Hey scoopers, don't mean to open old wounds. I wanna ask you guys an honest question. But first lets put something to rest. The application to mu was not the reason newbill did not attend your fine university. The availability of a bigger top 100 recruit, ie. Jamil Wilson was the reason. The application could have turned in a week before fall classes started. Now for my question. I think we all agree that psu sucks as a basketball program. But I'd like know your honest opinion of newbill's game...
Excuse the errors, typing to fast on my phone. Who cares about proof reading this isn't school. Lol...
Newbill's a great player. Look at the other threads on scoop, nothing but praise for his game. Most (all?) here are happy that he's doing well and wish him nothing but the best.
Yo PC, the cat will be takin' his talents to the Association.
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 29, 2014, 11:00:48 PM
Hey scoopers, don't mean to open old wounds. I wanna ask you guys an honest question. But first lets put something to rest. The application to mu was not the reason newbill did not attend your fine university. The availability of a bigger top 100 recruit, ie. Jamil Wilson was the reason. The application could have turned in a week before fall classes started. Now for my question. I think we all agree that psu sucks as a basketball program. But I'd like know your honest opinion of newbill's game...
Hey PhillyCoach, don't mean to open new wounds. I wanna ask you an honest question. But first lets put something to rest. A pun isn't what you think it is.
But really, Newbill is a fine player, and a lot of people obviously would love to have him. That being said, I'm not sure we make the Elite 8 last year without Jamil Wilson. Of course, looking back, it would be great to have Newbill this year, but I wouldn't give up last year's run simply to get in the NCAA tournament this year. Who knows what would have happened... Could MU have given DJ the chance that PSU did? This year would probably have been his first year getting meaningful minutes, since he would have been behind Vander Blue on the depth chart.
Of course we would love to have him on the team this year, but we probably wouldn't trade past success for him.
He would have been welcome at MU. I don't know that he would have gotten the minutes at MU that he got at SMiss and PSU, as he would have been playing right next to Blue. I certainly bear him no ill will.
Well I'll say this, you guess may be right. But as a coach the depth chart goes out the window when a guys proves himself to be better than other guys in practice and in games. Not saying dj would have done that at mu. But knowin his skill set and his heart, I personally think he would thrive on any team in the country if given the opportunity. He's the epitome of a hard nose Philly guard.
Oh and for the record hards_alum. I do know the meaning of paronomasia, ie. Pun, it actually has several meanings. But in this part of my statement was rhetorical and the humor was in the fact that I appeared on the site bringing up newbill again.....
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 29, 2014, 11:00:48 PM
Hey scoopers, don't mean to open old wounds. I wanna ask you guys an honest question. But first lets put something to rest. The application to mu was not the reason newbill did not attend your fine university.
Why had he not submitted an application to the university?
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 30, 2014, 07:27:21 AM
Oh and for the record hards_alum. I do know the meaning of paronomasia, ie. Pun, it actually has several meanings. But in this part of my statement was rhetorical and the humor was in the fact that I appeared on the site bringing up newbill again.....
Humor would imply that something was funny. If it was funny, I'd have laughed.
As for submitting his application, JayBee's got the right question. Why did Newbill just not submit his app?
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 29, 2014, 11:00:48 PM
Hey scoopers, don't mean to open old wounds. I wanna ask you guys an honest question. But first lets put something to rest. The application to mu was not the reason newbill did not attend your fine university. The availability of a bigger top 100 recruit, ie. Jamil Wilson was the reason. The application could have turned in a week before fall classes started. Now for my question. I think we all agree that psu sucks as a basketball program. But I'd like know your honest opinion of newbill's game...
He's a stud, wish we had him. It's a guards game, we need better guards. Newbill will play at the next level.
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 30, 2014, 07:27:21 AM
But in this part of my statement was rhetorical and the humor was in the fact that I appeared on the site bringing up newbill again.....
That is funny.
By next level, do you mean the NBA?
If so, you guys are dead wrong.
Did I miss the pun??????? either intended or not......
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 30, 2014, 08:17:57 AM
By next level, do you mean the NBA?
If so, you guys are dead wrong.
DJ has a very nice game but translation to the NBA is a different story. I think he is as talented as many players who have made the league but he is handcuffed by PSU and SMU not making a post season. Many of players have gotten overlooked for less. I could see DJ going the Wesley Matthews/Vander Blue route if PSU doesn't make the tournament this year or next.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2014, 08:09:48 AM
He's a stud, wish we had him. It's a guards game, we need better guards. Newbill will play at the next level.
nm
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2014, 08:09:48 AM
He's a stud, wish we had him. It's a guards game, we need better guards. Newbill will play at the next level.
Uh. No.
dude woulda been graditated already. He had a RS year when he transferred from So Miss to PSU.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 30, 2014, 09:41:44 AM
dude woulda been graditated already. He had a RS year when he transferred from So Miss to PSU.
He a junior, bro. Not erbody gets through school in under foe like us.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on January 30, 2014, 09:41:44 AM
dude woulda been graditated already. He had a RS year when he transferred from So Miss to PSU.
If he came to MU as intended, he'd likely still be a RS Jr. at Penn State this season.
I think it's more likely that we don't have Jamil Wilson OR Todd Mayo on the roster right now if Newbill was here. That said, he's definitely a very good scorer, and has been since day one in college. No one can deny that. And he also has that Buzz "came from nowhere/chip on his shoulder/no fear/hard nosed player mentality" that would have likely thrived here. Ultimately I think he may have ended up in a better situation at PSU anyway, where he can be "the man" and be relied upon to take 15+ shots a night. Better place to showcase his skills.
We recognize his talent, enjoy watching him and wish him well whatever the future brings
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 30, 2014, 07:07:12 AM
Well I'll say this, you guess may be right. But as a coach the depth chart goes out the window when a guys proves himself to be better than other guys in practice and in games. Not saying dj would have done that at mu. But knowin his skill set and his heart, I personally think he would thrive on any team in the country if given the opportunity. He's the epitome of a hard nose Philly guard.
As I recall, Newbill was outplaying Blue in the summer Elite Camps by a decent margin. His stats certainly showed he was a more polished advanced prospect than Vander..perhaps though not with the athletic upside.
I'm pretty sure DJ will make the NBA and will get good run. He's got great size, and can shoot the ball well. Physical player too. Really too bad he didn't end up at MU. Have no doubt he would have thrived here alongside Vander.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2014, 07:36:17 AM
Why had he not submitted an application to the university?
This. This is what I'd like to know, strictly out of curiosity.
Nevertheless... PC, you're obviously a smart guy. So you probably know that had DJ ended up at MU, he would have indirectly contributed to a major fight breaking out the night that several MU players were busted for being in a bar underage; although the blame wasn't his, being in the wrong place at the wrong time, he would have been the target of retaliation which would have prematurely ended his basketball career. So by virtue of him not coming to MU, he still has a game, and his game must therefore be better than if he had turned in his MU application on time. Something called the butterfly or butterjunk effect....
Honestly... I have not seen DJ play D-I ball. I haven't seen highlights from the OSU game he's being lauded for this week. But I have seen what others have written about him, and it genuinely seems like he's doing very well for himself.
So an even greater curiosity for me is the reason behind passively-aggressively trolling on Scoop under the guise of not wanting to open wounds. The only wounds that exist are whatever ill towards MU you're still harboring and the minority opinions of chicken littles around here who insist that their hindsight is better than 20/20... any reasonable person can see that DJ has landed in a good spot and leave it at that. Why do you care what we think of DJ?
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 11:01:07 AM
As I recall, Newbill was outplaying Blue in the summer Elite Camps by a decent margin. His stats certainly showed he was a more polished advanced prospect than Vander..perhaps though not with the athletic upside.
What "summer Elite Camps" were these? What stats are you speaking about?
You guys are making stuff up.
There was something not right on the Newbill side. Some people saying it was the high school that hadn't sent something... others saying it was that he had drug his feet on the application... just doesn't make sense. Not saying Wilson's interest in MU didn't factor into the equation, but the giant leap (i.e., it was a cutthroat decision by MU) so many took is unfounded.
At any rate, Newbill has been very good this year playing alongside another high usage guard and super senior Tim Frazier. Last year he played out of position and forced a lot.. the end result was a bad year. Used in 31% of PSU's possessions while producing an ORtg of 92. He was the primary offensive option on a team whose offense was dead last in the Big Ten (12 teams) and was in the basement by a wide margin.
Nice year overall this year.. inconsistent though. He followed up the Illini game (in which he was ejected after igniting a bench clearing dust up by throwing a sucker punch at K-Nunn) with a 0 point, 0 assist, 0 rebound, 3 turnover, 5 foul performance at home in a 3 point loss to Minnesota.
But if you want to crown him...
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2014, 11:18:58 AM
What "summer Elite Camps" were these? What stats are you speaking about?
You guys are making stuff up.
According to a Rosiak article in February of 2010, Newbill's high school coach stated: "At the Elite camp he showed Vander Blue that he can compete with the best in the nation. He really played well against Vander Blue."
There you have it directly from an unbiased source!
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2014, 11:18:58 AM
Nice year overall this year.. inconsistent though. He followed up the Illini game (in which he was ejected after igniting a bench clearing dust up by throwing a sucker punch at K-Nunn) with a 0 point, 0 assist, 0 rebound, 3 turnover, 5 foul performance at home in a 3 point loss to Minnesota.
But if you want to crown him...
Jay Bee, don't you know we live in a "what have you done for me lately" society? It's not really a wonder that phillycoach wasn't creating new posts on a Marquette message board after the illinois game or the minnesota game.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on January 30, 2014, 06:44:57 AM
Yo PC, the cat will be takin' his talents to the Association.
Ah yes, Newbill--another to add to the tally of Buzz's recruiting lapses.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 30, 2014, 11:28:48 AM
According to a Rosiak article in February of 2010, Newbill's high school coach stated: "At the Elite camp he showed Vander Blue that he can compete with the best in the nation. He really played well against Vander Blue."
There you have it directly from an unbiased source!
Well, he definitely outplayed Vander at the NCAA Division 1 level when both were freshman in 2010-2011....and it wasn't even close!! No bias in these numbers, and I think they are supportive of the fact that it is totally conceivable that DJ would have showed well/played well against Vander in Elite Camp as his coach reported..
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=devonte-newbill&devonte-newbill=2010-2011&p1=vander-blue&vander-blue=2010-2011
Quote from: willie warrior on January 30, 2014, 11:37:51 AM
Ah yes, Newbill--another to add to the tally of Buzz's recruiting lapses.
Man willie guys like you play the what if game so much it's amazing you even have time for the here and now...
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 11:40:17 AM
Well, he definitely outplayed Vander at the NCAA Division 1 level when both were freshman in 2010-2011....and it wasn't even close!! No bias in these numbers, and I think they are supportive of the fact that it is totally conceivable that DJ would have showed well/played well against Vander in Elite Camp as his coach reported..
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=devonte-newbill&devonte-newbill=2010-2011&p1=vander-blue&vander-blue=2010-2011
Did Newbill have 4 perimeter-playing upperclassmen who were future NBA players on that team with him?
Good frackin' christ do I hope we win tonight. This board has gotten coo coo bad in the past few days. Not, bummed out we have been losing bad...like bad bad. And by bad bad, I mean like woah, yumma humma, terrible.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 30, 2014, 11:52:36 AM
Did Newbill have 4 perimeter-playing upperclassmen who were future NBA players on that team with him?
Nope...Newbill did not. Just looking at FG percentages from the 1, 2 and 3 line - pretty big difference between Van and Newbill as freshman. Not to mention Van had the benefit of playing with 4 future NBA players..and was defended as an afterthought.
If you want to say Van was good/decent as a freshman...that's fine...wouldn't surprise me given our latest debate on another player on current team....but...Vander was pretty bad as a freshman, any way you want to slice it. You'd think playing alongside 4 future NBA'ers, he'd have been able to perform better...
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 11:40:17 AM
Well, he definitely outplayed Vander at the NCAA Division 1 level when both were freshman in 2010-2011....and it wasn't even close!! No bias in these numbers, and I think they are supportive of the fact that it is totally conceivable that DJ would have showed well/played well against Vander in Elite Camp as his coach reported..
http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=devonte-newbill&devonte-newbill=2010-2011&p1=vander-blue&vander-blue=2010-2011
Stop changing the story. I asked what stats you were referring to ("His stats certainly showed he was a more polished advanced prospect than Vander") and what Elite Camp you were referring to that indicated he outplayed Van. You don't have a good answer for either.
BTW, Newbill's defense as a frosh was bad. He shot well but rarely shot (13.5 %Shots). A 13.5 %Shots guy that is playing poor defense doesn't fit my definition of a polished advanced prospect, but...
BTW, as freshmen.. Vander vs. Newbill's block %, steal % and fouls called / 40..
Van 1.2, 2.7, 3.8 fouls
Newbill 0.4, 1.5, 3.6 fouls
As sophomores (while Newbill was a year older) the performances weren't anywhere near similar.. Vander by miles (2.14 value add ex PER vs. 0.23). And so far, the Junior season comparisons... again with Newbill a year older in his Jr season --> value add ex PER, Van 3.44, Newbill 2.07.
Same age.. one left school after an elite eight (and two sweet sixteens) and is playing in the NBA... the other is helping Penn State try to improve on their 2-16 performance with him as the main man a year ago... so far, pretty good. 2 wins, but still in the Big Ten's basement.
No bias in the facts, but numbers and circumstances must be understood.
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 11:58:05 AM
Nope...Newbill did not. Just looking at FG percentages from the 1, 2 and 3 line - pretty big difference between Van and Newbill as freshman. Not to mention Van had the benefit of playing with 4 future NBA players..and was defended as an afterthought.
If you want to say Van was good/decent as a freshman...that's fine...wouldn't surprise me given our latest debate on another player on current team....but...Vander was pretty bad as a freshman, any way you want to slice it. You'd think playing alongside 4 future NBA'ers, he'd have been able to perform better...
Yes, with those 4 future NBA players taking nearly 70% of the team's FG attempts and accounting for over 60% of the rebounds, assists and steals, I'm surprised the role-playing freshman didn't put up bigger numbers ::)
Love these sort of threads. People get buried, but instead of just admitting they were wrong, they dig in their heels.
Quote from: Aughnanure on January 30, 2014, 09:34:54 AM
Uh. No.
I think he will play pro ball, whether it is NBDL, NBA, or Europe, he will get paid to play ball at the next level. Feel free to disagree, which you have.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2014, 12:11:28 PM
I think he will play pro ball, whether it is NBDL, NBA, or Europe, he will get paid to play ball at the next level. Feel free to disagree, which you have.
Well, you did call him stud, then fawn how he will play at the next level, which most folks tend to mean the Association. But, not a big shocker he could play in Europe, so did Niv Berkowitz.
Quote from: reinko on January 30, 2014, 12:17:29 PM
Well, you did call him stud, then fawn how he will play at the next level, which most folks tend to mean the Association. But, not a big shocker he could play in Europe, so did Niv Berkowitz.
I think one poster specifically said association. I said next level. I'm not going to predict which level, but I do feel he will get paid to play basketball at the next level. Nice player. He doesn't have the talent around him like other programs in the Big Ten do, the opposition keys on him every game and he still puts up some very nice numbers in arguably one of the top 2 toughest conferences in the country.
Quote from: Jay Bee on January 30, 2014, 12:04:11 PM
Stop changing the story. I asked what stats you were referring to ("His stats certainly showed he was a more polished advanced prospect than Vander") and what Elite Camp you were referring to that indicated he outplayed Van. You don't have a good answer for either.
BTW, Newbill's defense as a frosh was bad. He shot well but rarely shot (13.5 %Shots). A 13.5 %Shots guy that is playing poor defense doesn't fit my definition of a polished advanced prospect, but...
BTW, as freshmen.. Vander vs. Newbill's block %, steal % and fouls called / 40..
Van 1.2, 2.7, 3.8 fouls
Newbill 0.4, 1.5, 3.6 fouls
As sophomores (while Newbill was a year older) the performances weren't anywhere near similar.. Vander by miles (2.14 value add ex PER vs. 0.23). And so far, the Junior season comparisons... again with Newbill a year older in his Jr season --> value add ex PER, Van 3.44, Newbill 2.07.
Same age.. one left school after an elite eight (and two sweet sixteens) and is playing in the NBA... the other is helping Penn State try to improve on their 2-16 performance with him as the main man a year ago... so far, pretty good. 2 wins, but still in the Big Ten's basement.
No bias in the facts, but numbers and circumstances must be understood.
Freshman year stats...he was much better than Blue....twist them in anyway you want to try to fit your narrative - going to PER...Vander played with 4 NBA players as Merritt wrote...think he was any kind of focus?! He was awful as a freshman.
As for the other defensive stats you throw out - I'm sure that .8% block differential and 1.2% steal differential far and way made Vander much more valuable to his team, even while shooting a significantly worse percentage from 1, 2 and 3 pt. Not to mention Newbill rebounded at a MUCH better rate.
As for the Elite Camp - it was MU's Summer Elite Camp in 2010 I was referencing.
How about this - want to wager as to who will have a better NBA career based - Newbill or Vander? You already have a head start in that Vander has gotten a 10-day contract..
Ners, you're getting owned again. Please stop for the sake of the children.
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 12:47:33 PM
Freshman year stats...he was much better than Blue....twist them in anyway you want to try to fit your narrative - going to PER...Vander played with 4 NBA players as Merritt wrote...think he was any kind of focus?! He was awful as a freshman.
As for the other defensive stats you throw out - I'm sure that .8% block differential and 1.2% steal differential far and way made Vander much more valuable to his team, even while shooting a significantly worse percentage from 1, 2 and 3 pt. Not to mention Newbill rebounded at a MUCH better rate.
As for the Elite Camp - it was MU's Summer Elite Camp in 2010 I was referencing.
How about this - want to wager as to who will have a better NBA career based - Newbill or Vander? You already have a head start in that Vander has gotten a 10-day contract..
I'll take that bet. What would you like to wager and when shall we judge it?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 30, 2014, 12:59:35 PM
I'll take that bet. What would you like to wager and when shall we judge it?
Please bet a lifetime ban of posting.
Quote from: reinko on January 30, 2014, 01:01:27 PM
Please bet a lifetime ban of posting.
No way he would take that bet.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2014, 12:36:57 PM
I think one poster specifically said association. I said next level. I'm not going to predict which level, but I do feel he will get paid to play basketball at the next level. Nice player. He doesn't have the talent around him like other programs in the Big Ten do, the opposition keys on him every game and he still puts up some very nice numbers in arguably one of the top 2 toughest conferences in the country.
It is a pointless discussion if you aren't stating the NBA. There have been too many players in D1 that have played in Europe with worse careers. The going in assumption is that he will play professionally unless he gets hurt or decides to turn something down.
Right now, draft express does not include him on the list but it is still early. This game against OSU will help get him some attention but he needs to have a very good senior year to make it.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2015/
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 12:47:33 PM
How about this - want to wager as to who will have a better NBA career based - Newbill or Vander? You already have a head start in that Vander has gotten a 10-day contract..
Sure, I can pay you in 20 years when Newbill retires after an illustrious NBA career.
It's not relevant to your nonsense & I have given no though on the subject, but sure. Just bc you're yapping let's make that bet (for 50?).
Getting back to the subject at hand, I would like to hear from Philly Coach why Newbill never applied to MU.
Quote from: Ners on January 30, 2014, 12:47:33 PM
Freshman year stats...he was much better than Blue....twist them in anyway you want to try to fit your narrative - going to PER...Vander played with 4 NBA players as Merritt wrote...think he was any kind of focus?! He was awful as a freshman.
As for the other defensive stats you throw out - I'm sure that .8% block differential and 1.2% steal differential far and way made Vander much more valuable to his team, even while shooting a significantly worse percentage from 1, 2 and 3 pt. Not to mention Newbill rebounded at a MUCH better rate.
As for the Elite Camp - it was MU's Summer Elite Camp in 2010 I was referencing.
How about this - want to wager as to who will have a better NBA career based - Newbill or Vander? You already have a head start in that Vander has gotten a 10-day contract..
Ners...you aren't going to win this one. Besides shooting, Blue beat Newbill in every category. That's based on percentages, not per game, because Newbill got a lot more minutes. Why did he get more minutes? Because he played for Southern fricking Mississippi. A decent mid-major in CUSA. The defenses he was facing didn't exactly match what Vander was facing in the old Big East
Dj was prepared to submit his app. When arrived on campus after graduation. A week before his departure for mu and a few days after a college send party ie trunk party. I was notified by then asst coach scott monarch that buzz want to go in a different direction and that dj should ask mu for a release of his schollie and nli so he may find another school. This was also in the Philadelphia daily news paper.
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 30, 2014, 11:30:04 PM
Dj was prepared to submit his app. When arrived on campus after graduation.
The question was why didn't he submit his application.
When you say he was prepared to "submit his app." does that mean it was completed but for some reason he was holding onto it or does it mean that he was willing to submit his application eventually (which is the equivalent of saying nothing)?
Does "When arrived on campus after graduation" mean he was willing to submit his application once he arrived on campus at Marquette? Again, the question is... why didn't he submit his application?
Something isn't making sense.
If you read the post you can see I mean when he arrived at mu for the summer. A week or so after graduating from high school.....
Quote from: PhillyCoach on January 30, 2014, 11:45:28 PM
If you read the post you can see I mean when he arrived at mu for the summer. A week or so after graduating from high school.....
Why didn't he submit it before he arrived at MU?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on January 30, 2014, 12:11:28 PM
I think he will play pro ball, whether it is NBDL, NBA, or Europe, he will get paid to play ball at the next level. Feel free to disagree, which you have.
C'mon, man. Chris Grimm and Biggie Clausen got paid to play at that definition of the next level. Doesn't almost everybody?
At least Buzz was up front and honest and didn't wait for a couple of days at MU to then change his mind.
*cough* Jameel *cough*
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on January 30, 2014, 01:09:10 PM
No way he would take that bet.
Apparently, he won't even show up to respond. I'm shocked.