them from being a very good to great team. If Jake and DG were just a bit more athletic, if Jamil were just a step quicker, if DWilson could just knock down a few shots and FTs, if Burton could just play a little smarter, if Otule had just a little more offensive ability...
I am not sure why you think he can't create his own shot. The left handed drive at the end of the game was about as self created a shot your ever going to see.
Quote from: Chris Columbo on February 19, 2014, 11:52:53 PM
I am not sure why you think he can't create his own shot. The left handed drive at the end of the game was about as self created a shot your ever going to see.
As I said, unless exploiting a mismatch. Most of his drives were against smaller guards after switches or against JWilson when he was playing with 4 fouls. Those plays are a great example of how he uses his superior bball IQ, crafty moves, and his knack for finding a way to get the ball in the basket. Like I said, he is a great college bball player, but I think many of those drives would get stuffed back in his face in the NBA. He just doesn't have the athletic ability to take NBA 2s and 3s off the dribble.
Quote from: Bleuteaux on February 19, 2014, 11:13:17 PM
In the short term (next 2-3 years), this is it for them; this is their year. They will finish 6-8 in the Big East next year. Their incoming classes are nothing spectacular
In the long term they will be fine. They have a solid program set up and are in a good conference
Creighton will drop next season, but they have a sneaky good class coming in. McBuckets Sr. has also stepped up his recruiting game. No more 3 and 2 stars for the Jays. They are hunting 4 stars. They have the potential to turn themselves into a perennial middle of the conference type team.
I just looked at the box score and I cannot help but be impressed by Burton's play or at least his potential. I know he has a long way to go with his defense and his offensive game could be more polished but look at his line in the box score with only playing ten minutes. He had too many turnovers, maybe trying to do too much and fouls, his defense is a little lacking. He has the potential to be a great player.
McDermott is a beast. Great off the ball movement. Very active. Picture perfect form on his shot with beyond NBA 3 pt. range. Easy to see why he's likely to be Player of the Year. Definite lottery pick and has Boston Celtic written all over his heine.
What was frustrating to me, was the fact we would close the gap to 4-5 pts, and all hell would broke loose. Next thing U know, they're back up 10 or 12 pts. Officiating was very weird to me the whole night. However, we just didn't have that killer instinct at all throughout the evening.
My fear is that Creighton will become the "duke" of the big east conference:/
I hate them
Quote from: MU82 on February 19, 2014, 09:54:02 PM
I agree that Creighton is simply better, but I have a few ideas what Marquette could have done differently.
How about if we start with something as simple as making a few of the 16 freakin' free throws we missed?
Also, maybe not lose track of Wragge for six 3-pointers? It's actually a fairly simple assignment but whoever was on him seemed to lose focus for a brief second and then - bang - it was too late.
Also, how about not giving up about a half-dozen wide-open layups?
Also, needed more out of Jamil.
So there's a start. Not sure if all of that would have added up to victory but at least doing a few of those things differently might have kept us from getting wiped out on our home court.
Agree about the FTs. Don't agree with much else.
Wragge was open because neither Otule nor Gardner can chase guys all over the court, so as long as one of them is on the court, a shooter was going to get open.
Driving lanes were open because of their ability to spread the floor with all five guys and the resulting respect we had to show all of their players on the perimeter.
We needed more out of everybody, not just Jamil.
I know we don't want to rehash this, but they also defensed us properly, totally ignoring Derrick Wilson and crowding Gardner. To his credit Derrick played much better this time than the first time around against Creighton.
Finally, I don't see how we beat this team other than letting them shoot the 3 and hoping they have an off night, which will be a disaster more often than not. Other option is to forget Otule and Gardner and go back to massive substitutions with the other guys and try to wear them out. Neither are promising options.
Quote from: MUSF on February 19, 2014, 11:46:34 PM
The whole team needs to trust the offense and the game plan a little more. When they run through their sets and move the ball they are quite effective. When they don't it's painful.
Agree strongly with this point. There is a stretch in every game where we go several consecutive possessions settling for long jump shots, often with plenty of time on the shot clock. Happened again last night. And when you shoot like we do, that is a recipe for failure.
Seems like this is indicative of the game. We got down to 5 points amd Mayo makes a steal and seems to have a somewhat easy layup only to get picked just before the shot, then we play good defense again on the next play and McDermott chucks up a near half court shot as the shot clock expires to easily swish a 3. What can a team do?
Creighton is going to be one of the toughest teams in the tourney. They everything well, and nothing very poorly.
I know I'm taking them in the final four.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on February 20, 2014, 06:44:12 AM
My fear is that Creighton will become the "duke" of the big east conference:/
I hate them
That would be a good thing for the Big East.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 20, 2014, 01:31:36 AM
Creighton will drop next season, but they have a sneaky good class coming in. McBuckets Sr. has also stepped up his recruiting game. No more 3 and 2 stars for the Jays. They are hunting 4 stars. They have the potential to turn themselves into a perennial middle of the conference type team.
I think you are aiming low. They have a chance to be one of the top teams in the conference longer term if they can sustain things. Very supportive fans, been good for a long time under Dana and now McDermott. I will be interested to see if the keep recruiting to this type of style they play because it is unlike anyone else's in the conference.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 20, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
Seems like this is indicative of the game. We got down to 5 points amd Mayo makes a steal and seems to have a somewhat easy layup only to get picked just before the shot, then we play good defense again on the next play and McDermott chucks up a near half court shot as the shot clock expires to easily swish a 3. What can a team do?
Yup. This was a backbreaking sequence in the game. There was one other sequence around the same time were we missed a wide open three that would have cut it to 2 and they came down 10 seconds later and buried a three and just like that we were down 8 again. Seemed like that kind of thing just kept happening every time we got close.
Just tip your cap to a very good Creighton team.
Quote from: MU Fan in Connecticut on February 20, 2014, 07:41:25 AM
Seems like this is indicative of the game. We got down to 5 points amd Mayo makes a steal and seems to have a somewhat easy layup only to get picked just before the shot, then we play good defense again on the next play and McDermott chucks up a near half court shot as the shot clock expires to easily swish a 3. What can a team do?
Sticks out for me too. Ended the game.
Last night, my 12 year old daughter who knows nothing about basketball asked me, "Dad, why isn't the other team standing near number 12?".
I love De Wilson's heart and effort but that one question sums up the problem. He tries as hard as he can at all times but it's 4 on 5 for Marquette this season on the offensive end. Against any kind of quality opponent, you simply cannot win playing under that constraint.
Hopefully, next year will be better with Du Wilson back and another year of development for Dawson.
Quote from: MUSF on February 20, 2014, 12:01:27 AM
As I said, unless exploiting a mismatch. Most of his drives were against smaller guards after switches or against JWilson when he was playing with 4 fouls. Those plays are a great example of how he uses his superior bball IQ, crafty moves, and his knack for finding a way to get the ball in the basket. Like I said, he is a great college bball player, but I think many of those drives would get stuffed back in his face in the NBA. He just doesn't have the athletic ability to take NBA 2s and 3s off the dribble.
He's got a real quick release though. That will serve him well. He'll be in the league many years without being a superstar.
Quote from: humanlung on February 20, 2014, 08:25:25 AM
Last night, my 12 year old daughter who knows nothing about basketball asked me, "Dad, why isn't the other team standing near number 12?".
Put me on record as suggesting this did not happen.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 07:16:30 AM
Agree strongly with this point. There is a stretch in every game where we go several consecutive possessions settling for long jump shots, often with plenty of time on the shot clock. Happened again last night. And when you shoot like we do, that is a recipe for failure.
This is a very good point. At one point last night, a smaller defender got switched onto Deonte, and he settled for a jump shot instead of trying to back him down or make some sort of move.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 08:29:32 AM
Put me on record as suggesting this did not happen.
Seconded.
3 FG attempts by DG
2 FG attempts by DG first game we played them.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on February 20, 2014, 08:33:49 AM
3 FG attempts by DG
2 FG attempts by DG first game we played them.
Yep. Unfortunately, there was absolutely no place on the floor for him last night. Anytime he was out there on D, Creighton found him.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 07:11:26 AM
Finally, I don't see how we beat this team other than letting them shoot the 3 and hoping they have an off night, which will be a disaster more often than not. Other option is to forget Otule and Gardner and go back to massive substitutions with the other guys and try to wear them out. Neither are promising options.
First half...they doubled McDermott...and he passed the ball and they eventually found the open guy.
Second half...they let Jamil go one-on-one...and McDermott schooled him.
Unless they aren't hitting their shots, Marquette just isn't going to beat that team.
Last night was the worst MU defensive eFG% in Pomeroy's history (going back to 2003).
How about we don't just chalk it up to "eh - Creighton's pretty good"? MU has played lots of teams better than Creighton over the past ten years.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 08:36:11 AM
Yep. Unfortunately, there was absolutely no place on the floor for him last night. Anytime he was out there on D, Creighton found him.
Absolutely--and they sloughed off our PG more than I have ever seen a team. Absolutely no respect for the perimeter game.
Quote from: MU82 on February 19, 2014, 09:54:02 PM
I agree that Creighton is simply better, but I have a few ideas what Marquette could have done differently.
How about if we start with something as simple as making a few of the 16 freakin' free throws we missed?
Also, maybe not lose track of Wragge for six 3-pointers? It's actually a fairly simple assignment but whoever was on him seemed to lose focus for a brief second and then - bang - it was too late.
Also, how about not giving up about a half-dozen wide-open layups?
Also, needed more out of Jamil.
So there's a start. Not sure if all of that would have added up to victory but at least doing a few of those things differently might have kept us from getting wiped out on our home court.
3 of those 6, Wragge had a hand in his face and drilled it.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 08:29:32 AM
Put me on record as suggesting this did not happen.
So noted--except it absolutely did happen on numerous occasions. At least 3 times when he was down low on the baseline, and at least 3 times when he was dribbling at the FT line. His defender was sagged at least 3 feet off. C-mon man!
Quote from: humanlung on February 20, 2014, 08:25:25 AM
Last night, my 12 year old daughter who knows nothing about basketball asked me, "Dad, why isn't the other team standing near number 12?".
I love De Wilson's heart and effort but that one question sums up the problem. He tries as hard as he can at all times but it's 4 on 5 for Marquette this season on the offensive end. Against any kind of quality opponent, you simply cannot win playing under that constraint.
Hopefully, next year will be better with Du Wilson back and another year of development for Dawson.
Amazing that a 12 year old can see this, but the coach cannot, because he fails to remedy it, but blindly pursues his stubbornness. Several people on this board also do not notice it. Here come the insults.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on February 20, 2014, 06:44:12 AM
My fear is that Creighton will become the "duke" of the big east conference:/
I hate them
Why would you fear this? Every conference needs a Duke shooting type team. The more diversity of offenses and defenses there are in the conference the better all of the Big East teams will be prepared come NCAA tournament time.
Aye if the man doesnt require a Defender then why Defend him.
We 25 Games into the season teams already know. Its no secret.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 20, 2014, 08:41:25 AM
Last night was the worst MU defensive eFG% in Pomeroy's history (going back to 2003).
Yep. But people want to continue to place blame on the point guard...despite the fact that the offense has been steadily getting better as his minutes have increased.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 08:29:32 AM
Put me on record as suggesting this did not happen.
Sorry, gentlemen, it did happen. On my other side, my 16 year old son, who does know about basketball, was screaming about the officiating and that's what got her to look up from texting every so often, leading to the question.
As I said, I love his effort but his performance on the offensive end is just so tough to watch and easy to see.
IMO the game was lost when we were down 5 with about 7 minutes left and we got a stop then Todd rushed a 3 and missed. Next thing you know McDermont hit a 3 and we're down 8, basically a 6 point swing. I don't fault Todd for shooting because if he'd have hit it the game woulda been ours, but it seemed a little rushed.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 20, 2014, 08:41:25 AM
Last night was the worst MU defensive eFG% in Pomeroy's history (going back to 2003).
How about we don't just chalk it up to "eh - Creighton's pretty good"? MU has played lots of teams better than Creighton over the past ten years.
Henry, we may have faced better teams, but not teams with their particular skill set. In another thread, someone mentioned the old Pittsnogle WVU teams, who used to score on us efficiently, and this Creighton team is a better offensive version of those teams. Basically, Otule and especially Gardner can't guard anyone of those guys. Anderson is our best defender against that team, I think, but put him on the floor with Jake and Derrick and how do we score? I don't know what the alignment is that matches up with them.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 09:17:50 AM
Henry, we may have faced better teams, but not teams with their particular skill set. In another thread, someone mentioned the old Pittsnogle WVU teams, who used to score on us efficiently, and this Creighton team is a better offensive version of those teams. Basically, Otule and especially Gardner can't guard anyone of those guys. Anderson is our best defender against that team, I think, but put him on the floor with Jake and Derrick and how do we score? I don't know what the alignment is that matches up with them.
At one point, I was thinking a line up of Derrick, Todd, Jamil, Deonte and Juan might be the best. The biggest hole defensively is Deonte, but even he is better equipped to chase people on the perimeter.
No post, but Creighton was rending them ineffective on the offensive end anyway.
I'd say if we played Creighton 10 times we might beat them once. There just isn't much more we can do defensively. Double McDermott and the other shooters will kill you, even with contested 3s 4-5 feet behind the arc. We don't have the right personnel to chase them all over and even if we tried to lock down the perimeter shooters, DMC (I like that) would drive us all day and probably foul out Jamil and get 30. We just don't have the offense to keep up with them even on our best nights.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 09:17:50 AM
Henry, we may have faced better teams, but not teams with their particular skill set. In another thread, someone mentioned the old Pittsnogle WVU teams, who used to score on us efficiently, and this Creighton team is a better offensive version of those teams. Basically, Otule and especially Gardner can't guard anyone of those guys. Anderson is our best defender against that team, I think, but put him on the floor with Jake and Derrick and how do we score? I don't know what the alignment is that matches up with them.
I just think any time the result is the WORST EVER IN RECORDED HISTORY, perhaps something could have been done differently to prevent that result.
Of course, I have no idea what the answer is and won't pretend to know.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 20, 2014, 09:44:16 AM
Of course, I have no idea what the answer is and won't pretend to know.
Yup, that's what I was trying to say in too many words.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 07:11:26 AM
Agree about the FTs. Don't agree with much else.
Wragge was open because neither Otule nor Gardner can chase guys all over the court, so as long as one of them is on the court, a shooter was going to get open.
In the previous 5 games, Wragge's 3-point shooting went like this: 1-for-3, 3-for-5, 1-for-4, 0-for-4, 1-for-2. Creighton lost one of those games, had narrow wins in two others and even struggled a little before beating DePaul by 12.
Just as our opponents can totally eliminate Jake from the game if they want to, opponents who are committed to stopping Wragge can do so.
Bigger picture, despite all of the things Marquette did wrong -- including let Wragge go off as he hadn't in weeks -- it was only a 5-point game with 7 minutes to go. So I reject the notion that Creighton was unbeatable no matter what we could have done. I mean, Butler only lost to 'em by 5! Creighton is a nice team with outstanding shooters, but let's not make them out to be some unbeatable juggernaut.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 09:05:00 AM
Yep. But people want to continue to place blame on the point guard...despite the fact that the offense has been steadily getting better as his minutes have increased.
Well, as I predicted, it took less than half a day to come to PG defense.
Quote from: humanlung on February 20, 2014, 08:25:25 AM
Last night, my 12 year old daughter who knows nothing about basketball asked me, "Dad, why isn't the other team standing near number 12?".
I hope you said "Because they're more worried about his driving and passing than his shooting." I hope you also explained that #12 is the only guy who can run the offense without becoming a turnover machine, and is one of the few MU players who still plays defense....
Quote from: MU82 on February 20, 2014, 10:09:12 AM
In the previous 5 games, Wragge's 3-point shooting went like this: 1-for-3, 3-for-5, 1-for-4, 0-for-4, 1-for-2.
Problem is Gardner can't guard him. And we need Gardner to score, and they wisely pack it in and take away Gardner when they play us.
One other note. Creighton is well aware of our tendency to switch immediately when screened and used it successfully extensively to get mismatches. How many times did Derrick Wilson end up trying to stop McDermott inside?
You are right that they're not some unbeatable juggernaut. I've basically seen them play extensively just four times. The games against Villanova and the games against us. They looked like a juggernaut in all of those games.
Quote from: CTWarrior on February 20, 2014, 10:17:14 AM
One other note. Creighton is well aware of our tendency to switch immediately when screened and used it successfully extensively to get mismatches. How many times did Derrick Wilson end up trying to stop McDermott inside?
Or Jake. Buzz got completely schooled on the switches. That is not on the players. How can you blame D Wilson or J Thomas for doing what Buzz said? Then on top of it there was no help on many of those.
How were the Creighton fans in attendence? I know they are a rabid fan base and pack their house.
The ones by me were a bit on the douchy side - standing up and looking back into the Marquette crowd to interact on every big Creighton play (and there were a lot). By the second half, MU fans from a section over were yelling at them to sit down.
They were a bit above the "zealous fan" cheering level and more into the I want to taunt the opposing fans level...
Funny part - a few of them even said they didn't attend Creighton...
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 20, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
I hope you said "Because they're more worried about his driving and passing than his shooting." I hope you also explained that #12 is the only guy who can run the offense without becoming a turnover machine, and is one of the few MU players who still plays defense....
Or maybe it is they are more worried about our inside game and have no respect that the PG can make a 15 foot shot at better than a 15% clip. Amazing a 12 year old gets it but several others do not.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on February 20, 2014, 09:44:16 AM
I just think any time the result is the WORST EVER IN RECORDED HISTORY, perhaps something could have been done differently to prevent that result.
Of course, I have no idea what the answer is and won't pretend to know.
what is more amazing about that result is it was at home. One would certainly not expect to see that type of defensive performance on your own floor. Road wins are tough and they got the job done against a MU team that really needed a big win.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 10:29:06 AM
Or maybe it is they are more worried about our inside game and have no respect that the PG can make a 15 foot shot at better than a 15% clip. Amazing a 12 year old gets it but several others do not.
The 12 year old gets that they weren't covering him outside...but I hope her father did a better job of explaining why than you would have. Like you said, lots here don't get it. Count yourself among them.
Quote from: humanlung on February 20, 2014, 09:05:32 AM
Sorry, gentlemen, it did happen. On my other side, my 16 year old son, who does know about basketball, was screaming about the officiating and that's what got her to look up from texting every so often, leading to the question.
As I said, I love his effort but his performance on the offensive end is just so tough to watch and easy to see.
1) Tell your son that screaming at the officials from the stands does no one any good and makes him look a fool.
2) If it's so easy to see the problem, what's the solution?
This board really has become a sad and pathetic place thanks to the incessarnt bitching and whining of a few (in their mothers' basements).
Quote from: madtownwarrior on February 20, 2014, 10:23:26 AM
How were the Creighton fans in attendence? I know they are a rabid fan base and pack their house.
The ones by me were a bit on the douchy side - standing up and looking back into the Marquette crowd to interact on every big Creighton play (and there were a lot). By the second half, MU fans from a section over were yelling at them to sit down.
They were a bit above the "zealous fan" cheering level and more into the I want to taunt the opposing fans level...
Funny part - a few of them even said they didn't attend Creighton...
The fans behind the bench by the student section were awful. Nothing quite like taunting 18-22 year old kids when your a middle aged male or female. When MU cut it to 4 and McDermott hit that 3 over Jamil with like 2 on the shot clock one of them literally looked over at us flipped us off and told us to sit down...
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 10:51:21 AM
This board really has become a sad and pathetic place thanks to the incessarnt bitching and whining of a few (in their mothers' basements).
Yep. "The season is over." "Our players suck." "Our coach plays the wrong lineup."
Must be fun people to hang around...you know, when they get up from their mothers' basements.
My thoughts:
Overall, I don't think we played that badly last night but far from great and against a good team like Creighton, MU can't afford to slip up.
We won our last 2 games against Xavier and Seton Hall for 2 primary reasons.
1. We were lights out at the free throw line. vs X (24-27) vs SH (30-34)
2. We were able to hit some timely threes. vs X (9), vs SH (5)
Against Creighton we were 20-36 at the line and only hit 2 threes to their 12 (a 30 point difference).
So, if our free throw shooting and our three point shooting was more in line with how we played against Xavier and Seton Hall, this game goes to the wire. And to put our free throw shooting and the overall 3 point shooting in a different perspective, for much of the game, Creighton's 3 point shooting percentage was better than our free throw percentage. YUCK!!
Bottom line, you can't give away points against a team that is better than you and expect to win.
Quote from: esard2011 on February 20, 2014, 10:56:01 AM
The fans behind the bench by the student section were awful. Nothing quite like taunting 18-22 year old kids when your a middle aged male or female. When MU cut it to 4 and McDermott hit that 3 over Jamil with like 2 on the shot clock one of them literally looked over at us flipped us off and told us to sit down...
Didn't see a lot that type of stuff in section 218. My biggest issue with Blue Jays fans was in Anaheim. Did not cheer for Marquette at all in that tourney. They completely sat on their hands after their game against George Washington when we played San Diego State. We needed all the help we could get because the Aztec fans totally outnumbered us.
I will chalk it up to being in a new conference. But outside of hated rivals, you cheer for your conference against other conferences. Period.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 08:48:40 AM
So noted--except it absolutely did happen on numerous occasions. At least 3 times when he was down low on the baseline, and at least 3 times when he was dribbling at the FT line. His defender was sagged at least 3 feet off. C-mon man!
I think they were referring to Hum's story about his 12 year old daughter. Not the sagging of D Wilson
Quote from: MarquetteDano on February 20, 2014, 11:38:36 AM
Didn't see a lot that type of stuff in section 218. My biggest issue with Blue Jays fans was in Anaheim. Did not cheer for Marquette at all in that tourney. They completely sat on their hands after their game against George Washington when we played San Diego State. We needed all the help we could get because the Aztec fans totally outnumbered us.
I will chalk it up to being in a new conference. But outside of hated rivals, you cheer for your conference against other conferences. Period.
I really want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say it was only a few bad eggs but it left such a bitter taste in my mouth. They were worse then Louisville fans.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 20, 2014, 10:57:27 AM
Yep. "The season is over." "Our players suck." "Our coach plays the wrong lineup."
Must be fun people to hang around...you know, when they get up from their mothers' basements.
Warning: GooooGOOMarquette is the surrogate Buzz.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 10:11:14 AM
Well, as I predicted, it took less than half a day to come to PG defense.
I will when people misguidedly label him as the problem.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 12:00:25 PM
I will when people misguidedly label him as the problem.
As when people misguidedly ignore the problems.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 12:07:31 PM
As when people misguidedly ignore the problems.
Is Derrick's play a problem? Well in some ways yes. He is average at best...which I have been saying all year.
But is he *the* problem? Oh hell no. But he gets in inordinate amount of the blame.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 12:07:31 PM
As when people misguidedly ignore the problems.
Which in your odd little basketball world appears to mean not irrationally obsessing about it.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 12:07:31 PM
As when people misguidedly ignore the problems.
What's the solution? And why?
[quote author=MUtbone link=topic=42100.msg571893#msg571893
Basically have to win at Nova and then sweep MSG (20+ wins) to make it into the dance. Tall order for this team.
We can lose at Nova and lose the rest of our regular season games and we will still make the tourney if we sweep MSG.
Quote from: NavinRJohnson on February 20, 2014, 12:14:51 PM
Which in your odd little basketball world appears to mean not irrationally obsessing about it.
Nice diagnosis, Mr. armchair Psychologist. Hope you are not a practicing one, because you would be losing your butt!!!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 20, 2014, 10:13:31 AM
I hope you said "Because they're more worried about his driving and passing than his shooting." I hope you also explained that #12 is the only guy who can run the offense without becoming a turnover machine, and is one of the few MU players who still plays defense....
Yeah, pretty much. Sigh...
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 20, 2014, 10:46:33 AM
1) Tell your son that screaming at the officials from the stands does no one any good and makes him look a fool.
2) If it's so easy to see the problem, what's the solution?
1) We were at home. And he knows that, has since he was a little guy. Lighten up, Francis. Other than that, thanks for the parenting advice.
2) I don't know. Was just highlighting the point. I think De Wilson's a great effort guy (always have), he's just a little weak in some key areas, unfortunately.
Quote from: willie warrior on February 20, 2014, 01:29:36 PM
Nice diagnosis, Mr. armchair Psychologist. Hope you are not a practicing one, because you would be losing your butt!!!
(http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/mswha.gif)
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 01:50:03 PM
<crickets>
Yup. If Buzz can't find a solution, we sure as heck won't.
Quote from: The Sultan of Serenity on February 20, 2014, 08:39:12 AM
First half...they doubled McDermott...and he passed the ball and they eventually found the open guy.
Second half...they let Jamil go one-on-one...and McDermott schooled him.
Unless they aren't hitting their shots, Marquette just isn't going to beat that team.
Must be those "efficient feet" (Wadesworld comment, I think) that let's him do that. everybody talks about what a great 'athlete' that Jamil is - but McDermott is just quicker on his 1st step than Jamil as well as 2nd step.
Quote from: humanlung on February 20, 2014, 01:46:30 PM
1) We were at home. And he knows that, has since he was a little guy. Lighten up, Francis. Other than that, thanks for the parenting advice.
2) I don't know. Was just highlighting the point. I think De Wilson's a great effort guy (always have), he's just a little weak in some key areas, unfortunately.
1) Screaming at the TV is even worse ;)
2) Everyone knows that Derrick has his limitations but no one has come up with a viable alternative other than "throw Dawson out there and hope for the best."
Quote from: brandx on February 20, 2014, 02:28:32 PM
Must be those "efficient feet" (Wadesworld comment, I think) that let's him do that. everybody talks about what a great 'athlete' that Jamil is - but McDermott is just quicker on his 1st step than Jamil as well as 2nd step.
Yeah....Jamil aint quick