MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: ricardo_brown72 on February 17, 2014, 10:12:07 PM
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When will Jerel McNeal's jersey be retired?
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When will Jerel McNeal's jersey be retired?
When he logs an official minute in the NBA.
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So playing in the NBA is part of your college jersey being retired?
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So playing in the NBA is part of your college jersey being retired?
No, he's just teasing you
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Does anyone know what the requirements are?
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I don't think he deserves to get it retired. I appreciate everything he did but I mean he never lead us beyond the round of 32. He hasn't logged a minute in the NBA yet and so I just think he'll go down as an MU great but doesn't belong in the retired jerseys community
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You do know he's Marquette's all-time scoring and steals leader right?
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I don't think he deserves to get it retired. I appreciate everything he did but I mean he never lead us beyond the round of 32. He hasn't logged a minute in the NBA yet and so I just think he'll go down as an MU great but doesn't belong in the retired jerseys community
All-time leading scorer...he'll get it retired. Top 10 in several categories.
Doc Rivers didn't lead us beyond the round of 32 either, but his number is retired.
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I am constantly conflicted on who, if any of the recent MU greats (other than D Wade of course, who was deserving) should get their jerseys retired. At the end of the day I'm not sure anyone else from either Crean-Buzz years deserves it yet. It really should remain exclusive, to All American caliber players. The All time scoring leader is important, but not as important as it sounds. The really great players leave early. And many former MU greats did not play their freshman year. Between Diener, Novak, Jerel, Wes, Dominic, Lazar, Jimmy, Jae and DJO I'd say they are all about equal. Great college players but none jump out at me as a D Wade caliber guy who should hang in the rafters.
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I don't see it happening in the next 25 years.
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Jerel was also an All-American.
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Jerel was also an All-American.
I meant first team. But point taken
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I don't see it happening in the next 25 years.
If a few guys pass him up scoring, you might be right, but the longer he holds that title, the pressure to retire will surface. I don't know if he earned his degree, if he didn't that would help as well.
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That's why I asked what exactly are the requirements.
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That's why I asked what exactly are the requirements.
No official requirements as far as I know
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Graduating used to be a requirement, but it's not anymore.
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I am constantly conflicted on who, if any of the recent MU greats (other than D Wade of course, who was deserving) should get their jerseys retired.
Not Jerel. I don't think he was the best player on that MU team, even though he dominated the offense for a couple of years. He was not an all time great, IMO. He could have been one of the best all time defenders, but he seemed to concentrate less on that aspect of his game as his career progressed. Dom was the best on ball defender on that team in their senior season, and Wes was the better offensive player.
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It is pretty cool that the Big 3 all finished in the top 10 in scoring.
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Here would be the argument for
All time leading scorer
All time FGs made
All time leader in games played (still the case?)
All time leader in steals
7th all time in assists
Big East Defensive Player of the Year
All Big East Team four years - only player in Marquette history to do this I believe
2nd Team All American
District 5 Player of the Year
Four time NCAA tournament participant
Those that believe he doesn't deserve it would argue he got the points because he started from his freshman year on, shot too much, didn't get the NCAA wins
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It is pretty cool that the Big 3 all finished in the top 10 in scoring.
Speaks to the lack of back court talent on the team when they came in ans freshmen. That recruiting class saved Crean's career, and I'm not even one of the regular Crean bashers.
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Speaks to the lack of back court talent on the team when they came in ans freshmen. That recruiting class saved Crean's career, and I'm not even one of the regular Crean bashers.
What I wouldn't do for a backcourt like that now...oh to dream
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Here would be the argument for
All time leading scorer
All time FGs made
All time leader in games played
#2 in steals all-time
7th all time in assists
Big East Defensive Player of the Year
All Big East Team four years - only player in Marquette history to do this I believe
2nd Team All American
District 5 Player of the Year
Those that believe he doesn't deserve it would argue he got the points because he started from his freshman year on, shot too much, didn't get the NCAA wins
Four time NCAA tournament participant
I thought Lazar passed Jerel on most games played
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ChicosBailBonds he's actually #1 in steals as well. You're entitled to your opinion MUSF, but Jerel is statisically the best player from that team. He is also the most decorated.
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ChicosBailBonds he's actually #1 in steals as well. You're entitled to your opinion MUSF, but Jerel is statisically the best player from that team. He is also the most decorated.
My bad, I'll correct it.
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You're entitled to your opinion MUSF, but Jerel is statisically the best player from that team. He is also the most decorated.
Are you considering any advanced stats, efficiency etc? I haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious to see a comparison in something other than points, steals, FGs made. All of those can be very misleading.
He is certainly the most decorated player of that group, but in my subjective opinion, he was the second best player and third most important in his final season.
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I don't know what your analysis is based on, but where can I find these advanced stats?
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Are you considering any advanced stats, efficiency etc? I haven't looked it up, but I'd be curious to see a comparison in something other than points, steals, FGs made. All of those can be very misleading.
He is certainly the most decorated player of that group, but in my subjective opinion, he was the second best player and third most important in his final season.
For the record, he was named MVP of the team his senior year, voted on by the team and coaches. He also earned the honor his Sophomore year.
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He was also the clear favorite for Big East POY the first half of the season.
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I don't know what your analysis is based on, but where can I find these advanced stats?
Like I said, I haven't looked up any stats, so it's not my analysis. You could be correct that Jerel is clearly the better player statistically, but there are a lot more stats out there that might paint a more complete picture than the ones you are citing.
I am a complete novice when it comes to analyzing statistics, but plenty of posters on this board could tell you where to find these stats if you are truly interested. A quick google search of advanced basketball statistics will show you sites that explain what they are.
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http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/player/marquette/jerel-mcneal
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Ricardo, say hello to Jerel for all of us. Also, his game vs Stanford remains one of the my favorite MU performances... he played out of his mind. If that game was anywhere but SoCal, Mu likely beats Texas A&M as well to go to the Elite 8.
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That was definitely one for the history books. Do we know each other?
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There is no question he should have his jersey retired.
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Mu likely beats Texas A&M as well to go to the Elite 8.
Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??
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Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??
Thread hijacked!!!
Mods, please lock ASAP
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Jerel was a great player, a great Warrior. I don't know that he will ever have his number retired.
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What I wouldn't do for a backcourt like that now...oh to dream
+1000
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Speaks to the lack of back court talent on the team when they came in ans freshmen. That recruiting class saved Crean's career, and I'm not even one of the regular Crean bashers.
That was the year after the Marcus Jackson spin moving point power forward debacle wasn't?
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IMHO, Jerel contributed more to the program than Apollo 11 did....
Seriously, I think a guy who graduates as all-time leading scorer and 2nd team AA deserves it. Not getting past the round of 32 wasn't exactly his doing. He was injured the year we played Mich State (one of our ugliest tournament losses ever), and they were still adjusting to the loss of Dominic their senior year. If you don't think losing another player is an excuse, ask yourself if Wade would have led us to the Final Four if Diener had been out those games against Holy Cross and Mizzou.
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What I wouldn't do for a backcourt like that now...oh to dream
What I wouldn't do for two-thirds of a backcourt like that now.
Actually, even one-third of a backcourt like that.
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If they don't retire his jersey, they might as well stop retiring jerseys.
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So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.
#3 - Wade. Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson
Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:
#20 - Lucas. Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.
#31 - Rivers. Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis. Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.
I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.
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Uh, are you forgetting who the Marquette coach was that year??
Trying...not....to....engage....screw it
The same one who got us to a final four?
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He was also the clear favorite for Big East POY the first half of the season.
Jae Crowder WON Big East POY, and I still don't think he deserves his jersey retired.
It should be extremely difficult. There have been 4 First Team All-Americans in MU's history. Those 4 should definitely get it. Beyond that, I believe you should have to have done a number of things at the same time, such as Conference POY, led team to Final Four, etc. etc.
MU has a great history, but its not great enough to merit 10+ retired jerseys.
All-Time points leader is important. It puts him in the discussion. But I don't think its enough on its own.
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So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.
#3 - Wade. Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson
Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:
#20 - Lucas. Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.
#31 - Rivers. Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis. Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.
I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.
Agree. Top 5 are in a different class than the bottom 4.
But there are probably another 10 people, including Jerel, who are in that same class as the bottom 4. Are you saying they should all get in? Does MU's history really merit ~20 retired jerseys? We have history, but we aren't North Carolina.
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I can never forgive Jerel for milking his wrist injury so he wouldn't have to be part of that Crean led debacle against Michigan State in the tournament.
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There is no question he should have his jersey retired.
Still would feel odd to have Jerel and not the other 2. They were all so freaking important for how Marquette surged into the Big East and are probably 3 of the most important players to have ever donned an MU jersey.
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So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.
#3 - Wade. Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson
Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:
#20 - Lucas. Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.
#31 - Rivers. Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis. Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.
I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.
I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers. (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)
Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice. There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired. There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players. We've already retired 9 of them. Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers. So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.
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I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers. (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)
Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice. There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired. There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players. We've already retired 9 of them. Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers. So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.
Technically, MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.
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Agree. Top 5 are in a different class than the bottom 4.
But there are probably another 10 people, including Jerel, who are in that class. Are you saying they should all get in? Does MU's history really merit ~20 retired jerseys? We have history, but we aren't North Carolina.
Another 10 people? I don't know about that. His accolades exceed anyone not on that list of nine...and some of his career numbers are the best in Marquette history. I think the only one that would have an argument is Jim Chones.
Yeah I don't think MU should have 20 retired jerseys...but if he have opened the doors to other "very, very good" but not "excellent" players, McNeal could be one of them.
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The same one who got us to a final four?
Was Dwyane Wade coaching that year?
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I can never forgive Jerel for milking his wrist injury so he wouldn't have to be part of that Crean led debacle against Michigan State in the tournament.
Yes. He clearly should have been practicing left-handed shooting from the time he got on campus rather than waiting until he had no choice and cramming it all into the few days leading up to the game since it wasn't good enough to convince Crean to let him suit up. :D
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I think McNeal was certainly a better player/more successful while at MU than was Doc Rivers. (I also think Damon Key and Tony Miller and Travis Diener were better players while at MU than was Rivers.)
Of the basketball alumni who have not had their numbers retired, McNeal would probably be the top choice. There probably should be a difference between getting your jersey honored and having it retired. There are only 37 allowed numbers for basketball players. We've already retired 9 of them. Assuming you want to allow for 15 guys on the team (13 + 2 walk-ons), you can only retire 22 numbers. So we can only retire 13 more numbers, so you have to be very selective.
The only other conceivable one would be Jim Chones.
But yeah, I agree about your thoughts regarding retired jerseys. At some point you either recognize all that need to be recognized and realize that you are going to have to "unretire" certain jerseys, or you have to use more selective criteria.
So do I think Jerel "deserves" it based on who else is recognized? Yes. But would I be outraged if he doesn't get such recognition? No.
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Yes. He clearly should have been practicing left-handed shooting from the time he got on campus rather than waiting until he had no choice and cramming it all into the few days leading up to the game since it wasn't good enough to convince Crean to let him suit up. :D
(http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Joke-Goes-Over-Your-Head-Star-Trek-Gif.gif)
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Technically, MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.
Tell that to George Thompson.
I think I remember him getting upset when Lazar wore #24 early in his career (before he switched to 32).
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Tell that to George Thompson.
I think I remember him getting upset when Lazar wore #24 early in his career (before he switched to 32).
Right, because MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.
Lazar switched to placate George. But the reason it happened in the first place is that MU doesn't retire numbers.
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Jerel remains one of my all time favorites. Although I am not a huge fan of retiring numbers, I wish MU had some sort of "Ring of Honor" concept (NY Giants, for example, retire numbers for H.O.F.-caliber players but honor a handful of pro-bowlers and fan favorites each year). Personally, I'd love to see a game where the Big 3 were honored at the half. I'd shell out for tickets to that one.
As far as Jerel is concerned, I'd like to see him honored individually. He was perhaps the god-father of the Marquette "toughness" brand. He may not have any NBA minutes (which is a shame), but from what I understand his intensity in practice while at MU helped give rise to the toughness that NBA scouts seem to like about Marquette players. He had a chip on his shoulder about being the least heralded of the Big 3. I recall hearing stories about his intensity during defensive slide drills w/ Dominic and late night shooting sessions with Wesley.
I think the recent MU players who did get some time in the NBA owe some gratitude to Jerel. I'm still hoping he gets a bucket in the NBA. Regardless of whether he does or not, he deserves to be remembered as an all-time MU great.
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wow-tough call leaning towards retirement. could they start making some other kind of mention/notarization in the rafters short of retiring the jersey? because of the rule(rule 3 article 5b 2.0 as i understand it, there are only 32(includes 0 and 00) possible numbers that an be used. let's say you have a recruit who's favorite/lucky number/idols number, etc. is retired and cannot be used. will that be a game changer in said recruit deciding to come to your school? the more numbers one retires, it either stars to trivialize the accomplishments or one would think they would have more championship banners to go along with all those "stud" players. however, kentucky has retired 33 players/numbers that are illegal according to the rule
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wow-tough call leaning towards retirement. could they start making some other kind of mention/notarization in the rafters short of retiring the jersey? because of the rule(rule 3 article 5b 2.0 as i understand it, there are only 32(includes 0 and 00) possible numbers that an be used. let's say you have a recruit who's favorite/lucky number/idols number, etc. is retired and cannot be used. will that be a game changer in said recruit deciding to come to your school? the more numbers one retires, it either stars to trivialize the accomplishments or one would think they would have more championship banners to go along with all those "stud" players. however, kentucky has retired 33 players/numbers that are illegal according to the rule
Like said before, the numbers aren't retired... although I don't think anyone will be getting #3 anytime soon.
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So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.
#3 - Wade. Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson
Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:
#20 - Lucas. Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.
#31 - Rivers. Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis. Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.
I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.
Don Kojis was not a step behind the others. Look up the guy's career rebound average--probably close to 15 And he was a great scorer at 6'5" He did play a long time ago--but would definitely be in the top 5 of MU players.
McNeal deserves consideration, and Tony Miller should also have his Jersey retired. Doubtful anybody will break his career assist record.
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Never got retiring the number itself. At Steve Taylor Jr.'s high school, Simeon, it is an honor to wear Ben Wilson's number (I believe 25) after he was tragically killed in the mid eighties.
You can retire the jersey but I like keeping the numbers available.
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[/img]http://mrwgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Joke-Goes-Over-Your-Head-Star-Trek-Gif.gif[/img]
I got it. Just wanted to have some more fun wittit :)
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I wish MU had some sort of "Ring of Honor" concept (NY Giants, for example, retire numbers for H.O.F.-caliber players but honor a handful of pro-bowlers and fan favorites each year). Personally, I'd love to see a game where the Big 3 were honored at the half. I'd shell out for tickets to that one.
I think the Ring of Honor concept is already incorporated in the pre-game video of the chronology of all the greats of MU hoops. The Three Amigos are rightfully in that video.
A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.
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The only other conceivable one would be Jim Chones.
But yeah, I agree about your thoughts regarding retired jerseys. At some point you either recognize all that need to be recognized and realize that you are going to have to "unretire" certain jerseys, or you have to use more selective criteria.
So do I think Jerel "deserves" it based on who else is recognized? Yes. But would I be outraged if he doesn't get such recognition? No.
Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.
Add those and you have 16 retired Jerseys. Too many.
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... are probably 3 of the most important players to have ever donned an MU jersey.
What?
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What I wouldn't do for two-thirds of a backcourt like that now.
Actually, even one-third of a backcourt like that.
+1
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So if you look at the current list of retired jerseys for actual players, it seems like you have a few no-brainers.
#3 - Wade. Didn't complete his degree, but well deserved on the basketball court.
#14 - Meminger
#15 - Lee
#31 - Ellis
#24 - Thompson
Then you have some that are a little marginal IMO - I am certainly not saying that these players are undeserving, but that they are a step behind those above:
#20 - Lucas. Very good player, but didn't receive many national accolades.
#31 - Rivers. Yeah he was an all-American, but this seems more about retiring a number based on his post-MU career.
#43 - Tatum
#44 - Kojis. Thowback to the pre-McGuire days so it is hard to judge.
I would think that McNeal's career at MU rises to any of these final four players.
Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.
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What?
I'm sure he means in terms of proving we could compete at the highest of highest levels after 20+ years of blah. Many people said we had no chance in the Big East, including Rick Majerus. Those players proved many a naysayer wrong and catapulted us to the current streak we are on.
Important can be defined many ways and timing is key part of that. Just as I would argue Logtermann, Key, Mac, etc, where very important players for MU as well...we were very vulnerable as a program back then.
My two cents.
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He was perhaps the god-father of the Marquette "toughness" brand.
The Marquette Toughness Brand was launched when Goose Brell pulled out a switch blade to cut down the nets at The Garden.
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Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.
Alright, alright. Sometimes its just too hard to judge players from different eras. I'll consent on this even if that means I have to agree with Murff.
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Does Murff post here anymore?
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So playing in the NBA is part of your college jersey being retired?
Yeah, I was kidding. ;)
If that was true, Tom Copa and Dwight Buycks deserve their jerseys retired.
It was mentioned before but here are the retired "numbers":
Dwyane Wade (3)
Don Kojis (44)
Doc Rivers (31)
George Thompson (24)
Maurice "Bo" Ellis (31)
Butch Lee (15)
Earl Tatum (43)
Dean Meminger (14)
Maurice Lucas (20)
Marquette has also retired numbers 77, 38, and 11, in honor of coach Al McGuire, trainer Bob Weingart and the Apollo 11 crew, respectively.
Jerel is definitely deserving but Chones needs to be first.
Others for consideration: Hayward, Diener, Wes, and Tony Smith.
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What?
As in they were the 3 freshman who led Marquette into the Big East and established our new brand in the Big East. The previous two years were bad, most people didn't think Marquette would even be much in the new league. But they finished 4th in their first year and I think the success under them has led to how Marquette is currently viewed in the basketball world by media and recruits. Those were 4 very important years for Marquette basketball and we exceeded all expectations.
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Kojis was an absolute stud statistically. I'm sure few of us saw him play, but I know Murff and others raved about him. Rebounding machine.
Amen on Kojis. Did see him play when I was 10-12. Pretty long ago, and a different era, but definitely top 5 all time. Played for Hickey I believe. I looked him up on Wiki--they listed him at 6'3". Probably greatest MU rebounder of all time.
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The Marquette Toughness Brand was launched when Goose Brell pulled out a switch blade to cut down the nets at The Garden.
Heard that before about Brell. was it true?
Man, those McGuire years were fantastic. Thompson, Tatum, Ellis, Chones, Toone, Lucas, Meminger, Lee, McNeil, Lackey, Brunkhorst, Neary, Rosie, Sewell, the Elevator Man, etc., etc.. And most were real characters, also.
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Heard that before about Brell. was it true?
Man, those McGuire years were fantastic. Thompson, Tatum, Ellis, Chones, Toone, Lucas, Meminger, Lee, McNeil, Lackey, Brunkhorst, Neary, Rosie, Sewell, the Elevator Man, etc., etc.. And most were real characters, also.
The Gary Brell story is dead ass correct. Every other net cutting in the history of college basketball has involved the use of the Trainer's athletic scissors. Only Marquette had a player use a switch blade. Al's teams were legendary.
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Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.
Add those and you have 16 retired Jerseys. Too many.
None of these names should be lumped with Jim Chones, IMHO. They were good players, Chones was a clear notch above.
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None of these names should be lumped with Jim Chones, IMHO. They were good players, Chones was a clear notch above.
Actually, I agree. Chones should be retired before McNeal, by most measures.
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Chones, Sam Worthen, Tony Miller (1st in assists, 8th in points), Diener (6th in points, 3rd in assists, plus a Final Four), Dominic James (4th in points, 2nd in assists), Hayward (2nd in points, 5th in rebounds), ...all certainly in the same category as McNeal.
I will agree with you on Chones.
But the rest of these I don't think rise to the level of McNeal. But as I said, it wouldn't bother me if they recognize him...or they don't.
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A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.
That Barry Sanders really sucked. Guy never played in the Super Bowl
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I think the Ring of Honor concept is already incorporated in the pre-game video of the chronology of all the greats of MU hoops. The Three Amigos are rightfully in that video.
A final four appearance should be the required for any retired jersey candidate -- shows he either carried the team or made the team great.
Yikes. Considering how much of a crap shoot it is, I would say no way. Would you really not retire Shaq's number if he played for Marquette? Pete Maravich? David Robinson? Tim Duncan? So on and so forth
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I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.
Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:
To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP
UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.
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I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.
Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:
To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP
UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.
Actually you bring up a great point. Marquette hasn't promulgated standards for the honor. If they have an award there needs to be definitive metrics in place.
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Actually you bring up a great point. Marquette hasn't promulgated standards for the honor. If they have an award their need to be definitive metrics in place.
Retire #12 now!
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I will agree with you on Chones.
But the rest of these I don't think rise to the level of McNeal. But as I said, it wouldn't bother me if they recognize him...or they don't.
I think Tony Miller does. He has a career assists mark that may never be broken.
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I would be in favor of a system for honoring players and retiring numbers similar to UNC. MU may have to adjust criteria slightly but I like the model.
Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:
To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP
UNC hangs all of the jerseys in the rafters with the retired numbers on top.
I like the idea of clear standards, and those seem pretty reasonable. And since Jerel was a 2nd team AA, his jersey would be in the rafters if he'd played at UNC.
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First of all, this is an excellent thread. The kind of thread that keeps me coming on Scoop to read up and hear opinions. Fun to see different viewpoints and consider both sides of argument.
I have only been an MU fan for the past decade, but my time at MU coincided with the Big 3. To me, the longer Jerel's "all time scoring leader" record stands, the better are his odds of getting his number/jersey retired. Furthermore, the biggest argument against him, in my opinion, is the fact that he never took us far in the tourney. At the end of the day retiring jerseys are for "legendary" players, and legends usually find a way to make some things happen in March. I see both sides of the argument.
Also love the idea that someone had of honoring the Big 3 at half time of a game. That would for sure generate a lot of interest from MU fans and would be a lot of fun.
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Here's UNC's criteria for retired numbers and honored jerseys according to Wikipedia:
To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
First- or second-team All-America
ACC Player of the Year
NCAA Tournament MOP
So does anyone want to do the work and see how MU's players (retired and non-retired jerseys) fit with this criteria?
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So does anyone want to do the work and see how MU's players (retired and non-retired jerseys) fit with this criteria?
Butch Lee is the only one that meets the criteria to have his number retired:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men's_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards
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Butch Lee is the only one that meets the criteria to have his number retired:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._men's_college_basketball_national_player_of_the_year_awards
No....
Wade has been a member of a gold medal team and was All American first team.
Rivers was all American first team (AP)
Jae was Big East POY
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No....
Wade has been a member of a gold medal team and was All American first team.
Rivers was all American first team (AP)
Jae was Big East POY
Which places them in the 2nd group. Jersey retired. Not number retired. To get your number retired you must have won one of the six recognized player of the year awards....
MU has a fair amount of guys in that second group.
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To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade
First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder
Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder
NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee
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To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade
First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder
Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder
NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee
Well done
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unnatural carnal knowledgeing stash stole my thunder.
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To have his number retired, a player must win one of the six widely recognized player of the year awards.
#15 Butch Lee
To have his jersey honored, a player must have met one of the following criteria:
MVP of a National Championship-winning team
#15 Butch Lee (see above)
Member of a gold medal-winning Olympic team
#3 Dwyane Wade
First- or second-team All-America
#25 Ed Mullen
#10 Erwin Graf
#44 Don Kojis
#24 George Thompson
#14 Dean Meminger
#22 Jim Chones
#20 Maurice Lucas
#31 Bo Ellis
#43 Earl Tatum
#22 Lloyd Walton
#54 Jerome Whitehead
#31 Sam Worthen
#31 Doc Rivers
#3 Dwyane Wade
#22 Jerel McNeal
#32 Jae Crowder
[/b]
Conference Player of the Year
#34 Jim McIlvaine
#3 Dwyane Wade
#32 Jae Crowder
NCAA Tournament MOP
#15 Butch Lee
I could see those not crossed off staying retired or getting retired.
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I am glad that MU is selective. I will leave the qualifications to others.
I would hate to become the Boston Celtics of NCAA hoops. At some point they will need to reuse those numbers. Bob Ryan will go crazy.
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Right, because MU doesn't retire numbers. They retire jerseys.
Lazar switched to placate George. But the reason it happened in the first place is that MU doesn't retire numbers.
They (more like TC) had to placate a lot more people than George. It was a petty, little move by a petty little man who wanted to put an old guy in his place. Of course this was well after Al died. TC would never have had to the balls to pull it off with McGuire alive. MU never issued a number that hung from the rafters until TC tried getting cute with 24. Lazar didn't even wear that number at ND Prep. It was a prime example of the pettiness of Tom Crean. All his love of MU history BS rang hollow with me because of stuff like that. If you want to put Al on the jersey and Al on the court, deal with his old players.
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How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? :)
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How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? :)
He played in the wrong era...those are all blocking call now. ;)
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How has no-one brought up jerel as the all time leader in offensive fouls while running a two-on-one fast break? :)
If you want to retire numbers for dubious achievements may I suggest Chris Grimm for most moving screens and Dan Fitzgerald for most "and 1" fouls?
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Any system that doesn't retire Wade's #3 is a flawed system.
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Clearly, the criteria for retirement should be that the player must be voted in via MUScoop poll.
Anyone who disagrees .. banned.
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Can we retire jerseys on scoop? Or maybe even retire some usernames if they exemplified what muscoop is about.
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Can we retire jerseys on scoop? Or maybe even retire some usernames if they exemplified what muscoop is about.
I nominate SMU17 for consideration.
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I nominate SMU17 for consideration.
I myself was going to nominate UDpride
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I myself was going to nominate UDpride
Get unnatural carnal knowledgeed.
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Clearly, the criteria for retirement should be that the player must be voted in via MUScoop poll.
Anyone who disagrees .. banned.
So a minimum SOTG requirement? Things are looking up for Crowder.
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Can we retire jerseys on scoop? Or maybe even retire some usernames if they exemplified what muscoop is about.
Maybe we could retire not just usernames but users?
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Maybe we could retire not just usernames but users?
See: Dreadman24
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If retired Scoopers get a pension, I nominate GooooMarquette for retirement.
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So is Dwayne Wade the standard for players having their jerseys retired?
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If you want to retire numbers for dubious achievements may I suggest Chris Grimm for most moving screens and Dan Fitzgerald for most "and 1" fouls?
Ha, nice call. I had forgotten how much those frustrated me. Those and Merritt's "hands." Good times.
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When is HE going up there? Ranks high in many stat categories. Led his senior team in points, steals, minutes, rebounds, girls, cars, wings eaten, etc. Good NBA career. Good program guy.
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Jerel is not the only player who should be up there. The point is, there is no criteria. If there is no criteria, then the honor is based on nothing. If the honor is based on nothing, then it really has no value.
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Jerel is not the only player who should be up there. The point is, there is no criteria. If there is no criteria, then the honor is based on nothing. If the honor is based on nothing, then it really has no value.
Oh it has value. Value to the fans. But it's an emotional one.
I agree with the lack of criteria. Maybe Scoopers can make a push with the AD to make it happen.
Thanks to 'Stache for doing the HW!
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Any system that doesn't retire Wade's #3 is a flawed system.
Agreed. I like the concept of having some defined criteria, but I don't think MU should just adopt UNC's.
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Agreed. I like the concept of having some defined criteria, but I don't think MU should just adopt UNC's.
Retire a player's number only if...
1. He is a Consensus First Team All-American or National POY*
2. He completes his degree.
Honor# a player's number if...
1. He is a Consensus Second or Third Team All-American
or
2. Conference POY
or
3. Consensus First Team All-American or National POY who has not yet completed his degree^
Scoff if you may at the notion of earning a degree to have your number retired but Marquette University's primary mission is that of an academic institution, so it only makes sense that academics would play a role in giving a student athlete the highest level of individual recognition within his sport.
* - NPOY should be 1st team but you never know
# - include his number on a banner with other honored numbers
^ - allows some wiggle room to include Wade on a banner
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Has there ever been a National POY who also didn't make 1st Team AA?
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Retire a player's number only if...
1. He is a Consensus First Team All-American or National POY*
2. He completes his degree.
Honor# a player's number if...
1. He is a Consensus Second or Third Team All-American
or
2. Conference POY
or
3. Consensus First Team All-American or National POY who has not yet completed his degree^
Scoff if you may at the notion of earning a degree to have your number retired but Marquette University's primary mission is that of an academic institution, so it only makes sense that academics would play a role in giving a student athlete the highest level of individual recognition within his sport.
* - NPOY should be 1st team but you never know
# - include his number on a banner with other honored numbers
^ - allows some wiggle room to include Wade on a banner
I don't think we need a dual system. We are not North Carolina. Just retire numbers
Requirements (but do not guarantee the honor):
Either: Consensus 1st or 2nd team all American
OR
Conference POY
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If you want to retire numbers for dubious achievements may I suggest Chris Grimm for most moving screens and Dan Fitzgerald for most "and 1" fouls?
Ryan Amoroso* for most fouls committed on made free throws?
*I apologize if that wasn't him, but I thought I remember losing a game against Louisville because of that.
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Retire a player's number only if...
1. He is a Consensus First Team All-American or National POY*
2. He completes his degree.
Honor# a player's number if...
1. He is a Consensus Second or Third Team All-American
or
2. Conference POY
or
3. Consensus First Team All-American or National POY who has not yet completed his degree^
Scoff if you may at the notion of earning a degree to have your number retired but Marquette University's primary mission is that of an academic institution, so it only makes sense that academics would play a role in giving a student athlete the highest level of individual recognition within his sport.
* - NPOY should be 1st team but you never know
# - include his number on a banner with other honored numbers
^ - allows some wiggle room to include Wade on a banner
What university/college would say they aren't an academic institution?
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What university/college would say they aren't an academic institution?
Many fans think that star players who don't graduate should still get their numbers retired. I think that could send a bad message from an academic institution.
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Any system that doesn't retire Wade's #3 is a flawed system.
I heard Crean retired an IU #3 Jersey with Wade's name on it
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Joanie sleeps in a Wade jersey.
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Sorry to take the subject back to the OP's thread.... but does anyone know where Jerel is now? He's no longer playing in China but as far as I can tell hasn't appeared anywhere else. Is he injured?
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Joanie sleeps in a Wade jersey.
Lol
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He's back on the Bakersfield Jam. They have a game tomorrow at 6 on CBS Sports Network.