In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.
Yep. If we had more guys crashing the glass like Davante, Jamil and Derrick, we'd be celebrating a big win.
Yep...if only Mayo had gotten a few rebounds...what might have been...the hell with his 18 points on 7-10 shooting. If only Dawson could rebound like Derrick in 8 minutes of action. Deonte in 5 minutes of action.
Seems your guards should be the ones to corral a lot of the long rebounds, 50/50 balls, and Derrick and Jake in their combined 65 minutes snared all of 6 rebounds...or 1 rebound every 10 minutes of action. Oh what might have been if Buzz would have given Dawson and Burton 10 minutes.
Perhaps our guards didn't block out well?
Quote from: Ners on January 25, 2014, 10:57:59 PM
Yep...if only Mayo had gotten a few rebounds...what might have been...the hell with his 18 points on 7-10 shooting. If only Dawson could rebound like Derrick in 8 minutes of action. Deonte in 5 minutes of action.
Seems your guards should be the ones to corral a lot of the long rebounds, 50/50 balls, and Derrick and Jake in their combined 65 minutes snared all of 6 rebounds...or 1 rebound every 10 minutes of action. Oh what might have been if Buzz would have given Dawson and Burton 10 minutes.
Perhaps our guards didn't block out well?
Well Dawson had enough energy in 8 minutes of action to launch 4 shots - he just couldn't be bothered to bend over a little bit to pick up a ball that came right to him. Guess you have to be in for at least 10 minutes before you can give any effort to anything other than a shot.
If you read my post, I included rather than exonerated Jake for his miserable efforts on the boards. Of course for you, points scored are the only stat that matters. I'm sure you were quite the chucker on your dorm intermural squad.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 25, 2014, 10:35:42 PM
In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.
Lenny, I agree that the rebounding was a serious problem today. Several times we needed a stop, got one and then let them get the offensive rebound. In some cases off 50/50 balls that no one chased or was unwilling to dive on.
I do wonder if some of it stemmed from a few calls very early in the game where guys from MU in proper position were called for fouls on rebounds when they tried to grab a long rebound. Thought they were really bad calls and wondered if it got in their head.
The fact that you're defending Jake is funny. He can't do anything but shoot, and he's VERY good at that.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 25, 2014, 10:35:42 PM
In spite of dominating in the paint today we were again out rebounded. We gave up 13 offensive rebounds and on three occasions I remember (it was probably more) Nova hit a 3 after getting their own miss. In 55 combined minutes, Otule, Mayo, Dawson and Burton had zero rebounds. Add Jake to the mix and it's 1 board in 81. Add Steve Jr and it's 4 rebounds in 104. That is atrocious. When teams shoot a lot of 3s you see many long rebounds, which are essentially loose 50/50 balls. Derrick had five rebounds, our other guards a combined 1 (thanks Jake) in 65. Everybody except Davante, Jamil and Derrick should be ashamed. One or two more guys step up and we win. The missed lay ups make you pull your hair out, but they're not what ailed us most today and in other difficult losses. Right now, these guys (with a few exceptions) just aren't tough enough.
Interesting numbers on Otule. But, the most compelling comment is the lack of toughness. I'd call it "heart". This team has no heart or soul. It's just a group of unrelated parts. We'll have to simply hope that this isn't a precursor of things to come in future years.
Quote from: classof70 on January 26, 2014, 07:53:44 AM
Interesting numbers on Otule. But, the most compelling comment is the lack of toughness. I'd call it "heart". This team has no heart or soul. It's just a group of unrelated parts. We'll have to simply hope that this isn't a precursor of things to come in future years.
It seems to me that during the first 5 years of Buzz's tenure, that a certain alchemy occurred to make the team more than the sum of its parts, or achieved the peak of their potential. This team is less than the sum of its parts. I suspect there are several threads where posters blame different things, so I won't.
tried that argument before:...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41369.0 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41369.0)
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2014, 08:10:36 AM
It seems to me that during the first 5 years of Buzz's tenure, that a certain alchemy occurred to make the team more than the sum of its parts, or achieved the peak of their potential. This team is less than the sum of its parts. I suspect there are several threads where posters blame different things, so I won't.
Quote from: forgetful on January 25, 2014, 11:32:52 PM
Lenny, I agree that the rebounding was a serious problem today. Several times we needed a stop, got one and then let them get the offensive rebound. In some cases off 50/50 balls that no one chased or was unwilling to dive on.
Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost. Surprised very few people talking about it.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 26, 2014, 11:48:27 AM
Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost. Surprised very few people talking about it.
Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 26, 2014, 11:48:27 AM
Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost. Surprised very few people talking about it.
Chick and I discussed it throughout the game. Most of the game we were about -10 on the boards. Closed it up a bit at the end of regulation as Nova missed free throws. Just killed us as we rarely could get a stop/rebound combo.
I would argue that atrocious pick and roll defense was as big a culprit as rebounding, but the two probably go hand in hand.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 25, 2014, 11:29:20 PM
Well Dawson had enough energy in 8 minutes of action to launch 4 shots - he just couldn't be bothered to bend over a little bit to pick up a ball that came right to him. Guess you have to be in for at least 10 minutes before you can give any effort to anything other than a shot.
I actually yelled out loud for Dawson to hit the floor and get that board. I'm guessing Buzz was none-too-pleased, nor should he have been.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 26, 2014, 11:59:10 AM
Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.
I agree the boards and hustle were huge issues, and commented on that a few seconds ago.
But that doesn't mean our PG play wasn't horsecrap (or darn close to it).
It's not an either-or thing. Both can be true.
It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.
What the original post proves Is how asinine it is to actually allow Chris Otule to play division 1 basketball
One
More
Made
Free
Throw
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on January 26, 2014, 12:19:45 PM
One
More
Made
Free
Throw
It really is amazing how missed or made free throws can change the outcome of the game. Just think if Nova didn't miss all those free throws at the end of regulation, there is no overtime, period.
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2014, 12:08:12 PM
It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.
You are so right. Great examples of why they ride the pine and will continue to do so until their overall game improves. While all three are talented, they still have plenty of hard work to do, the dirty work that Buzz and the coaches really want to see. MU always battles for 50/50 balls. Sure seems this season not many guys want to hit the deck.
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2014, 12:08:12 PM
It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.
But at the same time 11-9 doesn't explain it. "If it ain't broke don't fix it" guess what? It's broke.
It's mind boggling that people point out so called reason freshman are not getting playing time when ironically guys who are getting playing time are upperclassmen and worse at the game of basketball.
Seriously, what at least JJJ and Deonte have assets.
I have been equally critical of the upperclassmen and their lack of leadership. Buzz hasn't given up on this season yet.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 26, 2014, 11:48:27 AM
Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost. Surprised very few people talking about it.
If we talked about that, we wouldn't be able to crap all over Jake and Derrick.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 26, 2014, 02:19:41 PM
If we talked about that, we wouldn't be able to crap all over Jake and Derrick.
But we can crap all over Chris who believe it or not is actually worse than those two.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on January 26, 2014, 11:48:27 AM
Bad rebounding was likely the biggest reason MU lost. Surprised very few people talking about it.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 26, 2014, 11:59:10 AM
Yeah, but if we talked about the real reason we lost our "fans" with the pitchforks wouldn't be able to write post after post about our "horse crap" point guard.
I agree offensive rebounding was a huge issue in the game - but, that's on the guys who got the most minutes - Gardner, Jamil, Derrick and Jake. 50/50 balls are usually chased down by guards - not bigs. So, in my view, rebounding is a team effort - and its on the whole team to rebound.
Another reason why the rebounding was so poor - because our guards were getting beat off the dribble continuously - and it caused our bigs to help off to shut off penetration - which takes them out of rebounding position, as they no longer are able to get a good block out on their man.
We gave up 95 points yesterday. Our defense wasn't good. Nor was the rebounding. Nova's PG ran circles around our guards. If you aren't pleased with the results, then be mad at the guys that got max minutes yesterday...
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I agree offensive rebounding was a huge issue in the game - but, that's on the guys who got the most minutes - Gardner, Jamil, Derrick and Jake. 50/50 balls are usually chased down by guards - not bigs. So, in my view, rebounding is a team effort - and its on the whole team to rebound.
Those guys you want to blame got 28 rebounds in 145 minutes. The ones you don't blame (Otule, Taylor, Mayo, Dawson and Burton) got 3 rebounds in 78 minutes. In my view, you were not a math major.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 02:25:00 PM
I agree offensive rebounding was a huge issue in the game - but, that's on the guys who got the most minutes - Gardner, Jamil, Derrick and Jake. 50/50 balls are usually chased down by guards - not bigs. So, in my view, rebounding is a team effort - and its on the whole team to rebound.
Davante, Jamil and Derrick played 51.5% (116/225) of the total minutes today, but got 84.4% (27/32) of our rebounds. They clearly were not part of our rebounding problem.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 26, 2014, 02:42:25 PM
Davante, Jamil and Derrick played 51.5% (116/225) of the total minutes today, but got 84.4% (27/32) of our rebounds. They clearly were not part of our rebounding problem.
Thank you.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 26, 2014, 02:40:52 PM
Those guys you want to blame got 28 rebounds in 145 minutes. The ones you don't blame (Otule, Taylor, Mayo, Dawson and Burton) got 3 rebounds in 78 minutes. In my view, you were not a math major.
As I wrote yesterday, Derrick and Jake combined for 6 rebounds in 65 minutes of action. Or 1, every 10 minutes. I'll give that Derrick is a good rebounding guard - many times on a second quick jump off of his own miss at the basket. I don't want Otule getting more than 10 minutes a game - never been a big fan of his as a player...and agree its ridiculous that at 6'11, he got 0 rebounds yesterday.
Sure, I'd like to see a few more rebounds out of Todd - but, at least Todd put up 18, on 70% shooting from the field, and single handily got us to OT...so he made his fair share of contribution to the team.
I know you are salty about my whole campaign to get Derrick benched and promotion of Dawson - but, at the end of the day, Derrick played the most minutes of anyone yesterday, and we had all kinds of rebounding and defensive problems - his 2 strong suits. Gardner was great on the boards, Jamil solid. Jake a no show.
It's quite evident you and several others in the Derrick fan club clearly didn't major in Basketball, much less take a simple class in Basketball 101. If you did, you and the others in the Derrick fan club, wouldn't continue to try to shift the blame elsewhere as to how a team with as much talent on it as this MU club is sitting 11-9..with no wins over anyone in the Top 50. Keep in mind the COACHES of the Big East picked Marquette to WIN the league title. Clearly, they are falling way short of expectations, and it isn't due to "lack of leadership," Gardner not improving, Jamil being too passive, McKay transferring, Duane Wilson being hurt - it's due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 26, 2014, 02:40:52 PM
Those guys you want to blame got 28 rebounds in 145 minutes. The ones you don't blame (Otule, Taylor, Mayo, Dawson and Burton) got 3 rebounds in 78 minutes. In my view, you were not a math major.
Again, this just raises my same question
Why does Chris Otule play in a division 1 basketball game?
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 03:16:37 PM
As I wrote yesterday, Derrick and Jake combined for 6 rebounds in 65 minutes of action. Or 1, every 10 minutes. I'll give that Derrick is a good rebounding guard - many times on a second quick jump off of his own miss at the basket. I don't want Otule getting more than 10 minutes a game - never been a big fan of his as a player...and agree its ridiculous that at 6'11, he got 0 rebounds yesterday.
Sure, I'd like to see a few more rebounds out of Todd - but, at least Todd put up 18, on 70% shooting from the field, and single handily got us to OT...so he made his fair share of contribution to the team.
I know you are salty about my whole campaign to get Derrick benched and promotion of Dawson - but, at the end of the day, Derrick played the most minutes of anyone yesterday, and we had all kinds of rebounding and defensive problems - his 2 strong suits. Gardner was great on the boards, Jamil solid. Jake a no show.
It's quite evident you and several others in the Derrick fan club clearly didn't major in Basketball, much less take a simple class in Basketball 101. If you did, you and the others in the Derrick fan club, wouldn't continue to try to shift the blame elsewhere as to how a team with as much talent on it as this MU club is sitting 11-9..with no wins over anyone in the Top 50. Keep in mind the COACHES of the Big East picked Marquette to WIN the league title. Clearly, they are falling way short of expectations, and it isn't due to "lack of leadership," Gardner not improving, Jamil being too passive, McKay transferring, Duane Wilson being hurt - it's due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
WTF does this even mean?
Yeah, I was unaware that Marquette had a basketball major...or a class in Basketball 101.
Yet I find it ironic that he claims to know more than the head basketball coach does.
EDIT: And the issue isn't that Buzz shouldn't be questioned, but the constant "Buzz is an idiot and the rest of you are slurpers" tone of the discussion.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 03:16:37 PM
I know you are salty about my whole campaign to get Derrick benched and promotion of Dawson -
See,to many people, your "campaign" is misdirected. If you really want to campaign, you should be spending more time sending Buzz and the assistant coaches postcards with your ideas, picketing around their houses and the Al, making big signs for them to read while your in your court-side seats yesterday.
Repeating them here ad-nauseum isn't really good plan for a successful campaign.
Marquette played their heart out. I think it was a simple case of Villanova having more talent and better coaching.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 26, 2014, 03:18:29 PM
Again, this just raises my same question
Why does Chris Otule play in a division 1 basketball game?
Of Otule, Derrick and Jake, Otule would be the one who would be part of a rotation for a good, high-major basketball program.
Otule is tall, moves well, blocks shots, changes the trajectory of shots and will even put on a nice little post move a couple times a game. He has serious shortcomings, which of course means he fits in well with us, but he also has definite strengths.
He is averaging 18 minutes, and that's too many, but 10 mpg or so would be just right. You don't think Villanova would find 10 minutes for him? Ohio State? Dozens of others?
Meanwhile, Derrick would be hard-pressed to find 10 minutes in most high-major programs. And Jake would be hard-pressed to find 1 minute for any good team, as was the case at Marquette for the 2013 conference season.
Quote from: MU82 on January 26, 2014, 05:21:00 PM
Of Otule, Derrick and Jake, Otule would be the one who would be part of a rotation for a good, high-major basketball program.
Otule is tall, moves well, blocks shots, changes the trajectory of shots and will even put on a nice little post move a couple times a game. He has serious shortcomings, which of course means he fits in well with us, but he also has definite strengths.
He is averaging 18 minutes, and that's too many, but 10 mpg or so would be just right. You don't think Villanova would find 10 minutes for him? Ohio State? Dozens of others?
Meanwhile, Derrick would be hard-pressed to find 10 minutes in most high-major programs. And Jake would be hard-pressed to find 1 minute for any good team, as was the case at Marquette for the 2013 conference season.
I doubt Derrick or Jake could start at Grambling or Samford...
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 03:16:37 PM
I know you are salty about my whole campaign to get Derrick benched and promotion of Dawson - but, at the end of the day, Derrick played the most minutes of anyone yesterday, and we had all kinds of rebounding and defensive problems - his 2 strong suits. Gardner was great on the boards, Jamil solid. Jake a no show.
It's quite evident you and several others in the Derrick fan club clearly didn't major in Basketball, much less take a simple class in Basketball 101. If you did, you and the others in the Derrick fan club, wouldn't continue to try to shift the blame elsewhere as to how a team with as much talent on it as this MU club is sitting 11-9..with no wins over anyone in the Top 50. Keep in mind the COACHES of the Big East picked Marquette to WIN the league title. Clearly, they are falling way short of expectations, and it isn't due to "lack of leadership," Gardner not improving, Jamil being too passive, McKay transferring, Duane Wilson being hurt - it's due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
I'm not "salty" because you want more Dawson and less Derrick. I don't even totally disagree with you. I'm "salty" because you call Derrick a piece of crap and ride him unmercifully. You attack him personally and openly root for him to fail. I think that's despicable.
Grow a pair. Quit going after kids who answer the bell when called. That's cowardly. Quit calling those of us out who don't accept your premise that you know more about this team than Buzz does. Save your vitriol for the real basketball idiot. The guy you think has turned a championship team into a .500 team. The guy who doesn't know this team or basketball as well as you. The guy who couldn't pass your Basketball 101 class. If there's someone you should hate on, it ain't Derrick. Or Jake. That's totally classless. Hate on the guy calling their number. Hate on Buzz.
As they say, "Excuses are for losers!" Unfortunately, that's all we hear right now are excuses. The bottom line is we are not winning, and we need a lineup that can win games. :o
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 26, 2014, 09:51:10 PM
I'm not "salty" because you want more Dawson and less Derrick. I don't even totally disagree with you. I'm "salty" because you call Derrick a piece of crap and ride him unmercifully. You attack him personally and openly root for him to fail. I think that's despicable.
Grow a pair. Quit going after kids who answer the bell when called. That's cowardly. Quit calling those of us out who don't accept your premise that you know more about this team than Buzz does. Save your vitriol for the real basketball idiot. The guy you think has turned a championship team into a .500 team. The guy who doesn't know this team or basketball as well as you. The guy who couldn't pass your Basketball 101 class. If there's someone you should hate on, it ain't Derrick. Or Jake. That's totally classless. Hate on the guy calling their number. Hate on Buzz.
Funny as I recall you posting about a month ago how things could get worse, a lot worse if Derrick weren't running the point - now you don't totally disagree that Dawson may be a more viable option?
And let's set the record straight - I don't attack Derrick the person, I criticize Derrick the player. I don't call him horsecrap, call his production horsecrap. Said numerous times he's a good kid...and can serve a good role on a high major team as a backup PG.
It's funny, Derrick had to tell Buzz in the Georgetown game to NOT put him back in the game because Dawson was playing well - speaks to Derrick's character - yet also speaks to Buzz's total blinders on with regard to this team. Ironically, its the first game Dawson gets 30 minutes in, and he plays his ass off in overtime, and we get our best win of the year. But next game at home, the kid's only worth 2, 4 minute stints? I've called Buzz out, and did in the post you quoted - said the failures are due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
I've called Buzz on being blindly loyal, and at this point stubborn for continuing to think he can coax wins out of a team that he himself has said is playing 4 on 5. I'm totally baffled and annoyed by Buzz's continued max minutes to Derrick and Jake - coming at the expense of Dawson and Todd Mayo.
We are 20 games in, and it aint working...I will guarantee if Derrick continues to average 27+ minutes per game from here on out, this team wont' sniff the NCAA tourney, and will struggle to finish 500 in conference play.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 11:36:50 PM
Funny as I recall you posting about a month ago how things could get worse, a lot worse if Derrick weren't running the point - now you don't totally disagree that Dawson may be a more viable option?
And let's set the record straight - I don't attack Derrick the person, I criticize Derrick the player. I don't call him horsecrap, call his production horsecrap. Said numerous times he's a good kid...and can serve a good role on a high major team as a backup PG.
It's funny, Derrick had to tell Buzz in the Georgetown game to NOT put him back in the game because Dawson was playing well - speaks to Derrick's character - yet also speaks to Buzz's total blinders on with regard to this team. Ironically, its the first game Dawson gets 30 minutes in, and he plays his ass off in overtime, and we get our best win of the year. But next game at home, the kid's only worth 2, 4 minute stints? I've called Buzz out, and did in the post you quoted - said the failures are due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
I've called Buzz on being blindly loyal, and at this point stubborn for continuing to think he can coax wins out of a team that he himself has said is playing 4 on 5. I'm totally baffled and annoyed by Buzz's continued max minutes to Derrick and Jake - coming at the expense of Dawson and Todd Mayo.
We are 20 games in, and it aint working...I will guarantee if Derrick continues to average 27+ minutes per game from here on out, this team wont' sniff the NCAA tourney, and will struggle to finish 500 in conference play.
we know this lol.. 11-9 for marquette is laughable... 11-10 after thursday...
Quote from: tower912 on January 26, 2014, 12:08:12 PM
It's moments like that with Dawson not hitting the floor, like JJJ throwing up that no-conscience, one-pass, early in the shot clock 3 20 seconds after checking into the game, like Deonte playing at both ends without conscience that explains why the frosh aren't getting more time.
You hit the floor, don't get the rebound, fast break insues, your out of position, two points for the other team. Hitting the floor is not always the answer. It's 50/50. Some rather say on their feet to hopefully be in position to play defense if lose ball is not hauled in.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 11:36:50 PM
Funny as I recall you posting about a month ago how things could get worse, a lot worse if Derrick weren't running the point - now you don't totally disagree that Dawson may be a more viable option?
And let's set the record straight - I don't attack Derrick the person, I criticize Derrick the player. I don't call him horsecrap, call his production horsecrap. Said numerous times he's a good kid...and can serve a good role on a high major team as a backup PG.
It's funny, Derrick had to tell Buzz in the Georgetown game to NOT put him back in the game because Dawson was playing well - speaks to Derrick's character - yet also speaks to Buzz's total blinders on with regard to this team. Ironically, its the first game Dawson gets 30 minutes in, and he plays his ass off in overtime, and we get our best win of the year. But next game at home, the kid's only worth 2, 4 minute stints? I've called Buzz out, and did in the post you quoted - said the failures are due to Buzz's worst coaching job and continued insistence to give max minutes to Derrick and Jake.
I've called Buzz on being blindly loyal, and at this point stubborn for continuing to think he can coax wins out of a team that he himself has said is playing 4 on 5. I'm totally baffled and annoyed by Buzz's continued max minutes to Derrick and Jake - coming at the expense of Dawson and Todd Mayo.
We are 20 games in, and it aint working...I will guarantee if Derrick continues to average 27+ minutes per game from here on out, this team wont' sniff the NCAA tourney, and will struggle to finish 500 in conference play.
So voice your concerns in an email to him. And let us know the response you get back.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 26, 2014, 03:33:32 PM
Yeah, I was unaware that Marquette had a basketball major...or a class in Basketball 101.
Does "Basketball Physics" count? I took that my junior year I think.
While the game was going on, I couldn't believe the number of second and third chances Nova got. To me, that was the ballgame.
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
Holy crap this is spot on. Is it the reason we've lost other games? Well, some of it applies to other games, but just looking at Villanova, this is 100% right.
So, again, people attacking Derrick or Jake for the offense in THIS game are mostly incorrect.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
This is, of course, dead on. Unfortunately, none of this was touched on in Ner's Basketball 101 course, which only covered points scored and the "eye test".
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
Thank you. That was excellent.
Quote from: Ners on January 26, 2014, 11:36:50 PM
It's funny, Derrick had to tell Buzz in the Georgetown game to NOT put him back in the game because Dawson was playing well - speaks to Derrick's character - yet also speaks to Buzz's total blinders on with regard to this team.
This is sooooo Ners. Taking pretty much an off handed comment by Buzz and extrapolating it into a negative that reinforces his bias. Reminds me of when he went ape-sh*t about a year ago when LW was talking about the potential conference options and added "Gonzaga model," and Ners went full out attack mode...but never took the time to actually read the quote in context.
Buzz doesn't have blinders on. He knows what he is doing. You just disagree with him.
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
Great post.
Also worth noting is that part of the reason DG had such a big game inside was because the D was committed to taking away Jake from the outside.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 27, 2014, 08:49:12 AM
Great post.
Also worth noting is that part of the reason DG had such a big game inside was because the D was committed to taking away Jake from the outside.
What is more disturbing was the last play of the game when Tony Chenault blew by Derrick like he was standing still.
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 27, 2014, 08:53:58 AM
What is more disturbing was the last play of the game when Tony Chenault blew by Derrick like he was standing still.
That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 27, 2014, 09:04:02 AM
That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.
Wilson played defense on that the exact right way, he forced him baseline to the help defense, which was STj. He had three things he could/should have done to help: 1. step out to stop the penetration and hope that the defense behind him had rotated to the weakside to prevent the dish 2. Step up a few feet to force Nova to either shot a low % runner or dish early 3. Stay where he is and go up for a shot block attempt to at least alter the shot lowering the %
STj chose secret option 4: Do nothing but put yourself in a bad position including take yourself out of taking a charge but get bailed out by a borderline horrendous charge call by the official that loves offensive fouls more than any other.
It was an impressive decision and one few make successfully ;D
Quote from: Lennys Tap on January 27, 2014, 08:30:15 AM
This is, of course, dead on. Unfortunately, none of this was touched on in Ner's Basketball 101 course, which only covered points scored and the "eye test".
Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test." Here's the results: 11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler. No wins over Top 50 teams.
Coaches pick to win the conference. Veteran team. Best post player in years. Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.
And FYI - just because we shoot 50% from the floor and lots of FT's - Thank you Davante Gardner on both stats FG% and FTA's - doesn't mean that your offense couldn't function better with a more talented player running the show at PG. Also, don't blame the guys on the bench for us getting our ass handed to us on rebounds - that's on the guys who played max minutes. And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position. (Basketball 101 concept.)
Quote from: CTWarrior on January 27, 2014, 07:42:57 AM
Derrick Wilson is constantly criticized for his poor offense, and rightly so. He is a non-threat, both as a scorer and a distributor. However, against Villanova, we shot 50% from the floor, got 31 FTs and had only 9 turnovers in 45 minutes, while he was running the point for most of that time. Our offense wasn't the problem. We had the advantage inside and we concentrated on that advantage with good results. I know many were upset that Jake didn't get more shots or that we didn't run plays for him, but other than the last few trips when we needed 3's to get back in the game, I never thought, "Gee, we should run a play for Thomas on this possession."
Our defense and defensive rebounding were atrocious. And while Derrick Wilson is not the lockdown defender he is purported to be, he is a good defender. (I don't think playing Dawson would have helped any on defense and probably would have just made matters worse). It was odd to me that Derrick was not guarding Arcidiacano when it mattered most, in OT. I'm guessing Buzz figured that Mayo had fresher legs at that point in the game. Bottom line, our guards were toasted on defense, Gardner is a crappy help defender and we didn't grab defensive boards. (Part of the reason Otule got no rebounds and Gardner got many is because Otule constantly abandons rebounding position to provide defensive help while Gardner does not. When the guards can't stop penetration, neither is a solid recipe for success.) That's why we lost.
Excellent post, CTWarrior. Spot on.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 27, 2014, 09:04:02 AM
That's a tough position to be in. Chennault did exactly what he should have done and what many players do not do in that situation - he headed straight to the basket. Five seconds can be a long time and no one on the defense wants to foul, so the offensive player has a huge advantage. If Derrick or anyone else had gotten a touch/reach-in foul 45 feet from the basket, that would be inexcusable.
Chennault also did basically the opposite of what Dunham (Butler) and Starks (GT) did.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:15:34 AM
Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test." Here's the results: 11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler. No wins over Top 50 teams.
Coaches pick to win the conference. Veteran team. Best post player in years. Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.
And FYI - just because we shoot 50% from the floor and lots of FT's - Thank you Davante Gardner on both stats FG% and FTA's - doesn't mean that your offense couldn't function better with a more talented player running the show at PG. Also, don't blame the guys on the bench for us getting our ass handed to us on rebounds - that's on the guys who played max minutes. And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position. (Basketball 101 concept.)
I can't speak for Lenny. But for me, I was a little annoyed at some of the posts you made after the Nova game because you were referencing some of the problems that had presented in previous games, but trying to apply them to Nova. Not that those previous problems aren't valid, but they just didn't apply to this particular loss.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:15:34 AM
Sorry - I'll no longer make mention of the "eye test." Here's the results: 11-9, two home losses, squeak out a win at home against Seton Hall, lose at Butler. No wins over Top 50 teams.
Coaches pick to win the conference. Veteran team. Best post player in years. Talented wings in Mayo and Jamil.
Veteran front line.
Preseason concensus was that PG was a big question. Derrick is what most everyone says he is, a 12 minute per game backup point guard. Problem is, there is nobody stepping up as a starting point. Dawson was not able to follow what could have been his breakout game. He committed multiple freshman mistakes against Nova. I want him to play as much as you Ners. His upside is high, but until he stops making freshman mistakes, he is not gonna earn it.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 27, 2014, 09:36:48 AM
I can't speak for Lenny. But for me, I was a little annoyed at some of the posts you made after the Nova game because you were referencing some of the problems that had presented in previous games, but trying to apply them to Nova. Not that those previous problems aren't valid, but they just didn't apply to this particular loss.
I understand the point you are trying to make Jesmu84 - I just don't feel Derrick's defense is so elite, that the benefits it brings exceed the benefits Dawson's more polished game bring to the team. I'd bet my left nut if Dawson got 36 minutes in that game, he'd have scored 12-15 points - and those points would have helped toward victory. Not to mention his offensive ability helps create space and better operating room for the other 4 guys on the team.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:15:34 AM
And yes, just FYI - part of why we had so many challenges getting boards on the defensive end, was because their PG abused ours and forced help repeatedly, which takes people out of rebounding position. (Basketball 101 concept.)
Ners, go back and watch the tape, especially in OT Mayo was on Nova's PG not Derrick. Not saying that's good or bad, nor am I disagreeing that was an issue with rebounding. Just pointing out this issue is valid, but not against Derrick since he wasn't even guarding him on the penetrate and dump action
Quote from: mu-rara on January 27, 2014, 09:44:58 AM
Veteran front line.
Preseason concensus was that PG was a big question. Derrick is what most everyone says he is, a 12 minute per game backup point guard. Problem is, there is nobody stepping up as a starting point. Dawson was not able to follow what could have been his breakout game. He committed multiple freshman mistakes against Nova. I want him to play as much as you Ners. His upside is high, but until he stops making freshman mistakes, he is not gonna earn it.
Agree - PG was a big question - and clearly hasn't passed the test. We don't know what Dawson would look like as a starter, because he's yet been given the chance. However, in the one game he got 30 minutes - he showed quite well, and had very few "freshman mistakes." I feel we have a junior PG who is still playing like a freshman, and also makes freshman mistakes...which I kind of feel is an overused metaphor anyway. Dawson missed two good runners in the lane from 5' - were on target - and he showed in G'town game he has a good 3-ball, a nice mid range pull up game, and also a nice clever drive and baby/hook floater.
Now if Dawson made those two floaters, and has at that point 7 points (combining them with the 3 he made), probably would have been really hard for Buzz to pull him. But...perhaps Dawson being that aggressive offensively was too much for Buzz...
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:48:27 AM
I understand the point you are trying to make Jesmu84 - I just don't feel Derrick's defense is so elite, that the benefits it brings exceed the benefits Dawson's more polished game bring to the team. I'd bet my left nut if Dawson got 36 minutes in that game, he'd have scored 12-15 points - and those points would have helped toward victory. Not to mention his offensive ability helps create space and better operating room for the other 4 guys on the team.
Simple question, was the offense the problem on Saturday? I don't believe it was so what Dawson would have increased in offense, probably would have hurt on the defensive end.
And again, I don't buy the more minutes the better he plays argument. He had several minutes run and was no worse or better than Derrick. Additionally in a game like that where Nova goes on runs and MU has to answer back I don't want to give a player time to get into the game. If that's what it takes, fine, but that wasn't the game for it. Lastly, Nova is a faster, more perimeter oriented team which negates some of the offensive difference between Dawson and Wilson.
Wilson wasn't awesome, I just don't think Dawson would have made any kind of difference.
Quote from: mu03eng on January 27, 2014, 09:48:57 AM
Ners, go back and watch the tape, especially in OT Mayo was on Nova's PG not Derrick. Not saying that's good or bad, nor am I disagreeing that was an issue with rebounding. Just pointing out this issue is valid, but not against Derrick since he wasn't even guarding him on the penetrate and dump action
Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it. Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall? I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.
My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems? I didn't have an issue with Derrick's defense on last play of the game, as that is terrible position to be in, because you absolutely cannot foul the kid rushing the ball upcourt. Would have been nice if we were able to get him turned once...but...you can't foul at any cost..
Quote from: mu03eng on January 27, 2014, 09:53:54 AM
Simple question, was the offense the problem on Saturday? I don't believe it was so what Dawson would have increased in offense, probably would have hurt on the defensive end.
And again, I don't buy the more minutes the better he plays argument. He had several minutes run and was no worse or better than Derrick. Additionally in a game like that where Nova goes on runs and MU has to answer back I don't want to give a player time to get into the game. If that's what it takes, fine, but that wasn't the game for it. Lastly, Nova is a faster, more perimeter oriented team which negates some of the offensive difference between Dawson and Wilson.
Wilson wasn't awesome, I just don't think Dawson would have made any kind of difference.
Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out. Several minutes of run is not enough. He needs 30 minutes. Just like Mayo - if you want to get their max potential/results.
Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game? If so, he probably would have in this game. G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.
Dawson should have gotten more. Simply to give Derrick more of a rest so he could save his energy defensively. 15 minutes would have been good.
But Ners your memory is wrong regarding Dawson in the game on Saturday. He had three stretches of play during the game - and was negative +/- in every single one of them.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/01/25/villanova-94-marquette-85/plus_minus
Guys everyone wants to argue about the rebounding and lets be perfectly clear and honest....THAT IS WHY WE LOST.
Now people want to then break it down about who got the rebounds and should we bench guys this and that.
Its really more simple than that. Villanova is more athletic than Marquette. Unfortunately most of the Big East teams we play are more athletic too. Would have only been worse in the old Big East. How did we get here? OMG??!!
Well we hade some really big transfers and defections and injuries that have killed our back court.
The argument was made that we were feeding the post and Jake therefore was not getting shots... true. However, he was also unable to get shots. Along the same line he was also too unathletic to get rebounds. Put Vander in that spot or even a TJ Taylor and Jake is getting the minutes he got in the second half of last year. I will make the same argument on Todd MAyo, he is not overly athletic. Quick first step but not overly, big, strong or athletic. Chris otule, and I love what thet kid has done, but he is essentially a terrible rebounder for his size. He cannot get to many balls and unfortunately drops or has many of them stipped when he does. Furthermore, devante is not a great rebounder. His will seems to waver and he is not overly athletic. He had 4 rebounds until late in the game and his rebounds got padded off of missed free throws and rebounding his misses. None of these 4 guys went and got those rebounds we are all discussing. Its no ones fault, guys left guys got hurt we are a little unathletic this year playing alot of should be back up type players. Future looks good, this year we simply suffer from a lack of talent
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:58:33 AM
Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game? If so, he probably would have in this game. G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.
Every game is different. Against Villanova, we were moving the ball and getting good shots, and good shots for Gardner, which is what we want against Villanova regardless of who the PG is.
The thing is, I agree with your larger point of increasing Dawson's minutes and significantly decreasing Derrick's, but to me Villanova wasn't a game that illustrated your point.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:58:33 AM
Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out. Several minutes of run is not enough. He needs 30 minutes. Just like Mayo - if you want to get their max potential/results.
Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game? If so, he probably would have in this game. G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.
GT vs. Nova - zone vs. man; different gameplan/offensive focus; etc. Tough to just straight line say if he was successful in one game then he absolutely would be successful in another.
Also, maybe in Buzz's mind he's playing risk management. He sees Dawson and Mayo has high risk/reward guys. He sees Jake/Derrick as more known commodities/consistency. His preference is toward the latter. It is what it is. No use shouting it from the mountaintops if the one person who has control over the situation isn't listening.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:58:33 AM
Pretty sure we fell behind early in the game, Dawson came in, and we got back in game from 6 point deficit to even, when he went out.
Another example of the "eye test" seeing what it wants to see and not what actually happened.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it. Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall? I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.
My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems? I didn't have an issue with Derrick's defense on last play of the game, as that is terrible position to be in, because you absolutely cannot foul the kid rushing the ball upcourt. Would have been nice if we were able to get him turned once...but...you can't foul at any cost..
I seem to recall at least a few possessions in the 2nd half where Derrick was guarding James Bell. Possibly Buzz put Derrick on the guy that totally torched Jamil and company with 15 in the 1st half? Or maybe he just ended up on him due to a switch? There are so many switches it's generally pretty hard to follow and I have no way of knowing.
Either way, I don't think Derrick is a good enough defender, particularly with the new rules emphasis, to stop all dribble penetration...nobody is. That's where help defense has to be there...and ours was generally lacking in this game.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
Really wish I could go back and watch game but didn't DVR it as I was at it. Was Derrick not guarding Ryan A during regulation most of the game - honestly don't recall? I just recall seeing Ryan A dribble circles around us forcing help and creating good looks and offensive rebounding chances for his team.
Wilson was on him until about 5 or 6 minutes left in the 2nd half when they started switching on screens and had Mayo more focused on him and Wilson was on Bell.
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:56:30 AM
My point is that if Derrick is your "Aaron Craft" good defender, why is he not locking up the player on the other team causing the problems?
This point is a very valid one that should be discussed around Buzz's coaching.
I'm ok with the discussion/argument on whether Derrick should have been on Arch the whole game, but you can't call out Derrick's defense because he was either guard Arch or Bell and had pretty good success against either. As you point out Arch was tearing them up late and Bell in the middle, who would Dawson guard and how would that have helped us?
Quote from: Ners on January 27, 2014, 09:58:33 AM
Did you feel Dawson made a difference in the G'Town game? If so, he probably would have in this game. G'Town is the only game Dawson got more than 17 minutes running the point all year...and the results were pretty good.
I do think Dawson made a difference in the Georgetown game, but that doesn't mean he would automatically make a difference in the Nova game.
Nova and G'town are two very different team constructions. G'town is front court heavy with guards who shoot but aren't necessarily awesome shooters or great penetrators (average athletically). Nova is very athletic, sometimes playing 4 guards, where their front line is relatively weak. G'town also favors a zone whereas I can't remember ever seeing Nova play a zone.
Dawson is an athletic, aggressive player that is a decent outside shooter but below average defense, perfect match up against G'town. Against Nova his strengths are relatively mitigated and his weaknesses are somewhat exposed. He could have had a few more minutes of run to rest Derrick but I don't think he needed much more than that.
I do think he should have played the last 3 minutes of OT when MUs defense went completely porous and they needed shooters, but that doesn't have much to do with the first 40 minutes of the game.
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 27, 2014, 10:03:43 AM
Dawson should have gotten more. Simply to give Derrick more of a rest so he could save his energy defensively. 15 minutes would have been good.
But Ners your memory is wrong regarding Dawson in the game on Saturday. He had three stretches of play during the game - and was negative +/- in every single one of them.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2014/01/25/villanova-94-marquette-85/plus_minus
Thanks for posting - never had seen this component of stat sheet - love it. Guess my memory was wrong.
Additionally, I love seeing the exact stints of run the chart you linked gives - Dawson had 2 stints of 3 minute runs, and then 2 stints of 1 minute runs - you simply cannot draw relevant conclusions from stints of run that short. For example, in the -4 run, Dawson played for exactly 1 minute 20 seconds. It's as easy to be -4 in just 3 possessions, the opposition scores twice and we have an empty possession in the middle. That type of thing happens frequently in games..and it is far to short of sample size to draw relevant conclusion.
For the 1000th time, we've seen 17 games of Derrick getting 27+ minutes per game..plenty of relevant sample size...and he hasn't shown any improvement all year...nor has the team. That's my biggest beef.